Here come the articles about replacing McCarthy

[Patler]

Didn't even take a day.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/is-mike-mccarthy-to-blame-for-packers-playoff-failures-b99651946z1-365591411.html

Interesting fact found in the article:


Incredibly, five of McCarthy's seven playoff defeats occurred on the final play of the game.

D'Amato asks this question:

And you have to ask yourself: How many Super Bowls would Bill Belichick have won with this team over the last 10 years?

I would answer with another question: how many did BB win with his own teams from from 2005 until last year, teams that had Tom Brady as their QB, teams that had even better records that MM's teams, including one that was 16-0. The answer is 0 until last year. Does D'Amato think the Packers have been better the past 10 years, or that Rodgers has been better than Brady?

People act like Belichick wins the SB every other year.

[George Cumby]

And who is the Sage they propose we replace him with?

He's frustrating for sure but we are lucky to have him.

[Rastak]

Is it possible to get defeated before the final play of a game?

[woodbuck27]

We all must somehow .....LOVE Mike McCarthy in spite of his anal dysfunction. A common affliction that a keen 'win first' fan, cannot help but see in MM; unless your itching too much because of your ' Homer - ism Rash'.

[Joemailman]

Since McCarthy became head coach, only Tom Coughlin has won 2 Super Bowls. And he had to miss the playoffs 4 consecutive years before being shown the door.

[red]

And who is the Sage they propose we replace him with?

He's frustrating for sure but we are lucky to have him.

who the hell was mike mccarthy before we signed him?

an average OC that no one wanted

theres a ton of guys out there, the next great coach might be someone you never heard of before he signs for us

[woodbuck27]

Is it possible to get defeated before the final play of a game?

CAUTION Rastak:

Thinking too hard about .....that ......may destroy brain cells.

OK.....I'll chance that........Is this the correct response?

NOPE.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Stubby has been head coach here for 10 years. His record should count for something. On the other hand, his tenure doesn't take replacing him off the table. In fact, some would say if a head coach is 10 years in his position, he's getting stale and the team needs a change. He's not bullet-proof. There are things he does well, but he's got weaknesses, his game management, conservative tendencies and late playoff collapses to name a few. Plus, he's made some questionable staff moves this year. Discussion is legitimate.

[mraynrand]

People act like Belichick wins the SB every other year.

A good coach wins the Superbowl every year. Stubby is not a good coach.

[woodbuck27]

Stubby has been head coach here for 10 years. His record should count for something. On the other hand, his tenure doesn't take replacing him off the table. In fact, some would say if a head coach is 10 years in his position, he's getting stale and the team needs a change. He's not bullet-proof. There are things he does well, but he's got weaknesses, his game management, conservative tendencies and late playoff collapses to name a few. Plus, he's made some questionable staff moves this year. Discussion is legitimate.

Your observations are bang on.

You nailed it.

[mraynrand]

who the hell was mike mccarthy before we signed him?

an average OC that no one wanted

theres a ton of guys out there, the next great coach might be someone you never heard of before he signs for us

Like Ben McAdoo!

[denverYooper]

I don't think M3 (or anyone) is in the same stratosphere as Bellichick but he gets the Packers in the conversation every year. Both last year and this, they went into their last games as underdogs and played those teams right down to the wire. Green Bay and Seattle have been playoff constants for the last 5 years and probably for at least the next 3 years, with Minnesota and Carolina threatening to take a position as perennial contenders. All of the other NFC teams have entered and left.

Rodgers and M3 have at least one more Superbowl before they are done. 1 year where Shields (or other DB) makes those gimme INTs, 1 year where Palmer (or other previous hot team) has that pass bounce harmlessly away, 1 year where they secure the onside kick, 1 year where they get the bounce they need to live and win. That only happens when they keep putting themselves in position for those things to happen. Keep flipping the coin and eventually you get heads a few times in a row. That's what the modern playoffs come down to for good teams.

[Patler]

If MM has gotten stale, has lost his passion, or has lost control/respect in the locker room, replacing him should be immediate. I have never been of the opinion that anyone is untouchable, including TT, MM, Favre or Rodgers. But all things are dependent. Replacing any of them can result in so much worse that you have to have a reason to do so.

Favre was on the block because there was good reason to think/hope that AR could carry on for the long term, and Favre's career was winding down..
Rodgers can be put on the trade block if Hundley or someone else shows the same potential, not necessarily to be just as good as Rodgers ever was, but to be as good as needed for the team to be successful at a time when Rodgers career is winding down.

For GMs and HCs, its not as easy. There isn't usually anyone waiting in the wings, prepped to take over. With GMs and HCs who have had success, you replace them if and when it appears the future looks less bright under their leadership than the past has been.

MM seemed to realize some things needed to change last year. He made a lot of changes in the off season. The only ones that seemed to work were with respect to Special Teams. To me, his willingness to make the changes was significant. For that reason, I am willing to let him try again.

[mraynrand]

Bellichick is in the conversation for greatest NFL coach of all time. That's pretty exclusive territory. If that's your standard, no one matches up. 31 teams wish they had that. And as I said before, 28 probably wish they had what the Packers have.

So the real conversation is how can Stubby/Packers improve. I think you need fresh blood, but a little higher up. An outside OC would be interesting. If everyone who can counter Stubby has been brought up in the organization, they are less likely to disagree with him. Solaris might be interesting if they let Bennett test the waters...

Wonder if at 62, Clements is pretty much out of the advancement running. Maybe his best destiny is to be a QB coach - but can he go back to it in GB without being humiliated?

[mraynrand]

MM seemed to realize some things needed to change last year. He made a lot of changes in the off season. The only ones that seemed to work were with respect to Special Teams. To me, his willingness to make the changes was significant. For that reason, I am willing to let him try again.

You start drawing up the contract extension, and I'll make sure he meets with you tomorrow.

[run pMc]

McCarthy is a good coach. It would be foolish to dump him IMO, unless there's something really egregious he's done, or he's lost the locker room. I don't think either of those is the case.

[mraynrand]

Keep flipping the coin and eventually you get heads a few times in a row.

