Look at all the Free Agents making plays for the Broncos

[RonWolfGOAT]

Ware, Sanders, Talib, Owen Daniels, TJ Ward.....it's almost like there is more than 1 way of buildling a team.

Huh.

[pbmax]

Sure if you want to bet the House on a 40n year old QB. It gets dismantled starting this offseason.

[RonWolfGOAT]

Sure if you want to bet the House on a 40n year old QB. It gets dismantled starting this offseason.

So because it gets dismantled in the offseason, their SB win is worse less than the Packers not getting their at all? Okay.

[Patler]

Ware, Sanders, Talib, Owen Daniels, TJ Ward.....it's almost like there is more than 1 way of buildling a team.

Huh.

and if GB had been there, it might have been Julius Peppers, Letroi Guion, James Jones, John Kuhn.

[RonWolfGOAT]

and if GB had been there, it might have been Julius Peppers, Letroi Guion, James Jones, John Kuhn.

the first 2 are legit...and your last two were street FAs. But whatever keeps you warm in your TT pajamas warm at night.

[ThunderDan]

It's like packerbacker1234 is back.

[pbmax]

So because it gets dismantled in the offseason, their SB win is worse less than the Packers not getting their at all? Okay.

1 Super Bowl in a four year run. How is that better than Packers 2008-2010?

[esoxx]

It is kind of amazing that horseface the GM has won a Super Bowl.

What an ugly game though.

[Rutnstrut]

Actually both teams utilized free agency quite well to get to the SB.

[pbmax]

Actually both teams utilized free agency quite well to get to the SB.

Carolina was much cheaper though. They had cap problems so they went cheap vet route.

Worked well until Ware and Miller met Oher.

[pbmax]

It is kind of amazing that horseface the GM has won a Super Bowl.

What an ugly game though.

I am just going to assume he cheated the cap again and gave Demarcus Ware a car dealership.

[ThunderDan]

Both Os were in fire.

[Patler]

the first 2 are legit...and your last two were street FAs. But whatever keeps you warm in your TT pajamas warm at night.

Well, for that matter, Julius Peppers was a street free agent too, as was Letroy Guion. What's the difference? Are they worse because they were street free agents? Oh, and why the insults?

[esoxx]

I am just going to assume he cheated the cap again and gave Demarcus Ware a car dealership.

No doubt. It's why I have a vile hatred of all things Broncos. Cheating bastards.

[RonWolfGOAT]

1 Super Bowl in a four year run. How is that better than Packers 2008-2010?

Elway has been to 2 SBs as GM in 3 years.

[RonWolfGOAT]

Not only is Elway a better GM than TT, but Elway doesn't even have front office experience and had to learn on the fly.

[mraynrand]

Not only is Elway a better GM than TT, but Elway doesn't even have front office experience and had to learn on the fly.

He's a great one, no doubt. Elway should go into the HOF with Tony Dungy. I mean, why wait?

[ThunderDan]

Trolling, trolling,trolling keep those doggies trolling

[mraynrand]

It is kind of amazing that horseface the GM has won a Super Bowl.

What an ugly game though.

I enjoyed it. If you don't like defense, I guess it was ugly.

[mraynrand]

Elway has been to 2 SBs as GM in 3 years.

Nothing gets by you, stat man!

[Patler]

Not only is Elway a better GM than TT, but Elway doesn't even have front office experience and had to learn on the fly.

Doesn't have front office experience? He's been in training since 2003, 1st as owner, CEO etc. of a minor league team, then as an adviser to the Broncos, then as VP of football operations for the Broncos, now as GM. He started working toward it shortly after retiring as a player.

[mraynrand]

Doesn't have front office experience? He's been in training since 2003, 1st as owner, CEO etc. of a minor league team, then as an adviser to the Broncos, then as VP of football operations for the Broncos, now as GM. He started working toward it shortly after retiring as a player.

Once you start presenting facts and rational argument, RonWolfGOAT will be gone like a fart in the wind.

[RonWolfGOAT]

Doesn't have front office experience? He's been in training since 2003, 1st as owner, CEO etc. of a minor league team, then as an adviser to the Broncos, then as VP of football operations for the Broncos, now as GM. He started working toward it shortly after retiring as a player.


ah, I stand corrected.

[RonWolfGOAT]

Once you start presenting facts and rational argument, RonWolfGOAT will be gone like a fart in the wind.


nope. i admit when Im wrong.

[yetisnowman]

and if GB had been there, it might have been Julius Peppers, Letroi Guion, James Jones, John Kuhn.

