Another possible reason for Arod's struggles this year

[Upnorth]

http://espn.go.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/28929/packers-qb-aaron-rodgers-is-a-ufo-believer

Off season doldrums...

[Smidgeon]

Not really. That occurred before he was drafted...

[woodbuck27]

I believe a lot of Aaron Rodgers struggles had to do with the confidence he didn't have in his avaiklable targets, This affected his mechanics often when he tried a short passes that wasn't the option he preferred. He has to adapt to the situation at hand and learn to take confidence in whatever the present situation offers.

Somehow he needs to learn to go with the flow. It appears to me too often that he chooses to sulk and if so he needs to adjust.

I do believe we'll see the Aaron Rodgers we need to see with his legit NO. 1 WR back in Jordy Nelson but all the same ARod needs to adapt to certain adversity as that occurs.

[Pugger]

I also suspect some of Aaron's struggles were due to having his position coach in charge of the WRs too. Having Van Pelt coach both WRs and QBs contributed to both units having down seasons.

[Tony Oday]

I think it had to do with a patchwork line and hurt WR.

[mraynrand]

I believe in UFOs too. There are all kinds of unidentified flying objects. Aliens from other words? Probably not.

http://img.bleacherreport.net/img/article/media_slots/photos/002/080/916/bf1067fac50090d8fa0dfc5b1caefc0e_crop_north.jpg?w= 759&h=506&q=75

[gbgary]

I think it had to do with a patchwork line and hurt WR.

injuries, underachievement, and lack of nfl-level talent.

[Patler]

It's time to quit making excuses for AR. He is supposed to be one of the best players in the league. A player who should make others better, not a player who loses his accuracy and decision making ability because his OL and WRs have some injuries. He should get the most out of other players. I don't think we can say he got the most out of his WRs last year, not with all of the overlooked opportunities and missed throws there were.

AR had a down year. Now we need to see if it was the new normal for him, or a one year aberration.

[mraynrand]

I don't like making excuses for anyone. But I like trying to explain their results. Anyone QB would have looked awful behind the line the Packers put out there against AZ in the regular season. That's just reality. It's also reality that the WRs corps was pretty substandard. And so was Rodgers.

[pbmax]

Patler it would really change my mostly imaginary opinion of you if you were the kind of coach who, whenever a player tried to explain what went wrong, started to scream about no excuses. :lol:

Things I blame Rodgers for:
1. Making things worse in the pocket due to weak protection
2. Ultra short throwing accuracy
3. Lack of development of Janis (it is unclear how much of this is JJ and how much is coach/QB or position coach). Could also be normal 3-year development cycle for a small school WR.
4. Deep touch disappearing


Things I blame McCarthy for:
1. No huddle limiting ability to shake someone open
2. No dedicated WR coach
3. Flat refusal at times to help Tackles in pass pro
4. No design for Janis to help. We understand its important to have a development process that is judged by benchmarks, but when everyone is hurt, the freak needs to be unleashed. If the People's Champion refuses to learn later because he is part folk hero, then let him go. Its possible he had no route he could run other than a 9. If you could survive letting Favre go, you can survive the Janis-Apocalypse.
5. Remember the offense that worked with Rodgers limited in mobility and the no huddle struggling two years ago? Called the pistol? Should have been used more. But forget the specifics. At one time M3 said its not about routes, its about winning the route. News to Mike: they were NOT winning routes. So you needed to help more and earlier. He did this some, but not enough and not as soon as he should have.

Things I blame fate/Ted for:
1. Injuries to WR (Nelson, Cobb[twice], Adams, Monty, Abby and Jones[don't forget his hammy injury])
2. TE position
3. Short one functional tackle all year.
4. You know those inexplicable throws from Rodgers, that made you think that Fox has shifted your affiliate to the Texans game? I don't think Rodgers forgot how to be accurate, I think the offense was struggling so mightily to get a WR open that at times, no one knew where window and route were supposed to be.

Things I blame Burger King for:
1. Eddie Lacy's gut

[George Cumby]

The great ones elevate those around them. I don't know if Rodgers did that this year.

Criticizing your young guys pubically is a poor substitute for leadership.

His leadership is a question mark for me.

Color me skeptical right now.

[Pugger]

If you only read this thread and never looked at his raw numbers from last year you would come away thinking he was terrible. You guys talk like he was Jimmy Clausen for crying out loud. He was average but because he's been so otherworldly since 2009 his average numbers this past season look like crap. I fully expect him to bounce back and have a nice season in 2016.

[Bretsky]

I think what contributed most was having a lack of speed in Plodgers at TE and also needing to rely on the Fresno Fraud and once again having no WR theat at the RB position.

Upgrade those spots and we'll be just fine

[Bretsky]

speaking of leadership, I've listed to the Packer best guys compare and contrast Rodgers with the evil Brett Favre.

One thing they often note is how Favr'es guys would run through a brick wall for him; they don't see what with AROD. Wonder if there is any point validity there in terms of leadership

[pbmax]

Pretty sure Kuhn, Jordy and James would go through a wall for Rodgers. Jennings and Driver obviously had split loyalties to some degree. To make matters worse for them, their roles were changing.

Jennings probably come around since his career years are with Rodgers, but he got injured and had a disappointing year in his contract drive.

[pbmax]

I think what contributed most was having a lack of speed in Plodgers at TE and also needing to rely on the Fresno Fraud and once again having no WR theat at the RB position.

Upgrade those spots and we'll be just fine

Can't be TE if 2013 and 2014 are any judge.

[run pMc]

Criticizing your young guys pubically is a poor substitute for leadership.
awkward typo. LOL

Assuming it's a typo, I agree that he shouldn't be piling on the young guys.
Injuries to OL and WR, bad route running, lack of trust with young guys, no speed/YAC at TE...it seemed for a while like the best passing play was the screen to Starks.
Lack of a WR coach didn't help.

I also wonder if it was a case of Rodgers trying something different out with his footwork or mechanics in an effort to be even better, only it didn't work. You hear about players doing this sometimes: trying something new they experimented with over the offseason. Maybe this time it backfired. I expect when training camp rolls around there will be all kinds of hopeful stories about bouncing back, etc. I think Rodgers accuracy was off even in preseason, and I hope that gets fixed. When he's on target, it's a beautiful thing to behold.

[George Cumby]

I sincerely hope you are right, Pugs.

[George Cumby]

awkward typo. LOL

Assuming it's a typo.

I had complete faith that one of you would catch the malapropism. ; )

[Patler]

If you only read this thread and never looked at his raw numbers from last year you would come away thinking he was terrible. You guys talk like he was Jimmy Clausen for crying out loud. He was average but because he's been so otherworldly since 2009 his average numbers this past season look like crap. I fully expect him to bounce back and have a nice season in 2016.

To really evaluate AR's season, I think you do have to look beyond the numbers. The numbers do not show the opportunities AR either didn't see or ignored, and there were quite a few other than the infamous tablet toss play. The numbers do not properly evaluate the missed throws because they are off set by an unusually large number of safe tosses.

I think AR's performance was worse than just the difference in his stats of 2015 compared to his average stats.

[Fritz]

I reiterate here that the guy needs to work on his body language. He really can get negative out there, all that head shaking and shrugging and eye rolling. It doesn't help the juju of the club.

That, and play better.

[George Cumby]

Right. Eye rolling is something a 14 year old girl or C-level Hollywood starlet would do.

It communicates contempt and disrespect pretty clearly.

To be respected, show respect.

If you don't agree with me you are a slope headed window licking moron. :roll:

[Smidgeon]

I've been learning more and more lately about the personalities of perfectionist athletes with an otherworldly desire to win and how that win at all costs mentality leads to basically asshole behavior including breaking teammates down to tears, mocking people who aren't perfect, and breaking unspoken rules (and many spoken ones), just to win.

Michael Jordan is a classic example of this.

But I was thinking about this in regards to the modern NFL. It's almost if as long as "our" players look like saints to the media, then nothing else matters.

Rodgers behavior isn't defined by what we see on TV or in his interview. Like every professional athlete, it's defined by the practices and personal time.

Some eye rolls and looks don't really bother me in light of this since by most reports, Rodgers is a good guy behind closed doors. It could all be a farce, but that's the impression I get.

[Rutnstrut]

It's time to quit making excuses for AR. He is supposed to be one of the best players in the league. A player who should make others better, not a player who loses his accuracy and decision making ability because his OL and WRs have some injuries. He should get the most out of other players. I don't think we can say he got the most out of his WRs last year, not with all of the overlooked opportunities and missed throws there were.

