GIL BRANDT---THE BIGGEST WINDOWS OF OPPORTUNITY FOR SUPER BOWLS

[Bretsky]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000629403/article/panthers-seahawks-have-biggest-super-bowl-windows

[mraynrand]

Gil Brandt's window is closing. He is a descending analyst. But McGinn is descending faster - McClickbait is in freefall.

[ThunderDan]

Gil Brandt's window is closing. He is a descending analyst. But McGinn is descending faster - McClickbait is in freefall.

Yup, he has Minnesota in the mix. I just don't see it. The D is getting really good but the O with Bridgewater and an aging AP seems average at best.

He also has CINN up there who I would guess may self-implode in 2016 after the playoff loss to end 2015.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000629403/article/panthers-seahawks-have-biggest-super-bowl-windows

"Dalton should come back healthy after a fractured thumb held him out of the final three regular-season games..."

I'm watching this team.

I agree on the assessments of the other Top Super Bowl contending teams.

No Packers....no wonder !

Too much laissey faire....status quo.

TT and MM got lucky...ONCE.

Their as a team the Packers GM and HC = One and Done.

Write that on your Packer Wall Packerrats.

We lose with TT and MM. Unless both of them really see the light....CHANGE They have to go for it. Use every option to upgrade the team by being 'ALL IN ...On Top Of It !

These two have ego's and eccentricities that don;'t even jell or it seems that way to me. Do they really communicate? It certainly doesn't seem that way. MM is about a frustrated HC as you'll see in all of Pro Sports. It's written all over him.

Mike McCarthy:

He's tighter than a dry cork in a Century Old Bottle Of Rare Wine. Pass him the TUMS...please. :-)


You seldom win a BIG POT....checking.

[ThunderDan]

"Dalton should come back healthy after a fractured thumb held him out of the final three regular-season games..."

I'm watching this team.

I agree on the assessments of the other Top Super Bowl contending teams.

No Packers....no wonder !

Too much laissey faire....status quo.

TT and MM got lucky...ONCE.

Their as a team the Packers GM and HC = One and Done.

Write that on your Packer Wall Packerrats.

We lose with TT and MM. Unless both of them really see the light....CHANGE They have to go for it.[


You seldom win a BOG POT....checking.

We have been to the NFC Championship Game 3 times in ten years. We won 1 and lost 2 in OT. Over that save time frame 2 other teams have made 3 NFC Championship games. That would be Seattle Seahawks and SF 49ers.

PS- I have won a $250,000+ pot in the WSOP Main Event checking on every street. You might have even seen me on EPSN during the 2006 Main Event coverage.

[Joemailman]

"Dalton should come back healthy after a fractured thumb held him out of the final three regular-season games..."

I'm watching this team.

I agree on the assessments of the other Top Super Bowl contending teams.

No Packers....no wonder !

Too much laissey faire....status quo.

TT and MM got lucky...ONCE.

Their as a team the Packers GM and HC = One and Done.

Write that on your Packer Wall Packerrats.

We lose with TT and MM. Unless both of them really see the light....CHANGE They have to go for it.[


You seldom win a BOG POT....checking.

You think the Packers are too laissez faire and you like the Bengals? Haven't won a playoff game since 1990 yet they've had the same coach for 13 years and the same GM for 25 years. Can't get more laissez faire than that.

[mraynrand]

We have been to the NFC Championship Game 3 times in ten years. We won 1 and lost 2 in OT. Over that save time frame 2 other teams have made 3 NFC Championship games. That would be Seattle Seahawks and SF 49ers.

status quo

[mraynrand]

You think the Packers are too laissez faire and you like the Bengals? Haven't won a playoff game since 1990 yet they've had the same coach for 13 years and the same GM for 25 years. Can't get more laissez faire than that.

Ooooo...la-zy fair. Homer like.

https://pp.vk.me/c543109/v543109772/7b4/TL1GqOFCduk.jpg

[mraynrand]

https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2015/08/usatsi_8763205.jpg?w=1000&h=600&crop=1

Status quo, TT has to go!

[mraynrand]

http://images.performgroup.com/di/library/omnisport/eb/35/packers-wr-randall-cobb_1qtl5jofk37qe1r66tsx889yzy.png?t=1340171162

Status quo, Stubby needs to go!

[mraynrand]

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/b53fe60d4dbf358301736f8717f52571ed777e70/c=20-0-3231-4281&r=537&c=0-0-534-712/local/-/media/2015/10/18/WIGroup/PackersNews/635807898755241987-APC-Packers-vs-Chargers-0829-101815-wag.jpg

Status quo: upgrade the team!

[mraynrand]

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/images/photos/003/527/801/hi-res-156d0e4a4e660e457f74f8df693eab89_crop_north.jpg?w= 630&h=420&q=75

http://media.gettyimages.com/photos/wide-receiver-davante-adams-of-the-green-bay-packers-lies-on-the-picture-id504394884

Status quo - double dipper!

[mraynrand]

http://media2.fowcdn.com/resizer/750x500-5692bd42d184c.jpg

Status quo, training staff needs to go!

[mraynrand]

http://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/bedfb6a3ee0a7d5177c6f17f9001dd31f6fad924/c=0-0-2656-1997&r=x404&c=534x401/local/-/media/2015/12/27/WIGroup/PackersNews/635868485914074742-GPG-ES-Packers-vs-Cardinals-12.27.1500966.jpg

Status quo - blame TT!

[pbmax]

Time for free weights to reduce concussions.

[mraynrand]

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/670082830718869505/DV_zL1R0.jpg

Staus quo! TT has to stop feeding Eddie!

[pbmax]

Bengals and Vikings on this list plus Steelers and Patriots takes the logic of the piece (length that window is open), kidnaps it, handcuffs it to a chair and leaves it in an abandoned warehouse.