Your argument loses steam when you act as if there is no difference in these players and their situations vs the key Broncos free agents.

[Patler]

Your argument loses steam when you act as if there is no difference in these players and their situations vs the key Broncos free agents.

In what way? Weren't they able to sign with anyone they wanted to? Couldn't any team have signed them if they wanted to? Don't some street free agents, sign big $ contracts? Don't some "regular" free agents get minimum contracts, or no contract at all?

Educate me. What is the difference between a free agent whose contract expires, and a free agent whose contract is terminated before the final year it had on the face of it? What was the difference between James Jones in 2014 and James Jones in 2015?

[King Friday]

What was the difference between James Jones in 2014 and James Jones in 2015?

The hoodie?

[Patler]

The hoodie?

. :) :)

[yetisnowman]

In what way? Weren't they able to sign with anyone they wanted to? Couldn't any team have signed them if they wanted to? Don't some street free agents, sign big $ contracts? Don't some "regular" free agents get minimum contracts, or no contract at all?

Educate me. What is the difference between a free agent whose contract expires, and a free agent whose contract is terminated before the final year it had on the face of it? What was the difference between James Jones in 2014 and James Jones in 2015?

It's a different philosophy, a different kind of approach. Its far more aggressive to pursue a free agent whose contract has expired vs acquiring a guy who was released or taking a flyer on someone else's practice squad,etc. You have to see that? Denver has more pursued free agents that made an impact on this super bowl team than the Pack have had in a decade. There is a clear distinction, in the aggressive approach and the volume. It's clear as day.

[RonWolfGOAT]

It's a different philosophy, a different kind of approach. Its far more aggressive to pursue a free agent whose contract has expired vs acquiring a guy who was released or taking a flyer on someone else's practice squad,etc. You have to see that? Denver has more pursued free agents that made an impact on this super bowl team than the Pack have had in a decade. There is a clear distinction, in the aggressive approach and the volume. It's clear as day.


Bingo.

[Patler]

It's a different philosophy, a different kind of approach. Its far more aggressive to pursue a free agent whose contract has expired vs acquiring a guy who was released or taking a flyer on someone else's practice squad,etc. You have to see that? Denver has more pursued free agents that made an impact on this super bowl team than the Pack have had in a decade. There is a clear distinction, in the aggressive approach and the volume. It's clear as day.


Bingo.


By the way, Demarcus Ware was a street free agent, just like those the Packers sign, so I guess he doesn't count in your list of how the Broncos do it better?

[Striker]

Classic thread by an idiot poster.

Love it.

[Patler]

How Is Denver's signing of Ware a more aggressive approach than the Packers signing Peppers?
Both were released because of $ issues.

[RonWolfGOAT]

How Is Denver's signing of Ware a more aggressive approach than the Packers signing Peppers?
Both were released because of $ issues.

Ware/Peppers is a wash.

Talib?
Ward?
Sanders?
Manning?

[yetisnowman]

By the way, Demarcus Ware was a street free agent, just like those the Packers sign, so I guess he doesn't count in your list of how the Broncos do it better?

You are being purposefully obtuse. Technicalities and semantics aside Ware was an aggressive move whether he was released or not. Signed in march to a 3 year 30 mil deal. JJ was a stopgap reaction to jordys injury signed in September for 1 year under million. But keep pretending its the same.

[yetisnowman]

How Is Denver's signing of Ware a more aggressive approach than the Packers signing Peppers?
Both were released because of $ issues.

Volume. Volume. Volume. Volume . Volume. It's like debating with a wall. You can isolate Peppers v Ware thats fine. Wash. What about the other handful of key IMPACT free agents that are up and down both sides of the ball?

[Patler]

Ware, Sanders, Talib, Owen Daniels, TJ Ward.....it's almost like there is more than 1 way of buildling a team.

Huh.

Ware was a street free agent, just like the Packers signing of Peppers the same year.

Sanders was signed the year they lost Decker. That same summer GB resigned Nelson to avoid FA the next year.

Denver signed Talib and lost Rogers-Cromartie the same year; while Green Bay simply re-signed Shields. From the concept of roster building, how much difference is there really in that?

Denver signed Owen Daniels, but also lost Julius Thomas that same year. Would they have been worse off signing their own instead? GB re-signed Cobb, not a TE, but an important piece of their offense the year before.

Ward was signed in 2014, Mike Adams was lost. Denver did get younger, but Adams has been a Pro Bowler the 2 years he has been gone from Denver. Burnett would have been a FA that same year, but agreed to an extension ahead of FA.

