TT has quietly put together a very strong off season

[Patler]

I think TT has put together what may turn out to be one of his most effective off seasons. I think the following are significant individually, but in combination are impressive:

- It all started with the signing of Mike Daniels to an extension. This was expected, as it was consistent with the way TT does business, yet it was a significant item to take care of.

- Along the same lines as the Daniels extension, I assumed Mason Crosby would be re-signed; but, again, until it is done, it isn't a certainty.

- Same activities, but still significant, he was able to retain depth strength that existed by re-signing Starks, Taylor, Guion and Perry. I'm not trying to inflate their value, but from a roster standpoint they were solid members. Re-signing each avoiding opening new holes in the roster.

- He was thrown a curve by the unexpected early retirement of B.J. Raji. This enhanced the importance of having retained Guion. TT further dealt with this unexpected situation by drafting what many say is a plug-and-play replacement for Raji.

- TE was a glaring deficiency on offense in 2015. TT addressed this through free agency, by signing a guy who physically and athletically is nearly a duplicate of Jermichael Finley.

- Perhaps the next most significant roster deficiency on offense in 2015 was OL depth generally and OT depth specifically. Two solid potential improvements were brought in through the draft, which is significant not only for depth in 2016 but potentially also for flexibility in dealing with their own free agents in 2017.

- Switching back to the defensive side of the ball, the glaring need that everyone wants to talk about is MLB. For the second year in a row, he used a 4th round draft pick to address this need. That means 2 of his last 8 top draft picks have been middle linebackers. You can quibble with issues of using a 1st round pick for a linebacker rather than a DT this year, or a corner last year, but those were also positions of need as well. You can't argue that TT is ignoring the problem, because 4th round draft picks are not insignificant. You need only to look at the Packers O-line to see that. Besides, the more I read about Martinez, the more it seems that he will be the best of their MLBs in passing situations. Maybe not as good as they want to get, but improvement at least.

- They need to get younger and deeper at OLB. TT brought in a well-regarded candidate for the position.

- They need to get better and deeper at DE. TT brought in a well regarded candidate for that position as well.

- It was said they needed to add a deep threat at WR. TT brought in a reasonable candidate for that, once you accept that not every draft pick can be a first round pick, and for every first round pick there is a 7th round pick, too (and a 6th, 5th, 4th, etc.). The kid may have deficiencies, but he does not lack speed, and it appears he can contribute immediately as a return man if needed.

- Each draft pick this year addressed a need that I think all would agree existed. None was purely a "luxury" pick, nor did one pick really duplicate another. I would argue that the need at OT and free agency looming in 2017 more than justifies the necessity of drafting two O-lineman.

- Finally, he has done it all while retaining a solid salary cap position that will give him flexibility in dealing with a significant FA group in the next year.


I think TT has addressed every apparent need. Whether or not he has done so successfully remains to be seen. At least he has not simply maintained the status quo, nor has he allowed deterioration at any position.

[Upnorth]

I tend to agree with you Patler, especially Re Guion and the TE.
One other comment I'm going home leave is I have changed my opinion on Clark. He had no one around him and he still amped up his production when given the opportunity. If he played out his last year I believe he would have moved into the top half or even top 10 of the draft. He will likely be an improvement on Raji.

[texaspackerbacker]

Maybe. IF things turn out with Jared Cook, and If at least a little bit of good comes from the draft, then yeah, Thompson did all right. I tend to be for his not going all in on free agency, although he does carry it to the extreme.

Just having Raji LEAVE is a big plus. Keeping Guion for cheap tells me maybe they will restrict the "clod" factor to goal line and short yardage situations - I hope.

Extending Daniels and retaining the others of our own was typical and generally good.

Like I have said about Thompson for years, the good is obvious - a stable team with a winning record; The bad is he really doesn't maximize things in terms of a supporting cast for the still greatest QB on the face of the earth.