AR had a down year. Now we need to see if it was the new normal for him, or a one year aberration.

Great post and spot on IMO.

[Bretsky]

I reiterate here that the guy needs to work on his body language. He really can get negative out there, all that head shaking and shrugging and eye rolling. It doesn't help the juju of the club.

That, and play better.


agree; and you can add some if his mannerisms at press conferences to support your point as well

[George Cumby]

I dunno'. I kind of like the edge he shows with idiot reporters.

But that needs to be reserved for idiot reporters and not his team.

[pbmax]

Let Aaron Be Aaron!

LABA!

[Upnorth]

Let Aaron Be (Incredible )Aaron!

LAB(I)A!

Fixed

[George Cumby]

Beat me to it, UN.

[woodbuck27]

It's time to quit making excuses for AR. He is supposed to be one of the best players in the league. A player who should make others better, not a player who loses his accuracy and decision making ability because his OL and WRs have some injuries. He should get the most out of other players. I don't think we can say he got the most out of his WRs last year, not with all of the overlooked opportunities and missed throws there were.

AR had a down year. Now we need to see if it was the new normal for him, or a one year aberration.

There's some 'Hard Hitting' journalism there Patler. . . . . and .... :idea:

[mraynrand]

Since I am dedicated to looking forward, does anyone know how Rodger's funny little calf is progressing?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2014/09/22/1411397858326_wps_41_Picture_Shows_This_calf_w.jpg

[MadtownPacker]

Not really. That occurred before he was drafted...Maybe they took the real ARod and the one they replaced him with played at an out of this world MVP level. Then they took him back when they saw he might breed with the inferior Earth female.

[SMBASS]

Maybe they took the real ARod and the one they replaced him with played at an out of this world MVP level. Then they took him back when they saw he might breed with the inferior Earth female.

Lol! I think you may be onto something there Mad! Seems like a plausible explanation to me.

[woodbuck27]

agree; and you can add some if his mannerisms at press conferences to support your point as well

Aaron Rodgers is the leader of the team.

He needs to demonstrate a little more moxy on the field. That attitude transfers to the whole team.

[Rutnstrut]

It's easy to be a good leader when things are going good. But when things get tough is when true leaders stand out. Rodgers has shown he can do the easy part.

[Upnorth]

Maybe they took the real ARod and the one they replaced him with played at an out of this world MVP level. Then they took him back when they saw he might breed with the inferior Earth female.

Finally someone returns to the original absurd point for this thread.
I am impressed it made it into reality land for a bit.

I think there has been a tremendous gnashing of teeth this off season. However I will be tremendously surprised if what we have seen last year is the new normal. I doubt Nelson and Cobb will both be injured this year. We likely have a stretch the center TE. We have okay OL depth that will likely be added to.
If we don't have a top 10 O my jaw will hit the floor.

[mraynrand]

It's easy to be a good leader when things are going good. But when things get tough is when true leaders stand out. Rodgers has shown he can do the easy part.

:) That's the spirit! Never say die! Rodgers has never demonstrated that he can win when the chips are down! To the last I grapple with thee! LOL.

[Pugger]

It's easy to be a good leader when things are going good. But when things get tough is when true leaders stand out. Rodgers has shown he can do the easy part.

Are you suggesting Rodgers wasn't a leader this past season?

[pbmax]

Give RutNStrut a break. When the team you root for is 83-44 under a QB, Head Coach and General Manager you despise, there is little blame to apportion so you have to spread it around.

Not to mention actual bad players on the team.

[mraynrand]

Remember the good ol days when everything could be blamed on Jarrett Bush? Good times.

[George Cumby]

Don't forget Eric Walden.

[Rutnstrut]

Are you suggesting Rodgers wasn't a leader this past season?

No, he wasn't a great leader. I never said he wasn't a great QB, although last year he was mediocre. There are many players in the NFL that are excellent players, but poor leaders. Cam Newton comes to mind right away as does Rodgers, although imo Rodgers is a better leader than Cam,

[Pugger]

I don't think Rodgers is as poor a leader as you seem to believe. He may not be a vocal leader like some others but there is more to being a leader than a rah-rah type guy.

[pbmax]

I don't think Rodgers is as poor a leader as you seem to believe. He may not be a vocal leader like some others but there is more to being a leader than a rah-rah type guy.

You aren't suggesting that fans cannot get a good read on player dynamics from just watching television, are you?

[Maxie the Taxi]

NP

[yetisnowman]

You aren't suggesting that fans cannot get a good read on player dynamics from just watching television, are you?

I can't speak to player dynamics per se. But I can unequivocally say, that pouting and carrying on like a petulant child when things aren't going well is a sign of poor leadership. As is berating teammates when they make mistakes. Especially when Aaron himself made plenty of mistakes and poor throws in critical moments. It's just bush league.

[mraynrand]

No, he wasn't a great leader. I never said he wasn't a great QB, although last year he was mediocre. There are many players in the NFL that are excellent players, but poor leaders. Cam Newton comes to mind right away as does Rodgers, although imo Rodgers is a better leader than Cam,

I can think of 25 teams that would have liked Rodger's 2015 mediocrity.

[pbmax]

I can't speak to player dynamics per se. But I can unequivocally say, that pouting and carrying on like a petulant child when things aren't going well is a sign of poor leadership. As is berating teammates when they make mistakes. Especially when Aaron himself made plenty of mistakes and poor throws in critical moments. It's just bush league.

I would say the play of his WR was more bush league than his in 2015. By a long stretch.

His behavior is just a sideshow compared to the performances.

[Pugger]

I can think of 25 teams that would have liked Rodger's 2015 mediocrity.

QFT

[Patler]

I think many are failing to give Aaron Rodgers his due credit for the mediocrity of his season.
It was positively Staffordish, even Cutler-like, but in a less flamboyant manner.
He deserves to be recognized for that.

[yetisnowman]

I would say the play of his WR was more bush league than his in 2015. By a long stretch.

His behavior is just a sideshow compared to the performances.

You are missing the point. I know you have a difficult time holding Rodgers accountable for anything (unless it's good of course). The receivers were not good last year. No one is disputing that. Injuries, and inconsistent performances. That doesn't mean Aaron is immune to criticism. He is the mvp, the face of the franchise, a veteran, and the best player on the team...I'll say it again. Him being demonstrative, and acting like a pouting toddler, disrespecting his teammates, etc is a sign of poor leadership. I'm not sure you can argue that.

[pbmax]

You are missing the point. I know you have a difficult time holding Rodgers accountable for anything (unless it's good of course). The receivers were not good last year. No one is disputing that. Injuries, and inconsistent performances. That doesn't mean Aaron is immune to criticism. He is the mvp, the face of the franchise, a veteran, and the best player on the team...I'll say it again. Him being demonstrative, and acting like a pouting toddler, disrespecting his teammates, etc is a sign of poor leadership. I'm not sure you can argue that.

If there is an actual critique of Rodgers (see Patler above, though I disagree with his concern of it being the new normal) I would happily discuss.

But you are conveniently forgetting all the yelling, screaming and hollering that other MVP quarterbacks have done, on the field and on the sideline. Brady has thrown helmets and Manning has buried teammates in the press. Both whine constantly on the field. Favre, originally remarkable for not embarrassing his receivers like others of his time, late in his career called them out in the press and on the field. So I take the idea that this is prima facie evidence of poor leadership with a grain of salt.

When he was a rookie starter, he might have needed to tone it down. But he is a 2 time MVP and Super Bowl winner now and carries more authority.

Rodgers threw a tablet on the sideline of the Panthers game and everyone jumped to the conclusion he was mad at his teammates or receivers or the play call. The reality? He was mad at himself for abandoning his original read. Same, I bet, for a number of overthrows deep during the season.

We cannot read the mind of his teammates or know what is covered, said and done in meetings or in practice. We do not know what is expected of his teammates on a play. Until we hear that its causing trouble in the locker room, this is simply assigning great meaning to something that likely is meaningless. We grant it great meaning because we can easily see it on the TV.

[Tony Oday]

You are missing the point. I know you have a difficult time holding Rodgers accountable for anything (unless it's good of course). The receivers were not good last year. No one is disputing that. Injuries, and inconsistent performances. That doesn't mean Aaron is immune to criticism. He is the mvp, the face of the franchise, a veteran, and the best player on the team...I'll say it again. Him being demonstrative, and acting like a pouting toddler, disrespecting his teammates, etc is a sign of poor leadership. I'm not sure you can argue that.