I'm not sure free agency is the reason Denver and Green Bay ended up where they did.

[yetisnowman]

Re signing your own guys keeps you consistent. Upgrading at key spots via free agency/trades can put you over the top. Broncos/Panthers show that. You think Broncos with Osweiler, Decker, cromartie,no ware, etc instead of their current squad are a championship caliber team? The packers being passive when it comes to trades and free agency isnt a myth or hyperbole, there is plenty of truth to it.

[Patler]

2010 is just as big of a reason that the Panthers and Broncos are where they are.

In 2010:
Carolina finished 2-14, then drafted Newton #1
Denver finished 4-12 and drafted Von Miller #2.

League MVP and Super Bowl MVP.

[Patler]

Re signing your own guys keeps you consistent. Upgrading at key spots via free agency/trades can put you over the top. Broncos/Panthers show that. You think Broncos with Osweiler, Decker, cromartie,no ware, etc instead of their current squad are a championship caliber team? The packers being passive when it comes to trades and free agency isnt a myth or hyperbole, there is plenty of truth to it.

I don't think all the Bronco signings were upgrades, anymore than the Packers losing Wells and signing Saturday was an upgrade.

[Striker]

Ware, Sanders, Talib, Owen Daniels, TJ Ward.....it's almost like there is more than 1 way of buildling a team.

And the Packers, Broncos, Saints, Ravens, Seahawks, Steelers, Pats different team building strats have all led to a different team winning the SB dating back to 2009.

It's almost as if each of these ways are viable ways to build a team...meaning no true right or wrong way. You need the right players, some luck, and momentum to repeat.

You could also say there are 31 ways not to build a team each year. Since only one of the draft/develop heavy teams and FA building teams and the heavy spending spree teams win it every year.

[Striker]

I wonder what posters like the OP did after 2010. Celebrated? Cried? Had a different account name since they're likely some bandwagon/fair weather POS?

Also, I get a kick out of people like the OP since they only start these stupid one off threads and don't really contribute anything else to any other part of the forum (reminds me of some of the worst Bubbler trolls). Though I guess they get people to flame them so there's that.

[mraynrand]

Volume. Volume. Volume. Volume . Volume. It's like debating with a wall. You can isolate Peppers v Ware thats fine. Wash. What about the other handful of key IMPACT free agents that are up and down both sides of the ball?

Oooooo....IMPACT. Very cool. I wish the Packers signed guys and drafted guys with IMPACT, not just impact.

[Teamcheez1]

We can have this discussion every year.

Team X won the SB. My team isn't building their team the same way, doesn't have the right coach, doesn't play the right offense/defense, isn't good enough at certain positions. Like someone said earlier, there are 31 other teams trying to figure out how to win the SB next year.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Remember when it was trendy that coaches had to be tough to win a SB? I remember hearing so much about how a team needed a tough coach like Kubiak to win it all. Oh wait, that never happened.

[pbmax]

Does Elway get double credit for blowing the Elvis Dumerville contract restructuring/waiver? And then needing to sign Ware?

[pbmax]

I will say I would happily endorse signing a Colquitt to a FA contract, street or otherwise.

[Zool]

I wonder what posters like the OP did after 2010. Celebrated? Cried? Had a different account name since they're likely some bandwagon/fair weather POS?

Also, I get a kick out of people like the OP since they only start these stupid one off threads and don't really contribute anything else to any other part of the forum (reminds me of some of the worst Bubbler trolls). Though I guess they get people to flame them so there's that.

This is the correct portion. Trolls will be trolls. No amount of fact giving or counter arguing will get through because that's not what they want. They want to stir up shit. This jackwagon is no different and quite probably is one of the previous trolls with no sexual outlet sitting in their mother's basement.

He's probably jerking it to this thread 3-4 times a day.

[pbmax]

Here is another one the Packers should have considered for depth.

Tyler Dunne ‏@TyDunne 12m12 minutes ago
Meanwhile, in Philly, #Bills RB LeSean McCoy is under investigation.

Action News on 6abc @6abc
Sources: Off-duty Philadelphia officers assaulted by LeSean McCoy: http://6abc.com/1191784/

[yetisnowman]

Oooooo....IMPACT. Very cool. I wish the Packers signed guys and drafted guys with IMPACT, not just impact.

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. I feel the need to distinguish with capital letters since some can't accept the difference between the significance in signing Letroy Guion and signing Aqib Talib.

[mraynrand]

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. I feel the need to distinguish with capital letters since some can't accept the difference between the significance in signing Letroy Guion and signing Aqib Talib.