[Patler]

Tex;
The strength of this off season performance is from the fact that he addressed each and every concern with a legitimate POTENTIAL solution. Ultimately success matters, but Jared Cook was an exceptional response to the TE problem. Maybe it will work, maybe not, but the attempt was very good.

It's funny, before free agency opened, there seemed to be a very strong sentiment on here for TT to go out and spend a ton of money on getting Jared Cook signed. Then, when TT plays conservatively and gets Cook relatively cheaply, now everyone is unimpressed. Everyone seemed to want Cook,....until they actually got him. Now, suddenly, it was no big deal to get him.

[SMBASS]

Tex;
Everyone seemed to want Cook,....until they actually got him. Now, suddenly, it was no big deal to get him.

I've noticed that too Patler. Personally I'm excited to see what Cook can do with a good QB throwing him the ball for the first time in his career. He's been catching passes from a lot of big time suck up to this point. If he stays healthy and develops a good relationship with AR I think he's going to open up things for our O more than people realize. I'm much happier with the relatively inexpensive signing of Cook than reaching for a TE from a fairly poor draft class.

[Upnorth]

One thing I still don't understand is why do so many pile on Raji as if he is a bust? Which 5 NT were better than him? His position on the D has about as much glory potential as a G. Very few NT are famous.

[gbgary]

good assessment! the whole thing rides on the nelson/montgomery comebacks. if they're substandard it's going to be another frustrating season.

[3irty1]

Ted has done a good job of righting the ship. Hopefully the law of averages rights it more.

[pittstang5]

I'm still in shock over this draft. Going in - I figured we should pick up, at the very least, 2 O-lineman, 2 D-lineman and an ILB. Five players and TT had 8 picks to start? How TT usually drafts, I hoped for two out of the those five. Total mind blown when we kept taking players at positions in need.

I don't see any Super-Duper Stars...there's no WOW factor with these picks and quite honestly, I don't think we needed a WOW factor pick. We need solid players to create solid depth and I think TT has accomplished that.

[Patler]

Face it, it is nearly impossible to get a player with present "wow" factor at the bottom of the first round anyway. It is even more difficult when you are drafting linemen.

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex;
The strength of this off season performance is from the fact that he addressed each and every concern with a legitimate POTENTIAL solution. Ultimately success matters, but Jared Cook was an exceptional response to the TE problem. Maybe it will work, maybe not, but the attempt was very good.

It's funny, before free agency opened, there seemed to be a very strong sentiment on here for TT to go out and spend a ton of money on getting Jared Cook signed. Then, when TT plays conservatively and gets Cook relatively cheaply, now everyone is unimpressed. Everyone seemed to want Cook,....until they actually got him. Now, suddenly, it was no big deal to get him.

I don't disagree, Patler, about getting Cook for a relatively low amount etc. Just the same, giving credit for attempts is kinda like a custom fantasy football league where they give points for carries and pass attempts - unrealistic. I see what you're saying, though. Ultimately, there is a large element of luck involved as to whether what it seems like should happen actually does happen. There actually are quite a few "wow factor" players drafted late first round and lower, even a lot lower. That's where luck comes in - either that or damn good insight, and in recent years, I haven't seen much of that from Ted.

As for Raji, I stand by every negative thing I ever said about him - drafted that high/so much expectations, and then get pushed around and handled as easily as he did, overall, he was pretty pathetic.

[Pugger]

One thing I still don't understand is why do so many pile on Raji as if he is a bust? Which 5 NT were better than him? His position on the D has about as much glory potential as a G. Very few NT are famous.

Raji was a good nose. He struggled when they tried to put him out on the end.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Two thoughts:

1) I think he picked position of needs without reaching at those positions. Each guy was reasonably assessed to go where or before they were picked.
2) I think TT understood the weakness and strength of the draft. By signing a free agent at a position that was weak in the draft (TE) with a reasonable alternative (Cook), he didn't have to reach for a player ahead of where his value lied. By not signing a free agent at a position that was strong in the draft (DT), he got a reasonable alternative (Clark) without affecting the long-term salary cap situation of the team.

