Karlos Dansby wants to play for the Packers

[RonWolfGOAT]

Linebacker Karlos Dansby, whom the Browns released Wednesday,*would like to join*the Cardinals, Bengals or Packers, writes Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “Yeah, I think the Bengals are licking their chops right now,” he said. “I hope they are. We’ll see what it is.” Notably, Dansby started his career in Arizona as a second-round pick in 2004 and piled up 25.5 sacks before leaving after the 2009 season.*



So thats TWO inside linebackers who say they want to play for GB, the other being Trevathan. Maybe Ted will pick up the phone.

[Pugger]

Isn't Dansby getting long in the tooth tho?

[RonWolfGOAT]

Isn't Dansby getting long in the tooth tho?

Yes. So was Andre Rison, Seth Joyner, Bruce Wilkerson, Eugene Robinson and Keith Jackson.

[Fritz]

Yes. So was Andre Rison, Seth Joyner, Bruce Wilkerson, Eugene Robinson and Keith Jackson.

But none of them was released by the Cleveland Browns.

[wist43]

But none of them was released by the Cleveland Browns.

Nothing can be judged by way of the Browns!! They are the poster-child for poorly run organizations.

[George Cumby]

Yes. So was Andre Rison, Seth Joyner, Bruce Wilkerson, Eugene Robinson and Keith Jackson.

You forgot that gem of a free agent pick up that pushed us over the edge and led us to another Super Bowl triumph: Hardy Nickerson.

Oh, never mind...............

[RonWolfGOAT]

You forgot that gem of a free agent pick up that pushed us over the edge and led us to another Super Bowl triumph: Hardy Nickerson.

Oh, never mind...............


Some of them work out, some of them don't.

Is Julius Peppers a bad pick up because we haven't won a SB with him?

[KYPack]

But none of them was released by the Cleveland Browns.

Yer only right on a technicality.

Rison played for the Browns and was cut by that organization.

But that was in the '96 off-season, so the Browns were now the Ravens.

I'm telling Drew Barrymore.

[Guiness]

Yer only right on a technicality.

Rison played for the Browns and was cut by that organization.

But that was in the '96 off-season, so the Browns were now the Ravens.

I'm telling Drew Barrymore.

Ravens...would that be the organization who has one two (2) SBs since the move? I'm trying to figure out how much stink he may or may not have had on him.

[George Cumby]

Some of them work out, some of them don't.

Is Julius Peppers a bad pick up because we haven't won a SB with him?

Very good point! And I agree with the main gist of your post which is that TT signs Free Agents, some of whom work out very nicely like Julius Peppers. And that Ron Wolf, the GOAT, I understand, missed on some FA's like Nickerson and Joyner.

[run pMc]

Dansby is not the answer for a coverage ILB. TT won't touch him, he's too old. He's going to double dip in the draft, like he's done lately: 2 DL, 2OL, 2LB...

[RonWolfGOAT]

Dansby is not the answer for a coverage ILB.


Top 5 LBs by PFF Coverage Rating:
1. Karlos Dansby 94
2. Thomas Davis 92
3. Luke Kuechly 91
4. Jerrell Freeman 90
5. Brandon Marshall 89


Like are we really at the point with TT fans that they will actually lie about a players attributes just to defend TT?

[pbmax]

Some of them work out, some of them don't.

Is Julius Peppers a bad pick up because we haven't won a SB with him?

No, but Seth Joyner was objectively terrible. And I don't know about the PFF coverage stat. Jerrell Freeman was not on a lot of people's lists because he was considered a 2 down LB I believe.

[RonWolfGOAT]

No, but Seth Joyner was objectively terrible. And I don't know about the PFF coverage stat. Jerrell Freeman was not on a lot of people's lists because he was considered a 2 down LB I believe.

I'll take your word on Seth Joyner since I was pretty young at the time. But its not like it was a mistake that put the team into cap hell.

[pbmax]

I'll take your word on Seth Joyner since I was pretty young at the time. But its not like it was a mistake that put the team into cap hell.

Not Joyner alone, but Wolf was pretty tight against in by the end of that decade, which is part of why he got disillusioned and retired.

So Dansby's contract demand is definitely a factor. Packers paying their top 10 guys a lot. He didn't name four playoff teams by mistake. Just like Trevathan, he wants a market to build.

[hoosier]

But none of them was released by the Cleveland Browns.

Rison was released by the Jaguars. Granted that was when Jacksonville was competitive....

[Striker]

Top 5 LBs by PFF Coverage Rating:
1. Karlos Dansby 94
2. Thomas Davis 92
3. Luke Kuechly 91
4. Jerrell Freeman 90
5. Brandon Marshall 89


Like are we really at the point with TT fans that they will actually lie about a players attributes just to defend TT?

Like are we really at the point where irrational haters have to make dumb ass comments when another player signs/trades a player? Or where we have to assume that just because a player makes an offhand comment about the Packers that it means ZOMG THEY WANTED TO COME HERE?

[woodbuck27]

Nobody wants a DANSBY anymore?

It's not a wind up toy.

[Tony Oday]

I hope we bring him in. It's been a shit show at ILB, take a chance, draft well and have them beat out KD in two years.

[ThunderDan]

Like are we really at the point where irrational haters have to make dumb ass comments when another player signs/trades a player? Or where we have to assume that just because a player makes an offhand comment about the Packers that it means ZOMG THEY WANTED TO COME HERE?

RWG's posting style reminds me a lot of rbaloha. He could never let anything go.


579!!!

[run pMc]

Note the dates

https://www.reddit.com/r/Browns/comments/3j5mob/karlos_dansby_the_top_rated_coverage_linebacker/?
[–]TweetPoster 1 point 6 months ago
@PFF:
2015-09-01 00:22:17 UTC
Top 5 LBs by PFF Coverage Rating: 1. Karlos Dansby 94 2. Thomas Davis 92 3. Luke Kuechly 91 4. Jerrell Freeman 90 5. Brandon Marshall 89

I don't have access to PFF, so i don't have Dansby's final numbers, but this was Jan 13, 2016:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/01/13/pro-pffs-best-coverage-defender-award-luke-kuechly-no-1/

By the end of the season, Kuechly had allowed a passer rating of just 57.8 into his coverage—the best among all LBs—despite that number being hurt by his matchups with Julio Jones late in the season, a receiver even the best defensive backs in the league can’t cover, let alone a linebacker. The league average passer rating surrendered by a LB this season was 102.5, so targeting Kuechly as opposed to any other linebacker immediately causes a 45-point drop in passer rating.

That said, I'm pretty sure Dansby will want more money and a starting spot...which TT isn't going to give over his young guys, not at Dansby's age.

[Tony Oday]

That said, I'm pretty sure Dansby will want more money and a starting spot...which TT isn't going to give over his young guys, not at Dansby's age.

I don't agree at all. Peppers was an old FA and he was allowed to start over the young guys.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Note the dates

https://www.reddit.com/r/Browns/comments/3j5mob/karlos_dansby_the_top_rated_coverage_linebacker/?
[–]TweetPoster 1 point 6 months ago
@PFF:
2015-09-01 00:22:17 UTC
Top 5 LBs by PFF Coverage Rating: 1. Karlos Dansby 94 2. Thomas Davis 92 3. Luke Kuechly 91 4. Jerrell Freeman 90 5. Brandon Marshall 89

I don't have access to PFF, so i don't have Dansby's final numbers, but this was Jan 13, 2016:
https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2016/01/13/pro-pffs-best-coverage-defender-award-luke-kuechly-no-1/

That said, I'm pretty sure Dansby will want more money and a starting spot...which TT isn't going to give over his young guys, not at Dansby's age.

Dansby finished the year 5th by PFF in coverage among LBs. While I respect the work PFF does, they are just one tool in trying to evaluate a player (like a QB rating or QBR). I'll look at some of their ratings for Packers players, and there are some head scratchers. I think Casey Hayward was one that always seemed to be overrated by PFF. I couldn't tell you how good Dansby is in coverage though, as I haven't watched a lot of Cleveland games recently. That being said, the Packers have about $4-5M to spend. That is if they have no interest in bringing Mike Neal back. If Dansby wants more than about $3M/year, he'll probably have to go elsewhere. Same with Jared Cook.

The worry is that Dansby is 34. I know Peppers and Woodson have defied father time, but he's at the point where he could drop off at any time. Hardy Nickerson comes to mind.

[George Cumby]

All jousting with RWG aside, it'd be worth bringing him in to kick the tires.

[Bretsky]

You forgot that gem of a free agent pick up that pushed us over the edge and led us to another Super Bowl triumph: Hardy Nickerson.

Oh, never mind...............


I don't think we paid that much for Nickerson; if you want to infinitely defend TT you could use Joe Johnson as an example.

[Bretsky]

No, but Seth Joyner was objectively terrible. And I don't know about the PFF coverage stat. Jerrell Freeman was not on a lot of people's lists because he was considered a 2 down LB I believe.

Giving Joyner a shot didn't hurt our finances

[woodbuck27]

Browns released ILB Karlos Dansby.

34-year-old play slipped in 2015, but he's still a quality starter. He graded out as Pro Football Focus' No. 3 inside linebacker in coverage and is a known playmaker.

Dansby will be looking for a contender.

The Browns save $3.5 million against the cap with the move to cut ties with him.

