What Is The Packers Biggest Need Heading Into This Coming Draft?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Pundits and websites have been naming the Packers' team needs going into this draft and their opinion of team needs has been reflected in their various Mock Drafts. I'm interested in hearing what ya'll think is the Packers' most difference-making need in this year's draft.

Part of my thinks "pass rush" and the other part says "protecting Arod's blind side." Considering who is likely to be available at #27, I guess that translates to guys like Frank Dodd, Leonard Floyd or Noah Spence VS Jack Conklin, Jason Spriggs or Taylor Decker.

I'd guess, if push came to shove -- assuming TT and MM evaluate any of the three candidates as an ELITE player, I'd have a hard time not picking an elite Left Tackle.

What say you?

[jklowan]

Pundits and websites have been naming the Packers' team needs going into this draft and their opinion of team needs has been reflected in their various Mock Drafts. I'm interested in hearing what ya'll think is the Packers' most difference-making need in this year's draft.

Part of my thinks "pass rush" and the other part says "protecting Arod's blind side." Considering who is likely to be available at #27, I guess that translates to guys like Frank Dodd, Leonard Floyd or Noah Spence VS Jack Conklin, Jason Spriggs or Taylor Decker.

I'd guess, if push came to shove -- assuming TT and MM evaluate any of the three candidates as an ELITE player, I'd have a hard time not picking an elite Left Tackle.

What say you?


I'd say the biggest needs are ILB, DT & OLB in that order, a left tackle seems like a luxury pick for the 1st. I'd be okay if it truely is Best Player available, but in all honesty that pick will get limited playing time compared to the others. I am leaning towards DT in the 1st as that is the deepest position and it would give us a good one, I am also starting to hope we could trade back into the high 2nd and maybe pick up a 3rd

[Smidgeon]

OLB

I am of the mindset that Barrington and Ryan will be serviceable, above average players (not superstars). For the ILB position, I think this is enough to get us through another year without being a weakness. HOWEVER, Peppers is on his last year of his contract, and unless Datone Jones is the second coming of Deacon Jones (hint: he isn't), they will need another rusher hitting his stride opposite Matthews next year.

After that, I think Tackle is more important than ILB due to the number of linemen on the last year of their contract. Sure, the backups may be talented enough to be starters, but we won't know how the chips fall until they do.

Then DT, then ILB, then TE.

Next year will be quite interesting.

[Guiness]

I think a tackle is a need even though both are under 30 and good players. Bakh had a hard time staying on the field at key times last season (is his back going to get better?), and Bulaga does every year. Barclay is an experienced, but limited backup.

[George Cumby]

OT.

No strong rationale, just my gut.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I'd say the biggest needs are ILB, DT & OLB in that order, a left tackle seems like a luxury pick for the 1st. I'd be okay if it truely is Best Player available, but in all honesty that pick will get limited playing time compared to the others. I am leaning towards DT in the 1st as that is the deepest position and it would give us a good one, I am also starting to hope we could trade back into the high 2nd and maybe pick up a 3rdI'm curious why you specified ILB, DT and OLB. Can you quantify they playing traits your after? For example, are you trying to improve our pass rush, or our defense against the run, or maybe pass defense over the middle, or more speed? What is it?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Next year will be quite interesting.That's for sure!

I've done several mock drafts and in about half using the NFL Data Base Conklin and/or Spriggs have been available. But then again, so has Frank Dodd in some and Leonard Floyd in others. Ragland is a big temptation, but I tend to agree that they'll go with Ryan and Barrington.

Have you thought about using Dodd as an OLB ala Peppers?

[jklowan]

I'm curious why you specified ILB, DT and OLB. Can you quantify they playing traits your after? For example, are you trying to improve our pass rush, or our defense against the run, or maybe pass defense over the middle, or more speed? What is it?

Have you watched our defense the ILB position has sucked for years, I'd like to get faster and hopefully better coverage skills - alot of the mocks I've seen has Daren Lee available, I think he'd be a BIG upgrade over what we have. I also think DT because if your not gonna upgrade the ILB then maybe a Big Run stopper will help with the mediocre talent there currently. I also am okay with a tackle as we always have injury problems there but I'd like to address it later, like Haeg in the 4th and then maybe a guard in the 5th or later

[texaspackerbacker]

If a near sure thing prospect of an O Tackle is there when we draft, I suppose I agree. But two things about that: first, there probably won't be a sure thing OT, and second, we have a terrible history of highly drafted OTs. I really thought Sherrod was gonna be something special, but he was less than expected before the injury, and less than nothing after. And it ain't just the Packers. A helluva lot of high #1 pick OTs seem to flop or at least not perform like you'd expect based on where they were drafted.

