R-E-L-A-X

[HarveyWallbangers]

I kind of like how this team looks. I think a lot of the blame can actually fall on Rodgers and McCarthy. Rodgers is just out of sync. However, I think Adams and Cobb look healthy. Jordy is getting into shape. Cook will be a weapon. Lacy looks good. The defense looks solid.

McCarthy doesn't need to prove to people that he's not a conservative coach. If you have a chance to tie a ball game late in the third quarter against a stout defense, you do it. That changed the complexion of the game. I'd like to see them go with four WR sets and mix in Abby and Monty more. Cobb and Abby or Monty (rotating them) in the slot to give DBs a different look. I'd also like to see them with a set where Cobb and Monty are in the backfield together. Mix things up. The offense is too stagnant. Give Lacy more carries also. He looks good. I know they want to keep him fresh, but he needs a few more carries.

Rodgers needs to get back to fundamentals and he needs to quit holding onto the ball. He gets in these ruts from time to time. My biggest concern is Sam Shields. This team is a lot different without him. Somebody that you don't appreciate until he's not in there. It's a bit like losing Jordy at WR. It just throws the hole hierarchy out of whack.

We'll see, but our next 9 games are:

All at home: Detroit, Giants, Dallas, Chicago
At Atlanta
Indy at home
At Tennessee, at Washington, at Philadelphia

[RashanGary]

There are a lot of reasons to feel good about this team! They have the making of a good running team and they have a good defensive front. Like you said, with a healthy shields we have a good secondary too. Let's see how it all blends together before we jump to conclusions.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Ain't gonna relax 'til the offense starts playing like 2011 again.

[Pugger]

If we think about it we went on the road against a divisional rival who was christening a shiny new greenhouse with a very good defense. We played like garbage at times and came up short because MM foolishly didn't go for the sure points to tie the game and that was the difference. Detroit ain't MN and I just can't see MN going to Carolina without the threat of AP and winning there next week.

[vince]

I kind of like how this team looks. I think a lot of the blame can actually fall on Rodgers and McCarthy. Rodgers is just out of sync. However, I think Adams and Cobb look healthy. Jordy is getting into shape. Cook will be a weapon. Lacy looks good. The defense looks solid.

McCarthy doesn't need to prove to people that he's not a conservative coach. If you have a chance to tie a ball game late in the third quarter against a stout defense, you do it. That changed the complexion of the game. I'd like to see them go with four WR sets and mix in Abby and Monty more. Cobb and Abby or Monty (rotating them) in the slot to give DBs a different look. I'd also like to see them with a set where Cobb and Monty are in the backfield together. Mix things up. The offense is too stagnant. Give Lacy more carries also. He looks good. I know they want to keep him fresh, but he needs a few more carries.

Rodgers needs to get back to fundamentals and he needs to quit holding onto the ball. He gets in these ruts from time to time. My biggest concern is Sam Shields. This team is a lot different without him. Somebody that you don't appreciate until he's not in there. It's a bit like losing Jordy at WR. It just throws the hole hierarchy out of whack.

We'll see, but our next 9 games are:

All at home: Detroit, Giants, Dallas, Chicago
At Atlanta
Indy at home
At Tennessee, at Washington, at Philadelphia
Good post. I think the biggest thing is Rodgers getting the ball out. Get the tempo of the offense up instead of running the play clock down from no-huddle trying to out-scheme the D at the line every play.

[texaspackerbacker]

I still say the bulk of the blame falls on the O Line. Sure, Rodgers shoulda had better ball security, but he never shoulda had to run for his life like that over and over and over. If Rodgers only had time to drop back, allow receivers to run a pattern, and throw it, but he virtually never does.

I blame McCarthy - as usual, games won and games lost - for lousy play calling. Too much run-first, even run twice then force a situation where the whole world knows a pass is needed on 3rd and long or medium. It's like he tries to kill the clock for about 3 1/2 quarters then expects Rodgers to bring home a win at the end. I wish he'd get it through his head, what works in desperation time would work all game. Hell, there shouldn't/wouldn't even be a desperation time.