[George Cumby]

I don't think we paid that much for Nickerson; if you want to infinitely defend TT you could use Joe Johnson as an example.

Johnson was brought on by Sherman, correct? I thought the underlying premise of this thread was comparing TT to Ron Wolf, the GOAT......

[George Cumby]

Giving Joyner a shot didn't hurt our finances

And didn't help in the W-L column, either. He was well and truly done.

[Bretsky]

Johnson was brought on by Sherman, correct? I thought the underlying premise of this thread was comparing TT to Ron Wolf, the GOAT......

Yes, you are right then.

It's an easy comparison. Ron Wolf was not afraid to make the big splash in a different era. He was a lot more John Elway and Mike Reinfeldt than Ted Thompson

Ted Thompson occasionally bargain shops in free agency. Had anybody really wanted Woodson we don't land him either.

Guys like Ron Wolf are not afraid of shooting for the moon at the risk of a season or two. TT likes stability

I don't get much of the criticism RonWolfGoat takes. Many of the points he makes, like them or agree with them or not, are accurate.

He subscribes to Ron Wolf/Elway/Reinfeldt............not the draft and develop major TT is. Sometimes TT mixed it in with a speckle of free agency but everybody know's it's not TT's forte......the press/writers/Packer fans.

Some just choose to defend him to death and some choose to criticize him for it.

If we only win one SB with Aaron Rodgers it will be a shame

[Bretsky]

And didn't help in the W-L column, either. He was well and truly done.

But he was cheap and worth the try. Some work (Sean Jones/Eugene Robinson/Santana Dotson)....some don't.

It's OK to swing and miss sometimes as well.

The constant debate is....should we swing at all ?

[smuggler]

TT brought in Pickett on Pickett's 2nd contract. Very Wolf-esque.

[Bretsky]

agree smuggler; Ted stepped outside his box for that one

[Fritz]

Yes, you are right then.

It's an easy comparison. Ron Wolf was not afraid to make the big splash in a different era. He was a lot more John Elway and Mike Reinfeldt than Ted Thompson

Ted Thompson occasionally bargain shops in free agency. Had anybody really wanted Woodson we don't land him either.

Guys like Ron Wolf are not afraid of shooting for the moon at the risk of a season or two. TT likes stability

I don't get much of the criticism RonWolfGoat takes. Many of the points he makes, like them or agree with them or not, are accurate.

He subscribes to Ron Wolf/Elway/Reinfeldt............not the draft and develop major TT is. Sometimes TT mixed it in with a speckle of free agency but everybody know's it's not TT's forte......the press/writers/Packer fans.

Some just choose to defend him to death and some choose to criticize him for it.

If we only win one SB with Brett Favre it will be a shame



See above line.

Both methods have their advantages and disadvantages. Each method has garnered Green Bay one SB win.

[Bretsky]

How many years did each one have ?

I think Rodgers is a MUCH better QB in the playoffs due to his INT's......or lack of them.

Rodgers is a better QB IMO as well

[Patler]

Ultimately, coaches are the final factor in whether or not super bowls are won. I believe both Wolf and Thompson provided rosters capable of winning 2nd super bowls. Their head coaches didn't complete the task.

[Patler]

There is a logical disconnect in the Wolf TT debates. TT is criticized for not being more like Wolf, because he has won only one Super Bowl. Why isn't Wolf criticized for not having been more like TT because he won only one Super Bowl?

[3irty1]

Yes, you are right then.

It's an easy comparison. Ron Wolf was not afraid to make the big splash in a different era. He was a lot more John Elway and Mike Reinfeldt than Ted Thompson

Ted Thompson occasionally bargain shops in free agency. Had anybody really wanted Woodson we don't land him either.

Guys like Ron Wolf are not afraid of shooting for the moon at the risk of a season or two. TT likes stability

I don't get much of the criticism RonWolfGoat takes. Many of the points he makes, like them or agree with them or not, are accurate.

He subscribes to Ron Wolf/Elway/Reinfeldt............not the draft and develop major TT is. Sometimes TT mixed it in with a speckle of free agency but everybody know's it's not TT's forte......the press/writers/Packer fans.

Some just choose to defend him to death and some choose to criticize him for it.

If we only win one SB with Aaron Rodgers it will be a shame

Ron Wolf was GM during the advent of non plan B free agency, a completely different climate than TT or Elway have today. In the early 90's Wolf was left with favorable new rules, a huge fanbase, lots of money, large disparities in talent between rosters, and league of new mercenaries who had been missing out on market value. It was the perfect storm of golden age free agency that will likely never be seen again, and neither should Ron's tactics.

By the end of Ron's career in GB the free agency quality had MASSIVELY dried up via the vicious circle of FA economics. Players use FA as leverage to get their teams to pay, players who resign weaken the FA supply further driving up FA prices due to scarcity. This increases leverage of players to get their teams to pay, and increases teams incentives to get their own players to resign, rinse, wash, repeat until every FA is a replaceable cog at ultra premium price.

I'd say TT, Wolf, and Elway are all similar in the way that matters most... They all went all in on a QB to kick off their reign. TT and Wolf also got their coach as well because their QB was young. The difference between Elway and TT that you're using to compare Elway to Wolf is desperation. Elway had nothing to lose. He got himself an old QB and built his team to compete in a rapidly closing window. With no future to mortgage he gambled and it payed off, aided in no small part by weak competition this season.

[wist43]

Ted simply doesn't care if he fills holes in a given year or not... by his reckoning, the hole will eventually be filled; and, in TT's world, 'eventually' is good enough.

TT is sooooooooooo myopic, that I don't think it matters to him whether we win anything or not. To TT, his process IS the goal. Wins and losses are incidental.

[Patler]

Ron Wolf was GM during the advent of non plan B free agency, a completely different climate than TT or Elway have today. In the early 90's Wolf was left with favorable new rules, a huge fanbase, lots of money, large disparities in talent between rosters, and league of new mercenaries who had been missing out on market value. It was the perfect storm of golden age free agency that will likely never be seen again, and neither should Ron's tactics.

By the end of Ron's career in GB the free agency quality had MASSIVELY dried up via the vicious circle of FA economics. Players use FA as leverage to get their teams to pay, players who resign weaken the FA supply further driving up FA prices due to scarcity. This increases leverage of players to get their teams to pay, and increases teams incentives to get their own players to resign, rinse, wash, repeat until every FA is a replaceable cog at ultra premium price.

I'd say TT, Wolf, and Elway are all similar in the way that matters most... They all went all in on a QB to kick off their reign. TT and Wolf also got their coach as well because their QB was young. The difference between Elway and TT that you're using to compare Elway to Wolf is desperation. Elway had nothing to lose. He got himself an old QB and built his team to compete in a rapidly closing window. With no future to mortgage he gambled and it payed off, aided in no small part by weak competition this season.


Well said. Very few teams handled the salary cap well in the early years. Remember the June 1 magic date? The dead cap hit for players cut then could be spread over two years. Some very good players became available then. In the last few years of the rule, no players were cut. The Packers and only a few other teams handled the cap well from the start, most did poorly.

Remember, too, when Wolf retired, he said one of the frustrating things was that it had become increasingly hard to "fix" your team. He mentioned that FA was no longer the opportunity it had been, that most players were FAs for a reason, because teams mostly were able to keep the players they want to keep.

[Patler]

TT brought in Pickett on Pickett's 2nd contract. Very Wolf-esque.


agree smuggler; Ted stepped outside his box for that one

Brandon Chiller, too.

[George Cumby]

It's an OUTRAGE that the Packers don't have Pro Bowlers at every position. An OUTRAGE!

I am so tired of going through the same shit every off season. The Packers are inactive during free agency, except for the players they resign.

THEN they go to the playoffs every season. It's a complete goat fuck and is irrefutable evidence that Ted doesn't care and wants to lose.

[run pMc]

For the record, I'm not against free agency. I don't think it's successful very often, unless you're picking up role players and fortifying your roster depth. Swinging for the fences via free agency rarely works out. (See: Redskins, Dolphins, etc.) The exception might be at QB, but few good QB's hit the market. Brees and Manning come to mind, but over the last number of years, that's about it. If you guess wrong on a big signing, you can really mess up your salary cap from the standpoint of being able to keep your own, rising, and often much younger talent. If it comes down to choosing between the two, I can understand keeping your own (who knows your system and you know as well) vs. bringing in an outsider with a big contract and expectations to match.

As for Dansby, I thought he was a great player several years back, but I'm not sure he still is. It's possible. I'm also not sure he'd be willing to come to GB for a reasonable contract, given the FA spending this season and what will likely be interest from needy teams driving his asking price up. Unlike some other years, it looks like there might be some ILB talent in the draft worth exploring.

My guess is that TT has someone in the front office dip toes in the waters, but usually nothing too serious, as they prefer going the younger, cheaper route (i.e., the draft) for roster building. As others have noted he has surprised in the past (Peppers, et al.) but to expect anything major is unrealistic.

[Rutnstrut]

It's an OUTRAGE that the Packers don't have Pro Bowlers at every position. An OUTRAGE!

I am so tired of going through the same shit every off season. The Packers are inactive during free agency, except for the players they resign.

THEN they go to the playoffs every season. It's a complete goat fuck and is irrefutable evidence that Ted doesn't care and wants to lose.