[Patler]

Two thoughts:

1) I think he picked position of needs without reaching at those positions. Each guy was reasonably assessed to go where or before they were picked.
2) I think TT understood the weakness and strength of the draft. By signing a free agent at a position that was weak in the draft (TE) with a reasonable alternative (Cook), he didn't have to reach for a player ahead of where his value lied. By not signing a free agent at a position that was strong in the draft (DT), he got a reasonable alternative (Clark) without affecting the long-term salary cap situation of the team.

Exactly, he used ALL options open to him:

- free agency as described above;
- the draft without reaching to meet a need; and
- a trade to acquire a more desired player than he might otherwise have had available to him.

[Rutnstrut]

You can no more proclaim he had a strong off season any more than others can that he didn't. We are in wait and see mode. Although I am cautiously optimistic.

[Joemailman]

The German dude the Vikes took will be a better player than Ted's latest WR bust.


You can no more proclaim he had a strong off season any more than others can that he didn't. We are in wait and see mode. Although I am cautiously optimistic.

You can no more claim that the German dude will be a better player than Davis than others including me can say Davis will be better. We are in wait and see mode. Although I an cautiously optimistic.

[Patler]

You can no more proclaim he had a strong off season any more than others can that he didn't. We are in wait and see mode. Although I am cautiously optimistic.

You are completely wrong in saying that I can't, and my proof is that I already have! :-)

Too many of you are hung up on results at this time. Evaluating the off season in May is a matter of assessing the efforts made; and in that regard he has had a great off season so far. As I said in my original post, it remains to be seen if he was successful, but I think you will agree that the effort has been made.

[NewsBruin]

Raji was a good nose. He struggled when they tried to put him out on the end.

I should write this in a BJ Raji career post-mortem thread, instead of here.

I thought the story on him was that we got a stocky, short-armed, athletic one-gapper and plugged him into being a doubled-every-snap two-gapper. The move outside was supposed to make him disruptive, but tackles held off his t-rex arms with their yardsticks. Is that remotely right?

[woodbuck27]

I tend to agree with you Patler, especially Re Guion and the TE.
One other comment I'm going home leave is I have changed my opinion on Clark. He had no one around him and he still amped up his production when given the opportunity. If he played out his last year I believe he would have moved into the top half or even top 10 of the draft. He will likely be an improvement on Raji.

BJ Raji looked done to me. It might be after his Rookie season but Clark will be a strong addition.

[woodbuck27]

That's well summed up Patler.

TT has covered a lot.

[Bretsky]

I agree TT has did a stellar job in the offseason. Kudos for locking up Cook as well as finding fair values in the draft to fit out needs.

I still view one weakness but I've been asking for this for a couple yrs so apparently TT and MM do not agree

I still want a scat back who can create mismatches in the passing game. Darren Sproles/James White....etc...kind of guy. NE always has 1 or 2 of them. We have never had one so my assumption is we don't value that

[SMBASS]

I agree that I'd like to have a back like that as well Bretsky. I may be off but didn't we try to find someone along those lines with Alex Green, Jonathon Franklin, and maybe a couple of other lesser guys. (Dujuan Harris?) It seems as though it's not a big priority for TT/MM for whatever reason but I think we've given it a casual try in the past and just failed with our choices. It would be nice to have someone coming out of the backfield who could create mismatches with linebackers. It seems like the only time we utilize backs in the passing game is on designed screen pass plays since AR rarely dumps passes off to the backs when he's in trouble anyway.

[Fritz]

Tex;
The strength of this off season performance is from the fact that he addressed each and every concern with a legitimate POTENTIAL solution. Ultimately success matters, but Jared Cook was an exceptional response to the TE problem. Maybe it will work, maybe not, but the attempt was very good.

