A review of the Clark, Spriggs and Fackrell picks

[RashanGary]

I've spent about a decade listening to and deciphering Ted Thompson's words on players after the draft. When he really, really likes a player he'll talk sort of matter of factly about what he does on the field. "He always blocks his guy." is something he said about Sitton and an example of Ted really loving a guys game tape. So here are my impressions of the first three picks.



Kenny Clark
The most glowing endorsement I've ever heard from Ted Thompson was the "he always blocks his guy" comment on Josh Sitton 8 years ago. TT didn't go that far with this guy, but I definitely get a better feel for TT's confidence in the Clark game tape vs the Sherrod and Perry game tape of years past. "He's always played the run well" and "He showed he can rush the passer last year" are the two comments I like most about Clark. TT really does speak generally, but when he says a DL can stop the run and rush the passer, those are the sort of things I consider to be strong endorsements by TT. The other comments were about Clark being big and strong and athletic. My overall impression of the Clark pick is that he's a safe bet to play good football, a good character guy and a high upside athlete. I like the pick all of the way around.

Jason Spriggs
TT said very little about this guys ability to block. He mostly talked about his size and athletic ability. He's a good person, a hard worker, plays with some nastiness, size/athletic ability are off the charts. It's almost like this guy has everything except a knack for making the play. This reminds me of the Sherrod pick. Obviously the injury played into that, but Sherrod was sketchy from play one in Green Bay. TJ Lang was a guy who had to grow into the job a little. Jordy Nelson is another. I'm not saying this guy is a bust, but I don't get that rock solid, he's got "it" feeling that I get with some other picks. I'm guessing 50/50 boom bust with this guy. I'm hoping for the best, but I don't expect Spriggs to be able to play right away and I won't expect it until I see it start showing up. I don't love the pick, but I understand it. Big guys are hard to find.

Kyler Fackrell
TT said he liked his ability to play in space and rush the passer. That's pass defense. He also likes his athletic ability and character. Honestly, Fackrell got a stronger game tape endorsement than Spriggs from TT IMO, even if not complete. Listening to TT, I think Spriggs has higher upside and is obviously the more rare body type, but I think Fackrell has a better chance of contributing. In a pass happy, nickle defense NFL, the areas where TT says Fackrell excels are the areas that matter most. Straight across the board, he gets after it on pass defense. My impression is that Fackrell is likely to be a good pass defender and has potential to be an every down player. I like the pick.

[3irty1]

I'd hope Fackrell is expected to contribute right away seeing as how he's almost 25. That's a pretty quick expiration date for a project. Good reads JH.

[Patler]

Spriggs presents an unusual situation by which to read TT. I think you have to look beyond TT's words.

To move just nine spots, from #57 to #48, TT gave up two extra picks. He gave #57, #125 & #248 and received only #48 in return. A 3-for-1 deal had to be difficult for a guy who clearly likes to maximize his draft opportunities. Clearly, he attached a premium on Spriggs above the next best alternatives that he might see nine spots later. When he traded up to pick Matthews, he gave away three picks, but received two in return, a 3-for-2 deal.

In this case, I think TT's actions speak louder than his words.

[mraynrand]

The #7 almost doesn't matter, because the Packers focus a lot on rookie FA signings

[RashanGary]

Spriggs presents an unusual situation by which to read TT. I think you have to look beyond TT's words.

To move just nine spots, from #57 to #48, TT gave up two extra picks. He gave #57, #125 & #248 and received only #48 in return. A 3-for-1 deal had to be difficult for a guy who clearly likes to maximize his draft opportunities. Clearly, he attached a premium on Spriggs above the next best alternatives that he might see nine spots later. When he traded up to pick Matthews, he gave away three picks, but received two in return, a 3-for-2 deal.

In this case, I think TT's actions speak louder than his words.

We've both been following these TT lead Packers for a while. I still think Ted is taking a, "potential" flyer here. I hope I'm wrong. I could see either of our impressions being correct. I still lean toward mine, but it's more intuition than logic so I understand arguments both ways or other ways.

