More Banjo: Division Playoffs @ Cardinals [Archive]

pbmax

01-16-2016, 11:45 PM

RODGERS

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 30m30 minutes ago
Rodgers: You put so much into it. There was so much hope & belief right until the last tick on the clock. Pretty disappointing. #GBvsAZ

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 29m29 minutes ago
Rodgers on WR injuries this season: That's the way it is...I'm proud of the guys who played today. We lost Randall, hope he's all right.

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 32m32 minutes ago
Rodgers: I'm just really proud of these guys. I love being a Packer. This is tough when the season ends abruptly like this. #GBvsAZ

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 34m34 minutes ago
Rodgers on #Packers WRs: I'm so proud of those guys. I love James Jones like a brother. He's had a great season. #GBvsAZ

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 35m35 minutes ago
Rodgers on Hail Mary TD: We made a little bit of an adjustment...Spin out to the left, put some air on it & give it a chance. #GBvsAZ

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 39m39 minutes ago
Rodgers on #GBvsAZ: It's a high on that last play of the game & then a low on the coin toss. #GBvsAZ

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 39m39 minutes ago
Rodgers: It's tough. We've lost a few of these over the years where you don't touch the ball in OT. #GBvsAZ

mraynrand

01-16-2016, 11:45 PM

If only Stubby's mouth were as tight as his ass, he wouldn't be 200 pounds overweight. Spineless fucker.

pbmax

01-16-2016, 11:47 PM

pbmax

01-16-2016, 11:49 PM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CY5bNPvWUAAlKZr.png:large

pbmax

01-16-2016, 11:51 PM

MCCARTHY

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 48m48 minutes ago
McCarthy: We clearly expected to beat Arizona. We just didn't make enough plays to get it done. #GBvsAZ

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 49m49 minutes ago
McCarthy on Jeff Janis: "Made huge, huge plays tonight." #GBvsAZ

Football Perspective ‏@fbgchase 49m49 minutes ago
3 of the top 5 "athletes" based on this formula from 2014 combine were Aaron Donald, Khalil Mack, and *Jeff Janis* http://www.footballperspective.com/pittsburghs-aaron-donald-was-your-combine-mvp/ …

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 49m49 minutes ago
McCarthy on Abbrederis & Janis: Very proud of those young men. They worked their tails off all year to get an opportunity. #GBvsAZ

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 50m50 minutes ago
McCarthy on Hail Mary TD: Tremendous football play. It's a great reflection of our football team. #GBvsAZ

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 46m46 minutes ago
#Packers coach Mike McCarthy on Fitzgerald catch/replay challenge: "I don't know what the hell is a catch anymore. It's ridiculous."

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 54m54 minutes ago
McCarthy: We had a lot of opportunities. Our guys fought right til the end. #GBvsAZ

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 56m56 minutes ago
McCarthy: Heartbreaking loss tonight. Congratulations to Arizona for moving on. #GBvsAZ

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 57m57 minutes ago
McCarthy gets to podium and lets out heavy sigh. Heartbreaking loss here this evening. ... It's tough to swallow."

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 56m56 minutes ago
McCarthy: "I think the game tonight was pretty much a microcosm of our season -- adversity time after time."

mraynrand

01-16-2016, 11:53 PM

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 46m46 minutes ago
#Packers coach Mike McCarthy on Fitzgerald catch/replay challenge: "I don't know what the hell is a catch anymore. It's ridiculous."

IT was pretty close to 88's non-catch last year

pbmax

01-16-2016, 11:55 PM

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/My_favorite_Vine_ever..gif

pbmax

01-17-2016, 12:15 AM

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CY5mqbAWEAALHeg.jpg:large

pbmax

01-17-2016, 12:16 AM

Weston Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 21m21 minutes ago
Image I'll have burned in my head from locker room is Julius Peppers, slunk into his locker and still in uniform, staring and emotionless

mraynrand

01-17-2016, 12:19 AM

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 12m12 minutes ago
McCarthy asked about two point conversion: "My balls were drawn up high into my body, I couldn't risk that call"

King Friday

01-17-2016, 12:33 AM

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 12m12 minutes ago
McCarthy asked about two point conversion: "My balls were drawn up high into my body, I couldn't risk that call"

What? Did McCarthy actually call himself (somewhat) nutless?

esoxx

01-17-2016, 12:48 AM

^^^ He didn't have to, it speaks for itself.

channtheman

01-17-2016, 01:24 AM

Janis had his defenders beat on each of the hail mary's and throughout the game, Rodgers under threw all game.

Deputy Nutz

01-17-2016, 01:34 AM

Weston Hodkiewicz ‏@WesHod 21m21 minutes ago
Image I'll have burned in my head from locker room is Julius Peppers, slunk into his locker and still in uniform, staring and emotionless

He is a proud man and he knows he fucked up in overtime leaving his zone to chase Palmer. He payed no attention to one of the greatest receivers in the history of the NFL. Know he didn't miss all 5 tackles on Fitzgerald's 75 yard jaunt down the field.

Freak Out

01-17-2016, 02:49 AM

pbmax

01-17-2016, 09:25 AM

He is a proud man and he knows he fucked up in overtime leaving his zone to chase Palmer. He payed no attention to one of the greatest receivers in the history of the NFL. Know he didn't miss all 5 tackles on Fitzgerald's 75 yard jaunt down the field.

Yeah, that is the problem with guys who can do it all. You still have to known when to improvise.

pbmax

01-17-2016, 09:33 AM

https://vimeo.com/152066694

red

01-17-2016, 09:43 AM

pbmax

01-17-2016, 09:46 AM

Football Perspective ‏@fbgchase 25m25 minutes ago
'Jeff Janis, and Outlier 100-Yard Receiving Games In The Playoffs' - http://www.footballperspective.com/jeff-janis-and-outlier-100-yard-receiving-games-in-the-playoffs/ …

ESPN Stats & Info ‏@ESPNStatsInfo 11h11 hours ago
Aaron Rodgers' pass to Jeff Janis was the 1st game-tying or game-winning Pass TD to end regulation in NFL postseason history. @EliasSports

denverYooper

01-17-2016, 09:50 AM

#NOTCLUTCH

denverYooper

01-17-2016, 09:52 AM

pbmax

01-17-2016, 10:55 AM

I am not sure I noticed this early:

Minus Adams, the Packers shifted Cobb from the slot to the perimeter and replaced him with Abbrederis, the former Wisconsin star. With a quick burst off the line of scrimmage and routes that can be described as pristine, Abbrederis offered Rodgers a target on crossing routes and scramble plays born of the quarterback's mobility

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-receivers-abbrederis-janis-earn-jones-praise-b99651628z1-365567511.html

pbmax

01-17-2016, 11:19 AM

Scott Kacsmar ‏@FO_ScottKacsmar 8m8 minutes ago
Record in games with 4QC/GWD opportunity
Bruce Arians 19-8 (.704)
Mike McCarthy 22-45-1 (.331)

pbmax

01-17-2016, 11:22 AM

Kevin Seifert
NFL Nation

The NFL confirmed this morning that its rules do not require a coin to actually flip during the coin toss. But it said referee Clete Blakeman made a judgment call out of fairness Saturday night in overtime at University of Phoenix Stadium. The league's statement: "There is nothing in the rule book that specifies this. But the referee used his judgment to determine that basic fairness dictated that the coin should flip for the toss to be valid. That is why he re-tossed the coin."

http://espn.go.com/espn/now?nowId=21-0480416733283225848-4

pbmax

01-17-2016, 11:23 AM

He agrees with Rand and Maxie:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/14586612/an-aggressive-bruce-arians-got-win-mike-mccarthy-learn-nfl

If the Packers do go to overtime, they're going to be underdogs. The Cardinals were seven-point favorites heading into the contest; after taking out the vig, the implied odds from the Vegas money line suggested that the Packers had a 26 percent chance of winning the game. Green Bay had certainly played better than they had during Arizona's regular-season blowout in the previous matchup, but they had lost Randall Cobb and needed two Hail Mary completions to tie the game.

It's almost always better for the underdog to try to turn the game into a shorter contest. Taken to an extreme, if you're playing Steph Curry one-on-one and you start with the ball, it's better to play to one than 11, because you might fire off a jumper and get lucky, but you're not going to hit 11 shots over Steph without giving him the ball.

red

01-17-2016, 12:09 PM

Scott Kacsmar ‏@FO_ScottKacsmar 8m8 minutes ago
Record in games with 4QC/GWD opportunity
Bruce Arians 19-8 (.704)
Mike McCarthy 22-45-1 (.331)

ouch

pbmax

01-17-2016, 12:19 PM

Randall Cobb ‏@rcobb18 10m10 minutes ago
Just an update: I just got discharged from the hospital here in AZ. I'm feeling much better. Thank you all for the prayers and support.

yetisnowman

01-17-2016, 12:23 PM

This isn't Villanova/Georgetown, Boise St/Oklahoma, etc. These are two pro teams. Mind you we were outplaying this team most of the game. Hindsight is 20/20.....unless you were clamoring for a 2 pt conversion during the game its silly to complain now. We got unlucky and wet the bed in OT. Can't plan for that.

wpony

01-17-2016, 12:53 PM

If he had went for 2 points and not made it everybody would have been hollering for his head he couldnt win either way unless he won the game, it was damned if he did and damned if he didnt and I bet it would be alot of the same people complaining he didnt go for 2 saying he didnt play smart.

