Stubby actually shaking things up?

[Rutnstrut]

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2016/01/19/packers-fire-fontenot-gash/79020198/

Maybe this season finally motivated him, or this came from over his head.

[Bossman641]

Sam Gash and Fontenot fired.....2 positions that underachieved during the year.

[MadScientist]

Is that the end of the changes, or is there still a chance Campen could be sent packing?

[Rutnstrut]

Is that the end of the changes, or is there still a chance Campen could be sent packing?

They hinted that there could be more changes.

[pbmax]

I like that people are being held accountable, but I am not sure Lacy, Perillo and RichRod's weight is the hill you make your stand on. I hope there is more to it than that.

Could AVP be moved back to RBs and TEs?

[pbmax]

Is that the end of the changes, or is there still a chance Campen could be sent packing?

I think he has developed enough players that he stays. Injuries hurt his unit like no other but WR.

He made Sitton, Bulaga and Lang good enough to get second contracts. He doesn't have a top flight LT prospect. Its not all bad despite the down year for Campen.

[Rutnstrut]

I like that people are being held accountable, but I am not sure Lacy, Perillo and RichRod's weight is the hill you make your stand on. I hope there is more to it than that.

Could AVP be moved back to RBs and TEs?

True, but maybe it wasn't just one big thing. Perhaps many small problems that weren't handled right became a bigger problem that combined with injuries and a "down" season for Rodgers resulted in what we got.

[denverYooper]

There was an article from some time back about how the various coaches had responsibilities for designing plays: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-coaches-work-day-and-night-designing-winning-plays-b99640058z1-363508751.html

Fontenot also had responsibility for designing short yardage plays. They sucked at short yardage. So his TEs underperformed and his plays could not have been successful.

I thought the approach to play design was unusual and maybe an attempt to inject creativity into their process.

I wouldn't be surprised if part of the structural change is that M3 is going to go back to doing most of that himself.

[pbmax]

^Short yardage would be a "Needs Improvement" on any Packer evaluation.

[Joemailman]

There was an article from some time back about how the various coaches had responsibilities for designing plays: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/packers-coaches-work-day-and-night-designing-winning-plays-b99640058z1-363508751.html

Fontenot also had responsibility for designing short yardage plays. They sucked at short yardage. So his TEs underperformed and his plays could not have been successful.

I thought the approach to play design was unusual and maybe an attempt to inject creativity into their process.

I wouldn't be surprised if part of the structural change is that M3 is going to go back to doing most of that himself.

Sounds like MM tried to re-invent the wheel and ended up with this.

http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20050517011749/uncyclopedia/images/c/c0/Square-wheel.jpg

[Pugger]

Is that the end of the changes, or is there still a chance Campen could be sent packing?

Why Campen? Because his line was beat up? When all of our regular starters are in there they are a pretty nice bunch. How many times did Rodgers get sacked in AZ Sunday night?

[Pugger]

I like that people are being held accountable, but I am not sure Lacy, Perillo and RichRod's weight is the hill you make your stand on. I hope there is more to it than that.

Could AVP be moved back to RBs and TEs?

Gash might not have been enough of a disciplinarian and the TE's blocking left a lot to be desired.

[Joemailman]

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2016/01/19/packers-fire-fontenot-gash/79020198/

Maybe this season finally motivated him, or this came from over his head.

I'm thinking it had to do with the offense going from 6th to 23rd. That's my theory and I'm sticking to it.

[Joemailman]

Gash might not have been enough of a disciplinarian and the TE's blocking left a lot to be desired.

I think they found out Gash gave Lacy Culver's gift certificates for Christmas.

[pbmax]

Packer Reports says that increase in fumbles had to hurt Gash's chances of surviving.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Still not enough heat being put on Stubby himself. TT should force him to bake in a steam bath for a day or two.:clap: Or make him write on a blackboard a thousand times: "I will play to win! I will play to win!"

http://infinitelytrue.com/bg.png

[woodbuck27]

Why Campen? Because his line was beat up? When all of our regular starters are in there they are a pretty nice bunch. How many times did Rodgers get sacked in AZ Sunday night?

This is a 5 part ? Pugger: No Six.

a) How many times was Aaron Rodgers sacked during this season?

b) How did that number compare to the SACK TOTALS for the QB's for the other NFCN Teams?

c) The same ? (see b) for the other NFC teams?

d) and the same for all NFL teams?

e) Did the last game or the Divisional Final game make the season?

f) Does a final game loss cure it all with anyone? You?

[George Cumby]

A good start. Let's see what else shakes out over the next week.

