Josh Sitton.

[Harlan Huckleby]

No way. It can't be.

[HarveyWallbangers]

This is very strange.

[vince]

Strange indeed. Recently got married. Lost weight to be more available. He has to be physically breaking down.


I'm told it wasn't contract related, but until I hear something definitive everything is in play.
by Tom Silverstein 2:00 PM

I was told that it was not injury related either.
by Tom Silverstein 2:01 PM

[Harlan Huckleby]

PEDs?

It's not like the Packers have tons of talent at guard, even if they add one more thru trade.

[vince]

I guess Taylor's going to make the squad then. That's one major downgrade.

[Harlan Huckleby]

No way to spin this other than a miserable development.

[vince]

http://nfltraderumors.co/breaking-packers-planning-cut-pro-bowl-g-josh-sitton-cant-trade/

Sitton’s agent, Jack Reale, tells Josina Anderson of his client’s impending release: “I’m very optimistic of his prospects for playing for a number of additional years. He’s coming off of maybe his best camp in the last four years. He’s lighter, and he is in better shape. He is coming off of a Pro Bowl season and he just turned 30. I think he’s got lots left. I think all the teams that he has been playing against for the last several years are certainly aware of that and certainly teams within their division. So we will see what happens.”

[Harlan Huckleby]

Silverstein suggests Barclay may be the starting guard.

Fuck me, fuck me hard.

I'm waiting for the announcement that Mike Daniels has rickets, is retiring. The day is young.

[Patler]

This makes sense only if they saw a significant drop off in his performance in camp. They haven't hesitated in the past to play guys through the ends of their contracts, even if they didn't have intentions to resign them. There was talk last year that he wasn't the same player he had been, and even ignoring the one game at tackle he had given up more pressures than since early in his career, and he gave up a couple sacks at guard for the first time in a couple years. Did they see a continued deterioration?

Odd, to say the least.

[vince]

Josh Sitton @jsitton71
@Uber is pretty awesome. Can't wait to use it in Seattle!

[vince]

Here's what I know about Sitton: They made it clear to him that they were working on extensions for the young guys first. His deal was going to have to wait. Not sure if he expressed displeasure and they decided to part ways or what.
by Tom Silverstein 2:58 PM

[esoxx]

Assuming today is April 1st.

[pbmax]

Linsley healthy, slide he or Tretter over?

How is it that they timed cut down day and the Badger opening at LAMBEAU!

Too much. I will panic about this later.

[Fritz]

Assuming today is April 1st.

AND Sam Barrington?

AND you just gave your bitter enemy, the Seafuckers, the offensive-line starved team, your best guard?

This. Makes. No. Sense.

What. So. Fucking. Ever.

[run pMc]

WTF?

[vince]

Don't fuck with Ted I guess. They didn't have to cut him now though.

I've been told by multiple sources that the Sitton release was contract related, that he was not happy with the Packers waiting on extending his contract while pursuing deals with other players. There must have been some kind of standoff. Sitton is in the final year of his deal and was set to be unrestricted next year.
by Tom Silverstein 3:04 PM

It's possible that they felt the situation was untenable that Sitton was not going to be happy and that it was best for both sides to part ways.
by Tom Silverstein 3:06 PM

[Fritz]

Don't fuck with Ted I guess. They didn't have to cut him now though.

I've been told by multiple sources that the Sitton release was contract related, that he was not happy with the Packers waiting on extending his contract while pursuing deals with other players. There must have been some kind of standoff. Sitton is in the final year of his deal and was set to be unrestricted next year.
by Tom Silverstein 3:04 PM

It's possible that they felt the situation was untenable that Sitton was not going to be happy and that it was best for both sides to part ways.
by Tom Silverstein 3:06 PM


Then trade his ass to the AFC for a sixth round pick. But don't give him to Seattle on a silver platter.

[vince]

I'd say the best option is Barclay, either at C and shift Tretter, or slide Barclay in at guard.

No Taylor please.

[Scott Campbell]

I'd say the best option is Barclay, either at C and shift Tretter, or slide Barclay in at guard.

No Taylor please.

Or Linsley at C (if he's close to ready) and Tretter at Guard.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Correct me if I'm wrong - there's an unnecessary request - but 4 of the 5 starters on line are in contract year. Maybe they want to move past Sitton era, he is the weakest link in their view. But why make the move now? Why, why, why? Makes zero sense.

[Bretsky]

I'm in denial; this would be idiotic.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Just like the time he released Jon Ryan for Frosty the Noodle-Legged Punter, Thompson once again makes another incompetent move.

[vince]

Ted Thompson on releasing Sitton: "This was done with a focus on what is best for the team and the growth of the offensive line"

[esoxx]

Pure speculation here but have to guess Sitton went off on someone in front office (perhaps Ted) about not extending his contract. Anyone who has listened to him in interviews knows he has no problem expressing his opinion, sometimes crudely.

[Bretsky]

Ted Thompson on releasing Sitton: "This was done with a focus on what is best for the team and the growth of the offensive line"

Can they really not get anybody to trade for their best OL ??

[vince]

I thought the salary cap issues would come home to roost NEXT YEAR.

One question that needs to be asked with Sitton, is it possible they asked him for a pay cut? That would have been a huge slap in the face. That is just pure speculation but it would explain why they decided to cut him instead of going forward. I don't think he asked for an exorbitant amount of money.
by Tom Silverstein 3:29 PM

[Harlan Huckleby]

Can they really not get anybody to trade for their best OL ??

We don't really know what GMs think of his more recent game tape, this year and last.

[Bretsky]

I thought the salary cap issues would come home to roost NEXT YEAR.

One question that needs to be asked with Sitton, is it possible they asked him for a pay cut? That would have been a huge slap in the face. That is just pure speculation but it would explain why they decided to cut him instead of going forward. I don't think he asked for an exorbitant amount of money.
by Tom Silverstein 3:29 PM


If Ted asked him to take a pay cut or get release, IMO....more idiotic.......

We're trying to win a SB; I don't get this. We are below the cap.

Let him walk next year if need be. But this makes no sense to me

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Or Linsley at C (if he's close to ready) and Tretter at Guard.

Yo Campbell, how's the wives?

I just called my bookie and put money on the rookie 2nd rounder being the Pack's new LG. What's the rook's name? Jason Biggs? Didn't he fuck a pie in American Pie?

[Airin' Rodgers]

Josh Sitton @jsitton71
@Uber is pretty awesome. Can't wait to use it in Seattle!


This tweet is from 2 years ago.

[vince]

If Ted asked him to take a pay cut or get release, IMO....more idiotic.......

We're trying to win a SB; I don't get this. We are below the cap.

Let him walk next year if need be. But this makes no sense to me
Agree. A bridge had to have been burned and/or a line drawn in the sand one way or another. esoxx makes a good point about Sitton's ego and personality.

[vince]

I don't buy this, but for the record...

Talked briefly with Josh Sitton and he told me that there was no showdown over his contract and that he was completely caught off guard with the call he received this morning. Said he assumed the team wanted to go with younger players and they just didn't plan on going forward with him.
by Tom Silverstein 3:51 PM

[Bretsky]

I don't buy this, but for the record...

Talked briefly with Josh Sitton and he told me that there was no showdown over his contract and that he was completely caught off guard with the call he received this morning. Said he assumed the team wanted to go with younger players and they just didn't plan on going forward with him.
by Tom Silverstein 3:51 PM


was he getting a terribly high wage ?

Which guy will start who is "better" than Josh Sitton at the position ?

Shocking

[Bretsky]

Agree. A bridge had to have been burned and/or a line drawn in the sand one way or another. esoxx makes a good point about Sitton's ego and personality.

every team has to manag whacked out egos and personalities; it's part of a GM's job. Think life was easy behind the scenes babysitting Favre and the gang ?

Was he getting paid a boatload ? I can't believe they could not get a draft pick for him

[vince]

With these things, always a backstory. https://t.co/RqSBgmFq3e
Andrew Brandt @Andrew Brandt

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I can't believe they could not get a draft pick for him

Would've gotten at least a precious 5th rounder for Sitton in 2018 simply by allowing Sitton to walk next March instead. Comp picks.

This may be a sign that Thompson plans to retire sooner than later.

[beveaux1]

It's probably a combination of things. First, they believe he's a descending player with health issues. Second, they think there's someone on the roster that can do as well as Sitton at the guard position. Third, there's someone that they believe has enough upside on the roster that they don't want to cut. You can bet that MM and TT both came to this decision. It probably was not something that Sitton said to someone in the front office. It comes down to what they believe the best 53 will be.

[pbmax]

It's probably a combination of things. First, they believe he's a descending player with health issues. Second, they think there's someone on the roster that can do as well as Sitton at the guard position. .

I was with you until point two. :lol:

[vince]

That could very well be right but I haven't yet gotten my head around how Sitton isn't included on the best 53.

[beveaux1]

I was with you until point two. :lol:

Don't think they would cut him, otherwise.

[beveaux1]

That could very well be right but I haven't yet gotten my head around how Sitton isn't included on the best 53.

At this point in time, he might be one of the best 53. The key to a successful front office is deciding if someone in the bottom 10 on your roster will be better by the end of the year, or by next year. You don't want to lose that guy.

[The Shadow]

It's probably a combination of things. First, they believe he's a descending player with health issues. Second, they think there's someone on the roster that can do as well as Sitton at the guard position. Third, there's someone that they believe has enough upside on the roster that they don't want to cut. You can bet that MM and TT both came to this decision. It probably was not something that Sitton said to someone in the front office. It comes down to what they believe the best 53 will be.

I agree. In addition, I think they have already decided that this will be Pepper's last year, and Peppers + Sitton money can eventually be used to take care of the players whose contracts are coming due.

[beveaux1]

I think we see Sitton as he was 3 years ago. He was not the same last year. I'm sure the tape showed that and they probably gave Sitton an ultimatum to come in in better shape. Training camp must not have been kind to him.

[vince]

This was likely always going to happen but it could have happened next offseason not this one, unless they really don't want to see Bakh hit the market.

[bobblehead]

I've said all along that Bacteria would end up at LG. Not sure who is ready to play LT in such a case though. Maybe its right that Barclay or Tretter will hold them over for a year.

[pbmax]

Don't think they would cut him, otherwise.

I agree. But who? Has to be Tretter/Linsley. Barclay was bad as a Guard if I recall.

[pbmax]

I've said all along that Bacteria would end up at LG. Not sure who is ready to play LT in such a case though. Maybe its right that Barclay or Tretter will hold them over for a year.

