Josh Sitton.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Red drinks?

[Joemailman]

Red drinks?

Only after 5 o'clock.

http://dailyupvote.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/5oclock.jpg

[red]

Red drinks?

never

:glug:

[Patler]

McGinn certainly did a bitch-slap of Pete Dougherty. Dougherty had portrayed the Packer brain trust as cold, calm and cunning, decisively trimming the fat with Vince Lombardi leadership and vision. Dougherty also promoted the "something must have happened" baseless rumor as bonus oral servicing of his bosses, Ted & Mike.

I have come to see that Dougherty was partially right. Probably TT saw Sitton as a declining vet who was near the end in GB. And both McGinn & Dougherty agree that MM might have feared future tension in the locker room.

I think TT miscalculated on all counts. He didn't need to unload Sitton now.





And Dougherty slaps back. Maybe there was something that broke the camels back. Maybe they felt they had to take action:


I talked with an NFL source over the weekend who doesn’t work for the Packers or Sitton but was familiar with the dynamic that led to the left guard’s departure.

The source said Sitton at times was a fun and engaging presence, but he also was brash and highly opinionated. He openly disparaged personnel moves, coaching decisions and his teammates’ abilities in any and every setting at the Packers’ facilities, regardless of who was in earshot. He also could be argumentative in meetings and refused to do some blocking techniques and drills on the practice field.

The source said that while Sitton was at the top of his game, the Packers acquiesced. But as the 30-year-old’s play began to slip in the last year or so, in part because of his chronic back condition, the team felt less compelled to accommodate him. And when the coaching staff saw some of that behavior filtering to the younger linemen, the team parted ways.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2016/09/11/dougherty-packers-persevere-wthout-sitton/90187692/


This could be really entertiaining, dueling anonymous sources:
"My source said blah, blah."
"But MY source said this and that."

[Patler]

Giving the players and their agents a heads up removes uncertainty. The players would figure out the priority eventually. They might even harbor grudges if one player downplayed his progress.

But it also keeps the agents friendly, which also helps to keep the players steady. If you piss off the agent, then you give them a head start in finding their next contract.

Yup. I think it was N.F.P. that had an article from an agent a couple years ago discussing the characteristics of the teams agents like to deal with the most. He mentioned GB as a team, and Russ Ball specifically because you know where you are in the order. He said the reality is that on most teams one guy is responsible for all the significant contracts, basically anything other than minimum contracts, and they all have responsibilities in addition to contract negotiations. He said the agents, too, are quite busy representing a bunch of players on different teams. Half the battle in getting things done is getting the two working together at the same time. He said the Packers make that easy, you don't waste time when they aren't ready to deal with you yet, and when they are they focus on you. It's orderly.

Agents know that in fitting under a salary cap, they have to do things in certain orders. Players may think they should be the highest priority, but not everyone can be.

[pbmax]

And when the coaching staff saw some of that behavior filtering to the younger linemen, the team parted ways.


McCarthy has made that stand before.

[Patler]

McCarthy has made that stand before.

Just to be clear, the statement you quoted from my post was made by Dougherty, not me.

[pbmax]

Yes, bad editing from me.




And when the coaching staff saw some of that behavior filtering to the younger linemen, the team parted ways.
McCarthy has made that stand before.

[Patler]

Yes, bad editing from me.


McCarthy has made that stand before.

I had a vague recollection of something like that, and have been trying to remember who was involved. Was it DL?

[texaspackerbacker]

So you think replacing Josh Sitton with Lane Taylor should improve things?

Well, Taylor did at least marginally decent, and the Packers O Line in general was about the same as always. And I don't know how Sitton did for the Bears, but it wasn't enough to keep them from losing, as usual. I guess those are the two bottom lines - same ol' same ol'. Like McCarthy said and I repeated several times, O Line is not that big a priority in terms of difference-making and money-spending.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Well, Taylor did at least marginally decent, and the Packers O Line in general was about the same as always. And I don't know how Sitton did for the Bears, but it wasn't enough to keep them from losing, as usual. I guess those are the two bottom lines - same ol' same ol'. Like McCarthy said and I repeated several times, O Line is not that big a priority in terms of difference-making and money-spending.Yeah, you said as well that this game was going to be a cakewalk. So don't puff out that chest too far, Mr. Pseudo Nostradamus. LOL

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, you said as well that this game was going to be a cakewalk. So don't puff out that chest too far, Mr. Pseudo Nostradamus. LOL

It shoulda been hahahaha. Oh well, I'll take one out of two, and fall back on "a win is a win is a win" in the other one.