I'd be leery of a ILB in the first round too, as even the best don't seem to merit picks that high.

So what does that leave? Things we mostly don't need. If something resembling a young Clay Matthews was available, I'd go with that.

Not to be negative or anything, but I've got a bad feeling that Thompson is gonna try and grab the new B.J. Raji.

[esoxx]

ILB

[mraynrand]

Offensive fricking line. Priority from outside in.

[gbgary]

this team needs so much but if last year taught us anything it reminded us that if our o can't carry it's weight the d, how ever heroic, can't hold up. i've bounced between ol and wr and i'm going with wr. we have two question marks coming off surgery, cobb, a forth, and two benchwarmers. we need a hit at wr.

[run pMc]

OT, ILB, OLB, DL. Of Sitton, Lang, Bahk, and Tretter, I'd be surprised if more than 2 of them came back. If Peppers retires, they still have Jayrone and a shot at resigning Perry or spending a high round pick next year on someone. They seem thinner depth wise this year at ILB since they cut Palmer and with Ryan and Barrington. Pennel's suspension and Raji's retirement make the depth important, but they have Ringo and Boyd comes back from IR.

[Carolina_Packer]

BAP at a position of need. How's that for fence sitting? There might not be an ILB that's worth the draft slot at #27, so you clearly also need a DT and an OT that is able to compete for a starting OT spot, become solid depth, or has the flexibility to move inside if needed. It would be great to have some young, talented depth and not just a college free agent doing the best he can.

If it was my choice, I'd say DT, because there is a chain reaction to being able to stop the run and create favorable down and distance for the pass rush that also needs to be more consistent. My first and second round ultimate would be Andrew Billings, DT, Baylor in the 1st and Deion Jones, ILB (chase linebacker) in the 2nd. I realize that's pretty D heavy, and while the offense does need some help, getting Jordy back is like a free agent signing to this offense. Jarred Cook, if he stays healthy, could really open up the middle of the field that the Pack could not exploit last year.

So you get your immovable object in Billings who also has a little pass rush in him. His strength is off the charts. Then you get your chase linebacker in Deion Jones, who will be like a poor man's Darron Lee. Then in the third round you get either a WR like Mike Thomas from Southern Mississippi or pass rusher like Matt Judon out of Grand Valley State. Then you can go RB who can catch the ball out of the backfield, a TE like Tyler Higbee and then a CB and G for depth. Ah, the draft!

[Maxie the Taxi]

BAP at a position of need. How's that for fence sitting? There might not be an ILB that's worth the draft slot at #27, so you clearly also need a DT and an OT that is able to compete for a starting OT spot, become solid depth, or has the flexibility to move inside if needed. It would be great to have some young, talented depth and not just a college free agent doing the best he can.

If it was my choice, I'd say DT, because there is a chain reaction to being able to stop the run and create favorable down and distance for the pass rush that also needs to be more consistent. My first and second round ultimate would be Andrew Billings, DT, Baylor in the 1st and Deion Jones, ILB (chase linebacker) in the 2nd. I realize that's pretty D heavy, and while the offense does need some help, getting Jordy back is like a free agent signing to this offense. Jarred Cook, if he stays healthy, could really open up the middle of the field that the Pack could not exploit last year.

So you get your immovable object in Billings who also has a little pass rush in him. His strength is off the charts. Then you get your chase linebacker in Deion Jones, who will be like a poor man's Darron Lee. Then in the third round you get either a WR like Mike Thomas from Southern Mississippi or pass rusher like Matt Judon out of Grand Valley State. Then you can go RB who can catch the ball out of the backfield, a TE like Tyler Higbee and then a CB and G for depth. Ah, the draft!Good plan, but I think it falls apart because Billings won't be there at 27, at least according to everything I've seen. I don't know about Higbee either. Is he that much better than a undrafted FA?

