NFL OFFICIATING: Another SeaChickens Crybaby, Or Does Sherman Have A Point?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Seahawk Richard Sherman rips Roger Goodell, officiating, says NFL ‘isn’t fun anymore’ — and more (http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/seahawk-richard-sherman-rips-roger-goodell-officiating-says-nfl-isnt-fun-anymore-and-more/)


— On how to improve officiating: “Make the rule book a lot less extensive. You’ve got a bunch of freaking rocket scientists writing rules for a simple game. Like I’ve always said they e always say they ask players and coaches about rules and rules changes but they really don’t take what they say into account, obviously, because the game is entirely too difficult to officiate to be written by coaches and players, to be influenced by coaches and players. This game would be a lot more simplified by the refs. Obvious calls would have to be made, if it affects the play it would have to be made. Earl Thomas got called for illegal contact on a play where he pretty much ran the route for the receiver and then you don’t get called when the receiver just blocks a dude in the end zone to the ground on a pass play. You’ve got to simplify it and give them less things to watch because it’s hard for the to ever protect the defensive player.’’


— On how he would rewrite the pass interference rule: “I’d even it out. I’d take illegal contact out or I’d call it both ways. If we can’t touch them past five yards, then they can’t initiate contact with us past five yards. But then it kind of sounds ridiculous, doesn’t it? Just as illegal contact is a ridiculous rule and impossible to officiate they can literally run into you at any point on the field and get that call. All you have to do is initiate contact, 4th and 55 and you got a first down. It makes it difficult to play defense because now they know the rules, they can manipulate the rules and the refs see what they think they see.”

IMO there are way too many penalties called in this league. It seems on every play almost. Every punt. It's making some games unwatchable.

What exactly is "incidental contact?" What exactly is holding? Pass interference?

Should penalties -- especially pass interference, offensive and defensive, and now unnecessary roughness -- determine the course of of just about every game?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Here's a good article on what officials do that Peter King did back in 2013.

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/04/

[Maxie the Taxi]

Here's a good article on what officials do that Peter King did back in 2013.

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/04/Can't get the link to work.

[pbmax]

http://mmqb.si.com/2013/12/04/peter-king-spends-week-with-nfl-refs

[Maxie the Taxi]

Thanks. Appreciate the King article from the ref's point of view. But I'm approaching it purely from a fan's point of view. Flag throwing, reviews and such is just getting too disruptive, too important, too much a part of the game. What ever happened to the old saw that if you don't notice the umpire he's doing a great job?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Thanks. Appreciate the King article from the ref's point of view. But I'm approaching it purely from a fan's point of view. Flag throwing, reviews and such is just getting too disruptive, too important, too much a part of the game. What ever happened to the old saw that if you don't notice the umpire he's doing a great job?

With the 15 camera angles, zooming in and slow motion the fan's perspective is way better than it's ever been. Thus there's far more fan outcry than there's ever been either because the refs are nit-picked to a much greater magnitude than the ones of yesterday and their flaws are made public to millions instantly. That old axiom doesn't apply anymore as the game has changed drastically since then.

Sherman, IMO thinks the rules favor the offense too much and he could be right about that. However, they favored the defense for quite a bit before and this is just a swing in the pendulum the other way.

[gbgary]

i don't have a problem with it. if a player commits a penalty...call it! sherman crying about pass int and illegal contact is hilarious. the sea backfield has been the most notorious outfit in the league over the past several years for the over the top coverage. their philosophy is hold, grab, whatever it takes to keep teams from completing passes and to give their front 7 time to get to the qb. if they get the occasional penalty so be it. they know the refs won't call it on every play so it's to their advantage. that crap never used to be happen. i think the refs should go ahead and call it every play and see how they react.

GIVE ME MORE PENALTIES!

[Rastak]

NFL isn't fun anymore....

Just hand the fucking ball to the ref and leave the dancing to the chorus girls.


I do agree on the insane amount of penalties. In my opinion they shouldn't call backside holds that have no effect or incidental contact. Holding a guys arm down, that I'd call.

