Bosa still unsigned

[Guiness]

One of the best things about the last CBA was removing any (turns out, most) reasons for rookie holdouts. Looks like the Chargers have found a way to create one anyways.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/03/still-no-talks-between-bosa-chargers/

Best description of the situation I've seen is here
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/07/30/chargers-befuddled-by-bosas-position/


By all accounts, the problem seems to be that the Chargers want their cake, and eat it too. They want offset language and a deferred signing bonus. Bosa reportedly wants only 1 of the 2, which has been the precedent before now.

Curiously, a few players (and a the coach) have come out with statements like "he's missing important reps" and "he needs to sign the contract" and not "it's business" or "the team needs to get him signed"

[pbmax]

This will go a long way to getting them funding for a new stadium after Jerry shut them down in LA.

[Zool]

Sign the contract, rook, and start showing you deserve it. Guys that hold out get hurt quite often.

[pbmax]

^ Nope. Team is trying to claw back concessions they they and other teams have granted. The Chargers are making a big ask and offering nothing in return.

[smuggler]

Yeah, gotta say fuck the Chargers on this one. Hope they are forced to trade him and he goes to a team that is relevant.

[Guiness]

A question I have is, would the deferred payment be fully, fully guaranteed? If so, why does the team care so much about holding onto the money an extra 6 months? Conversely, why is he so anxious to get the cash?
On the other hand, if there are scenarios that allow the team to get out of paying the money (like say, killing your fiance's sister's boyfriend) then I can understand Bosa wanting the money NOW.

[King Friday]

Dumb move by the player...sign the deal and get into camp. The value of the camp time being missed will rapidly outpace the value of having a signing bonus a couple months earlier if the holdout stretches past a few days. Rookie pass rushers often find the introduction to the NFL to be quite an ass-kicking.

[Patler]

I don't look at this as a big request from the team at all. The fact some teams treated a few top of the first round draft picks differently than others in the first round doesn't obligate the Charges to do the same.

From the players' perspective, there is an artificial line somewhere in the first round; if you were picked before that line you get all of your bonus immediately, and if you were picked after, some of your bonus is paid later. What good reason is there to treat some differently, and where should the line be drawn? Why shouldn't all rookie signing bonuses be paid on the same schedule?

Probably an issue for the next CBA, definitive agreement on payment of rookie signing bonuses.

[Zool]

Unless I misunderstand, the off-set part is the big sticking point. Why the fuck would SD let the guy double dip on the back end of a contract? If he's so overly confident in his abilities then he should know he'll play out at least the 4 full years if not the team option 5th. If he sucks and they cut him, he's still due the money being that it's guaranteed. SD is saying that if he signs with another team, they are off the hook for the remainder that's covered by his new contract.

To which I say, get your ass to camp rook and prove that you're not the next top 5 flop.

[Guiness]

I don't look at this as a big request from the team at all. The fact some teams treated a few top of the first round draft picks differently than others in the first round doesn't obligate the Charges to do the same.

From the players' perspective, there is an artificial line somewhere in the first round; if you were picked before that line you get all of your bonus immediately, and if you were picked after, some of your bonus is paid later. What good reason is there to treat some differently, and where should the line be drawn? Why shouldn't all rookie signing bonuses be paid on the same schedule?

Probably an issue for the next CBA, definitive agreement on payment of rookie signing bonuses.

Conversely, I don't see it as much of a request from the player. It's a signing bonus, give it to him when he signs! I don't understand why the Chargers are taking such a hard line on this, do they have cash flow problems? Contract is slotted, can they pull it off the table? Seems to me if they're insisting on offset language and signing bonus deferment, he's got nothing (monetarily) to lose, and he'll get the same now or if he signs the night before the season opens.

[pbmax]

A question I have is, would the deferred payment be fully, fully guaranteed? If so, why does the team care so much about holding onto the money an extra 6 months? Conversely, why is he so anxious to get the cash?
On the other hand, if there are scenarios that allow the team to get out of paying the money (like say, killing your fiance's sister's boyfriend) then I can understand Bosa wanting the money NOW.

Deferred would mean lost value (present value versus future value) but mainly its control. If Joey Bosa goes Maurice Clarett, deferred money can be withheld by the team if they or the League feel they have cause. Money paid upfront is harder to get back.