It's funny, before free agency opened, there seemed to be a very strong sentiment on here for TT to go out and spend a ton of money on getting Jared Cook signed. Then, when TT plays conservatively and gets Cook relatively cheaply, now everyone is unimpressed. Everyone seemed to want Cook,....until they actually got him. Now, suddenly, it was no big deal to get him.


This just proves we're typical guys. We want the hot chick until she says "yes."

[texaspackerbacker]

I should write this in a BJ Raji career post-mortem thread, instead of here.

I thought the story on him was that we got a stocky, short-armed, athletic one-gapper and plugged him into being a doubled-every-snap two-gapper. The move outside was supposed to make him disruptive, but tackles held off his t-rex arms with their yardsticks. Is that remotely right?

That's exactly right - that and he didn't show the strength not to get pushed around when he played NT - or anywhere else. You just expect way more from somebody drafted as high in the first round as he was.

Clark is a different kind of player altogether - thankfully. I'm not saying he's J.J. Watt, but with all the outside rushing the Packers do, it will be nice to have some length and athleticism and "swat" ability in the middle, and at the same time, he hopefully is big and tough enough to stop the run when needed to do so.

Regarding scatback 3rd down RBs, I think the reason the Packers tend to stay away from them is preference for ability to pass block, and given the porousness of our O Line, that's probably for the best.

[mraynrand]

You can no more proclaim he had a strong off season any more than others can that he didn't. We are in wait and see mode. Although I am cautiously optimistic.

would you feel differently had TT drafted 6 wide receivers?

[Fritz]

I agree TT has did a stellar job in the offseason. Kudos for locking up Cook as well as finding fair values in the draft to fit out needs.

I still view one weakness but I've been asking for this for a couple yrs so apparently TT and MM do not agree

I still want a scat back who can create mismatches in the passing game. Darren Sproles/James White....etc...kind of guy. NE always has 1 or 2 of them. We have never had one so my assumption is we don't value that


Bretsky, I thought of you yesterday when I read about an UDFA the Packers signed - Broderick something-or-other. Holds the school record (Georgia Tech or someplace like that, I think) for the 60 yard dash - weighs about 190, I think he goes 5' 11" or so. That might be your guy. Had injuries the past two years - broken wrist, maybe, then broken leg - but he could be that third down scat back.

What do you think?

[KYPack]

Bretsky, I thought of you yesterday when I read about an UDFA the Packers signed - Broderick something-or-other. Holds the school record (Georgia Tech or someplace like that, I think) for the 60 yard dash - weighs about 190, I think he goes 5' 11" or so. That might be your guy. Had injuries the past two years - broken wrist, maybe, then broken leg - but he could be that third down scat back.

What do you think?

B & Fritz, I agree. Love me a scatback who can run swing routes, screens etc. I think that was the idea with that kid Johnathan Franklin they drafted out of UCLA a few years back. He had a good game vs the Bengals, had some fugly fumbles and bad pass pro. He suffered a career ending injury. I think Stub and TT will look at a scatback, but they are scared of the exposure one of those guys give you in pass pro.

I just wish we'd sign Darren Sproles. The guy come up available every few years for anybody to sign, but he always catches on with somebody else.

Can't we have him just once?

[Zool]

B & Fritz, I agree. Love me a scatback who can run swing routes, screens etc. I think that was the idea with that kid Johnathan Franklin they drafted out of UCLA a few years back. He had a good game vs the Bengals, had some fugly fumbles and bad pass pro. He suffered a career ending injury. I think Stub and TT will look at a scatback, but they are scared of the exposure one of those guys give you in pass pro.

I just wish we'd sign Darren Sproles. The guy come up available every few years for anybody to sign, but he always catches on with somebody else.

Can't we have him just once?

Isn't this what they do with Cobb and Monty out of the backfield?

[vince]

Limited exposure obviously, but Don Jackson (#6 in the video) flashes a bit of scat-back ability... Aggressive runner at minimum...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05N6OrQYFXs