I blame Ted Thompson for not building a better team around Rodgers. Other teams find gems like Hurns/Robinson and Diggs; We get stuck with Davante Adams. We draft a Corner in the first and get stuck with Damarious Randall. Ditto that for just about every position group. Other teams actually cough up some money for a worthwhile free agent occasionally. Why does just about everybody's O Line outplay our D Line? Why does just about everybody's D Line outplay our O Line? I'll tell you why; Because for Thompson/McCarthy, good enough is good enough - they never maximize things. And the result of that mediocrity is sometimes, good enough is not good enough, even with Aaron Rodgers STILL masking shortcomings in just about every area of the team.

And WHY in hell did they cut a very decent rookie and and adequate veteran to get this all out piece of shit punter?

[pbmax]

Tex, McCarthy and Rodgers called 20 runs. 3 runs were Rodgers escaping the pocket. Attempted 36 passes in addition to that. So the ratio for the game is:

Run 20 : Pass 39

That not too much running. He tried to make it work in the first half and it wasn't happening.

Rodgers was 3 for 29. RBs were 20 for 54 (Starks was terrible, Lacy was much more respectable 12 for 50).

The Packers needed to pass in an environment that their tackles could not get good starts. Of course they were going to be under the gun. The short passing game was ineffectual and they couldn't complete a long pass to save their life.

Harv makes some good points re the O line and the health of the offense. Also Cook will only get more involved. But this pattern is very familiar now. Its been going on for 14 games.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Cook might turn out to be a good player who is not an elite receiver. This is his eighth season, if he was really Jermichael Finley he would be outside of TT's price range.

[gbgary]

we supposedly have the easiest schedule in the league. the way the o is performing i don't see it that way. every game is going to be a last minute victory or loss. the d is playing well and what troubles it has can be fixed. it's not a talent problem.

[Rutnstrut]

we supposedly have the easiest schedule in the league. the way the o is performing i don't see it that way. every game is going to be a last minute victory or loss. the d is playing well and what troubles it has can be fixed. it's not a talent problem.

Edited for lack of reading comp. I hate Mondays!!!!

[Patler]

Cook might turn out to be a good player who is not an elite receiver. This is his eighth season, if he was really Jermichael Finley he would be outside of TT's price range.

Was Finley ever out of TT's price range? Cook might actually be Finley as Finley really was, but not as some want to remember what Finley was.

It seems like Finley is getting better and better the longer it is from when he played.

[Tony Oday]

Finley had crisco on his hands, he was all potential.

I would like to see AR get some more accuracy. He missed three deep balls and was off on the perimeter passes.

[Freak Out]

Was Monty targeted at all? We have been waiting for this guy to come back because he added a nice twist to the offense...what gives?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Was Finley ever out of TT's price range? Cook might actually be Finley as Finley really was, but not as some want to remember what Finley was.

It seems like Finley is getting better and better the longer it is from when he played.

J-Mike was a damn good "modern-day" TE. Too fast for LBs. Too big for DBs. Excellent route-runner. Awesome after the catch.

J-Mike didn't put up Gronkish numbers b/c there's only 1 rock and the Great Arm of Butte also had to feed the egos of young uns like Jennings, Nelson, Cobb and Jones, as well as the ole stud Driver. J-Mike's presence alone opened up mano-a-mano opportunities for the aforementioned receivers, forcing opponents to "pick their poison."

Fuck Hades and his 4 inch cock in that J-Mike's career ended prematurely. The Packers madly could've used J-Mike last season.

[Patler]

Was Monty targeted at all? We have been waiting for this guy to come back because he added a nice twist to the offense...what gives?

We're saving it for the playoffs.

[Patler]

J-Mike was a damn good "modern-day" TE. Too fast for LBs. Too big for DBs. Excellent route-runner. Awesome after the catch.

J-Mike didn't put up Gronkish numbers b/c there's only 1 rock and the Great Arm of Butte also had to feed the egos of young uns like Jennings, Nelson, Cobb and Jones, as well as the ole stud Driver. J-Mike's presence alone opened up mano-a-mano opportunities for the aforementioned receivers, forcing opponents to "pick their poison."