Are you saying you get more CAPS the more penalties you commit?

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't see a need to troll, but it's a pretty good bet the Packers would have had some more offensive success if they had looked to improve a few weak spots like TE. They are a super bowl team at most positions. There are many ways to skin a cat and I predict that when Elliot is running the show the Packers will operate differently - hopefully for the better.

It is unlikely thought that Elliot matches TT's success unless he finds another HOF QB.

[yetisnowman]

Are you saying you get more CAPS the more penalties you commit?

Talib has his issues and yes he makes an impact, even if 5% is negative. Guion is just a guy in the NFL. Barely noticeable.

[Patler]

Thanks for your contribution to the discussion. I feel the need to distinguish with capital letters since some can't accept the difference between the significance in signing Letroy Guion and signing Aqib Talib.

and some can't accept the similarity between signing Talib because they lost Rodgers-Cromartie by Denver, and Green Bay simply resigning Shields.

When you have to sign a high value FA because you lost a high value FA, is it really any different than just hanging on to your own high value FA instead? They did not add Talib to their talent pool, they replaced Rodgers-Cromartie with Talib. Maybe an improvement, maybe not, maybe a draw, but from a roster building concept it varies very little from GB have managed to keep Shields.

[yetisnowman]

They upgraded at key positions as opposed to re signing their guys. They are a better team because of their aggressiveness. They could have resigned Tebow, cromartie, Decker, Adams....but they didn't. They got better at those positions. It doesn't always work out, but Elway executed it brilliantly this go round. Are you really pretending there is no difference in the strategies?

[Patler]

They upgraded at key positions as opposed to re signing their guys. They are a better team because of their aggressiveness. They could have resigned Tebow, cromartie, Decker, Adams....but they didn't. They got better at those positions. It doesn't always work out, but Elway executed it brilliantly this go round. Are you really pretending there is no difference in the strategies?

I'm not pretending anything. I don't know how many of their lose-one, sign-one FA trade offs were improvements and how many weren't improvements. More importantly, I don't know how many were planned and how many were the result of an inability to reach agreement with the departing player. I think way too much is being made of a few FAs signed, not to fill holes, but to replace players that were just as good, maybe a little better, maybe a little worse. I'm not sure this Denver team was actually better than the one that lost the SB a coupls years ago. But, I will give Elway credit for making them different, not sure if it was better than the last one.

[RonWolfGOAT]

I wonder what posters like the OP did after 2010. Celebrated? Cried? Had a different account name since they're likely some bandwagon/fair weather POS?

Also, I get a kick out of people like the OP since they only start these stupid one off threads and don't really contribute anything else to any other part of the forum (reminds me of some of the worst Bubbler trolls). Though I guess they get people to flame them so there's that.

Charles Woodson, Howard Green, Ryan Picket...starting to think a lot of that roster was more John Schnieder than we think...

[RonWolfGOAT]

Im not sure how even the most ardent of TT fans can honestly say he has put enough resources into making the ILB and TE positions above average. They don't need to be great, just above average. But hey, at least we have two FBs.

[hoosier]

Denver is arguably an example of how free agency can help to build a SB roster. But when you look at just one team and try to evaluate roster-building strategies based on short term results, not only are you are being a results merchant, you are likely to be emulating models that are unreproducible or to which the rest of the league is now adjusting. So for free agency, how does relying on it to build your roster work for most teams in any given year? And how does reliance work for any one team over the course of many years?

[yetisnowman]

I'm not pretending anything. I don't know how many of their lose-one, sign-one FA trade offs were improvements and how many weren't improvements. More importantly, I don't know how many were planned and how many were the result of an inability to reach agreement with the departing player. I think way too much is being made of a few FAs signed, not to fill holes, but to replace players that were just as good, maybe a little better, maybe a little worse. I'm not sure this Denver team was actually better than the one that lost the SB a coupls years ago. But, I will give Elway credit for making them different, not sure if it was better than the last one.

You're not sure if this team is better? Elway took a pretty good defense and made it an all time great one via the draft and key free agents. Statistically that is indisputable.

[yetisnowman]

The only advantage 2013 Den had was a healthy, juiced up Manning.

[ThunderDan]

Just a few weeks ago people were claiming that the Washington way of FA signing was better than the Packers way.

[Patler]

You're not sure if this team is better? Elway took a pretty good defense and made it an all time great one via the draft and key free agents. Statistically that is indisputable.

And I don't dispute that. But, defense isn't the whole team (even though I have always been a defense first guy in every sport I have been involved in).

