Walker

[Brando19]

"Jeff Legwold, of the Rocky Mountain News, reports Denver Broncos WR Javon Walker is hoping to be a big-play threat by working the middle of the field and coming up with the tough catches – a team weakness last season. "The big plays, going across the middle, catching the balls I used to catch in Green Bay, that's what I want," Walker said. "Just give Jake (Plummer) the confidence of throwing the ball up and that if I don't come down with it, no one else will. Just take my game to another level. Because in this offense, that's where the big plays are going to be."

I hope Javon Walker drops as many catches as Corey Rogers in training camp. :mad:

[b bulldog]

Sadly for us in GB, he will probably cement himself as a top 10 WR this season if he stays healthy.

[CaliforniaCheez]

Well, Walker went to a team desperate for receivers.

They spent a second round pick on a guy who only started 18 games in the previous 4 years and only 157 catches.

Jennings seems to be much smarter, better gifted, and 6 years younger.

The Broncos will be lucky to get 3 years of dismal production from him.

[b bulldog]

jennings is a real find but he is no where near as gifted as Walker. Walker is an elite player IF he can get back to his past form.

[GrnBay007]

jennings is a real find but he is no where near as gifted as Walker. Walker is an elite player IF he can get back to his past form.

But did Walker look as gifted his rookie year? No sir!! :razz:

[Brando19]

I have to agree that Jennings will be a better receiver than Walker if he stays on the track he's on now. He's got a good head on his shoulders and is on his way to a possible offensive Rookie of the Year award.

[digitaldean]

I think Walker will do well in Denver.

If Plummer struggles or doesn't get him the ball "enough" - then we'll see how much loyalty he really has in Denver.

Though I wish no ill will on him, I wouldn't object a few LBs giving him a little "reminder" about going across the middle. :mrgreen:

What galls me about this jerk is that he stunk his first 2 yrs. here. Boy, he sure wasn't clamoring to pay back the wasted part of his salary then. But, man, if he outplays his contract he whines, cries and throws a hissy fit like a stinkin' baby. :evil:

I understand since there are no "guaranteed" NFL contracts, this is the leverage players use toward management.

I put Deion Branch in the same category as Walker. Play the contract out and let your performance do the talking.

[b bulldog]

Jennings has no way near the athletic ability as Walker and to think otherwise is foolish. Jennings is a polished rookie who looks like a real find. He doesn't have the tools that 84 has but not many do. All rookies usually have their heads on straight but once they get into position to get the big bucks?????

[vince]

Bulldog said:

Jennings has no way near the athletic ability as Walker and to think otherwise is foolish.
Bulldog, you are the one that is foolish and you've proven it time and again here.

The only thing Walker has on Jennings is a few inches and a couple tenths on his straight-away sprint time. There's much more to athletic ability than a 40 time.

Here are excerpts from each of their NFL scouting reports...

Javon Walker

Fast, but lacks that second gear to consistently escape on deep routes … Not that aggressive as a blocker, making passive attempts to seal off … Needs to develop a nastier nature, as he tends to back down from the physical battles … Seems to hesitate, taking time to regain his speed after making the catch … More effective in deep routes as he is not as quick to get into his short routes like the little receivers do … Bit of a long strider who lacks nifty moves, but has the speed to make defenders miss … Has had concentration problems, resulting in drops of easy passes.

Greg Jennings

Jennings is a very good athlete with the foot quickness, agility and explosiveness to make big plays in the open field. He makes his biggest impact by making things happen after the catch. He is a very smart receiver that runs very sharp routes -- sells fakes very well and can get the cornerback to bite and turn the wrong way. When he can get the cornerback turned, Jennings has the burst to get separation deep down the field. He has very good hands and has shown the ability to pluck the ball away from defenders' hands at nearly full speed.

In terms of ATHLETIC ABILITY, Greg Jennings has more of it. SIZE and 40 SPEED - Walker

Who will be a better receiver? Time will tell, but my money's on Jennings.

[GrnBay007]

Who will be a better receiver? Time will tell, but my money's on Jennings.

