It is hard for me to see how this team will ever get to another SB with this regime

[RonWolfGOAT]

Ted Thompson:

Team building:

There are 3 avenues to build a team, Ted Thompson chooses to use only one of them. This means there is VERY small if not 0 margain for error in your drafting. That is because if a draft pick busts, you have no way to cover up for him short term. That is why picks like Perry, Jones, Worthy etc hurt so bad. No you can’t have an all pro at every position, but you can’t have any draft picks who bust either, if you choose to only build one route.

We don’t need to splurge in FA. Just look how New England does it. Short term, small contracts for vets who can start or spot start. More Julius Peppers types, less Matt O’Dwyer types.

I think when players around the league see things like Lynch, Gonzalez and Moss slip thru Ted’s hands, they laugh. Players used to want to play for Wolf/Favre/Holmgren. Not so much anymore.

This has been rehashed over and over, so I won’t go more into it. I think you guys get the point here.

He has also completely ignored certain positions. It took 3 years after Nick Collins got hurt to put any resources into finding a safety. In that time we drafted 1, in the 4th round.

Do you really think Bill B would have MD Jennings starting meaningful games? Don Barclay at tackle? How hard is it to sign a veteran there?

He also ignored the ILB position and continues to do so, to the point where our best pass rusher is playing out of position.

A quick note on the draft - please stop with the “lunchpail” guys like R Rodgers and Ripkowski (we already have a FB!!). More athletes please. Speedsters. Just take flyers on these guys. Instead TT will take some hard working undersized stiff like Barrington. As a result, our team looks like its running in cement, and it shows especially against teams like Arizona.

Finally, people say Capers defense is hard to learn, and to a lesser extent Mike’s offense. In that case, where are the vet signings who will learn the defense and offense faster than a rookie? There seems to be a disconnect between the GM’s philosphy and the systems the coaches run, in that regard.


Coaches:

How has he not fired Capers yet? He should have been gone after Kaepernick ran all over the defense. Now, assistants is probably MM’s call, but can’t TT say, “you fire Capers, or you’re gone too.” I don’t know much about the dynamic here as far as who is in charge, so that’s all I’ll say. That Capers and Slocum should have been fired long ago. (Hell,look how much better our special teams were this year with Zook).

Mike McCarthy:

Now, on to MM who I think is the bigger problem. I’m just going to make bullet points here in the interest of time:

-Routes - unimaginative, predictable, boring etc. I don’t think Cobb is a true #1, but do you have any doubt he’d catch 90 balls in New England’s or New Orleans’s offense?

-Refusal to play guys like Abby when Rodgers says he trusts him.

-His idea of a mismatches are our slowest players (Kuhn and Dickrod) in the slot/flat.

-0 halftime adjustsments

-kicking fgs in the NFCCG

-Consider that this is the first season w/o all pro talent all over the field at MM’s disposal and its the worst Packers offense in years

I will say I think he is a good motivator and decent playcaller. Bill Walsh said that after 10 years a team needs a head coaching change, simply because things get stayle. I don’t think MM is a “bad” coach, maybe an average to above average one who’s message and plays have gotten stale.

Conclusion:

We won 10 games vs bad teams and because our QB is out of this world good. All this said, I doubt anything will happen unless TT or MM or both step down. Mike Murphy is a yes man. Murphy and TT seem very high ceilcing, risk-averse guys who don’t like to shake things up. Even if we did get a new head coach, it would probably be someone else with Wisconsin ties who runs the West Coast Offense.


Would love to hear your thoughts.

[Joemailman]

It will take another year to figure out whether what happened to the offense this year is an anomaly or a trend. I would say that speed at the skills positions on offense has been neglected, and needs to be addressed. Seems like a strange time to be calling for the firing of Capers. The play of the defense has prevented 10-6 from being 6-10.

[Infamous]

AWESOME avatar bro

[mraynrand]

Rodgers didn't need to play all that much better for them to win that game Sunday. Nor a couple other games. He has not been out of this world good this year.

The future two years will depend a lot on whether Rodgers has peaked and whether some of these injuries are chronic and/or are a harbinger of decline (Bulaga slowing, Lang's shoulder, Sitton's back, Lacy's belly fat, etc. etc.

[Patler]

They will never get back to the Super Bowl?
They were within a fumbled onside kick of getting there last year.

I know, I know; you aren't there if you don't get there, and losing is losing, whether by a point or 30 points. But it is hard to say that the roster last year wasn't good enough to get to the SB.

It is easy to overreact to what has happened this year. The frustrating thing is that the defense has been reasonably good, certainly good enough to win a SB if the offense had been a typically performing MM offense. STs were much improved over what we have seen in recent years. Unfortunately, the offense was so much worse that the improved D and ST may go to waste.

[Striker]

Ron Wolf's Packers won exactly one Super Bowl.

GOAT.

[Harlan Huckleby]

tldr;

Please try to include more pictures in future posts. Or perhaps a poll.

[Striker]

People like the OP (with the shiny new account) must have been chomping at the bit for a season like this. The last few years must have been really miserable for them.

[RonWolfGOAT]

Ron Wolf's Packers won exactly one Super Bowl.

GOAT.


Thompson:

10 years
3 NFCCGs
1 SB win
1 SB appearance
7-6 playoff record

Wolf:

10 years
3 NFCCG
1 SB win
2 SB appearances
10-6 playoff record

[TravisWilliams23]

Let's not forget Vince here:

Lombardi:

10 years
5 NFL titles
2 SB wins
2 SB appearances
9-1 playoff record

[pbmax]

A self proclaimed fart in the wind.