[Bossman641]

Denver is arguably an example of how free agency can help to build a SB roster. But when you look at just one team and try to evaluate roster-building strategies based on short term results, not only are you are being a results merchant, you are likely to be emulating models that are unreproducible or to which the rest of the league is now adjusting. So for free agency, how does relying on it to build your roster work for most teams in any given year? And how does reliance work for any one team over the course of many years?

+1,000

How much different would the Packers' seasons gone over the past few years if they had been able to grab Von Miller in 2011 rather than Sherrod? Of course, Denver drafted second that year and GB 32nd.

[Striker]

Im not sure how even the most ardent of TT fans can honestly say he has put enough resources into making the ILB and TE positions above average. They don't need to be great, just above average. But hey, at least we have two FBs.

I don't always argue nonsense, but when I do I point at the two FBs because somehow that makes my point more valid.

[RonWolfGOAT]

I don't always argue nonsense, but when I do I point at the two FBs because somehow that makes my point more valid.



way to ignore the point of my post. common tactic of someone who has lost the argument.

ill say it again: Im not sure how even the most ardent of TT fans can honestly say he has put enough resources into making the ILB and TE positions above average. They don't need to be great, just above average.

[Striker]

way to ignore the point of my post. common tactic of someone who has lost the argument.

ill say it again: Im not sure how even the most ardent of TT fans can honestly say he has put enough resources into making the ILB and TE positions above average. They don't need to be great, just above average.

If you were someone actually interested in debating, I'd put in some effort. But your modus operandi is more than clear.

You cherry pick replies, you don't respond to people challenging you, and you don't contribute in any way here outside of your own one note threads.

[Pugger]

and some can't accept the similarity between signing Talib because they lost Rodgers-Cromartie by Denver, and Green Bay simply resigning Shields.

When you have to sign a high value FA because you lost a high value FA, is it really any different than just hanging on to your own high value FA instead? They did not add Talib to their talent pool, they replaced Rodgers-Cromartie with Talib. Maybe an improvement, maybe not, maybe a draw, but from a roster building concept it varies very little from GB have managed to keep Shields.

Signing your own players isn't as sexy and exciting as signing other teams' FAs.

[mraynrand]

If you were someone actually interested in debating, I'd put in some effort. But your modus operandi is more than clear.

You cherry pick replies, you don't respond to people challenging you, and you don't contribute in any way here outside of your own one note threads.

http://cdn.meme.am/instances/66306776.jpg

[Pugger]

+1,000

How much different would the Packers' seasons gone over the past few years if they had been able to grab Von Miller in 2011 rather than Sherrod? Of course, Denver drafted second that year and GB 32nd.

Denver stunk so they got the 2nd pick in that draft. Carolina stunk and got the first pick in that draft - Cam Newton. Maybe we should stink more so we can pick at the top of the draft?

[RonWolfGOAT]

If you were someone actually interested in debating, I'd put in some effort. But your modus operandi is more than clear.

You cherry pick replies, you don't respond to people challenging you, and you don't contribute in any way here outside of your own one note threads.

which challenge did I not reply to? I'll do it now, maybe I missed it.

[Striker]

way to ignore the point of my post. common tactic of someone who has lost the argument.

ill say it again: Im not sure how even the most ardent of TT fans can honestly say he has put enough resources into making the ILB and TE positions above average. They don't need to be great, just above average.

Whatever, I'll try:

"Effort" (because it sure feels good to be 'trying' harder) could be better. Though if you look at it with some perspective you'll see why they did what they did. COMING INTO this season with Matthews and Barrington in the middle it seemed like there was finally some stability at the ILB position.

Same with TE - theoretically Rodgers should improve and Quarless was solid. So with a 3rd rounder invested and a vet returning you'd get production in line with most teams that don't have a Gronk or another freak-ish LB at the position.

Can he do more THIS season? Absolutely? But they've dumped players into those positions and occasionally you have to trust your players and coaches to step up.

[Striker]

which challenge did I not reply to? I'll do it now, maybe I missed it.

...did you not read the first thread you started on this forum?

[RonWolfGOAT]

Whatever, I'll try:

"Effort" (because it sure feels good to be 'trying' harder) could be better. Though if you look at it with some perspective you'll see why they did what they did. COMING INTO this season with Matthews and Barrington in the middle it seemed like there was finally some stability at the ILB position.

Same with TE - theoretically Rodgers should improve and Quarless was solid. So with a 3rd rounder invested and a vet returning you'd get production in line with most teams that don't have a Gronk or another freak-ish LB at the position.