That's what the refs do when the Packers call 'tails'

[pbmax]

who the hell was mike mccarthy before we signed him?

an average OC that no one wanted

theres a ton of guys out there, the next great coach might be someone you never heard of before he signs for us

There are. Here is such a list from 2006:

Buffalo Bills – Dick Jauron; replaced Mike Mularkey, who resigned after the 2005 season
Detroit Lions – Rod Marinelli; replaced interim head coach Dick Jauron who replaced Steve Mariucci who was fired following Thanksgiving Day during the 2005 season.
Green Bay Packers – Mike McCarthy; replaced Mike Sherman
Houston Texans – Gary Kubiak; replaced Dom Capers
Kansas City Chiefs – Herman Edwards; replaced Dick Vermeil who retired following the 2005 season
Minnesota Vikings – Brad Childress; replaced Mike Tice
New Orleans Saints – Sean Payton; replaced Jim Haslett
New York Jets – Eric Mangini; replaced Herman Edwards
Oakland Raiders – Art Shell; replaced Norv Turner
St. Louis Rams – Scott Linehan;

2 out of 10 succeeded. You could, though I would not, add in Kubiak given his success in Denver. But that seems kinda stopgap to me.

[pbmax]

If I have one criticism of Ted, its not FA. Its a comment of his from a long time ago and reaffirmed last year that the coaching staff was McCarthy's purview and Ted did not like to meddle. It is belied a bit by the GM admitting he had his hand in helping hire Assistant Coaches in 2006.

Messing with the Assistant Coaches in an ongoing regime is dangerous because it can set the organization against itself. But Thompson should, if he is not, set improvement standards in certain areas with heads rolling if those improvements aren't forthcoming.

He may have done so in regard to Defensive coaches after 2008. He might have do so with ST two years ago (hence the subsequent Slocum firing a year later) and possibly last year regarding game management.

I would love Ted to step in and demand better results from WR this offseason.

[call_me_ishmael]

who the hell was mike mccarthy before we signed him?

an average OC that no one wanted

theres a ton of guys out there, the next great coach might be someone you never heard of before he signs for us

Sure, but what are the odds we find someone better than MM? Low in my opinion, given I view him as a top 5 coach in a 30 team league. What, exactly, what the coaching problem this season? Sure, we under performed a bit in the regular season, but do you think the end result would be any different if we didn't?

Did the team not come in insanely well prepared and play tough against a tremendous team? I thought MM coached his ass off for this one.

[George Cumby]

who the hell was mike mccarthy before we signed him?

an average OC that no one wanted

theres a ton of guys out there, the next great coach might be someone you never heard of before he signs for us

Solid points all. But it is never a sure thing on these hires. Is your next choice another McCarthy or the next Rich Kotite? Predicting who hits their level of incompetence where is imprecise.

If this team was 6-10 and missed the playoffs 2-3 years in a row, then you can M3, no doubt.

But they are perennially playoff bound, the players still play hard, generally. Gambling on an unknown quantity when the known quantity gets us to the playoffs every year is unwise, IMO.

[beveaux1]

The Eagles under Andy Reid was an example of a coach that took his team to the playoffs year after year. They made it to the Super Bowl one time and had 3 losing seasons between 1999 and 2012. One of those was his first season and one was his last season. He was fired and immediately found employment with Kansas City where he's been to the playoffs the last two years. How did that work out for the Eagles?

McCarthy has made the playoffs 7 straight years, and has had one losing season. He has one Super Bowl appearance as well as 3 NFC championship game appearances. His record is rivaled only by Belichik, although Reid, Harbaugh, Tomlin, and Carroll are probably considered coaches on his level.

My opinion would be that every coach is one season away from losing their job, but I believe we've got one of the good ones and we would be hard pressed to find another that could equal his success.

[mraynrand]

Sure, but what are the odds we find someone better than MM? Low in my opinion, given I view him as a top 5 coach in a 30 team league. What, exactly, what the coaching problem this season? Sure, we under performed a bit in the regular season, but do you think the end result would be any different if we didn't?

Did the team not come in insanely well prepared and play tough against a tremendous team? I thought MM coached his ass off for this one.

I agree. I thought the team last night was as well prepared as any I've ever seen. They had a great game plan and almost pulled it off. I still wish Stubby would have gone for 2.

[Rutnstrut]

It's no secret that stubby is not my favorite. That said I don't think they would be any better off without him. He definitely needs some better tools to do his job with, both players and coaches.

[George Cumby]

Right. Streamline the offensive side of things. Get more speed on both sides of the ball and we are good to go.

Oh, and get Aaron's head right.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Hard to be on McCarthy after last night's game. Almost everybody thought they'd get beat, even moreso after Cobb got injured in the first quarter. If Shields makes that last pick or Peppers doesn't decide to vacate his zone in OT, we'd likely be talking about what a phenomenal job McCarthy did with the team at the end. Quite honestly, the coaching changes didn't work--except with special teams (but mostly because of better players). McCarthy needs to go back to the drawing board. Worry less about advancing his coaches career and put them back to where they are most effective.

[Joemailman]

Hard to be on McCarthy after last night's game. Almost everybody thought they'd get beat, even moreso after Cobb got injured in the first quarter. If Shields makes that last pick or Peppers doesn't decide to vacate his zone in OT, we'd likely be talking about what a phenomenal job McCarthy did with the team at the end. Quite honestly, the coaching changes didn't work--except with special teams (but mostly because of better players). McCarthy needs to go back to the drawing board. Worry less about advancing his coaches career and put them back to where they are most effective.

To me, this is the biggest question of the offseason. Can he basically give his coaches a demotion without the coaches losing respect in the eyes of the players? Or does he need to put together an entirely new offensive staff if he wants to make changes? Can he just turn back the clock, or does he need a new clock?

[King Friday]

Firing McCarthy would be as dumb a decision as picking Mandarich over Sanders. Sure, Stubby ain't the best coach in the NFL...but he's a hell of a lot closer to it than most other teams have. He more or less got the special teams fixed this year...took him way too long, but he got it done. He did the smart thing giving the defense to Capers and leaving him the hell alone...again, Capers ain't the best DC in the league but he's better than average and changing schemes every 3 years just for the sake of it is fruitless.

I have yet to hear any of the "Fire McCarthy" guys give any concrete examples of who would take up the mantle and lead us to 5 consecutive titles. When Chip Kelly is one of the bigger names available at this point, there is NO WAY IN FUCKING HELL you replace McCarthy.

[th87]

I don't want MM fired, but for those of you citing Andy Reid and the like forget that we have the best QB in the NFL. Pretty much any okay coach can be successful with him (see the Jim Mora, Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell succession).

The bigger problem is TT's inexplicable unwillingness to fill those final roster holes, which then bite us in the ass. The perplexing thing is that he's great otherwise. But this year, a TE worth anything would've opened things up considerably, and maybe we have HFA then. ILB held us back last year. Year before was S. Before that, OLB.