[Maxie the Taxi]

this team needs so much but if last year taught us anything it reminded us that if our o can't carry it's weight the d, how ever heroic, can't hold up. i've bounced between ol and wr and i'm going with wr. we have two question marks coming off surgery, cobb, a forth, and two benchwarmers. we need a hit at wr.If one of the top WR's is there at 27 (say Sterling Shepard), it would be tempting (and it would be so Tedish). :-)

[Maxie the Taxi]

If a near sure thing prospect of an O Tackle is there when we draft, I suppose I agree. But two things about that: first, there probably won't be a sure thing OT, and second, we have a terrible history of highly drafted OTs. I really thought Sherrod was gonna be something special, but he was less than expected before the injury, and less than nothing after. And it ain't just the Packers. A helluva lot of high #1 pick OTs seem to flop or at least not perform like you'd expect based on where they were drafted.

I'd be leery of a ILB in the first round too, as even the best don't seem to merit picks that high.

So what does that leave? Things we mostly don't need. If something resembling a young Clay Matthews was available, I'd go with that.

Not to be negative or anything, but I've got a bad feeling that Thompson is gonna try and grab the new B.J. Raji.You're right about OT's, especially possible left tackles. The three I mentioned rate pretty high among the pundits though. It is a crap shoot.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Offensive fricking line. Priority from outside in.I sure don't want to be in the position again of having to start Sitton at LT.

[call_me_ishmael]

Leonard Floyd is gonna be a good player I think. I take him in an instant.

[woodbuck27]

It will be some one who plays on the DL.

[Carolina_Packer]

It will be some one who plays on the DL.
I agree with this, Wood. Maxie, I think you are right, but hope you are wrong about Billings being there. Ted's typically done a good job of reconciling need to draft position, and doesn't reach. Aside from drafting a franchise QB, I see no mistake in drafting for a position of need, as long as the value of the pick matches the draft board. Who doesn't need a good DT or an OT with excellent footwork who can play inside early in his career if necessary? I agree with the saying get the big guys early. Good big guys are rare. You know when you have average ones, that's for sure. The other team's big guys are pushing them around. You want ARod protected, get a big guy. You want the ILB's to do a better job? Get a big guy.

[pbmax]

I'm not saying first, or even third round, but they must sign a punter to scare Masthay.

[wist43]

ILB

I think we're all-but dead at the position, except in base. I think Barrington is better than Ryan, but that both of them are strictly base 3-4 LB's. We have absolutely no speed at the position, and teams will continue to scheme their TE's and RB's to take advantage of this major weakness. My most vivid memories of both Barrington and Ryan are of them helplessly trailing RB's down the field that have cleared them by 3-5 yards.

If TT doesn't make a move to fill the hole left by moving Matthews back outside - the defense as a whole will take a big step backward; and, I think that is enough of a downgrade to suggest that it is very unlikely that we'll be able to hang with the Big Boys.

[wist43]

It will be some one who plays on the DL.

There is a ton of depth at the DL in this draft - I can see TT playing cute, and spit on DL in the first 2 rounds figuring that he'll be able to get a good one further down... and he probably will be able to land a good one further down.

Still, if a good DT is there in the first round - Billings, Rankins, Clark, et al... it would be hard to pass on any of those guys.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As I said in my other post, I think ILB is our biggest weakness, but if a good ILB isn't there in the 1st round, I'd be perfectly with any of those DT's, or Decker. I like Decker a lot.

[mraynrand]

ILB

I think we're all-but dead at the position, except in base.

I actually think the Packer's base nickel is where they need help at ILB - to free Matthews again to rove and rush from more spots. Packers are pretty well-suited at ILB for run defense on obvious running downs/against run heavy teams (all four of them).

[Carolina_Packer]

I'm not saying first, or even third round, but they must sign a punter to scare Masthay.

I'm beyond scaring him. I hope it's a serious replacement. I know it's a tough job, but punter is a weapon, and Masthay seems beyond sharpening at this point.

[Carolina_Packer]

ILB

I think we're all-but dead at the position, except in base. I think Barrington is better than Ryan, but that both of them are strictly base 3-4 LB's. We have absolutely no speed at the position, and teams will continue to scheme their TE's and RB's to take advantage of this major weakness. My most vivid memories of both Barrington and Ryan are of them helplessly trailing RB's down the field that have cleared them by 3-5 yards.