Well no one is saying to go out and spend his whole wad on a bunch of paper champions. But at least sign a few solid players where needed or make an effort. He may not want to lose, but he only wants to win HIS way. Which means he doesn't mind losing. Would you want a QB that will only throw a screen pass because that is what he likes? There needs to be some flexibility and willingness to fill out the team other than the draft. TT has repeatedly shown he will just throw the same shit at the wall HOPING some of it sticks. The window of opportunity with Rodgers is closing fast, and TT is squandering it away.

[George Cumby]

He may not want to lose, but he only wants to win HIS way. Which means he doesn't mind losing.

TT has repeatedly shown he will just throw the same shit at the wall HOPING some of it sticks.

The window of opportunity with Rodgers is closing fast, and TT is squandering it away.

Point #1: Say the fuck, WHAT?

Point #2: And this is different from every other GM how?

Point #3: This sounds eerily familiar......

[Fritz]

Ted simply doesn't care if he fills holes in a given year or not... by his reckoning, the hole will eventually be filled; and, in TT's world, 'eventually' is good enough.

TT is sooooooooooo myopic, that I don't think it matters to him whether we win anything or not. To TT, his process IS the goal. Wins and losses are incidental.

It doesn't matter to the GM whether they win anything or not?

Ohhhh-Kay.

[gbgary]

my thing is if you're not getting better (which is what it will take to win a SB), you're getting worse. needs aren't being addressed but are only being added to.

[Rutnstrut]

my thing is if you're not getting better (which is what it will take to win a SB), you're getting worse. needs aren't being addressed but are only being added to.

EXACTLY!!!!!!!

[red]

my thing is if you're not getting better (which is what it will take to win a SB), you're getting worse. needs aren't being addressed but are only being added to.

thats where i kind of at

we haven't done anything to improve, we've just tried to stay the same by keeping our own

to me, thats not really progress

[pbmax]

Health and a third year for Adams and Janis will improve this team. Not to mention Monty.

[Rutnstrut]

Health and a third year for Adams and Janis will improve this team. Not to mention Monty.

Adams can only get better, there is no way he could be worse.

[Guiness]

thats where i kind of at

we haven't done anything to improve, we've just tried to stay the same by keeping our own

to me, thats not really progress

Allow existing rising players to progress is the way a draft and develop team is supposed to improve. Making the idea to improve by staying the same.

[BZnDallas]

When your system is a draft and develop system, the progress comes from the develop part of that system...why is that so hard to understand... when you develop, you improve... that's the whole point... you don't always get to add the best players in every position through the draft... so the players you do get, you invest in them... give them time in your system... develop them... then 1 might get hurt, Barrington... you don't just kick him to the curb... you've already invested a 4th in Ryan... now he's developing... getting better (hopefully)... that's the way it works... you can't always add multiple players at the same position in the draft every year... then if you do, you don't always hit... like TT did with Randall and Rollins... guess that isn't a need anymore, like it was last year... but TT doesn't care about filling needs... hes just out there trying to lose every year... R. Rodgers isn't a barn burner, and not my favorite... i'm hoping he adds more talent to push the players we already have at ILB and TE... but the talent he does have at those positions he's developing... (is there a theme here)

Now when the draft comes... we all know TT is going to draft what he believes is BPA... especially in the early rounds... late on day 2 and day 3 is when we'll see picks based on more need and depth... that could happen in the early rounds but only if it meets the BPA factor as well... this draft is significant in that it has a lot of DL depth that could push other positions down to us in the first round, ala HaHa in his draft... the question is are players like Billings and Rankins hopefully going to go higher and hopefully push players like Dodd and Ragland down... or are players like Ragland and Dodd going to go higher and push players like Billings and Rankings down to us... Im hoping a number of WRs go high in the first round too... As many QBs, WRs, OTs, as we can get to get drafted high will hopefully push both the DL talent and that LB (inside and out) talent down to us that could definitely help...

[Guiness]

Health and a third year for Adams and Janis will improve this team. Not to mention Monty.

Crickets on the Monty front. I'm not holding my breath on that one, I've got a bad feeling 8-(

[BZnDallas]

I'm not even saying I like the way TT does it... but he has decided that is the way he is going to do it and he has been pretty consistent... at least give him that... I have friends who's teams don't come close to sniffing the playoffs the way our team does, much less seen their team win 2 championships in their lifetime (or more for you elder gents and ladies)... they tell me all the time how nice it must be... that's why I don't complain much... do I want to win more with Aaron... Hell yeah... I know my team is going to have a chance every year for the fore see able future...

[Bretsky]

Health and a third year for Adams and Janis will improve this team. Not to mention Monty.


WOW; was this post suppose to give us optimism ? If that is your best effort can you at least remove Adams :)

[pbmax]

WOW; was this post suppose to give us optimism ? If that is your best effort can you at least remove Adams :)

Even if he is nothing but the midpoint between his rookie and second year, he will help.

[Rutnstrut]

When your system is a draft and develop system, the progress comes from the develop part of that system...why is that so hard to understand... when you develop, you improve... that's the whole point... you don't always get to add the best players in every position through the draft... so the players you do get, you invest in them... give them time in your system... develop them... then 1 might get hurt, Barrington... you don't just kick him to the curb... you've already invested a 4th in Ryan... now he's developing... getting better (hopefully)... that's the way it works... you can't always add multiple players at the same position in the draft every year... then if you do, you don't always hit... like TT did with Randall and Rollins... guess that isn't a need anymore, like it was last year... but TT doesn't care about filling needs... hes just out there trying to lose every year... R. Rodgers isn't a barn burner, and not my favorite... i'm hoping he adds more talent to push the players we already have at ILB and TE... but the talent he does have at those positions he's developing... (is there a theme here)

Now when the draft comes... we all know TT is going to draft what he believes is BPA... especially in the early rounds... late on day 2 and day 3 is when we'll see picks based on more need and depth... that could happen in the early rounds but only if it meets the BPA factor as well... this draft is significant in that it has a lot of DL depth that could push other positions down to us in the first round, ala HaHa in his draft... the question is are players like Billings and Rankins hopefully going to go higher and hopefully push players like Dodd and Ragland down... or are players like Ragland and Dodd going to go higher and push players like Billings and Rankings down to us... Im hoping a number of WRs go high in the first round too... As many QBs, WRs, OTs, as we can get to get drafted high will hopefully push both the DL talent and that LB (inside and out) talent down to us that could definitely help...

The huge downside to giving everyone their time to flourish and grow. Your all pro QB will get old and degrade. By the time Ted grows the rest of his garden, his prize rose bush (Rodgers) may wither away. Chances are pretty slim on hitting on a 3rd all pro QB in a row.

[woodbuck27]

my thing is if you're not getting better (which is what it will take to win a SB), you're getting worse. needs aren't being addressed but are only being added to.

BINGO !

TT has an ego issue and that lends to an overall personality that certainly retards the Green Bay Packers and A Rod et all ever winning another Super Bowl. That is especially evident in his generally laissez- faire attitude and Free Agency's overall potential impact on improving on last season's roster potential.

I see t0o many members here just 'Trust in Ted Thompson'. This isn't like a religion where Faith dominates as the foundation of all your beliefs. The team isn't playing Horseshoes... where coming close is rewarded. We are dealing with satisfying more so being in the running for a better opportunity and winning another SUPER BOWL. Nothing but that goal is acceptable to this member of Packer Nation.

Any NFL team GM that has any sense and Aaron Rodgers is going a lot more 'all in' than TT seems capable of. Ted Thompson again has an ego issue that clash with my expectations of him. Ted Thompson simply lucked out when Aaron Rodgers fell to him. Winning thst first Super Bowl only ranks him as an NFL GM as being lucky...then. I want Ted Thompson to set himself clear of that descriptive term.....ant that to no avail given he has arguably on Packer Nations Team; Aaron Rodgers as his QB.

Ted Thompson frustrates me. I'll be ecstatic when he retires.

I hope so much that will be soon because the Packers won't win the prize with TT's ego attitude. So no more GO Pack GO's or GO PACKERS. To have that cheer is too much blind faith.

[Patler]

Ted simply doesn't care if he fills holes in a given year or not... by his reckoning, the hole will eventually be filled; and, in TT's world, 'eventually' is good enough.

TT is sooooooooooo myopic, that I don't think it matters to him whether we win anything or not. To TT, his process IS the goal. Wins and losses are incidental.

Wins aren't incidental, they are the natural result of the process.

Maybe TT realizes that every team always has those holes, and the key to continued success is to keep the size of a hole small. Maybe he realizes that trying too hard to fill one hole usually creates another hole

[George Cumby]

TT has an ego issue

I see t0o many members here just 'Trust in Ted Thompson'. This isn't like a religion where Faith dominates as the foundation of all your beliefs.

Ted Thompson simply lucked out when Aaron Rodgers fell to him.

Ted Thompson frustrates me. I'll be ecstatic when he retires..

Point #1: This is clearly evident by Teds flashy style, the way he drives around in a new sports car every month with a string of Green Bay Hotties and Musky Queens dangling off of his arms. Of particular note is the way he conducts himself during pressers, the guy is so clearly in love with himself; the way he loves to hear himself talk! Sheesh! Also, someone needs to get this hurricane of self love to tone down his ward robe. The khakis and muted toned polo shirts scream "Look at me! Look at me! Look at me now! It's fun to be Ted IF you know how!" Total egomaniac. Yes, Teds rampant ego and self infatuation are out there for every one to see and its reflected by the teams persona; that's why we have all of these Diva's and me-first players that are hard to cheer for. I only wish Ted were as modest, self effacing and humble like that paragon of humility Jerry Jones.