Fuck Hades and his 4 inch cock in that J-Mike's career ended prematurely. The Packers madly could've used J-Mike last season.

You might be the only person I know who thinks Finley was an "excellent route-runner."

I do agree that losing him was a negative thing, however.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You might be the only person I know who thinks Finley was an "excellent route-runner."

I do agree that losing him was a negative thing, however.

The film don't lie. Watch how J-Mike runs routes. Excellent, indeed.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZKsvNW4Fol0

[Patler]

Sorry, but a highlight reel about Finley is no more convincing than similar highlight reels about prospects. All it means is that someone found a dozen or so plays in which he did do a good job. A few accidentally well run routes do not make anyone an "excellent route runner" and for all we know those were just that, accidentally well run.

[King Friday]

I like the team. The talent is there.

I'm growing to hate the head coach. He's a small minded simpleton who makes enormous strategical errors in critical moments.

[run pMc]

Tex, McCarthy and Rodgers called 20 runs. 3 runs were Rodgers escaping the pocket. Attempted 36 passes in addition to that. So the ratio for the game is:

Run 20 : Pass 39

That not too much running. He tried to make it work in the first half and it wasn't happening.

Rodgers was 3 for 29. RBs were 20 for 54 (Starks was terrible, Lacy was much more respectable 12 for 50).

The Packers needed to pass in an environment that their tackles could not get good starts. Of course they were going to be under the gun. The short passing game was ineffectual and they couldn't complete a long pass to save their life.

Harv makes some good points re the O line and the health of the offense. Also Cook will only get more involved. But this pattern is very familiar now. Its been going on for 14 games.

So...pass to set up the run? Doesn't that usually involve the short-passing game? Wouldn't that be something our quicker slot WRs could do (Cobb, Ty, Abbrederis)?
It seemed like they couldn't sustain any drives; they'd run Lacy on 1st down for 4 yards, then Rodgers would throw two incompletions.

[Maxie the Taxi]

So...pass to set up the run? Doesn't that usually involve the short-passing game? Wouldn't that be something our quicker slot WRs could do (Cobb, Ty, Abbrederis)?
It seemed like they couldn't sustain any drives; they'd run Lacy on 1st down for 4 yards, then Rodgers would throw two incompletions.I just watched the first quarter over again and on several occasions Arod could have thrown short cause a guy was open, but opted to go downfield. He and Stubby like big plays. It's what they do.

[deake]

Really bad field position in both games, not helped at all by the new punter. Are there any unemployed kickers out there that can kick it farther than 30 yards? Maybe sign a new guy?

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex, McCarthy and Rodgers called 20 runs. 3 runs were Rodgers escaping the pocket. Attempted 36 passes in addition to that. So the ratio for the game is:

Run 20 : Pass 39

That not too much running. He tried to make it work in the first half and it wasn't happening.

Rodgers was 3 for 29. RBs were 20 for 54 (Starks was terrible, Lacy was much more respectable 12 for 50).

The Packers needed to pass in an environment that their tackles could not get good starts. Of course they were going to be under the gun. The short passing game was ineffectual and they couldn't complete a long pass to save their life.

Harv makes some good points re the O line and the health of the offense. Also Cook will only get more involved. But this pattern is very familiar now. Its been going on for 14 games.

Yeah but ........ I'm pretty sure that ratio was extremely back loaded on passes - desperation time, after the damage was done. If you have a dominant O Line and/or a mediocre QB, then you run-first. If you have a very mediocre O Line and the world's greatest QB, you PASS FIRST, and maybe catch 'em by surprise once in a while with a run. That should be obvious - but it ain't to McCarthy, and seemingly to many in this forum.

[pbmax]

So...pass to set up the run? Doesn't that usually involve the short-passing game? Wouldn't that be something our quicker slot WRs could do (Cobb, Ty, Abbrederis)?
It seemed like they couldn't sustain any drives; they'd run Lacy on 1st down for 4 yards, then Rodgers would throw two incompletions.

McCarthy's offense, going back to Favre, has never done 12 short passes per drive for Touchdowns. They are looking deep much, much more.

When forced to keep it short, you get what we have seen for the last 16 games.