[SkinBasket]

Holy fucking shit are we screwed! Rodgers got chased, harassed, beaten and hammered relentlessly yesterday without good ol' Josh Sitton there to protect him, and Lacy couldn't gain an inch on the ground! Looks like a 2 win season fellas.

All because of Ted, and his intentional, poorly calculated, egomaniacle, sinister, satan worshipping personnel move. Motherfucker.

[Smidgeon]

Holy fucking shit are we screwed! Rodgers got chased, harassed, beaten and hammered relentlessly yesterday without good ol' Josh Sitton there to protect him, and Lacy couldn't gain an inch on the ground! Looks like a 2 win season fellas.

All because of Ted, and his intentional, poorly calculated, egomaniacle, sinister, satan worshipping personnel move. Motherfucker.

Post more.

[SkinBasket]

Post more.

Maybe. Now there's something real to post about, it's more interesting.

[hoosier]

The source said Sitton at times was a fun and engaging presence, but he also was brash and highly opinionated. He openly disparaged personnel moves, coaching decisions and his teammates’ abilities in any and every setting at the Packers’ facilities, regardless of who was in earshot. He also could be argumentative in meetings and refused to do some blocking techniques and drills on the practice field.

This is the first description I've seen of behavior that comes close to the cancer threshold. I suppose it's always possible that the source isn't conveying important context, but if this is accurate it's not hard to see why GB would want him out.

[Harlan Huckleby]

He's been with the team for 8 years. His teammates are oblivious to this cancer. The cancer suddenly metastasized on cutdown day, to the point where it was necessary to weaken the roster? People will believe what they want to believe.

[Patler]

This is the first description I've seen of behavior that comes close to the cancer threshold. I suppose it's always possible that the source isn't conveying important context, but if this is accurate it's not hard to see why GB would want him out.

Especially with the suggestion by the source that younger players were starting to mimic him.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Especially with the suggestion by the source that younger players were starting to mimic him.

The "source", who is not affiliated with the Packers, knows more than the players themselves who have spoken out? Knows more than TT, who called Sitton a "good teammate"?

People believe what they want to believe.

[Patler]

The "source", who is not affiliated with the Packers, knows more than the players themselves who have spoken out?

People believe what they want to believe.

Goes both ways. There is a lot to interpret in what players did say and not say.

As with most "investigations" there are facts, implications, historical evidence and context. The truth generally lies in the explanation that is consistent the most of the variables

[Harlan Huckleby]

Lots of information has come out recently about Sitton's behavior and personality. It's a very consistent picture, he is the gruff, plain-spoken guy who we've seen for 8 years. Bottom line is he is the good teammate that TT testified to, he cares about winning first and foremost.


I do think it is credible that MM perceived he could become a problem in the future. I doubt that was a primary consideration, but judge for yourself.

[Patler]

He's been with the team for 8 years. His teammates are oblivious to this cancer. The cancer suddenly metastasized on cutdown day, to the point where it was necessary to weaken the roster? People will believe what they want to believe.

Actually, there is a lot of consistency even from what his team mates and former team mates said and talked around without saying.

The alternative is to believe that for no reason at all, all of a sudden TT paniced (McGinn's suggestion) and acted totally contrary to what we have seen him do for the last 11 years.

[pbmax]

I had a vague recollection of something like that, and have been trying to remember who was involved. Was it DL?

I was just referring to Favre. But are you suggesting that Daryl Lasagna was a potential malcontent?

[pbmax]

Got it. I am getting old. Dougherty's source would be McCarthy's agent.

I don't know why that took so long to figure out.

[Patler]

Lots of information has come out recently about Sitton's behavior and personality. It's a very consistent picture, he is the gruff, plain-spoken guy who we've seen for 8 years. Bottom line is he is the good teammate that TT testified to, he cares about winning first and foremost.


I do think it is credible that MM perceived he could become a problem in the future. I doubt that was a primary consideration, but judge for yourself.

If Dougherty is correct, that in this camp they saw the negative aspects of Sitton being copied by younger players, it might have been a line in the sand for the coaches.

It has seemed to me since it happened, that this had more the feel of a coaches desire than a GM's decision.

[Patler]

I was just referring to Favre. But are you suggesting that Daryl Lasagna was a potential malcontent?

Danny? Now let's not impugn that hard working soul! He has managed to hang around and collect pay checks as a football player for most of 8 years, even make it to being a regular starter in the NFL, yet still be a restricted free agent at age 31. You have to admire that.

[RashanGary]

I'm the biggest conspiracy kook you'll ever meet when it comes to the government and banking industry, but there is no motivation for TT to do anything but win.