If TT doesn't make a move to fill the hole left by moving Matthews back outside - the defense as a whole will take a big step backward; and, I think that is enough of a downgrade to suggest that it is very unlikely that we'll be able to hang with the Big Boys.

With the release of Palmer, and lack of quality at the position, I have to believe that they have a plan for addressing the position. How could they not? If there is an ILB that fits at #27, I'm OK with that. If Ragland falls to #27, and the Packers draft him, no complaints, because who doesn't want Reggie Ragland on their football team? Also, with the depth of DL talent in the draft, you can likely get a productive DL in the 2nd round. That combo can help stop the run, and keep the Packers in favorable pass rush scenarios on 3rd down. Also, I think another rush backer like a Matt Judon type would be a good get. Someone to succeed Peppers.

[pbmax]

Joe Thomas, dime linebacker.

[Pugger]

With Raji gone DT is a big need IMO. Happily this is a pretty decent DL class so we'll end up with a good one in either the first or second round. ILB would be the next pressing need.

Why should we limit ourselves to just OT? Sitton and Lang aren't getting any younger and won't they both be FA after this coming season?

We can find a punter to challenge Masthay in FA after the draft.

[Maxie the Taxi]

With Raji gone DT is a big need IMO. Happily this is a pretty decent DL class so we'll end up with a good one in either the first or second round. ILB would be the next pressing need.

Why should we limit ourselves to just OT? Sitton and Lang aren't getting any younger and won't they both be FA after this coming season?

We can find a punter to challenge Masthay in FA after the draft.Elite-type LT prospects will be gone after 1st round, second round for sure. There are a couple guys later on in the draft that are not elite LT prospects, but are the versatile types (OT/G, or OG/C) that Ted seems to like. I think he'll draft one of them 4th round or so.

[Patler]

It really is time to look at rebuilding the O-line again. They could lose any or all of their starting guards and tackles in 2017, Bahktiari, Sitton and/or Lang to exorbitant contract offers and Bulaga to yet another injury. I don't expect they will lose all of the first three to contract offers, and may not even lose any of them, but it could happen. They might have a serviceable replacement in either Adams or Rotheram, maybe both, to get by for a season or so at guard, but the offense needs at least one that is more than just serviceable. There is nothing at tackle for a longer term replacement.

That said, quality DL is always a need, it seems; so the order in which the needs are addressed does not matter.

I'll be honest here, with the way the NFL plays right now, I'm not sure God has created humans that fill all of the needs at ILB in just one person. It is hard finding a guy with the size of a small DE, the strength of a DT, the speed and agility of a CB and the smarts of a QB.

[pbmax]

^ Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 7h7 hours ago
Thompson admits there's some wiggle room (sort of) in drafting best player available vs. position of need.

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 7h7 hours ago
What about OL, with three players coming up for FA: "Not a lot" of impact on who to draft, he says. "We're not going to stray" off of BPA


A potential down-the-road need exists on the offensive line. While the starting five and top three backups return, left tackle David Bakhtiari and guards Josh Sitton and T.J. Lang are entering their final season under contract. Thompson, however, said their contractual situations wouldn’t impact his thinking in the draft.

“Not at all,” he said, noting it’s possible to sign those three to extensions.

Story that covers his PC, he is quoted as saying "Not at all". http://www.scout.com/nfl/packers/story/1662856-best-available-with-an-asterisk

[vince]

DL - Could be BPA early and another stud is needed
OLB - studs are aging, Perry is year-to-year, Elliot needs to bulk up to be an every down player
OL - tackle depth and hedge for next year's contributor contracts (Bakh, Sitton, Lang, Tretter)
ILB - 3 down guy will be hard to find and will need time to be dependable

[George Cumby]

I'll be honest here, with the way the NFL plays right now, I'm not sure God has created humans that fill all of the needs at ILB in just one person.

Think about this. There are 350 million+ living in the US today. About 15 are capable of playing QB at a really good level. Maybe half of that play at a truly elite level. What an amazing game this really is.

[run pMc]

OT, ILB, OLB, DL. Of Sitton, Lang, Bahk, and Tretter, I'd be surprised if more than 2 of them came back. If Peppers retires, they still have Jayrone and a shot at resigning Perry or spending a high round pick next year on someone. They seem thinner depth wise this year at ILB since they cut Palmer and with Ryan and Barrington. Pennel's suspension and Raji's retirement make the depth important, but they have Ringo and Boyd comes back from IR.