[woodbuck27]

A good start. Let's see what else shakes out over the next week.

A lot of changes and assertive moves must be made to right the lofting 'ship Packers'.

PACKERS FOREVER !!

[Pugger]

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2016/01/19/packers-fire-fontenot-gash/79020198/

Maybe this season finally motivated him, or this came from over his head.

You don't think there weren't shake ups after last season?

[Pugger]

This is a 5 part ? Pugger: No Six.

a) How many times was Aaron Rodgers sacked during this season? How many games did we have all 5 starters play together? 2

b) How did that number compare to the SACK TOTALS for the QB's for the other NFCN Teams?

c) The same ? (see b) for the other NFC teams?

d) and the same for all NFL teams?

e) Did the last game or the Divisional Final game make the season?

f) Does a final game loss cure it all with anyone? You?

When you have to put guards at the tackle positions and your WRs take forever to get separation your QB is gonna be in for a long day. You didn't notice a BIG difference in last Sunday's game in AZ compared to the game against that same defense in week 16?

[George Cumby]

A lot of changes and assertive moves must be made to right the lofting 'ship Packers'.

PACKERS FOREVER !!

The ship isn't listing that badly. Some changes to the overly complicated offensive coaching structure, some personnel changes, getting Eddie Lazy to buy weight watchers and go to Curves during the off-season and we are good to go.

Oh, and find McCarthys balls, he used to have them.

And get rid of Yoko.

[Patler]

When you think about it, Gash probably had to go. Not only did Lacy come into camp heavy and out of shape, watching some early season games again and the Cardinals game, it looks like he might have even gained more weight during the season. In any case, he looks even flabbier than he did early in the season. His long run, or should I say "trot" against the Cards was kind of embarrassing. There were more fumbles by both Lacy and Starks than in the past, a lot of bobbles that didn't result in fumbles. The fiasco with Lacy and Harris resulting in Lacy being sat, and Harris being fired. The reported lack of focus by Lacy through out the year, etc.

Coaches are supposed to teach, motivate and inspire. Good coaches get their players to be the best that they can be. Ultimately, it is up to the players, but good position coaches get their players to play at their best. Gash seemed to fail at that.

If Fontenot was responsible for their short yardage offense, I don't think we need to go beyond that to understand why he was let go. That part of the offense was abysmal all year. If the TEs didn't develop as MM expected they would, Fontenot's firing is also easily understood.

[Deputy Nutz]

I have always wondered about the role of the coach at the professional level. Is it their job to motivate professional athletes that are being paid lots of dollars to perform? Most guys are living the dream making money for playing a game they grew up loving. Compare your job to the job of a professional football player, does your boss inspire you to be better at your job, or does that paycheck motivate you more than anything else?

[Patler]

I have always wondered about the role of the coach at the professional level. Is it their job to motivate professional athletes that are being paid lots of dollars to perform? Most guys are living the dream making money for playing a game they grew up loving. Compare your job to the job of a professional football player, does your boss inspire you to be better at your job, or does that paycheck motivate you more than anything else?

Good bosses get more out of the group below them than bad bosses do. That doesn't mean that some don't perform just as well for a bad boss as for a good boss, but human nature is human nature. In a group of employees there are usually some who will do only what they have to do, and they are the people a boss needs to elevate. Not everyone is self motivated, and a paycheck becomes routine (and expected) to some who don't correlate it to the value they supply in return,

In some ways, it might be worse for athletes, many of whom have been coddled throughout high school and college. How many times have we talked about the elevated play from players in contract years? A good coach can make every year a contract year for some players, even if not all of his players.

Throw in the fact that the routine of practices, meetings and even games can be boring for many, and motivation can be a problem.

[Deputy Nutz]

If you are a shitty employee you are going to be a shitty employee unless your boss gives you an ultimatum, get better or find a new job. Under performing employees usually don't find their bosses motivating. High performing employees will continue to perform well if they have a boss that recognizes their efforts and commitment to the company. High performing employees will become less motivated if their boss refuses recognition and continues to pressure them for results.

Eddie Lacy is an athletically talented person, but for one reason or another he does not have passion for the game of football. To him it is just a job and right now he isn't working hard enough to make his talent worth while. How can you motivate a player like this? Money? Loyalty? I think it is a struggle for a coach at the professional level to deal with this attitude because very few of these guys are kept around for more than a couple of years before they are sent walking. Especially in the game of football.

[Fritz]

Since it appears R. Rodgers and Lacy were both overweight, shouldn't MM fire the nutritionist? Or maybe their moms?