Really a metaphor for Gil Brandt's mind.

[Joemailman]

Beat me to it.

http://onmilwaukee.com/images/articles/pa/packerseddielacyfat/packerseddielacyfat_fullsize_story1.jpg

[mraynrand]

Bengals and Vikings on this list plus Steelers and Patriots takes the logic of the piece (length that window is open), kidnaps it, handcuffs it to a chair and leaves it in an abandoned warehouse.

Really a metaphor for Gil Brandt's mind.

no kidding. The reason why the window is open for NE and the Steelers is exactly the same reason it's open for the Packers - simply put, it's the way they run their organizations and build their teams.

[mraynrand]

Status quo?

2012: Scored 433 points (27.1/g), 5th of 32 in the NFL. Allowed 336 points (21.0/g), 11th.
2013: Scored 417 points (26.1/g), 8th of 32 in the NFL. Allowed 428 points (26.8/g), 24th.
2014: Scored 486 points (30.4/g), 1st of 32 in the NFL. Allowed 348 points (21.8/g), 13th.
2015: Scored 368 points (23.0/g), 15th of 32 in the NFL. Allowed 323 points (20.2/g), 12th.

[Pugger]

I found it interesting that Brandt thinks the Steelers have a bigger window of opportunity for Super Bowls and not the Packers when he talks about Pitt having a top 5 QB - which is debable, a top 5 WR - Jordy is a top 10, and top RB - Eddie would be good enough if he can get his eating disorder under control. Our defense is better than the Steelers so I'm having a hard time trying to figure out why he believes Pitt's window is wider than ours...

[woodbuck27]

You think the Packers are too laissez faire and you like the Bengals? Haven't won a playoff game since 1990 yet they've had the same coach for 13 years and the same GM for 25 years. Can't get more laissez faire than that.

No... I wrote:

I'm watching their progress. The Bengals are it seems to me knocking on the door. Will they win a Super Bowl before the Green Bay Packers?

I believe their ahead of the Packers in real terms and Super Bowl contender.

It's way too obvious to me now that TT's style cannot win for Aaron Rodgers and Packer Nation.

To be in tune and winning you must keep up with what the real contenders are doing. Even that 'only' gives you a real chance.

Right now the Green Bay Packers are 'a stuck in TT's Mud' franchise.

Ted Thompson MUST get out of his self made mud.

MM...is just along for TT's ride. I actually feel some sympathy for MM as to deal with what I've always seen in Ted Thompson has to be :bang:

I watch a lot that's NOT Packers.

That's practise gives me an edge in Fantasy Football Competitions but moreso have a better insight in all things NFL.

I'm far from being NFL ignorant. It's a main hobby and been so for well over 5 decades.

With TT as he is......WE Can 'ONLY' lose.

[mraynrand]

It's way too obvious to me now that TT's style cannot win for Aaron Rodgers and Packer Nation.


Other than the fact that it has, and that you're totally wrong, you make a solid point.

[mraynrand]

You think the Packers are too laissez faire and you like the Bengals? Haven't won a playoff game since 1990 yet they've had the same coach for 13 years and the same GM for 25 years. Can't get more laissez faire than that.

I think you mean status quo

[woodbuck27]

We have been to the NFC Championship Game 3 times in ten years. We won 1 and lost 2 in OT. Over that save time frame 2 other teams have made 3 NFC Championship games. That would be Seattle Seahawks and SF 49ers.

PS- I have won a $250,000+ pot in the WSOP Main Event checking on every street. You might have even seen me on EPSN during the 2006 Main Event coverage.

I'm not referring to checking after the deal of your down cards......rather checking after the Turn and /or River.

You and a 250 K Pot...not bad.

My best...DOUBLE THAT ........a 500K Pot.

I watch your progress and the Pro Pickem. I do see potential.....but your a ways from the Big Dogs aren't you Thunderdan? That should encourage you and I give you full marks for effort. It's a tough group in terms of some that compete every season. I've seen too many here come in....Fail Dramatically. It's all about those who imagine they know and those who DO know ThunderDan.

You...your knocking on the door Thunderdan. You may one day claim a Championship. Separate yourself as well.....MEN and boys.

That aside it's a lot like playing pool. You must pay to learn. Ever go up against....that.... 'the Ole Dog' and playing pool ThunderDan? As long as he's cool and the nerves in check. Your likely in a Best of 11...Toast. He'll eat you up. I've been a competitor all my life. ..and a WINNER. Not bragging ...simply stating my life's experience and my views here.

The Packerrats Pro Pickem': I encourage your BEST efforts. Winning a Championship and that event is difficult. I wish you so much good analysis and 'of course' LUCK ThunderDan. I'm always pulling for a new Blood Champion. Some of us need the REAL competition. :glug:


RE: TEXAS HOLDEM'

I'd enjoy :-) having your sit with me......on any Five Table. :duel: and :jig: $$$$ in my pockets $$$$

I'll certainly claim this.....I'm an Old Dog. You cannot pull any SHIT on me.

That's why I cannot agree with you Homers here and the Green Bay Packers real chance and Super Bowl. I want a WINNER !

I'm just sick with all we've had since our last Super Bowl which looks right now like nothing more than an Fluke. Ted Thompson and his plan.

NOT working ...won't get us that Super Bowl.

It will 'only' allow us a shot at the NFCN Division Championship because he pinned Aaron Rodgers on his lapel.

[Joemailman]

No... I wrote:

I'm watching their progress. The Bengals are it seems to me knocking on the door. Will they win a Super Bowl before the Green Bay Packers?

I believe their ahead of the Packers in real terms and Super Bowl contender.



If they're ahead of the Packers, why can't they win a playoff game? Packers had their worst offense in a decade and still won a playoff game. What specifically makes the Bengals more of a Super Bowl contender than the Packers?

