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Kiwon
09-05-2006, 02:57 AM
Secondary filled with rookies
After starting duo, defensive backfield has little experience
By TOM SILVERSTEIN
tsilverstein@journalsentinel.com

Posted: Sept. 4, 2006

Green Bay - The Green Bay Packers' starting secondary has 21 years of playing experience.

The backups in the secondary have two. If that doesn't scare a head coach, what will?

After the acquisition on waivers Sunday of cornerback Jarrett Bush and safety Charlie Peprah, both rookies, the Packers increased their total of players in the secondary with no NFL experience to four. Thus, half the unit is rookies, which means even without an injury occurring, at least one rookie is going to have to contribute this season.

Normally, that wouldn't be that big of a deal, but of the four rookies - Bush, Peprah, safety Tyrone Culver and cornerback Will Blackmon - none were drafted higher than the fourth round. Bush, in fact, wasn't drafted at all, and Culver was a sixth-round pick.

If ever there was proof that the Packers are in a rebuilding phase - a term general manager Ted Thompson refuses to use - it's the 17 rookies and first-year players on their roster. And when four of those rookies are in the secondary, where mistakes are felt the most, the proof is indisputable.

"You can see it," Packers cornerback Al Harris said. "And that happens every so often, teams have to do it. I've seen it in Philadelphia, so it happens. It's got to."

Does it mean the season is a bust?

"No, not at all," Harris said. "It doesn't mean that. No one is looking at it like that."

Youth will be served in many areas of the football team, but in the secondary, which has been a sore spot for the team since cornerback Mike McKenzie was traded two years ago, it will be different. Bush and Peprah are coming from different teams and until Monday morning, hadn't even met defensive coordinator Bob Sanders, let alone practiced in his system.

And Blackmon, one of the Packers' fourth-round picks, joined the other two in practicing for the first time Monday. Blackmon missed all of training camp with a broken foot and began his comeback by taking part in individual drills.

With division rival Chicago coming to Lambeau on Sunday for the home opener, it would be silly to think any of the new guys can play a role in the game other than on special teams. Thompson thought Bush and Peprah were more physical and better athletes than Jason Horton, the third-year cornerback who was let go to make room for them, but he certainly left the secondary in a predicament.

"We're trying to get as many good football players as possible," Packers coach Mike McCarthy said. "You've got to trust your personnel board. There's a reason why the personnel department goes about it the way they do. I was impressed with the process (during cut-downs). It was almost like a mini-draft all over again."

The problem McCarthy and Sanders face in the secondary is that they will be vulnerable against teams that go to a four-receiver attack. In training camp, Ahmad Carroll and Horton came in during those situations with one playing in the slot along with Charles Woodson and the other playing left corner.

Now, if they need to have four cornerbacks on the field, they'll probably have to move Nick Collins from safety to slot corner and bring Culver in to play safety. Collins has cornerback speed, but he has played safety all camp long and would be better served staying there.

Another way to handle it would be to bring in Carroll as a third corner and use linebacker A.J. Hawk in coverage against a receiver, but that's somewhat risky.

"There's a plan and we're moving forward," Sanders said without divulging details. "We have no excuses. Our goal is to beat Chicago and we're moving forward with our plan."

It wouldn't be surprising to see in the first month of the season Chicago, New Orleans, Detroit and Philadelphia try to spread the field on the Packers with multiple receivers knowing that Green Bay is lacking experience in the secondary. If that happens, the Packers would have to find a way to adjust until the rookies are ready.

Based on what they've been told of the newcomers they understand why Thompson made the moves.

"We had an opportunity to get two good players, two good prospects," Green Bay defensive backs coach Kurt Schottenheimer said. "We've got a pretty good solution that we feel good about (until they're ready)."

In the meantime, the coaches are putting the rookies through a crash course to see if they can get them ready to play in the coming weeks. They also have safety Atari Bigby, who knows the defensive scheme after spending all of training camp here, on the practice squad and could elevate him when his broken hand heals.

But ultimately, those rookies are going to have to play.

"It's not the end of the world," safety Marquand Manuel said. "You have to understand that and see that. There's going to be growing pains, yeah. But as long as we're on the same page, we'll be all right."

Kiwon
09-05-2006, 03:01 AM
The title of this article on JSO is "No Experience Needed."

Man, I hate the sound of that!

PTPaQ
09-05-2006, 03:17 AM
Guard your man.

Thats all you have to do guys. :D

run pMc
09-05-2006, 08:22 AM
VERY nervous about that secondary. The last depth chart I saw had Culver backing up both S spots, with the newbies 3rd. GB is paper thin at S...wish Underwood hadn't blown out his knee.

Green Bud Packer
09-05-2006, 08:39 AM
its a good thing the pack isn't facing a high powered offense in the first couple of weeks.if they can shut down the run against the bears and saints the pack should have a chance in both games.

the_idle_threat
09-05-2006, 10:45 AM
I read this article, which come across as alarmist, and I wonder ... what is the alternative? Would we be better off with veteran players who can't win a starting spot as our 4th corner and 4th safety?

I think I prefer having some young guys with talent at the bottom of the roster rather than old guys like Earl Little, Mark Roman and the god-awful Michael Hawthorne---guys who are not going to get any better, and yet might be disgruntled they are not starting, even though they couldn't handle starting if they were given the job.

Rookies are going to make mistakes and will get beat, but so will 4th-string veterans who never play. In fact, that may be the reason they're 4th-string veterans.

Let's give TT some credit for not being satisfied with guys who are maxed out, and giving some young guys a shot. Who knows ... maybe one of these young guys turns out to be somebody. We know the veteran guys never will.