[Patler]

Conversely, I don't see it as much of a request from the player. It's a signing bonus, give it to him when he signs! I don't understand why the Chargers are taking such a hard line on this, do they have cash flow problems? Contract is slotted, can they pull it off the table? Seems to me if they're insisting on offset language and signing bonus deferment, he's got nothing (monetarily) to lose, and he'll get the same now or if he signs the night before the season opens.

Apparently it is standard to pay the signing bonus in installments for everyone but a few early first round picks. I think all rookie signing bonuses should be treated the same by all teams, whether it be 100% at signing, or in a couple installments. I see no reason to have it be a point of contention when so much in their first contracts is predetermined already.

[Patler]

Deferred would mean lost value (present value versus future value) but mainly its control. If Joey Bosa goes Maurice Clarett, deferred money can be withheld by the team if they or the League feel they have cause. Money paid upfront is harder to get back.

Ultimately it comes down to whether they have a right to get the money away from the player whether already paid or not. Procedurely there might be advantages if not yet paid, but it won't change the determination of rights. Besides, chances are he will already have the money anyway because the postponed payment is only until March anyway.

[pbmax]

Ultimately it comes down to whether they have a right to get the money away from the player whether already paid or not. Procedurely there might be advantages if not yet paid, but it won't change the determination of rights. Besides, chances are he will already have the money anyway because the postponed payment is only until March anyway.

I do not agree that the final amount is determined by legal rights only. Settlements of claims alone add in variation to the letter of the law.

But put that aside. Both sides want to be in control of the money for as long as possible.

This is the reverse of the player agents who tried, successfully for a while, to get mega bonuses into the contracts of the early first round picks. Year by year they wore teams down and got the money for lower picks. Before the last CBA, they were close to the 10th pick of the round.

[Patler]

I do not agree that the final amount is determined by legal rights only. Settlements of claims alone add in variation to the letter of the law.

Potential settlements are the procedural advantages I was referring to. However, the chance of a settlement is really quite small because the overlying issue is huge for the league and the union. Each will take it as far as they can to win.

[pbmax]

Ultimately it comes down to whether they have a right to get the money away from the player whether already paid or not. Procedurely there might be advantages if not yet paid, but it won't change the determination of rights. Besides, chances are he will already have the money anyway because the postponed payment is only until March anyway.

Boss was the third pick in the first round in 2016. Has it been standard for other 3rd picks overall?

[call_me_ishmael]

Joey Bosa? Flop? Did you see the kid play in college? He'll be a beast in short order. I wouldn't sign the deal either if the team isn't following the protocol that other teams do. It's not like he's short on money, his family is very wealthy. There is a collective bargaining agreement for a reason and there is a SOP WRT these rookie deals. If the Chargers aren't following it and yanking him around, why would he sign? They'll be plenty of other teams interested in his services.

[Patler]

But put that aside. Both sides want to be in control of the money for as long as possible.

This is the reverse of the player agents who tried, successfully for a while, to get mega bonuses into the contracts of the early first round picks. Year by year they wore teams down and got the money for lower picks. Before the last CBA, they were close to the 10th pick of the round.

Of course each side wants control of the money for as long as possible, and I completely understand why the union and agent want to make a big deal about it. If he were honest when asked, I would bet Bosa himself would gladly sign and come into camp. In effect he is "taking one for the team", with the team being the NFLPA.

I don't think there is a right or wrong here. I negotiated many contracts in the business world that had huge guaranteed payments upon signing. Sometimes the checks were on the table when the contracts were signed, sometimes they were payable over time. Ultimately, when the time period is short, it is a silly issue to delay a deal unless cash flow is a problem. In the world of NFL rookie contracts it seems to me to be an absolutely stupid issue to keep a player out of camp because it is not the actual players issue, it is the team vs the union, and the player suffers. So, specify it in the next CBA and force the teams and union to address issues of significance instead of quibbling.

[Patler]

Boss was the third pick in the first round in 2016. Has it been standard for other 3rd picks overall?

Has it been standard for the Chargers? Has it even been standard for 1st round picks generally?

My point is simply it is stupid to have an artificial, probably varying line at some level in the first round for treating bonuses differently.