[mraynrand]

I'm just sick with all we've had since our last Super Bowl which looks right now like nothing more than an Fluke. Ted Thompson and his plan.

NOT working ...won't get us that Super Bowl.

It will 'only' allow us a shot at the NFCN Division Championship because he pinned Aaron Rodgers on his lapel.

Why don't you go follow whomever wins the Superbowl then? It's really your only argument - to say the Packers aren't as good as whomever won this year. Your insight here is essentially worthless. You can't outline anything concrete that would work better, except to cherry pick other's successes while ignoring their failure. You can't make an argument that any team in the last ten years - except perhaps 1 or 2 - is better and more successful that the Packers - but that's beside the point, because you don't actually make arguments. If you did, you might be interesting. You're just bitching. Honestly, you are as thoroughly inane as Wist, except that he actually knows something about football.

[ThunderDan]

I'm not referring to checking after the deal of your down cards......rather checking after the Turn and /or River.

You and a 250 K Pot...not bad.

My best...DOUBLE THAT ........a 500K Pot.

I watch your progress and the Pro Pickem. I do see potential.....but your a ways from the Big Dogs aren't you Thunderdan? That should encourage you and I give you full marks for effort. It's a tough group in terms of some that compete every season. I've seen too many here come in....Fail Dramatically. It's all about those who imagine they know and those who DO know ThunderDan.

You...your knocking on the door Thunderdan. You may one day claim a Championship. Separate yourself as well.....MEN and boys.

That aside it's a lot like playing pool. You must pay to learn. Ever go up against....that.... 'the Ole Dog' and playing pool ThunderDan? As long as he's cool and the nerves in check. Your likely in a Best of 11...Toast. He'll eat you up. I've been a competitor all my life. ..and a WINNER. Not bragging ...simply stating my life's experience and my views here.

The Packerrats Pro Pickem': I encourage your BEST efforts. Winning a Championship and that event is difficult. I wish you so much good analysis and 'of course' LUCK ThunderDan. I'm always pulling for a new Blood Champion. Some of us need the REAL competition. :glug:


RE: TEXAS HOLDEM'

I'd enjoy :-) having your sit with me......on any Five Table. :duel: and :jig: $$$$ in my pockets $$$$

I'll certainly claim this.....I'm an Old Dog. You cannot pull any SHIT on me.

That's why I cannot agree with you Homers here and the Green Bay Packers real chance and Super Bowl. I want a WINNER !

I'm just sick with all we've had since our last Super Bowl which looks right now like nothing more than an Fluke. Ted Thompson and his plan.

NOT working ...won't get us that Super Bowl.

It will 'only' allow us a shot at the NFCN Division Championship because he pinned Aaron Rodgers on his lapel.

Woody-

When you have 6 figure winnings on live Major Tournament Poker and have final Tabled a WSOP Event I'll listen to your poker ramblings. In fact, I cashed in the WSOP again this summer.

As to the Pro Pick'Em. I spend 2 minutes a week on the picks. I don't spend time researching. I simple go with my gut feeling.

Our records so far:
Woody - 166-100 62.41%
ThunderDan - 158-108 59.40%

Over 266 games you have picked 8 more games correctly. Well done. You deserve the trophy.

[woodbuck27]

Other than the fact that it has, and that you're totally wrong, you make a solid point.

All that was .....was an apparent FLUKE...until there's a repeat Super Bowl win for 'the TT and MM and Aaron Rodgers' Green Bay Packers Era.

[woodbuck27]

Woody-

When you have 6 figure winnings on live Major Tournament Poker and have final Tabled a WSOP Event I'll listen to your poker ramblings. In fact, I cashed in the WSOP again this summer.

As to the Pro Pick'Em. I spend 2 minutes a week on the picks. I don't spend time researching. I simple go with my gut feeling.

Our records so far:
Woody - 166-100 62.41%
ThunderDan - 158-108 59.40%

Over 266 games you have picked 8 more games correctly. Well done. You deserve the trophy.

Well Thank You and a wee hint and Packerrats Pro Pickem:

Focus on esoxx....He's 'the VERY BEST' I'd venture to say anywhere in terms of consistency.

As I wrote earlier and Texas Holdem'..

I'd relish playing you on a Texas Holdem...Five Table.

You'd be tested.

I've never focused on a certain players style and ever lost to that player.

If I decide I'll win...I'll win !

Sadly that's moot as we'll never face one another .

[mraynrand]

All that was .....was an apparent FLUKE...until there's a repeat Super Bowl win for 'the TT and MM and Aaron Rodgers' Green Bay Packers Era.

So you are arguing that it was an apparent fluke, not a real fluke?

[mraynrand]

Well Thank You and as I wrote earlier.

I'd relish playing you on a Texas Holdem...Five Table.

You'd be tested.

I've never focused on a certain players style and ever lost to that player.

If I decide I'll win...I'll win !

Sadly that's moot as we'll never face one another .

bragging on the internet again, I see.

[ThunderDan]

Well Thank You and as I wrote earlier.

I'd relish playing you on a Texas Holdem...Five Table.

You'd be tested.

I've never focused on a certain players style and ever lost to that player.

If I decide I'll win...I'll win !

Sadly that's moot as we'll never face one another .

Wow, when you focus on someone's style you never lose. That is amazing. You are so full of crap it is fun.

Even if you get it in way way ahead in a Hold 'Em hand, let's say AA vs KK and we are at the river you are going to lose 5% of the time. That's just math. AA vs AK preflop the aces only hold up 92% of the time. Even with your supposed studying you can't win every time.

If I want real poker advise I ask my good friend Eric Baldwin. He was the 2009 Card Player Player of the Year from Beaver Dam, WI.

[woodbuck27]

Wow, when you focus on someone's style you never lose. That is amazing. You are so full of crap it is fun.