[Patler]

Thompson:

10 years
3 NFCCGs
1 SB win
1 SB appearance
7-6 playoff record

Wolf:

10 years
3 NFCCG
1 SB win
2 SB appearances
10-6 playoff record

A difference without a distinction.

[Bretsky]

Solid post

I agree with most of what you note about TTT

You make some good points on MM but I don't agree with you on Dom. Why was the D so bad then ? See your notes on Ted Thompson

[Cheesehead Craig]

He has also completely ignored certain positions. It took 3 years after Nick Collins got hurt to put any resources into finding a safety. In that time we drafted 1, in the 4th round.

False. To nitpick, we had Safties after Collins was hurt during the 2011 season. Burnett and Woodson in 2012, no need at the time to spend a high draft pick. Burnett and Jennings/Richardson in 2013, ok Jennings and Richardson didn't work out. Ha-Ha was drafted in 2014, 1st round in response to that.

So he really only let one year go by of not really addressing the S position.

[RonWolfGOAT]

Solid post

I agree with most of what you note about TTT

You make some good points on MM but I don't agree with you on Dom. Why was the D so bad then ? See your notes on Ted Thompson

Thank you for the first legit reply to my thoughts.

[Striker]

Thompson:

10 years
3 NFCCGs
1 SB win
1 SB appearance
7-6 playoff record

Wolf:

10 years
3 NFCCG
1 SB win
2 SB appearances
10-6 playoff record

Well, I was talking in regards to GMs in general that Wolf was hardly GOAT worthy.

Though Travis Williams does show that he's not even the GOAT for the Packers.

He's a great GM. But GOAT is a stretch. Just like Brett. Definitely top tier, but not enough championships compared to some of the other greats out there.

Though Thompson's record isn't too shabby. Especially considering with how much fluctuation there is in the NFL right now. And when it comes down to it, Thompson's teams were a colossal QB fuck up and a series of improbable events away from two more SB berths. And, despite how bad/worn out you may think TT is - the Packers under his leadership have won the exact same number of championships as they have under Wolf.

[Striker]

Thank you for the first legit reply to my thoughts.

Well, there were others. They just weren't patting you on the back for it.

[Maxie the Taxi]

What the hell is a damn "GOAT?"

You youngsters ain't talkin' English anymore?

[Striker]

What the hell is a damn "GOAT?"

You youngsters ain't talkin' English anymore?

Greatest of all time.

[George Cumby]

Coldplay is the GOAT.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Greatest of all time. Oh, I get it. Thank you. Kind of like bad means good nowadays and phat means slim.

Did you guys know that Elvis is still alive?

[Patler]

Solid post

I agree with most of what you note about TTT

You make some good points on MM but I don't agree with you on Dom. Why was the D so bad then ? See your notes on Ted Thompson

Thank you for the first legit reply to my thoughts.


So a legit post is only one that agrees with you? Isn't that all Bretsky said in his reply, that he agreed with you? Not a knock on Bretsky, he is a solid poster here, but what did he really say in that particular reply? Nothing.

[Maxie the Taxi]

So a legit post is only one that agrees with you? Isn't that all Bretsky said in his reply, that he agreed with you? Not a knock on Bretsky, he is a solid poster here, but what did he really say in that particular reply? Nothing.In your post you literally said nothing.:-)

[Carolina_Packer]

What the hell is a damn "GOAT?"

You youngsters ain't talkin' English anymore?

Greatest Of All Time

[Patler]

It astounds me that after 11 years people still bring up Matt O'Dwyer, as if that was a great FA failure. That is exactly the type of signing you should want to see more of. It happened not to work, but that is a risk with any draft pick or FA signing. The Packers needed two guards, because Sherman had left the cupboard completely bare. TT signed a guy (O'Dwyer) who had 100+ starts in the NFL, hoping to get another year out of him. As I recall, he signed for next to nothing, but the Packers couldn't afford much as they had to release Sharper just to get under the salary cap. TT signed another, fairly expensive FA to play guard, drafted a guard and drafted another considered a C/G who ended up as a guard. O'Dwyer was virtually a no risk signing, with the possibility of being a one-year answer at guard. It didn't work, but so what?

Players don't want to play in GB now? Story is that Peppers drove up to GB and contacted no on else, just signed with GB. Williams, House, Jones wanted badly to stay. Daniels could have gone elsewhere, perhaps even for more $, but clearly wanted to stay.

The Packers have four starters who were signed as FAs. How is that ignoring the FA market?

In 2014, GB had the #1 scoring offense. Their QB was MVP and widely considered the best in the league. The had a RB with two years over a thousand yards and a solid backup, both with decent YPC averages. They had two WRs who set records as a combination and had rookie WRs drafted in the 2nd, 5th and 7th rounds, each possessing different traits. Their O-line was reasonably young and established at their positions. Yet, you seem to think MM and TT should have made wholesale changes last off season because of what happened this year. Really?

You can pick just about any position and make an argument that he should have invested more top picks in that position when a need existed. However, when the need exists, the supply might not be available. Instead, let's look at the distribution of draft picks in TT's 11 drafts:

1st& 2nd Rounds
QB - 2
RB - 2
WR - 5
TE - 0
T - 2
G -1
C - 0
DE - 3
DT - 2
LB - 3
CB - 4
S - 2

In the third rounds he has added a RB, 2 WR, 2 TE, a G/C, DE, LB and 2 S.

What position has he ignored?

In the 4th rounds he has drafted: RB, WR, 2 T, 2 G, C, DE, DT, 3 LB, 2 CB, 2 S. Except for QB and TE, he has covered every position in the fourth round alone.

He didn't plan for the departures of Collins or Finley. Both should be starting yet today.

While any year is relevant, a GM can really be judged only over time. I don't see any significant differences in the performances of Wolf and Thompson.