Would you post more for God's sake? Together we are close to genius!

Spriggs LT, Bach LG is future. But very doubtful its present. We'll see.

Springs in pass pro has been what I thought Sherrod was be.

[red]

well if you can't get a new deal then trade the fucker, or make him play out his contract, you just don't cut him

we just trumped the queens stupid move of the year with our own

i don't get it

[vince]

After today's moves, the Packers are now among the league leaders in cap space. Should have about $16M to use for in-season extensions.
Michael Rodney @PackersNotes

[bobblehead]

Would you post more for God's sake? Together we are close to genius!

Spriggs LT, Bach LG is future. But very doubtful its present. We'll see.

Springs in pass pro has been what I thought Sherrod was be.

Same as Sherrod, he needs a better punch...but he is young, so there is hope he might develop it. He is very natural at locking out the arms and steering guys where he wants them, but Mack exposed his lack of punch when facing premier talent (but then again, Mack does that to good NFL left tackles).

[red]

Just like the time he released Jon Ryan for Frosty the Noodle-Legged Punter, Thompson once again makes another incompetent move.

and both went to TT's old team, the seachickens

i'm not saying its a conspiracy, but a lot of people are saying it is

[bobblehead]

and both went to TT's old team, the seachickens

i'm not saying its a conspiracy, but a lot of people are saying it is

And the reason I don't post much anymore is because I would love to make a joke about a former democrat running as a republican to get his friend elected, but then everyones panties would get up in a bunch that I'm talking politics, then they would run to the Kapernick thread to ......

[red]

just when you think we're prepared for a proper SB run, we go and shoot ourselves in the dick

[Airin' Rodgers]

and both went to TT's old team, the seachickens

i'm not saying its a conspiracy, but a lot of people are saying it is

Don't know why people keep saying this. Sitton hasn't gone anywhere

[SMBASS]

Would you post more for God's sake? Together we are close to genius!

Spriggs LT, Bach LG is future. But very doubtful its present. We'll see.


I don't see Bach as a guard at all. Since he struggles against power players why do you think he's suited for playing on the inside?

Also, did anyone mention yet that they just put Linsley on the PUP list? Now without him being available I don't get releasing Sitton at this particular time at all. Our OL just became a lot weaker without any depth now if you ask me.

[red]

And the reason I don't post much anymore is because I would love to make a joke about a former democrat running as a republican to get his friend elected, but then everyones panties would get up in a bunch that I'm talking politics, then they would run to the Kapernick thread to ......

glad you picked up on the joke though

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I hate the move. The only way this makes sense is if he really did start to decline and we just can't see it and TT wants to keep Tretter and Bahk long-term.

This year: Bahk, Tretter, Lindsey, Lang, Bulaga?
Next year: Spriggs, Tretter, Lindsley, Bahk, Bulaga?

And why Barrington? One injury away from Matthews back in the middle.

Frustrating day.

[pbmax]

I don't see Bach as a guard at all. Since he struggles against power players why do you think he's suited for playing on the inside?

Also, did anyone mention yet that they just put Linsley on the PUP list? Now without him being available I don't get releasing Sitton at this particular time at all. Our OL just became a lot weaker without any depth now if you ask me.

Ah, PUP list makes this weirder. I could see handing the job to Tretter/Linsley/Bach. But not Lane Taylor.

[bobblehead]

PS...Maybe Sitton banged Holmgren's daughter....just sayin'

[red]

After today's moves, the Packers are now among the league leaders in cap space. Should have about $16M to use for in-season extensions.
Michael Rodney @PackersNotes

oh good, to roll over to next year, then the next, then the next

[Radagast]

As I presently read this, TT goes not want to pay the Packers best Offensive Lineman what he is worth . A released Sitton may sign with anyone he pleases to.

This sounds like Tightwad Ted BEING Tightwad Ted and another NFL Team getting a Pro-Bowl Quality Offensive Guard .

I can just hear TT saying, "How you like me now ?" My answer, where can I buy TAR and FEATHERS ?

[vince]

Ted's Tedliest move since Favre.

I think they do see Sitton declining and they have confidence somebody (Barclay?) can hold up just fine in the tight confines inside. I've seen Barclay working hard on the second level on more than a few runs this preseason. He's obviously a serious liability outside but if his second year back from the ACL means he's once again 100% then his game was always best mauling inside anyway.

beveaux, I'm seeing a little bit of gray area in your take on this now. We're (me included) concerned of a huge drop off in play. I don't think Ted and Mike think that's going to happen. Now we'll just have to wait and see how it goes. There's no question that the move changes the game from a cap management standpoint. Along with Peppers' salary coming off the books, they've got the flexibility to sign their guys.

[red]

PFF rated him as the 6th best guard in the nfl last year, so he didn't suck too much

and his cap hit was 6.85 which isn't much at all for a pro bowl guard

eagles get a 1st and 4th for sam fucking bradford, and we don't get shit for one of the best players in the nfl

i hate TT

[red]

Ted's Tedliest move since Favre.

I think they do see Sitton declining and they have confidence somebody (Barclay?) can hold up just fine in the tight confines inside. I've seen Barclay working hard on the second level on more than a few runs this preseason. He's obviously a serious liability outside but if his second year back from the ACL means he's once again 100% then his game was always best mauling inside anyway.

esoxx I'm seeing a little bit of gray area in your take on this now. We're (me included) concerned of a huge drop off in play. I don't think Ted and Mike think that's going to happen. Now we'll just have to wait and see how it goes. There's no question that the move changes the game from a cap management standpoint. Along with Peppers' salary coming off the books, they've got the flexibility to sign their guys.

barclay is a disaster, he needs to not be on the roster, its nuts to think of him as a starter again

and i've said for years, maybe TT and M3 aren't as smart as they think they are

[SMBASS]

Ah, PUP list makes this weirder. I could see handing the job to Tretter/Linsley/Bach. But not Lane Taylor.

I'll bet Linsley doesn't even play this year since he's already torn the same hamstring twice. This move makes no sense to me unless TT has his eye on someone off of the waiver wire because I sure as hell don't see the answer on our roster right now. If ARod spends this year running for his frickin' life again I'll bet
he's going to be pissed and I won't blame him one bit.

[SMBASS]

PS...Maybe Sitton banged Holmgren's daughter....just sayin'

Lol Bobble! That has to be it!

[red]

I'll bet Linsley doesn't even play this year this since he's already torn the same hamstring twice. This move makes no sense to me unless TT has his eye on someone off of the waiver wire because I sure as hell don't see the answer on our roster right now. If ARod spends this year running for his frickin' life again I'll be he's going to be pissed and I won't blame him one bit.

anyone of note get cut from another team?

i haven't been paying attention

i agree though that i don't see his replacement on the team

unless its that one rookie, sprunk or whatever his name is that looks just like a younger sitton

[vince]

barclay is a disaster, he needs to not be on the roster, its nuts to think of him as a starter again

and i've said for years, maybe TT and M3 aren't as smart as they think they are
I'm shocked you're over the top reactionary on this red.

We'll see. He's held up well at Center this year.

Maybe TT and M3 are smarter than you think they are.

[SMBASS]

anyone of note get cut from another team?

i haven't been paying attention

i agree though that i don't see his replacement on the team

unless its that one rookie, sprunk or whatever his name is that looks just like a younger sitton

I've been watching college football this afternoon red so I haven't paid any attention to other team's releases either. That kid that looked like Sitton was placed on IR so he's off the table as well.

[red]

I'm shocked you're over the top reactionary on this red.

We'll see. He's held up well at Center this year.

Maybe TT and M3 are smarter than you think they are.

not from what i've seen

[Bretsky]

Don't think they would cut him, otherwise.


I was also there til part 2; I don't think that guy is on our roster

TT is kind of an icon in here; but if this blows up he deserves to be roasted

[vince]

Can they really not get anybody to trade for their best OL ??

Nobody's going to trade for a guy with a $6.5 million base salary that would be guaranteed on the first day of the season.
by Tom Silverstein 4:42 PM

[pbmax]

I hate the move. The only way this makes sense is if he really did start to decline and we just can't see it and TT wants to keep Tretter and Bahk long-term.

This year: Bahk, Tretter, Lindsey, Lang, Bulaga?
Next year: Spriggs, Tretter, Lindsley, Bahk, Bulaga?

And why Barrington? One injury away from Matthews back in the middle.

Frustrating day.

Bradford on PS perhaps.

[pbmax]

As I presently read this, TT goes not want to pay the Packers best Offensive Lineman what he is worth . A released Sitton may sign with anyone he pleases to.

This sounds like Tightwad Ted BEING Tightwad Ted and another NFL Team getting a Pro-Bowl Quality Offensive Guard .

I can just hear TT saying, "How you like me now ?" My answer, where can I buy TAR and FEATHERS ?

How much is an over 30 Guard with a bad back worth? Just curious.

And Sitton said he was willing to play out the last year.

[Bretsky]

Would you post more for God's sake? Together we are close to genius!

Spriggs LT, Bach LG is future. But very doubtful its present. We'll see.

Springs in pass pro has been what I thought Sherrod was be.


SHERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

That fruitcake was nothing short of horrible from day one. I'd blacked that puke and the other out of my memory until reading this :)))))))))))))))0

Spriggs better be better than a fruitcake

[Bretsky]

After today's moves, the Packers are now among the league leaders in cap space. Should have about $16M to use for in-season extensions.
Michael Rodney @PackersNotes


THIS IS TEDLIKE

[SMBASS]

We'll see. He's held up well at Center this year.



Barclay may have held up at center Vince, (I haven't watched enough to evaluate his blocking.) but he sure as hell isn't good at it. His lollipop long snaps in shotgun take about 6 seconds to get back to the QB.

[Bretsky]

I think we see Sitton as he was 3 years ago. He was not the same last year. I'm sure the tape showed that and they probably gave Sitton an ultimatum to come in in better shape. Training camp must not have been kind to him.


I think last year he was still in the top half of Guards in the NFL; was he our best OL last year ? Certainly not our worst starter.

[RashanGary]

I was looking at the OL and I felt it was going to be hard to keep all of the players I felt like we could keep, especially with an eye on next year when I feel like we very well could have been without both Sitton and Lang. Plus, Bhak is no sure thing With the injury he's coming off.

We were looking really thin next year if we don't keep a bunch of decent young guys now. And Sitton and Lang are only getting worse after 30. That's just a reality.

Keeping a young guy over and old one...... That happens. Like I said, I was already letting go of those two old guys in my mind. I don't feel bad about this.