Even if you get it in way way ahead in a Hold 'Em hand, let's say AA vs KK and we are at the river you are going to lose 5% of the time. That's just math. AA vs AK preflop the aces only hold up 92% of the time. Even with your supposed studying you can't win every time.

If I want real poker advise I ask my good friend Eric Baldwin. He was the 2009 Card Player Player of the Year from Beaver Dam, WI.

Give you advice and Texas Holdem? Where's that coming from?

Embracing that as even a possibility! I'd ask myself:

Would I possibly have enough patience.

As I recall playing TH and my way of focusing to win Vs a certain player.

In (or during) a session not on a per hand basis (get real); or in other words:

As long as he and I are on the same table.

I 'only' recall being duped by a handful of players. One fella was on a special night and owned me. That player was from Quebec. There are strong players coming out of that Province in Canada over the past decade.

ThunderDan I've been playing Poker since about 8 years of age. I love this game above all others. I dig chess aw well but sometimes it's a little slow for me.

It's been nothing for me at certain times in my life. To unwind from highly stressful work assignments or University demands etc. played Poker 3 and 4 nights a week. My head is glued into the game. FACT: I have good success reading a player and his hand. FACT: I because of experience and cool..... have 'the edge' in my game.

I don't have to discuss with you all the traits; that added up; make me a superior Poker player.

Here's Quote for your life:

A man lives by believing something: not by debating and arguing about many things. Thomas Carlyle

[Pugger]

So you are arguing that it was an apparent fluke, not a real fluke?

Evidently according to Woodbuck if a team wins a SB but doesn't repeat it within 5 years then that SB win was a fluke. Just don't tell these guys:

Seattle
Green Bay
Baltimore
New Orleans
Indianapolis
Tampa Bay
St. Louis

[King Friday]

Ah yes. Bengals and Vikings. Those are two franchises you really want to hitch the wagon to when it comes to potential Super Bowl success.

Sorry Ras.

I'm surprised Gil didn't throw the Bills in for good measure.

[Bretsky]

It was borderline idiotic not to include GB with Rodgers at his age. Don't get that

[King Friday]

I found it interesting that Brandt thinks the Steelers have a bigger window of opportunity for Super Bowls and not the Packers when he talks about Pitt having a top 5 QB - which is debable, a top 5 WR - Jordy is a top 10, and top RB - Eddie would be good enough if he can get his eating disorder under control. Our defense is better than the Steelers so I'm having a hard time trying to figure out why he believes Pitt's window is wider than ours...

Most of it is probably the conference...the AFC is just flat out weaker than the NFC. The Panthers, Seahawks, Cardinals, and Packers (if healthy) are all arguably as good as anyone the AFC has to offer. The 2 last teams standing in the AFC this year have QBs pushing 40 years of age. So, yeah, it's going to be a nice time to be in the AFC soon.

[King Friday]

It was borderline idiotic not to include GB with Rodgers at his age. Don't get that

Even more idiotic when you put the VIKINGS on the list. I agree they are heading in the right direction, but AP is a huge part of their offense and he ain't going to be an elite back much longer. I'm not sure that offense is going to be good enough under Zimmer to be a title contender unless Bridgewater becomes an elite QB. That is a big leap to take at this point.

[Patler]

It was borderline idiotic not to include GB with Rodgers at his age. Don't get that

Except for a couple freak plays, MM & Rodgers didn't make the Packers a very good team this year. Until they can prove this year was an oddity, and not the beginning of a new era in Green Bay, they will receive little or no respect from commentators. A single playoff win against a team that didn't deserve to be in the playoffs didn't do much to change impressions that were formed over the Packers last 10 regular season games.

[pbmax]

Except for a couple freak plays, MM & Rodgers didn't make the Packers a very good team this year. Until they can prove this year was an oddity, and not the beginning of a new era in Green Bay, they will receive little or no respect from commentators. A single playoff win against a team that didn't deserve to be in the playoffs didn't do much to change impressions that were formed over the Packers last 10 regular season games.

That's a relative scale. Packers did as much if not more than the Vikes or Bengals.

[Pugger]

Except for a couple freak plays, MM & Rodgers didn't make the Packers a very good team this year. Until they can prove this year was an oddity, and not the beginning of a new era in Green Bay, they will receive little or no respect from commentators. A single playoff win against a team that didn't deserve to be in the playoffs didn't do much to change impressions that were formed over the Packers last 10 regular season games.

We wouldn't be the first perennial winning team that has a less than stellar season sprinkled in. And I don't know if we can really call a 10-6 season a poor one. We had our issues the last 10 games but did play pretty well in the post season. We put a beat down on the 'Skins and took the Cards into OT only to lose basically on one broken play. I suspect our lofty expectations going into the season are what is fueling this idea that 2015 was an unmitigated disaster and a sign the end is near.

[Deputy Nutz]

Top Ten Teams 20016

1. Patriots
2. Carolina
3. Seattle
4. Green Bay
5. Pittsburgh
6. Arizona
7. Cincinnati
8. Denver
9. Kansas City
10. New York Jets

[Patler]

That's a relative scale. Packers did as much if not more than the Vikes or Bengals.

I can't comment on the Bengals, since I have not watched them at all.

However, the Vikings clearly looked like a team that was ascending, while the Packers looked like a team descending. If they were at the same relative spot (which I do not think they were the second half od this year), it was crossing paths while headed in opposite directions.

But, next year they start over. The Vikings have to prove thaat 2015 was legitimate, and the Packers have to prove that 2015 was an aberration.

[Patler]

We wouldn't be the first perennial winning team that has a less than stellar season sprinkled in. And I don't know if we can really call a 10-6 season a poor one. We had our issues the last 10 games but did play pretty well in the post season. We put a beat down on the 'Skins and took the Cards into OT only to lose basically on one broken play. I suspect our lofty expectations going into the season are what is fueling this idea that 2015 was an unmitigated disaster and a sign the end is near.

