5th Year Options Declined: 2013 Draft Rregrets

[pbmax]

2. Luke Joeckel
6. Barkevious Mingo
7. Jonathan Cooper
9. Dee Milliner
10. Chance Warmack
11. D.J. Hayden
16. EJ Manuel
24. Bjoern Werner (beat rush by cutting him)
26. Datone Jones
28. Sylvester Williams
29. Cordarrelle Patterson

EDIT: Add Jonathan Cooper to the list!

[Guiness]

2. Luke Joeckel
6. Barkevious Mingo
10. Chance Warmack
11. D.J. Hayden
16. EJ Manuel
26. Datone Jones
28. Sylvester Williams
29. Cordarrelle Patterson

Hard to believe Datone has been with the Packers for 3 years. An awful quiet 3 years.

Warmack is only a little surprising. He started from day 1, and has played well. I think the problem is his draft position, as a top 10 pick he'd get franchise LT money. No one pays a guard that, and I think the Titans will resign him, just not for that money.

[3irty1]

I feel for Datone. I think in another scheme he could be Cameron Jordan. The flashes are there and not even that rare. He's just not stout enough to stay on the field every down for us.

I think the Packers thought he'd be able to pack more weight on than he has. Now they're going the other way with him, we'll see how that goes. He should seek out a 4-3 IMO. The guy definitely belongs in the NFL.

[SMBASS]

Just one example of all these talking head, "Draft Experts" being full of shit and why I don't pay any attention to anything they say:

Mike Mayock's Top 100 Draft Prospects for 2013

Player Rank

Luke Joeckel #3
Barkevious Mingo #10
Dee Milliner #16
Chance Warmack #4
D.J. Hayden #14
EJ Manuel #41
Bjoern Werner #26
Datone Jones #27
Sylvester Williams #22
Cordarrelle Patterson #30

Every player except Manual was rated as a first round selection. It doesn't mean that they're all a complete bust but they sure didn't live up to their rated draft position for whatever reason. (Injuries, just not that good, not smart enough, etc., etc.)

I could find lists by 100 more, "experts" that are just as far off or worse than Mayock was. The draft is primarily a crapshoot and this is another reason why people getting their undies in a bundle complaining about players being a, "reach" and being taken too early or being a, "bargain" because they were selected later than their, Draft Grade" is hilarious to me. Let the kids put the damn pads on and play some football first. Who ends up being a football player and who doesn't will sort itself out. This happens every single year without exception.

[SMBASS]

I feel for Datone. I think in another scheme he could be Cameron Jordan. The flashes are there and not even that rare. He's just not stout enough to stay on the field every down for us.

I think the Packers thought he'd be able to pack more weight on than he has. Now they're going the other way with him, we'll see how that goes. He should seek out a 4-3 IMO. The guy definitely belongs in the NFL.

I agree with this assessment regarding Datone 3irty1. I think he was miscast as a DE in a 3-4 defense and barring injuries he'd be better suited playing DE in a 4-3. Being misused is another reason some of these high picks end up not living up to their billing.

[Pugger]

I feel for Datone. I think in another scheme he could be Cameron Jordan. The flashes are there and not even that rare. He's just not stout enough to stay on the field every down for us.

I think the Packers thought he'd be able to pack more weight on than he has. Now they're going the other way with him, we'll see how that goes. He should seek out a 4-3 IMO. The guy definitely belongs in the NFL.

Perhaps if he moves on he'll find a team that suits his skills better in 2017.

Looking at the kids Ted just drafted he will now pick players who actually played the position we want him to in college.

[pbmax]

I dunno. He's not built like a power end 7 tech like Reggie. I have never seen him forecast for a wide 9 tech like Sean Jones.

I thought he first, best position out of college was thought to be a 5 tech in a 3-4.

But I agree, with regular playing time he gets to the QB. Maybe he is a Santana Dotson 3 tech who needs a NT to always absorb the DT.

[Pugger]

It appears there are 12 other first rounders from that draft whose 5th year options have been declined by their respective teams.

[wist43]

I feel for Datone. I think in another scheme he could be Cameron Jordan. The flashes are there and not even that rare. He's just not stout enough to stay on the field every down for us.