Look the way the line played so far. TT got rid of Sitton because with the team he has right now, he can get more for his money else where. And it would have cost a developmental roster spot.

It's a young mans game, a cold business and the Packers have solid ol depth. I don't think it's as perplexing as y'all are making it out. And TT has balls of steel. He'll move on from Brett Favre before he has to, or josh Sitton. If he likes is young guy, you're gone. Period.

[Patler]

I'm the biggest conspiracy kook you'll ever meet when it comes to the government and banking industry, but there is no motivation for TT to do anything but win.

Look the way the line played so far. TT got rid of Sitton because with the team he has right now, he can get more for his money else where. And it would have cost a developmental roster spot.

It's a young mans game, a cold business and the Packers have solid ol depth. I don't think it's as perplexing as y'all are making it out. And TT has balls of steel. He'll move on from Brett Favre before he has to, or josh Sitton. If he likes is young guy, you're gone. Period.

I agree, except that he typically does those things very, very early in the off season, or lets the player play out his contract and then he collects the draft pick compensation. Doing this last-minute as he did is not very TT-like at all.

[pbmax]

Thompson might subscribe to Wolf's promise to Holmgren:

I'll never stick you with a player you do not want.

[red]

i like how when a guy who "hates the packers" and doesn't toe the company line comes out with a story, everyone questions the unnamed sources , or him for just being nagative and trying to stir shit up

but when a guy who clearly sucks at the meat stick of the team at every stop uses unnamed sources to paint the complete opposite picture, everyone is will to follow him blindly and believe every word he says

[pbmax]

i like how when a guy who "hates the packers" and doesn't toe the company line comes out with a story, everyone questions the unnamed sources , or him for just being nagative and trying to stir shit up

but when a guy who clearly sucks at the meat stick of the team at every stop uses unnamed sources to paint the complete opposite picture, everyone is will to follow him blindly and believe every word he says

I don't like unnamed sources from either guy unless I can figure out who they are. I think its pretty obvious who Dougherty's is.

McGinn's source is far less clear AND suggested the removal of Sitton was flubbed. I can buy that the trade attempt didn't pan out well. But that doesn't explain WHY they wanted to trade him. Dougherty's source comes closer to filling in the key blank, though its still a team source, obviously.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Dougherty's source comes closer to filling in the key blank, though its still a team source, obviously.

Dougherty says his source is not connected with the team.

[pbmax]

Dougherty says his source is not connected with the team.

OK. But is McCarthy's agent working for the team?

He is connected to the Head Coach. That's a hair easily split.

But even if I am wrong, its got to be an agent of one of the coaches or front office types. Who else would know the inner workings of the team?

[red]

well, whats fat mikes agent gonna say?

"my client is a fat, thin skinned vagina, who cant handle strong willed players?"

cause thats what it sure looks like to me

[red]

But even if I am wrong, its got to be an agent of one of the coaches or front office types. Who else would know the inner workings of the team?

then with the vast crackdown the team has on leaks, the team should be hunting down this source and firing the person they work for

unless of course the "source" is really just "leaking" the story the team wants to tell

then we're just back to the reporter being a mouthpiece for the team, not the fans

[gbgary]

Dougherty says his source is not connected with the team.

someone's sister?

the last thing i read on the haha/sitton situation said it couldn't be verified. why put it out there if it can't be verified.

[King Friday]

I agree, except that he typically does those things very, very early in the off season, or lets the player play out his contract and then he collects the draft pick compensation. Doing this last-minute as he did is not very TT-like at all.

Yep. To let a guy walk who had the street value to sign a $7M/yr contract somewhere is crazy. While I think you can talk yourself into saying that Thompson made the best choice for the LONG TERM well being of the franchise, it is also safe to say that he made at least a couple mistakes along the way on this one for it to blow up at the end as it did.

[hoosier]

If Sitton had a $7M street value then why wouldn't anyone offer even a conditional 7th for him? Hell, why didn't someone offer "past considerations" for him, which is what Wolf once got when he traded one of his castoffs to Oakland so that a rival wouldn't sign him? The they-were-going-to-release-him-anyway logic is no logic at all, because if more than one team wants him they're not both going to be able to sign him. Evidently there was not a strong market for Sitton.

[hoosier]

He's been with the team for 8 years. His teammates are oblivious to this cancer. The cancer suddenly metastasized on cutdown day, to the point where it was necessary to weaken the roster? People will believe what they want to believe.