Joemailman

01-17-2016, 12:57 PM

I think MM had more confidence that his defense could keep Arizona out of the end zone than he had confidence in his team's short yardage offense. If so, I think he was justified.

pbmax

01-17-2016, 01:24 PM

I think MM had more confidence that his defense could keep Arizona out of the end zone than he had confidence in his team's short yardage offense. If so, I think he was justified.

I came up with that last night. But then I discovered the Packers were 5 of 6 on 2 point conversions this year.

Maxie the Taxi

01-17-2016, 01:25 PM

I bet everybody who's saying now that Stubby did the right thing by kicking the extra point would be applauding and saying he's a genius if he had gone for two and made it.:-P

Pugger

01-17-2016, 01:38 PM

that coin flip really doesn't sit well with me

do you know how hard it is to not make a coin flip at all? that shit takes a lot of practice

then the ref doesn't let green bay change their call

the ref then redoes it, but akes sure the coin is the opposite of what it was on the first attempt, and flips it right

Should the ref have allowed Rodgers to change his call? I don't recall ever seeing an official screw up a coin toss like that before.

Pugger

01-17-2016, 01:40 PM

I'm disappointed it didn't end well for the Packers, but I have to respect Fitz.

He's been the face of the Cardinals for a long time and he put that team on his back at the end of the game. It was 2 HOF players trading plays at the end. Crazy.

The Cardinals are gonna have a tough time beating Carolina if the Panthers play them like they are playing the seachickens today.

Pugger

01-17-2016, 01:42 PM

Freak Out

01-17-2016, 01:43 PM

Fire Stubby. :)

Watching the last play to Fitz makes me sick. Everyone just voids the hole that he prances through. It's nice the AZ has a goal line play for those moments but GB does not.

Freak Out

01-17-2016, 01:44 PM

this

Bullshit.

Pugger

01-17-2016, 01:50 PM

Bullshit.

So if we went for 2 and missed you wouldn't have been pissed? Riiight.

Maxie the Taxi

01-17-2016, 01:50 PM

I bet everybody who's saying now that Stubby did the right thing by kicking the extra point would be applauding and saying he's a genius if he had gone for two and made it.:-PBump. If we're going to be silly, it works both ways.

mraynrand

01-17-2016, 02:03 PM

Bump. If we're going to be silly, it works both ways.

yep. People would have been complementing his big brass....

esoxx

01-17-2016, 02:33 PM

yep. People would have been complementing his big brass....

Stubby?

Smidgeon

01-18-2016, 04:50 AM

Maybe not get a new QB yet:

Vincent Verhei ‏@FO_VVerhei 40m40 minutes ago North Bend, WA
Seriously. Just take in everything about this image and remember: this game went to overtime.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CY5bK74UMAA3xhg.jpg:large

Just watched the game, and even knowing the ending ahead of time (thanks to my girlfriend's nephew who loves to spoil everything), at that moment, I still couldn't believe the game went into overtime.

It truly is remarkable.

Smidgeon

01-18-2016, 04:56 AM

I'm disappointed it didn't end well for the Packers, but I have to respect Fitz.

He's been the face of the Cardinals for a long time and he put that team on his back at the end of the game. It was 2 HOF players trading plays at the end. Crazy.

Yeah, he definitely pushes off with the best of them.

woodbuck27

01-18-2016, 08:33 AM

http://espn.go.com/nfl/undefined

Aaron Rodgers' Hail Mary forces OT; Cards win on Larry Fitzgerald TD

** " On the first play of overtime, Carson Palmer spun away from a defender and threw across his body to an uncovered Larry Fitzgerald. Fitzgerald darted through tacklers for 75 yards as the screaming Cardinals fans finally drowned out the visiting Cheeseheads. He was tackled at the 5. On the next play, Palmer shoveled the ball to Fitzgerald who ran it in to give the Cardinals a 26-20 victory over the Packers Saturday night. "

** Fitzgerald caught eight passes for 176 yards.

** It can't be any crazier than this one, which unfolded on the same field where the Cardinals beat the Packers in overtime 51-45 in a wild-card game in the 2009 season and where Arizona routed Green Bay 38-8 three weeks ago.

"Losing in that fashion, especially with the offense pulling that out, another Hail Mary, is unbelievable ," Clay Matthews

" The Packers, already without wide receiver Davonte Adams, lost Randall Cobb in the first quarter to a chest injury. James Jones was neutralized most of the game with Peterson on him, forcing Rodgers to go to Janis, who had seven catches, [B]five more than he had all year. "

Comment woodbuck27: Again we observed MM tighten up and play for OT. Risk losing control to a coin toss etc... when it was right there in his grasp...squeeze the trigger Packer (ahhhh ....HEAD Coach and play caller....make that call)Mike Mc Carthy ...your holding the gun Mike' ......make the obvious aggressive call when their reeling as a defense in SHOCK that Aaron Rodgers managed to hit Jeff Janis for 'only six'. and just a tied game.

TWO Mike...Two More Points and:

There's no more Larry Fitzerasld and NO Packer players again ..........NOT able to cover him

AND that fact of that game:

Was clearly evident and previously in that game.

MM like a good magician's disappearing act would have by going for two (2) points after the Hail Mary pass completion erased any negative future and that game. He elected to give Packer Nation as he seems to repeat over and over.... a NO CALL approach when HE SIMPLY HAD ALL THE POWER TO WIN THAT GAME.

MM didn't have to again and continue to fail make any adjustment RE: the outstanding and clearly then evident skilled Arizona Cardinals WR Larry FitzGerald.

We saw MM BLOW IT AGAIN ! We'll more than likely SEE MM blown it another time...and it just keeps on a truckin'.

"It comes down to a coin flip sometimes after a long hard-fought game," Rodgers said. "Back and forth, bizarre plays made by both teams, and unfortunately it comes down to that." Aaron Rodgers

** RE: the successful Hail Mary:

"I didn't know where anybody was really," Rodgers said. "I saw Jeff briefly, and I just tried to put some air on it to give him a chance." Aaron Rodgers

Incredible Aaron. woodbuck27

Arizona won the overtime coin toss after the referee declared the first toss hadn't flipped. On the first play, no one was covering Fitzgerald, who caught a pass from Palmer and ran to the 5-yard line. "

no one was covering Fitzgerald ...no one was covering Fitzgerald.....no one was covering Fitzgerald.............. ..........woodbuck27

oldbutnotdeadyet

01-18-2016, 08:50 AM

So if we went for 2 and missed you wouldn't have been pissed? Riiight.

Not me. I still feel the time was as right as it gets for the 2 point try. You just completed 2 miracle passes to get the touchdown, keep riding that donkey....

mraynrand

01-18-2016, 08:54 AM

Not me. I still feel the time was as right as it gets for the 2 point try. You just completed 2 miracle passes to get the touchdown, keep riding that donkey....

I admit it, I would have been pissed - about missing it - but not about trying it. My thinking was that the defense was gassed and the offense wasn't able to consistently move the ball in the second half. One play from the 2 to win or lose versus: 1) getting the toss 2) driving the field and getting a TD or 3) getting a FG and then 4) stopping AZ from a FG and/or TD.

Go with the one play from the 2. Put the ball in the hands of your best player and go for it (well, better put the ball in the hands of Rodgers, Daniels would look kinda silly at QB)

Maxie the Taxi

01-18-2016, 09:01 AM

I admit it, I would have been pissed - about missing it - but not about trying it. My thinking was that the defense was gassed and the offense wasn't able to consistently move the ball in the second half. One play from the 2 to win or lose versus: 1) getting the toss 2) driving the field and getting a TD or 3) getting a FG and then 4) stopping AZ from a FG and/or TD.

Go with the one play from the 2. Put the ball in the hands of your best player and go for it (well, better put the ball in the hands of Rodgers, Daniels would look kinda silly at QB)

Well said. I thought the exact same thing. In addition, I was thinking that Stubby must have a two-point conversion play in his back pocket saved up for this exact situation. I can't believe he doesn't. I bet teams regularly practice such plays. Yet he didn't use it. (Remember the fake extra point or field goal play he ran a year or so ago with Tom Crabtree?)

mraynrand

01-18-2016, 09:08 AM

Well said. I thought the exact same thing. In addition, I was thinking that Stubby must have a two-point conversion play in his back pocket saved up for this exact situation. I can't believe he doesn't. I bet teams regularly practice such plays. Yet he didn't use it. (Remember the fake extra point or field goal play he ran a year or so ago with Tom Crabtree?)