At the risk of replying to my own post, I've reconsidered that DL is more important by OLB...mostly because the DL lost Raji and more or less Datone as well, as he's essentially taking Neal's role as OLB and spot DL duty. Add Pennel's suspension, and the DL is thinner. Plus they signed that kid from Denver to be another OLB. I still think OT and ILB are need spots, and I think TT goes OL or DL in R1 unless Ragland falls to them. I don't see TT spending a high round pick on an ILB.

Regardless, I'm cool with BPA, and I'm sure TT will draft players that will leave me wondering...

[Bretsky]

ILB

this

[wist43]

At the risk of replying to my own post, I've reconsidered that DL is more important by OLB...mostly because the DL lost Raji and more or less Datone as well, as he's essentially taking Neal's role as OLB and spot DL duty. Add Pennel's suspension, and the DL is thinner. Plus they signed that kid from Denver to be another OLB. I still think OT and ILB are need spots, and I think TT goes OL or DL in R1 unless Ragland falls to them. I don't see TT spending a high round pick on an ILB.

Regardless, I'm cool with BPA, and I'm sure TT will draft players that will leave me wondering...

Wait a second... did I miss something?? Datone Jones is moving to LB??

[Carolina_Packer]

Wait a second... did I miss something?? Datone Jones is moving to LB??

http://totalpackers.com/2016/03/lets-not-forget-datone-jones/

He moved during the second half of last season, but because he still split time with DL and never got more than 40% of the defensive snaps, you may not have noticed.

[Striker]

DT, OLB, OL.

With Pennel suspended and Raji gone, they'll need early help. And it doesn't matter how good the ILBs are if the line in front of them is garbage.

And then pass rush (always pass rush) and OL.

[wist43]

http://totalpackers.com/2016/03/lets-not-forget-datone-jones/

He moved during the second half of last season, but because he still split time with DL and never got more than 40% of the defensive snaps, you may not have noticed.

I seem to remember discussing that a bit last year... but life is a blur these days and didn't pay much attn.

Jones is waaaaaayyyyyyy too stiff and unathletic to stand up. No way can he drop with any effectiveness, and to think he could break down and tackle in the open field, even in the crowded underneath zones, is a pipe dream.

If they do stand him up it is b/c they have given up on him as a DL and are grasping at straws. They need to resign Neal.

[Carolina_Packer]

I seem to remember discussing that a bit last year... but life is a blur these days and didn't pay much attn.

Jones is waaaaaayyyyyyy too stiff and unathletic to stand up. No way can he drop with any effectiveness, and to think he could break down and tackle in the open field, even in the crowded underneath zones, is a pipe dream.

If they do stand him up it is b/c they have given up on him as a DL and are grasping at straws. They need to resign Neal.

Unfortunately for your view point, the Packers were patient with Neal as he transitioned from DL, cut weight, and learned how to stand up, so they are likely to do the same with Jones. I never heard whether Jones was trying to cut weight, but if Jones was still 280 something during last season, I'd be surprised if that was his playing weight trying to make that change. Perhaps they will keep him a hybrid role where he can still go back to the line for some subs.

[mraynrand]

Packer's defensive MO is versatility. They like to be able to go from a "2-4" to a "3-3" nickel (and even a kind of "4-2" ) alignment with the exact same personnel on the field - if possible. Having Jones be able to 'stand up' out side would help in that regard.

[pbmax]

Wait a second... did I miss something?? Datone Jones is moving to LB??

He is playing the elephant position like Neal. Will be interior pass rusher only in a few specific calls.

I think they are all in on increasing the regularity of the pass rush and see this as a way to get him on the field more. They never seemed to trust him inside versus the run.

[Deputy Nutz]

I don't think Thompson takes an offensive linemen in the first round unless there is a considerable drop off from the linemen that has a 1st round grade and the next guy on the list.

[Deputy Nutz]

Reggie Ragland brings some diversity to the ILB position and has some pass rush skills that makes him an intriguing prospect. If he drops far enough for the Packers I think you kinda have to take him. I wouldn't be sold on Barrington and Ryan in the middle when you can get a possible difference maker like Ragland. Thompson is going to take whatever he values. It most likely will fill a need as most of his picks do, but when you are talking about the offensive and defensive line every team can use more and more quality depth. Defensive linemen also take a while to develop at the NFL level so don't really expect huge contributions if the Packers take a defensive linemen with their first pick. Be prepared to be disappointed in 2016.

