Bob McGinn: Packers Biggest Draft Need ...The Defensive 'Front Seven'.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/front-seven-on-defense-is-the-foremost-draft-need-b99710014z1-376870361.html

Packers

Front seven on defense is Packers' foremost draft need

By: Bob McGinn of the Journal Sentinel

[red]

so we need help on 64% of our starting defense

way to narrow it down bob

[call_me_ishmael]

He's spot on. The first six picks in this draft are DL, DT, ILB, OLB, OT in my opinion.

[Patler]

He's spot on.

Of course he is spot on. In one way or another his expert has told him that GB needs DL, NT, DE, pass rush, ILB, OLB, OL, OG, OT and a RB. Never mind the duplications, he has identified over half the starting positions.

[Pugger]

I don't think our defense is in this dire of shape. Our biggest hole is probably up the middle with Clay moving back outside and Raji's hiatus. We were pretty good rushing the passer and our secondary is young and improving. Getting a NT and ILB should be priority #1. On offense it wouldn't hurt to improve the depth on the O line.

[mraynrand]

He's spot on. The first six picks in this draft are DL, DT, ILB, OLB, OT in my opinion.

Question: Your skeleton is inside or outside of your body?

[pbmax]

Somewhere there is a Bill James written piece that used to be on the Internet, about the false promise of Insiders in a given subject area. James was arguing with the idea that insiders had access to information that outsiders don't regularly possess, therefore it was impossible to critique them from outside in a meaningful way.

Forget baseball or football for a moment, but the idea in almost any other industry would normally be laughed out of the room. The idea of looking at ideas from outside is attractive precisely because an outside wouldn't be beholden to the shared beliefs inside the business.

Bob is possibly the chief practitioner of this Insider worship among football writers. He frequently reminds people in his chats that he speaks to people actually doing the job and they have much more knowledge than any of us (reporters/readers). Reporters are suckers for this line of thinking because as they are reporting facts as relayed to them by "experts", they are protected by the process of news reporting. Bob didn't get that wrong, people inside the business thought it was a bad idea too. Basically he cannot be blamed for editorializing.

The idea of critiquing football with outside information is only slowly making its way into the coverage. And the big push now is with PFF's numbers.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Love articles like this. :roll: The anonymous "NFL executive" article. To me, these don't mean shit.

[Zool]

Raji retires. Neal not resigned. CM3 moved back to OLB. Couple guys getting their first strike in the drug program. UDFA possibly starting at ILB. Front 7 needs help.

Holy shit this guy is a genius sports writer. Spot on indeed. Guess what, they'll eventually have to replace AR. I should write an article about that.

[call_me_ishmael]

Of course he is spot on. In one way or another his expert has told him that GB needs DL, NT, DE, pass rush, ILB, OLB, OL, OG, OT and a RB. Never mind the duplications, he has identified over half the starting positions.

True. Semantics aside, I do think the Packers will build the front 7 and OL because of looming free agency and then Peppers age, Matthews injury and Raji's sudden retirement.

[mraynrand]

True. Semantics aside, I do think the Packers will build the front 7 and OL because of looming free agency and then Peppers age, Matthews injury and Raji's sudden retirement.

Yeah, they have to build depth at these spots for sure. I guess the interesting thing will be which of DL, DT, ILB, OLB, OT are seen as the greater priority - which are the guys they are absolutely targeting early and which guys later.

[Carolina_Packer]

Somewhere there is a Bill James written piece that used to be on the Internet, about the false promise of Insiders in a given subject area. James was arguing with the idea that insiders had access to information that outsiders don't regularly possess, therefore it was impossible to critique them from outside in a meaningful way.

Forget baseball or football for a moment, but the idea in almost any other industry would normally be laughed out of the room. The idea of looking at ideas from outside is attractive precisely because an outside wouldn't be beholden to the shared beliefs inside the business.

Bob is possibly the chief practitioner of this Insider worship among football writers. He frequently reminds people in his chats that he speaks to people actually doing the job and they have much more knowledge than any of us (reporters/readers). Reporters are suckers for this line of thinking because as they are reporting facts as relayed to them by "experts", they are protected by the process of news reporting. Bob didn't get that wrong, people inside the business thought it was a bad idea too. Basically he cannot be blamed for editorializing.

The idea of critiquing football with outside information is only slowly making its way into the coverage. And the big push now is with PFF's numbers.