[pbmax]

I have to admit I saw Barclay at center failing to cut off his reach block and giving up pursuit.

[Bretsky]

just when you think we're prepared for a proper SB run, we go and shoot ourselves in the dick

That was my first reaction my second reaction was whether Patler was starting a late April Fools Day thread

[pbmax]

Everyone stop panicking. He is a Guard. Not a starting QB. If Daryn Colledge can get you to the NFCCG, then this is survivable.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I was looking at the OL and I felt it was going to be hard to keep all of the players I felt like we could keep, especially with an eye on next year when I feel like we very well could have been without both Sitton and Lang. Plus, Bhak is no sure thing With the injury he's coming off.

We were looking really thin next year if we don't keep a bunch of decent young guys now. And Sitton and Lang are only getting worse after 30. That's just a reality.

Keeping a young guy over and old one...... That happens. Like I said, I was already letting go of those two old guys in my mind. I don't feel bad about this.

I had convinced myself they would both be gone next year too. What I don't understand is why cut a good player on the last year of his deal when we are primed for a great season. With this logic cut peppers now and let Perry, Jones, and the other young guys play.

[Bretsky]

anyone of note get cut from another team?

i haven't been paying attention

i agree though that i don't see his replacement on the team

unless its that one rookie, sprunk or whatever his name is that looks just like a younger sitton



We don't sign the anybody of notes ya big dummy

We sing the UDFA's for he future :))

[SMBASS]

Everyone stop panicking. He is a Guard. Not a starting QB. If Daryn Colledge can get you to the NFCCG, then this is survivable.

I think it's more wondering about the timing of this move under the circumstances than panicking. Just because people are questioning it doesn't mean everyone is running around playing Chicken Little.

[vince]

Everyone stop panicking. He is a Guard. Not a starting QB. If Daryn Colledge can get you to the NFCCG, then this is survivable.
Good point. I don't know what the plan is, but this move wasn't made without one.

[Bretsky]

Everyone stop panicking. He is a Guard. Not a starting QB. If Daryn Colledge can get you to the NFCCG, then this is survivable.

FUCKING BART HOUSTON
I hate this guy more then Scott I choked everytime UW needed a big play Tolzien

That is why I'm pissed

Can I blame TT for that ? lol

[gbgary]

collosal mistake.

[Bretsky]

collosal mistake.

the mother of all f'ck ups with a 13 point lead
You never win after that happens

[pbmax]

I think it's more wondering about the timing of this move under the circumstances than panicking. Just because people are questioning it doesn't mean everyone is running around playing Chicken Little.

Questioning makes sense. Talking about throwing away a Super Bowl is premature and probably dumb (red, not you SMB).

[pbmax]

the mother of all f'ck ups with a 13 point lead
You never win after that happens

You are like a teenager. You are spilling everything everywhere. Get some thread discipline.

[vince]

Ted's Shock and Awe campaign crashed the Packers.com website today.

[SMBASS]

Questioning makes sense. Talking about throwing away a Super Bowl is premature and probably dumb (red, not you SMB).

I can agree with that. I guess we'll just have to wait and see how this all shakes out. I still think there's probably more to the story than we're ever likely to hear.

[Bretsky]

I'm ready for Eliott Wolf anyways

[MadScientist]

Campen pushed for the cut so he would have a ready-made excuse for the OL being shitty again.

[vince]

I'm pretty sure there are only 2 GM's with giant balls of steel to make a move like this.

Bellichek and Thompson

Now we'll see how it works out. Nobody's gonna let him forget this one if it backfires. That don't phase Teddy.

[Radagast]

How much is an over 30 Guard with a bad back worth? Just curious.

And Sitton said he was willing to play out the last year.

All will know that answer very soon. Another team will gladly snap up Sitton and pay him too .

Release Ted Thompson and not even a dog will sniff at him ! :beat:

[red]

Questioning makes sense. Talking about throwing away a Super Bowl is premature and probably dumb (red, not you SMB).

just remember this when eddy is averaging 2.3 yards per carry, and a-rod develops happy feet cause he keeps getting drilled

[pbmax]

just remember this when eddy is averaging 2.3 yards per carry, and a-rod develops happy feet cause he keeps getting drilled

Its a risk. I can't actually believe they expect Taylor to perform. I have been wrong before but this would be next level stuff even for me.

[vince]

If Ted's history of controversial moves that have sent half the fanbase into a collective uproar is any indication, someone will do yeoman's work filling in effectively at LG, enabling Ted to re-sign Bakh and Tretter to 2nd deals, while Sitton hobbles through turftoe before having back surgery in two months.

[ND72]

I still say McCarthy doesn't value offensive lineman.

[pbmax]

Doesn't seem like a McCarthy move. But I do wonder who he wants at LG now. Very curious.

Good to see you ND.

[ND72]

Doesn't seem like a McCarthy move. But I do wonder who he wants at LG now. Very curious.

Good to see you ND.

Good to be seen. :) Maybe I'll get a try out call with the packers to play guard...they could use a 35 year old former player with bad ankles and knees, right?

[bobblehead]

I was looking at the OL and I felt it was going to be hard to keep all of the players I felt like we could keep, especially with an eye on next year when I feel like we very well could have been without both Sitton and Lang. Plus, Bhak is no sure thing With the injury he's coming off.

We were looking really thin next year if we don't keep a bunch of decent young guys now. And Sitton and Lang are only getting worse after 30. That's just a reality.

Keeping a young guy over and old one...... That happens. Like I said, I was already letting go of those two old guys in my mind. I don't feel bad about this.

OL is a position that relies more on slow twitch than fast twitch. All things equal Sitton probably should have 5 years left. That being said, obviously TT and MM think all things are NOT equal.

[bobblehead]

the mother of all f'ck ups with a 13 point lead
You never win after that happens

DOH! Internet is a chronicling bitch waiting to be bumped! (But I agreed at the time)

[bobblehead]

If Ted's history of controversial moves that have sent half the fanbase into a collective uproar is any indication, someone will do yeoman's work filling in effectively at LG, enabling Ted to re-sign Bakh and Tretter to 2nd deals, while Sitton hobbles through turftoe before having back surgery in two months.

This. I want to see what deal Sitton gets on the open market. That will speak volumes to his health (or someones desperation).

[bobblehead]

Good to be seen. :) Maybe I'll get a try out call with the packers to play guard...they could use a 35 year old former player with bad ankles and knees, right?

How about a 5'10" former d3 LT?

[ND72]

How about a 5'10" former d3 LT?

This D2 6'4" LT likely wouldn't make it too far. :)

Just listened to Dombrovsky on NFL Radio talk. Talked a lot about there had to be more to this than just a simple cut. Something had to have happened that we may never know about. What he did say we know, right now a strength may have taken a large hit because they don't have much idea who is starting at LG. Likely it will be Walker since Linsley will be out at least the 1st week. He did talk a lot about moving Bulaga to LG and putting Spriggs in at RT, but that would be an offseason move...which then he came back right away with, "Which is why this move is even more bizarre. This could have been done weeks ago if it was simply for cap space. Something happened."

[vince]

Forgot all about Walker. When healthy, he's your LG right now. Keep him inside and he can get it done.

Edit: Walker is on IR so he's out for the year.

[King Friday]

I'm conflicted about this move. I see the reason behind keeping younger guys on the roster this year if Sitton indeed was a goner next year. However, the guy only had one year left on his deal...and he is clearly a better option for this season than others on our roster. Thompson has always been very good at being able to predict when a guy is about to hit the wall in his career though. He may get rid of a guy a year too early...but that is better than a year too late.

The confusing thing is getting NOTHING in return for a guy who clearly has value to other teams in the league. I'm not saying you are getting a top 150 pick...but even a 6th round pick has SOME value. This isn't a move that suddenly pops into your head yesterday and you run with it. This is a move that is made carefully over weeks or months, so it is hard to believe they couldn't find a way to get SOMETHING in return for him.

[Zool]

What is Sttons cap hit before and after release? Could be looking to re-sign someone this year and have a big hit this season.

[call_me_ishmael]

I've said all along that Bacteria would end up at LG. Not sure who is ready to play LT in such a case though. Maybe its right that Barclay or Tretter will hold them over for a year.

I would be surprised if this happened because wouldn't he just go to FA and cash in at tackle rather than accept guard payment? I think it's clear they think he's the LT of the future, and they want to keep Tretter too.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The confusing thing is getting NOTHING in return for a guy who clearly has value to other teams in the league. I'm not saying you are getting a top 150 pick...but even a 6th round pick has SOME value.

An experiment was just run that determined his market value. goose egg. Surprising, but that's what the pro talent evaluators say.

[Rutnstrut]

When you say fuck off to one of your best O-lineman, you are saying fuck off to your QB. i sure hope Hundley is ready to play, because TT sure as fuck doesn't care about the health of Rodgers.

[pbmax]

An experiment was just run that determined his market value. goose egg. Surprising, but that's what the pro talent evaluators say.

As a vested vet, he doesn't go through waivers. He is an immediate FA. But unless someone is crazy desperate, they won't offer him starter money until after Week 1 so its not all guaranteed.

[Harlan Huckleby]

OK on the FA point, but King was talking about Sitton's trade value. TT reportedly shopped til he dropped. No takers.

[Harlan Huckleby]

When you say fuck off to one of your best O-lineman, you are saying fuck off to your QB.
If Sitton is really the best O-lineman, then why wasn't there a feeding frenzy of other GMs to pick him up for a high round draft pick? I think we learned he is not highly regarded by people who study film.

I agree with the fuck-off part, though. Seems awful sudden and cold.

[ND72]

As a vested vet, he doesn't go through waivers. He is an immediate FA. But unless someone is crazy desperate, they won't offer him starter money until after Week 1 so its not all guaranteed.

Radio said this isn't true (per NFL network). He still has to clear waivers, so he cannot sign with a team until monday, or that team picks up his entire salary for this season. I have no clue how this works, but according to NFL XM Radio, that's the deal.

[smuggler]

No, he is exempt from waivers. Either that or he has right of refusal if a team tries to claim him. Effectively making him a free agent.

[Pugger]

This was likely always going to happen but it could have happened next offseason not this one, unless they really don't want to see Bakh hit the market.

I've been reading multiple Packers' forums about Sitton's release and this makes the most sense. Did Sitton play much this preseason? How did he do with one on ones in TC this summer?

[Pugger]

Everyone stop panicking. He is a Guard. Not a starting QB. If Daryn Colledge can get you to the NFCCG, then this is survivable.