Point #2: So? You have your Messiah, I have mine. Different strokes for different folks. Freedom of Religion and all that jazz.

Point #3: I'm so fucking tired of that stupid argument. It's like that Rocky and Bullwinkle skit; you imbeciles bring this up every year "Hey Rocky, watch me pull a rabbit out of my hat!" Those of us who aren't imbeciles say "Agaaaaaaaaaaain?". Now here comes the lions head of fact: 23 other GM's didn't have the brains to pull the trigger on Rodgers and wish they did. How many of those fucking guys are still employed? Ted had the brains and the brass balls to do so. But for you and your ilk, When Ted picks well it's luck but if it's bad luck, i.e.: Sherrod, it's a bad pick. Whatev, Champ.

Point #4: Be careful for what you wish for.

[Patler]

my thing is if you're not getting better (which is what it will take to win a SB), you're getting worse. needs aren't being addressed but are only being added to.

In the last three years they have gotten better at RB, center, DB, backup QB, probably DL, too. Last year before tc I would have said WR, too, but that is now in question. Other areas may have regressed, but that is the way it always goes.

[Patler]

I have to agree with George Cumby. It's funny that people who work with TT often comment that he has no ego at all.

[BZnDallas]

The huge downside to giving everyone their time to flourish and grow. Your all pro QB will get old and degrade. By the time Ted grows the rest of his garden, his prize rose bush (Rodgers) may wither away. Chances are pretty slim on hitting on a 3rd all pro QB in a row.

You get no disagreement outta me with your retort Rut. That certainly seems like a downside to this system. However there are downsides to every system though. And we dont necessarily see the downsides of other systems because ours has been somewhat successful. Except we do, Cleveland, Oakland and Washington for a long time, among others. You can certainly make a case for the Seattle's, and teams like that. But now is the transition time for Seattle. They are starting to lose talent. OT, LB, etc. Lets see how well they restock. We remain a top team in this league the way TT does it. Any we'll always have a chance with AR.

Now this notion or idea of TT having an ego. Hasn't it been reported that TTs days are numbered? Yet TT still stays with the system he set up. Is it more ego to stick with a system you already have in place or more ego to try an win another title while you're in charge at any cost? I'd say more ego to change philisophy and go after another at any cost. Yet TT sticks to his plan, the plan he has everybody in his organization set up to succeed with. We've been damn close the last couple years, lets see what TT has up his short sleeves.

[ThunderDan]

I have to agree with George Cumby. It's funny that people who work with TT often comment that he has no ego at all.

TT has no ego.

Can you imagine any other GM who would retire a HOF QBs number, with their other great HOF QBs coming back after a stroke for most likely his last visit to Lambeau, and not be on stage?

[BZnDallas]

If your team goes into a draft with only 2 holes and needing depth. Your team is in pretty good shape. Yes it might even be a need that has been a need a year or two in the making, but you cant fill everything every year. So this year CBs arent a need and ILB still is, even though they drafted one last year. Chances are another ILB gets drafted again. Unfortunately its not sexy to not be splashy. Stop looking for sexy in your football team and leave that for your ladies... hopefully

[Rutnstrut]

The thing is I think one or two FA signings COMBINED with smart drafting could put this team over the top. I don't think they need to go nuts, but supplementing the draft with a little free agency could be a great thing. You would think if TT is the braintrust that people claim, he could easily do this. But instead it has to be his way, and his way only. Nah, no ego there.

[BZnDallas]

The thing is I think one or two FA signings COMBINED with smart drafting could put this team over the top. I don't think they need to go nuts, but supplementing the draft with a little free agency could be a great thing. You would think if TT is the braintrust that people claim, he could easily do this. But instead it has to be his way, and his way only. Nah, no ego there.

I dont want to put words in anybody elses mouth here. But I'm pretty sure most people would agree with most of what you said here Rut. Ive never heard anyone call him a braintrust before though. They have however called him consistent. If you have a plan, and break away from that plan, just once, it makes it easier to break away the next time. Take it from me, im a large individual. Anytime i try to get healthy and i break away from it, its a free for all. I commend TT to sticking to his guns even though people bitch and complain about him every year.

Again with this Fn ego thing. This man is in professional sports. If you DONT have one, you prob wont win. Get over it already. If he didnt have one, you'd bitch about that too. Id still say its less of an ego to stay with his plan than it is for him to go broke trying to win 1 more while hes GM. Jerry would love that kind of credit here in Dallas. You want ego, focus on Jerry. Two totally different egos there.

[Striker]

Again with this Fn ego thing. This man is in professional sports. If you DONT have one, you prob wont win. Get over it already. If he didnt have one, you'd bitch about that too. Id still say its less of an ego to stay with his plan than it is for him to go broke trying to win 1 more while hes GM. Jerry would love that kind of credit here in Dallas. You want ego, focus on Jerry. Two totally different egos there.

The ego argument is infuriating. EVERY GM has an ego. Every head coach has an ego. They stick to their plan and it either works or it doesn't.

The Patriots have been doing it BB's way and survived a 10 year SB drought. Ozzie Newsom has done pretty well with his strategy. Kevin Colbert and the Steelers. Yes, there are rough patches, but the patient strategies seem to pay off the most.

[Carolina_Packer]

The thing is I think one or two FA signings COMBINED with smart drafting could put this team over the top. I don't think they need to go nuts, but supplementing the draft with a little free agency could be a great thing. You would think if TT is the braintrust that people claim, he could easily do this. But instead it has to be his way, and his way only. Nah, no ego there.

Also, consider the possibility that some guys might come for a visit and leave saying they don't want to play for Green Bay. It's not always about what TT does or doesn't do. Not that any of us will ever know, but what if a free agent comes for a visit, TT makes a fair offer and he and his agent reject and say have a nice day? TT isn't going to make a press release to make sure that the fans know that he's at least trying to sign free agents! :-) That would be darn nice of him, now wouldn't it? How do we ever know when he misses the target, but he did everything right and the player thought too much of what he is worth in the market? And again, perish the thought, but what if a player just didn't want to play in Green Bay after visiting the team?

I doubt a marginal player would say that. I doubt many players would say that, but it at least could come into play, especially if the player/agent is being patient and trying to create leverage for the best offer.

[Rutnstrut]

All good points guys. I guess I am just nervous about the window with Rodgers. I remember the crappy QB years and it wasn't pretty.

[George Cumby]

All good points guys. I guess I am just nervous about the window with Rodgers. I remember the crappy QB years and it wasn't pretty.

Two words:

Brett Hundley

[Rutnstrut]

Two words:

Brett Hundley

He may be good, but it's doubtful that he will be Favre/Rodgers good.

[George Cumby]

He may be good, but it's doubtful that he will be Favre/Rodgers good.

Oh, I know. That would defy all odds but one can hope. ;-)

[Tony Oday]

We are still three years from getting our next QB.

[Guiness]

We are still three years from getting our next QB.

We should all hope that Hudley never becomes the Packer's starter, and instead leaves after his rookie contract because Rodgers is still playing.

[Rutnstrut]

We should all hope that Hudley never becomes the Packer's starter, and instead leaves after his rookie contract because Rodgers is still playing.

There eventually has to be an after Rodgers plan. With the draft and slow to develop plan that Teddy loves. It probably won't be Rodgers that is behind center the next time the Pack goes to a SB.

[George Cumby]

If Rodgers plays as bad as he did last year this season and the next, then the future may be closer than we think........

[Patler]

If Rodgers plays as bad as he did last year this season and the next, then the future may be closer than we think........

I brought this up in a thread last season, Hundley's contract expires one year before Rodgers, at a time when Rodgers will be 35 years old. Not all Qbs last until they are 40. Rodgers could be done when his contract is up at 36 years old. It is not inconceivable that Hundley could be the next man up at QB for Green Bay.

When you throw in the fact that AR was clearly a different QB in 2015 than he had been in prior years, the end for AR could be sooner than we would like it to be.

[George Cumby]

Yawp. Only time will tell, but the drop off was really alarming. We will see if it was Nelson's absence, the knee, his head or his GF.

[Pugger]

Also, consider the possibility that some guys might come for a visit and leave saying they don't want to play for Green Bay. It's not always about what TT does or doesn't do. Not that any of us will ever know, but what if a free agent comes for a visit, TT makes a fair offer and he and his agent reject and say have a nice day? TT isn't going to make a press release to make sure that the fans know that he's at least trying to sign free agents! :-) That would be darn nice of him, now wouldn't it? How do we ever know when he misses the target, but he did everything right and the player thought too much of what he is worth in the market? And again, perish the thought, but what if a player just didn't want to play in Green Bay after visiting the team?

I doubt a marginal player would say that. I doubt many players would say that, but it at least could come into play, especially if the player/agent is being patient and trying to create leverage for the best offer.

We have excellent facilities, history plus a winning tradition with arguably the best QB in the game. If a player and his agent turn down a fair offer I suspect that player has a unrealistically high opinion of himself. After all this time and not a lot of interest a guy like Cook must know he isn't in high demand. With him still unsigned I suspect Cook is either an egomaniac or more likely we never made him an offer.