[beveaux1]

It astounds me that after 11 years people still bring up Matt O'Dwyer, as if that was a great FA failure. That is exactly the type of signing you should want to see more of. It happened not to work, but that is a risk with any draft pick or FA signing. The Packers needed two guards, because Sherman had left the cupboard completely bare. TT signed a guy (O'Dwyer) who had 100+ starts in the NFL, hoping to get another year out of him. As I recall, he signed for next to nothing, but the Packers couldn't afford much as they had to release Sharper just to get under the salary cap. TT signed another, fairly expensive FA to play guard, drafted a guard and drafted another considered a C/G who ended up as a guard. O'Dwyer was virtually a no risk signing, with the possibility of being a one-year answer at guard. It didn't work, but so what?

Players don't want to play in GB now? Story is that Peppers drove up to GB and contacted no on else, just signed with GB. Williams, House, Jones wanted badly to stay. Daniels could have gone elsewhere, perhaps even for more $, but clearly wanted to stay.

The Packers have four starters who were signed as FAs. How is that ignoring the FA market?

In 2014, GB had the #1 scoring offense. Their QB was MVP and widely considered the best in the league. The had a RB with two years over a thousand yards and a solid backup, both with decent YPC averages. They had two WRs who set records as a combination and had rookie WRs drafted in the 2nd, 5th and 7th rounds, each possessing different traits. Their O-line was reasonably young and established at their positions. Yet, you seem to think MM and TT should have made wholesale changes last off season because of what happened this year. Really?

You can pick just about any position and make an argument that he should have invested more top picks in that position when a need existed. However, when the need exists, the supply might not be available. Instead, let's look at the distribution of draft picks in TT's 11 drafts:

1st& 2nd Rounds
QB - 2
RB - 2
WR - 5
TE - 0
T - 2
G -1
C - 0
DE - 3
DT - 2
LB - 3
CB - 4
S - 2

In the third rounds he has added a RB, 2 WR, 2 TE, a G/C, DE, LB and 2 S.

What position has he ignored?

In the 4th rounds he has drafted: RB, WR, 2 T, 2 G, C, DE, DT, 3 LB, 2 CB, 2 S. Except for QB and TE, he has covered every position in the fourth round alone.

He didn't plan for the departures of Collins or Finley. Both should be starting yet today.

While any year is relevant, a GM can really be judged only over time. I don't see any significant differences in the performances of Wolf and Thompson.

Amen.

[beveaux1]

Now that is being Patlerized!!

[Striker]

It astounds me that after 11 years people still bring up Matt O'Dwyer, as if that was a great FA failure. That is exactly the type of signing you should want to see more of. It happened not to work, but that is a risk with any draft pick or FA signing. The Packers needed two guards, because Sherman had left the cupboard completely bare. TT signed a guy (O'Dwyer) who had 100+ starts in the NFL, hoping to get another year out of him. As I recall, he signed for next to nothing, but the Packers couldn't afford much as they had to release Sharper just to get under the salary cap. TT signed another, fairly expensive FA to play guard, drafted a guard and drafted another considered a C/G who ended up as a guard. O'Dwyer was virtually a no risk signing, with the possibility of being a one-year answer at guard. It didn't work, but so what?

Players don't want to play in GB now? Story is that Peppers drove up to GB and contacted no on else, just signed with GB. Williams, House, Jones wanted badly to stay. Daniels could have gone elsewhere, perhaps even for more $, but clearly wanted to stay.

The Packers have four starters who were signed as FAs. How is that ignoring the FA market?

In 2014, GB had the #1 scoring offense. Their QB was MVP and widely considered the best in the league. The had a RB with two years over a thousand yards and a solid backup, both with decent YPC averages. They had two WRs who set records as a combination and had rookie WRs drafted in the 2nd, 5th and 7th rounds, each possessing different traits. Their O-line was reasonably young and established at their positions. Yet, you seem to think MM and TT should have made wholesale changes last off season because of what happened this year. Really?

You can pick just about any position and make an argument that he should have invested more top picks in that position when a need existed. However, when the need exists, the supply might not be available. Instead, let's look at the distribution of draft picks in TT's 11 drafts:

1st& 2nd Rounds
QB - 2
RB - 2
WR - 5
TE - 0
T - 2
G -1
C - 0
DE - 3
DT - 2
LB - 3
CB - 4
S - 2

In the third rounds he has added a RB, 2 WR, 2 TE, a G/C, DE, LB and 2 S.

What position has he ignored?

In the 4th rounds he has drafted: RB, WR, 2 T, 2 G, C, DE, DT, 3 LB, 2 CB, 2 S. Except for QB and TE, he has covered every position in the fourth round alone.

He didn't plan for the departures of Collins or Finley. Both should be starting yet today.

While any year is relevant, a GM can really be judged only over time. I don't see any significant differences in the performances of Wolf and Thompson.

https://continuumissues.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/colbertmicgif.gif?w=604

[pbmax]

Was it Retail Guy who insisted that Thompson ignored the O line and loved to bring up O'Dwyer and Klemm?

Then (after Spitz and Colledge) it was that Thomspon should have invested more higher picks. After Sitton it was more and even higher picks and no one would find a top Guard or Tackle in Round 4. Bulaga might have ended it but I think Joe stole RG's soul by then in a dream sequence.

I get the desire for a FA splash, but these draft critiques usually are pretty weak and suffer from hindsight.

[dsilby]

Thompson:

10 years
3 NFCCGs
1 SB win
1 SB appearance
7-6 playoff record

Wolf:

10 years
3 NFCCG
1 SB win
2 SB appearances
10-6 playoff record

If the only real difference is that Ron had 1 more SB appearance.
How can last season be the fault of Ted? He put together a team that took the teams worst collapse and one of the worst collapses in NFL history in the final 3 mins to not make the Super Bowl.
Ted put together a Super Bowl caliber team last season, the collapse was not his fault.
Ron Wolf was fantastic, and should be applauded. But at the end of the day, it's about Super Bowls and Ron has 1.