This reminds me of my one complaint with the new extra point system - the old way, you could fake it from the one yard line, now if you want to run a fake, you have to go 15 yards (or is it 17?). Much worse odds for the fake.

Still, the Packers were pretty good on 2 pointers this year....

I woulda lined up in a tight run heavy formation with Raji out there then, when AZ calls the time out, go five wide (Jones, Janis, Abby, Rodgers, Perillo) and Rodgers has his choice or run it in.

pbmax

01-18-2016, 09:38 AM

Maxie the Taxi

01-18-2016, 09:56 AM

This reminds me of my one complaint with the new extra point system - the old way, you could fake it from the one yard line, now if you want to run a fake, you have to go 15 yards (or is it 17?). Much worse odds for the fake.

Still, the Packers were pretty good on 2 pointers this year....

I woulda lined up in a tight run heavy formation with Raji out there then, when AZ calls the time out, go five wide (Jones, Janis, Abby, Rodgers, Perillo) and Rodgers has his choice or run it in.

Yup. The longer Extra Point only adds more surprise to the fake and more chance of success. In the fake I remember Crabtree was so open he could have run 50 yards and still made it.

Maxie the Taxi

01-18-2016, 09:58 AM

Joemailman

01-18-2016, 10:03 AM

Bossman641

01-18-2016, 10:07 AM

Maxie the Taxi

01-18-2016, 10:11 AM

Anyone have a memory of the 2 point tries during the year? I'm wondering if they were in legit do or die situations or if they occurred when we were down 2+ scores and the defense had let up. Obviously the defense never wants the offense to score, but it's tough to play prevent and give up a TD and then flip the switch and become more aggressive on the 2 point try.That argument cuts both ways. If the game is out of hand, why should the offense try hard on a 2 point conversion? The Steelers converted a 2 pointer yesterday in the playoffs. Big Ben made it look easy.

Fritz

01-18-2016, 10:31 AM

Rand and Maxie might be happy to note that I have come around on the 2 point call and agree now that it was probably the wiser course of action.

Part of what turned me around was the dismissal of this suggestion by Tom Oates who said, paraphrasing:

So don't trust an offense that was 5 of 6 in 2 point conversions, but trust the offense to drive from their 25 to the opponents 35 (50 yards) for a FG or 75 yard touchdown drive after a desultory second half performance. Does he really expect a third Hail Mary?

I am firmly on the side of going for two, and was shouting for MM to do it.

First, you could see the defense was getting gassed in the fourth quarter.

Secondly, even if you won the toss and your mostly-lame offense got down the field, you likely get a FG and Arizona gets the ball back.

Third, even in OT, somebody's got to make a play for you to win. Why not take the ball on the two-and-a-half yard line, and put it in the hands of your best player? That seems better odds that asking him to start with the O from his own twenty.

Sure, it's hindsight, but I was calling for it at the time, too. Your team had the momentum, and had a chance to win the game. You're getting the ball right down on the goal line. That's as good as you can possibly hope for. I still don't get what MM was thinking there.

Maxie the Taxi

01-18-2016, 11:16 AM

I am firmly on the side of going for two, and was shouting for MM to do it.

First, you could see the defense was getting gassed in the fourth quarter.

Secondly, even if you won the toss and your mostly-lame offense got down the field, you likely get a FG and Arizona gets the ball back.

Third, even in OT, somebody's got to make a play for you to win. Why not take the ball on the two-and-a-half yard line, and put it in the hands of your best player? That seems better odds that asking him to start with the O from his own twenty.

Sure, it's hindsight, but I was calling for it at the time, too. Your team had the momentum, and had a chance to win the game. You're getting the ball right down on the goal line. That's as good as you can possibly hope for. I still don't get what MM was thinking there.He WASN'T thinking...at least he wasn't thinking out of the box. Stubby has new school, conservative DNA. He's just not comfortable playing a hunch.

He's like the baseball Manager needing a hit with two outs in the bottom of the ninth who will pinch hit for Jimmy Gantner solely because there's a lefty on the mound.

Freak Out

01-18-2016, 11:30 AM

I just had that sinking feeling the game would end the same way it did last year in SEA....the offense never touches the ball in OT and you lose. Why not win it on the last play of the fuckiing game!?!?!? Stubby may be a good coach but he is a fucking coward.

Freak Out

01-18-2016, 11:31 AM

....and anyone who doesn't agree with me is either stupid or a coward. :)

pbmax

01-18-2016, 11:49 AM

Interesting situation. Packers were poor all year on 3rd down and 2 or less, yet they were 5 of 6 on 2 point conversions. Did MM approach the two situations differently? Going for 2 never occurred to me at the time, but I can see the argument for going for 2.

Every 2 point conversion since 2010 has been a pass. Overall, he is 7 for 14 in that span. That includes 5 for 6 this year.

Freak Out

01-18-2016, 11:53 AM

Every 2 point conversion since 2010 has been a pass. Overall, he is 7 for 14 in that span. That includes 5 for 6 this year.

50 percent? I'll take those odds. The same as a coin flip right? Not in the NFL! :)

woodbuck27

01-18-2016, 11:59 AM

....and anyone who doesn't agree with me is either stupid or a coward. :)

or.... doesn't have a clue and sports and how to NOT pass up the Golden Goose of an opportunity.

If we had a poll on this question:

Packerats would rally over their MM Love and agree that MM was correct in electing to extend that game into another OT walk 'into the Rabbit Hole'.

He had one thing to do there and it wasn't anything else but seal then deal right then and there.

Where in hell is MM's confidence in his offence led by his 25 Million Dollar Man when he went for what....'justv ab fricken tie'. Come on strap on a pair Mike? Where does your Irish go to? Italy !??

It is what it is Packerrats>>>> another Classic as Mike McCarthy will always give you >>> CHOKE !

Another tight ass pass on a splendid gift to win. When his 'O' had that power with the ball and in so close.

That missed opportunity will in the end haunt MM for a long long time. It's really sad how very blind the MM lovers are here. Blind to any manner...... of common sense and reason.

Run that Poll for Packer Nation and I'd confidently predict that the results would be down on MM blowing it and NOT firing on all cylinders RE: confidence that the two point conversion was the prudent call.

This is such a no brainer. Such a no brainer I feel sad that any member of Packerrats dispels it as such.

Pugger

01-18-2016, 12:01 PM

50 percent? I'll take those odds. The same as a coin flip right? Not in the NFL! :)

But if you don't get the conversion the coin flip is meaningless. Had we won the toss and scored we wouldn't be talking about this.

mraynrand

01-18-2016, 12:03 PM

But if you don't get the conversion the coin flip is meaningless. Had we won the toss and scored we wouldn't be talking about this.

sure, but a three and out, short punt, three passes and an AZ FG to win was pretty likely too.

Pugger

01-18-2016, 12:04 PM

or doesn't have a clue and sports and how to NOT pass up the Golden Goose of an opportunity.

If we had a poll on this question:

Packerats would rally over their MM Love and agree that MM wqas correct in electing to extend that ghame into another OT walk into the Rabbit hole.

He had one thing to do there and it wasn't anything else but seal then deal right then and there.

Wheren in hellis MM's confidence in his offence led by his 25 Million Dollar Man?

It is what it is Packerats>

Another tight ass pass on a splendid gift to win when his 'O' had that power with the ball and in so close.

That missed opportunity will in the end haunt MM for a long long time. It's really sad how very blind the MM lovers are here.

Run that Poll for Packer nation and I'd confidently predict that the results would be down on MM.

This is such a no brainer.

Especially with 20/20 hindsight.

Pugger

01-18-2016, 12:05 PM

sure, but a three and out, short punt, three passes and an AZ FG to win was pretty likely too.

Where is the confidence in this juggernaut offense? You all assume we make the 2 pointer. An extra point with Crosby is a surer thing than going for 2 IMO.

woodbuck27

01-18-2016, 12:13 PM

But if you don't get the conversion the coin flip is meaningless. Had we won the toss and scored we wouldn't be talking about this.

MM calls the 2 point play and we might well have won with such favourable circumstances in OUR favor.

His side had the ball...use that dagger and shove it in their throats.

Be aggressive and not stretch that game into whatever unknown (s).

Get errrr done then and there....too easy to call.

mraynrand

01-18-2016, 12:15 PM

Where is the confidence in this juggernaut offense? You all assume we make the 2 pointer. An extra point with Crosby is a surer thing than going for 2 IMO.

I don't assume at all. I just like the odds of scoring from the 2 on one play better than winning in OT. My view is no different than it was right after the TD score.