[Tony Oday]

Holy crap you are actually complaining about his play last year?! He might not have been all world but good lord he didn't have his top two targets for most of the season and still threw 31 TDs and only had 8 ints.

[Pugger]

There eventually has to be an after Rodgers plan. With the draft and slow to develop plan that Teddy loves. It probably won't be Rodgers that is behind center the next time the Pack goes to a SB.

Boy, I sure hope you're wrong. I really hope AR wins another ring before he calls it quits.

[Tony Oday]

This year he will.

[Pugger]

Yawp. Only time will tell, but the drop off was really alarming. We will see if it was Nelson's absence, the knee, his head or his GF.

But it wasn't like he turned into Geno Smith. In the end his numbers were about average for an NFL starting QB. His bar is set so ridiculously high than anything less then otherworldly we all think he is going downhill fast. It wasn't just Jordy's absence. The O line was a mess, Lacy was fat and out of shape, Cobb was beat up and Adams played like crap. Heck, with only a slow Jones, Abby and Janis we damn near beat AZ in their place for another trip to the NFCC game.

[Pugger]

nm :oops:

[Patler]

We have excellent facilities, history plus a winning tradition with arguably the best QB in the game. If a player and his agent turn down a fair offer I suspect that player has a unrealistically high opinion of himself. After all this time and not a lot of interest a guy like Cook must know he isn't in high demand. With him still unsigned I suspect Cook is either an egomaniac or more likely we never made him an offer.

All true, but there will always be some players who do not want to live in Green Bay WI. A similar offer from another well-run team might be all they need to turn down a Packer offer. The opportunity to win a SB is there with a lot of other teams as well.

[pbmax]

We should all hope that Hudley never becomes the Packer's starter, and instead leaves after his rookie contract because Rodgers is still playing.

I personally am hoping for Rodgers-A-Palooza in 2019, when Hundley takes over and Rodgers gets traded to the Bills.

[Patler]

But it wasn't like he turned into Geno Smith. In the end his numbers were about average for an NFL starting QB. His bar is set so ridiculously high than anything less then otherworldly we all think he is going downhill fast. It wasn't just Jordy's absence. The O line was a mess, Lacy was fat and out of shape, Cobb was beat up and Adams played like crap. Heck, with only a slow Jones, Abby and Janis we damn near beat AZ in their place for another trip to the NFCC game.


I'm thinking more about the less than precise accuracy he showed even in training camp, before all the things you mentioned began. Remember that in camp he was asked, and was a bit testy about his accuracy. Maybe it was the knee, but maybe it was the start of a new phase in his career. If the latter, he will have to adjust. If he does, things will be fine. If he doesn't, well......

No athlete in his mid 30s is the same player he was 10 years earlier. If he plays as if he is, it can be problematic.

[Fritz]

I personally am hoping for Rodgers-A-Palooza in 2019, when Hundley takes over and Rodgers gets traded to the Bills.

I think Rodgers will play two more seasons for the Packers, Ted will trade Rodgers to a west coast team so he can finish his career back home and nearer Olivia Munn, Ted will sign Hundley to a longer term deal, Hundley will be great - the Favre/Rodgers heir, and someone on Packerrats will claim Ted was lucky Hundley dropped into the fifth round.

[Pugger]

I'm thinking more about the less than precise accuracy he showed even in training camp, before all the things you mentioned began. Remember that in camp he was asked, and was a bit testy about his accuracy. Maybe it was the knee, but maybe it was the start of a new phase in his career. If the latter, he will have to adjust. If he does, things will be fine. If he doesn't, well......

No athlete in his mid 30s is the same player he was 10 years earlier. If he plays as if he is, it can be problematic.

I wouldn't call 32/33 mid 30s.

[Patler]

I wouldn't call 32/33 mid 30s.

The key to my comment wasn't "mid thirties", it was that players age, and it catches up to them. There is a reason 30 is thought of as old in a lot of sports, football included. Throw in the hits Rogers has taken, knee surgery in college, several significant injuries as a pro, and I expect he is not the player he was at 26, 27, 28.

Rodgers didn't even attempt some throws he did routinely just a couple years ago. He also missed Cobb a lot more than he had in the past. Of most concern to me is that he didn't seem to "see" things that were there, when in the past he never seemed to overlook opportunities.

Lots of things were different with AR. There can be a lot of different reasons, some insignificant for 2016, some significant for 2016.

[Pugger]

The key to my comment wasn't "mid thirties", it was that players age, and it catches up to them. There is a reason 30 is thought of as old in a lot of sports, football included. Throw in the hits Rogers has taken, knee surgery in college, several significant injuries as a pro, and I expect he is not the player he was at 26, 27, 28.

Rodgers didn't even attempt some throws he did routinely just a couple years ago. He also missed Cobb a lot more than he had in the past. Of most concern to me is that he didn't seem to "see" things that were there, when in the past he never seemed to overlook opportunities.

Lots of things were different with AR. There can be a lot of different reasons, some insignificant for 2016, some significant for 2016.

Was the reason he didn't attempt some throws he routinely did before because of a lack of trust in his WRs? We'll soon find out. Aaron didn't start right away as a rookie and has only been our starter for 8 years so I am figuring he doesn't have as much wear and tear as other 33 year old QBs.

[woodbuck27]

I personally am hoping for Rodgers-A-Palooza in 2019, when Hundley takes over and Rodgers gets traded to the Bills.

Then MY Jets might be looking for another Packer castoff at QB.

[gbgary]

In the last three years they have gotten better at RB, center, DB, backup QB, probably DL, too. Last year before tc I would have said WR, too, but that is now in question. Other areas may have regressed, but that is the way it always goes.

got better in those areas through the draft. could've got even better had he used some of that unused cap in FA.

[Patler]

got better in those areas through the draft. could've got even better had he used some of that unused cap in FA.

What unused cap? Some of you write as if there have been 10's of millions of cap space that TT hasn't used. This year they rolled over less than $7 million. That is the combined total of all of their unused cap space since the 2011 season. Going into 2016, in the past five season they have spent every penny of their salary caps except for $6.9 million.

Sure, that was enough to have done something, but anything real significant would have altered what they have done, which, of course, has been mostly extending their own. It is also important to retain a cushion, to do what you have to during the season. Rolling over $5-7 million isn't much.

[Patler]

Was the reason he didn't attempt some throws he routinely did before because of a lack of trust in his WRs? We'll soon find out.

That shouldn't be the reason because the guy he didn't trust, apparently, was Janis, and he barely saw the field. Mostly he was throwing to Jones, Cobb and Adams. Why should he have lacked trust in them?

Personally, I think he started second guessing his own ability to make those throws. He hesitated, then the opportunity was gone.

[Upnorth]

That shouldn't be the reason because the guy he didn't trust, apparently, was Janis, and he barely saw the field. Mostly he was throwing to Jones, Cobb and Adams. Why should he have lacked trust in them?

Personally, I think he started second guessing his own ability to make those throws. He hesitated, then the opportunity was gone.

I think that when people who are usually not wrong, make a wrong prediction it is majorly wrong. Here’s hoping this is one of those times.

[yetisnowman]

Holy crap you are actually complaining about his play last year?! He might not have been all world but good lord he didn't have his top two targets for most of the season and still threw 31 TDs and only had 8 ints.

Cobb played in 16 games, so I'm not sure what you mean by top 2 targets. Look beyond the td/int numbers. Career lows in yds, yds/attempt, comp %. His accuracy, mechanics, and decision making were bad.(of course by his standards) If his play didn't concern you last year I am not sure we watched the same team. I hope it's related to injuries, but it's completely fair to wonder if his play will deteriorate sooner than we had hoped a year or two ago.

[Patler]

I think that when people who are usually not wrong, make a wrong prediction it is majorly wrong. Here’s hoping this is one of those times.

I haven't predicted anything, because I don't know what to make of his play on 2015. I have said all along that I am anxiously for next season to see if 2015 was an aberration, or the start of a new phase in AR's career.

I just think we shouldn't sit here and blindly believe AR will be the same as a few years ago. Maybe he will for a couple more years, and maybe not. We can make a lot of excuses for 2015, but maybe he just had an off year too, and he will play until he is 45.

Another thing to hope for is that, sine AR is a very cerebral player, even if he isn't the same, he will be smart enough to use what he has.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Cobb played in 16 games, so I'm not sure what you mean by top 2 targets.

Three of his top four anyways (Adams was never right, even when he played) and his starting TE. Add a fat Lacy, a fumbling Starks, and an injury riddled OL.

[Patler]

Cobb played in 16 games, so I'm not sure what you mean by top 2 targets. Look beyond the td/int numbers. Career lows in yds, yds/attempt, comp %. His a
ccuracy, mechanics, and decision making were bad.(of course by his standards) If his play didn't concern you last year I am not sure we watched the same team. I hope it's related to injuries, but it's completely fair to wonder if his play will deteriorate sooner than we had hoped a year or two ago.

Exactly.

[mraynrand]

. Mostly he was throwing to Jones, Cobb and Adams. Why should he have lacked trust in them?

Because they couldn't get open and dropped passes?

[denverYooper]

AR will be fine. With a fresh knee and some healthy WR, he'll look a lot better.