[pbmax]

Yeah but ........ I'm pretty sure that ratio was extremely back loaded on passes - desperation time, after the damage was done. If you have a dominant O Line and/or a mediocre QB, then you run-first. If you have a very mediocre O Line and the world's greatest QB, you PASS FIRST, and maybe catch 'em by surprise once in a while with a run. That should be obvious - but it ain't to McCarthy, and seemingly to many in this forum.

It was 15 passes and 9 runs in the first half tex.

http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/56931/MIN_Gamebook.pdf

[Pugger]

I like the team. The talent is there.

I'm growing to hate the head coach. He's a small minded simpleton who makes enormous strategical errors in critical moments.

Then let the sucking and losing continue. That will be the only way he'll get canned.

[texaspackerbacker]

It was 15 passes and 9 runs in the first half tex.

http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/56931/MIN_Gamebook.pdf

Like I said. That's not nearly enough with this QB and this O Line. If you want to break down the numbers more, how many of those passes were in obvious passing situations because they frittered away one or two downs with lame ass runs?

[texaspackerbacker]

Really bad field position in both games, not helped at all by the new punter. Are there any unemployed kickers out there that can kick it farther than 30 yards? Maybe sign a new guy?

Damn straight. Did Mortell ever sign with anybody else? Or heaven forbid, even Masthay? Both were way better than this new piece-of-crap.

[Carolina_Packer]

Tex, McCarthy and Rodgers called 20 runs. 3 runs were Rodgers escaping the pocket. Attempted 36 passes in addition to that. So the ratio for the game is:

Run 20 : Pass 39

That not too much running. He tried to make it work in the first half and it wasn't happening.

Rodgers was 3 for 29. RBs were 20 for 54 (Starks was terrible, Lacy was much more respectable 12 for 50).

The Packers needed to pass in an environment that their tackles could not get good starts. Of course they were going to be under the gun. The short passing game was ineffectual and they couldn't complete a long pass to save their life.

Harv makes some good points re the O line and the health of the offense. Also Cook will only get more involved. But this pattern is very familiar now. Its been going on for 14 games.

Whether intentional or not, the perception seems to be we must win with Aaron throwing a lot instead of simply calling the game and adjusting. If Lacy gets a hot hand, or Starks, then let them have more focus during that particular game. If the opponent knows that you are forcing a game plan, they are going just change to the template that defenses have used to stop the Packers offense since the slump started last season. Is MM willing to try and emphasize Lacy and run game more, try and establish the run more instead of letting it disappear in a one score game, or does he feel "obligated" by pay or perception of his star QB to ride Aaron's talents no matter what? Sometimes trying harder is the worst thing you can do.

[texaspackerbacker]

Whether intentional or not, the perception seems to be we must win with Aaron throwing a lot instead of simply calling the game and adjusting. If Lacy gets a hot hand, or Starks, then let them have more focus during that particular game. If the opponent knows that you are forcing a game plan, they are going just change to the template that defenses have used to stop the Packers offense since the slump started last season. Is MM willing to try and emphasize Lacy and run game more, try and establish the run more instead of letting it disappear in a one score game, or does he feel "obligated" by pay or perception of his star QB to ride Aaron's talents no matter what? Sometimes trying harder is the worst thing you can do.

In this case, perception is reality. The reason they won't/CAN'T stick with run-first - why it disappears in most games - is that it simply doesn't work with this O Line. The damn shame of it is McCarthy sticks with that run-first mentality so damn long before finally getting the message. It ain't like the Badgers against most of the Big Ten. The key to Lacy or Starks "getting the hot hand" is running as a change of pace after a bunch of pass plays. The only "obligation" I see is the obsession to run to set up the pass when it SHOULD be the other way around.

[KYPack]

Finely couldn't run routes for shit his first few years. He eventually learned how to run routes and even threw in an effective block here and there at the end.

He was green as goose shit when he started and when he learned the job, he was shot physically.

There are many guys with similar stories/learning curves.

[Pugger]

Really bad field position in both games, not helped at all by the new punter. Are there any unemployed kickers out there that can kick it farther than 30 yards? Maybe sign a new guy?