The point is that the national media never gets behind the team that had an off year, they get behind the team that surprised or even rose expectedly. However, it won't take a lot for the Packers to gain back their respect, because they have a long history. All they need to do is win at the start of the season, and look good doing it.

That said, I can't see the 2015 team as a typical "10-6" team, not after finishing 4-6, which just as easily could have been 3-7. Not after losing at home to all teams in the division. It was a team that wasn't even in a lot of the games they lost. It simply was not a very good team at the end of the year, and neither playoff game changed that very much. It was closer to the 4-6 team of its finish than it was to the 6-0 team of its start.

I'm not throwing away 2016, however. We all talk about over achieving teams; typically they do not do as well the following season. I can't help but think the 2015 Packers were an extremely underachieving team, one that should rebound in 2016. It all hinges on AR. If he returns to form, things will be fine. If he is a QB that will be retired by age 35 as he fades away, next year may not be as pleasant as we have become accustomed to.

[Joemailman]

I can't comment on the Bengals, since I have not watched them at all.

However, the Vikings clearly looked like a team that was ascending, while the Packers looked like a team descending. If they were at the same relative spot (which I do not think they were the second half od this year), it was crossing paths while headed in opposite directions.

But, next year they start over. The Vikings have to prove thaat 2015 was legitimate, and the Packers have to prove that 2015 was an aberration.

Yet despite the fact that the 2 teams were seemingly headed in opposite directions, the Packers soundly beat the Vikings once, and the Vikings had to hold on late to win the other game. I think the likelihood is that Rodgers rebounds from 2015, at least into the top 10 of QB's, if not the absolute top. The question is how much upside does Bridgewater have? Rodgers' worst year as a starter was still better than Bridgewater.

[mraynrand]

I suppose you could say barely missing the NFCC game with fat Lacy and receivers 5-8 was an 'aberration' and a 'descending team.' Kinda hope so, because it means next year, APRH, the Packers will be ascending into the Superbowl. But unless TT just starts totally missing on draft picks, it's hard to imagine the Packers being out of it.

Prediction: It will be amusing to see fans of other teams with marginal starting QBs getting pissed off next preseason when they see Hundley shred their defenses.

[ThunderDan]

I suppose you could say barely missing the NFCC game with fat Lacy and receivers 5-8 was an 'aberration' and a 'descending team.' Kinda hope so, because it means next year, APRH, the Packers will be ascending into the Superbowl. But unless TT just starts totally missing on draft picks, it's hard to imagine the Packers being out of it.

Prediction: It will be amusing to see fans of other teams with marginal starting QBs getting pissed off next preseason when they see Hundley shred their defenses.

God, thanks for bring back the fat Lacy run memories. He was looking for someone to catch him at the 30 yard line on the long run.

[ThunderDan]

The point is that the national media never gets behind the team that had an off year, they get behind the team that surprised or even rose expectedly. However, it won't take a lot for the Packers to gain back their respect, because they have a long history. All they need to do is win at the start of the season, and look good doing it.

That said, I can't see the 2015 team as a typical "10-6" team, not after finishing 4-6, which just as easily could have been 3-7. Not after losing at home to all teams in the division. It was a team that wasn't even in a lot of the games they lost. It simply was not a very good team at the end of the year, and neither playoff game changed that very much. It was closer to the 4-6 team of its finish than it was to the 6-0 team of its start.

I'm not throwing away 2016, however. We all talk about over achieving teams; typically they do not do as well the following season. I can't help but think the 2015 Packers were an extremely underachieving team, one that should rebound in 2016. It all hinges on AR. If he returns to form, things will be fine. If he is a QB that will be retired by age 35 as he fades away, next year may not be as pleasant as we have become accustomed to.

Odd season that we beat all 3 NFC North teams on the road and lost to all 3 NFC North teams at home.

[pbmax]

God, thanks for bring back the fat Lacy run memories. He was looking for someone to catch him at the 30 yard line on the long run.

Its now the illustration in wikipedia for 'looking for a place to fall down'.

[mraynrand]

Its now the illustration in wikipedia for 'looking for a place to fall down'.

It replaced the Strahan 'sack' of Favre

[Smidgeon]

Top Ten Teams 20016

1. Patriots
2. Carolina
3. Seattle
4. Green Bay
5. Pittsburgh
6. Arizona
7. Cincinnati
8. Denver
9. Kansas City
10. New York Jets

That's really advanced prognostication.

I wonder what the mascots will be in 18000 years...

[Patler]

Odd season that we beat all 3 NFC North teams on the road and lost to all 3 NFC North teams at home.

Sure is, but the only road win that was encouraging was at MN. The Bears was the first game of the year, before the season turned for the worse. As exciting as the win against the Lions was, overall the game was not confidence building.

[Patler]

God, thanks for bring back the fat Lacy run memories. He was looking for someone to catch him at the 30 yard line on the long run.

It even looked like a couple of the GB linemen slowed down so they didn't get too far ahead of him. The last 40 yards looked like it was in slow motion.
That alone should encourage Lacy to dedicate himself to conditioning in the off season. He had to be embarrassed when he watched it.

[woodbuck27]

Which quarterback will win the most Super Bowls over the next 10 years?

Which team will make the most Super Bowl appearances in the next 10 years?

http://www.timetobreak.com/2224711/brad-pitt-has-revealed-14-never-seen-before-intimate-photos-of-angelina-jolie/8/

[mraynrand]

http://www.timetobreak.com/2224711/brad-pitt-has-revealed-14-never-seen-before-intimate-photos-of-angelina-jolie/8/

You're a peeping Tom!

[yetisnowman]

We have been to the NFC Championship Game 3 times in ten years. We won 1 and lost 2 in OT. Over that save time frame 2 other teams have made 3 NFC Championship games. That would be Seattle Seahawks and SF 49ers.