Your analysis is flat out dumb. I doubt you watch the games and post this sophomoric BS just to stir the pot. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

[George Cumby]

^^ remember the sideline vid of Manning being a complete cunt to his OL?

His LT, Tarik Glenn (?), tells him to sit down andshut up.

[yetisnowman]

If there is an actual critique of Rodgers (see Patler above, though I disagree with his concern of it being the new normal) I would happily discuss.

But you are conveniently forgetting all the yelling, screaming and hollering that other MVP quarterbacks have done, on the field and on the sideline. Brady has thrown helmets and Manning has buried teammates in the press. Both whine constantly on the field. Favre, originally remarkable for not embarrassing his receivers like others of his time, late in his career called them out in the press and on the field. So I take the idea that this is prima facie evidence of poor leadership with a grain of salt.

When he was a rookie starter, he might have needed to tone it down. But he is a 2 time MVP and Super Bowl winner now and carries more authority.

Rodgers threw a tablet on the sideline of the Panthers game and everyone jumped to the conclusion he was mad at his teammates or receivers or the play call. The reality? He was mad at himself for abandoning his original read. Same, I bet, for a number of overthrows deep during the season.

We cannot read the mind of his teammates or know what is covered, said and done in meetings or in practice. We do not know what is expected of his teammates on a play. Until we hear that its causing trouble in the locker room, this is simply assigning great meaning to something that likely is meaningless. We grant it great meaning because we can easily see it on the TV.

I loathe Peyton Manning. Moot point. And I agree about Brady. However, what I see Brady do a lot that I rarely see Aaron do is offer positive encouragement to his teammates. Getting in their face, and trying to pump them up.....being vocal and animated in a positive way towards them. But I never brought up Manning/Brady. And I don't care for all their antics either.

You can say its meaningless, but you have no evidence of that. Logically, I would argue it is more likely to mean something. I saw a lot of tension on this team last year. If you didn't see that, you weren't paying attention. Not putting even the bulk of the blame on Aaron, but he needs to lead by example.

[yetisnowman]

Your analysis is flat out dumb. I doubt you watch the games and post this sophomoric BS just to stir the pot. I award you no points and may God have mercy on your soul.

Oh here's the guy that when he disagrees with an assessment he likes to accuse me of not watching games. Remember when I said the Vikings would be our toughest competition in the division last year? You said the same thing, "Oh I just realized you don't watch football". Ooops, maybe its you who doesn't watch the games? Or maybe if you disagree with my assessment, counter with a healthy discussion, instead of being a cranky douchebag about it?

[mraynrand]

However, what I see Brady do a lot that I rarely see Aaron do is offer positive encouragement to his teammates. Getting in their face, and trying to pump them up.....being vocal and animated in a positive way towards them.

It's interesting that we see different things

[Upnorth]

Leadership. Interesting topic. If you really think about the leaders in your life how do they show good leadership? Have you seen them during times of major stress?
Real leadership on teams occurs on a day in day out basis. Real leaders show real emotions across the spectrum but tend to show steady control and their true nature most of the time. Real leaders are critical of themselves as well as others appropriately, while holding themselves to the highest standards.
Real leaders expect the best of themselves and those around them.
From what I have seen Aaron is one of the leaders before during and after the game, who occasionally over reacts due to error. I have never met a true leader who has not made mistakes.
He is not perfect, but I have heard him take more responsibility for error in press conferences than blame others. His 'tantrums ' o the sidelines do occur, but not as often as his encouragement of others, from the games I have watched.

[yetisnowman]

It's interesting that we see different things

I'm not talking about celebrating after a score. I'm talking about on the sideline, pregame, talking to the o-line, d-line, whomever it may be.....smacking their pads, trying to fire them up. Do you see Aaron doing that often?
Also, if Aaron had 6 superbowl appearances and 4 rings....I would find it much easier to pay no mind to these kind of things.

[yetisnowman]

I just found that last year, and last year only, I was bothered by the frequency he was whining and visibly annoyed/frustrated. That's all . If you disagree, fine. Not a big deal.

[mraynrand]

I'm talking about on the sideline, pregame, talking to the o-line, d-line, whomever it may be.....smacking their pads, trying to fire them up. Do you see Aaron doing that often?

All the time. Every game I've been to he seems to be working with and encouraging others on the sideline. Before the game, in warm-ups and during the game with the defense on the field. If not, then he's taking instruction from coaches or sometimes just sulking and pouting.

[mraynrand]

I just found that last year, and last year only, I was bothered by the frequency he was whining and visibly annoyed/frustrated. That's all . If you disagree, fine. Not a big deal.

I saw that body language too, especially after missed throws or dropped throws. You could tell there were times when he was pissed at someone for running the wrong route and pissed at himself for missing a throw. I don't have stats, but I have the impression that when Rodgers screws up he holds his helmet from both sides with his hands and when someone else screws up he shakes his head in disgust or gestures at the receiver.

[Joemailman]

I'm not talking about celebrating after a score. I'm talking about on the sideline, pregame, talking to the o-line, d-line, whomever it may be.....smacking their pads, trying to fire them up. Do you see Aaron doing that often?
Also, if Aaron had 6 superbowl appearances and 4 rings....I would find it much easier to pay no mind to these kind of things.

You're judging Rodgers based on what you've seen, and haven't seen from him when he's on television. You and we are not in the clubhouse. We're not at practice. We don't really see him during the half of the game when the defense is on the field. 2 years in a row the Packers have lost a playoff game in overtime where the Packers offense didn't get to take the field in overtime because the defense couldn't make a stop. This after he had led the offense to a tying score late in the game. As frustrating as that must have been, I didn't hear one negative word from Rodgers about that. Sometimes leadership is what you DON'T do. I saw him play the NFC Title Game on 1 leg against the best defense in the NFL. That's leadership. Last year I heard him say in post-game PC's that the banged-up offensive line had played fine when in reality they hadn't played fine. He stood up there and took the heat. That's leadership. He's not perfect. Last year was a frustrating year and at times his frustration showed. That makes him less than perfect, but it's not a lack of leadership.

[RashanGary]

AR had a down year. Now we need to see if it was the new normal for him, or a one year aberration.

Yep!

[George Cumby]

I saw that body language too, especially after missed throws or dropped throws. You could tell there were times when he was pissed at someone for running the wrong route and pissed at himself for missing a throw. I don't have stats, but I have the impression that when Rodgers screws up he holds his helmet from both sides with his hands and when someone else screws up he shakes his head in disgust or gestures at the receiver.

I propose we start keeping stats so we can quantify our imperfect, partial and tragically flawed data set.

IMO, we should start with the following categories, feel free to contribute or not:

1) Pursed Lips
2) Eyeroll
3) Head Shake

A) Rueful

B) Disgusted

C) What da' Fuq, Janis?

4) Hand to Forehead
5) Double hands to Helmet
6) Any Combination of Two of the above
7) Any Combination of Three or More of the above

[KYPack]

I propose we start keeping stats so we can quantify our imperfect, partial and tragically flawed data set.

IMO, we should start with the following categories, feel free to contribute or not:

1) Pursed Lips
2) Eyeroll
3) Head Shake

A) Rueful

B) Disgusted

C) What da' Fuq, Janis?

4) Hand to Forehead
5) Double hands to Helmet
6) Any Combination of Two of the above
7) Any Combination of Three or More of the above

Ya got a half a laugh out of me.

Good post, George.

[mraynrand]

I propose we start keeping stats so we can quantify our imperfect, partial and tragically flawed data set.

IMO, we should start with the following categories, feel free to contribute or not:

1) Pursed Lips
2) Eyeroll
3) Head Shake

A) Rueful

B) Disgusted

C) What da' Fuq, Janis?

4) Hand to Forehead
5) Double hands to Helmet
6) Any Combination of Two of the above
7) Any Combination of Three or More of the above

This is the future of deep stats at ESPN: Total QBPR (Quarterback physiognomy rating). Until Disney sells them off, of course.

[Patler]

I'm not sure leadership comes easily to AR. I have never known a real leader to talk about being a leader as much as AR does. It's awkward at times. Some people are leaders because of who they are, others are thrust into it because of what they are. The QB has to be, AR recognizes that but at times he seems to plan it out too much instead of letting it happen. At times, it's almost like he analyzes his actions, then acts. For the best leaders it comes naturally, from who they are.