Amen Brotha Vince!!! :razz:

[b bulldog]

I can't believe this, I guess this shows my thinking to be way off the mark on the Favre issue because this shows that it's just the players who wear the green and gold and not nescessarily a single player that makes the glasses go to a shade of green and gold. Watch the 2003?? season and tell me how many WR's make those catches. W3alker is a game changer who oozes talent and Jennings is a very good WR but lacks the elite skills that Walker posseses.

[vince]

W3alker is a game changer who oozes talent and Jennings is a very good WR but lacks the elite skills that Walker posseses.

Bulldog, you are just plain wrong. It's really as simple as that. Jennings is quicker, more agile, and more ATHLETIC than Walker.

Walker - again - is taller and straight away faster... two qualities that serve him well, but don't confuse height with skills and athleticism.

Walker has some athleticism, just not to the same level as Jennings.

...and it's offensive for you to state directly that anyone who disagrees with you is foolish. Keep the debate to the issues and you won't get attacked.

[Brando19]

Vince, thanks for your input. Your exactly right. Bulldog, you're the friggin fool and I'd appreciate you not saying I'm foolish for having an opinion.

[Willard]

While I have been very happy with Jennings so far he hasn't played an NFL game yet. Walker was a legitimate gamechanger in 2004 (Bulldog, I think '04 was the year). I will be very happy if Jennings develops into the kind of threat we had with Walker 2 years ago. As far as who is more athletic? I would have to see them compete on one of those "NFL Superstars" TV specials to answer that one. I think as a rookie Jennings is much more likely to have an immediate impact than was Walker. I could not be happier with Jennings to this point. If he approaches Walker's numbers from 2004 this year I will be ecstatic! Maybe we should give him a little more time though. :wink:

[Joemailman]

I can't believe this, I guess this shows my thinking to be way off the mark on the Favre issue because this shows that it's just the players who wear the green and gold and not nescessarily a single player that makes the glasses go to a shade of green and gold. Watch the 2003?? season and tell me how many WR's make those catches. W3alker is a game changer who oozes talent and Jennings is a very good WR but lacks the elite skills that Walker posseses.

Time will tell who the better receiver will be, but if physical ability were the only thing that mattered, then Randy Moss would be clearly better than Marvin Harrison and Torry Holt. It just ain't so. We'll have to wait a couple of years to really judge how great Jennings is. But one thing is for sure. Jennings is better as a rookie than Walker was, and it's not even close.

[GBRulz]

jennings is much further along than JW was his rookie year and 4 years younger if I'm not mistaken. I don't know how you can ever compare the two at this point.

Fergie is more physically gifted than Driver. I suppose you think Fergy is a more dominant receiver, too.

[FritzDontBlitz]

every time i see these walker threads spring up i'm reminded of the old adage "there's no use crying over spilled milk."

[Guiness]

If it was all about athleticism, it would be pretty easy to draft WR's, wouldn't it?

Keyshawn Johnson was a #1 pick, athletic as all get out. Marvin Harrison was #19, the fourth WR taken. Essentially, we have no friggen clue if Jennings will be as good as Walker, worse than Walker or a Hall of Famer. Anyone who knows differently should go play roulette in Vegas.

[RashanGary]

There were a couple guys named Marvin Harrison and Jerry Rice. 6'0" and 5'11". They might go down as the best 2 WR's to ever play the game and they'd argue with you that hight is the most important attribute.

Chad Johnson, Steve Smith are the best 2 in teh game right now and both are short in comparision to Walker.

I wouldn't put too much stock in height. I think Red said it pretty well above so I'll hold back on piling it on.

I think Jennings will have a much more productive career than Walker. He's kind of like Steve Smith. He'll make big plays.

[RashanGary]

If it was all about athleticism, it would be pretty easy to draft WR's, wouldn't it?

Keyshawn Johnson was a #1 pick, athletic as all get out. Marvin Harrison was #19, the fourth WR taken. Essentially, we have no friggen clue if Jennings will be as good as Walker, worse than Walker or a Hall of Famer. Anyone who knows differently should go play roulette in Vegas.

