OFFICIAL AARON THE LIVING LEGEND THREAD

[pbmax]

With a little luck and backward compatibility with the in cranium mobile web browsers we will all have Apple install by 2020, this thread will live to 552 Pages like Brett's.

First words by Aaron to Brett upon meeting in Green Bay?

“Good morning, grandpa!”

http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/gunslinger-brett-favre-aaron-rodgers-feud-jeff-pearlman-excerpt/

[pbmax]

So much to love about the cast of characters in this excerpt.

First a caveat, Jeff Pearlman has done some pretty good reporting, but one error stuck out. A misread of the characters in this chapter: describing Ted Thompson as humorless. Publicly, OK, I see where you get that. But if you are telling us how the personalities clashed during this time period, you could get a better description. Thompson's humor might be well hidden and not often on display, it might even border on rudimentary, but its not that he doesn't have one. The coming conflict had little to do with humorlessness.

The characters:

Tom Rosselly taking credit for recommending Rodgers to Thompson after an unscheduled workout. Regardless of actual impact, nice story about how the QB coach at Cal got AR a good mention in GB.

Craig Nall and Najeh Dookie Davenport taking up the cause of old man Favre by knocking rookie Rodgers' attitude. That's two sources with impeccable professional judgement!

Ben Steele, with the team all of 1-2 years and 17 games. Could tell by Rodgers home run trot in the charity softball game that he wasn't humble enough.

Dylan Tomlinson of Gannet Media taking credit for warning Rodgers about Favre, who he openly claims to have loathed from his time covering the team 2003-200?.

Ron Jaworski proving back in 2005 that apparently Greg Cosell and Meril Hoge were the brains of NFL matchup.

A shot at Sherman by Pearlman himself (see first paragraph): Sherman probably did give Favre too long a chain, but it wasn't this one sided. He harnessed Favre to an offense that was run first all the way and the QB went along with it. I suspect Favre went off script a few times with play calls and throws they wished to have back, but Sherman wasn't toothless as presented in this chapter.

JT O'Sullivan is here, Chris Samp, Ruvell Martin, Pepper Burruss, Darrell Bevell, and Donald Driver.

[RashanGary]

Glad Aaron came out on top. Favre had enough of his own glory too. He had a good, long career. Now AR needs to pull his head out of his ass and start playing better. Favre gave up his stubbornness in 2007 and had a good end to his career. AR needs to give up his now.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Is anybody surprised by Rodgers come across as arrogant and Favre a douche bag? This is like Sam Smith's book on Michael Jordan.

The one thing that wasn't mentioned was just how crazy injured the Packers were in 2005. Unlike under Thompson (technically, it was his first year, but he hadn't rebuilt the team yet), Sherman's teams had little depth.

[pbmax]

Steele does go on to say that anyone who couldn't see that Rodgers was close to Favre's equal was just fooling themselves.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Obligatory post.

[red]

LONG LIVE ANTON RODGERS!!!!!

[Pugger]

Steele does go on to say that anyone who couldn't see that Rodgers was close to Favre's equal was just fooling themselves.

I'm certain once Favre saw Rodgers throw the ball he knew this kid was a legit threat to his job!

[denverYooper]

Sittin' Pretty.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Good read. Remind me to purchase or download this book for the plane ride next time I plan a trip to the Moonlite BunnyRanch.

Totally agree with the author in that Thompson is a humorless man.

Couple of facts I found while reading the excerpt:

1. For a cocky guy, it sure is odd that Rodgers doesn't brag much 'bout his cock. :)

2. A dude grew up idolizing Favre, gets a chance to catch balls from Favre in TC; Favre pays him little respect. (WTF, Goat?!?! Gotta play with grace in your heart and flowers in your hair!)

I often wonder what the Great Arm of Butte's story would be like had Sherman, then the King of the Pack, pushed hard to draft Benny the Big in 2004. Someone at MMQB reported that Sherman was madly in love with Roethlisberger. Sherman apparently thought Big Ben was out of his league. Didn't take a chance. Two 1st and a 3rd coulda/woulda been more than enough to move up into the top 10.