You are right, of course, but we all want a decent line to keep our fabulous QB upright and healthy. *Fingers crossed*

[Pugger]

just remember this when eddy is averaging 2.3 yards per carry, and a-rod develops happy feet cause he keeps getting drilled

Sitton was never a good run blocker ya know...

[King Friday]

OK on the FA point, but King was talking about Sitton's trade value. TT reportedly shopped til he dropped. No takers.

If Thompson is shopping a guy at this point just hours before final cutdowns, then's he's probably going to release him if he can't move him. That's common knowledge. That is why he didn't get anything for Sitton at this point.

My point was that if this was a scenario put into play months ago...and I assume it was...then I'm surprised Thompson didn't make the move earlier to get some value for Sitton. I guess he and the brain trust were not confident enough in the OL depth to do that until they went through all of camp. Perhaps the debacle that was the HOF game hurt the Packers chances of evaluating their OL depth sooner to give Thompson the chance to make the call a little sooner.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Sitton was never a good run blocker ya know...

I'm guessing this is sarcasm since Sitton was a good run blocker in past years. His release calls into question where he stands now, at least in my mind. It is harder for a couch cowboy to judge an interior lineman than a tackle; there's just so much more conjestion on tv.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If Thompson is shopping a guy at this point just hours before final cutdowns, then's he's probably going to release him if he can't move him. That's common knowledge. That is why he didn't get anything for Sitton at this point.

That's a valid point - to a point. It's not the low round draft pick that deters a deal. I assume teams prefer to wait till he's a free agent so they can negotiate a lower contract. But the fact that there are no takers means that Sitton's skills have declined - he'd be worth his contract to some team if he was still a really good player.

You're right that we'll get a fuller measure of Sitton's market value once he becomes a free agent. I overstated the case when I called Sitton a goose egger.


My point was that if this was a scenario put into play months ago...and I assume it was...then I'm surprised Thompson didn't make the move earlier to get some value for Sitton.
Possibly Thompson has been putting out feelers for Sitton for months. It became a fire sale on Saturday. We don't know.

[Pugger]

If Thompson is shopping a guy at this point just hours before final cutdowns, then's he's probably going to release him if he can't move him. That's common knowledge. That is why he didn't get anything for Sitton at this point.

My point was that if this was a scenario put into play months ago...and I assume it was...then I'm surprised Thompson didn't make the move earlier to get some value for Sitton. I guess he and the brain trust were not confident enough in the OL depth to do that until they went through all of camp. Perhaps the debacle that was the HOF game hurt the Packers chances of evaluating their OL depth sooner to give Thompson the chance to make the call a little sooner.

Of course we don't know how long Ted has been shopping Sitton.

[3irty1]

The only way I can wrap my head around this is three things are true:

1) Sitton's back is worse than previously thought. We know it affected him on the field last year and that it dictated his offseason.

2) 6.85M is about fair market value for a solid starter, and cheap for a resume like Sitton's. This move must really help the beancounting of next years free agent exodus. If cap space alone were the reason, they would have cut him months ago.

3) When Ted said "best for the team and growth of the offensive line" he wasn't talking about youth for the sake of youth with turds like Lane Taylor or Barclay. For the team to grow in any meaningful sense this gets a guy with serious potential on the field. Put me in the Bak, Spriggs doubleswitch camp.

[pbmax]

Radio said this isn't true (per NFL network). He still has to clear waivers, so he cannot sign with a team until monday, or that team picks up his entire salary for this season. I have no clue how this works, but according to NFL XM Radio, that's the deal.

I think I had this wrong. Masthay had an article written about him but the vested vet caveat was about his contract not waivers. Radio was probably right.

I'd be stunned if someone picked up Sitton's deal on waivers.

[Patler]

Doesn't the veteran's salary become guaranteed when he is on the roster for the first game? In the past we have seen teams release a veteran on Saturday and resign him on Monday to get away from the guarantee if he is looked at as a backup, or otherwise not yet ready to play. Sitton may be on the street until a week from Monday.

The fact that GB intended to release Sitton didn't discourage teams from trading for him, his salary versus perceived value did. Trading for him ensures that you get him, and a low draft pick, or a conditional pick isn't much to pay for it. If you let the Packers cut him, you are competing against other teams to get him. The fact that no team was willing to trade for him shows that no team was willing to give up anything to ensure that they got him. Teams were willing to take their chances in not getting him.

[pbmax]

Doesn't the veteran's salary become guaranteed when he is on the roster for the first game? .

Yep. That is part of the vested veteran.

[Patler]

TT didn't wake up Saturday morning and suddenly decide to get rid of Sitton. I suspect this has been under consideration all off season, and TT has floated the possibility of Sitton being available for quite some time.

Signing Taylor to a $4M contract has always felt a bit odd for several reasons. Taylor isn't the typical backup lineman, he has no versatility. Having him as your backup guard on game days puts you at a disadvantage unless you keep 2 other OL active, and GB likes to go with just 2 backups, with each having at least some versatility. While Sitton and Lang both had injuries last year, and Sitton almost never practiced in recent years, both guards showed up on game days ready to play until Lang missed a game last year. Taylor's contract seemed a bit generous for the role it seemed he would have. OL and QB are the only positions that don't commonly use rotations of players. The backups play only if the starters can't. Other backups play a few regular snaps on a routine basis, or factor into ST plans, etc. Taylor would not.

TT made the mistake of keeping Driver longer than he should have. Sitton's back isn't likely to allow him to play well for more than a short time, and they may have concluded that it already diminished his value below his 2016 salary, and that Sitton's money can better be used to extend contracts for Bakhtiari, Tretter or even Lang.

[vince]

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Looks like former Packers' Pro Bowl G Josh Sitton's first visit will be to...division-rival Chicago Bears, per sources. Saints could follow
9:01 AM - 4 Sep 2016

[red]

yipee

[pbmax]

I just wished I saw the improvement in Taylor that apparently the coaches and Ted have seen. Because he looked abominable in 2 of the preseason games. Especially versus the Chefs.

[vince]

The only way I can wrap my head around this is three things are true:

1) Sitton's back is worse than previously thought. We know it affected him on the field last year and that it dictated his offseason.

2) 6.85M is about fair market value for a solid starter, and cheap for a resume like Sitton's. This move must really help the beancounting of next years free agent exodus. If cap space alone were the reason, they would have cut him months ago.

3) When Ted said "best for the team and growth of the offensive line" he wasn't talking about youth for the sake of youth with turds like Lane Taylor or Barclay. For the team to grow in any meaningful sense this gets a guy with serious potential on the field. Put me in the Bak, Spriggs doubleswitch camp.
He hasn't played one rep at guard as far as I've seen, but maybe Murphy is the best option at guard. He can't handle the edge - yet anyway, but he's as strong as an ox.

[wist43]

This regime has always been behind the curve at certain positions - the OL in general is one of them.

They're just as retarded about ILB, and defense in general.

Take away Aaron Rodgers, and everyone would have been calling for Ted's head years ago. QB may be the most important position in the league, but the Packers completely fall apart - as in completely - without Rodgers. That doesn't speak well of Ted's drafting philosophy and chops.

[pbmax]

Take away Aaron Rodgers, and everyone would have been calling for Ted's head years ago. QB may be the most important position in the league, but the Packers completely fall apart - as in completely - without Rodgers. That doesn't speak well of Ted's drafting philosophy and chops.

Take away any teams All Pro QB and everyone would be fired every two years. For my evidence, I give you the Cleveland Browns. Or the Bears.

[Fritz]

I just wished I saw the improvement in Taylor that apparently the coaches and Ted have seen. Because he looked abominable in 2 of the preseason games. Especially versus the Chefs.



What he said.

[wist43]

Take away any teams All Pro QB and everyone would be fired every two years. For my evidence, I give you the Cleveland Browns. Or the Bears.

Is NE likely to fall apart without Brady??

They lost him for an entire season, and went 10-6 with what proved to be a below average QB.

We lost the division last year, at home, against a team QB'd by Teddy Bridgewater... and that was with having our All-World QB under Center. What does that tell you??

Face facts guys, Green Bay is the most QB, 1 player dependent team in the league. We are average, to below average at just about every position - and that is on Ted.

It is what it is.

[vince]

This regime has always been behind the curve at certain positions - the OL in general is one of them.

They're just as retarded about ILB, and defense in general.

Take away Aaron Rodgers, and everyone would have been calling for Ted's head years ago. QB may be the most important position in the league, but the Packers completely fall apart - as in completely - without Rodgers. That doesn't speak well of Ted's drafting philosophy and chops.
What took you so long wist?

Thompson built what has become, when healthy, one of the best o-lines in the league. In general, he's proven to be among the top team builders in the league. Your assertion that the Packers are "behind the times" and void of talent outside the QB position is ridiculous IMO.

Their o-line has been ranked 10th, 4th, 5th and 3rd going into each of the last four seasons by PFF. Their overall record over the last decade speaks for itself.

Why not observe and learn from the masters of their profession rather than rushing to (mis)judge what you don't understand?

With 4 of the top 6 linemen having expiring contracts and physically declining players, it's clear a transition is occurring on the line.

What might be the most productive way to manage the transition?

Perhaps Ted might be showing us that the most effective way to do it is through incremental change and adaptation over time rather than revolutionary disruption all at once.

Some people choose to go for broke and then blow up the house when they're bankrupt. Ted likes his house and wants to keep updating and maintaining it. Sometimes that means you have to downsize a room here and there.

[George Cumby]

1) Sitton's back is worse than previously thought. .

I think this is probably the biggest factor.

[HarveyWallbangers]

The only way I can wrap my head around this is three things are true:

1) Sitton's back is worse than previously thought. We know it affected him on the field last year and that it dictated his offseason.

2) 6.85M is about fair market value for a solid starter, and cheap for a resume like Sitton's. This move must really help the beancounting of next years free agent exodus. If cap space alone were the reason, they would have cut him months ago.

3) When Ted said "best for the team and growth of the offensive line" he wasn't talking about youth for the sake of youth with turds like Lane Taylor or Barclay. For the team to grow in any meaningful sense this gets a guy with serious potential on the field. Put me in the Bak, Spriggs doubleswitch camp.

I'm with you on #1 and #2. I think #2 is most likely. They want money freed up to sign extensions now to put less burden on the future cap. I wonder if he was offered to take a pay cut. I wish #3 was true, but why wait until the final day to do this?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Adam Schefter @AdamSchefter
Looks like former Packers' Pro Bowl G Josh Sitton's first visit will be to...division-rival Chicago Bears, per sources. Saints could follow
9:01 AM - 4 Sep 2016

I'd be okay with this. That team will be bad with or without Sitton. Better the Bears than Seattle. I don't see a need in Minnesota. Boone and Fusco are solid.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Everyone stop panicking. He is a Guard. Not a starting QB. If Daryn Colledge can get you to the NFCCG, then this is survivable.