Great point.

[Bretsky]

jennings is a real find but he is no where near as gifted as Walker. Walker is an elite player IF he can get back to his past form.

EXACTLY RIGHT

[Bretsky]

jennings is a real find but he is no where near as gifted as Walker. Walker is an elite player IF he can get back to his past form.

But did Walker look as gifted his rookie year? No sir!! :razz:


Walker to me looked very very gifted as a rookie; you could see the acceleration and the potential to go up and get the jump balls. He didn't develop and put things together til later, but you could see a huge huge upside.

[b bulldog]

Smith is a burner while Jennings isn't. keyshawn never had the speed just like Mike Williams doesn't. We'll see about this but Walker IF HEALTHY has it all. He is one of those rare guys who will catch the tuff balls across the middle and on the next play he will out maneuver 3 defenders on a jump ball and score a TD. You can compare jennings to Rice,Harrison ect if you'd like but in a weak WR class, he went in round 2. This doesn't mean he won 't be a superstar but his ceiling may not be near as high as some others. He does look very good as a rookie and I have read on numerous occassions that he was the best player in camp this preseason on either side of the ball. Hopefully he develops into a stud at WR so J Walk will be forgotten.

[prsnfoto]

Bulldog, I was waiting for you to fall into that trap you compared jennings to the two best WR's ever to touch a ball since Don Hutson Rice and Harrison which is exactly who many scouts and coaches are doing the same. If he is anywhere near that good he blows Walker away, JW career is half over and he has what 2000 yds he might hit 8000 if lucky. I'll take 12 years of 800-1200 yards a year which is where Jennings is heading barring a bad injury.

[b bulldog]

TRAP?I stated that above but comparisons are a bit premature, agree?

[MJZiggy]

When asked about the comments Javon Walker made to the Denver post, linebacker Nick Barnett responded,

"It's Javon Walker. What do you say? People say stuff like that, that's like saying TO said something. Who cares."

Cornerback Al Harris responded generously and cautiously when he said, "I wish Javon al the best of luck and I'm happy that he had confidence in his team."

He immediately thereafter accused the reporter of trying to trap him and fishing. The reporter's response? Hey, I have an hour-long show.

Reading between the lines, Harris' comments sounded slightly more like, "do we play them? because if we do I'm gonna kick the shit out of him in the game."

[mraynrand]

"The big plays, going across the middle, catching the balls I used to catch in Green Bay, that's what I want," Walker said.

Yes Walker made big plays, but did I miss something? When did he go across the middle? Once? Twice? I remember him turning upfield against MN inthe 2004 wild card game when he was supposed to be running across the middle, contributing to an INT. One thing I won't miss about Walker is the sound the wind made whistling between his ears.

[MuttnJeff]

Walker came into the league very raw. He hadn't played that much football, had spent several years in the minors hoping to become a big league baseball player.

I don't have any idea if Jennings will have a better NFL career than Walker. It's possible. It's like asking whether Aaron Rodgers will be better than Kurt Warner.

[Terry]

Well, I don't much care for comparisons, but in general I have to agree with Bretsky and Bulldog - Walker is a top flight receiver. We did take a hit with his loss, no way around that.

The only question I'd have about Walker would be to wonder if he might be afraid now of being injured. That was such a bugbear for him and you know how self-fulfilling prophecies can be. His fear of injury, were he to have it, could be just as crippling to his career and actually having injuries. See Robert Ferguson.

[Favre4]

When a horse injures there leg they are sent out to pasture. Walker is talented, but his injury history along with his terrible attitude, will always make him more of a Keyshawn type. An overrated jerk.

[Patler]

"The big plays, going across the middle, catching the balls I used to catch in Green Bay, that's what I want," Walker said.

Yes Walker made big plays, but did I miss something? When did he go across the middle? Once? Twice? I remember him turning upfield against MN inthe 2004 wild card game when he was supposed to be running across the middle, contributing to an INT. One thing I won't miss about Walker is the sound the wind made whistling between his ears.