BTW, anyone interested, my NY Times Bestsellers are available at Amazon.com:

The Wolf of Lombardi Ave.: How Ron Wolf EGOISTICALLY Turned Around a Moribund Packer Franchise

The Polar Bear on Lombardi Ave.: Inside the Incompetence of Ted Thompson

A Bill Tolls for New England: Inside the Competency and Genius of Bill Belichick

The Choker in the Rye: Inside Aaron Rodgers' Futility In The Clutch

A Brief History of Tank: The Life and Times of Tank Elf Duke

[HarveyWallbangers]

McGinn has a scathing column on Rodgers today. For the most part I think he's spot on.

[Maxie the Taxi]

McGinn has a scathing column on Rodgers today. For the most part I think he's spot on.Yup. Nothing shocking. It's all been said here by Rats over and over. The only thing McGinn didn't echo of what's been said here is Arod's habit lately of throwing receivers under the bus by his body language after an incompletion.

[RashanGary]

McGinn has a scathing column on Rodgers today. For the most part I think he's spot on.

Yep. I'd be curious to see hundley. Just curious if someone doing the simple things right would be better.

[Pugger]

McGinn has a scathing column on Rodgers today. For the most part I think he's spot on.

Perhaps Rodgers is past his prime. This slump is becoming chronic and not having a running game to speak of against Dallas is gonna kill us. It is all rather sad and shocking how he can go from being one of the best to one of the worst in less than a calendar year. :sad:

[Joemailman]

As far as planting his back foot from shotgun or a straight dropback, striding into the throw and taking a hit, it almost never happens. Just as Brett Favre fell into poor throwing mechanics later on during the Mike Sherman years, Rodgers is following suit.

You see a lot of all-arm throws, skipping into throws, firing off balance and across his body. He sails one pass, bounces another. At times, his feet don’t work in unison with his torso. His deep-ball accuracy, once extraordinary, has improved somewhat from a year ago when it was embarrassingly bad for a player of his stature.

It's shocking to me how his mechanics have declined. It used to be what set him apart from the merely good quarterbacks. Is McCarthy not stressing mechanics as he once did, or is Rodgers uncoachable? McCarthy recently got upset in his PC about the perceived negativity others see in his offense. My guess is he knows Rodgers is the main problem, but doesn't want to publicly say it. Favre went through a period like this in 1999-2000, and was able to largely reverse the decline. Rodgers could do it too, but it starts with acknowledging the problem exists.

[Patler]

It's shocking to me how his mechanics have declined. It used to be what set him apart from the merely good quarterbacks. Is McCarthy not stressing mechanics as he once did, or is Rodgers uncoachable?

Do to the limitations on players' contact with coaches during the off-season, MM's QB school has been diluted to being nothing special. MM has complained numerous times that there is no longer time allowed in the off-season to work on QB mechanics. While this seems most applicable to young QBs, it also applies to vets who get in bad habits.

[Rutnstrut]

There are a few possible reasons to Rodgers decline imo. 1. he has become "too big for his britches". 2. Stubby has let him get that way. 3. He never was as good as perceived. Although I don't really buy that one. We all agree his mechanics have declined, so I didn't mention that as it's obvious. The real problem is how to fix said mechanics. Stubby obviously isn't going to man up and do it.

[pbmax]

It has everything to do with an offense that is constructed on "The Play Begins After 3 Seconds of Pass Blocking". That and bad pass blocking last year.

When they actually ran routes to get someone open, his mechanics look fine and in rhythm.

[Freak Out]

Rodgers is never going to make it 552 if he doesn't get his shit together.

[pbmax]

Rodgers is never going to make it 552 if he doesn't get his shit together.

Strictly for the purposes of 552, stinking for a while then having a possible resurgence might be the best plan.

[Infamous]

HILARIOUS!


LONG LIVE ANTON RODGERS!!!!!

[Infamous]

With a little luck and backward compatibility with the in cranium mobile web browsers we will all have Apple install by 2020, this thread will live to 552 Pages like Brett's.

First words by Aaron to Brett upon meeting in Green Bay?

“Good morning, grandpa!”

http://thelab.bleacherreport.com/gunslinger-brett-favre-aaron-rodgers-feud-jeff-pearlman-excerpt/

i am SO disappointed you started this thread PB..come on; youre better than that!! the Lord Favre thread is a classic, an institution..

[pbmax]

i am SO disappointed you started this thread PB..come on; youre better than that!! the Lord Favre thread is a classic, an institution..

I AGREE. HENCE THE IMITATION!

FLATTERY ONLY, I PROMISE!

[Infamous]

I AGREE. HENCE THE IMITATION!