I wonder if Wolf/Schneider can draft as well?

[wpony]

This question is more about Capers he is the coach I am really not sold on, the question I have coming into the end of the 3 or beging the 4th quarter he always starts playing loose which allows the other teams to start catching us unless one of our guys makes a fantastic play and gets a take away but seams every time he starts playing loose so early they come back and either beat us or make us really turn it back on at the end of the 4th just to get a chance at holding on to a game we could have wraped up early , So my question really is I guess doses he do it on purpose because are guys are out of shape and cant make it through 4 quarters or Capers brain is fried and cant stay focused for 4 quarters?

[th87]

Didn't even take a day.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/is-mike-mccarthy-to-blame-for-packers-playoff-failures-b99651946z1-365591411.html

Interesting fact found in the article:


D'Amato asks this question:


I would answer with another question: how many did BB win with his own teams from from 2005 until last year, teams that had Tom Brady as their QB, teams that had even better records that MM's teams, including one that was 16-0. The answer is 0 until last year. Does D'Amato think the Packers have been better the past 10 years, or that Rodgers has been better than Brady?

People act like Belichick wins the SB every other year.

Comparing BB and MM is like Michael Jordan to James Harden.

Right before your arbitrary cutoff point, BB had won 3 of the previous 4 SBs, so he already had some leeway. He then followed it with an AFCCG appearance two years later, and an undefeated season/SB appearance the following year, which was only derailed by a miraculous helmet catch. The following year, Brady was lost for the season, and two years after that, another SB appearance with another miracle catch derailing it. This was then followed by consecutive AFCCG appearances, a SB victory, and now another AFCCG appearance (at least).

It is absurd to even put that in the same sentence as an NFCCG appearance, a SB victory three years later, and an NFCCG appearance 4 years later, and that's it. Tom Coughlin has a more impressive resume with a doofus at QB.

[mraynrand]

I don't want MM fired, but for those of you citing Andy Reid and the like forget that we have the best QB in the NFL. Pretty much any okay coach can be successful with him (see the Jim Mora, Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell succession).

Except that's a chicken/egg kinda deal. Is Rodgers this great QB that just dropped into Stubby's lap, or did Stubby have a lot to do with his development and success, especially considering offensive design? I believe the latter. Maybe Rodgers is such a hard driver that he would have been successful anywhere, but maybe elsewhere he doesn't correct his Tedford mechanics, doesn't get a good scheme/good coaching and flames out. We'll never know, and we'll only know more about Stubby if he sticks around long enough to develop and trot out the next guy.

[mraynrand]

Comparing BB and MM is like Michael Jordan to James Harden.

Right before your arbitrary cutoff point, BB had won 3 of the previous 4 SBs, so he already had some leeway. He then followed it with an AFCCG appearance two years later, and an undefeated season/SB appearance the following year, which was only derailed by a miraculous helmet catch. The following year, Brady was lost for the season, and two years after that, another SB appearance with another miracle catch derailing it. This was then followed by consecutive AFCCG appearances, a SB victory, and now another AFCCG appearance (at least).

It is absurd to even put that in the same sentence as an NFCCG appearance, a SB victory three years later, and an NFCCG appearance 4 years later, and that's it. Tom Coughlin has a more impressive resume with a doofus at QB.

Coughlin's resume overall really isn't great compared to Stubby, except for the two head-to-head playoff wins.

I'll say it again, if your requirement for Stubby is that he be the best coach in the history of the league, or he's dead to you, you're likely to be disappointed.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Sure, but what are the odds we find someone better than MM? Low in my opinion, given I view him as a top 5 coach in a 30 team league. What, exactly, what the coaching problem this season? Sure, we under performed a bit in the regular season, but do you think the end result would be any different if we didn't?

Did the team not come in insanely well prepared and play tough against a tremendous team? I thought MM coached his ass off for this one.

Except for the 2 point call....

[George Cumby]

^ one of which involved the brain dead hill billy tanking the game.

[ThunderDan]

Is it possible to get defeated before the final play of a game?

Yes, they are talking about walk-off victories. Last play of the game the opponent scores and the game is over.

[Patler]

Except that's a chicken/egg kinda deal. Is Rodgers this great QB that just dropped into Stubby's lap, or did Stubby have a lot to do with his development and success, especially considering offensive design? I believe the latter. Maybe Rodgers is such a hard driver that he would have been successful anywhere, but maybe elsewhere he doesn't correct his Tedford mechanics, doesn't get a good scheme/good coaching and flames out. We'll never know, and we'll only know more about Stubby if he sticks around long enough to develop and trot out the next guy.

Matt Flynn's success in GB and complete flame out everywhere else supports your analysis. Now some will counter with arguments that Flynn: a) never had a chance in some of his stops and/or b) was injured. Don't really know for sure which it is, but if Hundley becomes Rodgers II we will have still more info to consider.

[George Cumby]

Had AR been drafted by the Niners instead of Alex Smith how would he have fared? Not nearly so well. That time as 4's understudy was critical to his development.

[call_me_ishmael]

Patler, you have a very apt take on this article. Great point with BB.

[woodbuck27]

Except for the 2 point call....

It's again right there....it's entirely unrealistic to ignore this opportunity that was clearly in MM's grasp to realize as a great shot to win that game and he again...elected the easy way..and a tie and all that goes in terms of the unknown and added pressure of OT.

He again as the Packer HC (called a play) that ignored a tremendous advantage and opportunity.

He coughed up 'the CHOKE'.

AS a result again...'in the BIG Game' he was 'the LOSER'.

By the popular consensus of this board....I humbly submit:

Let's 'just go' with MM and that.

[mraynrand]

^^^ I disagree. It's not a choke to play for OT.

[Striker]

You can't dump MM after this season. They're not too far off, though there should be some urgency/heat under his seat that they need to have a better year in 2016. Especially since we'll be back at full strength and playing a 2nd place schedule (which on paper looks stupid simple).

[mraynrand]

You can't dump MM after this season. They're not too far off, though there should be some urgency/heat under his seat that they need to have a better year in 2016. Especially since we'll be back at full strength and playing a 2nd place schedule (which on paper looks stupid simple).

the difference is we play Seattle and Atlanta instead of Arizona and Carolina. Right now that sure looks better...

[Striker]

the difference is we play Seattle and Atlanta instead of Arizona and Carolina. Right now that sure looks better...