The dynamic duo of Klemm and his sidekick Whitticker couldn't get the Pack the NCCG.

Not saying we will go 4-12 this season without Sitton, but sometimes when you underestimate a position, as Thompson did at OG back in '05, it comes back to bite you in the ass. Favre would've been sacked perhaps 100 - plus times if not for his quick release. I like to joke at the local comedy club that Favre and Brady get rid of the football faster than I last during coition.

[wist43]

I think this is probably the biggest factor.

I think the biggest factor wrt the Packers final roster is always Ted's ego... he'd rather tinker around with prospects than keep a good solid vet on the team. Salary cap has nothing to do with it.

Our roster, top-bottom, is average... Rodgers is the only thing that makes us a contender.

Man for man, sans Rodgers, I'd take Minnesota's roster over ours in a heartbeat.

[pbmax]

Is NE likely to fall apart without Brady??

They lost him for an entire season, and went 10-6 with what proved to be a below average QB.

AFC East is what happened. How did the non-Bradys do in the playoffs?

They finished behind the Jets. The bleeping Jets. That's worse then finishing behind the Lions.

[Patler]

Last year the Packers fell apart with Rodgers, but without Nelson.

[pbmax]

The dynamic duo of Klemm and his sidekick Whitticker couldn't get the Pack the NCCG.

Not saying we will go 4-12 this season without Sitton, but sometimes when you underestimate a position, as Thompson did at OG back in '05, it comes back to bite you in the ass. Favre would've been sacked perhaps 100 - plus times if not for his quick release. I like to joke at the local comedy club that Favre and Brady get rid of the football faster than I last during coition.

Rebuilding can take more than one year.

[bobblehead]

I would be surprised if this happened because wouldn't he just go to FA and cash in at tackle rather than accept guard payment? I think it's clear they think he's the LT of the future, and they want to keep Tretter too.

I doubt there is a team in the NFL that is going to give Bach more money to play LT poorly than he would earn playing guard very well.

[Pugger]

Doesn't the veteran's salary become guaranteed when he is on the roster for the first game? In the past we have seen teams release a veteran on Saturday and resign him on Monday to get away from the guarantee if he is looked at as a backup, or otherwise not yet ready to play. Sitton may be on the street until a week from Monday.

The fact that GB intended to release Sitton didn't discourage teams from trading for him, his salary versus perceived value did. Trading for him ensures that you get him, and a low draft pick, or a conditional pick isn't much to pay for it. If you let the Packers cut him, you are competing against other teams to get him. The fact that no team was willing to trade for him shows that no team was willing to give up anything to ensure that they got him. Teams were willing to take their chances in not getting him.

This is what I find so surprising! Even if these other teams knew we were gonna cut him if a GM really wanted him they would have made a deal to ensure they got him.

I was listening to a pod cast of Wilde on Chewy's radio show earlier and Wilde said when he asked Sitton point blank the question on everyone's lips - "Why?" - all Josh would say is "ask my agent". :???:

[Pugger]

The dynamic duo of Klemm and his sidekick Whitticker couldn't get the Pack the NCCG.

Not saying we will go 4-12 this season without Sitton, but sometimes when you underestimate a position, as Thompson did at OG back in '05, it comes back to bite you in the ass. Favre would've been sacked perhaps 100 - plus times if not for his quick release. I like to joke at the local comedy club that Favre and Brady get rid of the football faster than I last during coition.

We won the SB in 2010 with Daryn freaking Colledge at LG.

[bobblehead]

This regime has always been behind the curve at certain positions - the OL in general is one of them.

They're just as retarded about ILB, and defense in general.

Take away Aaron Rodgers, and everyone would have been calling for Ted's head years ago. QB may be the most important position in the league, but the Packers completely fall apart - as in completely - without Rodgers. That doesn't speak well of Ted's drafting philosophy and chops.

steve hutchinson

[call_me_ishmael]

AFC East is what happened. How did the non-Bradys do in the playoffs?

They finished behind the Jets. The bleeping Jets. That's worse then finishing behind the Lions.

The whole thing is ignoring how stacked the team was, that, ya-know, was a Helmet catch away from being 19-0. Wist is crazy.

[SMBASS]

According to Ian Rapoport and Brad Biggs on Twitter, the Bears are signing Sitton to a 3-Year deal. Those are the only sources I've seen so far.

Biggs says that the deal could approach almost 7 mil. per yr.

[call_me_ishmael]

Sounds like Sitton actually got a small raise. This whole situation is very strange. Why on earth would you cut an all-pro? Could have gotten a decent compensatory pick next year letting him walk.

[SMBASS]

Sounds like Sitton actually got a small raise. This whole situation is very strange. Why on earth would you cut an all-pro? Could have gotten a decent compensatory pick next year letting him walk.

I agree that it's all very weird the way it went down. I still think there's more to this story then we're probably ever going to hear. Well, whatever...it's a done deal now.

[SMBASS]

Adam Schefter
✔ ‎@AdamSchefter

Josh Sitton signing a 3-year, $21.75 million deal that includes $10M guaranteed with the Chicago Bears, per source.

9:51 PM - 4 Sep 2016

[esoxx]

Thanks Ted!

[wist43]

AFC East is what happened. How did the non-Bradys do in the playoffs?

They finished behind the Jets. The bleeping Jets. That's worse then finishing behind the Lions.

You're such a homer, lol...

[Patler]

I agree that it's all very weird the way it went down. I still think there's more to this story then we're probably ever going to hear. Well, whatever...it's a done deal now.




Per Daugherty:


An NFL source with ties to the Packers told me that in the team’s eyes Sitton had become haughty and uncommunicative. That jibes with a report by the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel’s Tom Silverstein that the Packers were unwilling to talk contract extension with Sitton and instead placed left tackle David Bakhtiari and center JC Tretter ahead of him on their contract-extension priority list.

Clearly, Thompson thought a problem was festering in his locker room, and Sitton’s age and bad back left him expendable even coming off a second-team All-Pro season.

[vince]

Per Daugherty:
An NFL source with ties to the Packers told me that in the team’s eyes Sitton had become haughty and uncommunicative. That jibes with a report by the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel’s Tom Silverstein that the Packers were unwilling to talk contract extension with Sitton and instead placed left tackle David Bakhtiari and center JC Tretter ahead of him on their contract-extension priority list.

Clearly, Thompson thought a problem was festering in his locker room, and Sitton’s age and bad back left him expendable even coming off a second-team All-Pro season.That's telling. I had to look up haughty just to be sure since it's not used much.

"Arrogantly superior and disdainful"

That kind of me-first act can't be accepted by team leadership. When one of your team leaders pulls that, it spreads like wildfire. I'm sure they tried to work with him on it. The players may not like the move, but they'll respect the consistent demand for team unity.

Someone speculated that this may have been a strategy to get Sitton more money now rather than risking another year of banging in the trenches on an already beat up body. If it was it worked.

[vince]

Reminiscent of Favre's attitude back in '08.

McCarthy: Favre not in right mindset to play for Packers right now
(http://archive.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/31950849.html)

Why would I let anybody of a negative mindset in our locker room?

[smuggler]

I doubt he plays out that contract, but I would still rather have him here in 2016 to compete for a title!

[Bretsky]

I doubt he plays out that contract, but I would still rather have him here in 2016 to compete for a title!

Sounds like you either take the view GB mismanaged the situation, or you blame Sitton for being a disruption.

Either way hard to argue this is not a blow to our sb run.

[ThunderDan]

I doubt he plays out that contract, but I would still rather have him here in 2016 to compete for a title!

If he is cut and no one claims him, isn't his contract now void? He has to renegotiate a new contract with whom every signs him?

[ThunderDan]

This once took me by complete surprise. More so than Mastay and Morrell getting canned.

[vince]

Sounds like you either take the view GB mismanaged the situation, or you blame Sitton for being a disruption.

Either way hard to argue this is not a blow to our sb run.
GB management told Sitton that they wouldn't be negotiating a new deal with him until after they addressed the younger starters. You could say that's mismanagement I guess but I think it's good management in this situation.

I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that they mismanaged anything. There is evidence that Sitton became a disruption. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary (which could surface but I haven't seen any), anyone of the "GB mismanagement" opinion is doing nothing more than demonstrating their clear bias against GB management and lack of objectivity.

[Bretsky]

If he is cut and no one claims him, isn't his contract now void? He has to renegotiate a new contract with whom every signs him?

think that is right but if the Packer Brass and Sitton are not on same page (that is assumption) he's going elsewhere

[Bretsky]

GB management told Sitton that they wouldn't be negotiating a new deal with him until after they addressed the younger starters. You could say that's mismanagement I guess but I think it's good management in this situation.

I haven't seen any evidence whatsoever that they mismanaged anything. There is evidence that Sitton became a disruption. In the absence of any evidence to the contrary (which could surface but I haven't seen any), anyone of the "GB mismanagement" opinion is doing nothing more than demonstrating their clear bias against GB management and lack of objectivity.


EVIDENCE ? What evidence is there he became a discruption ? A "leak" ? Am I missing something ?

[ThunderDan]

If he is cut and no one claims him, isn't his contract now void? He has to renegotiate a new contract with whom every signs him?

Did not see the reported Chicago contract. Will see if he makes it all 3 years.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

AFC East is what happened. How did the non-Bradys do in the playoffs?

They finished behind the Jets. The bleeping Jets. That's worse then finishing behind the Lions.

Actually, the Pats lost a tie-breaker to the Fins. Both teams finished 11-5 (not 10-6); Fins got the nod due to a better conference record.

I still remember that season vividly b/c that was the season Ted's team with Ted's hand-picked QB went 6-10 after reaching the NFC Title game the previous season as a #2 seed.

And yeah, I remember an old gunslinger tossing 6 TDs in a game for the J-E-T-S while managing to sext his rooster to a fair maiden at halftime.

[ThunderDan]

EVIDENCE ? What evidence is there he became a discruption ? A "leak" ? Am I missing something ?

So when there is a leak about a strained relationship between TT and MM about TT's draft and develope style it is ok but leaks about someone else that doesn't support your view you don't believe it.

[vince]

EVIDENCE ? What evidence is there he became a discruption ? A "leak" ? Am I missing something ?
Maybe I should have said, "information."

