8-10 overall; 4-5 at home, 4-5 on the road

[Patler]

In their last 18 games, since the bye week last year, GB's overall record is 8-10 and their record at home is 4-5. Except for brief spurts, the offense has been consistently mediocre, and too often flat out bad. Over two seasons and changing rosters, the team has showed little spark when needed. Both sides of the ball have lacked the fight necessary to win close games.

The players comments have not changed over more than a seasons worth of sub-500 play. ("we have the talent, we just need to play better.") Confidence is essential to success, but over-confidence leads to losses. Except for brief spurts, the offense hasn't really changed either. Yesterday looked much like many of the losses last year. Consistency is important for successful coaching, but a failure to recognize when something no longer works leads to losses.

It is often said that success in the NFl is achieved by playing .500 on the road and dominating at home. A team that is no better at home than it is on the road is likely a declining team that will be a bottom dweller soon unless things turn around quickly

If nothing changes the second half of 2016, and there is little reason to expect that it will, fundamental changes will be needed. That can be changes to the core of the team, or a change in the coaching staff. MM has had a long run, but for whatever reason, head coaches seem to have a shelf life that seldom lasts beyond 10-12 years with the same team.

[pbmax]

Its more than enough reason to make a change. But does Ted want that?

Perhaps more importantly, does Mark Murphy want that?

[Rutnstrut]

The time for this regime to act is past. They got way too content with the status quo, and now they are their way to sucktown.

[gbgary]

if nothing changes, after getting everyone healthy, then changes definitely need to be made.
at least we'll get a better draft pick.

[Pugger]

In their last 18 games, since the bye week last year, GB's overall record is 8-10 and their record at home is 4-5. Except for brief spurts, the offense has been consistently mediocre, and too often flat out bad. Over two seasons and changing rosters, the team has showed little spark when needed. Both sides of the ball have lacked the fight necessary to win close games.

The players comments have not changed over more than a seasons worth of sub-500 play. ("we have the talent, we just need to play better.") Confidence is essential to success, but over-confidence leads to losses. Except for brief spurts, the offense hasn't really changed either. Yesterday looked much like many of the losses last year. Consistency is important for successful coaching, but a failure to recognize when something no longer works leads to losses.

It is often said that success in the NFl is achieved by playing .500 on the road and dominating at home. A team that is no better at home than it is on the road is likely a declining team that will be a bottom dweller soon unless things turn around quickly

If nothing changes the second half of 2016, and there is little reason to expect that it will, fundamental changes will be needed. That can be changes to the core of the team, or a change in the coaching staff. MM has had a long run, but for whatever reason, head coaches seem to have a shelf life that seldom lasts beyond 10-12 years with the same team.

If things continue to go to hell will Murphy tell Ted to retire and have Eliot Wolf clean house and get a new staff in here? You are right, HCs do have a shelf life so perhaps it is time for a different approach while we still have a few more years with AR.

[Freak Out]

if nothing changes, after getting everyone healthy, then changes definitely need to be made.
at least we'll get a better draft pick.

Which will be promptly wasted. lol

[Cheesehead Craig]

Fresh perspectives are needed from outside the organization on how to run the offense. If MM doesn't go, there needs to be a new OC in the group.

[texaspackerbacker]

The negativists just get worse and worse! 7 games left, and who among them should beat the Packers? A maybe on Seattle, and that's it.

I tend to have a bad memory for bad things, but yesterday's game stunk more than just about any I remember- total crap at home against a fairly weak team. Just the same, there's no reason to think the badness will continue.

That being said, I'm getting increasingly disgusted with McCarthy, and I've been at very least irked by Thompson even in better times. All you have to do is look at what so so many other teams put on the field/pick up fairly cheaply/have the balls to shell out money for, and it's damn obvious; Ted has been delinquent. He's been coasting along with Aaron Rodgers and a mediocre supporting cast for basically forever. Now, the rest of the team has at least temporarily due to injuries, slid to an even lower level of mediocrity, and Rodgers has even slipped a little bit (not nearly as much as the detractors claim).

Aaron Rodgers + mediocrity = damn good/playoff quality. Aaron Rodgers + even fairly good talent = virtually unbeatable. I've been aching to see that for years. Damn, Ted, MAXIMIZE things or get the hell out of town!

[Maxie the Taxi]

So it seems GB is not becoming a mediocre team, we already are one. Not surprising. We're probably a victim of our own success. 10 years or so of drafting the 25th best players in college instead of the ones and twos like Dallas, Oakland and others has finally caught up with us.

Injuries are a real factor, but would the guys out injured have raised us out of mediocrity? I can't say for sure.

What I can't reconcile is the preseason estimate that GB was the Super Bowl favorite? Was it hype? Was it just over-rating based on reputation? I actually thought this team could make some noise this year. Now I'm thinking I took a lot for granted and overestimated this team's talent.

[yetisnowman]

The negativists just get worse and worse! 7 games left, and who among them should beat the Packers? A maybe on Seattle, and that's it.

I tend to have a bad memory for bad things, but yesterday's game stunk more than just about any I remember- total crap at home against a fairly weak team. Just the same, there's no reason to think the badness will continue.