Does anyone here recall reading Bob's stuff as far back as he goes with the Packers? I'm assuming that if he's been covering the team for 20 plus years that he was doing so before clicks were important. I wonder if his style has evolved or if he's always been like this. Also, you wonder if that's what he really thinks, or if he feels the need to stir the pot to get people to pay attention. It's kind of the MO of a radio talk show host. Thou shalt (try to) be interesting.

[Patler]

If you are "targeting" the front 7 on defense, OT, OG and RB; it pretty much sets you up for a legitimate "best player available" selection. I don't think it matters what position is taken 1st, especially with six picks in the first four rounds.

[mraynrand]

If you are "targeting" the front 7 on defense, OT, OG and RB; it pretty much sets you up for a legitimate "best player available" selection. I don't think it matters what position is taken 1st, especially with six picks in the first four rounds.

Would you be surprised if the first two picks were d-linemen?

[pbmax]

Would you be surprised if the first two picks were d-linemen?

Yes, if we aren't counting OLBs as lineman.

[call_me_ishmael]

I think they will go BPA from OL, DL, etc unless there is a guy that is clearly a cut above the rest at a position like WR. If Hunter Henry is there in R2 for example, maybe they pull the trigger because of the value proposition. Otherwise, I think they'll go BPA from the 5-6 position groups that could use some fortification.

[pbmax]

Let's look at it this way:

Packers pick comes up and Ragland plus 2 D lineman (5 tech DE and a 3 tech DT) with pass rush are available.

Which way does Ted go?

[Patler]

Would you be surprised if the first two picks were d-linemen?

No, especially not after last year.

[ThunderDan]

Let's look at it this way:

Packers pick comes up and Ragland plus 2 D lineman (5 tech DE and a 3 tech DT) with pass rush are available.

Which way does Ted go?
Ragland.

[pbmax]

Ragland.

I agree with this. Especially with a deep D line draft where a prospect will be available later. I think ILB would be at the top of the board if they listed them that way, but the draft will likely yield a D lineman.

[Carolina_Packer]

It'll be interesting to see if it's Ragland or some other D-lineman. If it is Ragland, here is some more info to whet your appetite.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/film-study-can-alabama-lb-reggie-ragland-get-anymore-freakish/

There's a video of him covering Hunter Henry.

[mraynrand]

It'll be interesting to see if it's Ragland or some other D-lineman. If it is Ragland, here is some more info to whet your appetite.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/film-study-can-alabama-lb-reggie-ragland-get-anymore-freakish/

There's a video of him covering Hunter Henry.

Good thing it was just one play. But that was chosen as a highlight? He was late, the pass was under-thrown, he never turned his head, and got PI called. Other than that, he looked great! :lol:

[Pugger]

Let's look at it this way:

Packers pick comes up and Ragland plus 2 D lineman (5 tech DE and a 3 tech DT) with pass rush are available.

Which way does Ted go?

Hunter Henry. ;-) :lol:

[George Cumby]

Hunter Henry. ;-) :lol:

OffensiveTackle.

[Patler]

Good thing it was just one play. But that was chosen as a highlight? He was late, the pass was under-thrown, he never turned his head, and got PI called. Other than that, he looked great! :lol:

So, he's already well-versed in the Packers' defensive scheme for linebackers?

[pbmax]

So, he's already well-versed in the Packers' defensive scheme for linebackers?

Or the Jarret Bush role.

[pbmax]

Bob's anonymous scout reporting for his draft guide is taking a beating on the Internets.

Mike Renner @PFF_Mike
Possibly the dumbest anon scout quote of the draft season

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cg_F9sZWYAUmz5f.jpg:large

[Joemailman]

Let's look at it this way:

Packers pick comes up and Ragland plus 2 D lineman (5 tech DE and a 3 tech DT) with pass rush are available.

Which way does Ted go?

Reggie Ragland/Austin Johnson

OR

Andrew Billings/Deion Jones?

I like the former.

[wist43]

Reggie Ragland/Austin Johnson

OR

Andrew Billings/Deion Jones?

I like the former.

Billings/Jones... Billings is a beast in the middle of the line, and he has some good movement skills. Jones would bring us desperately needed speed and coverage ability on the 2nd level.

Billings/Jones has been my hoped for first 2 rounds for a few weeks now... although there are a lot of players I like in either spot, I would love to see those 2 guys in green and gold.