[Joemailman]

AR will be fine. With a fresh knee and some healthy WR, he'll look a lot better.

MM running the offense again won't hurt either. Delegating more responsibilities to his offensive assistants didn't work.

[Patler]

Because they couldn't get open and dropped passes?

But he had history with them.

This argument about not trusting his WR is really no excuse. He has to play with the guys on the field, like it or not.

[mraynrand]

But he had history with them.

This argument about not trusting his WR is really no excuse. He has to play with the guys on the field, like it or not.

Ya, I think it's pretty thin gruel - but you asked the question. Rodgers was not sharp last year, but there were mitigating factors.

[3irty1]

I don't think Rodgers's issues were injury related.

You saw the same kind of yips, indecision, and extreme risk aversion in 2014 against the good defenses we played: Seattle, NY Jets, Detroit, and Buffalo. In all cases the same patterns of the same dysfunction was there, it was just overshadowed by overall statistical success and some signature wins against Miami and New England.

Last year we played a lot of good defenses, and overall it seemed defense was ahead of offense as a league-wide trend relative to other seasons. Obviously the injuries we suffered to key guys, and Lacy's regression didn't help but Rodgers has some shit to figure out. I think he will though. You don't get to his level without being able to deconstruct and reconstruct your game.

[Tony Oday]

Cobb had a banged up shoulder all year.

[Fritz]

I keep coming back to three issues: Rodgers missing throws to wide open receivers, Rodgers not seeing guys who were open, and Rodgers refusing to throw into tight quarters like he used to.

[pbmax]

But he had history with them.

This argument about not trusting his WR is really no excuse. He has to play with the guys on the field, like it or not.

You have to state the whole critique. No trust to get open. He had no problem trusting Jones for 6 weeks, then Defenses put the clamps on him and he disappeared. Same with Cobb now that he had a #1 CB on him. The offense had clearly changed with no Nelson.

Nelson was the biggest Packer receiver, drew the best coverage and tilted the field toward his side. He competed for balls as well as any Rodgers era receiver and could be trusted along to sideline to make spectacular plays. When he went away, all of that attention shifted to other, less gifted receivers.

I also think there was a scheme component missing (Adams never filled his role) and I don't believe the no huddle helped.

Rodgers did make this worse after Week 6, helped right along by shoddy protection that, as he has done before, he made worse. There is a chance that Rodgers will struggle in the future without top line targets, but given his history with young Cobb, Jones and Nelson, I still think it was the available targets. In retrospect, feeding Jones that much early probably hurt the team later in the year.

I do think its obvious now that Cobb cannot be a number 1 receiver even though his contract is close to that category. He is a great complement in the slot. But paying top dollar for that position probably was not the best use of dollars given that the position has crashed in contract numbers. Given the WR corp, the Packers needed him more than most, so its understandable even in retrospect.

And while you can use the boxscore to tell you Cobb was available for 16 weeks, after he mangled his shoulder, it took him 4 games to get squared away. That he kept playing was probably a sign of how desperate they were.

My hope is that Supercoach Gentry solves the depth problem cause by Adams and Janis not being ready.

[pbmax]

I keep coming back to three issues: Rodgers missing throws to wide open receivers, Rodgers not seeing guys who were open, and Rodgers refusing to throw into tight quarters like he used to.

His accuracy is a fair critique, he looked like a different player, but I think a lot of that was uncertainty and timing miscues.

If you remember when Rodgers and Starks used to try to complete a screen pass, I think it was similar. How it looked like each thought the other had the wrong playcall.

[Fritz]

That's another thing that hasn't been discussed much: the book on Starks for the first two or three years in GB was that he couldn't catch shit with a basket. He supposedly had bad hands. Now he's the golden boy coming out of the backfield. This must be a case of a guy who turned a weakness into a strength.

I am hoping for not only better throws from Rodgers, I am hoping also for less eye-rolling and fewer gestures to the sky as if Rodgers is somebody's Jewish father-in-law ("So this you call a wide receiver?").

[pbmax]

^ I think Lacy is more natural, but Starks and Rodgers have gone from tire fire to adequate, which is remarkable.

[3irty1]

Wasn't Starks advertised as a RB who could run routes like a WR coming out of college? I was always waiting for that player to show up.

Rodgers in general has been inexplicably awful at routine dump off passes in the flat. Hits everybody in the feet which leads to a lost step by RBs at best and stupid looking incompletions at worst.

[Patler]

Wasn't Starks advertised as a RB who could run routes like a WR coming out of college? I was always waiting for that player to show up.


Yup, he was. I, too, expected Starks to be productive in the passing game. He had a lot of receptions in college, 126 in just 36 games. He was supposed to have good hands, too.

Somehow, it just took him a while to get untracked as a pro.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Yup, he was. I, too, expected Starks to be productive in the passing game. He had a lot of receptions in college, 126 in just 36 games. He was supposed to have good hands, too.

Somehow, it just took him a while to get untracked as a pro.Part of this IMO is due to strategery. We used to run a lot of screens. Now we don't so much. Plus, it seems we rarely if ever have RB's running routes out of the backfield except maybe when Cobb's back there. Maybe it's personnel or the need for an extra pass blocker. IMO it's a neglected weapon we need, especially on 3rd downs and in the Red Zone.

[pbmax]

Wasn't Starks advertised as a RB who could run routes like a WR coming out of college? I was always waiting for that player to show up.

Rodgers in general has been inexplicably awful at routine dump off passes in the flat. Hits everybody in the feet which leads to a lost step by RBs at best and stupid looking incompletions at worst.

He is terrible at those short throws behind the LOS. You can even see it in some of the WR screens.

[SMBASS]

Rodgers has always looked like he has a case of, "Steve Sax syndrome" when making those short, dump off throws. I really don't get how a guy can thread a rocket ball into an almost non-existent window between two defenders 20-30 yards downfield but can't make a nice leading five yard pass over the shoulder of a guy that isn't even being covered by a defender.

[3irty1]

Rodgers has always looked like he has a case of, "Steve Sax syndrome" when making those short, dump off throws. I really don't get how a guy can thread a rocket ball into an almost non-existent window between two defenders 20-30 yards downfield but can't make a nice leading five yard pass over the shoulder of a guy that isn't even being covered by a defender.

Steve Blass you mean

[SMBASS]

Steve Blass you mean

No 3irty1...there's something called the, "Steve Sax Syndrome" because he had a case of the yips where he couldn't even throw the ball from 2nd to 1st base for awhile. Sax had 30 errors in 1983 but he eventually got past his, "problem". Chuck Knoblauch also developed a bad case of the yips trying to throw from 2nd to 1st. Blass for some unknown reason just completely lost his ability to pitch in the course of about 1 year...similar to Rick Ankiel. Mickey Sasser also develop an incredible case of the yips where he couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher anymore.

[3irty1]

No 3irty1...there's something called the, "Steve Sax Syndrome" because he had a case of the yips where he couldn't even throw the ball from 2nd to 1st base for awhile. Sax had 30 errors in 1983 but he eventually got past his, "problem". Chuck Knoblauch also developed a bad case of the yips trying to throw from 2nd to 1st. Blass for some unknown reason just completely lost his ability to pitch in the course of about 1 year...similar to Rick Ankiel. Mickey Sasser also develop an incredible case of the yips where he couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher anymore.

Oh thank you. I'd never heard of "Steve Sax Syndrome" although I remember doing a presentation on Steve Blass disease in grade school. Must not have been too thorough!

[SMBASS]

Oh thank you. I'd never heard of "Steve Sax Syndrome" although I remember doing a presentation on Steve Blass disease in grade school. Must not have been too thorough!

Actually you were spot on with, "Steve Blass Disease". I've read where major leaguers call it that whenever a player inexplicably just completely loses his ability to play seemingly overnight. I think they use that term for whenever it happens to a player regardless of his position. "Steve Sax Syndrome" is used whenever a player develops a case of the yips and can't make routine throws any longer for whatever reason. There was a great quote, (I'm paraphrasing) attributed to Pedro Guerrero when he was moved from the outfield to 3rd base where he said his first thought while playing the infield was, "I hope they don't hit it to me!" and his second thought was, "I hope they don't hit it to Sax!" Lol!

[Fritz]

I am old enough to remember Steve Sax and his troubles. It was actually kind of sad.

The Tigers had a reliever back in the late 80's or 90's, Kevin Saucier, who had one incredible flamethrowing season as their closer - or "fireman" as we used to say back in the day. He lost it overnight - could not, could not, could not find the plate. I think he hit a guy and somehow it freaked him out.

But I remember when Bob Gibson would hit a guy, he'd get a boner. Ugly, ugly thing.

[pbmax]

For pitchers, its Steve Blass. See also, Rick Ankiel.

In the field, it can also be called a Chuck Knoblach condition.

[hoosier]

Derrick Turnbow is the Steve Blass of recent Brewer history.

[Upnorth]

http://m.jsonline.com/sports/packers/wide-receivers-could-help-packers-tight-end-problem-b99693146z1-373251561.html

Tie into last pages discussion.

[Rutnstrut]

http://m.jsonline.com/sports/packers/wide-receivers-could-help-packers-tight-end-problem-b99693146z1-373251561.html

Tie into last pages discussion.