[Maxie the Taxi]

When I was in Junior HS, my brother Boyd and I would play one-on-one basketball in the driveway. We'd call "foul" on each other. Some times it would get out of hand, each of us calling foul on every possession. The game would deteriorate. Then we'd decide to play "Tackle Basketball." Virtually anything goes; nothing stops the game. After an initial period of chaos, Tackle Basketball eventually turned into our best games. In short, we stopped bitching and gave as good as we got.

I remember when blockers used to have to keep their hands on their chests and block with their forearms and shoulders. Now virtually anything goes and the refs try to interpret and control the chaos. And we're paying the price by being knee deep in flags on every play. And then we have to suffer through those game-stopping reviews in super slow motion.

I can still watch the Packer games, but it's painful to keep interested in watching other teams play. For some reason, college football is way more interesting nowadays.

[Freak Out]

Get rid of instant replay.

[ThunderDan]

No blood no foul was how we played basketball in our driveway. Being the youngest on the block, this rule sucked.

[gbgary]

bill polian just said on nfl insiders what i just said...the players are being coached to commit the penalties rather than get beat or get the qb hurt. if the refs catch you so be it...if they don't great.

so it's on the players...not the refs.

[Maxie the Taxi]

bill polian just said on nfl insiders what i just said...the players are being coached to commit the penalties rather than get beat or get the qb hurt. if the refs catch you so be it...if they don't great.

so it's on the players...not the refs.IMO it's on the game. It's a classic case of trying to have your cake and eat it too. The NFL is trying to make a violent game politically correct. The result? The game is being regulated to death and is losing fans like me.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The result? The game is being regulated to death and is losing fans like me.

umm, I don't think fans like you are going anywhere, dear.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXE2xNa3j9U


I agree that there are too many flags for the good of the game. But the problem is that players are doing too much grabbing.

Your boybood days with Boyd got me to thinking. How about making holding and interfence called by the offended player? The old honor system might just work better. Review every call in the booth - but only to eject rats making phantom accusations.

This might actually work.

[gbgary]

IMO it's on the game. It's a classic case of trying to have your cake and eat it too. The NFL is trying to make a violent game politically correct. The result? The game is being regulated to death and is losing fans like me.

i can see that with qb protection and hitting defenseless players rules but pass int, illegal contact, holding, blocking in the back (on kick-offs)...no way. they're being coached to take a chance on it not being called. bill polian admitted it.

[Maxie the Taxi]

umm, I don't think fans like you are going anywhere, dear.


I agree that there are too many flags for the good of the game. But the problem is that players are doing too much grabbing.

Your boybood days with Boyd got me to thinking. How about making holding and interfence called by the offended player? The old honor system might just work better. Review every call in the booth - but only to eject rats making phantom accusations.

This might actually work.Still too much official oversight. I say let the players take an eye for an eye. That might work too. After everyone is blinded, the game might become more genteel.

[George Cumby]

Add poor/excessive/muddled officiating to the laundry list of why the NFL's bubble has burst.

[pbmax]

Get rid of instant replay.

Its all or nothing. When its introduced, you keep hearing people (MLB, NFL especially) say it will only be used for homers or coaches challenges. But the pressure begins to immediately build to use it for all questionable calls.

The only actual choices are centralize it and put in under one person at the game or remove it. The in between stuff is just slow and causing an argument.

[Pugger]

I don't mind instant replay when it doesn't take forever. Don't we want it called right? If we had instant replay back in 1999 SF wouldn't have won (Jerry Rice did fumble) and we would have gone on to the divisional round that season.

[texaspackerbacker]

i don't have a problem with it. if a player commits a penalty...call it! sherman crying about pass int and illegal contact is hilarious. the sea backfield has been the most notorious outfit in the league over the past several years for the over the top coverage. their philosophy is hold, grab, whatever it takes to keep teams from completing passes and to give their front 7 time to get to the qb. if they get the occasional penalty so be it. they know the refs won't call it on every play so it's to their advantage. that crap never used to be happen. i think the refs should go ahead and call it every play and see how they react.

GIVE ME MORE PENALTIES!

My first reaction was to kinda agree with Sherman, but this post rings true too.