They were so oblivious to it that the younger ones were starting to internalize it, like a second nature. Why on cutdown day? I can think of three possible reasons. Something happened on the order of a last straw. They were trying to trade him and found no takers and finally had to give up. Or they were holding onto him long enough that some teams would have already committed and would have a harder time competing for him on the FA market. The last possibility is the most devious and therefore the most interesting.

[Joemailman]

I'm pretty sure there are only 2 GM's with giant balls of steel to make a move like this.

Bellichek and Thompson



Yep. Just ask Nick Mangold.

[vince]

I was at work today ripping through some tweets taking a short respite and I ran across this tweet.


Jordan Schultz (@Schultz_Report) tweeted at 4:06 PM on Mon, Sep 12, 2016:
Sources inside the Packers locker room tell me the Josh Sitton situation was "combustible at best." A confrontation w/Clinton-Dix got racial
(https://twitter.com/Schultz_Report/status/775440516674498560?s=09)
I emailed it to my personal address so I wouldn't have to go searching for it later in case I get a chance to post it. I came back to it tonight and the tweet has been deleted.

I read this also happened to Schefter's tweet last week about the same subject.

I believe the Packers are actively covering up any sniff of non-football related controversy about Sitton so it doesn't escalate into a bigger, possibly uncontrollable distraction for this season. They are being purposely vague and willing to allow speculation derogatory towards them about how this is a financial decision (it's not), a question of Sitton's back or anything else EXCEPT the reason(s) he was cut and that has to do with keeping the team together - not divided - for the season at hand, which as Dougherty's source said Sitton had threatened to do through his outspoken and disparaging remarks about coaching and/or other players.

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://bearswire.usatoday.com/2016/09/11/studs-and-duds-from-chicago-bears-23-14-loss-to-houston-texans/

Sitton cited as one of two studs for Bears Sunday

[pbmax]

They were so oblivious to it that the younger ones were starting to internalize it, like a second nature. Why on cutdown day? I can think of three possible reasons. Something happened on the order of a last straw. They were trying to trade him and found no takers and finally had to give up. Or they were holding onto him long enough that some teams would have already committed and would have a harder time competing for him on the FA market. The last possibility is the most devious and therefore the most interesting.

You can put points one and two together. They were aware of it, but thought it could be handled as it was handled for 8 years.

Until this camp showed that the other lineman were truly following his lead. In this scenario, Sitton does nothing different. One of his buddies does.

[pbmax]

I was at work today ripping through some tweets taking a short respite and I ran across this tweet.


I emailed it to my personal address so I wouldn't have to go searching for it later in case I get a chance to post it. I came back to it tonight and the tweet has been deleted.

I read this also happened to Schefter's tweet last week about the same subject.

I believe the Packers are actively covering up any sniff of non-football related controversy about Sitton so it doesn't escalate into a bigger, possibly uncontrollable distraction for this season. They are being purposely vague and willing to allow speculation derogatory towards them about how this is a financial decision (it's not), a question of Sitton's back or anything else EXCEPT the reason(s) he was cut and that has to do with keeping the team together - not divided - for the season at hand, which as Dougherty's source said Sitton had threatened to do through his outspoken and disparaging remarks about coaching and/or other players.

No snark: Who is Jordan Schultz?

Can you pass along the link that Adam Schefter deleted a report/Tweet?

Clinton Dix got into an argument with another defender last year on the sideline, so its not atypical for him to react. But still pretty sketchy.

[vince]

Jordan Schultz is a sports reporter for the Huffington Post.

The Schefter tweet was ascerted by a poster on another board who indicated he saw it and then it was gone. I didn't see that one, but the claim is consistent with this one.

I see Gary referred to this same situation above so it's been asserted prior to this.

[vince]

There's not going to be definitive proof of anything. The Packers and all parties involved in any alleged incidents have ample motivation to sweep it under the rug, deny, deny, deny, and hopefully get past it as quickly as possible. There will always be plausible deniability so everyone can continue to believe what they are predisposed to believing and the world will move right along.

I just think it's the most logical and likely situation based on everything we know about the parties involved and the facts that we do know about Sitton's release.

[pbmax]

I dunno. The HaHa rumor just seems like a slightly more logical proposal on the Barrington rumor. HaHa had a public confrontation with a teammate. Makes it immediately more believable.

[red]

I dunno. The HaHa rumor just seems like a slightly more logical proposal on the Barrington rumor. HaHa had a public confrontation with a teammate. Makes it immediately more believable.

thats what i was thinking, the haha deal sounds just like the one from last week about barrington

and why wouldnt haha get punished? if it was just one sided why would guys like daniels and TT call him a good guy?