I have never been a big rah-rah guy, and I think it is a tiny part of leadership in the pro sports environment.

My concern about AR from 2015 was more on his own performance. His accuracy and vision. He didn't seem to have the same feel for the game that he has had in the past. He didn't see enough of the opportunities that were there. He didn't make his receivers better than expected, etc.

[George Cumby]

He's not a first born. Hes a middle kid. Leadership isn't a natural role for a middle.

[wootah]

He's not a first born. Hes a middle kid. Leadership isn't a natural role for a middle.

Also he is a sagittarius and according to this fridge magnet this means he can be impatient, tactless, demanding and overly critical.

http://www.signs-unique.co.uk/ekmps/shops/autounique/images/sagittarius-sign-negative-traits-funny-fridge-magnet-2667-p.bmp

[ThunderDan]

Also he is a sagittarius and according to this fridge magnet this means he can be impatient, tactless, demanding and overly critical.

http://www.signs-unique.co.uk/ekmps/shops/autounique/images/sagittarius-sign-negative-traits-funny-fridge-magnet-2667-p.bmp

We must have a lot of late November/December birthdays at Packerrats!

[mraynrand]

I think someone needs to examine Rodger's scat. I am not volunteering.

[Fritz]

I actually agree with yeti here. Arod makes buku bucks. All that eye rolling and gesturing to the heavens makes him look like a whiny 10 year old boy.

And I don't care about Manning. He's an A-hole and the Broncos carried his ass this year.

[George Cumby]

I think someone needs to examine Rodger's scat. I am not volunteering.

I'll take it for the team on this one, but someone else needs to read his entrails.

[pbmax]

^ I don't think we need to be reminded that after offseason entrails reading surgery, QBs tend to have terrible years.

[George Cumby]

^ Maybe that's what happened LAST off-season.

[mraynrand]

All that eye rolling and gesturing to the heavens makes him look like a whiny 10 year old boy.

I agree with this part

[mraynrand]

^ I don't think we need to be reminded that after offseason entrails reading surgery, QBs tend to have terrible years.

Brett Fave had sixteen feet of colon removed and then threw five TD passes the next day.

[pbmax]

Brett Fave had sixteen feet of colon removed and then threw five TD passes the next day.

His entrails said he was too numb to know better.

Mike and Vikes!

[mraynrand]

I'm pretty good at reading the entrails from jet airplanes.

[Rutnstrut]

You're judging Rodgers based on what you've seen, and haven't seen from him when he's on television. You and we are not in the clubhouse. We're not at practice. We don't really see him during the half of the game when the defense is on the field. 2 years in a row the Packers have lost a playoff game in overtime where the Packers offense didn't get to take the field in overtime because the defense couldn't make a stop. This after he had led the offense to a tying score late in the game. As frustrating as that must have been, I didn't hear one negative word from Rodgers about that. Sometimes leadership is what you DON'T do. I saw him play the NFC Title Game on 1 leg against the best defense in the NFL. That's leadership. Last year I heard him say in post-game PC's that the banged-up offensive line had played fine when in reality they hadn't played fine. He stood up there and took the heat. That's leadership. He's not perfect. Last year was a frustrating year and at times his frustration showed. That makes him less than perfect, but it's not a lack of leadership.

WHAT???? It was fine to judge Favre by what people seen and heard on TV, but not Rodgers?

[Pugger]

I actually agree with yeti here. Arod makes buku bucks. All that eye rolling and gesturing to the heavens makes him look like a whiny 10 year old boy.

And I don't care about Manning. He's an A-hole and the Broncos carried his ass this year.

Rodgers' gesturing is nothing compared to the crap we see Brady do when NE is struggling but no one questions his leadership.

[smuggler]

Rodgers' gesturing is nothing compared to the crap we see Brady do when NE is struggling but no one questions his leadership.

Pretty much. Success gives you a pass on a lot of shit in our society.

[George Cumby]

Question: Does Brady elevate the play of those around him?

Does Rodgers?

(BTW: I can't stand Brady's or Mannings antics)

[mraynrand]

WHAT???? It was fine to judge Favre by what people seen and heard on TV, but not Rodgers?

It depends on what was seen and heard, doesn't it? Looked to me like Joe was giving examples of things seen and heard that recommend well for Rodgers. Favre did things that we saw and heard that were good and things that were bad. Joe is giving evidence of good stuff from Rodgers. I suspect you will focus on the bad stuff. Either way, it's all legit.

[mraynrand]

Question: Does Brady elevate the play of those around him?

yep. He even made Terrell Buckley look good.

[pbmax]

It depends on what was seen and heard, doesn't it? Looked to me like Joe was giving examples of things seen and heard that recommend well for Rodgers. Favre did things that we saw and heard that were good and things that were bad. Joe is giving evidence of good stuff from Rodgers. I suspect you will focus on the bad stuff. Either way, it's all legit.

I actually think he meant to respond to someone else, probably me.

To save him the time of redirecting, let me say that I think questioning leadership by watching TV is a fool's errand no matter the QB. I gave the examples of other QBs to point out that there might be other factors at work than what we observe on the tube.

[Patler]

Question: Does Brady elevate the play of those around him?

Does Rodgers?


That's an interesting question. For years, QB enthralled fans have told us that first Favre, then Rodgers "made" their WRs. Many argued that really our WRs were not that good, the QBs made them.

Does anyone question that for Rodgers after 2015? Did he "make" his receivers last year, or is there evidence that without top notch receivers Rodgers' performance suffers?

[mraynrand]

I actually think he meant to respond to someone else, probably me.

To save him the time of redirecting, let me say that I think questioning leadership by watching TV is a fool's errand no matter the QB. I gave the examples of other QBs to point out that there might be other factors at work than what we observe on the tube.

I remember Cliff Cristl absolute ripping to shreds some fan in a post-game chat who made the assertion that he knew, KNEW! Favre was going to play horribly by the look on his face in pregame warmups.

And thus, Cleft Crusty was born....

[Pugger]

yep. He even made Terrell Buckley look good.

How come Brady didn't look so great without Gronk and Edelman this past season? Luckily for TB he got both of them back for the playoffs.

[Patler]

Rodgers had everyone they wanted back from 2014 except Nelson. For Nelson, they found Jones, who AR played with for years. Sure, some were dinged up at times, but mostly they played. Not like the year when they went through something like 10 or 11 WRs. The only change from the start of the year in 2015 was losing Montgomery, a rookie.

[mraynrand]

Rodgers had everyone they wanted back from 2014 except Nelson. For Nelson, they found Jones, who AR played with for years. Sure, some were dinged up at times, but mostly they played. Not like the year when they went through something like 10 or 11 WRs. The only change from the start of the year in 2015 was losing Montgomery, a rookie.

I'm kind of astonished by this. I never saw you as a fiction writer.

[Patler]

They wanted Cobb from 2014, they had Cobb in 2015.
They wanted Adams from 2014, they had Adams in 2015.
They wanted Abbrederis from 2014, they had Abbrederis in 2015.
They wanted Janis from 2014, they had Janis in 2015.
They wanted Nelson from 2014, they did not have Nelson in 2015.

They only returning WR they lost was Nelson. Replacing him with Jones was helpful in that there was familiarity between Jones and AR, and with Jones and the offense. That was evident from the first game of the season.

Yes, it would have been nice to have Montgomery, but he was a rookie, so losing him was not a change from 2014.

Pro athletes are hurt all the time, but if they are well enough to play, and start, the excuse (if any) is small.

[mraynrand]

Pro athletes are hurt all the time, but if they are well enough to play, and start, the excuse (if any) is small.

well, that's the point really. Did the injuries have an impact or not? You seem to think their impact was minimal. I disagree.

[dsilby]

They wanted Cobb from 2014, they had Cobb in 2015.
They wanted Adams from 2014, they had Adams in 2015.
They wanted Abbrederis from 2014, they had Abbrederis in 2015.
They wanted Janis from 2014, they had Janis in 2015.
They wanted Nelson from 2014, they did not have Nelson in 2015.

They only returning WR they lost was Nelson. Replacing him with Jones was helpful in that there was familiarity between Jones and AR, and with Jones and the offense. That was evident from the first game of the season.

Yes, it would have been nice to have Montgomery, but he was a rookie, so losing him was not a change from 2014.