[dsilby]

Damn, this Patler guy is good.

[Fritz]

Now that is being Patlerized!!

You're not official until you've been Patlerized.

[Freak Out]

Patler is an annoying old dog and someone better clean up after him!

[Cheesehead Craig]

Patler is an annoying old dog and someone better clean up after him!

You've made your obligatory post, now silence!

[Patler]

Patler is an annoying old dog and someone better clean up after him!

I was afraid you might suggest that the old dog should be put down!

[Bretsky]

You're not official until you've been Patlerized.

Happened to me many a times

But in response to Patler, who are the 4 starters on GB who were signed as Free Agents ? Obviously I know Peppers.

I also think it's a fair argument to try to make that free agents from other teams do not prioritize GB too highly. We don[t seem to land many that visit, and it seems like not many do. Maybe that's GM driven or maybe our GM just isn't throwing out numbers they want to even consider.....not sure on that...... I did not hear that of Peppers but that would not surprise me...to win and possibly do it against Da Bears.

When I think of successful Unrestricted FA signings by TT Woodson and Peppers come to mind. When I think of those two it makes me think we should try it more. I don't think of may others under TT although I know there are a few. Wait...Leroy the NG would be a 2nd. Maybe there are two more I'm not thinking of.

I also agree completely with Patler that GB should constantly be looking at guys like O'Dwyer. Hoodie Genius finds veteran one year plug ins all the time and they have helped him win several Super Bowls.

But that is not TT's mojo. He' draft and develop. It's not his thing to have a one year fill in vet, IMO, replacing a practice squad rookie type player who might develop some day.

And because TT, in general, very to the film watching while the other GM's watch film and dib into free agency, his room for error is far less on draft day.

Wist often noted how this strategy often ends up churning the bottom twenty percent of the roster every few years in hopes that one or two turn out to be players. But sometimes they do

[Patler]

But in response to Patler, who are the 4 starters on GB who were signed as Free Agents ? Obviously I know Peppers.



Peppers, Guion, Kuhn and James Jones

[ThunderDan]

I also agree completely with Patler that GB should constantly be looking at guys like O'Dwyer. Hoodie Genius finds veteran one year plug ins all the time and they have helped him win several Super Bowls.

But that is not TT's mojo. He' draft and develop. It's not his thing to have a one year fill in vet, IMO, replacing a practice squad rookie type player who might develop some day.

And because TT, in general, very to the film watching while the other GM's watch film and dib into free agency, his room for error is far less on draft day.

Wist often noted how this strategy often ends up churning the bottom twenty percent of the roster every few years in hopes that one or two turn out to be players. But sometimes they do

Let's all be honest here, prime time FA very, very, very rarely get to the market. With the current salary cap and the better management of teams the best players are almost always locked up before they get to FA.

The FA that teams are fighting for are for what I call "2nd tier" players. Guys who will start and play solid but they are not going to be your Superstars. The Reggie Whites of the world don't hit the FA market any more except on the back end of their career when they aren't producing to justify their salary.

A good example of this for this year seems to be Mario Williams. Former #1 pick making $19M that the Bills are probably going to have to dump. He will hit the market but what team is going to pony up the 8-12+M per year for him. It will be a risk that signing him and moving him back to a 3-4 team will rejuvenate his career. No team has $10M in salary cap money to just throw away.

[Maxie the Taxi]

New England does more than dabble with Free Agency.

New England starters this year who are "one year plug ins:"

WR Danny Amendola, 2013
WR Brandon LaFell, 2014
DE Rob Ninkovich, 2009
DT Alan Branch, 2015
S Patrick Chung, 2014

Plus,
RB LeGarrette Blount, 2014 (Injured)

New England also signed WR Keshawn Martin in September of this year and RB Steven Jackson in December of this year to plug holes. Moreover, several of their 2nd and 3rd stringers were acquired in trades or as unrestricted free agents.

Every Spring, despite their continued success and low draft position, Hoodie manages to wrangle a bunch of extra draft choices through trades and uses them well. His top draft choices invariably start and become solid pros.

So Hoodie does both -- uses the draft and Free Agency -- to build his teams, but is way more reliant on Free Agency to find everyday players and depth guys than TT.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Let's all be honest here, prime time FA very, very, very rarely get to the market. With the current salary cap and the better management of teams the best players are almost always locked up before they get to FA.

The FA that teams are fighting for are for what I call "2nd tier" players. Guys who will start and play solid but they are not going to be your Superstars. The Reggie Whites of the world don't hit the FA market any more except on the back end of their career when they aren't producing to justify their salary.

A good example of this for this year seems to be Mario Williams. Former #1 pick making $19M that the Bills are probably going to have to dump. He will hit the market but what team is going to pony up the 8-12+M per year for him. It will be a risk that signing him and moving him back to a 3-4 team will rejuvenate his career. No team has $10M in salary cap money to just throw away.

Jacksonville, Oakland and SF do. They are all going to be swimming in cap space this offseason. I'd expect one of them to make a big time push for Super Mario. Oak is rumored to be going to the 3-4 and they have defensive minded coach.

But I do see your point that big time FA don't hit the market in their prime very often, if at all.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Let's all be honest here, prime time FA very, very, very rarely get to the market. With the current salary cap and the better management of teams the best players are almost always locked up before they get to FA.

The FA that teams are fighting for are for what I call "2nd tier" players. Guys who will start and play solid but they are not going to be your Superstars. The Reggie Whites of the world don't hit the FA market any more except on the back end of their career when they aren't producing to justify their salary.