PS- I have won a $250,000+ pot in the WSOP Main Event checking on every street. You might have even seen me on EPSN during the 2006 Main Event coverage.

As an pretty avid poker player it irks me when people use $ signs to describe tournament pots. You didn't drag a 250,000$ plus pot, you dragged a 250,000 plus CHIP pot. It's a huge and incredibly significant distinction. But any way , glad you got some tv time...carry on.

[ThunderDan]

As an pretty avid poker player it irks me when people use $ signs to describe tournament pots. You didn't drag a 250,000$ plus pot, you dragged a 250,000 plus CHIP pot. It's a huge and incredibly significant distinction. But any way , glad you got some tv time...carry on.

Yes, that pot was 250,000 Units. The payout was $95,000 at the end of the tournament when I busted out in 5th. :grin:

[Cheesehead Craig]

The point is that the national media never gets behind the team that had an off year, they get behind the team that surprised or even rose expectedly. However, it won't take a lot for the Packers to gain back their respect, because they have a long history. All they need to do is win at the start of the season, and look good doing it.

That said, I can't see the 2015 team as a typical "10-6" team, not after finishing 4-6, which just as easily could have been 3-7. Not after losing at home to all teams in the division. It was a team that wasn't even in a lot of the games they lost. It simply was not a very good team at the end of the year, and neither playoff game changed that very much. It was closer to the 4-6 team of its finish than it was to the 6-0 team of its start.

I'm not throwing away 2016, however. We all talk about over achieving teams; typically they do not do as well the following season. I can't help but think the 2015 Packers were an extremely underachieving team, one that should rebound in 2016. It all hinges on AR. If he returns to form, things will be fine. If he is a QB that will be retired by age 35 as he fades away, next year may not be as pleasant as we have become accustomed to.

You really have been commenting a lot about AR that he's losing it. Granted, he wasn't up to his standards this year but you seen to keep implying that he's on the down slide of his career and that he's gonna crash like it's the stock market of 1929

[Patler]

You really have been commenting a lot about AR that he's losing it. Granted, he wasn't up to his standards this year but you seen to keep implying that he's on the down slide of his career and that he's gonna crash like it's the stock market of 1929

No, that is not at all what I have been saying.

I do firmly believe that in 2015, he did not play up to the standard we have come to expect. Not even close. I think that was a lot of the cause for the steep slide of the offensive performance. However, I do not know if that will continue into 2016 or not.

IF it does, the Packers will have to become a different team than they have been so far under Rodgers

IF he returns to form, or close to it, the offense will recover just fine.

However, there is no way to really know until we see him next year. He is at an age where his skills MIGHT begin to decline. Not all QBs can play effectively until 38-40. For some, it ends in their mid-30s.

The troubling thing to me is that there was talk during training camp that Rodgers was "off". Maybe his off season prep was different, and less effective. Maybe the calf was still an issue in his off season prep. Maybe the knee he had scoped was bothering from the start. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

There certainly is no guarantee. I think it was Boomer Esiason who said the off season does funny things to a player as they get older. Things were fine at the end of the season. They come back in August, and all of a sudden some things just aren't there. Maybe Rodgers had that this year, and he refused to acknowledge it, so did not adapt. Maybe even if "something" is gone, he can adapt this next season to compensate.

However, just as it has been for the last 25 years for the Packers, success next year will depend on the play of the QB. If Rodgers is no better or effective that he was this year, GB will not be a legitimate contender.

So yea, I think a lot hinges on Rodgers next year. But, at this point, I have no ide where it will go, up or down.

[mraynrand]

No, that is not at all what I have been saying.

I do firmly believe that in 2015, he did not play up to the standard we have come to expect. Not even close. I think that was a lot of the cause for the steep slide of the offensive performance.

A 'lot?' What percentage is 'a lot?' Just curious what % you would attribute to:

Rodgers
-injuries
-other
WR injuries
Fat Lacy
Offensive restructuring
Other

[Upnorth]

What I like was our secondary. It looks solid and a strength on the team. Second was the pass rush, not dominant but consistent, like a wist nightmare ol spray paint hairs defense worked decent.
As to our offense, I would like to get a good te in the draft. I think a solid te could take away many of the problems that were uncovered with Nelsons injury.

[Patler]

A 'lot?' What percentage is 'a lot?' Just curious what % you would attribute to:

Rodgers
-injuries
-other
WR injuries
Fat Lacy
Offensive restructuring
Other

"a lot" is more than "a little". It is probably "quite a bit" more than "a little". Beyond that, I can't quantify it.

I have a few games recorded going back to the Super Bowl. I've watched bits and pieces of a few recently. Time and time again Rodgers threw into very tight coverage, but put the ball where the WR could get it, but not the DB. The receivers were no more open than what we often saw this year, but this year Rodgers wouldn't throw. Couple that with his uncharacteristic inaccuracy on all types of throws, and I think Rodgers performance was the most important factor in the downturn.

All the other things you mentioned were factors, but if Rodgers had been Rodgers they at least wouldn't have looked as incompetent as they did on offense.

[RashanGary]

All the other things you mentioned were factors, but if Rodgers had been Rodgers they at least wouldn't have looked as incompetent as they did on offense.

I agree!

[pbmax]

Trust in the receiver. There was no shortage of throws to tightly covered James Jones.

[woodbuck27]

"a lot" is more than "a little". It is probably "quite a bit" more than "a little". Beyond that, I can't quantify it.

I have a few games recorded going back to the Super Bowl. I've watched bits and pieces of a few recently. Time and time again Rodgers threw into very tight coverage, but put the ball where the WR could get it, but not the DB. The receivers were no more open than what we often saw this year, but this year Rodgers wouldn't throw. Couple that with his uncharacteristic inaccuracy on all types of throws, and I think Rodgers performance was the most important factor in the downturn.