If you think that information is untrue, are you suggesting that GB management cut Sitton because they think Taylor's better? What could possibly be their reasoning?

A simple cap management concern would be inconsistent with their keeping Peppers who's even more expensive and will likely have a more limited role.

[Bretsky]

So when there is a leak about a strained relationship between TT and MM about TT's draft and develope style it is ok but leaks about someone else that doesn't support your view you don't believe it.

works both ways; I note often in here real time live interviews from NFL network and am questioned on the source since it's not value without one. But some NFL source outside the organization leaks something and it's valid. I may have missed something here; but did our Packer NFL Beat writers report this ? If it is to me a person is far more valid that "a source outside the organization. The Packer know how to play the PR game. If I were GB I'd be throwing out leaks everywhere. They should.

[Bretsky]

Maybe I should have said, "information."

If you think that information is untrue, are you suggesting that GB management cut Sitton because they think Taylor's better? What could possibly be their reasoning?


Fair enough on the information note. Money perhaps.

But that is where I have a hard time with this. Why let money ruin anything; he's signed through this year. Take a hard line and tell him to play for next yrs contract. Hell if he's a locked room cancer they could suspend him although I'm doubtful it would get to that

[vince]

works both ways; I note often in here real time live interviews from NFL network and am questioned on the source since it's not value without one. But some NFL source outside the organization leaks something and it's valid. I may have missed something here; but did our Packer NFL Beat writers report this ? If it is to me a person is far more valid that "a source outside the organization. The Packer know how to play the PR game. If I were GB I'd be throwing out leaks everywhere. They should.
Making something like that up to cover some other (non-existent as of yet) reason for cutting him would have dire consequences with the rest of the players team. That doesn't make sense.

[vince]

Fair enough on the information note. Money perhaps.

But that is where I have a hard time with this. Why let money ruin anything; he's signed through this year. Take a hard line and tell him to play for next yrs contract. Hell if he's a locked room cancer they could suspend him although I'm doubtful it would get to that
The money motivation makes sense for Sitton to become "haughty" but is inconsistent for the team given Peppers would be a more "valuable" cut if that's the primary driver here.

[vince]

Fair enough on the information note. Money perhaps.

But that is where I have a hard time with this. Why let money ruin anything; he's signed through this year. Take a hard line and tell him to play for next yrs contract. Hell if he's a locked room cancer they could suspend him although I'm doubtful it would get to that
Good chance suspension just exacerbates and escalates the situation to become an even greater distraction. Sitton wanted a new deal. If he was quiet and accepting of not getting one I don't think it would have come to this. Again, I don't see any objective or logical conclusion that can be drawn any other way at this point but I'm open to it.

[Carolina_Packer]

I think this is probably the biggest factor.

I don't know if anyone else mentioned this, and it's obvious, but they DID keep him until the last roster cut down. What does that tell you? They were hoping to see something throughout TC and pre-season that never developed? They could have cut him any time during the off season (if trading him was not possible). Were they hoping to keep him this year, but something told them not to? That's what I'm trying to understand. Unfortunately, front office people are only going to say things like "We thank Josh for his contributions..." blah, blah and blah.

It's a curious move to not let him play out his deal and let him walk next off season for a c-pick. Hard to believe he still wouldn't have been one of their best options, and that the front office wasn't already committed to the cap hit he was going to have. There's something in that situation that nobody is going to air out in the press that doesn't feel right, but perhaps we'll see it in time.

Also, another obvious but curious point is that the Bears gave him a 3 year deal. Of course, it's always look at the guaranteed $$ in the deal and it may only really be a one year deal, especially if his back is cranky.

I don't think this is an arbitrary decision. I think situations like this leave the front office vulnerable to criticism that they are never going to explain/defend because they never say too much in defense of their decisions. Why would you? They are not running for class president, and they are not going to spill secrets, especially if there's anything medical affecting the evaluation of a player's standing with the team.

[hoosier]

An NFL source with ties to the Packers told me that in the team’s eyes Sitton had become haughty and uncommunicative. That jibes with a report by the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel’s Tom Silverstein that the Packers were unwilling to talk contract extension with Sitton and instead placed left tackle David Bakhtiari and center JC Tretter ahead of him on their contract-extension priority list.

Clearly, Thompson thought a problem was festering in his locker room, and Sitton’s age and bad back left him expendable even coming off a second-team All-Pro season.

This report sounds a little flimsy to me. Packers reportedly told Lang the same thing: that they wouldn't negotiate a new contract with him during the season and that Bahk and Tretter were going to be first priority. But Lang didn't get cut for mysterious reasons. Is there additional evidence, aside from one unnamed source, that Sitton had "clearly" become a locker room problem?

[vince]

This report sounds a little flimsy to me. Packers reportedly told Lang the same thing: that they wouldn't negotiate a new contract with him during the season and that Bahk and Tretter were going to be first priority. But Lang didn't get cut for mysterious reasons. Is there additional evidence, aside from one unnamed source, that Sitton had "clearly" become a locker room problem?
Not following that. They told Sitton and Lang they wouldn't renegotiate. Lang's on the team and Sitton is not. That reinforces the notion, not undermines it. that Sitton had a conniption while Lang did not.

[Carolina_Packer]

This report sounds a little flimsy to me. Packers reportedly told Lang the same thing: that they wouldn't negotiate a new contract with him during the season and that Bahk and Tretter were going to be first priority. But Lang didn't get cut for mysterious reasons. Is there additional evidence, aside from one unnamed source, that Sitton had "clearly" become a locker room problem?

I think I read that on Al Jazeera America's web site.

[vince]

If someone from inside the Packers organization leaked that, and it wasn't true, what do you think the response would be from the rest of the team who clearly would know Sitton was really a good soldier the whole time and had his character lied about by management?

If it's not true, what good could possibly come from making it up? It would be a disaster in the locker room and surely be quickly controverted.

[red]

its always a good day when you can make your own team much weaker and at the same time improve your most hated rival

[vince]

Unfortunately this isn't the simple world of Madden where the only thing you have to consider are skill points.

[pbmax]

This report sounds a little flimsy to me. Packers reportedly told Lang the same thing: that they wouldn't negotiate a new contract with him during the season and that Bahk and Tretter were going to be first priority. But Lang didn't get cut for mysterious reasons. Is there additional evidence, aside from one unnamed source, that Sitton had "clearly" become a locker room problem?

Flimsy yes, but perhaps consistent. Its possible Lang handled it better.

PROS
The timing from Ted gave him one more roster spot for a young one.
Saved the guaranteed money.
Gave Sitton time to find a new deal that would fully vest.
Balky back limited practice, not going to get better.
With injury, Sitton would much prefer getting paid now rather than later.

CONS
It took reps away from the guy who will replace him.
It gave the coaching staff one week to prep.
Gave Sitton a chance to sign within Division.
Can't see the current line being as strong without him.
Balky back didn't seem worse this year rather than last.


I am more impressed by the CONS list. But the bolded item might have been a contributing factor. If you play out your deal, the odds of getting another deal diminish due to age and chance of injury. Lang is mostly healthy, nothing chronic. But Sitton might be on a short time clock. That might be why Josh told Wilde this:



Asked directly what explanation the Packers gave him for the decision to release him, Sitton texted back, “Call my agent.”

A message left for Sitton’s agent, Jack Reale, was not immediately returned.

An ultimatum might have been delivered. Or a threat. Although we have Sitton's quote that he was prepared to play his last year out, he might have been prepared to periodically remind everyone. Perhaps he, like Jennings, had a sister with a Twitter account.

http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/32939/now-ex-packers-guard-josh-sitton-im-sad-i-will-be-leaving-green-bay

[pbmax]

If Sitton was prepared for a heel turn, this is one heck of a way to pro-actively avoid it. I hope Ted's info was right. We might never know.

[Pugger]

its always a good day when you can make your own team much weaker and at the same time improve your most hated rival

Do you believe the Bears will now be playoff bound because they upgraded their guard position? I'm relieved Sitton didn't go to Seattle!

[red]

Do you believe the Bears will now be playoff bound because they upgraded their guard position? I'm relieved Sitton didn't go to Seattle!

i believe their o-line is now much better. they were going to play a rookie at the spot who it doesn't sound was anywhere ready to start in the nfl

and a better o-line makes cutler much better. the best way to beat the bears is to rattle the shit out of jay and make him panic. that will be harder now imo

i don't know if they're playoff bound, but they might be good enough to beat us once or twice this year because of it

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'm with red on this one. Division games are usually close. Hell, the Lions beat the Pack last year. We play the Bears twice a year with possibility of meeting in playoffs. Sitton to Bears is unfortunate.

[Carolina_Packer]

I don't know if anyone quoted this article, but it ties into the speculation that Sitton was on the outs with the Packers' front office: http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2016/09/04/dougherty-sitton-release-lombardi-like/89817768/

Again, we don't really know for sure, but if true, then it seems like he took it personally that they were talking to the younger guys first, and perhaps they kept him around until the end of the pre-season to see about his health, but in the end to see if he was OK with playing out the last year of his contract. Seemingly he wasn't OK with just putting in his last season and going quietly, and when they couldn't find a trade partner, they cut him.

[vince]

McCarthy on the Josh Sitton release

This is about growth for our football program. Every decision we make is about improving all aspects of our program. This is not about one player, this is about our football team. I think any time you make decisions, you have to look at everything that’s involved...each player is evaluated. Each player that touches the locker room is evaluated because the locker room is the most important (place) in our building, in my opinion.

[Bretsky]

I don't know if anyone quoted this article, but it ties into the speculation that Sitton was on the outs with the Packers' front office: http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2016/09/04/dougherty-sitton-release-lombardi-like/89817768/

Again, we don't really know for sure, but if true, then it seems like he took it personally that they were talking to the younger guys first, and perhaps they kept him around until the end of the pre-season to see about his health, but in the end to see if he was OK with playing out the last year of his contract. Seemingly he wasn't OK with just putting in his last season and going quietly, and when they couldn't find a trade partner, they cut him.

A GOOD ARTICLE
I had not read all of that

Like this part
But that doesn’t mean cutting him was a mistake. Packers fans should find it encouraging that Thompson is showing Lombardi-like ruthlessness in pursuit of a title.



NOW Dear Ted.....Please bring us some Lombardi Like Results cause I'm sick of a fart in the wind

[Bretsky]

McCarthy on the Josh Sitton release

Leal by Leak....kudos to Vince.........it's becoming apparent you were right

[vince]

Regardless it sucks. Not a positive development to start the season.