[King Friday]

Did you see the kid play in college?

I live near Columbus. I've seen him a lot. Bosa is a very good prospect. He's not a can't-miss prospect or short order "beast" though. He relied extensively on his superior size and strength in college, along with having a lot of superior talent around him in defensive support. All those advantages are now gone at the NFL level. He's not a guy with freakish speed that can just beat NFL OTs from a three point stance. He doesn't have a wide array of pass rush moves and will need to learn and adapt. However, he is technically sound with his hands and feet for the most part, so I don't think he will be prone to becoming a total flop.

He needs to get his ass into camp and start figuring out what it takes to succeed in the NFL...because I'm not sure he's a kid who has ever had to really WORK to get ahead in football to this point. Some guys relish that challenge...some guys shrink from it. Only time will tell which group Bosa falls into.

[Guiness]

Has it been standard for the Chargers? Has it even been standard for 1st round picks generally?

My point is simply it is stupid to have an artificial, probably varying line at some level in the first round for treating bonuses differently.

Hindsight is 20-20 and I'm sure the NFL sees letting these issues to be negotiable at all a mistake. They should've known that agents are looking to justify their existence, so will pick whatever fight they can. On thee other hand, it might be an artificial line but the Chargers know damn well that they're well above it, and are being obstinate. To answer your question Patler, since the new CBA has been in place, no #3 pick has had both deferred money and offset language.

I agree with pbmax that teams want to hold onto the money because if the player goes off his nut, they have a much better chance of keeping it than trying to get it back. Manziel managed to not get paid for the last two years of his "fully guaranteed" contract.

[pbmax]

Has it been standard for the Chargers? Has it even been standard for 1st round picks generally?

My point is simply it is stupid to have an artificial, probably varying line at some level in the first round for treating bonuses differently.

After the 2012 CBA made slotting iron clad, I can't believe its not baked into the contract terms.

[call_me_ishmael]

I live near Columbus. I've seen him a lot. Bosa is a very good prospect. He's not a can't-miss prospect or short order "beast" though. He relied extensively on his superior size and strength in college, along with having a lot of superior talent around him in defensive support. All those advantages are now gone at the NFL level. He's not a guy with freakish speed that can just beat NFL OTs from a three point stance. He doesn't have a wide array of pass rush moves and will need to learn and adapt. However, he is technically sound with his hands and feet for the most part, so I don't think he will be prone to becoming a total flop.

He needs to get his ass into camp and start figuring out what it takes to succeed in the NFL...because I'm not sure he's a kid who has ever had to really WORK to get ahead in football to this point. Some guys relish that challenge...some guys shrink from it. Only time will tell which group Bosa falls into.

Respectfully, I see some of what you're seeing but he was a clear stud in college that made the players around him better. We'll see if that translates to the pros. I think his athleticism numbers are clearly a cut above many other linemen.

http://cdn1.thecomeback.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/94/2016/02/ESPN-Bosa-Watt.jpg

[Patler]

On thee other hand, it might be an artificial line but the Chargers know damn well that they're well above it, and are being obstinate. To answer your question Patler, since the new CBA has been in place, no #3 pick has had both deferred money and offset language.

I agree with pbmax that teams want to hold onto the money because if the player goes off his nut, they have a much better chance of keeping it than trying to get it back. Manziel managed to not get paid for the last two years of his "fully guaranteed" contract.

From the team's perspective, should the Packers be bound to follow a negotiable term in the same way that teams like Cleveland, Detroit, TB, etc. think is a good idea? If it's negotiable, it's negotiable; and maybe more successful organizations who seldom find themselves in those positions really do have better approaches.

My personal opinion, when a contract really is guaranteed, offset should be automatic. The player should be embarrassed to double dip for failing.

[Patler]

After the 2012 CBA made slotting iron clad, I can't believe its not baked into the contract terms.

Ya, had to have been an oversight, something they didn't even think of.

[pbmax]

Ya, had to have been an oversight, something they didn't even think of.

They also missed guarantees and claw backs I think.

[Guiness]

From the team's perspective, should the Packers be bound to follow a negotiable term in the same way that teams like Cleveland, Detroit, TB, etc. think is a good idea? If it's negotiable, it's negotiable; and maybe more successful organizations who seldom find themselves in those positions really do have better approaches.