[vince]

I didn't see anything credibly sourced about Barrington, just speculation. There was Chmura, Schultz, supposedly Schefter sourcing some "sensitive" incident, and multiple reports about his general outspoken, opinionated and divisive nature that either was or threatened to spill over to undermine team unity.

As to why people on or associated with the team would try to divert attention away from controversy- I'd say that's easy to understand.

Again, I realize that these allegations are speculative and unproven and what we know for sure doesn't corroborate them. I personally don't see Sitton getting cut at the 11th hour like he did happening based on what we do know.

[Patler]

thats what i was thinking, the haha deal sounds just like the one from last week about barrington

and why wouldnt haha get punished? if it was just one sided why would guys like daniels and TT call him a good guy?

I think it was Wilde who said the rumor was that the incident involved Barrington, Dix and a third player he didn't name. He said Dix denied it, he couldn't reach Barrington, and the third player denied that it ever happened, say if it had happened the world would have known about it because he would have beaten the crap out of Sitton for saying/doing it. (Does that sound a little like something Mike Daniels would say? :-))

[Pugger]

I agree, except that he typically does those things very, very early in the off season, or lets the player play out his contract and then he collects the draft pick compensation. Doing this last-minute as he did is not very TT-like at all.

I know I'm repeating myself but I find it perplexing Ted couldn't find one GM willing to make a deal for Josh.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I think this is the longest non-Favre thread we've had for a player.

[pbmax]

I think it was Wilde who said the rumor was that the incident involved Barrington, Dix and a third player he didn't name. He said Dix denied it, he couldn't reach Barrington, and the third player denied that it ever happened, say if it had happened the world would have known about it because he would have beaten the crap out of Sitton for saying/doing it. (Does that sound a little like something Mike Daniels would say? :-))

I thought Wilde said Sitton denied it outright?

[hoosier]

Who did HCD get into it with last year? Was that the shouting/pushing match on the sidelines with Raji and Peppers?

[vince]

I think it was Wilde who said the rumor was that the incident involved Barrington, Dix and a third player he didn't name. He said Dix denied it, he couldn't reach Barrington, and the third player denied that it ever happened, say if it had happened the world would have known about it because he would have beaten the crap out of Sitton for saying/doing it. (Does that sound a little like something Mike Daniels would say? :-))I hadn't heard that. That connects some big (unverified) dots.

[Patler]

I think it was Wilde who said the rumor was that the incident involved Barrington, Dix and a third player he didn't name. He said Dix denied it, he couldn't reach Barrington, and the third player denied that it ever happened, say if it had happened the world would have known about it because he would have beaten the crap out of Sitton for saying/doing it. (Does that sound a little like something Mike Daniels would say? :-))


I thought Wilde said Sitton denied it outright?

Yup, just as he said Dix denied it and the player Wilde did not mention by name. I did not bring up his Wilde's statement about his discussion with Sitton, since 2 of the other 3 denied it, too. Wilde also reported that Sitton told him that he (Sitton) had called the players mentioned in the rumors and asked if he had said something that offended them, and Sitton said all assured him that he had not.

[Patler]

I hadn't heard that. That connects some big (unverified) dots.

But the unverified dots lead to nothing, because all players involved deny it. However, it does wrap several loose ends into a single rumor. :-)

[hoosier]

The thing is, I don't think you really need the racialized confrontation to explain this. Sitton was outspoken and could get pissy when things weren't going well, sometimes crossing the boundary into defiance. Those traits were starting to show up in some unnamed younger OLs. And Sitton himself would appear to be on the downward slope of his career. This conjuncture of factors is enough to explain his release.

[Patler]

The thing is, I don't think you really need the racialized confrontation to explain this. Sitton was outspoken and could get pissy when things weren't going well, sometimes crossing the boundary into defiance. Those traits were starting to show up in some unnamed younger OLs. And Sitton himself would appear to be on the downward slope of his career. This conjuncture of factors is enough to explain his release.

I agree.

[Harlan Huckleby]

And Sitton himself would appear to be on the downward slope of his career.

Ya, but I wonder if TT guessed wrong on this. Remember, the controversy is only about THIS year. Nobody much cared about Sitton going FA next spring.
The USA TODAY article I linked to earlier claims that Sitton was outstanding in his first game as a Bear. He's 30, a prime year for an offensive lineman.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Screw these damn multi-millionaire prima donnas! And the NFL too, for that matter. I stay a Packer fan despite all this salary crap. I just shelled out a couple hundred retirement bucks for the NFL Sunday Ticket. Maybe I'm the fool. :bang:

[hoosier]

Ya, but I wonder if TT guessed wrong on this. Remember, the controversy is only about THIS year. Nobody much cared about Sitton going FA next spring.
The USA TODAY article I linked to earlier claims that Sitton was outstanding in his first game as a Bear. He's 30, a prime year for an offensive lineman.