[Guiness]

DL - Could be BPA early and another stud is needed
OLB - studs are aging, Perry is year-to-year, Elliot needs to bulk up to be an every down player
OL - tackle depth and hedge for next year's contributor contracts (Bakh, Sitton, Lang, Tretter)
ILB - 3 down guy will be hard to find and will need time to be dependable

I wonder what kind of a 2nd year jump Jake Ryan makes. No one seems to even mention him here when talk of ILB comes up?

[Deputy Nutz]

Ryan had a really good playoff game against Arizona, considering that Arizona made him look like a fool in week 16 it was nice to see him recover and have a good game.

[George Cumby]

Reggie Ragland brings some diversity to the ILB position and has some pass rush skills that makes him an intriguing prospect. If he drops far enough for the Packers I think you kinda have to take him. I wouldn't be sold on Barrington and Ryan in the middle when you can get a possible difference maker like Ragland. Thompson is going to take whatever he values. It most likely will fill a need as most of his picks do, but when you are talking about the offensive and defensive line every team can use more and more quality depth. Defensive linemen also take a while to develop at the NFL level so don't really expect huge contributions if the Packers take a defensive linemen with their first pick. Be prepared to be disappointed in 2016.

So would you prefer Ragland or a similarly talented DL big body?

[Carolina_Packer]

So would you prefer Ragland or a similarly talented DL big body?

It really depends on who is available at #27. If Andrew Billings and Reggie Ragland are both on the board (doubtful, but go with the thought), how do you have them graded, and need becomes irrelevant in that scenario because you need both. That's tough. Which talent is more rare? That's how I would go. Billings can take on double-teams and rush. A good DL can make an inexperienced, or OK linebacker's job easier. I guess a talented linebacker can cover for a not so stout DL. I'd rather take my chances on a talented big man who can make the linebacker's job easier.

[Deputy Nutz]

So would you prefer Ragland or a similarly talented DL big body?

I think if Thompson feels like he needs a team to make it to the Super Bowl or at least the NFC Championship game very few defensive linemen are going to help him accomplish that in 2016. The D-linemen could be a rotational player, but I would feel like you have to look at your draft tiers. Is their linebacker that the Packers could get in round 2,3,4 that is in the same tier as Ragland? Probably not, but as the D-Line goes this is a very deep draft of talent, so you might get better value waiting on a D-linemen and going with the Linebacker that can most likely contribute as a starter.

It really all depends on how the draft shakes out. More teams might wait on Defensive line and the Packers could get a top 3 prospect. It would be hard to pass that up. ILB has not been a strong position on draft boards and Ragland is clearly the best available, but the Packers do have two starters penciled in at the position. If Ragland is there, he is by no means a lock for the Packers.

If they want Ragland they can't move out of the first round. If they want a first round talent at defensive line, they could move out of the first rouond

[Maxie the Taxi]

I think it was pbmax would said the Pack is all in on creating a more sustained pass rush this year. I think that's great and hope it's true. But that could mean TT surprises us all and grabs a guy like Noah Spence or Leonard Floyd or Frank Dodd (depending on their in=house evaluation of each). On the other hand, moving Clay back to OLB might unleash a beast again.

On the other, other hand, if a highly in-house rated WR falls to 27, TT might pull that trigger.

This is going to be the most interesting draft in recent memory.

[mraynrand]

THat's a good post Maxi. I think it hints at a point that can't be overlooked: In the past 5 drafts, the Packers really haven't drafted a consistent playmaker. Cobb and Lacy both qualify, but with ups and downs. (Ha Ha and a few other s might still emerge). If the Packers want to push for a Super Bowl and/or maintain a high level, they have to pick someone who can tip the scales a little bit. Edge rusher and WR could do that. People might say the Pack is set at WR, but the time to pick that dynamic WR is often a year or so before you need 'em, like they did with Jordy.