McCarthy also made it clear Taylor is your starting LG.

[red]

A GOOD ARTICLE
I had not read all of that

Like this part
But that doesn’t mean cutting him was a mistake. Packers fans should find it encouraging that Thompson is showing Lombardi-like ruthlessness in pursuit of a title.



NOW Dear Ted.....Please bring us some Lombardi Like Results cause I'm sick of a fart in the wind

Lombardi would not survive in today's NFL imo

[Harlan Huckleby]

McCarthy also made it clear Taylor is your starting LG.

I'm sure Rodgers is thrilled.

[pbmax]

Leal by Leak....kudos to Vince.........it's becoming apparent you were right

There was a leak for the first item (haughty and uncommunicative) but vince's bolded quote was from a PC I believe.

[pbmax]

Regardless it sucks. Not a positive development to start the season.

McCarthy also made it clear Taylor is your starting LG.

I think Mike is huffing canned air.

[Harlan Huckleby]

winners: Josh Sitton, Lane Taylor
Losers: Packers
TBD: Bears


Sitton becomes a FA a year early - at an age where a year means a lot. Gets himself a raise and possibly extends his career. I'm not saying TT made a bad move, perhaps he made the best of a bad situation. But if I'm a 30-year-old player in contract year where GM is being coy, I think I'd try being haughty and non-communicative in the locker room.

[pbmax]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 2h2 hours ago
McCarthy: Lane Taylor will start at LG. I have all the confidence in the world in Lane. He’s earned this opportunity.

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 2h2 hours ago
McCarthy on Lane Taylor: You have to look at the video. It’s pre-season and I was very confident in how he played. He was physical.

Could it be that M3 is actually convinced of this?

[vince]

winners: Josh Sitton, Lane Taylor
Losers: Packers
TBD: Bears


Sitton becomes a FA a year early - at an age where a year means a lot. Gets himself a raise and possibly extends his career. I'm not saying TT made a bad move, perhaps he made the best of a bad situation. But if I'm a 30-year-old player in contract year where GM is being coy, I think I'd try being haughty and non-communicative in the locker room.I don't agree with the ethic of basically threatening to blow up the season of 52 comrades and coaching staff with whom you've shared blood, sweat and tears with over the past 8 years or whatever. No redeeming human quality in that. I do agree that it worked to his personal financial advantage though.

[pbmax]

McCarthy at NFL annual meetings in March:


The last time McCarthy was asked about Taylor was on March 23 at the NFL annual meetings. It came during NFC coaches breakfast, where questions about players like Taylor are often necessary to fill the hour-long availability.

Taylor had just been re-signed to a two-year, $4.15 million contract that contained just a $600,000 signing bonus commensurate with a backup who had started only two career NFL games. In first-year money, Taylor will earn $1.75 million -- or only slightly more than he would have received if the Packers gave him the low restricted free-agent tender of $1.671 million.

“I thought Lane took a big jump this year,” McCarthy said way back in March. “Lane has always been a good run player. His pass protection has really picked up. I was thrilled we were able to get him signed and get him back. I think he’s ready to challenge a starter-type level.”

http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/33009/lane-taylor-with-2-career-starts-next-up-after-packers-dump-josh-sitton

Did M3 and Campen anoint Taylor starter ready and give Ted all the reason he needed to clear cap space and eliminate a public negotiation next Spring?

[pbmax]

I don't agree with the ethic of basically threatening to blow up the season of 52 comrades and coaching staff with whom you've shared blood, sweat and tears with over the past 8 years or whatever. No redeeming human quality in that. I do agree that it worked to his personal financial advantage though.

The idea that Sitton wanted to be paid sooner rather than later and the idea that McCarthy might very well think Taylor is ready to start, basically squares this weird circle of roster news.

It might work out for both if M3 and his coaches are right.

However, McCarthy has praised players before in the offseason and it had not always proven accurate in terms of starting success.

[red]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 2h2 hours ago
McCarthy: Lane Taylor will start at LG. I have all the confidence in the world in Lane. He’s earned this opportunity.

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 2h2 hours ago
McCarthy on Lane Taylor: You have to look at the video. It’s pre-season and I was very confident in how he played. He was physical.

Could it be that M3 is actually convinced of this?

that just makes it that much worse

although i did read somewhere today that we are looking at some undrafted free agent that was cut by the 49ers whose just happens to play LG

did we really just make the sitton move with no plan B? (and no, lane taylor doesn't count as a plan B, he's more like a plan D or F

[pbmax]

This is what I saw:


His most recent outing, the preseason finale at Kansas City, was a struggle. He started at left guard with the No. 2 line, played 54 of 62 snaps and was penalized three times -- twice for holding and once for a false start.

From same Demovsky ESPN article.

[vince]

The idea that Sitton wanted to be paid sooner rather than later and the idea that McCarthy might very well think Taylor is ready to start, basically squares this weird circle of roster news.

It might work out for both if M3 and his coaches are right.

However, McCarthy has praised players before in the offseason and it had not always proven accurate in terms of starting success.
I'd say their fully aware of the skill level differential between the two, and have a far more accurate assessment of Taylor's ability and performance than any of us regardless of what's said at a PC (what else is he gonna say?). I think it goes back to the point you made earlier in this thread about how we're talking about an offensive guard spot not QB.

[pbmax]

I'd say their fully aware of the skill level differential between the two, and have a far more accurate assessment of Taylor's ability and performance than any of us regardless of what's said at a PC. I think it goes back to the point you made earlier in this thread about how we're talking about an offensive guard spot not QB.

I want McCarthy's public statements on Taylor to be true, I just have never seen that player.

So I hold on to the hope that you are right, that they recognize the drop off and are prepared.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I don't agree with the ethic of basically threatening to blow up the season of 52 comrades and coaching staff with whom you've shared blood, sweat and tears with over the past 8 years or whatever.

Well, what you are saying is loyalty must be one way. The GM can cut-and-slash, or refuse to negotiate, and that is "just business." Vinc Lombardi stuff. But if the player acts haughty and non-communicative (your characterization is a bit over the top), then they are disloyal. I say in both cases it is "just business."

[red]

i can imagine it now

sitton at TT's office door knocking on it

sitton- ted can we talk about a new contract

TT-(hiding under desk)- he's not here, go away please

sitton- i just want to ask if we can work out an extension

TT- please just leave me alone, if you want to communicate with me, send a letter to my assistant

sitton- ted i know your in there, lets just talk it out now

TT- PLEASE JUST GO

sitton leaves

TT calls m3- mike we have a problem. sitton was just being very aggressive towards me about a new contract

m3- its ok teddy, lets just get rid of him so that doesn't happen again. now let me come up and suck you off to relax you

[vince]

I want McCarthy's public statements on Taylor to be true, I just have never seen that player.

So I hold on to the hope that you are right, that they recognize the drop off and are prepared.
Well we'll find out in time how he performs but how would anyone benefit if McCarthy said, "Well we just cut an all-pro and are now starting a guy who we don't know for sure whether he's good enough."

That's probably the truth but that's not gonna happen.

[Harlan Huckleby]

red, it's like you were a fly on the wall.

[red]

Well, what you are saying is loyalty must be one way. The GM can cut-and-slash, or refuse to negotiate, and that is "just business." But if the player acts haughty and non-communicative (your characterization is a bit over the top), then they are disloyal. I say in both cases it is "just business."

yup, why we shit on the players all the time for doing the same thing the teams do all the time is beyond me.

look at the whole bosa saga, who was the bad guy there? bosa of course. even though both sides were playing hard ball

[pbmax]

Well we'll find out in time how he performs but how would anyone benefit if McCarthy said, "Well we just cut an all-pro and are now starting a guy who we don't know for sure whether he's good enough."

That's probably the truth but that's not gonna happen.

Oh, he can't bail publicly now. I just wonder if there is any actual through line between his comments last spring about Taylor (and his 2 year contract extension with a bonus) and the release of Sitton.

[red]

ted doing business


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CW5YTsD9rF0

[Pugger]

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 2h2 hours ago
McCarthy: Lane Taylor will start at LG. I have all the confidence in the world in Lane. He’s earned this opportunity.

Tom Silverstein ‏@TomSilverstein 2h2 hours ago
McCarthy on Lane Taylor: You have to look at the video. It’s pre-season and I was very confident in how he played. He was physical.

Could it be that M3 is actually convinced of this?

What else is he gonna say, Lane sucks?

[vince]

Harlan, you're suggesting that becoming a lockerroom cancer as a negotiating strategy is ethically acceptable?

These guys need to take care of their business no doubt, but respect your teammates and keep it out of the locker room.

It's absolutely team coaches and management's responsibility to keep that from happening.

[Harlan Huckleby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rtDAK7Umk7A

[Pugger]

winners: Josh Sitton, Lane Taylor
Losers: Packers
TBD: Bears


Sitton becomes a FA a year early - at an age where a year means a lot. Gets himself a raise and possibly extends his career. I'm not saying TT made a bad move, perhaps he made the best of a bad situation. But if I'm a 30-year-old player in contract year where GM is being coy, I think I'd try being haughty and non-communicative in the locker room.

If you guys think our team is now screwed because we lost our starting LG our problems are deeper than any of us care to ponder.

It sucks we lost Sitton but we've survived and thrived offensively with worse guards than Lane Taylor.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Harlan, you're suggesting that becoming a lockerroom cancer as a negotiating strategy is ethically acceptable?

These guys need to take care of their business no doubt, but respect your teammates and keep it out of the locker room.

You're defining haughty as a locker room cancer. I seriously doubt any of the players saw him as a cancer. He was a cancer to management because he was demanding a negotiation. They wanted to discourage that sort of uppity behavior by the help.

I bet you will find that players are distraught over their team being weakened. Sitton was reportedly a leader on the line.

[Harlan Huckleby]

It sucks we lost Sitton but we've survived and thrived offensively with worse guards than Lane Taylor.

Not sure this is true.

But maybe we'll see the good Lane, not the passing Lane this season. Or at a minimum he'll continue to improve. I'm not selling my Packer season tickets over this move. (They are imaginary, but they mean a lot to me.)

[Pugger]

We won a SB in 2010 with Daryn Freaking Colledge at LG. And right now Lang is the better guard than Sitton is presently, IMO. The sky isn't falling, gentlemen.

[vince]

You're defining haughty as a locker room cancer. I seriously doubt any of the players saw him as a cancer. He was a cancer to management because he was demanding a negotiation. They wanted to discourage that sort of uppity behavior by the help.