Pro athletes are hurt all the time, but if they are well enough to play, and start, the excuse (if any) is small.
James Jones and Jordy Nelson are not even in the same conversation. You can not compare a top 5 receiver in the NFL to a guy who couldn't even find a roster spot in the NFL. You're completely under valuing what Jordy brings to the team.
Jordy would take the top off a defense having them drop 2 safeties back and 1 always shading towards Jordy's side. That is attention Jones would never see. Jones would get locked up by 1 corner and that's all. Jordy on the field alone makes all the other receives better.
Jordy on the field would have defenses play more 7 man fronts that opens up the run game further where with Jones, defenses could play 8 up front since Jones could get locked up by one guy.
The loss of Jordy was huge, more so than even I thought at the beginning of the season.

[Patler]

James Jones and Jordy Nelson are not even in the same conversation. You can not compare a top 5 receiver in the NFL to a guy who couldn't even find a roster spot in the NFL. You're completely under valuing what Jordy brings to the team.
Jordy would take the top off a defense having them drop 2 safeties back and 1 always shading towards Jordy's side. That is attention Jones would never see. Jones would get locked up by 1 corner and that's all. Jordy on the field alone makes all the other receives better.
Jordy on the field would have defenses play more 7 man fronts that opens up the run game further where with Jones, defenses could play 8 up front since Jones could get locked up by one guy.
The loss of Jordy was huge, more so than even I thought at the beginning of the season.

I did not compare Jones to Nelson. I didn't compare anyone to Nelson. I did compare Jones to replacing Nelson with a guy off the street who didn't know the offense or AR. It was better to have Jones than, for example, Taco Wallace who they had to bring in the year they replaced the WR roster once over plus.

Losing Nelson was significant, but it wasn't the sole reason the passing offense was so bad. Rodgers had a lot to do with it too. Especially if he was the reason Janis and/or Abbrederis saw so little playing time.

[Patler]

well, that's the point really. Did the injuries have an impact or not? You seem to think their impact was minimal. I disagree.

I don't think injuries were the primary factor in the downturn of the passing game. When players practice and play, their injuries are not a significant excuse.

Rodgers got the majority of credit when the offense was so good. Best in the league, future HOFer, etc. If that was deserved, and I believe it was, he also has to shoulder blame for 2015.

[mraynrand]

I don't think injuries were the primary factor in the downturn of the passing game.

really? wow

[Patler]

I don't think injuries were the primary factor in the downturn of the passing game. When players practice and play, their injuries are not a significant excuse.


really? wow

Unless AR's knee was affecting his accuracy (which it might have), his vision (which it didn't) and his willingness to allow Janis and Abbrederis to be on the field with him (if he really did influence those decisions.)

[Patler]

Did the injuries have an impact or not? You seem to think their impact was minimal. I disagree.

Take heart, better men than you have made that mistake, too; disagreeing with me.

Probably a good opportunity for a little introspection on your part.
Why are you making this grievous error?
How could you be so wrong?

If you put in the work, it will make you a better person.

Either that, or just wait until I give my opinion, then copy it. I don't mind.

[George Cumby]

Rodgers was off last year.
There is no doubt.
Fans shed tears,
They scream and shout.

"Why, why, why?"
Was it his knee?
Did the receivers not try?
Was it me? Oh me, oh my.

Why the sneers?
Why the grimace?
Is he a leader?
Or just a menace?

The answer is plain,
I tell you, my son.
It gives me great pain
To say "Olivia Munn".

[mraynrand]

Unless AR's knee was affecting his accuracy (which it might have), his vision (which it didn't) and his willingness to allow Janis and Abbrederis to be on the field with him (if he really did influence those decisions.)

I think
1) You're giving these two roster-bottom scrapers more credit than they're due. Possibly they develop into more than 3s or 4s or 5s, but likely not. Even if they do, they were pretty green in 2015 (and Abby was missing time too).
2) Maybe 'ol mishappen-calf/knee ache man wasn't driving the decision whether these mega-stud WRs were on the field. Maybe it was 'ol gravity well Stubby
3) Maybe all the other crap like injured O-line, Fat Lacy that we've discussed ad naseum actually had an effect on Rodgers or just had an effect on the offense and Rodgers just couldn't lose weight for Lacy or heal the wounded sick and lame with His Word.
4) Rodgers had a down year - there's no doubt about it

My conclusion: The WR injuries, O-line problems and Fat Lacy were all factors that collectively hurt the offense far more than Rodger's reduced accuracy and vision. And I swore I was going to focus on Rodger's likely poor play in 2016 instead of 2015. So much for my integrity.

[Upnorth]

I did not compare Jones to Nelson. I didn't compare anyone to Nelson. I did compare Jones to replacing Nelson with a guy off the street who didn't know the offense or AR. It was better to have Jones than, for example, Taco Wallace who they had to bring in the year they replaced the WR roster once over plus.

Losing Nelson was significant, but it wasn't the sole reason the passing offense was so bad. Rodgers had a lot to do with it too. Especially if he was the reason Janis and/or Abbrederis saw so little playing time.

Loosing Nelson hurt. Having Cobbs shoulder banged up hurt. Having those two limited gave us no starting wr's. I the oline and you have a down year. I expect a bounce back. I hope I'm right.

[Upnorth]

Take heart, better men than you have made that mistake, too; disagreeing with me.

Probably a good opportunity for a little introspection on your part.
Why are you making this grievous error?
How could you be so wrong?

If you put in the work, it will make you a better person.

Either that, or just wait until I give my opinion, then copy it. I don't mind.

I think part of the blame lies at ARods feet, but much like a QB gets too much credit for wins by some they also get too much blame for losses by some. I hope, and believe you are currently in the last camp Patler. Feel free for an I told you so in January 2017 if you're right.

[Patler]

I think
1) You're giving these two roster-bottom scrapers more credit than they're due. Possibly they develop into more than 3s or 4s or 5s, but likely not. Even if they do, they were pretty green in 2015 (and Abby was missing time too).
2) Maybe 'ol mishappen-calf/knee ache man wasn't driving the decision whether these mega-stud WRs were on the field. Maybe it was 'ol gravity well Stubby
3) Maybe all the other crap like injured O-line, Fat Lacy that we've discussed ad naseum actually had an effect on Rodgers or just had an effect on the offense and Rodgers just couldn't lose weight for Lacy or heal the wounded sick and lame with His Word.
4) Rodgers had a down year - there's no doubt about it

My conclusion: The WR injuries, O-line problems and Fat Lacy were all factors that collectively hurt the offense far more than Rodger's reduced accuracy and vision. And I swore I was going to focus on Rodger's likely poor play in 2016 instead of 2015. So much for my integrity.

Re your #1) - not at all suggesting they are budding stars, but GB basically played with 3 WRs most of the year. Even if he wasn't perfect, Janis running fast down field could have helped change things up a little. Abbrederis catching a few passes now and then between concussions or other injuries could have changed things up a little. Having 4 WRs on the field a little more often could have changed things up a little, especially if it was someone who might take two steps after catching the ball before falling down, unlike RR.

Re your #2) - MM has not hesitated using rookies when they are needed, and these two weren't rookies. Over the years MM has given a lot of questionably talented WRs opportunities now and then, yet these two hardly saw the field in their second seasons. Brett Swain didn't see a lot of targets, but he played a lot as a 4th and even 5th WR. Were Ruvell Martin and Jarrett Boykin that much more talented than Abbrederis? or even Janis?

If Cobb, Adams and Jones were that limited by their injuries, wouldn't it have made sense to give Janis a chance now and then, or use Abbrederis more regularly?

Something was different about the use of Abbrederis and Janis this year than we saw in years past with WRs no more talented than these two.

[mraynrand]

Rodgers was off last year.
There is no doubt.
Fans shed tears,
They scream and shout.

"Why, why, why?"
Was it his knee?
Did the receivers not try?
Was it me? Oh me, oh my.

Why the sneers?
Why the grimace?
Is he a leader?
Or just a menace?

The answer is plain,
I tell you, my son.
It gives me great pain
To say "Olivia Munn".

Our national poet

Knee, my

grimace, menace

LOL

[Patler]

Some of you make it sound as if the Packers had no ground game at all. Lacy obviously had conditioning issues, the O-line had some injuries; and yet the Packers were 12th in rushing yards, 12th in rushing attempts and tied with four others for 11th in yds/carry average. The Packers had more rushing yards than Denver, and the same average per carry. Rodgers had no more attempts himself then he typically has when he plays a full season.