Dune
09-05-2006, 06:19 PM
What worries me is that I saw underwood last year get beaten over and over by the offensive recievers last year.

They say he had a great camp this year. I hope he has improved but you got to figure these new guys are no any better than underwood last year.

BTW I heard Colledge was having a great camp and was doing well right up until he lost the starting job. I think sometimes I get caught up in the good things you hear from the Coaches and the reality is much differant than advertised.

Offensive line is a big disappointment and we are 1 to 2 injuries from a complete disaster. Injuries do occur. We have 1 maybe 2 offensive lineman that are not starting quality and Clifton has injury problems.
The scheme has changed for the tackles and they are still adjusting.
BTW they may not fit the mold for the type of lineman you need in this blocking scheme and therefore will not play at the same level as before.

Our depth is awful Colledge ? White? Moll ? and he's starting Coston when healthy. 3 of this guys were listed as starters and were not good enough hopefully the free agent guard we signed will be able to start. Spitz sounds barely adequate. he would however give us some depth if we can find someone to start in his place. There is some potential for some of these guys but you hear they all must get stronger.I don't think they will help this year.

KYPack
09-05-2006, 07:37 PM
What worries me is that I saw underwood last year get beaten over and over by the offensive recievers last year.

They say he had a great camp this year. I hope he has improved but you got to figure these new guys are no any better than underwood last year.

BTW I heard Colledge was having a great camp and was doing well right up until he lost the starting job. I think sometimes I get caught up in the good things you hear from the Coaches and the reality is much differant than advertised.

Offensive line is a big disappointment and we are 1 to 2 injuries from a complete disaster. Injuries do occur. We have 1 maybe 2 offensive lineman that are not starting quality and Clifton has injury problems.
The scheme has changed for the tackles and they are still adjusting.
BTW they may not fit the mold for the type of lineman you need in this blocking scheme and therefore will not play at the same level as before.

Our depth is awful Colledge ? White? Moll ? and he's starting Coston when healthy. 3 of this guys were listed as starters and were not good enough hopefully the free agent guard we signed will be able to start. Spitz sounds barely adequate. he would however give us some depth if we can find someone to start in his place. There is some potential for some of these guys but you hear they all must get stronger.I don't think they will help this year.

That's one hellacious 7th post, Dune.

I worry about exacly the same stuff.

Youth & keeping the team green & growing is great & all, but some of these kids ain't NFL caliber.

The line & DB's need some experience in the mix. These young bloods are gonna get hammered in the real season. Hell, most of 'em didn't play worth shit in the Pre Season. What do ya think'll happen when the bullets start flyin'?

I'm worried to shit!

Chubbyhubby
09-05-2006, 08:07 PM
We might get #1 pick in the draft if things fall apart this year.

Granted this team is young and we might have go through 2-3 years of being at the bottom. With this team being so young as it is, we are going to have high draft picks for a few years. We could be starting a something special here in Green Bay in the next 3-4 years.

Don't be so glum people! They know what they are doing. We have to go through our growing pains now and besides we are starting over. Lets all face that once and for all.

Lurker64
09-05-2006, 09:55 PM
The youth in the secondary really doesn't bother me all that much because what we have in front of the youth (Woodson, Harris, Manuel, Collins, and Carroll) is all solid to slightly above average. If some of those guys get hurt, then yeah we're going to need some rookies to step up, but that's not an immediately damning situation to be in.

Completely unlike our offensive line where 3/5 of the starters are inexperienced at their positions at the pro-level and are running a fairly complex scheme so even the established veterans look clueless at times. In that case, I think we'd all better hope to god that nobody gets hurt and that some guys step it up big time.

But in all honesty, I'm more worried about the defensive line than I am about the defensive backfield. If we were a little more intimidating up front, we wouldn't need to be nearly so perfect in the backfield.

Joemailman
09-05-2006, 10:26 PM
So we might have to use a rookie when teams to go 4 WR sets. Would people have been so much more confident if it was Jason Horton instead?

woodbuck27
09-06-2006, 01:59 AM
One win . .then two wins . . then three. . . .

That's where I'm at.

The Packers, certainly appear to be in the mud right now.

OL

Packers4Glory
09-06-2006, 05:52 AM
these guys can't possibly blow more assignments than the vets we've had back there in previous seasons. We are going to hit on atleast one of these guys w/ maybe 1 or 2 being good solid contributors in yrs to come.

this is one reason I really like Manuel on this team. He is like another coach on and off the field. He'll be a huge help to those guys whenever they get on the field. So far all these guys appear to be smart and have some tools to work with...aside from carroll who is just a dumbass who already knows everything.

run pMc
09-06-2006, 08:35 AM
Good points...like many of you, I'm more worried about the OL than the secondary. All the same, those guys tweak their hamstrings a lot, and Woodson's got an injury history. 4 WR sets will stretch us thin.

And yes, having a better pass rush will absolutely help the secondary look All-Pro. Unfortunately, quality pass rushers are hard to find...especially the every-down kind.

Packers4Glory
09-06-2006, 11:10 AM
Good points...like many of you, I'm more worried about the OL than the secondary. All the same, those guys tweak their hamstrings a lot, and Woodson's got an injury history. 4 WR sets will stretch us thin.

And yes, having a better pass rush will absolutely help the secondary look All-Pro. Unfortunately, quality pass rushers are hard to find...especially the every-down kind. i really hope that hunter kid can come in and provide a rush opposite KGB. on obvious passing downs. Jennings is pretty good from the inside. Just nothing that scares you from the others side.