FLATTERY ONLY, I PROMISE!

haha..and I was just being silly. I have not been around here lately so certainly curious about people's perspectives on AR at this point. Clearly I have made it clear that I respect your's and a few other poster's take on things. What is the most commonly held position on AR's skills, etc? Well known that I've had a man crush on Favre for a few decades. And I assumed all the Favre bashers say that AR has passed him by in packer's lore. I'm too lazy to read through all the posts so would just totally appreciate a synopsis from yourself or other vet posters like freakout harvey patler woodbuck and others.

as far as things other than their skills and performances, I hate to toot my own horn but off the break, immediately i realized AR had jerk tendencies. my friends present with so much angst when they have to admit i was right nowadays. at the end of the day, we dont REALLY know these people. It was just clear to me that Lord is some one id MUCH rather have a beer with. I know this has nothing to do with the game. just curious about other's perspectives

[King Friday]

As of now, it is looking like Favre may just wind up with more Super Bowl appearances and just as many Super Bowl wins as Rodgers.

[Joemailman]

http://www.si.com/nfl/2016/10/16/nfl-week-6-wrapup-scores-highlights-storylines


Aaron Rodgers is not playing very good football right now, with the latest evidence being his fumble deep in Cowboys’ territory when Green Bay needed a score. Even before that, Rodgers too often looked confused and unable to find open receivers to his liking despite having good pass protection. And people, especially those in Wisconsin, are going to be freaking out all week about it. I get it. But Rodgers is still an excellent football player, and he will be again in short order. This actually could be good for Rodgers and coach Mike McCarthy, as long as they don’t panic. This is a situation where Rodgers, not usually one to ask for help, needs to listen to his coach, and vice versa. They need to come together and fix this offense. Regardless of what McCarthy thinks, it’s not working for Rodgers or the team. The Packers need to find a way to get their offensive groove back, and they need to do that together.

[hoosier]

I think I've heard that one before. Until it gets fixed, I am coming around to the idea that things have grown stale with the Packers. Maybe it's not Rodgers but the relationship. Eleven years is a long time to be the head coach of a team.

[Patler]

Some where in here we have a thread about an article that reviewed long term coaches. They used a cutoff of 7 or 8 years, I think. Something like that. Generally, coaches who stayed beyond that were not as successful in the second part of their careers as they were in the first. As I recall, the difference was significant.

[pbmax]

Some where in here we have a thread about an article that reviewed long term coaches. They used a cutoff of 7 or 8 years, I think. Something like that. Generally, coaches who stayed beyond that were not as successful in the second part of their careers as they were in the first. As I recall, the difference was significant.

This is my concern right now. The best evidence I have against it is Bill Cowher.

[hoosier]

How do head coach searches work in the NFL? Does the team post a job ad somewhere? Or is it more of an internal process?

[Bretsky]

SOME STUNNING STATS PER ESPN RADIO I WAS LISTENING TOO ON AROD

QB Ranking - 20th in the NFL among starting QB's
Yards per game- 24th among staring QB's in the NFL
Yards per thrown- 27th amount starting QB's in the NFL

There was a bunch of other shit too. The point was .......we always used to say Aaron Rodgers isn't playing up to his standards. Right now that is out the window. He's a BELOW AVERAGE STARTER ...perhaps MARGINAL STARTING NFL QB

I fully expect him to bounce back.....but hopefully real soon !!

[King Friday]

This is my concern right now. The best evidence I have against it is Bill Cowher.

Not sure that is the greatest evidence either.

Yes, he won a Super Bowl near the end of his stint in Pittsburgh. You can't argue with that.

However, going deeper, he went to the playoffs each of his first 6 years as a head coach...with double digit wins all but one year, which was 9. Very strong early in his career.

His last 9 years as coach of the Steelers? Only 4 seasons where the team reached double digit wins and the playoffs. If he hadn't gotten Roethlisberger as a QB in those last few years to give the offense some kind of threat throwing the ball, I'm sure the ending would have mirrored many of the other coaches who stayed in one place too long.

[pbmax]

Not sure that is the greatest evidence either.

Yes, he won a Super Bowl near the end of his stint in Pittsburgh. You can't argue with that.

However, going deeper, he went to the playoffs each of his first 6 years as a head coach...with double digit wins all but one year, which was 9. Very strong early in his career.