Blaming the ground game for Rodgers' performance is somewhat grasping for straws.

[Patler]

I think part of the blame lies at ARods feet, but much like a QB gets too much credit for wins by some they also get too much blame for losses by some. I hope, and believe you are currently in the last camp Patler. Feel free for an I told you so in January 2017 if you're right.

I'm hoping that his knee was more of a problem than was let on, but I am a little concerned about his change in accuracy that was first mentioned in training camp.
Who knows? Maybe his off season was "different" last year, he will make changes this year and everything will return to normal. I hope he has 6 or 7 years yet that will be just as good as the previous ones, and a few after that when his smarts and experience will keep him as one of the best in the league.

Then again, maybe at age 32 he is entering the last four or five years of his career. Lots of QBs retire at 35-37.

Careers go fast sometimes.

[George Cumby]

Aikman went at 34.

[pbmax]

James Jones had a career year at an advanced age after two other teams gave up on him. He might have nearly doubled his previous high production marks in some areas had he not hurt his hammy and gotten even slower.

I can see an argument for Cobb, but he got hurt early and was not fully healthy for a couple of games. Even so, he set a career high for targets on one fewer start and was down 12 receptions.

As we have discovered at other positions, sometime Packers do not get the production they anticipate from younger players. That seems to have been the case with the rest of the depth.

So injured Cobb versus a diminished Rodgers. My money is on Rodgers being more of a constant.

[pbmax]

Re your #2) - MM has not hesitated using rookies when they are needed, and these two weren't rookies. Over the years MM has given a lot of questionably talented WRs opportunities now and then, yet these two hardly saw the field in their second seasons. Brett Swain didn't see a lot of targets, but he played a lot as a 4th and even 5th WR. Were Ruvell Martin and Jarrett Boykin that much more talented than Abbrederis? or even Janis?

If Cobb, Adams and Jones were that limited by their injuries, wouldn't it have made sense to give Janis a chance now and then, or use Abbrederis more regularly?

Something was different about the use of Abbrederis and Janis this year than we saw in years past with WRs no more talented than these two.

Abby saw the field pretty quickly after he healed and Rodgers was enthusiastic about him playing. But he still was behind Adams for playing time at the end of the year. The braintrust clearly wanted Adams to deliver in a big way and were willing to be stubborn about it all year. I suspect its because they do not play the same receiver position in the offense.

McCarthy said that Janis struggled even to catch the ball over his shoulder until the middle part of the season, which gives you some idea of how raw he still is. I doubt he mastered the skill before the end of the season. I do agree with you and Maxie that after a certain point it didn't matter and you just have to play to his jump ball, run to an open spot strengths, but they really did not have faith in him this year.

I still believe the no huddle and Rodgers version of the offense tied this team in knots the last two years when they had to adjust. I think its the biggest challenge McCarthy has this year. If healthy out wide, it might not matter. But if injuries happen again or they are in a tight game late versus a very good D and need a score, it might still be an issue.

[Patler]

Aikman went at 34.

Yup, and McNair and Bledsoe last played at 34, McNabb at 35, Esiason at 36
Some think Romo is winding down at 35.

I said in another thread, when Hundley's contract is up in 3 years, and AR is 35 years old, the Packers could have a decision on their hands. There is no guarantee that Rodger won't be done when his contract runs out after the 2019 season when he will be 36.

[Pugger]

I don't think injuries were the primary factor in the downturn of the passing game. When players practice and play, their injuries are not a significant excuse.

Rodgers got the majority of credit when the offense was so good. Best in the league, future HOFer, etc. If that was deserved, and I believe it was, he also has to shoulder blame for 2015.

I don't think anyone is saying Rodgers was blameless for last season's woes but the state of our WR corps in 2015 wasn't as good as 2014 and it wasn't just the loss of Jordy. Folks thought Adams was going to make up for the loss of Jordy but that poor kid had a terrible season with a bad wheel and drops. Cobb is not a #1 guy. He's a pretty nice slot guy and Swiss army knife but he isn't big or fast enough to battle with other teams' top DBs. Jones was okay initially but after a while when he had to go up against a #1 corner or safety he disappeared. Then Montgomery got hurt so we were left with JJ, Abby who is fragile and misses a lot of practice time and Janis who is fast but can't figure out the playbook. Even the best QBs in the league suffer when they have nobody to throw to. IF Rodgers looks like he did in 2015 this coming season then we have something to concern ourselves with.

[Patler]

I don't think anyone is saying Rodgers was blameless for last season's woes but the state of our WR corps in 2015 wasn't as good as 2014 and it wasn't just the loss of Jordy. Folks thought Adams was going to make up for the loss of Jordy but that poor kid had a terrible season with a bad wheel and drops. Cobb is not a #1 guy. He's a pretty nice slot guy and Swiss army knife but he isn't big or fast enough to battle with other teams' top DBs. Jones was okay initially but after a while when he had to go up against a #1 corner or safety he disappeared. Then Montgomery got hurt so we were left with JJ, Abby who is fragile and misses a lot of practice time and Janis who is fast but can't figure out the playbook. Even the best QBs in the league suffer when they have nobody to throw to. IF Rodgers looks like he did in 2015 this coming season then we have something to concern ourselves with.

I don't disagree with any of that. My point is simply that AR did a lot to make a precarious situation even worse than it had to be. Great QB play would have taken that situation and made it less impactful.

Since late in the season, I have argued that the key for 2016 will be finding out if 2015 was an aberration, or AR's new normal. We can't automatically expect he will play to 38, 40 or beyond. He is rapidly approaching the age at which many do begin to fade. Hopefully, he will not be one of those.

[gbgary]

That's an interesting question. For years, QB enthralled fans have told us that first Favre, then Rodgers "made" their WRs. Many argued that really our WRs were not that good, the QBs made them.

Does anyone question that for Rodgers after 2015? Did he "make" his receivers last year, or is there evidence that without top notch receivers Rodgers' performance suffers?

i always hate when i hear people say that qbs makes their wrs better. they were open weren't they? they caught the ball didn't they? it takes two to complete a pass. hell sometimes a wr will make a great catch on a poorly thrown ball and that just makes the qb look better in the box score.

[woodbuck27]

It's going to all be very interesting.

TT has to find another speedy WR in the draft. The Packers 'O' has to find a way to return to TOP FIVE.

[mraynrand]

.. impactful...

save it for the post-graduate program application

[Rutnstrut]

I don't think anyone is saying Rodgers was blameless for last season's woes but the state of our WR corps in 2015 wasn't as good as 2014 and it wasn't just the loss of Jordy. Folks thought Adams was going to make up for the loss of Jordy but that poor kid had a terrible season with a bad wheel and drops. Cobb is not a #1 guy. He's a pretty nice slot guy and Swiss army knife but he isn't big or fast enough to battle with other teams' top DBs. Jones was okay initially but after a while when he had to go up against a #1 corner or safety he disappeared. Then Montgomery got hurt so we were left with JJ, Abby who is fragile and misses a lot of practice time and Janis who is fast but can't figure out the playbook. Even the best QBs in the league suffer when they have nobody to throw to. IF Rodgers looks like he did in 2015 this coming season then we have something to concern ourselves with.

So Adams gets the free pass due to injury but Jones doesn't. You do realise that that the time Jones play declined last season coincides with his hamstring injury? He at least played through it, and usually made the most of his targets. Adams on the other hand had more drops than most teams receivers combined. Even with a banged up receiver group, Rodgers should get a lot of the blame. It was plain to see he was inaccurate and just not his usual self last year.

[pbmax]

Jones will be available in August. Why take up the spot now?

[Pugger]

So Adams gets the free pass due to injury but Jones doesn't. You do realise that that the time Jones play declined last season coincides with his hamstring injury? He at least played through it, and usually made the most of his targets. Adams on the other hand had more drops than most teams receivers combined. Even with a banged up receiver group, Rodgers should get a lot of the blame. It was plain to see he was inaccurate and just not his usual self last year.

Who's giving Adams a free pass? I said he was terrible this year dropping passes right in his mitts. But he is a lot more talented than Jones is at this point in their respective careers. There is a reason why we aren't offering JJ a contract this season. Rodgers wasn't his usual self but he wasn't as dreadful as some here are suggesting either. There were many reasons for our offensive issues last year. There is enough blame to go around.

[Rutnstrut]

Rodgers gets the glory, he can get the grief as well. As far as Adams, he showed his true talent last season. He is all he will ever be.