I don't know, although the Bears game was on here (damned Fibs) I could not bear to watch it so I missed Sitton's performance. Was the USA article taken from the Tribune? In any case, whether or not Sitton was outstanding yesterday doesn't matter because: (1) with his injury history he's probably not going to be outstanding for the entire year; (2) he never practices, which probably counts as a big minus for MM, who seems to value the number of reps this unit can get together; (3) by cutting Sitton now rather than waiting you both remove whatever negative influence he had on your younger linemen and you give someone or someones a head-start on development, which will be a plus when next year rolls around. One thing about TT is that he never ever seems to go into absolute must win now mode; for better or worse he's always thinking about how decisions made now will affect the future. He's the anti-Sherman.

[vince]

The thing is, I don't think you really need the racialized confrontation to explain this. Sitton was outspoken and could get pissy when things weren't going well, sometimes crossing the boundary into defiance. Those traits were starting to show up in some unnamed younger OLs. And Sitton himself would appear to be on the downward slope of his career. This conjuncture of factors is enough to explain his release.
I agree with that too. It would seem to be a bit more manageable though than if direct conflict occurred. I fully grant that to the extent there was some smoke, whatever fire there was smoldered at best and was stomped on aggressively.

[red]

it kinda seems obvious that we had to cut sitton so we could make our average LT the 4th highest paid LT in the NFL

we were just saying 2 days ago that 8 to 10 million a year would be too much for him. 8 would put him in the top 15 and 10 would put him in the top 10

i suppose we're probably about ready to give tretter 8-9 million per year too

and langs probably going to get what sitton got if not more

[pbmax]

it kinda seems obvious that we had to cut sitton so we could make our average LT the 4th highest paid LT in the NFL

we were just saying 2 days ago that 8 to 10 million a year would be too much for him. 8 would put him in the top 15 and 10 would put him in the top 10

i suppose we're probably about ready to give tretter 8-9 million per year too

and langs probably going to get what sitton got if not more

What are the numbers for Top centers and guards?

[red]

What are the numbers for Top centers and guards?

thats what i based those on

let me go check

[pbmax]

it kinda seems obvious that we had to cut sitton so we could make our average LT the 4th highest paid LT in the NFL

we were just saying 2 days ago that 8 to 10 million a year would be too much for him. 8 would put him in the top 15 and 10 would put him in the top 10

i suppose we're probably about ready to give tretter 8-9 million per year too

and langs probably going to get what sitton got if not more

JustinH made a good point, because this is an extension of his current deal, he will average $10 mil per year for those 5 years. So he is getting Top 10 money, not Top 5.

Plus all numbers so far are the hyped agent top line numbers. I bet the Packers are protected in this.

[red]

3 guards make over 10 million a year

guards 4,5,6,7 are around 8 million

8,9,10 are around 7 mill

11-15 are 6.6 million to 5.3 million

centers

the top 5 make between 8.8 and 9.4 million

#6 makes 8.3

7 and 8 make about 7.5

9 and 10 are around 6.3

[red]

JustinH made a good point, because this is an extension of his current deal, he will average $10 mil per year for those 5 years. So he is getting Top 10 money, not Top 5.

Plus all numbers so far are the hyped agent top line numbers. I bet the Packers are protected in this.

yeah that extra year helps a bit. 12 million would be nuts, 10 million is just a lot

he's still overpaid IMO, but it doesn't seem as bad when you factor in that its actually 50 million over 5 years, not 4

[red]

so a quick rough guess has tretter at 6.5 to 9 million probably

and lang maybe at 7-8 maybe

add in bahks 10, and bulagas 7 or so. thats a ton of money for the o-line

like i said somewhere on here, we could let lang and bulaga go, or all 3 if tretter costs that much too

then we're back to square one and rebuilding the line

[Patler]

yeah that extra year helps a bit. 12 million would be nuts, 10 million is just a lot

he's still overpaid IMO, but it doesn't seem as bad when you factor in that its actually 50 million over 5 years, not 4

You probably have to include the $1.7M he was scheduled to get this year anyway. The 50-whatever million is probably in addition to that. It often is.