His last 9 years as coach of the Steelers? Only 4 seasons where the team reached double digit wins and the playoffs. If he hadn't gotten Roethlisberger as a QB in those last few years to give the offense some kind of threat throwing the ball, I'm sure the ending would have mirrored many of the other coaches who stayed in one place too long.

His team was in need of a GM and there was a struggle in the front office between personnel and Cowher. They lost a lot of vets and the ones they kept were expensive. It was not perfect by any means. But he adapted with the times.

Another factor in a long term coach's favor is the roster turnover. Fewer long term vets around. Message might not be quite as stale.

[mission]

Packers offense will turn it around just enough for everyone to be back again next year so we can do it all over again.

[call_me_ishmael]

Packers offense will turn it around just enough for everyone to be back again next year so we can do it all over again.

That's what I think as well. My personal theory is Aaron must have gotten hurt pretty badly in that Denver game because he just hasn't been able to make the throws since. Mentally and physically he doesn't seem like the same player.

Sadly, I think if they continue to stink it up this year, coach MM is not back next year. Which is a damn shame because I think he is a tremendous coach. Aaron will obviously be the starter next year, but it is hard to say whether he'll be the starter the year after if he continues on the path he's on. Time will tell I guess - this could all be moot if he turns it around. It doesn't seem likely in my opinion he'll ever be an MVP candidate again though, does it?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Some where in here we have a thread about an article that reviewed long term coaches. They used a cutoff of 7 or 8 years, I think. Something like that. Generally, coaches who stayed beyond that were not as successful in the second part of their careers as they were in the first. As I recall, the difference was significant.

The NFL is designed to disassemble dynasties. That could bias those stats. Bellicek & Brady had their dip. Now they're back.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Rodger's problems are in his head. He'll get his groove back someday with some team.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Next year would be the perfect time to replace Stubby with a man who has a true prospective on Coach/QB communication and on the aerial circus which is the post-modern NFL:

http://d3d2maoophos6y.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2016/01/30094320/450b119120927001_Brett_Favre.jpg

[Rutnstrut]

Packers offense will turn it around just enough for everyone to be back again next year so we can do it all over again.

That is what scares me. The real fix for this problem is getting rid of stubby.

[gbgary]

what's ailing Rodgers is the major topic on all the tv sports talk shows so far this week.

[Rutnstrut]

what's ailing Rodgers is the major topic on all the tv sports talk shows so far this week.

Did you see Jennings on "the Herd" yesterday? He and others that know Rodgers had some interesting things to say. One common consensus was that he's sensitive, nice way of saying he's a pussy. Another was that he commonly talks down to people including coaches and his relationship with stubby is tenuous at best. There was also many good things said about him as well. Another common thought was that there is definitely something wrong with him since Denver last year.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

what's ailing Rodgers is the major topic on all the tv sports talk shows so far this week.

Sucks that Skip Bayless is no longer at ESPN.

His and Stephen A's arguments were probably plain acts, but they were, at times, pretty funny - intellectually.

Haven't checked yet, but would love to know what Skip has to say 'bout ole 12 this week.

[Rutnstrut]

Sucks that Skip Bayless is no longer at ESPN.

His and Stephen A's arguments might had been plain acts, but they were, at times, pretty funny - intellectually.

Haven't checked yet, but would love to know what Skip has to say 'bout ole 12 this week.

He gets into it pretty good with Shannon Sharp on their new show.

[Smidgeon]

Next year would be the perfect time to replace Stubby with a man who has a true prospective on Coach/QB communication and on the aerial circus which is the post-modern NFL:

http://d3d2maoophos6y.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/sites/6/2016/01/30094320/450b119120927001_Brett_Favre.jpg

After listening to him in the booth during the last game, it's no surprise to me his attempt at broadcasting fizzled so dramatically. The man knows the football game inside and out and can probably talk to amazing depths on the nuances, but he stumbled so much trying to keep it summarized for the plebeians. He'd probably do better as a coach than a commentator, but no idea how well he'd do there.

[gbgary]

i think he was trying to be politically correct too.

[RashanGary]

He can talk ina presser about himself all damn day, but to talk football as it's happening, yeah, not good.

[gbgary]

the DUDES!

http://www.fototime.com/24F755308458C0F/orig.jpg

[pbmax]

I will just leave this hear for future reference.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cvae3jMXgAAdWD6.jpg:large

[Zool]

Kaep can thank the Packers for his rank.