[Patler]

The #7 almost doesn't matter, because the Packers focus a lot on rookie FA signings

I agree only partly. A 7th round pick has small value because it is the bottom of the barrel, but its value is actually enhanced by their focus on FA signings. A 7th round pick has a significant value in combination with the deep evaluations done for their focus on FA signings because it ensures that they will get a player they like. They can't be assured that they will be able to sign a targeted FA. He might chose to sign with someone else. They can make him come to GB by drafting him with a 7th round pick.

For that reason I have always felt a 7th round pick might mean more to TT and a couple others than it does to some.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Good analysis as usual JH.

My bottom-line regarding these three picks boils down to:

Clark -- Greatest potential of D-linemen available, at his best two or three years down the road. (I like his ability to bat down passes. That's a talent your born with.)

Spriggs -- Best of the NFL-able OLTs left and stays healthy (knock on wood!!)

Fackrell -- Safest choice among available, big school OLB pass rushers (guaranteed to outperform Jaylon Smith in 2016)

[Patler]

We've both been following these TT lead Packers for a while. I still think Ted is taking a, "potential" flyer here. I hope I'm wrong. I could see either of our impressions being correct. I still lean toward mine, but it's more intuition than logic so I understand arguments both ways or other ways.

I think it is a potential pick too, but I think TT is much more impressed with Spriggs' potential than he was with Sherrod's, for example. He did a lot so that Spriggs wouldn't get away. Sherrod seemed like a pick that was made because he had to pick someone, they needed OL depth and Sherrod had very good size and some athletic ability.

Unlike your comment in the first post, for me the pick of Spriggs does not remind me of Sherrod at all. Of course, that doesn't mean that it will turn out any better.

[Iron Mike]

I think it is a potential pick too, but I think TT is much more impressed with Spriggs' potential than he was with Sherrod's, for example. He did a lot so that Spriggs wouldn't get away. Sherrod seemed like a pick that was made because he had to pick someone, they needed OL depth and Sherrod had very good size and some athletic ability.

Unlike your comment in the first post, for me the pick of Spriggs does not remind me of Sherrod at all. Of course, that doesn't mean that it will turn out any better.

You also have to like the fact that TT jumped ahead of the Bears to grab a guy they OBVIOUSLY targeted.....

[Patler]

Fackrell -- Safest choice among available, big school OLB pass rushers (guaranteed to outperform Jaylon Smith in 2016)

Darn it, Maxie. Now you have jinxed him for sure! Do you not recall the rookie years of Aaron Taylor, Mike Flanagan and JC Tretter? Why would you make such a guarantee? :x

[pbmax]

JH, where did you get the quotes? Gutenkisk or Lutefisk or Gutenberg was at the PC after the Spriggs pick. Ted came down again after grabbing Fackrell.

[George Cumby]

Good stuff, JH.

Like you, I enjoy trying to decipher Ted's speech and his nonverbals. I disagree with your analysis only in that Teds most telling moment was when he first picked Nelson. He positively looked like the cat who ate the canary on that one. As it turns out, rightfully so.

[King Friday]

Clark seems like a reasonable choice, although I always have my doubts regarding DL prospects from the Pac 12. He does appear to have a strong motor, which is the biggest plus in his column. Big lazy guys never amount to anything. It is also nice to know that he is very young and probably has considerable opportunity to gain strength and size over the next 2 years. I really couldn't see anyone left at that point who offered more impact to our roster than Clark did.

The Spriggs kid to me was a good pick. He's green...he has a lot to learn...but he has the athleticism and size to become a very good player if he applies himself. Given the Packers current situation, the kid should have some time to learn...and he likely will have the opportunity to apply himself at points during the season due to the rate our OL guys get dinged up. The fact that Ted moved up to get him probably isn't an indication that Spriggs is a budding superstar, but rather that Thompson viewed the gap between him and any of the guys on the next tier as extremely significant. Spriggs has physical ability that typically gets 1st round grades, but this draft was really deep for the guys in the trenches on both sides of the ball and it allowed a kid like Spriggs to still be around. Thompson correctly gauged that he needed to go up to grab him and paid the price necessary to do so.