If you believe what they are saying there, than not bringing Jones back makes even less sense than I originally thought it did. He's just as coachable as Adams or Cobb, and he fights for the ball more than those two combined. He can be the "not TE" redzone threat, because no one is threatened by Dickrod.

[mraynrand]

Jeebus Krist, the NYGiants kept the skinny punk over Jones last year. Packers only picked him up because he knew the system and they were up shit creek.

[esoxx]

I doubt Jones makes an opening day roster this season.

[Pugger]

Rodgers has always looked like he has a case of, "Steve Sax syndrome" when making those short, dump off throws. I really don't get how a guy can thread a rocket ball into an almost non-existent window between two defenders 20-30 yards downfield but can't make a nice leading five yard pass over the shoulder of a guy that isn't even being covered by a defender.

Perhaps it is because these short passes are "easy" and he isn't concentrating on his mechanics while throwing so the ball ends up at the WR's ankles?

I've been thinking about the QB/WR coaching situation we had last year and everyone seems to agree not having a full time WR coach hurt that unit. But I'm beginning to suspect not having a full time QB coach didn't do Rodgers any favors either. Even tho AR is the best in the business( IMO) he, like every player, needs coaching. Last year Van Pelt was stretched to the limit and both units suffered because of it and this is a big reason why our offense sucked last year. Lacy being fat and out of shape didn't help either.

[Rutnstrut]

Jeebus Krist, the NYGiants kept the skinny punk over Jones last year. Packers only picked him up because he knew the system and they were up shit creek.

Yet he saved the Packers ass last season. Without him there would have been no 6-0 start, and no playoffs. You all think each player needs to be a superstar. What they need is a bunch of solid, play hard contributors. Not more flash in the pan Adams types. The same on defense, I would take 11 players with the work ethic of an AJ Hawk any day over Peppers or Clay.

[yetisnowman]

Yet he saved the Packers ass last season. Without him there would have been no 6-0 start, and no playoffs. You all think each player needs to be a superstar. What they need is a bunch of solid, play hard contributors. Not more flash in the pan Adams types. The same on defense, I would take 11 players with the work ethic of an AJ Hawk any day over Peppers or Clay.

It's amazing to me that so many fans are eager to move on from JJ. Especially considering how inconsistent and injury plagued our wr corps have proven to be.

[mraynrand]

Yet he saved the Packers ass last season. Without him there would have been no 6-0 start, and no playoffs. You all think each player needs to be a superstar. What they need is a bunch of solid, play hard contributors. Not more flash in the pan Adams types. The same on defense, I would take 11 players with the work ethic of an AJ Hawk any day over Peppers or Clay.

The bolded is just a straw man argument. Adams was never a flash in the pan. The hope was that he could be your solid contributor, but the injury cost him. At home, against Detroit though, he was exactly what you said, a play-hard solid contributor. Once Monty got hurt and defenses learned they could press, it was all over. Jones was a nice emergency addition at the bottom of a depleted roster, nothing more.

[yetisnowman]

The bolded is just a straw man argument. Adams was never a flash in the pan. The hope was that he could be your solid contributor, but the injury cost him. At home, against Detroit though, he was exactly what you said, a play-hard solid contributor. Once Monty got hurt and defenses learned they could press, it was all over. Jones was a nice emergency addition at the bottom of a depleted roster, nothing more.

Regardless of injuries, having the most receiving yards and Tds on an NFL team is nothing to scoff at. Jones was out most reliable player on offense last year, including AR. Seems a cheap reliable option, especially since you know injuries will occur, is a good thing.

[deake]

On the other hand, if we didn't sign Jones the young players would have had a chance to play and just maybe would have been the spark we needed in our offense.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I think Jones bought Janis and Abby time to get up to speed (and healthy). I think if they were thrown into the fire too soon, it would have been bad for their development.

[run pMc]

Regardless of injuries, having the most receiving yards and Tds on an NFL team is nothing to scoff at. Jones was out most reliable player on offense last year, including AR. Seems a cheap reliable option, especially since you know injuries will occur, is a good thing.

I agree with this. HOWEVER, I think that when compared to the WR's on the roster, Jones is old, slow and has no upside. If by some strange quirk they have another rash of WR injuries that decimates their depth, they'll have his number on speeddial. I'd expect last season to be a lesson for all the WR's, and McCarthy. They have a WR coach now, plus Abby, Adams, Ty and Janis *should* all be better with the experience.

Having better TE's would help too.

[mraynrand]

Regardless of injuries, having the most receiving yards and Tds on an NFL team is nothing to scoff at. Jones was out most reliable player on offense last year, including AR. Seems a cheap reliable option, especially since you know injuries will occur, is a good thing.

I think this just helps illustrate how bad the offense was. 23rd in yards IIRC. Hugh Walter McElroy was the best purser on the Titanic.

[pbmax]

It's amazing to me that so many fans are eager to move on from JJ. Especially considering how inconsistent and injury plagued our wr corps have proven to be.

One year constitutes injury plagued for all time?

[pbmax]

Just like someone on a basketball team is going to get enough shots to score twenty a game regardless of how good the team is, Jones was the guy who got enough targets to lead the team. That doesn't make him good, that just made him the best option at the time. He was the best of a putrid offense.

On a team with a healthy Nelson and Cobb he is at best a #3 and you do yourself a disservice by not playing Adams, Abby and Janis more.

If he is on your team next year and playing, its a sign of the offensive apocalypse. Not a sign of smart roster management.

[Iron Mike]

Linebacker Karlos Dansby, whom the Browns released Wednesday,*would like to join*the Cardinals, Bengals or Packers, writes Mary Kay Cabot of Cleveland.com. “Yeah, I think the Bengals are licking their chops right now,” he said. “I hope they are. We’ll see what it is.” Notably, Dansby started his career in Arizona as a second-round pick in 2004 and piled up 25.5 sacks before leaving after the 2009 season.*



So thats TWO inside linebackers who say they want to play for GB, the other being Trevathan. Maybe Ted will pick up the phone.

Prescient: http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?24350-Karlos-Dansby&highlight=

[Patler]

Jones was what he has always been, a reliable guy who knows the offense, makes contested catches and plays through injuries. Nothing has changed for him. He doesn't fit well in the Packers roster as we think it will be, with two experienced guys in Nelson and Cobb, and four hopefully upcoming youngsters in Adams, Montgomery, Abrederis and Janis. Keeping Jones would require releasing one or two of those 6, and there really is no good reason to do that. Keeping all six is a bit of a stretch as it is, because 5 WRs is a more common roster makeup.

There are probably a few teams that have no WR depth and could use a guy like Jones, but GB isn't one of them right now.

[mraynrand]

There are probably a few teams that have no WR depth and could use a guy like Jones, but GB isn't one of them right now.

Hello Cleveland!

[Joemailman]

Hello Cleveland!

So said RGIII. http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000647310/article/robert-griffin-iii-signs-with-cleveland-browns

[woodbuck27]

Jones was what he has always been, a reliable guy who knows the offense, makes contested catches and plays through injuries. Nothing has changed for him. He doesn't fit well in the Packers roster as we think it will be, with two experienced guys in Nelson and Cobb, and four hopefully upcoming youngsters in Adams, Montgomery, Abrederis and Janis. Keeping Jones would require releasing one or two of those 6, and there really is no good reason to do that. Keeping all six is a bit of a stretch as it is, because 5 WRs is a more common roster makeup.

There are probably a few teams that have no WR depth and could use a guy like Jones, but GB isn't one of them right now.

Good analysis Patler.

This move by the Packers all the same has to be tough on WR James Jones as he had a career high 880 yards receiving last season.

On a side note:

MM commented that he believes that RB Eddie Lacy will report this season for work outs in fine shape. MM also commented on WR Jordy Nelson saying that he's making good progress in his rehabilitation program.

I believe I was reading here that a member thought that RB James Starks had 7 fumbles. He had 5 fumbles. The Packers are returning him as a FA and doubling his 2015 salary. It should also be noted that RB Eddie Lacy will become a FA in 2017.

[Rutnstrut]

Just like someone on a basketball team is going to get enough shots to score twenty a game regardless of how good the team is, Jones was the guy who got enough targets to lead the team. That doesn't make him good, that just made him the best option at the time. He was the best of a putrid offense.

On a team with a healthy Nelson and Cobb he is at best a #3 and you do yourself a disservice by not playing Adams, Abby and Janis more.

If he is on your team next year and playing, its a sign of the offensive apocalypse. Not a sign of smart roster management.

That doesn't really add up. if it did Adams would have had a slew of catches and TD's last season as they threw to him a shitload and he dropped it a shitload. IMO Jones is one of those guys you keep around and tell the guys like Adams. Practice like him, play through injury like him, just do like he does...

[pbmax]

That doesn't really add up. if it did Adams would have had a slew of catches and TD's last season as they threw to him a shitload and he dropped it a shitload. IMO Jones is one of those guys you keep around and tell the guys like Adams. Practice like him, play through injury like him, just do like he does...

Adams is not the same player as Jones. They don't ask him to run the same routes and he was not on the same page as his QB. He was not as effective. Jones was effective enough to turn in a season similar to his past (minus deep balls).

Jones was the best option last year, but that does not make him a good option going forward.

But Jones is all downside, Adams still has an upside.