Masthay? ;-)

[Pugger]

Whether intentional or not, the perception seems to be we must win with Aaron throwing a lot instead of simply calling the game and adjusting. If Lacy gets a hot hand, or Starks, then let them have more focus during that particular game. If the opponent knows that you are forcing a game plan, they are going just change to the template that defenses have used to stop the Packers offense since the slump started last season. Is MM willing to try and emphasize Lacy and run game more, try and establish the run more instead of letting it disappear in a one score game, or does he feel "obligated" by pay or perception of his star QB to ride Aaron's talents no matter what? Sometimes trying harder is the worst thing you can do.

Yes, whatever became of the notion of taking what the damn defense gives you?

[Pugger]

In this case, perception is reality. The reason they won't/CAN'T stick with run-first - why it disappears in most games - is that it simply doesn't work with this O Line. The damn shame of it is McCarthy sticks with that run-first mentality so damn long before finally getting the message. It ain't like the Badgers against most of the Big Ten. The key to Lacy or Starks "getting the hot hand" is running as a change of pace after a bunch of pass plays. The only "obligation" I see is the obsession to run to set up the pass when it SHOULD be the other way around.

I wonder how often Rodgers changes run plays at the LOS to a pass play?

I do think we should run Eddie into the ground. Most backs like him only get better if they get a lot of touches and wear out a defense.

[Pugger]

Finely couldn't run routes for shit his first few years. He eventually learned how to run routes and even threw in an effective block here and there at the end.

He was green as goose shit when he started and when he learned the job, he was shot physically.

There are many guys with similar stories/learning curves.

Cook can run routes. I suspect once he gets more familiar with the offense and working with AR he'll produce. Jered was sidelined for a while this summer after his foot surgery so he is still catching up IMO.

[pbmax]

Finely couldn't run routes for shit his first few years. He eventually learned how to run routes and even threw in an effective block here and there at the end.

He was green as goose shit when he started and when he learned the job, he was shot physically.

There are many guys with similar stories/learning curves.

He also developed a fear of going for contested balls, especially over the middle.

His experience in his contract year with dropsies and the injury really messed with this kids head. He was never the same fearless player after he got hurt.

[texaspackerbacker]

I wonder how often Rodgers changes run plays at the LOS to a pass play?

I do think we should run Eddie into the ground. Most backs like him only get better if they get a lot of touches and wear out a defense.

Most RBs like him and not like him are running behind a decent O Line.

[Fritz]

Tex, I responded in another thread to your constant belittling of the offensive line.

This is the same offensive line (except they have more experience), basically, as in 2014 when Rodgers won his last MVP.

So how do you figure it's the offensive line that's the problem?

[texaspackerbacker]

Tex, I responded in another thread to your constant belittling of the offensive line.

This is the same offensive line (except they have more experience), basically, as in 2014 when Rodgers won his last MVP.

So how do you figure it's the offensive line that's the problem?

That's easy. McCarthy - stupidly IMO - has gravitated to a run-first mentality since that time. Incredibly, some would like to see him degenerate even further in that direction.

Even in 2014 and before, Rodgers did not have a lot of time to pass - Tom Brady time, Peyton Manning time, etc., but then, as now, he had/has that wonderful escapability and ability to throw on the run or reset and throw. Teams didn't dare blitz him because he'd make them regret it. Hell, they didn't need to blitz because 4 and 3 man rushes poured right through our O Line anyway - then and now. Then, however, the team had a more Pass-First mentality - a lot more passes on early downs, and when we did run, it often took the other team by surprise and was successful. Occasionally, you still see that, but not nearly enough. Even back then, when the O Line had an obvious run situation, the O Line wasn't much able to just push 'em back.

That's the way I remember it. I really don't know why McCarthy fell for the crap that you need to run to set up the pass, but it has made the offense worse. I still think this team is good enough to win it all - and will win it all - just not because of the lame-assed O Line, but in spite of it with Aaron Rodgers just playing his normal game.