Freak Out

01-18-2016, 12:27 PM

It's official.

Bossman641

01-18-2016, 12:35 PM

It's hard to make too big an argument either way since we have the benefit of hindsight. The general thought is you play for the win on the road/OT at home, or play for the win when you have the weaker team.

I wonder if MM would have gone for the win if there wasn't such a long review process...catch them while they are still shell-shocked.

Patler

01-18-2016, 12:38 PM

Where is the confidence in this juggernaut offense? You all assume we make the 2 pointer. An extra point with Crosby is a surer thing than going for 2 IMO.

There isn't, which is precisely why you go for two. To win in OT you have to sustain a drive, or expect your defense to score or at least get a turnover deep enough that the O doesn't have to sustain a drive before kicking a FG.

From the time they took possession, I said TD and two-point, forget OT.

Not unlike the Ice Bowl. 3rd down, 16 seconds, no time outs. They chose to run, which was a win or lose play. Score and you win. Fail to score and the clock runs out. They could have kicked a FG on 3rd down for the tie, or tried a pass on third and kicked the FG if incomplete. They decided to put it all on being better for one play than Dallas was. The two point conversion would have been the same situation.

Play to win, don't play so as not to lose, especially on the road with a team with no offense.

Maxie the Taxi

01-18-2016, 12:43 PM

There isn't, which is precisely why you go for two. To win in OT you have to sustain a drive, or expect your defense to score or at least get a turnover deep enough that the O doesn't have to sustain a drive before kicking a FG.

From the time they took possession, I said TD and two-point, forget OT.

Not unlike the Ice Bowl. 3rd down, 16 seconds, no time outs. They chose to run, which was a win or lose play. Score and you win. Fail to score and the clock runs out. They could have kicked a FG on 3rd down for the tie, or tried a pass on third and kicked the FG if incomplete. They decided to put it all on being better for one play than Dallas was. The two point conversion would have been the same situation.

Play to win, don't play so as not to lose, especially on the road with a team with no offense.

Great comparison, Patler. I should have thought of it. As has been stated earlier, championships turn on these sort of events. If Lombardi had not scored on that play, his reputation and that of the Packers might have been eclipsed for all time by Landry and the Cowboys.

Joemailman

01-18-2016, 12:47 PM

Maybe MM would have gone for 2 if the temperature was 13 below.

Maxie the Taxi

01-18-2016, 12:49 PM

^LOL

mraynrand

01-18-2016, 01:51 PM

Great comparison, Patler. I should have thought of it. As has been stated earlier, championships turn on these sort of events. If Lombardi had not scored on that play, his reputation and that of the Packers might have been eclipsed for all time by Landry and the Cowboys.

well, it was that play and the Meredith INT the year before.

Joemailman

01-18-2016, 04:47 PM

MM and Coord PC's starting at 5:00. http://www.packers.com/media-center/live-webcasts.html

red

01-18-2016, 04:57 PM

is he leaving????????????

if not, yawn

red

01-18-2016, 05:06 PM

great fucking audio

you can barely hear him

red

01-18-2016, 05:07 PM

"structure was part of the failure on offense"

pbmax

01-18-2016, 05:07 PM

- On 2 point conversion, he decided against it. Was aware analytics would recommend it considering the game at the start of the game. But felt that good performance from D and backups at WR on O meant it was a better option to kick the PAT.

- M3 is keeping play calling next year

- Fully anticipates Clements being back

- I missed the discussion of dedicated WR coach (see red's comment above about structure)

- He's not buying the close losses in playoffs add up to a consistent problem

- Acknowledges difficulties at home esp. Division games

red

01-18-2016, 05:11 PM

- On 2 point conversion, he decided against it. Was aware analytics would recommend it considering the game at the start of the game. But felt that good performance from D and backups at WR on O meant it was a better option to kick the PAT.

- M3 is keeping play calling next year

- Fully anticipates Clements being back

- I missed the discussion of dedicated WR coach (see red's comment above about structure)

hw said it something that will begin being discussed on wednesday when they do the end of the season interviews with the coaches

sounds like he knows the changes they made last year really fucked things up

pbmax

01-18-2016, 05:15 PM

- Says Eddie Lacy did not have a successful offseason and he never caught back up

- Says he liked some of the changes they made to offend (start of season) without Jordy but doesn't think they did enough to help injured players OR players facing a difficult matchup with the game plan

- Unless the rest of the Packer public, McCarthy thought Janis had a bad pre-season. Had a meeting with just him at some point. Thought he really rallied on ST and learned from his mistakes toward the end of the season. Thought Janis laid everything on the line in AZ game between O snaps and special teams, was really gassed at the end of the game. Thought the Hail Mary was a testament to his dedication to helping the team.

Joemailman

01-18-2016, 05:15 PM

MM: He (Lacy) can not play at the weight he was at this year.

red

01-18-2016, 05:16 PM

says eddie has a lot of work today, his offseason was not very good

and he can not play at that weight anymore

so much for eddy not having a weight issue. cat's officially out of the bag now

maybe they should go on a buddy diet?

red

01-18-2016, 05:21 PM

m3's goal is for clay to play OLB, always has been. "he's outside linebacker, we need to get back to him there"

note to ted

red

01-18-2016, 05:27 PM

"dick rod and davonte need to step up"

Joemailman

01-18-2016, 05:29 PM

Very unusual for MM to call out a player publicly as he did with Lacy, but I'm glad he did it. Lacy cheated the team this year.

red

01-18-2016, 05:34 PM

Very unusual for MM to call out a player publicly as he did with Lacy, but I'm glad he did it. Lacy cheated the team this year.

it was good to hear. i think they tried everything else including benching him this year

public shaming might be the last try

beveaux1

01-18-2016, 05:35 PM

it was good to hear. i think they tried everything else including benching him this year

public shaming might be the last try

Step away from the table!!

Joemailman

01-18-2016, 05:40 PM

Sounds like Capers is saying that Randall, not Peppers was at fault on the 75 yard play.

pbmax

01-18-2016, 05:44 PM

"dick rod and davonte need to step up"

Yeah, that was just short of being put on blast like Lacy. Then said that they rank players at the end of the season, then review all their cutups and re-rank. Takes the emotion out of it.

But sounded like he wasn't happy with them right now.

pbmax

01-18-2016, 05:45 PM

Sounds like Capers is saying that Randall, not Peppers was at fault on the 75 yard play.

Ouch. Still love him and Rollins.

Will need to re-watch M3 as he discussed Jordy's absence in a much more detailed way than "we couldn't go deep". Talked about effect it has on 3 level attack on Defense. Also said something about the middle being threatened but unsure if that was Nelson in slot, effect of Nelson or missing element unrelated to Nelson.

mraynrand

01-18-2016, 05:59 PM

Also said something about the middle being threatened but unsure if that was Nelson in slot, effect of Nelson or missing element unrelated to Nelson.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/7SS24_CgwEM/maxresdefault.jpg

Joemailman

01-18-2016, 08:00 PM

MM on going for 2.

You always consider all your options. It was definitely an option. Not the right option. I understand how analytics plays in game management. You also have to look at the flow. The way our defense was playing, I had great confidence in them stopping the Cardinals. With our receivers and the 2-point plays we had I wasn't sure about that.

Joemailman

01-18-2016, 08:10 PM

Diagram of The Play:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/confusion-blown-coverage-missed-tackles-on-one-play-doomed-packers-b99651963z1-365603161.html

Freak Out

01-18-2016, 10:59 PM

More pain.

Freak Out

01-18-2016, 11:00 PM

MM is a pussy.

Pugger

01-19-2016, 01:01 AM

It appears the reason why we didn't go for 2 is because Mike and the offensive coaches were not comfortable with the WR group in that game. He said had Cobb not been hurt they probably go for 2 but not with Janis and Abby who are very inexperienced.

wpony

01-19-2016, 01:51 AM

I found this on BoydsBets that overall percentage of I think its college and pro? any way its of the last 997 attempts
passing was 61 percent
running was 43.4 Percent
percent total 48.2
maybe with out all our receivers he was afraid they would drop it if they passed it and there line was getting so tired out he was hopping that during half time they got alittle rest so they could try running again there line was looking exhausted.

Maxie the Taxi

01-19-2016, 07:41 AM

Stubby:

You always consider all your options. It was definitely an option. Not the right option. I understand how analytics plays in game management . You also have to look at the flow. The way our defense was playing, I had great confidence in them stopping the Cardinals. With our receivers and the 2-point plays we had I wasn't sure about that.

He "wasn't sure" his inexperienced receivers could make a play from the two yard line but, apparently, he was sure they could make a bunch of plays starting at their own 20 in OT!!! And, the moron went into the playoff game without a 2-point play suited to the personnel playing in the game!!!