[Joemailman]

so a quick rough guess has tretter at 6.5 to 9 million probably

and lang maybe at 7-8 maybe

add in bahks 10, and bulagas 7 or so. thats a ton of money for the o-line

like i said somewhere on here, we could let lang and bulaga go, or all 3 if tretter costs that much too

then we're back to square one and rebuilding the line

7 million would make Tretter the 9th highest paid Center. 9 million would put him only behind Frederick. I don't think he's done anything yet to command that kind of money.

Lang at 7-8 is probably about right. That would put him somewhere between 5-10 among Guards.

I

[HarveyWallbangers]

so a quick rough guess has tretter at 6.5 to 9 million probably

and lang maybe at 7-8 maybe

add in bahks 10, and bulagas 7 or so. thats a ton of money for the o-line

like i said somewhere on here, we could let lang and bulaga go, or all 3 if tretter costs that much too

then we're back to square one and rebuilding the line

They were going to have to rebuild the OL either way. They made the decision that they liked Bahk quite a bit more than Sitton, and the money they saved by cutting Sitton did help to resign Bahk. In that respect I can't say that I blame them. A lot rides on Taylor. If he turns out to be solid, it's a good decision. It would have allowed them to retain their good, young LT and have an affordable option at LG. It gives them options too. They could resign Tretter or Lang or they can kick Bulaga inside.

[Joemailman]

They didn't use a 2nd and 4th round pick on Spriggs for him to be a backup. Gotta believe he'll be the RT. That would mean 1 of 4 things:

Bulaga is gone
Lang is gone and Bulaga moves to RG
Bulaga moves to LG, Lang stays at RG and Taylor becomes backup.
Lang is gone, Bulaga moves to LG and Taylor moves to RG.

[Fritz]

Seems to me they want to re-up Tretter. He's versatile and talented. So I think they'll go after him, then move to the defensive side of the ball to see if Perry and/or Jones is worth locking up. If they sign one or both, then they can use any chump change to see if Lang will bite.

[vince]

A lot of options. It's too early for me to have much of an opinion yet. It would be a ton of money being spent on the o-line but I think I'd rather see them sign Tretter and Lang than Tretter and Lacy. There's no clear succession plan behind Lacy other than Starks for another year and a bunch of questions but I'd still prefer to keep the line solid and get a RB in the draft if the UDFA's don't develop. Homer Alert: I think both Pressley and Don Jackson have a chance next year. Pressley has decent size and obviously can fly and I liked Jackson better than Burks going into camp. He's a bit undersized but that dude runs with some attitude.

[run pMc]

They didn't use a 2nd and 4th round pick on Spriggs for him to be a backup. Gotta believe he'll be the RT. That would mean 1 of 4 things:

Bulaga is gone
Lang is gone and Bulaga moves to RG
Bulaga moves to LG, Lang stays at RG and Taylor becomes backup.
Lang is gone, Bulaga moves to LG and Taylor moves to RG.

I don't think Bulaga has ever played a full season. I don't know that they move him inside either. He seems like a good fit at RT to me. If they sign Tretter, where do they play him and Linsley? Can Tretter take over for Lang at LG?

[Maxie the Taxi]

A lot of options. It's too early for me to have much of an opinion yet. It would be a ton of money being spent on the o-line but I think I'd rather see them sign Tretter and Lang than Tretter and Lacy. There's no clear succession plan behind Lacy other than Starks for another year and a bunch of questions but I'd still prefer to keep the line solid and get a RB in the draft if the UDFA's don't develop. Homer Alert: I think both Pressley and Don Jackson have a chance next year. Pressley has decent size and obviously can fly and I liked Jackson better than Burks going into camp. He's a bit undersized but that dude runs with some attitude.Vince, wasn't it you and me who were going nuts wanting TT to draft David Johnson a year or two back? Man, if he were in green and gold now the future would look real good. He played lights out in Week One.

[vince]

Vince, wasn't it you and me who were going nuts wanting TT to draft David Johnson a year or two back? Man, if he were in green and gold now the future would look real good. He played lights out in Week One.
Yeah I really liked him the 3rd or 4th as I recall. I think he went in the 3rd before the Packers pick - and he's better than we thought he'd be Maxie. What a stud.

[beveaux1]

Why do we think we wouldn't leave Bulaga at RT where he was a first round pick? Seems to me that Spriggs will have to earn a spot. Backup tackle appears to be his best position. He'll get in a few games at tackle when Bulaga inevitably goes down.

[vince]

I think you throw draft slots out the window at this point and get your best line on the field. That may be with Spriggs at RT who's probably more nimble and long though not as strong (prototypical Tackle) as Bulaga at this stage, who's knees maybe will project him inside at some point, but that'll play itself out in good time. As you say beveaux Spriggs needs to develop and has a lot to prove yet. I think he has the tools and will develop into a starting Tackle.