[George Cumby]

Rodgers merits a suitable amount of criticism for last year.

As does Adams.

Rodgers will probably return to form.

I wouldn't throw Adams out with the bath water just yet.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers let frustration get the best of him at times last year.

Adams to me looked like a guy who got off to a bad start and then lost his confidence. We'll see if he has the mental toughness to rebound.

[Bretsky]

Montgomery will be better than Adams very very soon IMO

[MadtownPacker]

Montgomery will be better than Adams very very soon IMOFuck off cockgobbler!!

Why are all of you ignoring the fact that shit started to go bad when that halfanse cutie got ARod hooked on her wonton???

[pbmax]

Fuck off cockgobbler!!

Why are all of you ignoring the fact that shit started to go bad when that halfanse cutie got ARod hooked on her wonton???

They started dating in 2014, the year he won the MVP. Again.

[mraynrand]

Fuck off cockgobbler!!

Why are all of you ignoring the fact that shit started to go bad when that halfanse cutie got ARod hooked on her wonton???

poetry

[mraynrand]

Rodgers gets the glory, he can get the grief as well.

Sure, if you want to view football from a Chris Berman perspective.

[George Cumby]

They started dating in 2014, the year he won the MVP. Again.

It just took her some time. Remember, the Beatles weren't destroyed in a day.

[pbmax]

It just took her some time. Remember, the Beatles weren't destroyed in a day.

Fair enough. :lol:

But in 2010-11, internet rumor had him shacking up with his assistant. Clearly this is a man who does better when he isn't going home alone. Someone to ask how his day has been and let him blow off steam about recalcitrant WRs.

[mraynrand]

Someone to ask how his day has been and let him blow off steam about recalcitrant WRs.

better than rolling his eyes and throwing tantrums on the field as he is wont to do

[pbmax]

better than rolling his eyes and throwing tantrums on the field as he is wont to do

I think you have hit on the issue. Olivia was probably out filming X-Men during that time.


http://blog.screenweek.it/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/psylocke-oliviamunn-copertina.jpg

[MadtownPacker]

They started dating in 2014, the year he won the MVP. Again.
Thanks for further proving my point Poindexter. He was on top of the NFL world but then he did all the YouTube vids and "cute" bullshit. Loss of focus IMO. He shouldnot be chasing he should be replacing. Sure there are plenty of WI hoochies and if not he can come home to Cali plenty of them here. As long as he wears his raincoat he will be fine.

[woodbuck27]

Thanks for further proving my point Poindexter. He was on top of the NFL world but then he did all the YouTube vids and "cute" bullshit. Loss of focus IMO. He shouldnot be chasing he should be replacing. Sure there are plenty of WI hoochies and if not he can come home to Cali plenty of them here. As long as he wears his raincoat he will be fine.

Yes.

Aaron Rodgers has 'the Huge Contract' and the respect of the analysts and is very busy enjoying the celebrity ...the limelight.

He should be more down home during his off time.

Take some tips on hunting and it's meditative benefits from Favre.

Lighten up on the field and act like a real leader and get that fricken mope off his face. Aaron Rodgers has to try more to keep his emotions in check...place a contain on his body language.

[pbmax]

What about being in a movie, should he do that?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpY8O_MRWaI&t=2m23s

[mraynrand]

^^. That movie is illegal in 21 States.

[woodbuck27]

What about being in a movie, should he do that?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpY8O_MRWaI&t=2m23s

Hilarious !

[MadtownPacker]

So his little bro is throwing him under the bus?

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/bachelorette-jordan-opens-jojo-strained-031500716.html

I gotta side with ARod on this. I wouldn't want to associate with a family member involved with this kind of shit freakshow.

[pbmax]

I can't speak for ARod, but I wouldn't appear at the family table for a taping of the Bachelor or Bachelorette either.

[George Cumby]

So his little bro is throwing him under the bus?

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/bachelorette-jordan-opens-jojo-strained-031500716.html

I gotta side with ARod on this. I wouldn't want to associate with a family member involved with this kind of shit freakshow.

Like Aaron, I am the middle of three sons. Obviously, the similarities end there. But for all middle sons everywhere, I say this:

Fuck you, Little brother. Your incessant whining, bitching, complaining, tattling, cheap shot emotional manipulations and inferiority complex are what ails our relationship, not my superior skills, abilities and independence born of being the middle child. While you were whinging to Mom what a meanie I was, bull shit, by the way, I was forging my own identity because unlike you or big brother, I was on my own. I wasn't the special first born, Apple of Dads eye or Mommy's little angel baby. I was the man without a country, and this was the crucible which forced me to grow and develop internal resources which you can never truly comprehend.

I am combative by nature. Why? Because I faced attacks on all fronts, sandwiched between you and old A Number One and your collective triangulation of your patron parents against me. But remember, everything I have done, I have done on my own. I have earned it. Those awards and accolades on my wall? I earned them. Me. No one gave me any of this shit. I earned it through hard work and grit and the understanding that nothing would ever be given to me.

Enjoy your fifteen minutes, little brother. You are whoring your no talent self in the most pathetic, wretched way imaginable. Once again, instead of going out, working and earning something, you have opted for the easy way out, throwing me under the bus to garner some small recognition. But by doing so you only reinforce your own inferiority by comparing yourself to me. Again. And in a disgusting, self serving public fashion. Pathetic.

I'll see you at Christmas. Don't be drunk this year. Mom hates that.

[MadtownPacker]

Ouch! No issues there fucker, haha! But it sounds about right and maybe leans towards this Rodgers family situation.

[Patler]

It's not uncommon for famous individuals from common, everyday families to go through periods of strained relationships with family members. They no longer do the same things or travel in the same circles. Their families often have little understanding of what it is like to be them and see only the wealth and fame, not the pressures that go along with it. On the other hand, the individual can lose sight of the more simple life and the difficulties that go with it. They often trivialize it unfairly. There can be a lot of resentment on both sides. The family resents that everything is about the one whenever they are together, and that family events are never just theirs anymore. The famous member often becomes defensive and feels used, taken advantage of.

Strained relationships become worse because of things like this show. Would Jordan Rodgers have been on the show if Aaron Rodgers had been no better of a QB than Jordan was? If AR feels about the show like I do, he might even feel somewhat embarrassed that his brother is on it. He can feel used by his brother and for a purpose he doesn't approve of.

Too bad. It wasn't that many years ago that there were many off season stories and videos about Aaron and Jordan working out together, and the very regimented routine they had. They seemed close at that time.

[call_me_ishmael]

I am very skeptical that Aaron doesn't want his brother on there, etc. Aaron has more than enough money to make situations like this go away. It's all about the Rodgers brand. Any publicity is good publicity. I haven't seen the show but I'd be shocked if the brother doesn't win.

[Patler]

I am very skeptical that Aaron doesn't want his brother on there, etc. Aaron has more than enough money to make situations like this go away. It's all about the Rodgers brand. Any publicity is good publicity. I haven't seen the show but I'd be shocked if the brother doesn't win.

I would be very surprised if AR has much control at all over what his brother does.

[Pugger]

We are talking about a prime-time reality show that resembles a freaking soap opera? :lol: Why anyone would waste their precious time watching that drivel is the real story here. Man, you can really tell it is the offseason...

[George Cumby]

Ouch! No issues there fucker, haha! But it sounds about right and maybe leans towards this Rodgers family situation.

Lol! :-)

IMO the basic family dynamics are the driving factor, celebrity and the pressures thereof only exacerbate the issues.

[call_me_ishmael]

I would be very surprised if AR has much control at all over what his brother does.

Maybe, but I can see a little momma Kardashian in the way Aaron runs his empire*. I perceive him trying to get himself more and more into the spotlight.

*Complete and utter speculation

[pbmax]

Lol! :-)

IMO the basic family dynamics are the driving factor, celebrity and the pressures thereof only exacerbate the issues.

After dinner drinks with the Cumbys would be a better watch than the Bachelorette. :lol:

My guess on the most straightforward explanation is that there is no way that the control freak AR lets a reality show tape him while having no control over the situation. They can gin up all sorts of uncomfortableness for him and his family during the visit and have complete control over how that is edited and presented.

It would be like asking Candid Camera to film your funeral.

[hoosier]

Pretty brutal on many different levels. But I have to say I am with Pugger: who wastes their time watching this crap in the first place???