I think the Packers thought he'd be able to pack more weight on than he has. Now they're going the other way with him, we'll see how that goes. He should seek out a 4-3 IMO. The guy definitely belongs in the NFL.

So now you're basically agreeing with what I said when we drafted him, i.e. he was never going to be a good fit for a 3-4?? Are you sure you want to align with me on a player?? The other kids in here can get kind of nasty when they're throwing rotten vegetables at me... you could get caught in the crossfire ;)

And for the record, trying Jones at LB is dumber still... wreaks of trying to play Kampman there.

They should have resigned Neal. Losing him is going to hurt.

[Patler]

They should have resigned Neal. Losing him is going to hurt.

I can't help but wonder if teams fear there is substance to the HGH allegations about Neal late last year. GB has shown no apparent interest in him, and interest around the league hasn't been very strong.

[Joemailman]

I can't help but wonder if teams fear there is substance to the HGH allegations about Neal late last year. GB has shown no apparent interest in him, and interest around the league hasn't been very strong.

I think that's exactly it. When that story came out earlier this year, Matthews and Peppers released very strong denials. Neal's comments were more evasive:


“You might as well stop asking me questions,” Neal said. “I mean, I’m sure you saw how pissed off Peyton Manning was about somebody coming out with false accusations. So if you want to piss me off, that’s one thing. But please don’t — if you want to talk about football, let’s talk about that.”

[pbmax]

2. Luke Joeckel
6. Barkevious Mingo
7. Jonathan Cooper
9. Dee Milliner
10. Chance Warmack
11. D.J. Hayden
16. EJ Manuel
17. Jarvis Jones
24. Bjoern Werner (beat rush by cutting him)
26. Datone Jones
28. Sylvester Williams
29. Cordarrelle Patterson
32. Matt Elam

EDIT: Add Jarvis Jones and Matt Elam.

[hoosier]

Just one example of all these talking head, "Draft Experts" being full of shit and why I don't pay any attention to anything they say:

Mike Mayock's Top 100 Draft Prospects for 2013

Player Rank

Luke Joeckel #3
Barkevious Mingo #10
Dee Milliner #16
Chance Warmack #4
D.J. Hayden #14
EJ Manuel #41
Bjoern Werner #26
Datone Jones #27
Sylvester Williams #22
Cordarrelle Patterson #30

Every player except Manual was rated as a first round selection. It doesn't mean that they're all a complete bust but they sure didn't live up to their rated draft position for whatever reason. (Injuries, just not that good, not smart enough, etc., etc.)

I could find lists by 100 more, "experts" that are just as far off or worse than Mayock was. The draft is primarily a crapshoot and this is another reason why people getting their undies in a bundle complaining about players being a, "reach" and being taken too early or being a, "bargain" because they were selected later than their, Draft Grade" is hilarious to me. Let the kids put the damn pads on and play some football first. Who ends up being a football player and who doesn't will sort itself out. This happens every single year without exception.

I have to say, Mayock's ranking was pretty damned close to the actual drafting order. Manuel's ranking is out of whack but that can be explained as a reach by Buffalo.

[3irty1]

So now you're basically agreeing with what I said when we drafted him, i.e. he was never going to be a good fit for a 3-4?? Are you sure you want to align with me on a player?? The other kids in here can get kind of nasty when they're throwing rotten vegetables at me... you could get caught in the crossfire ;)

And for the record, trying Jones at LB is dumber still... wreaks of trying to play Kampman there.

They should have resigned Neal. Losing him is going to hurt.

I think I'll be ok.

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?25404-Pick-26-Datone-Jones&p=721597&viewfull=1#post721597


He's strictly a 5-technique in a 30 base, and he's a versatile DT inside on passing downs.

I don't feel like its any dumber of a reclamation project than moving Neal to OLB was. You gotta think its a distant plan B though.

[Deputy Nutz]

So now you're basically agreeing with what I said when we drafted him, i.e. he was never going to be a good fit for a 3-4?? Are you sure you want to align with me on a player?? The other kids in here can get kind of nasty when they're throwing rotten vegetables at me... you could get caught in the crossfire ;)

And for the record, trying Jones at LB is dumber still... wreaks of trying to play Kampman there.