Can he do more THIS season? Absolutely? But they've dumped players into those positions and occasionally you have to trust your players and coaches to step up.

Barrington? A midget taken in the 7th round? That's who you are relying on?

I think Rodgers can be a Bubba Franks type at TE but thats about it. That was evident his rookie season. Or did Ted think somehow he'd get faster? Quarless caught 29 passes in 2014, not even 2 a game. Not someone you want to hang your hat on, especially since he's a veteran and has maxed out.

[Patler]

Barrington? A midget taken in the 7th round? That's who you are relying on?


Is a "midget" from the 5th round of another team's draft, who was waived 3 times and spent a few seasons on the PS a more aggressive, more certain approach to get a linebacker to rely on?

Sam Barrington - 6'1", 246 lbs., 7th round 2013
Brandon Marshall- 6'1", 250 lbs, 5th round 2012 by Jacksonville, waived 3 times by Jacksonville, spent time on PS of both Jacksoonville and Denver.

So why is it so wrong for the Packers, yet smart for Denver to use similar size linebackers with very modest starts to the NFL?

[pbmax]

You're not sure if this team is better? Elway took a pretty good defense and made it an all time great one via the draft and key free agents. Statistically that is indisputable.

He also has no offense left. His O line is decimated and he signed the Corpse of Vernon Davis to be his TE.

This one is directed to an earlier post: The Broncos did not sign Sanders to be an upgrade to Decker. They wanted Decker back. Sanders was the consolation prize.

Their best offense with Peyton had Decker AND Thomas.

[esoxx]

Signing your own players isn't as sexy and exciting as signing other teams' FAs.

Especially when those players are the ilk of Brad Jones & AJ Hawk. :satan:

[yetisnowman]

He also has no offense left. His O line is decimated and he signed the Corpse of Vernon Davis to be his TE.

This one is directed to an earlier post: The Broncos did not sign Sanders to be an upgrade to Decker. They wanted Decker back. Sanders was the consolation prize.

Their best offense with Peyton had Decker AND Thomas.

They wanted Decker back? So much so they didn't offer him a contract. And they didn't sign Vernon Davis to be THE tight end. They traded one/two 7th round picks for him, hoping he could contribute along with the 2 other Tes they had.

Don't forget Peyton had HGH on his side in 2013 as well.

Other than facts your post is spot on.

[Zool]

He also has no offense left. His O line is decimated and he signed the Corpse of Vernon Davis to be his TE.

This one is directed to an earlier post: The Broncos did not sign Sanders to be an upgrade to Decker. They wanted Decker back. Sanders was the consolation prize.

Their best offense with Peyton had Decker AND Thomas.

And Thomas

[Zool]

way to ignore the point of my post. common tactic of someone who has lost the argument.

ill say it again: Im not sure how even the most ardent of TT fans can honestly say he has put enough resources into making the ILB and TE positions above average. They don't need to be great, just above average.

I WANNA SHOUT THE LOUD WORDS IN BOLD TEXT! I DON"T LIKE A THING! I HAVE INTERNET ANONYMITY SO I'LL SHOUT IT HERE AND HOPE PEOPLE RESPOND TO MY TROLLING SO I CAN UNZIP WHILE MOM MAKES ME PIZZA ROLLS!

[mraynrand]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kzKcDqMGc4

[Zool]

^ this guy has the best reviews of Starwars Ep1 through Ep3 that you will ever see.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I WANNA SHOUT THE LOUD WORDS IN BOLD TEXT! I DON"T LIKE A THING! I HAVE INTERNET ANONYMITY SO I'LL SHOUT IT HERE AND HOPE PEOPLE RESPOND TO MY TROLLING SO I CAN UNZIP WHILE MOM MAKES ME PIZZA ROLLS!

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/BQMN-70SBtY/hqdefault.jpg

[3irty1]

The focus on Elway's FA moves is burying the lead story here. The story where Elway's coaches got him to the big game then he made a regime change anyways. The FA moves are a symptom of that single bold decision to bring in Kubiak and Phillips who in turn brought brought in their respective toys (Daniels, Ware) as usually happens with a regime change.

There is no reason for the Packers to make such moves with the continuity of MM and Capers. They handpicked their pieces over the course of years. The real question we should be asking is would we benefit from a bold regime change like Denver did?