A good example of this for this year seems to be Mario Williams. Former #1 pick making $19M that the Bills are probably going to have to dump. He will hit the market but what team is going to pony up the 8-12+M per year for him. It will be a risk that signing him and moving him back to a 3-4 team will rejuvenate his career. No team has $10M in salary cap money to just throw away.

"Prime time FA's" is sort of a red herring. Nobody is wanting TT to sign another Reggie White...a Charles Woodson, maybe. I'm advocating signing 2nd Tier vets as a way of filling roster holes that now are filled on the Packers by raw rookies or untested undrafted free agents.

[Patler]

"Prime time FA's" is sort of a red herring. Nobody is wanting TT to sign another Reggie White...a Charles Woodson, maybe.

So just your run-of-the-mill, future hall of famer, capable of winning Player of the Year in GB and being named to All Pro and Pro Bowl teams. :)

[Maxie the Taxi]

So just your run-of-the-mill, future hall of famer, capable of winning Player of the Year in GB and being named to All Pro and Pro Bowl teams. :)Yup! ...But only if it doesn't break the bank. eh eh

[retailguy]

Was it Retail Guy who insisted that Thompson ignored the O line and loved to bring up O'Dwyer and Klemm?

Then (after Spitz and Colledge) it was that Thomspon should have invested more higher picks. After Sitton it was more and even higher picks and no one would find a top Guard or Tackle in Round 4. Bulaga might have ended it but I think Joe stole RG's soul by then in a dream sequence.

I get the desire for a FA splash, but these draft critiques usually are pretty weak and suffer from hindsight.

I really thought I was forever done posting here, then I read this. It took me 20 minutes to get my password reset, during which I pretty much calmed down, but here goes. Yes, I complained mightly about the offensive line - because it stunk.

But if you keep my comments in context, they were at a time when Allen Barbre was starting at right tackle, and he was a 7th round pick, and Daryn Colledge was a Left Guard and he was worse than the diet pepsi machine. I wanted, as you may recall, for him to be moved to left tackle, as he had some early success when Clifton was hurt. Then they finally moved him there and he resembled Lombardi's statute there, and I gave up and suggested that he be banished to managing a Dairy Queen in his home town...

Once Thompson finally dedicated some decent draft picks to the line, I did stop complaining. I'm still not happy with the line, but that has nothing to do with Thompson and everything to do with the fact that they either can't protect the quarterback until game 8, or, they are always hurt (Bulaga...).

Back into hiding now. Carry on.

[Patler]

I really thought I was forever done posting here, then I read this. It took me 20 minutes to get my password reset, during which I pretty much calmed down, but here goes. Yes, I complained mightly about the offensive line - because it stunk.

But if you keep my comments in context, they were at a time when Allen Barbre was starting at right tackle, and he was a 7th round pick, and Daryn Colledge was a Left Guard and he was worse than the diet pepsi machine. I wanted, as you may recall, for him to be moved to left tackle, as he had some early success when Clifton was hurt. Then they finally moved him there and he resembled Lombardi's statute there, and I gave up and suggested that he be banished to managing a Dairy Queen in his home town...

Once Thompson finally dedicated some decent draft picks to the line, I did stop complaining. I'm still not happy with the line, but that has nothing to do with Thompson and everything to do with the fact that they either can't protect the quarterback until game 8, or, they are always hurt (Bulaga...).

Back into hiding now. Carry on.

Welcome back!

By the way, Barbre was a 4th round pick, not a 7th!

Colledge was a 2nd, Spitz a 3rd and Barbre was actually a higher pick than Sitton (#119 vs #135). Lang was higher than either Barbre or Sitton, but still a 4th. TT didn't invest higher picks in the OL until Bulaga, then Sherrod.

Middle rounds seem to be his strength for OL. Sitton, Lang, Bakhtiari and Tretter all 4th rounders. Linsley a 5th.

[Smidgeon]

I really thought I was forever done posting here, [snip]

Back into hiding now. Carry on.

No! Don't go!

[woodbuck27]

Would love to hear your thoughts.

Hello RonWolfGOAT........Welcome to Packerrats and thanks for expressing a strong view.

I agree that we're in deep trouble and Leadership......The GM and HC etc. leave much to be desired. It gets a bit this way at the end of most seasons before /after the last Super Bowl Victory but this time the scream of I'm falling and HELP !! and GREEN BAY PACKERS is LOUD !!

Your post omitted any view on the Packers Scout Team.

I personally don't think highly of the Green Bay Packer Scout Team ( Given how many drafted busts we see). Ted Thompson cannot be everywhere and he has to hold all members of that team to a high level of results and integrity.

Your thread and the content....focus..is rather Tankesque in style. I sure hope/TRUST your REAL and uniquely your own person.

In other words......YOUR anyone..... NOT TANK !

Some background:

Going way back to what 2006 !?

Tank and I shared the fact....we wern't pissing our pants HOLDING for Ted Thompson as some genius; when in fact he acted overall like part of the cast of walkers in 'The Walking Dead'.

TANK .....an infamous former member.....in my rear view mirror.....had penchant for self destruction:

He came he saw ...he expressed himself. He did his thing and as he was judged.... he did bad things according to some who RULED with a more powerful status and thus support here. I saw TANK as rather charming compared to some posters past and present.....who's sole motivation and participation here: was/is to shit all over themselves and the privilege of Packerrats. You may have run into the sort.....Such are easily identified with their ignorance, lousy manners and when you do some minor analysis of their posting personality...very low self esteem.