My big gripe is with all the stupid shit about safety. If they can do things with equipment, fine, but so much disruptive regulatory crap messes up the game IMO. Bottom line is that for the extreme millions these guys are paid, they can assume the risk - or not if they want to go all Chris Borland. Do away with the concussion protocol and similar shit.

The pass interference thing is just fine tuning. The players can and should adjust to the rules. The worse thing there is the inconsistency of how different officials interpret those rules. One of Sherman's gripes, the automatic first down, seems valid though. Make PI a spot foul with a minimum of 15 yards of penalty, and if it's still not a first down - like in his 4th and 55 example, so be it.

[Guiness]

I don't mind instant replay when it doesn't take forever. Don't we want it called right? If we had instant replay back in 1999 SF wouldn't have won (Jerry Rice did fumble) and we would have gone on to the divisional round that season.

maybe, maybe not. Did he have control? Under review, maybe it wasn't even a catch ( :roll: ) and it's just a loss of down?

[Maxie the Taxi]

I don't mind instant replay when it doesn't take forever. Don't we want it called right? If we had instant replay back in 1999 SF wouldn't have won (Jerry Rice did fumble) and we would have gone on to the divisional round that season. In a lot of cases there is no objective standard of what "right" means. For example, when is a catch really a catch? When does a receiver truly have possession? Take the famous Dez Bryant non-catch for instance. Even in super slow motion it's virtually impossible to tell. Instant replay didn't end that controversy but magnified it.

Instant replay is barely tolerable now. I surely wouldn't expand it.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Get rid of instant replay.

With all due respect, I wholeheartedly disagree to the fuck. Watching sports with instant replays is a lot cooler than without, in person or on TV.

As a young stud, I once attended a UW-TheOSU game at Camp Randell. That was the early 2000's, or maybe 1999. Whatever the year, the tech existed, yet UW was too cheap to make instant replays available on the jumbo screen.

After the soon-to-be-Viking-great Mike Bennett dashed loose for a long TD, I looked up at the jumbo screen hoping to see a replay of that home run. All I saw was an annoying animation, you know, like that low-tech animation in Tecmo Bowl after you score a TD.

Came away wishing I had stayed home. Watching the game on ESPN woulda been more enjoyable, as the network pretty much shows instant replays after every play.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

i don't have a problem with it. if a player commits a penalty...call it! sherman crying about pass int and illegal contact is hilarious. the sea backfield has been the most notorious outfit in the league over the past several years for the over the top coverage. their philosophy is hold, grab, whatever it takes to keep teams from completing passes and to give their front 7 time to get to the qb. if they get the occasional penalty so be it. they know the refs won't call it on every play so it's to their advantage. that crap never used to be happen. i think the refs should go ahead and call it every play and see how they react.


Doubt General Sherman cried about the officiating on this play (Reminder: Shields was blatantly interfered by Tate prior to all hell breaking loose).

http://nflcompackers.files.wordpress.com/2014/04/140423-sea-fail-mary-300.jpg?w=300&h=379

[MadScientist]

Sherman half full of shit. Illegal contact can make it impossible for that receiver to get open so the ball goes elsewhere. In Sherman's mind that does not deserve a call, but really it does. Do we really want to go back to rules of the 50's?

On the other hand, he has a case for calling offensive illegal contact for receiver initiating contact. Many times it is a form of OPI.

[pbmax]

My first reaction was to kinda agree with Sherman, but this post rings true too.

My big gripe is with all the stupid shit about safety. If they can do things with equipment, fine, but so much disruptive regulatory crap messes up the game IMO. Bottom line is that for the extreme millions these guys are paid, they can assume the risk - or not if they want to go all Chris Borland. Do away with the concussion protocol and similar shit.

The pass interference thing is just fine tuning. The players can and should adjust to the rules. The worse thing there is the inconsistency of how different officials interpret those rules. One of Sherman's gripes, the automatic first down, seems valid though. Make PI a spot foul with a minimum of 15 yards of penalty, and if it's still not a first down - like in his 4th and 55 example, so be it.

Getting rid of the concussion protocol would be the death knell of football. Its one of the few things they have partially got right.