[run pMc]

Just about every team (if not every team) uses FA more than TT does; so if the Packers aren't in the SB this will be a discussion topic until TT retires. I think it would be interesting to consider what the storylines in Denver would be had they lost to Carolina or NE.
I do think TT needs to consider using TT more. I don't doubt they test the waters and ask about players (or talk to agents), but I don't think they are aggressive compared to other teams.

Most on this board agree TT needs to find upgrades at ILB and TE.
M3 also needs to restructure his coaching staff.

Should be an interesting offseason.

[pbmax]

They wanted Decker back? So much so they didn't offer him a contract. And they didn't sign Vernon Davis to be THE tight end. They traded one/two 7th round picks for him, hoping he could contribute along with the 2 other Tes they had.

Don't forget Peyton had HGH on his side in 2013 as well.

Other than facts your post is spot on.

He priced himself out of Denver. His deal was for 5 years/$15milGuaranteed/$36.5milOverall. He said, quote: "There was no official offer from (the Broncos)." The translation of which is, we gave them our demands and they would not agree to meet them. Hence, no official offer.

Sanders was signed for 3 years/$6mil/$18mil. Denver wasn't improving itself with Sanders, it was plugging a hole.

[pbmax]

^ this guy has the best reviews of Starwars Ep1 through Ep3 that you will ever see.

Leave a comment on this web zone if you want a pizza roll.

Pro-to-gon-ist.

[yetisnowman]

He priced himself out of Denver. His deal was for 5 years/$15milGuaranteed/$36.5milOverall. He said, quote: "There was no official offer from (the Broncos)." The translation of which is, we gave them our demands and they would not agree to meet them. Hence, no official offer.

Sanders was signed for 3 years/$6mil/$18mil. Denver wasn't improving itself with Sanders, it was plugging a hole.

Maybe they thought they could get comparable production/a better fit for their football team for less money? Maybe this also is an example of a non complacent, savvy GM? Your initial post is completely misleading....consolation prize implies they went after Decker and he chose NYJ....so Sanders was the backup/stopgap/,bailout move.
Looks pretty smart now doesn't it?
The homerism spin is funny....trying to minimize Elway's influence on the Broncos success. He built a spectacular defense, and his offense is far from decimated. The line needs work, but two pro bowl caliber receivers, solid rb tandem, and flexibility with Peyton likely to retire. Elway has done a great job Pretending he hasn't is beyond silly.

[denverYooper]

Does Elway get double credit for blowing the Elvis Dumerville contract restructuring/waiver? And then needing to sign Ware?

They made sure to get the fax fixed before they negotiated with Ware.

Ware has been OK but they would have been even more effective with Dumervil.

But their defense didn't really take off until Malik Jackson and Derrick Wolfe grew into a pair of very good linemen. Wolfe has really been a force this year. Both of those guys (and Chris Harris) were homegrown.

[pbmax]

Maybe they thought they could get comparable production/a better fit for their football team for less money? Maybe this also is an example of a non complacent, savvy GM? Your initial post is completely misleading....consolation prize implies they went after Decker and he chose NYJ....so Sanders was the backup/stopgap/,bailout move.
Looks pretty smart now doesn't it?
The homerism spin is funny....trying to minimize Elway's influence on the Broncos success. He built a spectacular defense, and his offense is far from decimated. The line needs work, but two pro bowl caliber receivers, solid rb tandem, and flexibility with Peyton likely to retire. Elway has done a great job Pretending he hasn't is beyond silly.

Maybe they thought a Unicorn would make a perfect TE.

However, we do not need to speculate about the plan. They were already cap compressed (that was the genesis of the Dumerville issue) and Decker had such a monster year that the press was talking about how he was playing himself out of Denver during the season unless he took a hometown discount. Everyone knew before the end of the season that they couldn't afford all their FAs and Decker was one of the most expensive by year's end. They didn't need to chase because they knew he was gone.

The contract tells you all you need to know about their relative value.

Now Sanders has been good. And their pro personnel dept and Elway deserve credit for choosing him. But the Broncos offense has not been the same. Its not all Decker, but even terrible basketball teams have a 20 point per game player.

The point is, as Patler has been saying, that not all UFA signings are upgrades. And sometimes street FA signings work out just as well.

[yetisnowman]

Maybe they thought a Unicorn would make a perfect TE.

However, we do not need to speculate about the plan. They were already cap compressed (that was the genesis of the Dumerville issue) and Decker had such a monster year that the press was talking about how he was playing himself out of Denver during the season unless he took a hometown discount. Everyone knew before the end of the season that they couldn't afford all their FAs and Decker was one of the most expensive by year's end. They didn't need to chase because they knew he was gone.

The contract tells you all you need to know about their relative value.