[Bretsky]

It'll be interesting to see if it's Ragland or some other D-lineman. If it is Ragland, here is some more info to whet your appetite.

http://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/alabama-football/film-study-can-alabama-lb-reggie-ragland-get-anymore-freakish/

There's a video of him covering Hunter Henry.


The uncoverable; poor Ragland never had a chance ! :)))

[wist43]

I like Ragland better than any ILB we currently have, sans Matthews (and I do consider Matthews an ILB). That said, I think he's more of a 2-down ILB, and would have to be protected if he were given nickel duties. He would certainly be coming off the field in the dime.

Which is why I prefer Jones in the 2nd, over Ragland in the 1st... Jones can be an every-down LB.

Like I said in the earlier post, would love to see Billings/Jones come to Green Bay 1/2.

[Carolina_Packer]

Billings/Jones... Billings is a beast in the middle of the line, and he has some good movement skills. Jones would bring us desperately needed speed and coverage ability on the 2nd level.

Billings/Jones has been my hoped for first 2 rounds for a few weeks now... although there are a lot of players I like in either spot, I would love to see those 2 guys in green and gold.

+1 A lot of fans were scratching their head about the offense last year. I think that was an anamoly. The defense was promising last year, but they have not been consistently good like the offense has been, and need to keep building the foundation, and Billings and Jones do just that. My only concern is that neither player will be available when the Packers pick in the first and second rounds.

[Bretsky]

I like Ragland better than any ILB we currently have, sans Matthews (and I do consider Matthews an ILB). That said, I think he's more of a 2-down ILB, and would have to be protected if he were given nickel duties. He would certainly be coming off the field in the dime.

Which is why I prefer Jones in the 2nd, over Ragland in the 1st... Jones can be an every-down LB.

Like I said in the earlier post, would love to see Billings/Jones come to Green Bay 1/2.


STOP this Wist !! You know by saying this you are laying down a curse and it's an absolutely guarantee it won't happen :))))

[3irty1]

I have a feeling Kwiatkoski from WV is higher on Ted's board than other GM's. Seems like his kind of guy. Similar to Jones in that he's also that 3-down type being a former safety and having experience in WV's perpetual nickle D. He's significantly bigger than Jones though and despite the size tested better in the SS and 3C. To my eye he's got better instincts but that might just be more experience. He doesn't have as much pop in his hits as Jones but he does have that Brady Poppinga kamikaze style going for him.

If you believe the internet he might even be available in the part of the draft where we have 3 draft picks.

[Fritz]

You know if Ted picks that guy and he screws up, the first thing that'll happen on this board is that someone will call him "Tw@!kowski."

[run pMc]

I have a feeling Kwiatkoski from WV is higher on Ted's board than other GM's. Seems like his kind of guy. Similar to Jones in that he's also that 3-down type being a former safety and having experience in WV's perpetual nickle D. He's significantly bigger than Jones though and despite the size tested better in the SS and 3C. To my eye he's got better instincts but that might just be more experience. He doesn't have as much pop in his hits as Jones but he does have that Brady Poppinga kamikaze style going for him.

If you believe the internet he might even be available in the part of the draft where we have 3 draft picks.

This wouldn't shock me, and I'd be cool with the pick.
I don't know that TT will invest a high pick in an ILB....IMO he's more likely to spend mid-round picks on guys like this and go for DL/OL/OLB with his higher picks. I wouldn't complain if they took Ragland, but I don't think he's a 3 down backer and many teams are reluctant to use high picks on players who have to come off the field.

[mraynrand]

Or the Jarret Bush role.

Nobody ever worked as hard and was as clueless in the secondary as Jarrett Bush.

[ThunderDan]

Nobody ever worked as hard and was as clueless in the secondary as Jarrett Bush.

Yup, and that cluelessness saved us a Super Bowl win.

[mraynrand]

Yup, and that cluelessness saved us a Super Bowl win.

Isn't that awesome? His greatest screwup was his greatest play!

[ThunderDan]

Isn't that awesome? His greatest screwup was his greatest play!

I don't know. Not falling on the ball in the 2007 NFC Championship game was his greatest screwup in my mind.

[pbmax]

Just think how good Bush would be if you could have given him an earpiece to have a coach yell "turn for the ball!" at the right time.