[Fritz]

I know PB responded to my Rodgers rant with an analysis that suggested the wide receivers and coaching staff bore the brunt of the responsibility. He knows more about football, so he's probably correct. I do, however, stand by my assertion that Rodgers is not the same guy he was a few short years ago. I am concerned he's turning into Steve Sax.

But maybe Mikey Mike will start scheming differently and trying to free up some guys.

[pbmax]

I know PB responded to my Rodgers rant with an analysis that suggested the wide receivers and coaching staff bore the brunt of the responsibility. He knows more about football, so he's probably correct. I do, however, stand by my assertion that Rodgers is not the same guy he was a few short years ago. I am concerned he's turning into Steve Sax.

But maybe Mikey Mike will start scheming differently and trying to free up some guys.

He is definitely the same guy. And those arguing that he was inaccurate and mechanics were playing a part were right too. But he still not Brian Hoyer. There are other factors.

[gbgary]

dvoa?

[pbmax]

dvoa?

Defense adjusted Value Over Average. The percentage is how much better the player is compared to the average ranking plays by a play's success.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods#dvoa

[Fritz]

I think Matt Stafford looked better today than Rodgers has all year. I'm not sure if his receivers were any more open than Rodgers's receivers. Maybe they were.

[gbgary]

Defense adjusted Value Over Average. The percentage is how much better the player is compared to the average ranking plays by a play's success.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/info/methods#dvoa

thx

[Maxie the Taxi]

Another opinion on Rodgers: Dougherty: Rodgers' tape doesn't lie (http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2016/10/26/dougherty-rodgers-tape-doesnt-lie/92774590/)

Basically, Dougherty compared tape from the Dallas game this year to tape from a Minnesota game in 2011.

Bottom line?


Maybe the biggest thing that jumped out is that Greg Jennings clearly was Rodgers’ favorite target and a player he generally had no qualms throwing to even when the receiver was in traffic or fairly well covered. I didn’t look at the stats going in, but it was no surprise to find out afterward that Jennings caught seven passes for 147 yards.

That plays into a second point. It wasn’t like the difference was night and day, but Rodgers played with a quick throwing rhythm more than he has for most of the last year.



I also have to say that while Rodgers’ accuracy was better in ’11, I didn’t see an obvious difference in his throwing mechanics. That’s another critique that has cropped up this season.


But that was 2011, not 2016. Circumstances have changed. Jordy Nelson coming off anterior cruciate ligament surgery isn’t the player he was, so there’s no receiver as good as Jennings was. For that matter, there’s no one who poses the threat Finley did, either.

How to fix what's ailing Arod?


So coach Mike McCarthy has to find a way to get Rodgers to play without them like he did with them. Going forward, you wonder if the injuries at running back that have McCarthy deploying a new spread offense might help there.

With four- and five-receiver sets, the ball often has to come out fast even if no one is really open. Perhaps necessity will turn back Rodgers’ clock.

Not much new. It's all been said here before.

[pbmax]

Interesting he didn't see mechanics as the issue. He has publicly acknowledged following Favre's lead of learning to throw without a planted back foot in a collapsing pocket to avoid the hit on a planted leg.

If you have ever watched Joel Stave (wonderful human being, not an accurate thrower on move), you also know Rodgers practicing throwing while moving and having to set and reset quickly.

I think the Jennings point comes down to trust and ability to get open. But M3 still should avoid basing his offense on that kind of throw, the most difficult to make.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I think guys tend to underestimate Jennings because of the way he left. The guy was probably the best WR we've had in a decade. He had speed, hands, smarts and RAC ability. We couldn't have won the Super Bowl without him. We need to acquire another stud like him while Aaron is still here.

[George Cumby]

Jennings and Rodgers made some beautiful music together.

Kind of like Coldplay.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I think guys tend to underestimate Jennings because of the way he left. The guy was probably the best WR we've had in a decade. He had speed, hands, smarts and RAC ability. We couldn't have won the Super Bowl without him. We need to acquire another stud like him while Aaron is still here.

+1

Jennings was also a great route-runner. Arguable the greatest route runner in Packer history. The coaches need to show Janis some Jennings highlights.

http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view1/1272259/greg-jennings-destroys-a-allen-o.gif

[pbmax]

Craig Nall @QB1Sports
@erush710 @jeffpearlman @EvCoRadio Evan is correct. Wasn't first time they met. Was day 2 of training camp, ARs first day of training camp