This is pure CYO BS! I wasn't on the Fire Stubby bandwagon but I'm about to climb on. I said before Stubby has "play it safe...play not to lose" in his DNA. This confirms it IMO.

Pathetic.

Smidgeon

01-19-2016, 08:00 AM

Patler

01-19-2016, 08:09 AM

The concern was their knowledge on the two point conversion subpackages. The regular offense, the one they would run from the 20, they were still making mistakes on. No surprise to me he called it inexperience.

If that is true, (and I do believe that it is true) in the 2nd playoff game, after 6 weeks of camp, 4 preseason games, 17 weeks of the regular season, 16 regular season games, 2 weeks of playoff practices and nearly two playoff games, it is kind of poor coaching, especially since they knew they would be without Adams this week. What if they needed two points just to tie?

Maxie the Taxi

01-19-2016, 08:11 AM

If that is true, (and I do believe that it is true) in the 2nd playoff game, after 6 weeks of camp, 4 preseason games, 17 weeks of the regular season, 16 regular season games, 2 weeks of playoff practices and nearly two playoff games, it is kind of poor coaching, especially since they knew they would be without Adams this week. What if they needed two points just to tie?Exactly! It's like you said, poor coaching, or like I said, CYO BS.

Freak Out

01-19-2016, 09:12 AM

Having the guts, and trust in the players you coach is why we remember guys like Lombardi....and why we will forget guys like Stubby in 50 years.

mraynrand

01-19-2016, 09:40 AM

Having the guts, and trust in the players you coach is why we remember guys like Lombardi....and why we will forget guys like Stubby in 50 years.

I don't think we'll forget Stubby in 50. I won't recall him, because I'll be dead.

Anyway, his thinking was totally reasonable.

Still, I would have liked to see them put the heavy Raji package out there with Kuhn and Lacy and maybe even Rip in the backfield, play fake it and then have Rodgers run it around the end. Or if they call timeout, then put Janis, Abby, Jones, Perillo, and Rodgers split wide, and let ARod decide whether to throw or run it.

I just liked their odds better on the one play from 2 yards away versus the way they were moving the ball and the fact that the defense was getting tired and the refs were clearly against them, intentionally or not.

esoxx

01-19-2016, 12:06 PM

MM is a pussy.

In my view, he was more of a pussy in last year's NFC Championship Game when he kicked two dink FG's and then in the 4th quarter ground the offense to a conservative halt, including running in to a stacked eight man front towards the end instead of playing for the first down which equals winning. Pssst Stubby, you have Aaron Rodgers. Maybe let him make a play and decide the outcome instead of our defense!!!

pbmax

01-19-2016, 05:55 PM

Having the guts, and trust in the players you coach is why we remember guys like Lombardi....and why we will forget guys like Stubby in 50 years.

I think he is mostly remembered because his calls worked. His genius would be under appreciated if he only captured two titles and one Super Bowl.

woodbuck27

01-19-2016, 08:43 PM

Diagram of The Play:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/confusion-blown-coverage-missed-tackles-on-one-play-doomed-packers-b99651963z1-365603161.html

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4V0TYIO6yv4

and Joe THANKS for helping to continue the:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRUmjpzM_pwngxjc6w7VLTc565Jg_4eb uTCMnpHGulE4qI8Rmaedw

Need for a CURE !

GOooo Uuchh Uuccchhhh Paaaaa chuuu Gooo !

Pugger

01-20-2016, 12:44 AM

Stubby:

He "wasn't sure" his inexperienced receivers could make a play from the two yard line but, apparently, he was sure they could make a bunch of plays starting at their own 20 in OT!!! And, the moron went into the playoff game without a 2-point play suited to the personnel playing in the game!!!

This is pure CYO BS! I wasn't on the Fire Stubby bandwagon but I'm about to climb on. I said before Stubby has "play it safe...play not to lose" in his DNA. This confirms it IMO.

Pathetic.

With a 2 point play you get one shot. I seriously doubt they practiced 2 point conversions with Janis. Rodgers said after the game whenever they worked on 2 pointers they had JJ and Cobb practice them.

Pugger

01-20-2016, 12:47 AM

If that is true, (and I do believe that it is true) in the 2nd playoff game, after 6 weeks of camp, 4 preseason games, 17 weeks of the regular season, 16 regular season games, 2 weeks of playoff practices and nearly two playoff games, it is kind of poor coaching, especially since they knew they would be without Adams this week. What if they needed two points just to tie?

It was more like poor preparation - they didn't foresee losing Cobb for most of the game.

Pugger

01-20-2016, 12:53 AM

Having the guts, and trust in the players you coach is why we remember guys like Lombardi....and why we will forget guys like Stubby in 50 years.

Most rank McCarthy as the 4th best HC in franchise history behind Holmgren, Curly and Vince in that order. I don't think Mike is gonna be forgotten. Sorry about that.

Fritz

01-20-2016, 05:14 AM

With a 2 point play you get one shot. I seriously doubt they practiced 2 point conversions with Janis. Rodgers said after the game whenever they worked on 2 pointers they had JJ and Cobb practice them.

Hmmm....didn't Abbrederis recently catch a two-point conversion, in which he cut sharply over the middle and caught it in the end zone, or was that a touchdown? Couldn't you run that play?

I see MM's point, but I still think after a whole season you'd have to have Janis or Abby prepped for a goal-line play. My preference would have been to put a tight end out there on the right side, Kuhn and Lacey in the backfield, Rodgers under center. Everybody pulls right, Rodgers fakes handoff to Lacey, turns and goes left. Then he can run or pass.

And wasn't there an inside pitch to Lacey earlier this year? You line up with Lacey in the backfield, Rodgers in the pistol, and everyone else spread out? Rodgers looks to pass, Lacey goes up to the middle of the line like he's blocking, Rodgers pitches it to him.

I don't understand MM's confidence in what clearly seemed a gassed defense. They'd given up ten points pretty quickly.

I don't get it. The defense looked tired; the offense looked sputtering again. You have the ball a couple yards from the goal line, in the hands of your best player.

oldbutnotdeadyet

01-20-2016, 05:22 AM

Hmmm....didn't Abbrederis recently catch a two-point conversion, in which he cut sharply over the middle and caught it in the end zone, or was that a touchdown? Couldn't you run that play?

I see MM's point, but I still think after a whole season you'd have to have Janis or Abby prepped for a goal-line play. My preference would have been to put a tight end out there on the right side, Kuhn and Lacey in the backfield, Rodgers under center. Everybody pulls right, Rodgers fakes handoff to Lacey, turns and goes left. Then he can run or pass.

And wasn't there an inside pitch to Lacey earlier this year? You line up with Lacey in the backfield, Rodgers in the pistol, and everyone else spread out? Rodgers looks to pass, Lacey goes up to the middle of the line like he's blocking, Rodgers pitches it to him.

I don't understand MM's confidence in what clearly seemed a gassed defense. They'd given up ten points pretty quickly.

I don't get it. The defense looked tired; the offense looked sputtering again. You have the ball a couple yards from the goal line, in the hands of your best player.

Yup, I agree, but in addition, u have to ride the big MO. They had just completed two insane miracle passes, the team had to be riding pretty high at that point, and the cards had to be devastated, it was time to go for the juggler. I think MM knows this, and he will learn from it.

mraynrand

01-20-2016, 09:03 AM

Hmmm....didn't Abbrederis recently catch a two-point conversion, in which he cut sharply over the middle and caught it in the end zone, or was that a touchdown? Couldn't you run that play?

I see MM's point, but I still think after a whole season you'd have to have Janis or Abby prepped for a goal-line play. My preference would have been to put a tight end out there on the right side, Kuhn and Lacey in the backfield, Rodgers under center. Everybody pulls right, Rodgers fakes handoff to Lacey, turns and goes left. Then he can run or pass.

And wasn't there an inside pitch to Lacey earlier this year? You line up with Lacey in the backfield, Rodgers in the pistol, and everyone else spread out? Rodgers looks to pass, Lacey goes up to the middle of the line like he's blocking, Rodgers pitches it to him.

I don't understand MM's confidence in what clearly seemed a gassed defense. They'd given up ten points pretty quickly.

I don't get it. The defense looked tired; the offense looked sputtering again. You have the ball a couple yards from the goal line, in the hands of your best player.

I agree with everything you say, except that I don't want Daniels under center.

Patler

01-20-2016, 09:20 AM

It was more like poor preparation - they didn't foresee losing Cobb for most of the game.

If they didn't, they should have. I have never been around a successful coach at upper levels who didn't have contingency plans. Players get injured, it's a given. If the plan called for Cobb and Jones, someone should have been ready because both have been limited at times this year because of injuries and any player is a simple rolled ankle away from being out of the game. Someone should have been ready just in case Cobb was out and it came down to a two point conversion needed for a TIE, in which case they would have had to go for it.