Fackrell doesn't really blow up my skirt. To me, this seems like a real grasp at trying to find someone capable of making a few plays in against the pass from the LB position. His athleticism seems sub-par to me for a guy who will rush the passer as an OLB. It would appear his best attributes suggest he might be better suited in coverage. He'll probably be a very capable special team player as well...which probably boosts him quite a bit in the eye of the Packer brass.

[George Cumby]

What I read about Spriggs is he has a really good kick step. Remember who else had a good KS coming out of college? Clifton.

[texaspackerbacker]

After reading about Clark, I got over at least some of my negativity about going interior D Line in the first round. He has some potential and athleticism, and I like that "swat" ability. He seems a lot more like Daniels than like Raji.

I like the fact that some are comparing Spriggs to Sherrod. The guy seems capable of getting even bigger, and getting back to huge O Linemen is something the Packers needed to do IMO.

My first thought about Fackrell was big and slow - another damn elephant, but reading about him, it seems he ain't like that. I wanted a future Clay Matthews, and there's at least some chance this guy is it.

So I guess I'm guardedly satisfied up to now.

[pbmax]

Other Ted comments on Spriggs:

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 12h12 hours ago
Thompson on Jason Spriggs trade: "We really wanted to make him a Packer." #PackersDraft

Rob Demovsky
Packers GM Ted Thompson explained why he traded up in the second round to take Jason Spriggs. "It might have been a little conservative on my part, but I'd rather have him than risk losing him."


Ted's PC after 3rd round, discussing Fackrell and Spriggs.

http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Thompson-on-Day-2-Its-a-tricky-business/e20a8c03-0efe-4579-ae36-74cf627eb0b8

[Maxie the Taxi]

Darn it, Maxie. Now you have jinxed him for sure! Do you not recall the rookie years of Aaron Taylor, Mike Flanagan and JC Tretter? Why would you make such a guarantee? :x
You left off the "knock on wood" part!! That ALWAYS works...knock on wood!

[yetisnowman]

I'd hope Fackrell is expected to contribute right away seeing as how he's almost 25. That's a pretty quick expiration date for a project. Good reads JH.

If only there was a proven NFL linebacker around the same age we could have targeted in free agency.....

[Fritz]

...who didn't cost 6 mill a year...

[RashanGary]

JH, where did you get the quotes? Gutenkisk or Lutefisk or Gutenberg was at the PC after the Spriggs pick. Ted came down again after grabbing Fackrell.

Tt talked about Clark after day 1 and spriggs and the lb after day two. I listened and watched his body language, and formed impressions that can be argued and disagreed with, but impressions none the less. That's what I shared. Opinion. I've been getting more consistently right with my opinions over the years, not always, but more often. It's still an opinion though and certainly up for debate.

[RashanGary]

Good stuff, JH.

Like you, I enjoy trying to decipher Ted's speech and his nonverbals. I disagree with your analysis only in that Teds most telling moment was when he first picked Nelson. He positively looked like the cat who ate the canary on that one. As it turns out, rightfully so.

Sometimes I miss things. But yes, those are the types of things that can be gleaned if a person wants to pay attention to context! Nice observation, and i trust it!

[RashanGary]

Pb, I would recommend listening to the pc and watching yourself, not reading. So much gets lost in the translation to written word.

[pbmax]

Yeah, I did listen to the PC last night on the radio and today on their website. He doesn't say anything specific about his playing. You've got me spooked.

[RashanGary]

That's it. He says nothing about how spriggs plays. Said was tough, said was athletic, said wanted to be good. Said nothing about actually being good. It's what he didn't say that concerns me.

[Bretsky]

Billings or Adams would be nice

[yetisnowman]

...who didn't cost 6 mill a year...

Let's just keep saving and drafting and developing until our HOF quarterback is a shadow of himself.
I'll maintain that our approach via the draft and free agency needs to be much more aggressive over the next few years. We pay Clay more than double what Trevathan is being paid per year, and the contract was a year longer. For whatever reason money doesn't matter, as long as TT drafted the player getting paid.