And we get Seattle at home again, which is good. Maybe we'll get them in some -5 degree game. Before they have to go home and then cross country for one of their 3 east coast trips.

[woodbuck27]

^^^ I disagree. It's not a choke to play for OT.

Of course you would.

[Fritz]

I don't think M3 (or anyone) is in the same stratosphere as Bellichick but he gets the Packers in the conversation every year. Both last year and this, they went into their last games as underdogs and played those teams right down to the wire. Green Bay and Seattle have been playoff constants for the last 5 years and probably for at least the next 3 years, with Minnesota and Carolina threatening to take a position as perennial contenders. All of the other NFC teams have entered and left.

Rodgers and M3 have at least one more Superbowl before they are done. 1 year where Shields (or other DB) makes those gimme INTs, 1 year where Palmer (or other previous hot team) has that pass bounce harmlessly away, 1 year where they secure the onside kick, 1 year where they get the bounce they need to live and win. That only happens when they keep putting themselves in position for those things to happen. Keep flipping the coin and eventually you get heads a few times in a row. That's what the modern playoffs come down to for good teams.


To me, this is it. If you have a GM that can put a team on the field that gets into the playoffs nearly every year, and a coach who has control of the locker room and gets his teams to play well in the playoffs, you have a shot every year - but having a shot is no guarantee.

I work with a guy who is a Steelers fan, and another who's a Seahawks fan. Both of them are saying the exact same thing today that I'm saying: "If only THIS had happened! If only THAT had not happened!" We're all doing it.

This tells me that any team that gets into the playoffs can win it any year. There's skill and preparation, sure, but at this level, you're getting that if you're in the playoffs. There's one bad bounce, one dropped interception (oh, Sam Shields!), one injury - frankly, there is luck involved if you win a SB.

The coaches and GM's who can't get their teams into the dance consistently are the ones who usually need to be replaced.

Agreed, if MM has lost the locker room, or has gotten stale in his thinking about the game, then you'd look into it. But to me, talk of firing him or TT is stupid talk.

[Joemailman]

Agreed, if MM has lost the locker room, or has gotten stale in his thinking about the game, then you'd look into it. But to me, talk of firing him or TT is stupid talk.

This may have been what happened to Tom Coughlin. MM certainly hasn't lost the locker room. If he had, you wouldn't have seen the team take Arizona to overtime 3 weeks after getting pummeled by them. The issue of whether his offense has gotten stale is a legitimate one, as is his relationship with his QB.

[Fritz]

I think we'll see next year of the offense has gotten stale. He'll - I hope - have a full stable of receivers, including Montgomery, and I think Adams will be just fine, too.

[woodbuck27]

To me, this is it. If you have a GM that can put a team on the field that gets into the playoffs nearly every year, and a coach who has control of the locker room and gets his teams to play well in the playoffs, you have a shot every year - but having a shot is no guarantee.

I work with a guy who is a Steelers fan, and another who's a Seahawks fan. Both of them are saying the exact same thing today that I'm saying: "If only THIS had happened! If only THAT had not happened!" We're all doing it.

This tells me that any team that gets into the playoffs can win it any year. There's skill and preparation, sure, but at this level, you're getting that if you're in the playoffs. There's one bad bounce, one dropped interception (oh, Sam Shields!), one injury - frankly, there is luck involved if you win a SB.

The coaches and GM's who can't get their teams into the dance consistently are the ones who usually need to be replaced.

Agreed, if MM has lost the locker room, or has gotten stale in his thinking about the game, then you'd look into it. But to me, talk of firing him or TT is stupid talk.

Good post fritz...repped.

[Rutnstrut]

I think we'll see next year of the offense has gotten stale. He'll - I hope - have a full stable of receivers, including Montgomery, and I think Adams will be just fine, too.

Montgomery maybe, but I just don't think Adams is very good.

[Bossman641]

There's things I think MM could do better but there's no way you get rid of him now. Does anyone think our window won't be open next year? There is no way you get rid of him and take 1-2 years acquiring new players and getting the current players used to the scheme.

Ya I'm pissed off we haven't won any more SB's since 2010. I honestly thought that we would have taken 2-3 in a 5-6 year span. Thinking of all the what-ifs makes me sick (Collins and Finley suffering career enders, the injury to Jennings and 3 fumbles against the Giants in 2011). Even last year, which looked like it could and have been the year, was marred by Rodgers' injury and the collapse.

I think you just have to keep giving yourself shots and hope that injuries/bounces/luck come up on your side.

[texaspackerbacker]

To me, this is it. If you have a GM that can put a team on the field that gets into the playoffs nearly every year, and a coach who has control of the locker room and gets his teams to play well in the playoffs, you have a shot every year - but having a shot is no guarantee.

I work with a guy who is a Steelers fan, and another who's a Seahawks fan. Both of them are saying the exact same thing today that I'm saying: "If only THIS had happened! If only THAT had not happened!" We're all doing it.

This tells me that any team that gets into the playoffs can win it any year. There's skill and preparation, sure, but at this level, you're getting that if you're in the playoffs. There's one bad bounce, one dropped interception (oh, Sam Shields!), one injury - frankly, there is luck involved if you win a SB.

The coaches and GM's who can't get their teams into the dance consistently are the ones who usually need to be replaced.

Agreed, if MM has lost the locker room, or has gotten stale in his thinking about the game, then you'd look into it. But to me, talk of firing him or TT is stupid talk.

Until recently, I would have agreed. However, I am more and more coming to the conclusion that Thompson lucked into drafting Aaron Rodgers, and both he and McCarthy have been living fat off of that ever since. Arguably, Ted has failed to surround Rodgers with enough talent to maximize things, and McCarthy has done just enough to have good seasons and not win it all - despite having the great head start of such excellence at the most important position. And to make it worse - IMO anyway - he has succumbed to crap about going to a run-first offense, which is just plain stupid, given the chronically weak O Line and the QB with escapability in addition to great physical and mental ability as a passer.

I'm not quite to the point of advocating firing them, but it wouldn't break me up one bit if Thompson retired and McCarthy skipped to some other team - a la Gary Anderson.

[run pMc]

I think the D'Amato piece is just clickbait and to get the overemotional fans and M3 haters whipped up. He's a good coach, better than Sherman. If they canned him, he'd get hired in a minute. I'd take him over Doug Marrone or Ken Whisenhunt. As for the Belichick comparisons, BB is a good coach but there are so many controversies and asterisks around how they play (Deflategate, Spygate, etc.) that a lot of non-Patriot fans see them as a dirty franchise. I'm glad (as far as we know) McCarthy and by extension GB doesn't have a reputation like that.