That was my thought exactly. If you look back at the 2004 commentary from coaches, they even metioned several times that the Packer passing game would be even more unstoppable if they could send Walker across the middle like they did with Driver. Some seem to equate being big with being good in the middle where you know you will get drilled when making the catch. Driver has shown a willingness to do it, Walker did not for the Packers.

I argued long and hard on JSO even BEFORE the 2005 season that Walker still had something to prove. He essentially had two seasons in 2004, the first half and the second half. Driver was the proven receiver, Walker had shown inconsistency in routes and in catching the ball. At the start of the season, Driver was the one teams concentrated on while they dared Walker to make plays. He did, and the emphasis shifted to a more balanced respect from defenses for the two Packer receivers.

Walker, games 1-8 of 2004 - 46 rec., 17.02yds./rec., 7 TDs
Walker, games 9-16 of 2004-43 rec., 13.9yds/rec., 5 TDs

In the first half of the season, Walker had 4 games of 100+ yards; in the second half of the season he had just one game with 100+ yards, and that came against Tennessee when he had 11 receptions. If you take that away from his second half season, in the remaining 7 games he had 32 receptions for 447 yards.

In my evaluation Walker has shown that he commands respect from the defense. The question now is when they give him that respect or attention can he still perform like an elite receiver? The truly great receivers are able to rack up the stats almost regardless of what the defense does. Walker has yet to show that. He very well might do it. He certainly has the physical tools to do it. In my book he did not yet prove that in 2004. What he did prove is that left alone he is a great receiver. In the second half he was "only" very good when the defenses started respecting his ability.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Walker, games 1-8 of 2004 - 46 rec., 17.02yds./rec., 7 TDs
Walker, games 9-16 of 2004-43 rec., 13.9yds/rec., 5 TDs

The stats look about the same to me. Only 3 less rec. and only twoTDs less. 5tds, about 600 yards and 43 rec. in 8 games looks vey good to me.[/b]

[MJZiggy]

Why do I believe that Drivers stats would prove to be more stable, though?

[Patler]

Walker, games 1-8 of 2004 - 46 rec., 17.02yds./rec., 7 TDs
Walker, games 9-16 of 2004-43 rec., 13.9yds/rec., 5 TDs

The stats look about the same to me. Only 3 less rec. and only twoTDs less. 5tds, about 600 yards and 43 rec. in 8 games looks vey good to me.[/b]

You have to dig a little deeper,...and remember the season. Walker was the talk of the league the first half, then defenses started respecting his ability. His first half was more consistent, with 100+ yards in games 2, 3, 5 and 7. As I wrote, in the second half he had one big game, with 11 receptions for 152 yards. No other games with 100+ yards, or even 90+ yards. If you take that one game away, his second half of the season was 7 games, 32 receptions and 447 yards. Very good, but not really elite by any means.

My whole point is that before he is annointed as one of the 3, 4 or 5 best receivers in the league he has to prove that he can perform even when the defenses are geared to stop him.

Look at what Driver did last year when defenses knew not only that he was the only receiving threat for the Packers, but also that the Packers had no running game.

Walker's numbers were racked up with Driver on the other side, who virtually matched Walkers season in 2004(84/1208 vs 89/1382); Franks having a solid season at TE, and the Packers running game having over 1900 yards. He is fortunate to be in Denver, where he could have some of the same advantages this year. Realistically though, he still has to prove where he belongs in WR rankings.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Walker, games 1-8 of 2004 - 46 rec., 17.02yds./rec., 7 TDs
Walker, games 9-16 of 2004-43 rec., 13.9yds/rec., 5 TDs

The stats look about the same to me. Only 3 less rec. and only twoTDs less. 5tds, about 600 yards and 43 rec. in 8 games looks vey good to me.[/b]

Yeah, pro-rated over a season that still projects to 86 receptions, 1195 yards, and 10 TDs. Not bad for his "bad" half.