[mraynrand]

Let's just keep saving and drafting and developing until our HOF quarterback is a shadow of himself.
I'll maintain that our approach via the draft and free agency needs to be much more aggressive over the next few years. We pay Clay more than double what Trevathan is being paid per year, and the contract was a year longer. For whatever reason money doesn't matter, as long as TT drafted the player getting paid.

I don't think the Trevathan issue was so much about money - I think it was about whether they liked 'em or not.

[Bretsky]

another LB; nice.

[Bretsky]

How about another DT, TE, or scatback RB next ??

[RashanGary]

I think you're in the wrong thread, brah!

[wootah]

Wasn't TT also giving pretty high praise to RB Alex Green when they drafted him? I guess we have to wait and see when the pads come on, but stil an interesting observation about Spriggs indeed.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2016/04/29/ted-thompson-surprises-packers-fans-again/83662644/

Ted Thompson surprises Packers fans again

BY: Richard Ryman, USA TODAY NETWORK-Wisconsin 1:58 a.m. EDT April 29, 2016

[RashanGary]

Wasn't TT also giving pretty high praise to RB Alex Green when they drafted him? I guess we have to wait and see when the pads come on, but stil an interesting observation about Spriggs indeed.

He said he was, "the man."

And apparently TT is wrong sometimes too :) But I've noticed a trend that when the Packers take guys that TT talks about how good they are at football, they usually end up being good at playing football. With some exceptions. In 10 years it's the closest thing to a reliable way to judge a draft after the draft as I've come up with.

[mraynrand]

I think you're in the wrong thread, brah!

we use 'bruh' here


https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/reddit-brah-bruh.png?w=575&h=851

[RashanGary]

I stand corrected!

[mraynrand]

I stand corrected!

:lol:

[3irty1]

If only there was a proven NFL linebacker around the same age we could have targeted in free agency.....

If we want chase and tackle jags like the Broncos won a superbowl with then we need look no further than our own roster.

[MadScientist]

JSO anonymous scout review.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/what-scouts-are-saying-b99715036z1-377539121.html

Consensus - Clark is solid, Fackrell may be good, or may have lost a critical step from the knee injury. Spriggs - yikes, a looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane type

TT must have loved Spriggs a the Senior Bowl, because that analysis does not give me hope for this pick being anything other than TT's worst 2nd rounder since Brohm, and he traded up to get him as well.

I like Clark, am dubious about Fackrell, and hate the Spriggs pick, especially with the trade factored in.

[pbmax]

My concern is if Justin and Mad Scientists post are correct, he might have been a reach for the last OT with a Round 1-2 grade. Would match his comment about draft board moving away from them.

However, if they really had a Round 1 grade on him, then they must have though he would develop. We'll see.

[pbmax]

Jason Wilde was just on the radio and he said from several sources (and named Eliot Wolf) that the Packers DID have a first round grade on Spriggs, which was why Ted was willing to jump up given the current roster.

They did not think he was going to last. So at least from a scouting perspective, he was not a reach for the last Tackle of value worthy of a second round selection.

[Patler]

JSO anonymous scout review.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/what-scouts-are-saying-b99715036z1-377539121.html

Consensus - Clark is solid, Fackrell may be good, or may have lost a critical step from the knee injury. Spriggs - yikes, a looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane type

TT must have loved Spriggs a the Senior Bowl, because that analysis does not give me hope for this pick being anything other than TT's worst 2nd rounder since Brohm, and he traded up to get him as well.

I like Clark, am dubious about Fackrell, and hate the Spriggs pick, especially with the trade factored in.

I don't understand your concern. I think your conclusion about the consensus on Spriggs is wrong if based it on the comments in the JSO article.

It reads as if they were asked if he was a first rounder and better than the others. If you sort through the chaff, of 12 scouts, three do not seem to like him at all, the others have criticisms, but think late first or early second would have been good places to take him and that he has a shot to be a left tackle.

No, not everyone loves him, but he seems OK for where he was taken.