Unless you ask a Vikings fan. Many think the refs are biased against them and for GB. ;)

[pbmax]

No coach, even Belichick, is magic. You have to work with them to make them better. Belichick learned some brutal lessons with the Browns.

One of the only reasons I would consider getting rid of Ted earlier rather than later is if he doesn't think that helping that process along is a good idea.

[hoosier]

Until recently, I would have agreed. However, I am more and more coming to the conclusion that Thompson lucked into drafting Aaron Rodgers, and both he and McCarthy have been living fat off of that ever since. Arguably, Ted has failed to surround Rodgers with enough talent to maximize things, and McCarthy has done just enough to have good seasons and not win it all - despite having the great head start of such excellence at the most important position. And to make it worse - IMO anyway - he has succumbed to crap about going to a run-first offense, which is just plain stupid, given the chronically weak O Line and the QB with escapability in addition to great physical and mental ability as a passer.

I'm not quite to the point of advocating firing them, but it wouldn't break me up one bit if Thompson retired and McCarthy skipped to some other team - a la Gary Anderson.

Or you could say that, considering where the Packers usually pick in the draft order, TT has done a reasonably good job keeping the cupboards stocked over the years. He has found a few guys who have developed into gems (Jennings, Nelson, Sitton, Lang, Daniels, in addition to the two obvious ones) and a good number who contribute. Burnett, HaHa and the two rookie corners could emerge as the next generation of good picks.

If MM left we would almost certainly see a few years of decline while the roster gets reconfigured to suit the new coach's system. And then what? If you look around the NFL how many coaches can you honestly say you would rather have over MM? Five? Three? One?

[Fritz]

Until recently, I would have agreed. However, I am more and more coming to the conclusion that Thompson lucked into drafting Aaron Rodgers, and both he and McCarthy have been living fat off of that ever since. Arguably, Ted has failed to surround Rodgers with enough talent to maximize things, and McCarthy has done just enough to have good seasons and not win it all - despite having the great head start of such excellence at the most important position. And to make it worse - IMO anyway - he has succumbed to crap about going to a run-first offense, which is just plain stupid, given the chronically weak O Line and the QB with escapability in addition to great physical and mental ability as a passer.

I'm not quite to the point of advocating firing them, but it wouldn't break me up one bit if Thompson retired and McCarthy skipped to some other team - a la Gary Anderson.

Somebody kidnapped TPB. Who the heck are you? You were a fierce defender of Packerdom, but it looks like last year's loss has caused you to change your views.

Which is fine.

I like anyone who is willing to change his or her opinion in the face of new information.

[Pugger]

This may have been what happened to Tom Coughlin. MM certainly hasn't lost the locker room. If he had, you wouldn't have seen the team take Arizona to overtime 3 weeks after getting pummeled by them. The issue of whether his offense has gotten stale is a legitimate one, as is his relationship with his QB.

I don't think his relationship with Aaron was ever in question except by media types looking for a story. His offense works when the guys execute. They moved the ball against a top D like AZ and lit up the scoreboard against Washington.

[Pugger]

Montgomery maybe, but I just don't think Adams is very good.

Against Washington Adams began to resemble the kid we saw in the 2014 playoffs until he hurt his knee. I'm not ready to call him a bust just yet.

[Pugger]

Until recently, I would have agreed. However, I am more and more coming to the conclusion that Thompson lucked into drafting Aaron Rodgers, and both he and McCarthy have been living fat off of that ever since. Arguably, Ted has failed to surround Rodgers with enough talent to maximize things, and McCarthy has done just enough to have good seasons and not win it all - despite having the great head start of such excellence at the most important position. And to make it worse - IMO anyway - he has succumbed to crap about going to a run-first offense, which is just plain stupid, given the chronically weak O Line and the QB with escapability in addition to great physical and mental ability as a passer.

I'm not quite to the point of advocating firing them, but it wouldn't break me up one bit if Thompson retired and McCarthy skipped to some other team - a la Gary Anderson.

If we go in another direction with new coach unless he runs a WC offense like Bossman said, it will take the team a couple more years to adjust and Rodgers isn't getting any younger.

[Pugger]

If I have one criticism of Ted, its not FA. Its a comment of his from a long time ago and reaffirmed last year that the coaching staff was McCarthy's purview and Ted did not like to meddle. It is belied a bit by the GM admitting he had his hand in helping hire Assistant Coaches in 2006.

Messing with the Assistant Coaches in an ongoing regime is dangerous because it can set the organization against itself. But Thompson should, if he is not, set improvement standards in certain areas with heads rolling if those improvements aren't forthcoming.

He may have done so in regard to Defensive coaches after 2008. He might have do so with ST two years ago (hence the subsequent Slocum firing a year later) and possibly last year regarding game management.

I would love Ted to step in and demand better results from WR this offseason.

I believe Ted is consulted about assistant hiring but he leaves the final decision to Mike.

[ThunderDan]

It is funny we have a couple of camps who want MM gone. One says he runs to much and doesn't use his MVP QB. One says we abandon our running game and pass too much.

You can't please everyone!

[Pugger]

I don't want MM fired, but for those of you citing Andy Reid and the like forget that we have the best QB in the NFL. Pretty much any okay coach can be successful with him (see the Jim Mora, Tony Dungy, Jim Caldwell succession).

The bigger problem is TT's inexplicable unwillingness to fill those final roster holes, which then bite us in the ass. The perplexing thing is that he's great otherwise. But this year, a TE worth anything would've opened things up considerably, and maybe we have HFA then. ILB held us back last year. Year before was S. Before that, OLB.

I wonder if Wolf/Schneider can draft as well?

Was Belichick successful without Brady?

[Pugger]

^^^ I disagree. It's not a choke to play for OT.

All of you bemoaning the fact we didn't go for 2 all assume we'll make it and win the game.

[Maxie the Taxi]

All of you bemoaning the fact we didn't go for 2 all assume we'll make it and win the game.Either you're trying to antagonize, or you really don't get it. We all are aware of the odds of success. We're simply willing to take our chances on those odds. I didn't assume anything.

[woodbuck27]

Then you get this side of MM !