Now Sanders has been good. And their pro personnel dept and Elway deserve credit for choosing him. But the Broncos offense has not been the same. Its not all Decker, but even terrible basketball teams have a 20 point per game player.

The point is, as Patler has been saying, that not all UFA signings are upgrades. And sometimes street FA signings work out just as well.

Ok that's the point. Got ut. Well I agree. It doesn't always work out this way. The point is it can. And a lot of recent champions have had significant contributions from fa signings. And a lot of us feel TT is so married to the draft/develop/resign/sign an impact free agent every 7 years model that at times it could hold us back.

[Bretsky]

If Aaron Rodgers retires and we're Ron Wolf's fart in the wind I wonder if members in here will look back and question is TT should have shot for the moon once or twice

[denverYooper]

The focus on Elway's FA moves is burying the lead story here. The story where Elway's coaches got him to the big game then he made a regime change anyways. The FA moves are a symptom of that single bold decision to bring in Kubiak and Phillips who in turn brought brought in their respective toys (Daniels, Ware) as usually happens with a regime change.

There is no reason for the Packers to make such moves with the continuity of MM and Capers. They handpicked their pieces over the course of years. The real question we should be asking is would we benefit from a bold regime change like Denver did?

Many on the Fox Broncos staff were headed out the door at that point anyway. JDR had spent the week before their loss to the Colts trying to get the Raiders job. Adam Gase as well was trying to land his own promotion elsewhere. Even John Fox was rumored to be interested in the Bears job before the game. There was a lot of concern that the staff just mailed it in for that loss to the Colts.

Word is that Fox was given the opportunity to stay with certain conditions but did not want to do so. His relationship with Elway had been going south and he wanted to get out

It wasn't really a matter of Elway just making a regime change because he felt that was needed. The staff had wandered and winnowed and had grown tired of working under Elway.

[Patler]

If Aaron Rodgers retires and we're Ron Wolf's fart in the wind I wonder if members in here will look back and question is TT should have shot for the moon once or twice

Funny thing is, Ron Wolf didn't do much in the FA market after the SB win either. I have argued Wolf didn't really accomplish a lot after the SB; so I guess I would argue the same about TT if they don't make another run.

[pbmax]

Many on the Fox Broncos staff were headed out the door at that point anyway. JDR had spent the week before their loss to the Colts trying to get the Raiders job. Adam Gase as well was trying to land his own promotion elsewhere. Even John Fox was rumored to be interested in the Bears job before the game. There was a lot of concern that the staff just mailed it in for that loss to the Colts.

Word is that Fox was given the opportunity to stay with certain conditions but did not want to do so. His relationship with Elway had been going south and he wanted to get out

It wasn't really a matter of Elway just making a regime change because he felt that was needed. The staff had wandered and winnowed and had grown tired of working under Elway.

Gase and Del Rio were up for advancement though, did Fox start hunting for a job before the rumors started that Elway wanted to do something else?

I can see Elway saying that without Gase and Del Rio that he wasn't all in on for Fox the following year.

[denverYooper]

Gase and Del Rio were up for advancement though, did Fox start hunting for a job before the rumors started that Elway wanted to do something else?

I can see Elway saying that without Gase and Del Rio that he wasn't all in on for Fox the following year.

There was a bizarre Glazer report before the Colts playoff game that Fox could become available for one of the open positions if the Broncos lost. That report came out prior to the game, which was strange timing, and came off smelling like Fox (or Elway) leaked something. The main point was that Fox ended up out because he and Elway didn't get along anymore.

Gase ended as Fox's OC in Chicago last year so I don't know how likely it is that he wouldn't have stayed with Fox in Denver. I do think it was a surprise that he didn't get his HC shot a year earlier.

[pbmax]

There was a bizarre Glazer report before the Colts playoff game that Fox could become available for one of the open positions if the Broncos lost. That report came out prior to the game, which was strange timing, and came off smelling like Fox (or Elway) leaked something. The main point was that Fox ended up out because he and Elway didn't get along anymore.

Gase ended as Fox's OC in Chicago last year so I don't know how likely it is that he wouldn't have stayed with Fox in Denver. I do think it was a surprise that he didn't get his HC shot a year earlier.

Gase spent a long time chasing the 49er job and then they put conditions on it he didn't like and apparently felt he couldn't accept.

I do remember that Glazer report that the coach of a successful team might be open to leaving. I just have this vague sense that there was trouble before that. But I do not remember specifics. I do know most people thought Gase was gone after the two years he put together with Manning.