Fritz

01-20-2016, 10:20 AM

We keep hearing about how Abbrederis is, like Cobb, a slot guy. Why wasn't he prepped for that type of play?

Pugger

01-20-2016, 10:36 AM

If they didn't, they should have. I have never been around a successful coach at upper levels who didn't have contingency plans. Players get injured, it's a given. If the plan called for Cobb and Jones, someone should have been ready because both have been limited at times this year because of injuries and any player is a simple rolled ankle away from being out of the game. Someone should have been ready just in case Cobb was out and it came down to a two point conversion needed for a TIE, in which case they would have had to go for it.

Perhaps they didn't anticipate James Jones being completely ineffective in that game? JJ could have been their contingency plan.

Patler

01-20-2016, 11:10 AM

Perhaps they didn't anticipate James Jones being completely ineffective in that game? JJ could have been their contingency plan.

I thought he was part of the original plan. Didn't someone say they practiced with Jones and Cobb at WR for 2 point conversions?

Patler

01-20-2016, 11:16 AM

Hmmm....didn't Abbrederis recently catch a two-point conversion, in which he cut sharply over the middle and caught it in the end zone, or was that a touchdown? Couldn't you run that play?

Abbrederis got the 2 point conversion against Washington. Here is a video:

http://www.highlighthub.com/jared-abbrederis-shake-n-bake-2-pt-conversion-video/

http://www.highlighthub.com/jared-abbrederis-shake-n-bake-2-pt-conversion-video/

In this game, all Janis did was come through time and time again, yet MM still hesitated to use him? But would he even have had to? No shortyardage package without 3 WRs?

mraynrand

01-20-2016, 12:07 PM

Perhaps they didn't anticipate James Jones being completely ineffective in that game? JJ could have been their contingency plan.

In some ways, I thought they kinda lucked out having Peterson cover Jones. That took away AZ's best db to cover the Packers slowest WR. I know he's Rodger's security blanket, but the reality is that he's a worn out retread. AZ probably ended up, overall, doing the Packers a favor wasting Peterman on Jones.

mraynrand

01-20-2016, 12:10 PM

Abbrederis got the 2 point conversion against Washington. Here is a video:

http://www.highlighthub.com/jared-abbrederis-shake-n-bake-2-pt-conversion-video/

In this game, all Janis did was come through time and time again, yet MM still hesitated to use him? But would he even have had to? No shortyardage package without 3 WRs?

Rodgers proved in the Lions game that he can't throw an accurate ball to an athletic WR on a two point conversion (Adams). Had they targeted Janis on a corner route, Rodgers probably under throws him, or gets 'scared' like at Carolina. The Problem is obviously Rodgers - he's used to and more comfortable with slow ineffective WRs who can't get open like Jones and Cobb.

pbmax

01-20-2016, 03:31 PM

My money is that Janis wasn't up to speed on 2 point plays, if indeed that was the actual reason they didn't do it. They knew Abby was starting as #3 slot guy all week.

mraynrand

01-20-2016, 04:10 PM

My money is that Janis wasn't up to speed on 2 point plays, if indeed that was the actual reason they didn't do it. They new Abby was starting as #3 slot guy all week.

I just think Stubby never really considered the 2 pointer. Is there even an example of anyone voluntarily going for a 2 pointer to win in the NFL in recent memory - with something important on the line? Doubt it.

Janis held up pretty well on the previous three targets - interfered with on one :), and 100 yards of offense on the other two.

pbmax

01-20-2016, 04:52 PM

I just think Stubby never really considered the 2 pointer. Is there even an example of anyone voluntarily going for a 2 pointer to win in the NFL in recent memory - with something important on the line? Doubt it.

Janis held up pretty well on the previous three targets - interfered with on one :), and 100 yards of offense on the other two.

This is probably true.

woodbuck27

01-20-2016, 09:41 PM

For posterity I'll drop these game highlights here:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000625286/article/mccarthy-packers-struggled-to-adapt-without-jordy

Freak Out

01-21-2016, 12:16 AM

Fuck Woody.....Fuck.

How in the hell did Rodgers throw that fucker 60 yards falling down?

Fuck you Stubby!

pbmax

01-21-2016, 07:57 AM

Still not sure what he says here makes sense to me, especially the first paragraph:

"Philosophically to me, to have a successful passing game, you have to have big targets that can turn through the middle of the field, whether it's a tight end, whether it's a big receiver," McCarthy said, via the Green Bay Press-Gazette. "You look at the production of Jordy when he went inside, you look at the production when he was inside, now you're dictating to the defense what coverage they can play to you. When you don't have that element or the element to complement that, you see what we saw this year."

"If you really don't feel the threat down the field or a big-time threat on both sides, you're going to see three-deep, three-shell coverage and tight man-to-man," McCarthy said. "We're going to add that extra player to the box, to that run area, very quickly. Just look at the first play of the Arizona game. We're in a three-wide receiver set and they're in an eight-man front, which would be a nine-man front. ... That's the biggest commitment you can make to the run defensively. That's what we saw a large part of the season."

Mainly because it sounds like he is saying two different things and Jordy didn't spend much time in the slot.

woodbuck27

01-21-2016, 08:49 AM

Fuck Woody.....Fuck.

How in the hell did Rodgers throw that fucker 60 yards falling down?

Fuck you Stubby!

That throw was in the sense you saw it a completely off balance and falling down amazing heave of the ball and wham....right in the right spot for Janis to get under.

I've watched it about 20 times. Aaron Rodgers is a very strong arm QB.

If they vcan get his head back on simply being the ALL TEAM Guy and taking advantage of what the game gives him.

Holy Hell Look Out Football World.

The Green Bay Packers will dominate.

If not.....Aaron's amazing talent and winning Super Bowls will go down as 'what if's'.

The number ONE priority this OFF SEASON. MM and ARod must get totally and for the whole season ...ON THE SAME PAGE.

GO PACK GO !

pbmax

01-21-2016, 08:51 AM

On this page, there is an Official Review of both the coin flip and the Fitzgerald "catch". The explanation for the catch starts out making sense, until he gets to the details. And he should have left the Dez non-catch out of it.

http://operations.nfl.com/the-officials/inside-nfl-gameday-central/official-review-with-dean-blandino/

woodbuck27

01-21-2016, 09:12 AM

"Philosophically to me, to have a successful passing game, you have to have big targets that can turn through the middle of the field, whether it's a tight end, whether it's a big receiver," McCarthy said, via the Green Bay Press-Gazette. "You look at the production of Jordy when he went inside, you look at the production when he was inside, now you're dictating to the defense what coverage they can play to you. When you don't have that element or the element to complement that, you see what we saw this year." ...MM

"If you really don't feel the threat down the field or a big-time threat on both sides, you're going to see three-deep, three-shell coverage and tight man-to-man," McCarthy said. "We're going to add that extra player to the box, to that run area, very quickly. Just look at the first play of the Arizona game. We're in a three-wide receiver set and they're in an eight-man front, which would be a nine-man front. ... That's the biggest commitment you can make to the run defensively. That's what we saw a large part of the season." .... MM

My response:

Mike McCarthy and Excuses:

Excuses Na...Na...Na.......Naaaa ...naaaa ....Naaaaaa ...naaaaaa

Pugger

01-21-2016, 09:36 AM

In some ways, I thought they kinda lucked out having Peterson cover Jones. That took away AZ's best db to cover the Packers slowest WR. I know he's Rodger's security blanket, but the reality is that he's a worn out retread. AZ probably ended up, overall, doing the Packers a favor wasting Peterman on Jones.

I never thought about that but you are probably right. Was Peterson on Cobb before Randall got hurt?

Smidgeon

01-21-2016, 09:39 AM

Nope. All on Jones. Probably smart too, being able to completely shut down one of Green Bay's primary options.

Maxie the Taxi

01-21-2016, 09:50 AM

Still not sure what he says here makes sense to me, especially the first paragraph:
Mainly because it sounds like he is saying two different things and Jordy didn't spend much time in the slot.
The most telling part of the article is this:

Jordy Nelson's absence played a huge role in the Green Bay Packers' offensive struggles this season. It was evident from the team's bye week onward, when defenses played press coverage and stacked the box, knowing the slow-footed receiving corps couldn't gain separation.

The Packers didn't make excuses during the season. Nelson wasn't returning, so why lament his absence?

Apparently, the problem with GB's offense was "evident" to everybody -- media, PackerRats, opposing defenses, MM and TT -- yet little to nothing was done to compensate. If a "big" WR was key, why didn't TT beat the bushes for one, in free agency or on Practice Squads around the league? Or why didn't MM invest all the time required to coach up the "big" athletic WR he had? Failing that, why didn't MM rework his offensive schemes and pass routes to compensate for Jordy's loss? Surely he's not arguing that a "big" WR going across the middle is the ONLY way to defeat defenses in the NFL today!