My personal opinion, when a contract really is guaranteed, offset should be automatic. The player should be embarrassed to double dip for failing.

No, they are not bound, but if they don't follow the precedent, moving to terms more favorable to them (and less favorable to labour) without offering something in return, they are bound to get some push back. Which they are.

Taking "labour's" approach, maybe the team failed to provide the player with the necessary opportunity to succeed, and should be embarassed? See: Lions, Detroit. Collecting a (relatively) little extra money seems fair payment for the 2-3 years of your very short career the drafting team burned through.

[Patler]

No, they are not bound, but if they don't follow the precedent, moving to terms more favorable to them (and less favorable to labour) without offering something in return, they are bound to get some push back. Which they are.

Taking "labour's" approach, maybe the team failed to provide the player with the necessary opportunity to succeed, and should be embarassed? See: Lions, Detroit. Collecting a (relatively) little extra money seems fair payment for the 2-3 years of your very short career the drafting team burned through.

Of course there is pushback. I'm sure they expect it, no matter what they say publicly. However, I won't condemn them for doing it, as some seem to want to.

How many failed early 1st round picks. who are cut before their contract expires, go on to a decent career anywhere else? I also abhor golden parachutes in the corporate world.

[Guiness]

Of course there is pushback. I'm sure they expect it, no matter what they say publicly. However, I won't condemn them for doing it, as some seem to want to.

How many failed early 1st round picks. who are cut before their contract expires, go on to a decent career anywhere else? I also abhor golden parachutes in the corporate world.

Tim Couch! no, wait, Courtney Brown! no, wait, William Green! no, wait, Brady Quinn! no, wait, Brandon Weeden! no, wait Trent Richardson! no wait...Oh, nevermind.

Admittedly, it doesn't seem to happen a whole lot, I can't remember one. Still, I don't like the concept of offset language. If I get fired, I'm entitled to severance pay. If I got 6 weeks severance, should I have to pay it back if I get a new job 2 weeks later?

[Patler]

Tim Couch! no, wait, Courtney Brown! no, wait, William Green! no, wait, Brady Quinn! no, wait, Brandon Weeden! no, wait Trent Richardson! no wait...Oh, nevermind.

Admittedly, it doesn't seem to happen a whole lot, I can't remember one. Still, I don't like the concept of offset language. If I get fired, I'm entitled to severance pay. If I got 6 weeks severance, should I have to pay it back if I get a new job 2 weeks later?

Limited severance pay is one thing, years of guarantee are another. He doesn't lose anything when an offset applies, he gets all that he originally expected. He just doesn't get to double dip for having failed.

Besides, your severance pay, if of any length, is earned for service time. The first round flop generally flopped from the get-go (unless due to injury, like Courtney Brown), so it is hard to say he "earned" a double dip.

[Zool]

Respectfully, I see some of what you're seeing but he was a clear stud in college that made the players around him better. We'll see if that translates to the pros. I think his athleticism numbers are clearly a cut above many other linemen.


http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=7577

[Guiness]

Limited severance pay is one thing, years of guarantee are another. He doesn't lose anything when an offset applies, he gets all that he originally expected. He just doesn't get to double dip for having failed.

Besides, your severance pay, if of any length, is earned for service time. The first round flop generally flopped from the get-go (unless due to injury, like Courtney Brown), so it is hard to say he "earned" a double dip.

But if an employer was able to claw-back severance, the employee wouldn't lose anything, he'd get the pay he would've! There are differences, but a lot of similarities as well.

I personally got tossed by an employer because they made an bad decision. Hired an electrical engineer then found out they had no need and tried to fit me into a maintenance role. After moving towns, 8 months later found myself unemployed. Double-dipped for a bit, but sure didn't feel guilty about collecting the severance I did!

[pbmax]

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=7577

He's got it alright. Just a winner.

[call_me_ishmael]

http://nflcombineresults.com/playerpage.php?i=7577

I know people like to rip on me for saying Vince Young had "it". He did have "it", though. He was rookie of the year, 2x pro bowler, and a dark horse MVP candidate. Eventually he succumbed to some mental health and injury issues and his career went down hill in a hurry.