All the other things you mentioned were factors, but if Rodgers had been Rodgers they at least wouldn't have looked as incompetent as they did on offense.

Yes. Aaron Rodgers wasn't at all what I expected this past year.

I'm hoping that 2015 was that bad year that a star QB wil have and he'll be open for any help and turn it up in this upcoming season.

He's got to stop moping. He's got to look really more 'the Leader' on the field. That's why he gets paid so handsomely. If he doesn't smarten up he'll lose his OL and maximum support and effort.

I'm very concerned for the Packers future with Aaron Rodgers given all that cash TT awarded him with. He has to realize a lot more is expected of him. An awesome 'Hail Mary pass' here and there isn't going to cut it when it comes to the knowledgeable fans in Packer Nation.

I'm certainly a Packer fan that needs to see a much improved Aaron Rodgers in all aspects of what it takes to even look like a NFL Pro Football HOFer.

I need to see better from ARod in terms of LEADERSHIP.

He's got to realize that he has WR's NOT named Nelson and Cobb.

GO PACK GO !

[Patler]

Trust in the receiver. There was no shortage of throws to tightly covered James Jones.

From what I saw, compared to how he approached throws in other years, he did hesitate also on throws to Jones, and also Cobb. Perhaps more importantly, sometimes when he did throw, he missed badly, much more often than in previous seasons.

I think there was another factor at play that people don't want to mention. I think AR lost a bit of trust in himself. Trust to make the tight coverage throw. As much as he hates interceptions, any erosion of his confidence for putting the ball where he wanted it would cause him to hesitate, hold the ball and run, take a sack or throw it away; all of which we saw too often in 2015.

I think it all goes back to his less than stellar training camp when he was being intercepted almost daily, and by rookies.

Maybe it was still the calf, maybe it was the knee, maybe it was the harbinger of the latter part of his career. Only time will tell.

[Carolina_Packer]

Yes. Aaron Rodgers wasn't at all what I expected this past year.

I'm hoping that 2015 was that bad year that a star QB wil have and he'll be open for any help and turn it up in this upcoming season.

He certainly has spoiled our fan base. Aaron has a "bad" year and the team goes 10-6. Other QB's have a bad year and possibly the coach and GM get fired, and the team changes QB's. If he rights the ship next year, we'll know it was an aberration, which I think it is.

[woodbuck27]

He certainly has spoiled our fan base. Aaron has a "bad" year and the team goes 10-6. Other QB's have a bad year and possibly the coach and GM get fired, and the team changes QB's. If he rights the ship next year, we'll know it was an aberration, which I think it is.

The sarcasm is noted.

I'm otherwise in agreement and the rest of your post.

PACKERS and Super Bowl or BUSTED !

[pbmax]

He definitely was more inaccurate this year. There were reports of INTs during camp, but it really came to a head in Game 6. And he did come to not trust himself which is why a lot of those bad INTs were double clutched.

But he was not interested in making tight window throws much of the time and I think that comes down to trust. Often a tight window throw is a result of a timing route. If the QB had to spot the small window, they would a) not see it in time and b) not choose to throw it there.

Cobb doesn't get many throws on timing routes. He shakes and bakes to get open. He is a reaction receiver. Abby got similar action, but by reading the coverage right and getting to the right spot with a good route. Also had some slants which probably doesn't bode well for his long term health.

Oddly, once it was clear Adams was having a lost season, the next most common WR to get contested throws was Janis. Some were hail mary types, but he got several over the middle he had to fight for position to get. Including a few nice slants. Rodgers was the other getting contested throws, but not in tight windows, just against tight coverage.

I just hope Janis is not on the 5 year James Starks plan to improve as a receiver.

[Fritz]

From what I saw, compared to how he approached throws in other years, he did hesitate also on throws to Jones, and also Cobb. Perhaps more importantly, sometimes when he did throw, he missed badly, much more often than in previous seasons.

I think there was another factor at play that people don't want to mention. I think AR lost a bit of trust in himself. Trust to make the tight coverage throw. As much as he hates interceptions, any erosion of his confidence for putting the ball where he wanted it would cause him to hesitate, hold the ball and run, take a sack or throw it away; all of which we saw too often in 2015.

I think it all goes back to his less than stellar training camp when he was being intercepted almost daily, and by rookies.

Maybe it was still the calf, maybe it was the knee, maybe it was the harbinger of the latter part of his career. Only time will tell.


Since we found out he's had a procedure done on his left knee, it seems logical to conclude, as a friend of mine has, that maybe AR was off on a lot of throws because he didn't want to lean into a throw - he threw an awful lot off his back foot.

[yetisnowman]

Yes, that pot was 250,000 Units. The payout was $95,000 at the end of the tournament when I busted out in 5th. :grin:

See now you are just outright lying. I already explained to you I know about poker. Your story already sounded flimsy, but now I know for sure. You didn't finish 5th in the 2006 main event.

[ThunderDan]

See now you are just outright lying. I already explained to you I know about poker. Your story already sounded flimsy, but now I know for sure. You didn't finish 5th in the 2006 main event.

When did I say I finished 5th in the Main Event? I said I have made a final table at the WSOP. It was a $1,500 buy-in event in 2007.

I got air time in 2006 because I was at a table with Eric Seidel, Dan Pickle and Alan Colon during the Main Event. We had 3 ESPN cameras and 2 sound mikes. We were a corner table right in the middle of the room.

I cashed again in the Colossus WSOP Event this summer.

[Patler]

Since we found out he's had a procedure done on his left knee, it seems logical to conclude, as a friend of mine has, that maybe AR was off on a lot of throws because he didn't want to lean into a throw - he threw an awful lot off his back foot.