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

If you are a shitty employee you are going to be a shitty employee unless your boss gives you an ultimatum, get better or find a new job. Under performing employees usually don't find their bosses motivating. High performing employees will continue to perform well if they have a boss that recognizes their efforts and commitment to the company. High performing employees will become less motivated if their boss refuses recognition and continues to pressure them for results.

Eddie Lacy is an athletically talented person, but for one reason or another he does not have passion for the game of football. To him it is just a job and right now he isn't working hard enough to make his talent worth while. How can you motivate a player like this? Money? Loyalty? I think it is a struggle for a coach at the professional level to deal with this attitude because very few of these guys are kept around for more than a couple of years before they are sent walking. Especially in the game of football.

Why wouldn't an incentive laden extension work?

[Patler]

Yet that is exactly what coaches are paid to, especially at the professional level; whether it is from fear, encouragement or threats. It could be that MM and Gash disagreed about what to do with Lacy, but we are unlikely to ever know if that is the case or not. Gash was here only two years, maybe they just didn't see eye to eye.

Fontenot is a bit surprising from the perspective that MM brought him in as an intern in MM's first year and kept him ever since. MM continually promoted him through the ranks for 10 years. MM trained him as a coach for 10 years.

[Pugger]

If you are a shitty employee you are going to be a shitty employee unless your boss gives you an ultimatum, get better or find a new job. Under performing employees usually don't find their bosses motivating. High performing employees will continue to perform well if they have a boss that recognizes their efforts and commitment to the company. High performing employees will become less motivated if their boss refuses recognition and continues to pressure them for results.

Eddie Lacy is an athletically talented person, but for one reason or another he does not have passion for the game of football. To him it is just a job and right now he isn't working hard enough to make his talent worth while. How can you motivate a player like this? Money? Loyalty? I think it is a struggle for a coach at the professional level to deal with this attitude because very few of these guys are kept around for more than a couple of years before they are sent walking. Especially in the game of football.

It appears Lacy's boss gave him an ultimatum yesterday in public.

[pbmax]

Since it appears R. Rodgers and Lacy were both overweight, shouldn't MM fire the nutritionist? Or maybe their moms?

If he tries to close Five Guys on Oneida we are going to need to talk.

[Scott Campbell]

I'd be ok with them firing Edgar Bennet if they made it a package deal with Davante Adams.

That's what they get for drafting a Fresno State guy.

[run pMc]

Why wouldn't an incentive laden extension work?

It depends on the incentives. The agent might complain, as would the NFLPA, if the incentives were unusual. Might also cause some hard feelings between player, agent, coaches, and management.

[woodbuck27]

The ship isn't listing that badly. Some changes to the overly complicated offensive coaching structure, some personnel changes, getting Eddie Lazy to buy weight watchers and go to Curves during the off-season and we are good to go.

Oh, and find McCarthys balls, he used to have them.

And get rid of Yoko.

I thought we'd be great this season.

By the start of the 2016 Season I'll be all +ve and the 2016-17 Season.

When I found out we lost Jordy Nelson I said to Mae. That's going to be a big problem.

Essentially that loss hurt us and placed tremendous pressure on the use of Randall Cobb.

[Pugger]

I'd be ok with them firing Edgar Bennet if they made it a package deal with Davante Adams.

That's what they get for drafting a Fresno State guy.

I'd like to see Edgar back with the WRs. Wasn't he that position coach last year? I'm not ready to give up on Adams quite yet either. Jordy was a late bloomer too.

[Pugger]

I thought we'd be great this season.

By the start of the 2016 Season I'll be all +ve and the 2016-17 Season.

When I found out we lost Jordy Nelson I said to Mae. That's going to be a big problem.

Essentially that loss hurt us and placed tremendous pressure on the use of Randall Cobb.

I don't think a lot of folks realized what the loss of Jordy did to this offense, including me. We all thought the guys left would be able to fill is considerable shoes. It showed the league that Jordy is indeed one of the best WR in the game today. It will so wonderful to get him back next season!

[Deputy Nutz]

I am not quite sure how McCarthy's offense compares to the original West Coast offense, but my best guess about the issues with the receiving corps and Rodgers is that they were not on the same page when it came to what routes to run when they came up to the line of scrimmage. It seemed that when you would watch the receivers they were hesitant before their cuts and breaks and they were easily readable. It is strange but it didn't look like routes were run at full speed.