If I was the owner of the Green Bay Packers, I'd be looking for an "associate" coach who has new and different ideas about offensive scheming and route running. I'd insist MM hire him.

And if I were MM, I'd keep my damn mouth shut. Pathetic.

Pugger

01-21-2016, 10:08 AM

Mike's bigger gaff was not having an individual WR coach to work with the big athletic WR he had. Having Van Pelt stretched too thin trying to coach 2 positions hurt both Aaron and the young WRs. We all saw how our passing game fell flat on its face. I'd keep Alex with the QBs - he was the QB coach last year when Aaron won the MVP - and appoint or hire a separate WR coach. Wasn't Edgar the WR coach last year?

woodbuck27

01-21-2016, 10:11 AM

The most telling part of the article is this:

Apparently, the problem with GB's offense was "evident" to everybody -- media, PackerRats, opposing defenses, MM and TT -- yet little to nothing was done to compensate. If a "big" WR was key, why didn't TT beat the bushes for one, in free agency or on Practice Squads around the league? Or why didn't MM invest all the time required to coach up the "big" athletic WR he had? Failing that, why didn't MM rework his offensive schemes and pass routes to compensate for Jordy's loss? Surely he's not arguing that a "big" WR going across the middle is the ONLY way to defeat defenses in the NFL today!

If I was the owner of the Green Bay Packers, I'd be looking for an "associate" coach who has new and different ideas about offensive scheming and route running. I'd insist MM hire him.

And if I were MM, I'd keep my damn mouth shut. Pathetic.

Thank goodness some of us see this muddy situation so clearly.

Will the same BS continue next season?

I have hope it won't because I'm a positive guy. So much of that comes down to simply and totally HONEST Communication and a focused follow up for achieving the highest goal.

Nothing less than a Super Bowl.

So what will my positive optimism do to change MM and Arod and the relationship they have that certainly appears to be challenged in my view?

Nothing.

Those of us here that won't be blinded by the option of the Status Quo (and MM and TT) are the members of Packer Nation that will feel the most relief when Mike McCarthy is finally done as the Green Bay Packers Head Coach.

It's like how some Packer fans felt and feeling that Brett Favre as a Packer Starting QB had run it's course.

Funny how life so often gets rights here:

The problem with a different cast yet similar issues >>> One BAD ISSUE >>> Has grown to such a proportion that now....it's gone .... FUKLL CIRCLE.

Mike McCarthy isn't the answer and 'in fact' it's growing far worse.

Mike McCarthy has to soon be replaced with the BEST possible candidate a search for such will produce.

I see this needed move by those in POWER and the Green Bay Packers as a too obvious need for any 'REAL
HOPE' with Aaron Rodgers and another Super Bowl.

Otherwise this shout rings HOLLOW !

GO PACK GO !

Pugger

01-21-2016, 10:22 AM

woodbuck27

01-21-2016, 10:27 AM

I hate to break it to you Woody, but McCarthy isn't going anyplace any time soon - unless the team goes to hell next season. IMO I was impressed with how McCarthy and this staff got this rag tag bunch playing this offseason. NOBODY gave us a chance in hell in AZ. Most thought we'd be blown out again. AZ got a few lucky breaks - the tipped pass for a TD and the coin toss - and they are moving on instead of us.

And just who would be a possible candidate to replace MM? And if we do clean house unless we find someone who runs the WCO our future HOF QB would have to learn an entirely new offense. By the time he gets good at it he'll be even older than he is now.

Guess what Pugger:

Your guy is done already. It's just a matter of a short time before you see that as 'a fact'.

For the Packers to ever get a real chance to win:

MM has to be shown the door. It will be handled carefully out of some respect for Mike McCarthy.

Make no mistake about this. His act is worn out now.

He's soon............. to be replaced.

Pugger

01-21-2016, 10:34 AM

Guess what Pugger:

Your guy is done already. It's just a matter of a short time before you see that as a fact.

For the Packers to ever get a real chance to win:

MM has to be shown the door. It will be handled carefully out of some respect for Mike McCarthy.

Make no mistake about this. His act is worn out now.

He's soon............. to be replaced.

Wanna bet? :lol:

mraynrand

01-21-2016, 10:41 AM

Guess what Pugger:

Your guy is done already. It's just a matter of a short time before you see that as 'a fact'.

For the Packers to ever get a real chance to win:

MM has to be shown the door. It will be handled carefully out of some respect for Mike McCarthy.

Make no mistake about this. His act is worn out now.

He's soon............. to be replaced.\

You come up with a lot of whoppers, but this is probably top ten of your worst takes. Stubby has not only been competitive every year, but the team is competitive in probably 90-95% of games, and is only eclipsed in success during his run by Belichick. Guys like that write their own ticket.

Your best bet to get rid of Stubby is for him to have some kind of cardiac event.

woodbuck27

01-21-2016, 10:42 AM

Wanna bet? :lol:

We'd be betting another Super Bowl Title with Aaron Rodgers under Center Pugger.

A huge BET if you LOVE the Packers.

I LOVE the Green Bay Packers.

I love MM .......just not as the Packer HC.

PACKERS !

Pugger

01-21-2016, 10:46 AM

We'd be betting another Super Bowl Title with Aaron Rodgers under Center Pugger.

A huge BET if you LOVE the Packers.

I LOVE the Green Bay Packers.

I love MM .......just not as the Packer HC.

PACKERS !

Yeah, MM can't win the big one. :roll:

But keep dreaming.

Maxie the Taxi

01-21-2016, 11:02 AM

And then there's this:

McCarthy and the coaching staff also assume blame for not finding a way to get things quickly back on track when responding to injuries, including the loss of left tackle David Bakhtiari (ankle) during the final stretch of the regular season.

“If I was going to be critical of one of the things on offense that we didn’t do a good enough job of, we didn’t handle the injuries, let alone Jordy,” McCarthy said. “The left tackle, you have to help people at times in each and every season. It’s part of your game-planning, it’s part of your strategic makeup when you get into game planning and when we had uphill match ups, we didn’t do a good job helping that individual.”

It's like my national sales manager coming into my office to explain why sales (and profits) went south last year:

"Well, boss, it was obvious that John, not our best salesman, needed help with closing that huge sale to Boeing. It's tough that we lost that one. It was our key account. We shouldn't have left him on his own out there.

"And, when the regional sales guy in New Jersey got sick and went out for the year, we probably should have went to plan B, you know, like modifying our sales territories and strategy to compensate, rather than try to do business as usual by replacing him with office interns and that guy we let go two years ago."

Of course, the first thing I'd do is kick my own ass for not paying attention to what was going on in my own company, but the next thing I'd do is decide whether the national sales manager understands his job, is worth rehabilitating or merits replacement.

The thing I wouldn't do is say: "It was a tough year. Sometimes the ball doesn't bounce your way. You did the best you could. You recognize that you made mistatkes. Next year the guy in New Jersey will be healthy and our sales people will be more experienced and more competent. Good job. See you this time next year. Here's your Christmas bonus."

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2016/01/18/offense-struggled-adapt-without-nelson/78965990/

mraynrand

01-21-2016, 11:09 AM

Maxie the Taxi

01-21-2016, 11:17 AM

^^^ I dunno, it's not a perfect analogy. But let's run with it anywayStubby can go and help the LT, but that leaves something else open. It's like moving your top sales guy from the Caterpillar account to the Boeing account. You might save the Boeing account (maybe not because the guy isn'e experienced there), but lose the Caterpillar account. Maybe that's like the Sitton move against MN.

The better move was to bring up the fresh faced kid a who is begging to make his mark (Tretter) rather than the recovering alcoholic sales guy who used to be great but hasn't landed an account in five years (Barclay).

But sometimes you don't have any guys in the bullpen and no guys just waiting at home for your call, like RBs waiting for Belichick to call.Nope, not perfect, but it makes my point.

By "helping" the LT I was thinking more tactics than personnel, i.e., the FB or RB or TE double-teaming the LT's block, etc. I think the best managers don't think changing personnel first, they change tactics or find creative ways to use their current personnel. It's the thing they can directly and immediately control.

mraynrand

01-21-2016, 11:23 AM

Nope, not perfect, but it makes my point.

By "helping" the LT I was thinking more tactics than personnel, i.e., the FB or RB or TE double-teaming the LT's block, etc. I think the best managers don't think changing personnel first, they change tactics or find creative ways to use their current personnel. It's the thing they can directly and immediately control.

I thought the same thing in a couple of games, but those moves come at a cost too.

I think PB is right. The offense has to change somewhat to accommodate. Though I bet Stubby will think exactly like you portray (It was a tough year. Sometimes the ball doesn't bounce your way. You did the best you could......) - next year APRH, the offense will be dominant with 6 capable receivers and the pre snap read will work and crush other teams. But if it doesn't, and Stubby has no fundamental change to the offense, we'll see the same thing happen (unless the O-line improves, the running back improve, etc).