[Maxie the Taxi]

THat's a good post Maxi. I think it hints at a point that can't be overlooked: In the past 5 drafts, the Packers really haven't drafted a consistent playmaker. Cobb and Lacy both qualify, but with ups and downs. (Ha Ha and a few other s might still emerge). If the Packers want to push for a Super Bowl and/or maintain a high level, they have to pick someone who can tip the scales a little bit. Edge rusher and WR could do that. People might say the Pack is set at WR, but the time to pick that dynamic WR is often a year or so before you need 'em, like they did with Jordy.Exactly. Some say we're set at WR with the six we have. But if we could pick up an elite playmaker (Doctson?, Coleman?, Shephard?) in the 1st or 2nd Round, I wouldn't mind him beating out Abby or Adams or even JANIS!! (Pains me to say that last name.:-))

[pbmax]

I am still skeptical of Matthews outside. Tackles long ago adjusted to his speed and he doesn't make hay the way he used to. Even Peppers on the other side didn't shake him free like his earlier years. Speaking strictly of pass rush now he was a more effective rusher when inside.

So I want him moving around as much as possible even if he starts on the outside. So the signing of the Denver guy and the move of Jones to elephant full time help support that goal.

I would be stunned if the guy added in Rounds 1 or 2 is an outside rusher. That guy would need to be a Rodgers type free fall.

At DL, the Packers love to trust youth and Guion and Pennell will both be at nose with Daniels, Boyd and the Ringo kid to man the 3 technique. With the exception of an interior pass rusher, a draft player here is likely a rotation guy as Nutz said.

At ILB I think they want Barrington and Ryan to start with Thomas or a starter in on dime. So a draft pick here has a modestly better chance of taking starting reps, though is still likely in certain sub packages.

OL is similar except the caveats are the contracts coming up. They know who the starters are and they are currently healthy. So I think the odds are the Packers take one of these three positions, but I find it hard to believe they value one of these positions as needier than the others.

[mraynrand]

I am still skeptical of Matthews outside. Tackles long ago adjusted to his speed and he doesn't make hay the way he used to. Even Peppers on the other side didn't shake him free like his earlier years. Speaking strictly of pass rush now he was a more effective rusher when inside.

So I want him moving around as much as possible even if he starts on the outside. So the signing of the Denver guy and the move of Jones to elephant full time help support that goal.

I would be stunned if the guy added in Rounds 1 or 2 is an outside rusher. That guy would need to be a Rodgers type free fall.

I agree about the free fall, simply because of the value component. But I don't agree at all (if this was you point) that the Packers are in good shape with respect to pass rush. Peppers is pretty much done, Matthews is getting older and is limited (agree with your assessment, except that I would say Matthews is OK over the RT) and the rest of the pass rushers are pedestrian. They need to do something, but reaching isn't the answer. Moving up might be, but I don't have an opinion on who is worth moving up for. In the past two drafts, I wanted them to move up and take the Steelers picks. I'm done getting my heart set on players we'll never have! :)

[George Cumby]

Matthews isn't the same since he got off of the juice.

[pbmax]

I agree about the free fall, simply because of the value component. But I don't agree at all (if this was you point) that the Packers are in good shape with respect to pass rush. Peppers is pretty much done, Matthews is getting older and is limited (agree with your assessment, except that I would say Matthews is OK over the RT) and the rest of the pass rushers are pedestrian. They need to do something, but reaching isn't the answer. Moving up might be, but I don't have an opinion on who is worth moving up for. In the past two drafts, I wanted them to move up and take the Steelers picks. I'm done getting my heart set on players we'll never have! :)

I completely agree they need more pass rush and they need to restock OLB for future years given Peppers and Perry being on their last year.

But given their moves this offseason (including CMIII back outside) I don't expect them to look at OLB as a need early.

If ILB, interior DL and OL are each 25% chance of being the first pick (based on Packers vision of their needs this year) then I would put OLB at 10%.

[Deputy Nutz]

It all depends on who is there and who Ted values and who is there. I think the Packers could use depth at just about every position beside QB and maybe defensive back in the first round. I

[texaspackerbacker]

Matthews isn't the same since he got off of the juice.

Give Clay some of what Ryan Braun is using - it apparently doesn't show up in piss tests. Seriously, like pbmax said, he ain't quite what he used to be. I liked him a lot better at ILB. That's why everything else being equal, I would go with a athletic OLB, not really to replace him immediately, but to rotate in and eventually be the stud OLB. Since Clay almost certainly ain't going back to ILB, the idea of Ragland is interesting too. I HOPE the pick is not a D Lineman, especially a bloated Raji-type. I think the O Line upgrade(s) are gonna come between the 2nd and 4th rounds.