[mraynrand]

^^^ PBmax has this figured out - the pre snap read and decision rules. Rodgers IDs the target and if that's covered, that's where the problem starts. You can see the other guys just kind of stopping their routes, expecting the ball to go somewhere else. If that first target is gone, it looks like the play is busted, and with the O-line problems, the inability of the WRs to get open versus man coverage, the reticence of Rodgers to throw people open/take risks, and run the ball more, these things all together ruin the offense.

[Joemailman]

I am not quite sure how McCarthy's offense compares to the original West Coast offense, but my best guess about the issues with the receiving corps and Rodgers is that they were not on the same page when it came to what routes to run when they came up to the line of scrimmage. It seemed that when you would watch the receivers they were hesitant before their cuts and breaks and they were easily readable. It is strange but it didn't look like routes were run at full speed.

I thought the same thing. Made me wonder if guys were going through the motions because they weren't expecting the ball to come to them. Also made me wonder if the WR group missed Jordy's leadership as much as his pass catching ability.

[Smidgeon]

I am not quite sure how McCarthy's offense compares to the original West Coast offense, but my best guess about the issues with the receiving corps and Rodgers is that they were not on the same page when it came to what routes to run when they came up to the line of scrimmage. It seemed that when you would watch the receivers they were hesitant before their cuts and breaks and they were easily readable. It is strange but it didn't look like routes were run at full speed.

Not sure about the original route or about how to adjust the route on the fly based on coverage after the snap?

[pbmax]

I think the entire concept of a progression of reads has changed. Its all pre-snap or one read after the snap.

If everyone knows where the ball is going based on that plus hand signals, it affects other routes. So if the Rodgers offense survives (and against great Defenses, it probably does need to survive), they need a progression off that if something doesn't pan out.

They should just watch Inception and have an offense INSIDE the offense.

[pbmax]

One other thing occurred to me about the limit of Stubby's stubbornness.

There have been games when he has either delayed the 4 minute offense or added in play action to get first downs. Those are usually games where the lead is not two scores. So while Stubby, he is not exactly one size fits all.

There is always hope.

[gbgary]

i like the changes so far and the tough talk from mm. good to know there's more than lip-service being paid to the problems. now if we could just get some miracle worker to take over Packers General Hospital.

[Joemailman]

i like the changes so far and the tough talk from mm. good to know there's more than lip-service being paid to the problems. now if we could just get some miracle worker to take over Packers General Hospital.

Overall the injuries weren't that bad. Unfortunately, they were kind of concentrated at the WR position. Jordy, Monty, Abby and Adams missed a combined 36 games.

[run pMc]

Overall the injuries weren't that bad. Unfortunately, they were kind of concentrated at the WR position. Jordy, Monty, Abby and Adams missed a combined 36 games.

It seemed like ankles were this year's hamstring.

[woodbuck27]

Overall the injuries weren't that bad. Unfortunately, they were kind of concentrated at the WR position. Jordy, Monty, Abby and Adams missed a combined 36 games.

Yes.... a lot of adversity right there.

A real blow to a strength we maybe? took for granted Joe.

That contributed a bad negative for Aaron Rodgers and his normal play that fell off in terms of outstanding Stat's.

GO PACK GO ! ,

[Pugger]

I thought the same thing. Made me wonder if guys were going through the motions because they weren't expecting the ball to come to them. Also made me wonder if the WR group missed Jordy's leadership as much as his pass catching ability.


I think both the QBs and WRs game suffered because of the assistant coaching situation we had. I hope to Christ Mike fixes that this offseason.

[gbgary]

Overall the injuries weren't that bad. Unfortunately, they were kind of concentrated at the WR position. Jordy, Monty, Abby and Adams missed a combined 36 games.

the o-line was in shambles. i think that was bigger than the wrs after all is said and done.

[gbgary]

hearing ahman green is interested in the rb coaches job. very good player but can he coach?

[Smidgeon]

He'd probably start in quality control. No one jumps straight to position coach (unless you're Kevin Greene).

[woodbuck27]

the o-line was in shambles. i think that was bigger than the wrs after all is said and done.

He (Ahman Green ) has great taste in a Personal Website... or at least I was impressed the last time I visited it.

Boy we had a solid RB in Ahman and never the same sonce.

I hope that somehow TT retains James Starks and informs MM that he want to see him given a better and more consistent chance in games.

He just seems to look good or get rolling and MM shuts his good effort act down. It seems too obvious to me.

Watch for this (my complaint and James Starks and MM) next season if he's back.

TT has to find another Quality RB any way he can.

No running game and we're a one trick pony and the best 'D' will eat the packers alive. There will be intense heat on ARod.

GO PACK GO !