You may learn of what I'm posting here in short order. Your thread in the past would draw the most extreme ire of the POWER GROUP that was ' all in ' and TT & MM and Co. They came at/onto you if you criticized TT and /or MM in numbers....like 'ants to sugar' that bunch were all over you ...nasty whips a stinging. Good grief...what we're they standing in for Vs another's view / needs as the Packer fan.

It's really just a joke to me now.

These days....the charge is 'pop gun' compared to when several here had a mob mentality and attacked with teeth and snarls .... think ....piranha. They may end up A-OK.

I pray for them. :-)

Again Congratulations on your thread and I TRUST the response to it will be a reward for us all.

Enjoy Packerrats RonWolfGOAT.

[woodbuck27]

I really thought I was forever done posting here, then I read this. It took me 20 minutes to get my password reset, during which I pretty much calmed down, but here goes. Yes, I complained mightly about the offensive line - because it stunk.

But if you keep my comments in context, they were at a time when Allen Barbre was starting at right tackle, and he was a 7th round pick, and Daryn Colledge was a Left Guard and he was worse than the diet pepsi machine. I wanted, as you may recall, for him to be moved to left tackle, as he had some early success when Clifton was hurt. Then they finally moved him there and he resembled Lombardi's statute there, and I gave up and suggested that he be banished to managing a Dairy Queen in his home town...

Once Thompson finally dedicated some decent draft picks to the line, I did stop complaining. I'm still not happy with the line, but that has nothing to do with Thompson and everything to do with the fact that they either can't protect the quarterback until game 8, or, they are always hurt (Bulaga...).

Back into hiding now. Carry on.

Hey my Good Packerrat Bud...HELLO and I TRUST that all is great with you man.

Peace Out !

My name is Ed. woodbuck27

[woodbuck27]

Let's not forget Vince here:

Lombardi:

10 years
5 NFL titles
2 SB wins
2 SB appearances
9-1 playoff record

No wonder I'm so spoiled. :pack:

[mraynrand]

Dude, how are ya? That's some serious lurking there, to wait - what, 5 years - but still capture conversation about yourself? I didn't think packerrats had an RSS-like feed. :)

Stick around, the conversation here is pretty good.

[woodbuck27]

Dude, how are ya? That's some serious lurking there, to wait - what, 5 years - but still capture conversation about yourself? I didn't think packerrats had an RSS-like feed. :)

Stick around, the conversation here is pretty good.

WOW ! A New Year's Resolution ?

You seem normal/decent.

I've seen this feint before...... many times.

https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ1Hm1UdELrUAx447yhSl28qliIE2Fzl vczVnze1soRw7nhdkV2pA

Retailguy....I enjoyed that member.

[Bossman641]

A RetailGuy sighting....what year is this? Stick around RG

[pbmax]

I really thought I was forever done posting here, then I read this. It took me 20 minutes to get my password reset, during which I pretty much calmed down, but here goes. Yes, I complained mightly about the offensive line - because it stunk.

But if you keep my comments in context, they were at a time when Allen Barbre was starting at right tackle, and he was a 7th round pick, and Daryn Colledge was a Left Guard and he was worse than the diet pepsi machine. I wanted, as you may recall, for him to be moved to left tackle, as he had some early success when Clifton was hurt. Then they finally moved him there and he resembled Lombardi's statute there, and I gave up and suggested that he be banished to managing a Dairy Queen in his home town...

Once Thompson finally dedicated some decent draft picks to the line, I did stop complaining. I'm still not happy with the line, but that has nothing to do with Thompson and everything to do with the fact that they either can't protect the quarterback until game 8, or, they are always hurt (Bulaga...).

Back into hiding now. Carry on.

There was too much history and too much forgetting to get that short summary entirely in context; glad you came back to give your side.

It was a mess, but O line is one position, like ILB now, that the Packers can't hit like they do on WR or cornerbacks. Or quarterbacks.

[pbmax]

Wait, if RG was lurking, does that mean that every other tired or pissed off former poster is among the 75 people lurking every day?

I thought they all were Google Bots.

[Bretsky]

Peppers, Guion, Kuhn and James Jones


OK; makes sense. I was separating them from unrestricted free agents that were actually signed during the free market free agency period because they were sought after versus a guy like James Jones who got his ass cut. I'm not sure I consider Kuhn or Jones starters.

I can't even remember how we signed Kuhn. Was he a real free agent signing or a guy like Jones who could not make another team so we took a flyer on him ?

[Bretsky]

Let's all be honest here, prime time FA very, very, very rarely get to the market. With the current salary cap and the better management of teams the best players are almost always locked up before they get to FA.

The FA that teams are fighting for are for what I call "2nd tier" players. Guys who will start and play solid but they are not going to be your Superstars. The Reggie Whites of the world don't hit the FA market any more except on the back end of their career when they aren't producing to justify their salary.

A good example of this for this year seems to be Mario Williams. Former #1 pick making $19M that the Bills are probably going to have to dump. He will hit the market but what team is going to pony up the 8-12+M per year for him. It will be a risk that signing him and moving him back to a 3-4 team will rejuvenate his career. No team has $10M in salary cap money to just throw away.


Pretty much agree with this; and I rarely would be a fan of getting a top tier guy. But there are Captain obvious years to go get a free agent....aka.....Tight End last year. How would Delanie Walker, Charles CLay, or Jordan Cameron looked in Green n Gold ?

[pbmax]

OK; makes sense. I was separating them from unrestricted free agents that were actually signed during the free market free agency period because they were sought after versus a guy like James Jones who got his ass cut. I'm not sure I consider Kuhn or Jones starters.

I can't even remember how we signed Kuhn. Was he a real free agent signing or a guy like Jones who could not make another team so we took a flyer on him ?

Got him after his second go around with the Steelers. Street free agent.