I am betting Stubby will go with just improving the line, the RB and getting everyone healthy, thinking that then he can just line up and dominate.

Maxie the Taxi

01-21-2016, 11:29 AM

I thought the same thing in a couple of games, but those moves come at a cost too.

I think PB is right. The offense has to change somewhat to accommodate. Though I bet Stubby will think exactly like you portray (It was a tough year. Sometimes the ball doesn't bounce your way. You did the best you could......) - next year APRH, the offense will be dominant with 6 capable receivers and the pre snap read will work and crush other teams. But if it doesn't, and Stubby has no fundamental change to the offense, we'll see the same thing happen (unless the O-line improves, the running back improve, etc).

I am betting Stubby will go with just improving the line, the RB and getting everyone healthy, thinking that then he can just line up and dominate.Yup. It's why we love to call him Stubby.

Smidgeon

01-21-2016, 11:44 AM

And then there's this:

It's like my national sales manager coming into my office to explain why sales (and profits) went south last year:

"Well, boss, it was obvious that John, not our best salesman, needed help with closing that huge sale to Boeing. It's tough that we lost that one. It was our key account. We shouldn't have left him on his own out there.

"And, when the regional sales guy in New Jersey got sick and went out for the year, we probably should have went to plan B, you know, like modifying our sales territories and strategy to compensate, rather than try to do business as usual by replacing him with office interns and that guy we let go two years ago."

Of course, the first thing I'd do is kick my own ass for not paying attention to what was going on in my own company, but the next thing I'd do is decide whether the national sales manager understands his job, is worth rehabilitating or merits replacement.

The thing I wouldn't do is say: "It was a tough year. Sometimes the ball doesn't bounce your way. You did the best you could. You recognize that you made mistatkes. Next year the guy in New Jersey will be healthy and our sales people will be more experienced and more competent. Good job. See you this time next year. Here's your Christmas bonus."

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2016/01/18/offense-struggled-adapt-without-nelson/78965990/

M3 delegates. Sure, it's his company, but it's the responsibility of the managers he hired to address those needs (e.g. gameplan to help the LT). When that isn't what happened, heads will roll and those that don't roll are put on notice.

He had some strong words for the structure and promised to fix it.

Those expecting M3 to personally fix everything on offense I think are a bit overzealous. My CEO doesn't come talk to me or my manager when something goes wrong. He hires people he expects to competently manage anything that comes up.

Gash lost his job because of this. Possibly Fontenot too (I'm guessing due to his part of the game planning--pure speculation). And Bennett and Clements? Probably got the message loud and clear.

But M3 isn't going to stand in front of the media and point fingers for structural failure. He knows the buck stops with him, and that's why he does take the blame for things that happen down the line.

pbmax

01-21-2016, 01:11 PM

Do we have evidence that McCarthy has changed things and straightened out problem issues year to year?

It was obvious year to year what Sherman was doing; fixing WRs (Walker), fixing ILBs (Nickerson), etc. He would announce it and then do it, regardless of tipping his hand, spending too much money or trading up in the draft. But he was GM so that stuff is easier to discern.

M3 has done longer term stuff; he fired his original D staff *, changed ST coaches, emphasized no turnovers, reduced penalties.

Shorter term stuff is not as obvious: he did encourage his coaches to literally go back to college to study new option offenses (talked to Sumlin, Aranda). I think Solari was hired to help both the run game and screen game (1/2 on those counts). They had red zone problems last year and there was evidence this year that they fixed part of it (I want to say they had another drought at one point this year though) and their 2 point conversions, which had not been good, were great this year. They went from ZBS to more Power stuff in a short time frame, especially with Lacy.

He has not been shy about adjusting his practice schedule or training methods.

Anyone got any other year over year changes to his approach?

* McGinn, after blasting Packers management and McCarthy for not having an immediate press conference and concluding that no one would ever trust them again, ha never acknowledged the wisdom of that move. He has also never acknowledged that it was one of the few times M3 has hired the type of Assistant McGinn loved to load into the mortar and throw Stadium walls; an experienced guy who has coached the position before and had great success.

mraynrand

01-21-2016, 01:24 PM

^^^^ Vanilla Bob's linebackers didn't look so hot to me on Saturday night... let's see how they do against Cam and Co.

Maxie the Taxi

01-21-2016, 02:49 PM

M3 delegates. Sure, it's his company, but it's the responsibility of the managers he hired to address those needs (e.g. gameplan to help the LT). When that isn't what happened, heads will roll and those that don't roll are put on notice.

He had some strong words for the structure and promised to fix it.

Those expecting M3 to personally fix everything on offense I think are a bit overzealous. My CEO doesn't come talk to me or my manager when something goes wrong. He hires people he expects to competently manage anything that comes up.

Gash lost his job because of this. Possibly Fontenot too (I'm guessing due to his part of the game planning--pure speculation). And Bennett and Clements? Probably got the message loud and clear.

But M3 isn't going to stand in front of the media and point fingers for structural failure. He knows the buck stops with him, and that's why he does take the blame for things that happen down the line.

Strictly IMO, it all boils down to corporate culture and management style, whether the organization is large or small. In some sports organizations (Steinbrenner's Yankees, Jones' Cowboys, Davis' Raiders) the boss operates with an iron fist, management's delegated authority is kept on a short leash. Micromanagement is common. A headstrong manager/coach/player who butts head with his superior in reality butts heads with the boss who sets the tone. That headstrong employee is soon shown the door.

I think the GB Packers' organization is more as you describe. The board appoints a General Manager and a Head Coach. These appointees are given general directions, a large measure of autonomy and a long leash. Little fiefdoms develop. That becomes the culture. The General Manager and Head Coach appoint their staffs and give them a little fiefdom of their own with general direction, autonomy and a fairly long leash. When things go south, the organization relies heavily on the chain of command and individual appointees to straighten things out within their fiefdom. At the end of the year the organization evaluates itself and changes are quietly made to fiefdoms, personnel and structure. The entire system is designed to prevent or minimize major upheavals. The two most powerful guys at the top set the tone and the direction but not with a direct hand.

I don't know enough about it, but my impression is that the Packers devolved from the former system to the latter. Maybe all of professional football did and Jerry Jones' system is a dying breed. Are there teams that have a system somewhere between the extremes? Probably. All I know is that change for the better or for the worse in Green Bay is very slow and uncertain. That may be a good thing. However, it certainly is frustrating to a fan looking in.

Dallas fans have it easier. They don't have to wonder who's in charge or who's to blame when things go south. All they have to do is ask Jerry.

Bossman641

01-21-2016, 02:58 PM

Still not sure what he says here makes sense to me, especially the first paragraph:

Mainly because it sounds like he is saying two different things and Jordy didn't spend much time in the slot.

His explanation makes sense to me. It's the fact that they had no real counter that doesn't make sense. The middle is the easiest place to attack when a defense plays press. Shorter throws and if you guy getting free he realistically should have an easier time to break one long.

Jordy spent quite a bit of time in the slot in 2013 while Cobb was out. I can't remember how much time he spent there in 2014.

Smidgeon

01-21-2016, 04:27 PM

Strictly IMO, it all boils down to corporate culture and management style, whether the organization is large or small. In some sports organizations (Steinbrenner's Yankees, Jones' Cowboys, Davis' Raiders) the boss operates with an iron fist, management's delegated authority is kept on a short leash. Micromanagement is common. A headstrong manager/coach/player who butts head with his superior in reality butts heads with the boss who sets the tone. That headstrong employee is soon shown the door.

I think the GB Packers' organization is more as you describe. The board appoints a General Manager and a Head Coach. These appointees are given general directions, a large measure of autonomy and a long leash. Little fiefdoms develop. That becomes the culture. The General Manager and Head Coach appoint their staffs and give them a little fiefdom of their own with general direction, autonomy and a fairly long leash. When things go south, the organization relies heavily on the chain of command and individual appointees to straighten things out within their fiefdom. At the end of the year the organization evaluates itself and changes are quietly made to fiefdoms, personnel and structure. The entire system is designed to prevent or minimize major upheavals. The two most powerful guys at the top set the tone and the direction but not with a direct hand.

I don't know enough about it, but my impression is that the Packers devolved from the former system to the latter. Maybe all of professional football did and Jerry Jones' system is a dying breed. Are there teams that have a system somewhere between the extremes? Probably. All I know is that change for the better or for the worse in Green Bay is very slow and uncertain. That may be a good thing. However, it certainly is frustrating to a fan looking in.

Dallas fans have it easier. They don't have to wonder who's in charge or who's to blame when things go south. All they have to do is ask Jerry.

Good analysis.