[Radagast]

In this case, perception is reality. The reason they won't/CAN'T stick with run-first - why it disappears in most games - is that it simply doesn't work with this O Line. The damn shame of it is McCarthy sticks with that run-first mentality so damn long before finally getting the message. It ain't like the Badgers against most of the Big Ten. The key to Lacy or Starks "getting the hot hand" is running as a change of pace after a bunch of pass plays. The only "obligation" I see is the obsession to run to set up the pass when it SHOULD be the other way around.

When a team has 1 or more above average RBs, Running the football becomes a no-brainier . (1) It protects the football as yardage is gained. (2) It provides the Team/Offense a way to eat clock and
rest the Defense . (3) It keeps opposing Defenses honest about rushing the QB . and (4) A good running attack can reduce putting the entire success of the Offense on the QB's shoulders .

Too many fans believe in the instant success, the flashy Offense , the lightning attack. Tex , as usual , has gotten it wrong. All Offensive linemen have, sense they began playing the sport, been taught to run block first . It is part of the fundamentals of their positions . Pass blocking is something that is added as the seasons accumulate . MM is most correct to utilize his running attack and have it develop into a stronger force as the season progresses . Now especially as the passing game is still suffering from a bad case of "slow" .

[Fritz]

Tex, I just can't get on board with the "Rodgers does it in spite of his line" thinking.

It hasn't been the greatest offensive line, but it's been good enough. And your shift to blaming McCarthy's playcalling instead of the offensive line, which you had done, is repudiated pretty well, I think, by Radagast above.

[texaspackerbacker]

I hadn't noticed his post until now, but it is pretty wrongheaded. Unless you have Jim Brown or O.J., it's the O Line that makes for a good rushing attack, not having one or two above average RBs. I've always said, if the Packers had O Line dominance on the pro level equivalent to the past Badger teams on the college level, I'd be right there with you guys advocating a run-first attack. But sadly, they don't - not even close.

And I've been criticizing McCarthy for quite a while too - increasingly as he has moved more and more toward a stupid (IMO) run-first mentality.

[King Friday]

The OL has not been abysmal during the first 2 games. The reason Rodgers gets pressure is almost exclusively because he holds the ball too damn long.

There isn't an offensive line in the league that can consistently give the QB 8 seconds in the pocket to throw the ball. If you think that is the solution to the problem, you'll never find it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The OL has not been abysmal during the first 2 games. The reason Rodgers gets pressure is almost exclusively because he holds the ball too damn long.

There isn't an offensive line in the league that can consistently give the QB 8 seconds in the pocket to throw the ball. If you think that is the solution to the problem, you'll never find it.

King you keep making sense to me. You've obviously improved greatly, stick with those meds.

[Radagast]

The OL has not been abysmal during the first 2 games. The reason Rodgers gets pressure is almost exclusively because he holds the ball too damn long.

There isn't an offensive line in the league that can consistently give the QB 8 seconds in the pocket to throw the ball. If you think that is the solution to the problem, you'll never find it.

King Friday, I believe that your on the right track, but let me fill in a few blanks .

First, no Offensive Line in the NFL is expected to protect a QB for more than 3 to 3.5 sec. max , so if the QB is not passing the football to a target in that time window, there must be a reason .
Second, the WR's /TE's are expected to be targets for the QB to throw to. They must demonstrate to the QB that they will be a safe as well as a good target to gain yards/TD with. This means that the receivers must be quick enough to separate from their defender and get open .
Third, if the QB throws them the ball , it is their job to catch the ball .
Forth, provided they have caught the ball, they are supposed to gain as much ground as they can/score if possible.

The answer is a lack of speed or a bad case of slow. This was last seasons problem as well . I'm hoping that Nelson and Cook will be the difference this season. However, don't look for any marked improvements until after the bye week. In addition, each week this seasons O-Line should get better at both pass/run blocking .

[pbmax]

The speed argument if we didn't have clips of receivers open who are not even in the read progression of the offense.

[Radagast]

The speed argument if we didn't have clips of receivers open who are not even in the read progression of the offense.

pbmax, IMO, I see MM making a change with respect to Adams . Either Abby (my choice) or Montgomery will take his place for lack of effectiveness . Being slow with hands of stone are poor qualities in a WR . I'm putting my money on Nelson and Cook to step their play . Cobb remains the Packer's WR2 .