[Bretsky]

Got him after his second go around with the Steelers. Street free agent.

so his ass was cut and we claimed him or just James Jones'd him ? Those should not count ! :)

[Patler]

so his ass was cut and we claimed him or just James Jones'd him ? Those should not count ! :)

Julius Peppers was cut too. He wasn't a free agent because of an expired contract. So he doesn't count either? What's the difference how the player becomes available? A free agent is a free agent.

[Bretsky]

Julius Peppers was cut too. He wasn't a free agent because of an expired contract. So he doesn't count either? What's the difference how the player becomes available? A free agent is a free agent.

Peppers was cut due to salary cap and we signed ahead of the season starting; Jones seems more like a waiver wire claim than a unrestricted free agent. I don't know how to categorize Kuhn cause I don't remember .

I know they are all free agents so by definition you are right.

But my whineage has to do with the GB's typical hibernation specifically during the URFA signing period when teams are competing or sought after players who are going to make a roster as opposed to signing them who we claim after they get cut during the preseason.

[3irty1]

Peppers was cut due to salary cap and we signed ahead of the season starting; Jones seems more like a waiver wire claim than a unrestricted free agent. I don't know how to categorize Kuhn cause I don't remember .

I know they are all free agents so by definition you are right.

But my whineage has to do with the GB's typical hibernation specifically during the URFA signing period when teams are competing or sought after players who are going to make a roster as opposed to signing them who we claim after they get cut during the preseason.

This seems like an odd year to whine about big ticket FA's when nearly every one that changed hands last year made both teams worse.

[Patler]

Peppers was cut due to salary cap and we signed ahead of the season starting; Jones seems more like a waiver wire claim than a unrestricted free agent. I don't know how to categorize Kuhn cause I don't remember .

I know they are all free agents so by definition you are right.

But my whineage has to do with the GB's typical hibernation specifically during the URFA signing period when teams are competing or sought after players who are going to make a roster as opposed to signing them who we claim after they get cut during the preseason.

Jones was not subject to waivers, he was a free agent, able to negotiate and sign with any team he wanted to, the same as when he was released by Oakland, the same as when his contract expired and he signed with Oakland in 2014. There is no doubt he was a free agent by any definition in 2014. He put up 73 receptions in his only season there.

Jones had the highest cap number among receivers at Oakland, and it was widely reported that with the number of younger receivers they suddenly had, saving Jones' cap cost became important to them. Their decision to release him was probably as much of a cap/value decision as Peppers was in Chicago, its just that the $ and value components were higher for Peppers than Jones.

Who the heck knows what the Giants were thinking? Jones lead Oakland in receptions in 2014. He lead the Packers in receiving yards this year. But the Giants couldn't find room for him with a contract that was reported to be at the veteran minimum, and after he lead them in both receptions and yards in preseason.

[pbmax]

^And Victor Cruz could not find the field in 2015.

[Bretsky]

This seems like an odd year to whine about big ticket FA's when nearly every one that changed hands last year made both teams worse.


I'm not sure what a big ticket free agent is defined as; but last year was the year to get a TE

[Bretsky]

I really thought I was forever done posting here, then I read this. It took me 20 minutes to get my password reset, during which I pretty much calmed down, but here goes. Yes, I complained mightly about the offensive line - because it stunk.

But if you keep my comments in context, they were at a time when Allen Barbre was starting at right tackle, and he was a 7th round pick, and Daryn Colledge was a Left Guard and he was worse than the diet pepsi machine. I wanted, as you may recall, for him to be moved to left tackle, as he had some early success when Clifton was hurt. Then they finally moved him there and he resembled Lombardi's statute there, and I gave up and suggested that he be banished to managing a Dairy Queen in his home town...

Once Thompson finally dedicated some decent draft picks to the line, I did stop complaining. I'm still not happy with the line, but that has nothing to do with Thompson and everything to do with the fact that they either can't protect the quarterback until game 8, or, they are always hurt (Bulaga...).

Back into hiding now. Carry on.


WELCOME BACK !!!!!

[Bretsky]

Wait, if RG was lurking, does that mean that every other tired or pissed off former poster is among the 75 people lurking every day?

I thought they all were Google Bots.


Wonder where Favrechild is ? She was a feisty one. My guess is she's a bikini model somewhere or working at Hooters of America :)))) Maybe she'll come out of lurking to yell at me

[Bretsky]

Wait, if RG was lurking, does that mean that every other tired or pissed off former poster is among the 75 people lurking every day?

I thought they all were Google Bots.


THIS COULD BE A GREAT STRATEGY; POST something to get the blood pressure to rise from former posters and get them upset enough to come back.

DEAR LURKER

Your Drift analysis was inferior to that of Bretsky's. Where is your guy Donte Moch now ? (not even sure he's on a team). My guess is he's working with Torrence Marshall.
Brooks Reed turned out to be a much better player.

PLEASE RESPOND SOON AND COME BACK


Sincerely,
Bretsky

[woodbuck27]

THIS COULD BE A GREAT STRATEGY; POST something to get the blood pressure to rise from former posters and get them upset enough to come back.

DEAR LURKER

Your Drift analysis was inferior to that of Bretsky's. Where is your guy Donte Moch now ? (not even sure he's on a team). My guess is he's working with Torrence Marshall.
Brooks Reed turned out to be a much better player.

PLEASE RESPOND SOON AND COME BACK


Sincerely,
Bretsky

:-)

[woodbuck27]

Wonder where Favrechild is ? She was a feisty one. My guess is she's a bikini model somewhere or working at Hooters of America :)))) Maybe she'll come out of lurking to yell at me

Here name here gives a hint as to what she might have felt as a member of Packerrats and the Tom Foolery that was such puss on this forum generated and endorced by a certain clique of posters here. They've mostly disappeared rather than eat crow. The consequence of their domination was severe/heavy.