I don't think that takes away from the great things he did as a player and the phenomenal talent he was.

Given Joey Bosa's lack of medical or mental concerns (that we know of), I fail to see the comparison at this time.

BTW, I am sure someone could easily pull up instances where you're wrong about a player too. Sorry man. I was wrong about Vince Young being a sustained great player. His greatness was short lived due to injury and mental health.

[Radagast]

I am trying to understand why a San Diego Charger Rookie has a thread in the Green Bay Packers category on a Packers Forum ? :pc:

[Guiness]

I am trying to understand why a San Diego Charger Rookie has a thread in the Green Bay Packers category on a Packers Forum ? :pc:

Cuz it's the offseason?:duel:

[Radagast]

Cuz it's the offseason?:duel:

I see your "Cuz" and raise you a " What ? "

:duel:

[Patler]

I am trying to understand why a San Diego Charger Rookie has a thread in the Green Bay Packers category on a Packers Forum ? :pc:

Well... this is the only NFL area. Typically we have a lot of "other" threads running for around the league info, such as:

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?28561-The-2015-16-OFF-SEASON-NFL-Happenings-Thread

Generally, nobody gets their nose bent out of shape over the occasional specific, but non-Packer threads that come and go quickly from time to time, except of course for the occasional new poster who thinks they can make their mark by being a troublemaker. :wink::grin:

[Patler]

I am trying to understand why a San Diego Charger Rookie has a thread in the Green Bay Packers category on a Packers Forum ? :pc:

By the way, your style is very reminiscent of another poster who had several reincarnations here in the past. Not an accusation, just an observation.

[Upnorth]

On another unrelated note, anyone heard from woody?

[Rutnstrut]

Bosa will be a dud.

[smuggler]

I doubt it. Bosa will be a solid, but unspectacular player, and play for like 10 years before retiring to anonymity.

[Guiness]

PFT reporting still nothing happening, no talks or anything. This seems like such a lose-lose situation if they don't come to an agreement SOON. I think the team has more leverage because if both stand firm and he loses the season, he never gets the money back. The amount of egg on the GM's face for squandering a top 5 pick is not insignificant either though.

Gota love that they're selling his jersey at the NFL store! Didn't know they'd assigned him a number...

http://nflshop.frgimages.com/FFImage/thumb.aspx?i=/productImages%2f_2443000%2fff_2443501_full.jpg&w=400

[pbmax]

Well they are using the heavy canon today. Chargers threatening to withdraw offer in PR statement about how wonderful his contract is. Bosa's agent is fighting back on Twitter.

San Diego Chargers ‏@Chargers
Statement from the San Diego Chargers on defensive end Joey Bosa.

THERE ARE TWO DEAD GIVEAWAYS THAT THE CHARGERS ARE BULLSHITTING YOU IN THIS STATEMENT. SEE IF YOU AGREE.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CqpLoo0UsAAdRoA.jpg:large

Andrew Brandt @AndrewBrandt
People, Joey Bosa is not sitting out the year out of spite over some deferred money. The Chargers know that and are leveraging it.

Chris B. Brown ‏@smartfootball 46m46 minutes ago
Left unsaid is SD is trying to stick Bosa with a set of contractual terms no top 5 pick has agreed to post CBA

[pbmax]

Chargers friendly view: http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/2016/aug/24/bosa-not-want-to-be-charger/


Their initial offer was to pay Bosa, the third overall pick in the draft, about 60 percent of his signing bonus by Dec. 31 and the rest by mid-March. That was commensurate with what fourth pick Ezekiel Elliott got from the Dallas Cowboys but less upfront cash than what every other top-seven pick received.


Yes, Ayrault/Bosa has come off the offset language, but that was never going to be in play. Ayrault knew that. And, by the way, just two of this year’s other six top-seven picks do not have offset language.


Bosa's agent: http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/08/24/statement-from-joey-bosas-representatives/


We will say, that it is ironic that the team now takes issue with the timing of Joey’s arrival, since the Chargers unilaterally decided to remain silent for the first 14 days of training camp instead of replying in a timely fashion to the proposal we made on the eve of training camp on July 28th.


The Union Tribune article says AJ Smith got into these types of battles because he liked to do it. Claims Spanos is not of that tradition.