[Radagast]

The speed argument if we didn't have clips of receivers open who are not even in the read progression of the offense.

pbmax, IMO, I see MM making a change with respect to Adams . Either Abby (my choice) or Montgomery will take his place for lack of effectiveness . Being slow with hands of stone are poor qualities in a WR . I'm putting my money on Nelson and Cook to step their play . Cobb remains the Packer's WR2 .

[RashanGary]

#1 wr Cobb
#2 wr Nelson
#3 Dick rod
#4 cook (deep threat)
#5 anyone else

[King Friday]

King you keep making sense to me. You've obviously improved greatly, stick with those meds.

Lithium is a wonderful thing.

[texaspackerbacker]

A lot of support for the O Line in here hahahahaha. It's been said an O Line can't be expected to hold off the pass rush for 3-3.5 seconds. How about 1-1.5 seconds? If you actually watch the game, you see, that soon - almost immediately - Rodgers has people flushing him out of the pocket. Does he have a slow release? Of course not. Is he indecisive - beyond normal care to avoid interceptions? hell no. He is on the run, either hitting receivers on the run or resetting and throwing or taking off and running with great success. It is bonehead STUPID to whine about the time before he releases the ball under the circumstances! Would you guys rather have him chuck it quick for an interception? Would you rather he just stood there and took a bunch of sacks?

We've got the greatest QB in the NFL, maybe in the history of the NFL, and incredibly, he gets criticized because he is playing behind a mediocre at best O Line, because his coach forces a run-first situation which wastes downs and puts pressure on him to pass in obvious passing situations. I say again, it's bonehead STUPID to criticize him.

[MadScientist]

A lot of support for the O Line in here hahahahaha. It's been said an O Line can't be expected to hold off the pass rush for 3-3.5 seconds. How about 1-1.5 seconds? If you actually watch the game, you see, that soon - almost immediately - Rodgers has people flushing him out of the pocket. Does he have a slow release? Of course not. Is he indecisive - beyond normal care to avoid interceptions? hell no. He is on the run, either hitting receivers on the run or resetting and throwing or taking off and running with great success. It is bonehead STUPID to whine about the time before he releases the ball under the circumstances! Would you guys rather have him chuck it quick for an interception? Would you rather he just stood there and took a bunch of sacks?

We've got the greatest QB in the NFL, maybe in the history of the NFL, and incredibly, he gets criticized because he is playing behind a mediocre at best O Line, because his coach forces a run-first situation which wastes downs and puts pressure on him to pass in obvious passing situations. I say again, it's bonehead STUPID to criticize him.

I agree the O-line is far from stellar, and a run first strategy is not likely to give good results. However to pretend that everything is alright with Rodgers is just not a honest assessment. Just within last year alone Rodgers went from all-world the first six games to journeyman the rest. Something happened and he just isn't the same qb he was before.

[texaspackerbacker]

Maybe today's game will clear up some things. We're going against a depleted D Line and a team that hasn't been very good in general. Will the Packer O Line get beat anyway - not much push on running plays, allowing the pass rush to get through quick on passing plays? Will the line do a decent job and Rodgers flounder anyway? Will the line play like crap and Rodgers do a good job of escaping and being productive? Who knows!

Maybe the Vikings were just better on D than I and a lot of others give them credit for. Maybe a lot of teams have figured something out on how to greatly slow down the Packers. If we lose this game - not likely, or if we have it turned into a close stressful win like against Jacksonville, then the problems are real. The more likely scenario, though, is that a lot of people including me have just been taking the occasion of the loss following the stressful win to vent on a lot of crap that people have been upset about for quite a while but didn't feel like saying while the team was winning.

I'm leaning toward the R-E-L-A-X point of view at this point, thinking that things will return to Goodness and Normalcy today and moving forward ........ but who knows.

[Fritz]

Tex, we don't agree on the offensive line play and Rodgers' play, but we do agree that it's a good time to r-e-l-a-x and hope the Green and Gold can go out there and stomp the Lions.