[pbmax]

Bulaga has played all 16 games once, that was his rookie year where he had 12 starts in place of Tauscher.

Last year he missed four games (2015) and the year before that (2014) he missed one.

[pbmax]

The first significant clue emerges about why Sitton was cut late:


“It was interesting. It was about a two-week long process, which was mind-boggling to me considering what I thought we had to get done,” Bakhtiari said in an interview on ESPN Wisconsin’s “Wilde & Tausch” that is set to air this morning. “But I’m very fortunate that the Packers were able to work with me (and we) were able to get it done and we were able to sign it the night before the game.”

He signed the deal Saturday the 10th. Two weeks before that is August 27th. That is one week before Sitton was cut and according to Bob McGinn, when the Packers realized they would need to do something.

https://t.co/am4iUCggzI

[Patler]

Bulaga has played all 16 games once, that was his rookie year where he had 12 starts in place of Tauscher.

Last year he missed four games (2015) and the year before that (2014) he missed one.

Even as a rookie, Bulaga was hampered by injuries. He was getting worked at LG with the starters and looked to have a real shot at replacing Colledge in TC, and then hurt his hip the last 10 days or so and missed the final exhibition game. As a result MM stayed with Colledge.

[Harlan Huckleby]

bump

this topic needs further discussion and speculation

[hoosier]

TT was right to let Rivera go but should have tried to find a way to keep Wahle. Everything went downhill after Wahle left.

[Joemailman]

TT was right to let Rivera go but should have tried to find a way to keep Wahle. Everything went downhill after Wahle left.

Wahle had his issues with Sherman, and stated that money wasn't the only reason he left. I don't think TT could have kept Wahle unless he was going to immediately fire Sherman. History would suggest maybe he should have done that, but that would have been a tough call. Sherman was a popular coach who had never had a losing season.

[Fritz]

Goddammit, If Lee had followed up after Manassas and chased the Union Army down, everything would be different now.

[Joemailman]

Nothing like a trip down memory lane.

[hoosier]

Aaron Taylor, Adam Timmerman; Marco Rivera, Mike Wahle; Josh Sitton, TJ Lang. Departed guards seem to travel in pairs.

[King Friday]

Aaron Taylor, Adam Timmerman; Marco Rivera, Mike Wahle; Josh Sitton, TJ Lang. Departed guards seem to travel in pairs.

And most did not perform at a high level for too long after they left Green Bay. Timmerman was the only guy who had more than 1-2 good years, if I recall...but he was also considerably younger than most of the other guys too.

Signing 30 year old guards to any kind of free agency deal is MORONIC.

[pbmax]

Zimmerman got a nice second contract from the Rams while the Packers were juggling some big contracts at the end of the Super Bowl run. He left early compared to most successful Packer draft picks.

Though Wolf didn't consider Guard to be like DE/QB/CB necessities either. He went through a lot of retreads before finding Timmerman.

[Pugger]

And most did not perform at a high level for too long after they left Green Bay. Timmerman was the only guy who had more than 1-2 good years, if I recall...but he was also considerably younger than most of the other guys too.

Signing 30 year old guards to any kind of free agency deal is MORONIC.

Sitton played well for Chicago but for how much longer? Doesn't he have back issues?

[pbmax]

Sitton played well for Chicago but for how much longer? Doesn't he have back issues?

He got injured again and missed a few games.

[Joemailman]

When you say fuck off to one of your best O-lineman, you are saying fuck off to your QB. i sure hope Hundley is ready to play, because TT sure as fuck doesn't care about the health of Rodgers.

Hundley didn't play. And with Lang gone, he probably won't play again.

[Bretsky]

He got injured again and missed a few games.


I think he missed two games

And he was very good after

[pbmax]

I think he missed two games

And he was very good after

That knee injury isn't going to help him stay healthy. He's been collecting problems the last few years.

[Zool]

That knee injury isn't going to help him stay healthy. He's been collecting problems the last few years.

Last year was probably 1 year too early to let go of Sitton, but can you imagine letting Sitton and Lang go in the same offseason?

[beveaux1]

I think the 4 most undervalued positions in TTs NFL are G, ILB, RB, and maybe S. Although I think we will pay to keep our present safeties.

[BZnDallas]

I think the 4 most undervalued positions in TTs NFL are G, ILB, RB, and maybe S. Although I think we will pay to keep our present safeties.

Can't pay everybody. Gotta draw the line somewhere. At least we have a GM that isn't wishy washy. He does what he says.