Does anyone know why the Mannings told the Chargers not to draft Eli?

[red]

chargers are a joke

He should have pulled an Eli. I don't know why anyone would want to go play for those shit bag clowns

[King Friday]

Respectfully, I see some of what you're seeing but he was a clear stud in college that made the players around him better. We'll see if that translates to the pros. I think his athleticism numbers are clearly a cut above many other linemen.

http://cdn1.thecomeback.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/94/2016/02/ESPN-Bosa-Watt.jpg

You forget to mention a pretty BIG item of note...

Watt weighed 290 at the combine.

Bosa weighed 269.

Still think they are equal?

[call_me_ishmael]

Well, JJ Watt is the best defender is the league, so I highly doubt Joey Bosa will turn out to be that. Their combine performance was very similar. They were both dominant players in college. I really like Joey Bosa and would take him in a second. Put a little weight on him and you have a poor man's JJ Watt at the 3-4 DE.

[Radagast]

For someone that has not even stepped onto a pro TC field , there sure is a lot of activity . The last time I saw so many guys jaws drop , Kathy Ireland was on the cover of Sports Illustrated .

[Patler]

Reported that he signed today.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/chargers/2016/08/29/joey-bosa-contract-san-diego-chargers/89549298/

[Patler]

Sign the contract, rook, and start showing you deserve it. Guys that hold out get hurt quite often.

Sure seems that way, doesn't it? Bosa is likely out this week due to a hamstring problem:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000696255/article/chargers-not-optimistic-joey-bosa-plays-week-1

[Patler]

.... and the hamstring continues to keep him on the sideline.
Bosa has been declared out for week 2, and they are saying it is doubtful he will practice the upcoming week, so is unlikely to play next week.
He has yet to even practice in pads.

[Freak Out]

Wow. Not a good way to start a career.

[pbmax]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 6h6 hours ago
Patriots TE Rob Gronkowski will not play today vs. Dolphins due to hamstring injury, per source. http://es.pn/2cmxhmz

Stupid contract holdouts.

[Joemailman]

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 6h6 hours ago
Patriots TE Rob Gronkowski will not play today vs. Dolphins due to hamstring injury, per source. http://es.pn/2cmxhmz

Stupid contract holdouts.

Doesn't this guy know he was a 1st round pick in fantasy football?

[Freak Out]

Has all this hammy talk jinxed the Pack? :)

[Joemailman]

Has all this hammy talk jinxed the Pack? :)

Burnett.

[Patler]

Burnett caught it from Matthews. It is highly contagious.

[call_me_ishmael]

Looking pretty damn dominant tonight. This young man is going to be one heck of a player.

[Pugger]

Looking pretty damn dominant tonight. This young man is going to be one heck of a player.

You beat me to the punch here. He looks like he's gonna be a good one.

[call_me_ishmael]

I would be surprised if he wasn't a multi-time pro bowler based on how dominant he was in college. He was the straw that stirred the drink for OSU - the best player on a star studded team.

[call_me_ishmael]

http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/11/16/nfl-san-diego-chargers-joey-bosa

I'm not the only one saying poor mans JJ Watt. This guy is going to be great if he keeps going on this path.

[call_me_ishmael]

Joey Bosa was hands down, unquestionably the best rookie in football this year. Joe Thomas is on record as saying is a premier pass rusher and the best rookie he's ever played against.

This one was simple. Joey Bosa will be the 2nd best 3-4 DE in the league in a year or two. I kind of have to laugh at this thread. I only watched OSU a handful of times at the most but it was clear he was the best player... he was double or triple teamed often and he was STILL a beast!

[Patler]

Joey Bosa was hands down, unquestionably the best rookie in football this year. Joe Thomas is on record as saying is a premier pass rusher and the best rookie he's ever played against.

This one was simple. Joey Bosa will be the 2nd best 3-4 DE in the league in a year or two. I kind of have to laugh at this thread. I only watched OSU a handful of times at the most but it was clear he was the best player... he was double or triple teamed often and he was STILL a beast!

I kind of have to laugh at you. You don't even understand what this thread was about.