I bet you will find that players are distraught over their team being weakened. Sitton was reportedly a leader on the line.
McCarthy said it became a locker room issue not me. Had it not penetrated the locker room there would be little motivation to eliminate it. Your "management exploitation of the help" interpretation is based on bias not reality based on everything that I've read about this situation. Perhaps you've read something I didn't but I'd love to hear it.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

i can imagine it now

sitton at TT's office door knocking on it

sitton- ted can we talk about a new contract

TT-(hiding under desk)- he's not here, go away please

sitton- i just want to ask if we can work out an extension

TT- please just leave me alone, if you want to communicate with me, send a letter to my assistant

sitton- ted i know your in there, lets just talk it out now

TT- PLEASE JUST GO

sitton leaves

TT calls m3- mike we have a problem. sitton was just being very aggressive towards me about a new contract

m3- its ok teddy, lets just get rid of him so that doesn't happen again. now let me come up and suck you off to relax you

lol

[Harlan Huckleby]

Pugger, I generally agree with what you say, but Colledge was not a bad player. He had a long career as an NFL starter.

[Harlan Huckleby]

McCarthy said it became a locker room issue not me. Had it not penetrated the locker room there would be little motivation to eliminate it. Your "management exploitation of the help" interpretation is based on bias not reality based on everything that I've read about this situation. Perhaps you've read something I didn't but I'd love to hear it.

You've accepted management's side of the story as the whole story. You have zero facts to judge Sitton's behavior.

Of course management says they were the reasonable party and Sitton was the disloyal one. TT refuses to negotiate, that is just business. When Sitton is haughty, that's bad character. Suggesting that management cut Sitton to set an example is conjecture on my part. But a reasonable interpretation.

[vince]

I think it's completely unreasonable to believe McCarthy would suggest it was a locker room issue if that were not true. He needs to lead his team and there's no better way to lose these guys than to assassinate the character of one of the team leaders as he gets shown the door. He'd have no credibility whatsoever in the locker room.

I don't know how smart McCarthy is, but I know he's not that dumb.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Just a speculative question: What do you think Aaron Rodgers would say about this move if we put him under the bright lights and broke him? Do you think he would say that he is relieved to be rid of a cancer? Or do you think he would utter a curse word?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I think it's completely unreasonable to believe McCarthy would suggest it was a locker room issue if that were not true.

Yes, but Sitton being mad about management refusing to negotiate could be how McCarthy defines a "locker room issue."

We're judging a situation from afar.

I agree with you Sitton agreed to give his best in 2016 as part of his contract and owes it to the team. BTW, why would he not do that when he is in a critical contract year?

[vince]

Just a speculative question: What do you think Aaron Rodgers would say about this move if we put him under the bright lights and broke him? Do you think he would say that he is relieved to be rid of a cancer? Or do you think he would utter a curse word?
I'd say none of the players, especially Rodgers, wanted Sitton to be cut. But he'll probably have to respect the decision if it impacted team unity as they're working their asses off to make a Super Bowl run.

He'd probably lead the team strike if he was cut for no good reason and McCarthy made up shit about him on the way out the door.

[vince]

Yes, but Sitton being mad about management refusing to negotiate could be how McCarthy defines a "locker room issue."

We're judging a situation from afar.

I agree with you Sitton agreed to give his best in 2016 as part of his contract and owes it to the team. BTW, why would he not do that when he is in a critical contract year?
As you noted, it was in his personal financial interests, and he thought the Packers owed it to him to be a priority.

[Harlan Huckleby]

When you think about it, it was perfectly stupid situation. Sitton had no reason to be mad, even if TT signaled that this was his last year in GB. You would think Sitton and TT could talk this through and shake hands, regardless of TT's decision. I am not sure whether TT or Sitton fucked this relationship up, but something went wrong.

[vince]

Agreed. Though to be technical Sitton personally felt good reason to be mad. He felt he earned the right to be top dog and was snubbed. While I think they were correct in putting the younger guys as higher priority, I can see how that might piss Sitton off.

Or, perhaps it was a strategy drummed up by his agent to gain financial advantage. To that end, it worked out for him.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Maybe if MM had relaxed TT BEFORE he talked to Sitton this all could have been avoided.

[pbmax]

Pugger, I generally agree with what you say, but Colledge was not a bad player. He had a long career as an NFL starter.

Colledge got a serious second contract from the Cardinals and played through the majority of it. Lane Taylor isn't there yet, agreed. But if you are going to have a weak link, better there than at LT.

[Zool]

I recall Ted letting a couple other guards go a few years back and everyone freaked out. Rivera played about 10 more games in the NFL. Maybe this is Marco 2.0. Let's just hope Lane doesn't suck like that kid he picked up from NE.

[George Cumby]

I'll bet Sitton doesn't make it to the end of the season.

I virtually guarantee he doesn't finish out this contract.

[hoosier]

Not following that. They told Sitton and Lang they wouldn't renegotiate. Lang's on the team and Sitton is not. That reinforces the notion, not undermines it. that Sitton had a conniption while Lang did not.

I would say that notion is speculative. There is evidence to support it, yes, but it's circumstantial evidence. I guess I don't find it overwhelming circumstantial evidence the way Daugherty seems to. Isn't it also possible that the Packers had simply decided Sitton is in decline and no longer worth the $6M and that, in the long run, they were better off developing someone who could be playing better than Sitton by next year? I think it seems likely but not certain that player attitude had a role in this.

[King Friday]

For the Packer brass, it sends an important message to the TEAM that griping about contracts and looking out for yourself isn't tolerated. While the Packers take it in the shorts a bit on this one, they may head off a larger problems down the road due to how they handled this one. This was an unfortunate situation, but that is how the NFL works and it isn't the last time we'll see it.

If Sitton can get the ax, then 95% of the other guys in the locker room can too. Sure, Sitton got a little more money elsewhere...but he's playing for Chicago, a team with only one Sunday night game and who is still a long shot to reach the playoffs even with everything that has worked to their favor in that regard over the last week. To be honest, he may not really have earned much more...since with a good 2016 in Green Bay, he may have earned a new 3 year deal similar to the one he just signed AFTER this season and made more money in the long run. Other guys on the team have taken a little less to stay in Green Bay (such as Cobb) where they know that regular prime time exposure and continual playoff appearances pay off more in the end in terms of endorsements and future gigs after playing days are up. Sitton just made himself an enemy to the Green Bay fans, which he will come to regret in time...just as others who pulled similar stunts have.

[pbmax]

M3 PC:

“There’s a lot of things that go into this decision,” McCarthy said. “This was not just one thing. With that, it was tough.

“I believe there are positions in football that are primary positions and some positions that are not to that level. There are some positions you put in front of the others.”

Read more: http://www.packers.com/news-and-events/article-daily-news-story/article-1/Lane-Taylor-to-start-at-left-guard-for-Packers-in-Jacksonville/f702e7b3-ca4a-44d6-9f5e-e11532522576#ixzz4JPenkhK7

[King Friday]

I despise the phrasing "put some positions in front of the others". I understand the sentiment he was getting at, but that choice of wording doesn't sound very good.

Just say that in the era of the salary cap, it is sometimes necessary to forego a large contract to an aging veteran so you can have the resources to keep younger, team-developed talent who also require a payday. While it is true that Sitton's position was one that made him more expendable than other positions might have, it was also his age and injury potential. If Sitton was 26, he'd likely still be playing for the Packers...OG or not.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Sitton just made himself an enemy to the Green Bay fans, which he will come to regret in time...just as others who pulled similar stunts have.
Unreal. Sitton is an enemy of the people because the Packers cut him? You have zero idea what actually happened.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Just say that in the era of the salary cap, it is sometimes necessary to forego a large contract to an aging veteran so you can have the resources to keep younger, team-developed talent who also require a payday.

Fine. so why are you blaming Sitton?

[pbmax]

For the Packer brass, it sends an important message to the TEAM that griping about contracts and looking out for yourself isn't tolerated. While the Packers take it in the shorts a bit on this one, they may head off a larger problems down the road due to how they handled this one. This was an unfortunate situation, but that is how the NFL works and it isn't the last time we'll see it.


Wilde asked the question about the locker room post-Sitton, phrasing it in terms of potential effect. McCarthy did answer that everyone, players included, are evaluated in terms of the effect it might have on the locker room.

I'm not sure this was a confirmation of the haughty and uncommunicative report that it looks out of context. He didn't deny to or go around the question, but he also didn't address it directly. The most I would glean from this is that Sitton *might* have become a problem and that was a cause for concern.

So I don't think we have any confirmation that he was a locker room cancer.

Video: http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/McCarthy-About-growth-for-our-football-program/329f660e-6e22-40fd-b356-495e3cc50510

[Harlan Huckleby]

For the Packer brass, it sends an important message to the TEAM that griping about contracts and looking out for yourself isn't tolerated.

So we are in agreement that the PAcker brass was probably sending a message. It is a little funny that Sitton is accused of being both non-communicative and doing excessive griping.

This is all bullshit. The GM gets compared to Vince Lombardi when he plays hardball. The player's character is damned based on no evidence when there is a contract dispute. Always works this way, especially in WI's authoritarian culture.

[Pugger]

Pugger, I generally agree with what you say, but Colledge was not a bad player. He had a long career as an NFL starter.

He was average and yes, a lot of guys like him carve out a nice career playing like he did.

Sitton wasn't the player he is today when he started his career so perhaps Taylor can be developed just like Josh was.

[Pugger]

Yes, but Sitton being mad about management refusing to negotiate could be how McCarthy defines a "locker room issue."

We're judging a situation from afar.

I agree with you Sitton agreed to give his best in 2016 as part of his contract and owes it to the team. BTW, why would he not do that when he is in a critical contract year?

I'm happy for Josh for the deal he got from the Bears. There was no way he was gonna get that from us in 2017. But maybe now we can keep the rest of our line intact in 2017 and beyond.

[smuggler]

Only way I can see Sitton as the bad guy in this is if he was getting shitty specifically to be released and become a free agent. If he has a bad attitude (**if**) and it was earnest and not strategic, he's really no different than any other high-profile player.

[pbmax]

I would prefer strategic bad attitude, actually.

Easier to deal with the predictable than the unpredictable folks losing their heads. For examples, watch any Bengals playoff game. :lol:

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'll bet Sitton doesn't make it to the end of the season.

I virtually guarantee he doesn't finish out this contract.

I would not be at all surprised if he contracted AIDS.

Sitton got too big for his britches. He was disloyal.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UV1hjNyaaF4