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/insidersblog/2016/01/17/mccarthy-calls-confusing-catch-rule-ridiculous/78939556/


McCarthy:Confusing catch rule 'ridiculous'

By: Ryan Wood, USA TODAY NETWORK-Wisconsin 7 p.m. EST January 17, 2016

I'm never sure if I want to laugh...cry or scream at his play calling?

The 3rd down plays and the unnerving Time Out calls is certainly something that then Team needs to see lessened next season. I'm hoping that was too often the case because they so often didn't have confidence.

Confidence and that often down. Why?

Maybe we're back to Aaron Rodgers and being over cautious...too much needing to be 'the perfectionist?

Maybe it's just a combination of poor 'not on the same page' or dissension between MM and ARod?...I can't tell and there's no way this is truthfully revealed to the media. The reporters can dig it out for us. They likely will take it to the facts or stab at it in the dark. Usually you throw enough wet mud on a wall and some of it is sure to stick.

Vince Lombardi is somewhere thinking:

What in HELL is going on around here!???

Vince .......Please ....May the Spirit of your Powers to.... BE THE 'WINNER' to have compassion on us....reveal enlightenment on the majority of us.

Help get us on the same page.

[woodbuck27]

Members here 'of course' know that:

MM just signed a four-year extension after last season. It shouldn't be expected that he's going ...anywhere.

Now given that:

Unless MM decides on an opportunity elsewhere and TT loves him and won't let him go easily. I view MM is a distraction from TT. Why? Because he sometimes plainly looks bad.

He'll more than likely set his sights on 15 years and a Green Bay Packer Head Coach. He's just getting started. his job is more than secure. He's LOCKED IN.

Long Live Mike McCarthy as Packer HC.

Might as well join Em !? LOL

[mraynrand]

Either you're trying to antagonize, or you really don't get it. We all are aware of the odds of success. We're simply willing to take our chances on those odds. I didn't assume anything.

+1. I just thought the odds were better.



However, in retrospect, given a choice between losing the way they did in OT, and losing on a defensed 2 point attempt, I much prefer the latter.

[mraynrand]

MM just signed a four-year extension after last season

And boy has he extended. At least they are happy over at The Golden Corral.

[red]

Members here 'of course' know that:

MM just signed a four-year extension after last season. It shouldn't be expected that he's going ...anywhere.

Now given that:

Unless MM decides on an opportunity elsewhere and TT loves him and won't let him go easily. I view MM is a distraction from TT. Why? Because he sometimes plainly looks bad.

He'll more than likely set his sights on 15 years and a Green Bay Packer Head Coach. He's just getting started. his job is more than secure. He's LOCKED IN.

Long Live Mike McCarthy as Packer HC.

Might as well join Em !? LOL

extensions mean absolutely noting for coaches

m2 got canned after the first year of his extension

and like M3 people said he could never leave because he was a winning coach. i remember i think back on JSO people just throwing shit fits when he got canned because of his record

he never got another head coaching gig in the nfl, got fired has a college coach, and is now coaching pewee ball or some shit

BECAUSE HE SUCKED AS A COACH AND ONLY WON BECAUSE OF HIS HOF QB!!!!!!!

[mraynrand]

^^^^ Find one coach who hasn't been fired. Shermy had one good year at Texas A&M, but his QB threw too many INTs :)

[pbmax]

extensions mean absolutely noting for coaches

m2 got canned after the first year of his extension

and like M3 people said he could never leave because he was a winning coach. i remember i think back on JSO people just throwing shit fits when he got canned because of his record

he never got another head coaching gig in the nfl, got fired has a college coach, and is now coaching pewee ball or some shit

BECAUSE HE SUCKED AS A COACH AND ONLY WON BECAUSE OF HIS HOF QB!!!!!!!

Well, he never got to develop a HoF QB unless you think Craig Nall was robbed.

But he was an above average coach. I think he should have gotten another shot, but after being GM, getting another shot would require either explicitly retreating from a desire to control personnel or chasing only jobs that offered it. Puts him in an awkward position.

I do think, unlike M3, that his emotional approach with players did wear itself out after a time.

[red]

^^^^ Find one coach who hasn't been fired. Shermy had one good year at Texas A&M, but his QB threw too many INTs :)

mike fucking mccarthy smart ass

at least not yet anyways

[red]

Well, he never got to develop a HoF QB unless you think Craig Nall was robbed.

But he was an above average coach. I think he should have gotten another shot, but after being GM, getting another shot would require either explicitly retreating from a desire to control personnel or chasing only jobs that offered it. Puts him in an awkward position.

I do think, unlike M3, that his emotional approach with players did wear itself out after a time.

that makes no sense because the only job he got after being canned in green bay was as an OC with the texans (his offence finished 14th)
and he was also an OC in miami but was fired after 2 seasons, even though the team had drafted his QB from a & m

OC is a much bigger demotion then just HC without being GM

and at A&M he was an awesome .500 coach for 3 years

maybe he didn't get another shot at being a head coach in the NFL because people just didn't think he was a very good coach?

[Upnorth]

While MM is not the best coach in the league, at least 16 teams would see him as an upgrade. So we have at least an above average coach. I wanted to fire him yesterday. NOt so much today. However we do need some new route concepts to help get slow wr's open.

[pbmax]

Well, if you need to step down two levels to get a job, that doesn't make you a more attractive candidate, that we can agree.

But I still think some teams don't want to hire a possible future replacement for the person currently making decisions. If you are the GM or HC of a struggling team, do you want to put your possible replacement on the current roster of coaches?

It could be that leaving for college represented Sherm realizing he wasn't going to get a second chance, but he is also very loyal, so following in RC Slocum's footsteps might have mattered more.

Regardless, still think he was an above average coach and the fact that 20 struggling franchises made another in a long line of bad decisions doesn't change my opinion of him. I did not want him to continue with the Packers for many reasons, but his basic competency as a HC wasn't the issue.


*When Slocum gets auto corrected, it changes to Slouch.

[mraynrand]

mike fucking mccarthy smart ass

at least not yet anyways

he's been fired from lower jobs, but you're right, he's golden as the head man. Must be doing something right :)

[mraynrand]

maybe he didn't get another shot at being a head coach in the NFL because people just didn't think he was a very good coach?

Sure. Why would you bring in the guy who was torpedoed twice from GB, and was .500 at A&M? That's not the guy who is gonna get you a championship. Shermy was a good coach for GB though.Worse than Holmy, Stubby, Lombardi, and Curly for sure, but better than a lot of others. Hey, maybe he's just kinda average.

[ThunderDan]

Well, if you need to step down two levels to get a job, that doesn't make you a more attractive candidate, that we can agree.