The subject of this thread was the contract controversy that kept Bosa out of camp. It had nothing to do with his talent. At most, side issues were that rookies who miss camp often seem to be set back in their development, and players who miss camp because of contract disputes often seem to have injury issues. (I say "seem" because we have no data to substantiate impressions about either issue.) The vast majority of the posts have been on topic. You were the one who wanted to divert the topic to a discussion about Bosa's talent. Most of the posts ignored you.

Now you come back and demean the purpose of the thread because Bosa has had a good year even after double-clutching at the start???? Why, has the contract issue changed, or been resolved with respect to the next draft class?

The thread has always been more about the basic contract issue than it ever was about a discussion of the player's talent. For the most part, the specific player was irrelevant to the issue.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Joey Bosa was hands down, unquestionably the best rookie in football this year. Joe Thomas is on record as saying is a premier pass rusher and the best rookie he's ever played against.

This one was simple. Joey Bosa will be the 2nd best 3-4 DE in the league in a year or two. I kind of have to laugh at this thread. I only watched OSU a handful of times at the most but it was clear he was the best player... he was double or triple teamed often and he was STILL a beast!

Except for that pesky Ezekiel Elliot, you know, the rookie who's leading the league in rushing by a rather hefty amount. Oh yeah, and his rookie teammate, Prescott who is 3rd in the league in QB rating. Don't forget OL Jack Conklin who is one of the best T in the NFL (according to PFF). So other than those 3, I agree that Joey Bosa was hands down the best rookie in football this year.

[ThunderDan]

Yup, he won't even win Rookie of the Year.

[Guiness]

I kind of have to laugh at you. You don't even understand what this thread was about.


Exactly right (source: am OP)

[call_me_ishmael]

I kind of have to laugh at you. You don't even understand what this thread was about.

Sorry Patty, but perhaps you should review the off-topic posts discussing his potential, etc on page 1, 2 and 3 of this thread. There are numerous posts saying he'll be a bust, that he's selfish, that he's gonna be an average at best player, etc. Not ALL threads stay 100% on topic.

[Patler]

Sorry Patty, but perhaps you should review the off-topic posts discussing his potential, etc on page 1, 2 and 3 of this thread. There are numerous posts saying he'll be a bust, that he's selfish, that he's gonna be an average at best player, etc. Not ALL threads stay 100% on topic.

I don't need to review anything. I acknowledged there were a few such posts, as I said the following:

The vast majority of the posts have been on topic. You were the one who wanted to divert the topic to a discussion about Bosa's talent. Most of the posts ignored you.


Perhaps you should review the reason the thread was started, and what the majority of the posts are about. Do you dispute that the vast majority of posts are on topic, in spite of your effort to take it another direction?

....and now you come here and demean the thread in general.

[King Friday]

Overall, I would put the claim that he is UNQUESTIONABLY the best rookie in football this year as slightly more laughable than this thread.

That isn't to say that Bosa isn't worthy of being in the argument...but he's not head and shoulders above all other rookies.

[Fritz]

Since, as Patler pointed out, this thread's been mucked up, I'm going to go full bore and axe how that other safety that the Packers could've chosen instead of Clinton-Dix (the guy from Louisville, the heavy hitter) is doing so far in the NFL?

Lots of fans on this very site were pissed that Ted went for the "soft" pick once again, so I wonder how the tough guy is doing.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I believe you mean Calvin Pryor with the J-E-T-S. Was taken a few picks before Dix was.

All Pryor can do is help stop the run, has a whopping 2 INTs in nearly 3 seasons, was graded by Pro Football Focus as the 4th worst Safety in the league at the midway point last season.

This year it doesn't sound too good either. There's this gem from PFF about the Jets week 15 matchup against the Dolphins:

Calvin Pryor a liability. Pryor, the Jets former first-round safety was an absolute mess with his pursuit angles against the shifty Dolphins receivers. He started by overrunning a dig route to DeVante Parker on a key third down on the Dolphins first scoring drive. Then he fell on his face on yet another route coming across this middle, this time from Jarvis Landry, on a 31-yard catch and run on the Dolphins first scoring drive in the third quarter. Pryor capped it off by being unable to chase down Landry again running a slant across his face when he was playing middle of the field safety.

Pryor is not all that great. He's pretty much a JAG.

[Fritz]

Ted likes soft players!

[Zool]

Where is Vince Young lately. That guy has "it".