[Patler]

I agree with Rutnstrut to the extent that Jones would be a good guy to have around for the young'ns to learn from. But, at this point in Jones' career he can't take the roster spot of a young player with a lot of potential, and the Packers have four young wide receivers who have a lot of potential. More than likely, not all of them will pan out, but they need one or two of them to become reliable receivers, and they can't be sure yet which one(s) that will be. They need to keep them all and give them as many opportunities as they can in 2016. There just isn't a roster spot for Jones at this time.

[Carolina_Packer]

I agree with Rutnstrut to the extent that Jones would be a good guy to have around for the young'ns to learn from. But, at this point in Jones' career he can't take the roster spot of a young player with a lot of potential, and the Packers have four young wide receivers who have a lot of potential. More than likely, not all of them will pan out, but they need one or two of them to become reliable receivers, and they can't be sure yet which one(s) that will be. They need to keep them all and give them as many opportunities as they can in 2016. There just isn't a roster spot for Jones at this time.

Older receivers who don't play special teams have to be a WR1, WR2 or WR3 to remain a viable option for the team. Any other receiver who makes the roster will likely be younger and player special teams. That's generally how it works with draft and develop teams.

[mraynrand]

I agree with Rutnstrut to the extent that Jones would be a good guy to have around for the young'ns to learn from. But, at this point in Jones' career he can't take the roster spot of a young player with a lot of potential, and the Packers have four young wide receivers who have a lot of potential. More than likely, not all of them will pan out, but they need one or two of them to become reliable receivers, and they can't be sure yet which one(s) that will be. They need to keep them all and give them as many opportunities as they can in 2016. There just isn't a roster spot for Jones at this time.

Let me just put it this way: I hope the Packers have no need of Jones this year.

[gbgary]

If you believe what they are saying there, than not bringing Jones back makes even less sense than I originally thought it did. He's just as coachable as Adams or Cobb, and he fights for the ball more than those two combined. He can be the "not TE" redzone threat, because no one is threatened by Dickrod.

the "not tight-end." i like it. sign him up. yup...he's one guy that actually fights for the ball and has great hands when facing the qb. this O needs all the help it can get.

[3irty1]

I don't think we need Jones in the red zone, although I do agree if the whole game was played in the redzone he'd be a welcome addition.

Cobb doesn't fight for the ball like Jones but he has proven to be excellent at finding green grass and open passing lanes in the red zone. In the compressed field of the red zone his greatest weakness, long speed, is completely mitigated. He's our best player here.

Same goes for Dickrod. The redzone is one of the only two situations where I consider him above average (the other being zbs blocking downfield). His slowness doesn't hamper him in the redzone and he's done well in competing for the contested ball.

[KYPack]

Regardless of injuries, having the most receiving yards and Tds on an NFL team is nothing to scoff at. Jones was out most reliable player on offense last year, including AR. Seems a cheap reliable option, especially since you know injuries will occur, is a good thing.

The most reliable player on offense including AR?

Are you out of your wits?

Jones was a key and fortunate acquisition, but he wasn't the most reliable receiver we had, let alone the most reliable player.

Cobb had 29 more receptions, DickRod had 8 TD's tying Jones. Jones had 50 catches, but was targeted 99 times. He'll have to battle his ass off to get a roster spot, let alone be labeled the team stud on O.

SMbass, good baseball oriented post. I've always been intrigued by players that "lose it".

[Patler]

"Targets" don't mean a lot to me, because if things are the same as they have been, there must be a target on every pass attempt. So every time AR threw a ball away out of bounds or out of the endzone, someone received a "target". Last year, that was quite often. The guy who gets the "target" is always going to be a guy who works the sideline or the back of the endzone. Often last year that was Jones. A couple of those a game add up quickly.

How many times did Jones not come up with truly catchable balls? Not very often compared to Adams, or even Cobb. How often did Jones allow a defender to get position and knock a ball away, not often compared to Adams, or even Cobb.

[woodbuck27]

Just like someone on a basketball team is going to get enough shots to score twenty a game regardless of how good the team is, Jones was the guy who got enough targets to lead the team. That doesn't make him good, that just made him the best option at the time. He was the best of a putrid offense.

On a team with a healthy Nelson and Cobb he is at best a #3 and you do yourself a disservice by not playing Adams, Abby and Janis more.

If he is on your team next year and playing, its a sign of the offensive apocalypse. Not a sign of smart roster management.

I agree with you pbmax.

[woodbuck27]

Adams is not the same player as Jones. They don't ask him to run the same routes and he was not on the same page as his QB. He was not as effective. Jones was effective enough to turn in a season similar to his past (minus deep balls).

Jones was the best option last year, but that does not make him a good option going forward.

But Jones is all downside, Adams still has an upside.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/4242/james-jones

There's proof in the pudding. James Jones is still a FA.

[Pugger]

Let me just put it this way: I hope the Packers have no need of Jones this year.

this

[yetisnowman]

The most reliable player on offense including AR?

Are you out of your wits?

Jones was a key and fortunate acquisition, but he wasn't the most reliable receiver we had, let alone the most reliable player.

Cobb had 29 more receptions, DickRod had 8 TD's tying Jones. Jones had 50 catches, but was targeted 99 times. He'll have to battle his ass off to get a roster spot, let alone be labeled the team stud on O.

SMbass, good baseball oriented post. I've always been intrigued by players that "lose it".

I stand by my statement. Most reliable. You knew what to expect from him....his attributes, his limitations. He never got great seperation, but he could at least make contested catches. And he made more big plays than our other wideouts, look at his yards per catch. And yes A-rod was completely unreliable last year. Particularly the second half of the season.

[pbmax]

I stand by my statement. Most reliable. You knew what to expect from him....his attributes, his limitations. He never got great seperation, but he could at least make contested catches. And he made more big plays than our other wideouts, look at his yards per catch. And yes A-rod was completely unreliable last year. Particularly the second half of the season.

And after his hamstring injury? Does that fit under the definition of reliable?

[mraynrand]

I stand by my statement. Most reliable. You knew what to expect from him....his attributes, his limitations. He never got great seperation, but he could at least make contested catches. And he made more big plays than our other wideouts, look at his yards per catch. And yes A-rod was completely unreliable last year. Particularly the second half of the season.

You make some good points, a little over sold though. The bolded kinda made me chuckle.

[yetisnowman]

Sorry I made a spelling booboo. I guess we view the term reliable differently. Aaron was physically and emotionally erratic last year. That was my point.

[mraynrand]

Sorry I made a spelling booboo. I guess we view the term reliable differently. Aaron was physically and emotionally erratic last year. That was my point.

didn't care about the spelling. Just thinking of Jones covered like a blanket. I thought Rodgers threw to him because he trusted him over other guys who were blanketed as well.

I did notice that Rodgers got more erratic in games where he was sacked and pressured more and more and guys didn't get open. Probably there is some connection there.

At this point, I am officially tired of talking about Rodgers underperforming last year. It's time to start focusing on talking about him underperforming this year.

[Patler]

At this point, I am officially tired of talking about Rodgers underperforming last year. It's time to start focusing on talking about him underperforming this year.

I agree, he hasn't done squat this year.

[Fritz]

Maybe he's underperforming because Olivia Munn thinks he's underperforming.

[3irty1]

The way I remember it most of Jones's early success was on jump balls thrown on free plays. That says more about Rodgers than it does about Jones IMO. Free plays require no trust because there is no risk. Same with the trends of comebacks in the second half of games last year... Once you have nothing to lose there is no benefit to the ultra risk averse mode Rodgers would enter. Jones is the cure to nothing.

[pbmax]

The way I remember it most of Jones's early success was on jump balls thrown on free plays. That says more about Rodgers than it does about Jones IMO. Free plays require no trust because there is no risk. Same with the trends of comebacks in the second half of games last year... Once you have nothing to lose there is no benefit to the ultra risk averse mode Rodgers would enter. Jones is the cure to nothing.

And back shoulder. But after you creep up to blanket him to stop that, and he doesn't have the speed to make you pay, it gets easier. Especially after his hammy got hurt.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000648646/article/bengals-to-sign-veteran-linebacker-karlos-dansby

Bengals to sign veteran linebacker Karlos Dansby

By Marc Sessler ... Around the NFL Writer

Published: March 29, 2016 at 11:08 a.m. Updated: March 29, 2016 at 01:09 p.m.

" Released by the Browns earlier this month, the 34-year-old veteran told Cleveland.com's Mary Kay Cabot: "I'm sure the Bengals are licking their chops right now."

He wasn't wrong."

[Carolina_Packer]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000648646/article/bengals-to-sign-veteran-linebacker-karlos-dansby

Bengals to sign veteran linebacker Karlos Dansby

By Marc Sessler ... Around the NFL Writer

Published: March 29, 2016 at 11:08 a.m. Updated: March 29, 2016 at 01:09 p.m.

" Released by the Browns earlier this month, the 34-year-old veteran told Cleveland.com's Mary Kay Cabot: "I'm sure the Bengals are licking their chops right now."

He wasn't wrong."

And there it is! I didn't expect TT to sign him anyway.

[run pMc]

Didn't they sign AJ Hawk last year?

[woodbuck27]

A Bargain player each NFL Team should pick up from FA:

A decent idea gone for now.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2628224-one-bargain-player-each-team-should-target-in-late-nfl-free-agency/page/24