But I still think some teams don't want to hire a possible future replacement for the person currently making decisions. If you are the GM or HC of a struggling team, do you want to put your possible replacement on the current roster of coaches?

It could be that leaving for college represented Sherm realizing he wasn't going to get a second chance, but he is also very loyal, so following in RC Slocum's footsteps might have mattered more.

Regardless, still think he was an above average coach and the fact that 20 struggling franchises made another in a long line of bad decisions doesn't change my opinion of him. I did not want him to continue with the Packers for many reasons, but his basic competency as a HC wasn't the issue.


*When Slocum gets auto corrected, it changes to Slouch.


I liked Sherman the coach and thought he was doing a good job.

But Sherman the GM left him with the cupboard bare. Too many reaches to file holes that didn't work. Trading up to grab a punter who couldn't out kick the guy who use to be a bartender. Keeping two punters on the roster because he was afraid of losing his punter who couldn't beat out the bartender.

I think at one time there were only 3 players on the roster of year 4-8 vets from Sherman's time as GM once TT took over. It was Wells and a couple other. It was horrible.

[beveaux1]

Saw another article that addresses D'Amato's article. http://thebiglead.com/2016/01/18/no-mike-mccarthy-wasnt-to-blame-for-the-devastating-packers-loss/

[wpony]

Like I stated in another thread I was very proud of how the packers pulled together this yr fought through the injuries and still played a great game against the cards of course we all wish the score card was reversed but cant have everything :) Like it has been stated there is so many teams out there that would love to have MM on there team coaching probably over 20 teams but I believe his bigist weakness his not getting rid of coachs under him even when they are not doing the job and let the team and fans suffer for a few yrs till he has no choice but to get rid of them

2. I know all the announcers out there are saying how good Dom Capers is ,maybe he is that good at drawing it up on the table but as soon as he gets it out there on the field and they start doing things with there offense that Dom wasnt ready for its like he goes right into that deer in the headlight stare or what even worse going into the 3rd quarter we haveeven a 10 point lead and we have to play them soft dont want them getting a easy touchdown there do we dom????????????????????????

3 . I just think we have a realy good head coach thats to good to his friends and needs thompson to come down to him and say you take care of your coachs mike make them work or I will have to be the one making changes.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Saw another article that addresses D'Amato's article. http://thebiglead.com/2016/01/18/no-mike-mccarthy-wasnt-to-blame-for-the-devastating-packers-loss/Glasspiegel misses the obvious point: the buck stops at Stubby's flat feet.

If the Pack had won, Stubby would have received all credit for getting his team ready to play and win against a home team with superior talent. Now that they lost, he must accept the lion's share of the blame. Period. He's in charge. He gets the heat.

And he can't deflect that heat by blaming his assistant coaches for faulty game plans or inexperienced players for not being prepared or inadequate playcallers for not being adequate or WR's for not having a coach dedicated to their position or for the offense wasting time outs and Eddie Lacy for being fat and Aaron Rodgers for not being comfortable with some WR's or WR for not getting open or injuries or bad ball bounces for disrupting his grand plan.

Glasspiegel says Stubby is not Belicheat. That's stating the obvious. But does that fact mean Stubby's methods are immune to criticism?

Results matter. That's another fact of life. Stubby himself has said since the beginning of the season that his goal is to be the best, to win the Super Bowl. Well, he didn't. And it's fair to ask: Why not? What went wrong?

[3irty1]

To be consistent with what I voted in the "TT, MM, Rodgers, Other" thread about why we suck, MM deserves the lion's share of this years misfortunes. Really more blame than even Capers could ever have deserved in any one of the recent seasons where the defense performed below expectations. This isn't just because he's an offensive-guru head coach, but because he's also the authority these players report to. We had multiple players regress this season and MM cultivates the culture where that kind of thing either happens or doesn't.

Perhaps there is a great coordinator out there who is the next HOF head coach, but to even interview them you'd have to commit to firing MM. The risk so thoroughly outweighs the potential reward that this would be a truly awful move. The risk is a team-stunting regime change every few years and the same kind of irrelevance that comes with that. There are 4 other acting head coaches right now I'd consider upgrades to MM and I don't even think I'd swap for them because they have their own risk factors and would come at the cost of continuity. He's not bullet-proof or beyond criticism but its just reactionary fan-rage to lose perspective and call for his head at this point.

[Maxie the Taxi]

To be consistent with what I voted in the "TT, MM, Rodgers, Other" thread about why we suck, MM deserves the lion's share of this years misfortunes. Really more blame than even Capers could ever have deserved in any one of the recent seasons where the defense performed below expectations. This isn't just because he's an offensive-guru head coach, but because he's also the authority these players report to. We had multiple players regress this season and MM cultivates the culture where that kind of thing either happens or doesn't.

Perhaps there is a great coordinator out there who is the next HOF head coach, but to even interview them you'd have to commit to firing MM. The risk so thoroughly outweighs the potential reward that this would be a truly awful move. The risk is a team-stunting regime change every few years and the same kind of irrelevance that comes with that. There are 4 other acting head coaches right now I'd consider upgrades to MM and I don't even think I'd swap for them because they have their own risk factors and would come at the cost of continuity. He's not bullet-proof or beyond criticism but its just reactionary fan-rage to lose perspective and call for his head at this point.

I don't disagree with you, but I hope the media keeps asking questions and applying the heat.

[esoxx]

^^^ Agree. Stubby merits some heat.

[woodbuck27]

^^^ Agree. Stubby merits some heat.

Unless you don't care about the immediate future of the Green Bay Packers.

GO PACK GO !

[texaspackerbacker]

Somebody kidnapped TPB. Who the heck are you? You were a fierce defender of Packerdom, but it looks like last year's loss has caused you to change your views.

Which is fine.

I like anyone who is willing to change his or her opinion in the face of new information.

What mind changing? I've always said Ted Thompson got lucky with Rodgers and has done a poor job of maximizing things. True, the list ticked off by Hoosier of successes in later rounds, but missing on so many #1 picks, just imagine where we could be with successes in place of even half of those failures - and most of those failures were predictable at the time of the draft in the eyes of a lot of people. As for McCarthy, yeah, I guess I've changed my mind there, but arguably, the change is with McCarthy himself. We won big time with an extreme Pass-First attack, even with a very porous defense. Imagine how unstoppable we would have been the Super Bowl year and the 15-1 year if we had a defense like now. Now, we have that defense, and what does McCarthy do? He yields to the people crying for more of a Run-First attack - wasting downs on doomed running plays with our weak O Line - and it got worse not better when he went back to calling the plays. So I would argue my opinion of him changed because he changed.