They should have resigned Neal. Losing him is going to hurt.


The issue in the past half a dozen drafts is that Thompson doesn't draft players for the 3-4 defense. He doesn't realize that you have to draft players that actually fit the scheme your team is running. Nick Perry, Mike Neal, Jerell Worthy, Mike Daniels*, Datone Jones. I struggle with the fact that Thompson fails to realize that you basically that you play 3 really big guys at the linemen position, and then draft 4 athletic fellas to play linebacker. You don't draft college defensive ends and stand them up as outside linebackers. You don't draft college defensive ends in 4-3 defenses in college and ask them to play defensive tackle in a 3-4.

[woodbuck27]

I have to say, Mayock's ranking was pretty damned close to the actual drafting order. Manuel's ranking is out of whack but that can be explained as a reach by Buffalo.

Who should ever trust what the ultimate draft expert (Mike Mayock) might proclaim?

Sure the Experts sometimes get it wrong but no less they are the best or considered competent at what they do...they are obviously respected by the NFL Teams or prospects wouldn't generally come off the board in terms related to 'the Expert Grades' and overall ranking of prospects. Too poo poo all that is nonsense...maybe even arrogance when you put down any fan that acknowledges or respects what these experts have to offer. To go there disclaims against any NFL fan that dedicates him/herself to reading all that available on the internet or in magazines specializing in the importance of the annual NFL Draft.

I'll proclaim this:

If your a serious fan, investing time and money in things like the NFL Network and reading all that's available on the internet won't hurt your competence to expand your fan experience and maybe know more than the casual NFL fan.

We al know that the draft can be hit and miss. TT and his draft team select a certain player based on clear criteria of need or PBA.Then the work with that prospect really begins. It's then more than less out of Ted Thompson and the Scouts hands and in the guidance of the Packer Coaching staff . It's with that prospects real ability to find the correct attitude and drive for a roster spot. That attitude and appreciation for their careers as NFL players on the Green Bay Packers must be maintained ever present into years two ..three etc.

[pbmax]

The issue in the past half a dozen drafts is that Thompson doesn't draft players for the 3-4 defense. He doesn't realize that you have to draft players that actually fit the scheme your team is running. Nick Perry, Mike Neal, Jerell Worthy, Mike Daniels*, Datone Jones. I struggle with the fact that Thompson fails to realize that you basically that you play 3 really big guys at the linemen position, and then draft 4 athletic fellas to play linebacker. You don't draft college defensive ends and stand them up as outside linebackers. You don't draft college defensive ends in 4-3 defenses in college and ask them to play defensive tackle in a 3-4.

I am pretty sure with the drafting of Raji and Matthews that Thompson knows the body type.

There was no reason other than health that Perry can't play OLB very well. Neal turned out to be too puffed up to be a 5 tech DT but he looked for all the world like one. He played alright as an elephant and if he wasn't bringing PED rumors into the locker room, he might still be on the roster. If you read his draft notices, 5 tech is mentioned often. Worthy and Daniels were grabs for speed and pass rush. One worked out, the other can barely stay in the League regardless of scheme. Jones looked like 1 of the 2 best 5 techs in his draft. Physically, he is tailor made for it. I think scouting/player busts have played more of a role than targeted body type.

The main problem is that they haven't been a straight 3-4 since 2010.

First, they are in 3-4 base about 25% of the time. And when they are in base, they are often aligned like a 4-3 Over defense. 1 tech, 3 tech, 5-7 tech and 9 tech (OLB).

So drafting just for 3-4 would leave you shorthanded for nickel and dime: 75% of your snaps.

[mraynrand]

First, they are in 3-4 base about 25% of the time.

If they are only in it 25% of the time, why call it base? They don't.

[mraynrand]

First, they are in 3-4 about 25% of the time. And when they are in 3-4, they are often aligned like a 4-3 Over defense. 1 tech, 3 tech, 5-7 tech and 9 tech (OLB).

So drafting just for 3-4 would leave you shorthanded for base nickel and dime: 75% of your snaps.