[RashanGary]

I don't understand your concern. I think your conclusion about the consensus on Spriggs is wrong if based it on the comments in the JSO article.

It reads as if they were asked if he was a first rounder and better than the others. If you sort through the chaff, of 12 scouts, three do not seem to like him at all, the others have criticisms, but think late first or early second would have been good places to take him and that he has a shot to be a left tackle.

No, not everyone loves him, but he seems OK for where he was taken.

You know, I agree. It sounds like he's a great athlete and an alright player based on those scouts. I don't get a great feel for the pick, but he could develop into a good player. Good is alright.

[woodbuck27]

Tt talked about Clark after day 1 and spriggs and the lb after day two. I listened and watched his body language, and formed impressions that can be argued and disagreed with, but impressions none the less. That's what I shared. Opinion. I've been getting more consistently right with my opinions over the years, not always, but more often. It's still an opinion though and certainly up for debate.

JH...You made Google:

A review of the Clark, Spriggs and Fackrell picks - PackerRats.com

packerrats.com › Forum › Big Cheese › Green Bay Packers

2 days ago - 20 posts - ‎12 authors

We've both been following these TT lead Packers for a while. I still think Ted is .....

http://www.packers.com/media-center/...6-74cf627eb0b8.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000646037/article/ten-most-underrated-offensive-prospects-in-2016-nfl-draft

Ten most underrated offensive prospects in 2016 NFL Draft

By Gil Brandt ... NFL Media senior analyst

Published: March 21, 2016 at 01:45 p.m. Updated: March 22, 2016 at 12:27 p.m.

999+ Likes | 34 Comments

Jason Spriggs, OT, Indiana:

Spriggs (6-5 5/8, 301, 4.85) is athletically special, and nowhere was that more apparent than at the NFL Scouting Combine, where he was the top prospect at his position in four events. He's also very strong (31 bench reps) and light on his feet.

He has the ability to play in the NFL for a long time.


This video contains coverage on Spriggs and Fackrell both impressive specimens (the Packers need to get tougher....mean !):

http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Packers_Draft_Day_2_Recap/6b03ca72-c593-4cba-be83-cadf5e389af9

[Carolina_Packer]

He said he was, "the man."

And apparently TT is wrong sometimes too :) But I've noticed a trend that when the Packers take guys that TT talks about how good they are at football, they usually end up being good at playing football. With some exceptions. In 10 years it's the closest thing to a reliable way to judge a draft after the draft as I've come up with.

Good post, good discussion. I am not a member of the Alex Green fan club, but in fairness, TT drafted him before he hurt his knee. Was he going to become something special? Probably not. The knee injury, perhaps his own resolve or ability after the injury is what sapped Alex Green's career.

[Fritz]

I don't think Alex Green showed too much before he got hurt. I think TT just whiffed on that one.

[Joemailman]

I don't think Alex Green showed too much before he got hurt. I think TT just whiffed on that one.

Green played in a spread offense at Hawaii. TT made the gamble, based partly on Green's performance at the Senior Bowl, that he could make the transition to a pro-style offense. He couldn't.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/article-draft/article-1/Packers-wanted-big-guys-and-got-big-guys/b6615bbb-d3d2-44a6-8be7-94ca4078a15d?campaign=email_160502&j=76371614&e=woodbuck27@yahoo.ca&l=38373626_HTML&u=686707208&mid=96970&jb=0

Packers wanted big guys and got big guys

Posted Apr 30, 2016

By: Mike Spofford packers.com senior writer @MikeSpofford

Four of seven draft picks are linemen, five of seven from out west

Comment woodbuck27:

I believe this belongs here with JH's fine thread. Thanks JH for your analysis and insite into the nuances of Ted Thompson. He personally drives me up the wall at times and suddenly I'm all for him. LOL :-)

If you havn't as yet seen the TT Presser following the 2016 Draft ... here it is:

I was impressed with how TT responded in this press conference. I felt he was pleased and open (revealing) in his responses. I liked how he opened showing his appreciation for all the Packer personnel that assist in helping to ensure a drafts success. If you stick with this interview you'll hear TT talk about the importance of the area scouts.