[Guiness]

Jordan's quote was pretty telling, guy has some issues for sure.

And pb's right, no way Aaron shows up at that dinner with the cameras rolling. They would have total control, would probably do something ridiculous like have Brian Urlacher show up as a surprise guest! He would be the center of attention, which would probably make Jordan resent him even more.

[Smidgeon]

My speculation is that Aaron isn't showering Jordan with money, so Jordan is bitter and the family "estranged".

Plus, what Cumby said.

[pbmax]

Entirely possible, given the reality show world, that this is simply a play for more drama and airtime.

[Cheesehead Craig]

It would be like asking Candid Camera to film your funeral.

I think they did that at Allen Funt's funeral. It was a hoot.

[gbgary]

once people leave the nest it's only natural that they grow apart to a degree especially if they don't live in the same city and/or their jobs demand a lot of their time...that and a lot of what GC says (it makes sense to me. i was a #1 son but my family dynamic wasn't like his so i can't relate.) plus maybe AR's family are just a bunch of knobs and he's bored with their...scene. lol

[Harlan Huckleby]

once people leave the nest it's only natural that they grow apart to a degree

Did I land in the Ellen Degeneres Show forum? When does the football start, I'm getting itchy. Sick to death of Hillary vrs. Trump. Blocking and tackling!

[Cheesehead Craig]

I'm getting itchy.
There's creams for that.

[Pugger]

Pretty brutal on many different levels. But I have to say I am with Pugger: who wastes their time watching this crap in the first place???

Unfortunately I know a few women that do. :-P

But if we think about it we can imagine the tensions that could arise when one son is wildly successful in his craft while the other, who was pursuing the same career, is not. Jealousy can rear its ugly head in this instance.

[gbgary]

Did I land in the Ellen Degeneres Show forum? When does the football start, I'm getting itchy. Sick to death of Hillary vrs. Trump. Blocking and tackling!

http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/William-Shatner-Slapping-Himself.gif


sorry! lost my focus for a minute there.

[MadtownPacker]

Looks like TT's ways have rubbed off on Rodgers. Doesn't appears to approve of loading up the roster with FAs.

http://www.csnbayarea.com/warriors/rodgers-warriors-super-team-doesnt-sit-right-everybody

[Pugger]

I finally bothered to read what Jordan said about Aaron and this entire "story" is being blown way out of proportion. From what I could gather Jordan says he doesn't have contact with his brother and AR doesn't spend a lot of time with the family. So because 2 busy men haven't been in contact they must now hate each other? I have a brother who I rarely talk to because of our schedules (plus he doesn't live near me) but that doesn't mean we hate each other. No wonder AR tries not to talk about his personal life to reporters.

[gbgary]

great time for his dad to chime in.

aaron-rodgers'-dad-confirms-they-are-not-on-speaking-terms (http://deadspin.com/aaron-rodgerss-dad-confirms-they-are-not-on-speaking-te-1791235958)

[RashanGary]

That's sad. Hope they work it out.

Lots of brokenness in our society today. I come from some brokenness. People just value the wrong things. I really hope the best for him. And if it's really his fame causing it, I hope he learns and grows. I forgive Brett and I'll forgive Aaron for being imperfect the same way i forgive myself.

[pbmax]

great time for his dad to chime in.

aaron-rodgers'-dad-confirms-they-are-not-on-speaking-terms (http://deadspin.com/aaron-rodgerss-dad-confirms-they-are-not-on-speaking-te-1791235958)

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/15/sports/football/aaron-rodgers-green-bay-packers-nfl-playoffs.html?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur&_r=1

Love that the family doesn't want the family laundry aired but somehow it still does, with quotes from everyone but the QB.

And what is the hell is this:


It has been easier in some ways, he said, since “The Bachelorette,” which included a scene at the Rodgers home in Chico of Jordan and Fletcher dining at a table with Ed, Darla and their oldest son, Luke, and two empty chairs reserved for Rodgers and Munn.

There should be a joke about Moses at dinner here but I can't recall the details and Google is failing me.

That kind of thing makes me think younger brother wants a ride on the celebrity coattails. Might be how he finagled a spot on the Bachelor.

[Upnorth]

Just before the dallas game???? What kind of parent makes a comment like that at his time?

[Smidgeon]

Just before the dallas game???? What kind of parent makes a comment like that at his time?

The kind who has earned not being on speaking terms with his kid.

[Rutnstrut]

The kind who has earned not being on speaking terms with his kid.

It goes two ways, it can't all be on Arod or his father. I speak from experience on this from BOTH sides.

[woodbuck27]

great time for his dad to chime in.

aaron-rodgers'-dad-confirms-they-are-not-on-speaking-terms (http://deadspin.com/aaron-rodgerss-dad-confirms-they-are-not-on-speaking-te-1791235958)

Issues that go on and in the negative between any person and his or her family are not the business of anyone else. It is difficult enough for an individual to fully understand and or get a clear grip on more so try to explain anything to anyone else.

I always say we need to be comfortable in our own skin and lend deaf ears to anyone who condemns or judges us.

[RashanGary]

Issues that go on and in the negative between any person and his or her family are not the business of anyone else. It is difficult enough for an individual to fully understand and or get a clear grip on more so try to explain anything to anyone else.

I always say we need to be comfortable in our own skin and lend deaf ears to anyone who condemns or judges us.

Yep. People who live life and take it all in, the good feelings and the tough ones know not to judge or harm others because we've felt all of what it feels like both ways and know better. Aaron can keep on growing into the best him he can be and anyone judging needs to look in the mirror first.

[Packman_26]

It goes two ways, it can't all be on Arod or his father. I speak from experience on this from BOTH sides.
Sure it can, it absolutely can be one sides fault. Maybe a parent walks out on his family or has a double life or is abusive. Or even one side is making effort and the other has no part in making it work. I don't pretend to know Rodgers situation (or obviously yours) so that's not to say that it isn't on both sides but it absolutely can be the fault of one in particular.

[Packman_26]

And as a parent, I find it sickening that his family, especially his parents would parade this around in the media and then have the gall to blame it on his celebrity. It could be that he changed and it started all of this, but regardless of whatever happened with my kids or who's fault it was, the only thing I'd want is to repair the relationship. And these pricks have talked about this publicly numerous times. I had no idea that they set up 2 empty chairs on that trash tv show. That is the type of behavior of people that care more about being right or "winning" the fight than that of people that want to end it. I'd feel bad for Rodgers or Jay Cutler or just about anyone else that has family that would try hurt or humiliate him publicly like that.

[hoosier]

Source: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/15/sports/football/aaron-rodgers-green-bay-packers-nfl-playoffs.html?smid=tw-nytsports&smtyp=cur&_r=1

Love that the family doesn't want the family laundry aired but somehow it still does, with quotes from everyone but the QB.

And what is the hell is this:



There should be a joke about Moses at dinner here but I can't recall the details and Google is failing me.

That kind of thing makes me think younger brother wants a ride on the celebrity coattails. Might be how he finagled a spot on the Bachelor.

Elijah, not Moses. Empty seat at Passover. I only know one Passover joke and it's not about Elijah.

Morris and Lisa invite Larry, their goy neighbor, over for a Passover dinner. The first course is served and Lisa says to Larry, “Have some matzoh ball soup.”
When Larry spies the two large matzoh balls in the soup, he isn't sure he wants to have anything to do with it. But Morris talks him into giving it a try. “Just give it a taste. If you don’t like it, you don’t have to finish it. Nobody will be offended.”

So Larry has a taste. He digs his spoon in and picks up a small piece of matzoh ball with some soup. He tastes it carefully and, to his surprise, discovers that it's really good. He then proceeds to gobble down the rest.

“That was delicious”, says Larrry. “Can you eat any other part of the matzoh?”

[pbmax]

Elijah, not Moses. Empty seat at Passover. I only know one Passover joke and it's not about Elijah.


One bad search term and it was fruitless.

[hoosier]

Well, you had the right mood, surprised something didn't pop up. Wandering in the desert, sitting for hours at the dinner table waiting for the interminable Seder to end so you can eat, what's the difference?

[Tony Oday]

I'm on ARs side because he wins football games and his dad isn't my chiropractor.

[pbmax]

I'm on ARs side because he wins football games and his dad isn't my chiropractor.

I hope his Dad is not the kind of chiropractor who has a poster telling you how aligning your spine will reduce your allergy symptoms.

[texaspackerbacker]

This is none of anybody's business and basically a non-story.