[Bossman641]

Biggest need this year is ILB. In another year it's probably OL. I'd love to grab Ragland in round 1 and load up on DL/OL in rounds 3-4. Those guys always take a few years to develop anyways and I want an immediate contributor in round 1.

[BZnDallas]

I believe this draft will be heavy on offensive depth. OT, OG, WR,TE and RB. However I believe that will come after TT addresses his D. I agree with Carolina that TT will try and go DT first with hopefully Billings or Butler and add the speedy Jones from LSU at ILB in the 2nd. Barrington and Ryan are the thumpers and Jones will help be the speed this D has lacked in the middle forever. Then draft a couple OL guys, a speedy RB, TE...

[mraynrand]

BZ: Deion Jones? Anyone think he will last until late second round? I think they would have to move to get him. That kind of speed doesn't last - if his pro day number is to be believed.

Ugh. there I went and did it. Now I bet Pittsburgh drafts him...

[BZnDallas]

BZ: Deion Jones? Anyone think he will last until late second round? I think they would have to move to get him. That kind of speed doesn't last - if his pro day number is to be believed.

Ugh. there I went and did it. Now I bet Pittsburgh drafts him...

Yeah thats who i was talking about. I think you're right but hope you're wrong. He's been shooting upboards bc of his speed, but I've read he could need some seasoning. Was hoping the seasoning needed would have him drop to us in round 2. And I totally agree with you that the Steelers have been selecting off my big board recently as well. Argh!

[pbmax]

BZ: Deion Jones? Anyone think he will last until late second round? I think they would have to move to get him. That kind of speed doesn't last - if his pro day number is to be believed.

Ugh. there I went and did it. Now I bet Pittsburgh drafts him...

I knew you were Kevin Colbert.

[denverYooper]

BZ: Deion Jones? Anyone think he will last until late second round? I think they would have to move to get him. That kind of speed doesn't last - if his pro day number is to be believed.

Ugh. there I went and did it. Now I bet Pittsburgh drafts him...

I hope you know this will go down on your permanent record.

[George Cumby]

Give Clay some of what Ryan Braun is using - it apparently doesn't show up in piss tests. Seriously, like pbmax said, he ain't quite what he used to be. I liked him a lot better at ILB. That's why everything else being equal, I would go with a athletic OLB, not really to replace him immediately, but to rotate in and eventually be the stud OLB. Since Clay almost certainly ain't going back to ILB, the idea of Ragland is interesting too. I HOPE the pick is not a D Lineman, especially a bloated Raji-type. I think the O Line upgrade(s) are gonna come between the 2nd and 4th rounds.

Right. Either of the LB positions is a possibility, provided Ted rates them high enough.

TT makes hay in the fourth and he can find a guard there for sure, not sure he finds a solid tackle that late though....

[mraynrand]

I hope you know this will go down on your permanent record.

You all can just kiss off into the air

[Freak Out]

All I know is if Barry Sanders is there you take him.

[mraynrand]

All I know is if Barry Sanders is there you take him.

He's lost a step or two by now.

[gbgary]

People might say the Pack is set at WR, but the time to pick that dynamic WR is often a year or so before you need 'em, like they did with Jordy.

the two coming off surgery aren't running or cutting yet (most players coming off acl aren't really 100% until the next year). cobb is a 2.5, adams is a 2.5, and the bench warmers can't get on the field unless everyone ahead of them is hurt. imo they're a LONG way from being set at wr.

[pbmax]

All I know is if Barry Sanders is there you take him.

"And if someone asks if you are a god, you say YES!"

[pbmax]

You all can just kiss off into the air

Do it all the time.

[gbgary]

"And if someone asks if you are a god, you say YES!"

lol

#zeddemore

[call_me_ishmael]

Front 7 and OL all day long. I expect at least 6 picks at these positions.

[mraynrand]

Do it all the time.

yeah, yeah.

[Fritz]

He's lost a step or two by now.

He's still faster than Lacey was last year.

[mraynrand]

He's still faster than Lacey was last year.

:lol:

http://www.sitcomsonline.com/photopost/data/668/House_Callsnew3232332.JPG

[Freak Out]

LOL.