I can buy that, for the off season anyway. :)

[Patler]

He certainly has spoiled our fan base. Aaron has a "bad" year and the team goes 10-6. Other QB's have a bad year and possibly the coach and GM get fired, and the team changes QB's. If he rights the ship next year, we'll know it was an aberration, which I think it is.

Not only spoiled the fans, the staff, too, in a way. But that happens with all of the top QB driven teams. If the QB is stuck in neutral, the team will flounder a bit.

[Patler]

He definitely was more inaccurate this year. There were reports of INTs during camp, but it really came to a head in Game 6. And he did come to not trust himself which is why a lot of those bad INTs were double clutched.

But he was not interested in making tight window throws much of the time and I think that comes down to trust. Often a tight window throw is a result of a timing route. If the QB had to spot the small window, they would a) not see it in time and b) not choose to throw it there.

Cobb doesn't get many throws on timing routes. He shakes and bakes to get open. He is a reaction receiver. Abby got similar action, but by reading the coverage right and getting to the right spot with a good route. Also had some slants which probably doesn't bode well for his long term health.

Oddly, once it was clear Adams was having a lost season, the next most common WR to get contested throws was Janis. Some were hail mary types, but he got several over the middle he had to fight for position to get. Including a few nice slants. Rodgers was the other getting contested throws, but not in tight windows, just against tight coverage.

I just hope Janis is not on the 5 year James Starks plan to improve as a receiver.

One big difference this year was AR's unwillingness to throw into smallish opportunities after he had bolted from the pocket. In years past, he uncorked some unbelievable throws on the run, putting the ball in perfect places. This year he didn't commit on those. Time and time again the announcers would say no one was open as they showed a wide angle view; and many times I could pick out a player that AR would have hit with a laser shot in years past.

AR couldn't hit Janis on a long throws worth a darn this year. He over threw him a few times, but mostly underthrew him, some that ended up being long completions he stopped or came back for, and a couple ended up in PI calls. I am so accustomed to seeing Rodgers hit those that it was frustrating at times when Janis did get behind DBs but Rodgers couldn't get the ball to him. But AR threw those differently this year, putting much more air under them. Remember the one early in the year, about which Janis said he never picked up the ball because it was so high?

Far moe times this year than normal, Rodgers didn't see guys who were open. Remember the throw of the MS Surface? There was more than just a few of those.

[yetisnowman]

We have been to the NFC Championship Game 3 times in ten years. We won 1 and lost 2 in OT. Over that save time frame 2 other teams have made 3 NFC Championship games. That would be Seattle Seahawks and SF 49ers.

PS- I have won a $250,000+ pot in the WSOP Main Event checking on every street. You might have even seen me on EPSN during the 2006 Main Event coverage.

You said you won the pot in the main event. Then in another post you said you cashed in that tourney for 95,000. Sorry it was confusing.

[pbmax]

He made a read of Peanut Tillman on that play that turned out to be erroneous. Instead of Peanut jumping the hot receiver, the Packers got exactly what they wanted out of the route. He misread the D, that has happened before, though not as often as this year.

But having no time to reset and find someone else on that play was also something else that happened more often this year.

When he came off his first read and had time, he often did not find anything to his liking. That also happened more often this year.

When he found someone on a reset or on the move, his throw was more often inaccurate this year that previously.

The five percent increase in each event cascades, halts drives, depresses scoring and taxes the defense. But no one particular event is catastrophic. In years past, a 40 yard completion to Nelson reduces the number of plays needed.

[Fritz]

No, that is not at all what I have been saying.

I do firmly believe that in 2015, he did not play up to the standard we have come to expect. Not even close. I think that was a lot of the cause for the steep slide of the offensive performance. However, I do not know if that will continue into 2016 or not.

IF it does, the Packers will have to become a different team than they have been so far under Rodgers

IF he returns to form, or close to it, the offense will recover just fine.

However, there is no way to really know until we see him next year. He is at an age where his skills MIGHT begin to decline. Not all QBs can play effectively until 38-40. For some, it ends in their mid-30s.

The troubling thing to me is that there was talk during training camp that Rodgers was "off". Maybe his off season prep was different, and less effective. Maybe the calf was still an issue in his off season prep. Maybe the knee he had scoped was bothering from the start. Maybe, maybe, maybe.

There certainly is no guarantee. I think it was Boomer Esiason who said the off season does funny things to a player as they get older. Things were fine at the end of the season. They come back in August, and all of a sudden some things just aren't there. Maybe Rodgers had that this year, and he refused to acknowledge it, so did not adapt. Maybe even if "something" is gone, he can adapt this next season to compensate.

However, just as it has been for the last 25 years for the Packers, success next year will depend on the play of the QB. If Rodgers is no better or effective that he was this year, GB will not be a legitimate contender.

So yea, I think a lot hinges on Rodgers next year. But, at this point, I have no ide where it will go, up or down.


I said that exact thing to my wife the other day.

[ThunderDan]

You said you won the pot in the main event. Then in another post you said you cashed in that tourney for 95,000. Sorry it was confusing.

I have played in the Main Event 4 times. I have played in 9 other WSOP events. I play at the WSOP Circuit Event in Hammond, IN annually. Hadn't gone out to the WSOP for about 5 years since last summer because of the ban on online poker and not being able to get my nut together. Use to play at PokerStars and FullTilt a lot.

[Carolina_Packer]

The sarcasm is noted.

I'm otherwise in agreement and the rest of your post.

PACKERS and Super Bowl or BUSTED !

Thanks, didn't mean to sound sarcastic, only to note that our standards are high, so a bad year for the Packers is when Rodgers looks human, but they still go 10-6 and make the playoffs. It's weird to go from making it look too easy in 2014 to making it look too hard this past off-season, for all the reasons people are mentioning here. What a mental game it must be for a QB. it's still better than having Brian Hoyer as your QB, or being one of the have nots as far as having "The Man".