I really don't expect him to be fired, and I'm not quite to the point of wanting that. I will say, though, there is no definite reason why we would have a downturn with a new coach. What we have now in talent is pretty mediocre other than Aaron Rodgers; A new coach would still have Rodgers and arguably would make better use of him - but it ain't gonna happen, so there's no point in speculating.

Is that fierce enough for you, Fritz?

[Pugger]

I don't think Ted got lucky getting Rodgers. Most other GMs with a guy like Favre on their roster would have passed. If Aaron was a sure thing why did 23 other GMs pass on him too? He and his staff knew Rodgers wasn't going to contribute much to the success of the 2005 team. It was a ballsy move IMO. Ted was drafting for the future. I remember a lot of fans were very unhappy with this choice that day. In subsequent years we've been skunked with our high picks but a couple of our high picks became injury busts. Harrell was a mistake but I don't know if anyone could have foreseen Sherrod having his leg smashed like that.

[Fritz]

There is no doubt that luck is a part of this game, but you've got to apply that consistently on both sides of the argument. TT was lucky that Rodgers fell that far, though he ought to get lots of credit for taking him when he already had Brent Favre.

But luck is also a major piece of the equation when it comes to the games themselves. Carson Palmer got hit in the middle of the AZ game and the ball came out of his hands - but it bounced right back up to him and he fell on it. That's luck, too.

Randall makes a great play to stick his hand in front of a receiver at the goal line and deflect a ball. It goes up and into the arms of an Arizona receiver for the go-ahead touchdown. It could have easily popped up in a different direction, but it didn't. That's luck, too.

During one year San Fran kept their starting five offensive linemen healthy all year. That's mostly luck, too.

A team has to be very good but also very lucky to get to and win a Superbowl. You can't be just lucky - you have to be good. But you also have to be lucky.

Green Bay gets into the playoffs every year. They play tough most years in the playoffs. They've just missed. Some of that is on the head coach, sure. He needs to reevaluate as he is doing.

But you can't win the SB every year, or every other year. It's tough. If you don't win Employee of the Year every single year, does your boss fire you? No. If you own a business, and you make really good money doing so, so you fire your manager because he doesn't make a record amount every year? No.

McCarthy, like any professional, should be and is reevaluating the job he's done, and what he needs to do better and differently. He doesn't need to be fired.

[George Cumby]

Well said, Fritz.

[Pugger]

There is no doubt that luck is a part of this game, but you've got to apply that consistently on both sides of the argument. TT was lucky that Rodgers fell that far, though he ought to get lots of credit for taking him when he already had Brent Favre.

But luck is also a major piece of the equation when it comes to the games themselves. Carson Palmer got hit in the middle of the AZ game and the ball came out of his hands - but it bounced right back up to him and he fell on it. That's luck, too.

Randall makes a great play to stick his hand in front of a receiver at the goal line and deflect a ball. It goes up and into the arms of an Arizona receiver for the go-ahead touchdown. It could have easily popped up in a different direction, but it didn't. That's luck, too.

During one year San Fran kept their starting five offensive linemen healthy all year. That's mostly luck, too.

A team has to be very good but also very lucky to get to and win a Superbowl. You can't be just lucky - you have to be good. But you also have to be lucky.

Green Bay gets into the playoffs every year. They play tough most years in the playoffs. They've just missed. Some of that is on the head coach, sure. He needs to reevaluate as he is doing.

But you can't win the SB every year, or every other year. It's tough. If you don't win Employee of the Year every single year, does your boss fire you? No. If you own a business, and you make really good money doing so, so you fire your manager because he doesn't make a record amount every year? No.

McCarthy, like any professional, should be and is reevaluating the job he's done, and what he needs to do better and differently. He doesn't need to be fired.

this

[mraynrand]

If you don't win Employee of the Year every single year, does your boss fire you? No.

Just so long as 'Inanimate Carbon Rod' doesn't get chosen employee of the month before you, you're OK.

[esoxx]

^^^ D'oh!!!

[pbmax]

Any QB who is not one of the first two picks becoming an All-Pro is lucky.

But the GM who takes a shot at a guy at 24 when he has other needs and an All-Pro QB already on the squad is playing a long game and playing it well.

[red]

Just so long as 'Inanimate Carbon Rod' doesn't get chosen employee of the month before you, you're OK.

LOL

[Scott Campbell]

We had no business hanging around in that game without our top 4 receivers. That's a point for MM.

Getting so close without finishing the deal is a point against. He's really been a tease the past couple of years.

We contend damned near every year, and broke through once. I can live with that.

[woodbuck27]

I don't disagree with you, but I hope the media keeps asking questions and applying the heat.

It's difficult for any us to get to the TRUTH and how MM and TT operate as individuals and with one another unless we carefully examine (analyze) the things each says in Press conferences. Add what the beat writers give us Packer fans in articles made available to us on the internet.

Thus it comes down to observations of the games and that takes recording games and some time dedicated for a closer examination. I record every Packer Game for such..

We observed a load of head scratching and Packer Offensive woes this season. That went on week to week to week after the Packer Bye week. A proof that something just isn't right in the State of Denmark described in the Green Bay Packers and what appears obvious to me. Proper preparation for game days.

The fact of responsibility and ensuring that ran effectively on a week to week basis was on MM's plate and he failed over and over again. He has to know by now the BEST way to prep his team and thus.....allow the Packers the VERY BEST opportunity to win.

Hasn't MM failed to meet this objective? Maybe he's simply unlucky?

Where should the bulk of the blame be laid? Blame solves little. We simply need fix's for the 2016-17 Season

GO PACK GO !

[Pugger]

We had no business hanging around in that game without our top 4 receivers. That's a point for MM.

Getting so close without finishing the deal is a point against. He's really been a tease the past couple of years.

We contend damned near every year, and broke through once. I can live with that.

Yes, you can't win it if ya ain't in it. We aren't that far off. Just address a couple of weaknesses and get some depth at some other spots and 2016 could be real fun. :-)

[woodbuck27]

Yes, you can't win it if ya ain't in it. We aren't that far off. Just address a couple of weaknesses and get some depth at some other spots and 2016 could be real fun. :-)

You refuse to assume the MM Factor Pugger.

:-)

Good for you.