An overall loss of a solid membership. People that through their consistent positive input and need to see the same here in terms of common sense simply gave up. We all paid a price for the nonsense.

Some of us are the TRUE survivors and will be greatly rewarded when Brett Favre enters the NFL HOF with distinction.

Those others here it is:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_go0QYOkH4xU/S_dQYfl9o9I/AAAAAAAAHaI/rpmfpbKKS6o/s400/eating_crow.jpg



Too much silly ant-Favre BS here at the time.

Some sensible Packer fans simply had enough of the mockery of 'loyalty' and a great Packer QB who gave and gave ...who always just gave of himself and was all for the team.

[woodbuck27]

https://continuumissues.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/colbertmicgif.gif?w=604


Outstanding post Patler (Did you have that on file?) and TT and recent Green Bay Packer history and the Draft analysis in the TT regime.

The TRUTH is this........... time ........... Patler:

TIME.....marches on and the mantra's always the same:

Just WIN !

Be truly ready to compete for a Super Bowl.

Then TT and his team gets a Green Light.

It's certainly on TT's plate to get to the bottom of all the rumors and issues on the team at present before the Packers get completely off the tracks. We may argue here till the cows are in the barn and TT and Draft genius or not.

I've got a position I cannot let go of because events support the facts as I see them.

TT as too slow or NOT as Pro Active at upgrading the Packers and/or jump on an opportunity as I feel as a fan that he should be. He's not able (the real; word is capable of getting his HC) to do what must be obviously done. ie Get rid of a ST's coach (Slocum) that was useless. Too long as fans we put up with that buddy up system that was an obvious detriment to the Packers.

I'm still on the fence and Dom Capers. I watched the Vikings @ Packers NFCN Championship game (recorded) two more times. Dom Capers 'D' wasn't disastrous.

The issue on the Packers is what's wrong with Aaron Rodgers and throwing mechanics and faster decision making (See WR routes below). His on field demeanor I hold questionable. He and attitude...that was better Vs the Vikings and seemed positive...prepared mentally and emotionally to win the game. His eyes looked right in terms of attitude. He looked positive...ready. You see a ton observing a person's face.

Why are the RB running straight ahead into a DL that means little yardage? Is that on the OL?

What's up with lousy WR and TE routes. Routes are designed to get the receiver open for a pass. In that last game I saw poor route running. One time 3 WR's went to the RHS of the end zone as if it was a hail Mary play. Spread out the routes...don't put all your eggs in one basket.

All that stuff above and more lots more TT has to have the absolute BEST answer to and in accordance with that ensure the best case action for the ultimate best results.

To do that TT has to be hands on; have his head into the pulse of the team. Is that TT in your view Patler.

Ted Thompson is less available (visable to the fans) it seems (always seemed) to me than the Invisible Man.

[Pugger]

It astounds me that after 11 years people still bring up Matt O'Dwyer, as if that was a great FA failure. That is exactly the type of signing you should want to see more of. It happened not to work, but that is a risk with any draft pick or FA signing. The Packers needed two guards, because Sherman had left the cupboard completely bare. TT signed a guy (O'Dwyer) who had 100+ starts in the NFL, hoping to get another year out of him. As I recall, he signed for next to nothing, but the Packers couldn't afford much as they had to release Sharper just to get under the salary cap. TT signed another, fairly expensive FA to play guard, drafted a guard and drafted another considered a C/G who ended up as a guard. O'Dwyer was virtually a no risk signing, with the possibility of being a one-year answer at guard. It didn't work, but so what?

Players don't want to play in GB now? Story is that Peppers drove up to GB and contacted no on else, just signed with GB. Williams, House, Jones wanted badly to stay. Daniels could have gone elsewhere, perhaps even for more $, but clearly wanted to stay.

The Packers have four starters who were signed as FAs. How is that ignoring the FA market?

In 2014, GB had the #1 scoring offense. Their QB was MVP and widely considered the best in the league. The had a RB with two years over a thousand yards and a solid backup, both with decent YPC averages. They had two WRs who set records as a combination and had rookie WRs drafted in the 2nd, 5th and 7th rounds, each possessing different traits. Their O-line was reasonably young and established at their positions. Yet, you seem to think MM and TT should have made wholesale changes last off season because of what happened this year. Really?

You can pick just about any position and make an argument that he should have invested more top picks in that position when a need existed. However, when the need exists, the supply might not be available. Instead, let's look at the distribution of draft picks in TT's 11 drafts:

1st& 2nd Rounds
QB - 2
RB - 2
WR - 5
TE - 0
T - 2
G -1
C - 0
DE - 3
DT - 2
LB - 3
CB - 4
S - 2

In the third rounds he has added a RB, 2 WR, 2 TE, a G/C, DE, LB and 2 S.

What position has he ignored?

In the 4th rounds he has drafted: RB, WR, 2 T, 2 G, C, DE, DT, 3 LB, 2 CB, 2 S. Except for QB and TE, he has covered every position in the fourth round alone.

He didn't plan for the departures of Collins or Finley. Both should be starting yet today.

While any year is relevant, a GM can really be judged only over time. I don't see any significant differences in the performances of Wolf and Thompson.

:clap:

There have been threads like this on every forum I post on since the last game and IMO these are massive over-reactions to an off year offensively. Hell, we are in the playoffs with an opportunity to right the ship and make some noise. I suspect a lot of this angst is because we all had high expectations last summer. It is puzzling to see Aaron play like an average QB instead of his otherworldly self. If we can shore up just a couple of positions this offseason we'll be back in the hunt again in 2016 and in a stronger position than we are this year.