Get rid of all the other targeting rules and simply ban hitting or leading with the head. You dive like a missile with no arms, 15 yards and a first down. Stick your noggin in to force a fumble, 15 yards and a first down. Only player allowed to do it is the running back in the tackle box.

Football did not used to be played with head hunting, the gear wasn't good enough. Time to go back to it.

Steve Atwater and the Cleveland safety were pilloried for being terrible form tacklers by going for the kill shot. Bring back the form tackle.

[Iron Mike]

Sherman half full of shit. Illegal contact can make it impossible for that receiver to get open so the ball goes elsewhere. In Sherman's mind that does not deserve a call, but really it does. Do we really want to go back to rules of the 50's?

On the other hand, he has a case for calling offensive illegal contact for receiver initiating contact. Many times it is a form of OPI.

Can you imagine Michael Irvin's stats if he had been flagged for OPI every time he pushed off????

[esoxx]

dp

[esoxx]

Sherman is exactly right.

Way too over regulated, way too complicated rule book.

No surprise at all ratings down

I'll be giving up my Packer season tickets within 5 years. Because too many rules and getting worse every year.

#thanksforkillingagreatgameyouoverregulatingfuckfa ces

[texaspackerbacker]

Getting rid of the concussion protocol would be the death knell of football. Its one of the few things they have partially got right.

Get rid of all the other targeting rules and simply ban hitting or leading with the head. You dive like a missile with no arms, 15 yards and a first down. Stick your noggin in to force a fumble, 15 yards and a first down. Only player allowed to do it is the running back in the tackle box.

Football did not used to be played with head hunting, the gear wasn't good enough. Time to go back to it.

Steve Atwater and the Cleveland safety were pilloried for being terrible form tacklers by going for the kill shot. Bring back the form tackle.

Coaching them up that way is fine - head hunting is as dangerous or more so for the tackler. However, there shouldn't be a rule. The only penalty for unnecessary roughness should be late hits or out of bounds. They should design oversize soft helmets that protect and can't be used as weapons. They might look like space helmets, but who cares about that.

As for the "death knell" of football, only all out idiots of a particular variety better discussed in FYI would be that sensitive or caring about lame shit like that. Real people - dare I say Good Normal people - want to get back to Nitschke and Butkis type stuff, and if somebody is scared of getting injured, let 'em pass on the extreme millions they are making. That includes QBs.

esoxx's post immediately before this one proves my point - assuming it isn't sarcasm.

[esoxx]

Ah, no. Not sarcasm.

[gbgary]

Sherman is exactly right.

Way too over regulated, way too complicated rule book.

No surprise at all ratings down

I'll be giving up my Packer season tickets within 5 years. Because too many rules and getting worse every year.

#thanksforkillingagreatgameyouoverregulatingfuckfa ces

as soon as the election is over the rating will be fine. they're only really down for primetime games. Sundays are about the same as last year...which was a record year. the only place they could really go was down.

[Fritz]

"Football did not used to be played with head hunting, the gear wasn't good enough. Time to go back to it."

To me, this is the key. In trying to protect players by making the equipment safer and more protective, it has allowed players to play more dangerously. Go back to leather helmets and smaller pads and we'll see how many guys are leading with their heads.

[Maxie the Taxi]

"Football did not used to be played with head hunting, the gear wasn't good enough. Time to go back to it."

To me, this is the key. In trying to protect players by making the equipment safer and more protective, it has allowed players to play more dangerously. Go back to leather helmets and smaller pads and we'll see how many guys are leading with their heads.Now you're talking.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7nqLwXpxJ18/UaZkEWjDAvI/AAAAAAAAP4A/buey4zqYhsM/s1600/1940_NewYorkSundayNews_Isbe.jpg

[Maxie the Taxi]

"Football did not used to be played with head hunting, the gear wasn't good enough. Time to go back to it."

To me, this is the key. In trying to protect players by making the equipment safer and more protective, it has allowed players to play more dangerously. Go back to leather helmets and smaller pads and we'll see how many guys are leading with their heads.The law of unintended consequences. The same law applies to rules like pass interference. The players eventually learn how to get around the rules. The guys who actually follow the rules are the ones hurt by them, cause guys like Sherman and company are abusing them play after play.