They've often said they wanted to draft/develop personnel that could switch to multiple alignments without substitution. I think that's at least one reason why Jones is 'standing up' and one reason why they drafted the Northwestern guy: You look at his tape and he really can play anywhere on the line except maybe nose against the run. He even looked reasonably comfortable in a zone blitz drop.

[Deputy Nutz]

I am pretty sure with the drafting of Raji and Matthews that Thompson knows the body type.

There was no reason other than health that Perry can't play OLB very well. Neal turned out to be too puffed up to be a 5 tech DT but he looked for all the world like one. He played alright as an elephant and if he wasn't bringing PED rumors into the locker room, he might still be on the roster. If you read his draft notices, 5 tech is mentioned often. Worthy and Daniels were grabs for speed and pass rush. One worked out, the other can barely stay in the League regardless of scheme. Jones looked like 1 of the 2 best 5 techs in his draft. Physically, he is tailor made for it. I think scouting/player busts have played more of a role than targeted body type.

The main problem is that they haven't been a straight 3-4 since 2010.

First, they are in 3-4 base about 25% of the time. And when they are in base, they are often aligned like a 4-3 Over defense. 1 tech, 3 tech, 5-7 tech and 9 tech (OLB).

So drafting just for 3-4 would leave you shorthanded for nickel and dime: 75% of your snaps.

Sign Peppers, move him to outside linebacker. :roll:

[mraynrand]

Sign Peppers, move him to outside linebacker. :roll:

Who cares what you call him? Sign him as a TE, but line him up where his strengths are best utilized; i.e. probably not a good idea to drop him in coverage all that often, but can do that more often with him than with Perry.

[mraynrand]

Who should ever trust what the ultimate draft expert (Mike Mayock) might proclaim?

Sure the Experts sometimes get it wrong but no less they are the best or considered competent at what they do...they are obviously respected by the NFL Teams or prospects wouldn't generally come off the board in terms related to 'the Expert Grades' and overall ranking of prospects. Too poo poo all that is nonsense...maybe even arrogance when you put down any fan that acknowledges or respects what these experts have to offer. To go there disclaims against any NFL fan that dedicates him/herself to reading all that available on the internet or in magazines specializing in the importance of the annual NFL Draft.

I'll proclaim this:

If your a serious fan, investing time and money in things like the NFL Network and reading all that's available on the internet won't hurt your competence to expand your fan experience and maybe know more than the casual NFL fan.

We al know that the draft can be hit and miss. TT and his draft team select a certain player based on clear criteria of need or PBA.Then the work with that prospect really begins. It's then more than less out of Ted Thompson and the Scouts hands and in the guidance of the Packer Coaching staff . It's with that prospects real ability to find the correct attitude and drive for a roster spot. That attitude and appreciation for their careers as NFL players on the Green Bay Packers must be maintained ever present into years two ..three etc.

what's your point?

[Carolina_Packer]

I think I'll be ok.

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?25404-Pick-26-Datone-Jones&p=721597&viewfull=1#post721597



I don't feel like its any dumber of a reclamation project than moving Neal to OLB was. You gotta think its a distant plan B though.

Obviously he got moved because they wanted to get him more snaps, because he wasn't getting enough otherwise. When he was drafted in 2013, he was projected as a proto-5 tech in a 3-4. Just because he didn't kill it, is not necessarily a reflection on anyone's evaluation skills or coaching. Sometimes it just doesn't work. The team has three choices; 1) have him try diversifying his portfolio by playing OLB or 2) let him rot on the vine or 3) cut him. Without a doubt this is a big year for Datone. I'm sure he knows that more than anyone. I hope he stays healthy and finally is able to show what the Packers saw in him in the first place.

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers also turned down Perry's 5th year and they are still paying him 5 million. So that doesn't mean they won't sign him after the season they just don't want to sign him for his option

[pbmax]

^ Yep, good point. Specifically, both Sylvester and Hayden I think were mentioned in the news reports as being likely retained, but at lower dollar figures.

[Bossman641]

It's hard to believe how far Patterson has fallen. After his rookie year the dude looked like a star

[Fritz]

Agreed. Now he's "just" a dangerous kick returner, when everyone thought he was the next Randy Moss.