[Partial]

Walker, games 1-8 of 2004 - 46 rec., 17.02yds./rec., 7 TDs
Walker, games 9-16 of 2004-43 rec., 13.9yds/rec., 5 TDs

The stats look about the same to me. Only 3 less rec. and only twoTDs less. 5tds, about 600 yards and 43 rec. in 8 games looks vey good to me.[/b]

Yeah, pro-rated over a season that still projects to 86 receptions, 1195 yards, and 10 TDs. Not bad for his "bad" half.

I agree with you, thats a great season, but Patler brings up a very valid point that should not be ignored. I have a hunch those facts greatly contributed to TT's unwillingness to sign him to a TO/Moss/Rice/Harrison style extension.

[Patler]

Walker, games 1-8 of 2004 - 46 rec., 17.02yds./rec., 7 TDs
Walker, games 9-16 of 2004-43 rec., 13.9yds/rec., 5 TDs

The stats look about the same to me. Only 3 less rec. and only twoTDs less. 5tds, about 600 yards and 43 rec. in 8 games looks vey good to me.[/b]

Yeah, pro-rated over a season that still projects to 86 receptions, 1195 yards, and 10 TDs. Not bad for his "bad" half.

I agree, as I wrote before.
How about 73 receptions for 1021 yards? That is what 7 of his last 8 games project out to over a 16 game schedule. Still good, but not elite.

I never suggested that Walker is not a very good receiver. Clearly he is. I'm not sure how good, yet.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I understand what your trying to point out, but I don't really think that, thats the case. In the first 8 games he got about 46 rec., 800 yards, and 7 tds. In the last 8 games he got about 43 rec. 600 yards and 5 tds. The major difference is only about 200 yards and 2 tds. It may very well be that defenses started covering him more and thats why his numbers dropped or it be for many other reasons. Driver could have been equally open and favre throw him the ball more, we had more rushing attempts in the last 8 games, or maybe some other reason. Plus you have to remember that some people have good games and bad games. In the first 8 games he may of had no drops and in the last 8 he may of had all his drops. For example when Randy Moss gets 1400 yards in a season, he may get 900 by week 8 and then tail off. That doesn't mean he's not one of the best, but maybe it just happen to be that the team started losing in the last 8 games and the total offense had less yards altogether.

Am just saying that it could have been other reasons why his number dropped a bit, and not just him getting covered more.

Also, one can actually use our arguement as a possible reason why Walker had a better second half then the first. If more coverage was towards him and he still got half a dozon tds and 600 yards that says something in its own.

[Patler]

I understand what your trying to point out, but I don't really think that, thats the case. In the first 8 games he got about 46 rec., 800 yards, and 7 tds. In the last 8 games he got about 43 rec. 600 yards and 5 tds. The major difference is only about 200 yards and 2 tds. It may very well be that defenses started covering him more and thats why his numbers dropped or it be for many other reasons. Driver could have been equally open and favre throw him the ball more, we had more rushing attempts in the last 8 games, or maybe some other reason. Plus you have to remember that some people have good games and bad games. In the first 8 games he may of had no drops and in the last 8 he may of had all his drops. For example when Randy Moss gets 1400 yards in a season, he may get 900 by week 8 and then tail off. That doesn't mean he's not one of the best, but maybe it just happen to be that the team started losing in the last 8 games and the total offense had less yards altogether.

Am just saying that it could have been other reasons why his number dropped a bit, and not just him getting covered more.

Also, one can actually use our arguement as a possible reason why Walker had a better second half then the first. If more coverage was towards him and he still got half a dozon tds and 600 yards that says something in its own.

I don't diagree one bit, that's exactly my point. He has yet to PROVE that he is an elite receiver, game in and game out. He may just be a good receiver who took advantage of the situation for the first 8 games in 2004, or he might be an 80 receptions, 1200 yards, 10 TD guy year in and year out.

It takes more than one year to become an elite receiver. After all, Terry Glenn had 90 receptions as a rookie, but due to injuries and performance he really has proven to be a 50-60 receptions player, not an elite player.