That being said, I'm getting increasingly disgusted with McCarthy, and I've been at very least irked by Thompson even in better times. All you have to do is look at what so so many other teams put on the field/pick up fairly cheaply/have the balls to shell out money for, and it's damn obvious; Ted has been delinquent. He's been coasting along with Aaron Rodgers and a mediocre supporting cast for basically forever. Now, the rest of the team has at least temporarily due to injuries, slid to an even lower level of mediocrity, and Rodgers has even slipped a little bit (not nearly as much as the detractors claim).

Aaron Rodgers + mediocrity = damn good/playoff quality. Aaron Rodgers + even fairly good talent = virtually unbeatable. I've been aching to see that for years. Damn, Ted, MAXIMIZE things or get the hell out of town!

I guess you haven't been paying attenton. Aaron and the offense has been playing like this for over a full season. Every single game remaining on the schedule is a potential loss. Sure they could go 6-2, but they way things are going I would be pretty surprised.

[denverYooper]

Context matters, at least a little bit. Let's look at the losses.

2015:
@Denver (12-4, SB Champ)
@Carolina (15-1 SB runner-up)
Detroit (7-9)
Chicago (6-10)
@Arizona (13-3, NFC runner-up)
Minnesota (11-5, NFCN champ)

2016:
@Minnesota (5-3, considered the best D at the time)
Dallas (7-1, best current record in NFC)
@Atlanta (6-3, #1 offense in the league)
Indianapolis (4-5)

7 of those 10 losses have come against top teams. The only loss that was against a truly bad team was vs. Chicago last year. Detroit was trending up when they beat the Packers and the Colts, despite struggling at the beginning of the year, have typically been a playoff team with Luck under center.

They clearly need to win some of those games to re-gain their position near the upper echelon of the league but we have to acknowledge that their record in that span has come against quality opposition.

[mmmdk]

Ergo, Packers is not a top team.

[Carolina_Packer]

It's unknowable and a mostly indefensible argument, because you are expected to win no matter the circumstances, but it would be interesting to see what level this team could perform at being full strength.

Key guys who have been out or affected by injury includes Clay, Sam Shields, Jared Cook, Lacy, Starks (I'll count him since we only had two RB's, which is not the players' fault), Cobb (nagging injuries), Jordy (coming back from knee injury, still getting up to speed hopefully), as well as Randall and Rollins. I'd like to think these last two games would have gone differently had we been at full strength. I'd like to think that if Cook had just played his 9th game, he would have assimilated himself into the offense, and provided a threat that we currently do not have consistently in the middle of the field.

That would make us 6-2 and what would the conversation be then? Would Cook be the boat that raises all the other boats, ala Jordy in 2014? Who knows. Would the dialog about the offense be the same? Who knows.

Not having Clay to help with the pass rush and enough DB's (Shields, Randall and Rollins) to cover consistently has weakened the defense. No doubt about it. Would they have been better off keeping Hayward? Probably. They may have better withstood the injury bug by doing so. The kids we have are doing the best they can but losing top three CB's for any length of time is a nightmare scenario.

There are reasons and there are excuses. None of the latter can be made, but some of the former can.

[denverYooper]

Ergo, Packers is not a top team.

They're not a top team now, but the distance to get there is only as far as the few feet that separate M3's head from his sphincter.

[pbmax]

They're not a top team now, but the distance to get there is only as far as the few feet that separate M3's head from his sphincter.

Exactly.

[Rutnstrut]

It's really quite simple. They are not a good team, hell they aren't even mediocre.

[call_me_ishmael]

The Packers will get to the divisional round or NFCC. All bets are off as to who wins there. They're super banged up right now.

It's tough to win a game when you're playing against a top tier QB and down so many corners and your top pass rusher. Does Denver beat Indy if Von Miller, Aqib Talib, Chris Harris and Webster are out? It's unlikely in my opinion. Hopefully Sammy Shields can come back for playoff time and Randall finally gets healthy.

They'll be fine.

[woodbuck27]

They're not a top team now, but the distance to get there is only as far as the few feet that separate M3's head from his sphincter.

You Americans measure distance funny. :roll:

[denverYooper]

The Packers will get to the divisional round or NFCC. All bets are off as to who wins there. They're super banged up right now. It's tough to win a game when you're playing against a top tier QB and down so many corners and your top pass rusher.

CM3 is not the D's top pass rusher at this point but he tilts the equation for the defense because he gives them a 3rd pressure point and legit speed rush. Besides Perry and Daniels, he's at least someone an offense has to account for and by far their best speed rusher. I doubt Capers would call as many DB blitzes if CM3 is in.

[woodbuck27]

Well here is the press and what the Packers really are and being a Super Bowl Contender. Most of us have observed Aaron Rodgers position and this matter and the condition of the Spirit and his team:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/07/ugly-home-losses-lack-of-juice-put-mike-mccarthy-firmly-on-the-hot-seat/

I watched this game and observed the rousing Spirit of the Packer fans. We as Packer fans deserve more than we saw yesterday. There is no way that the talent of Aaron Rodgers can win the day without a rushing attack. It's up to the Packers GM to ensure the running back position is better secured as to not force a one dimensional passing attack. How often do we see pass completions in the middle of the field within 20 yards of the LOS? Where are the crossing routes and the quick pass?

Yes the team is banged up but it's still the job of the GM and Coaching staff to put the best roster out there. The day of the excuses and same ole same ole are way over now. If you need a RB secure one. I believe that Ted Thompson is trying to do that today.

It's time for a big change and a more complete hands on approach of managing the team with one of the premiere QB's in the NFL. If TT and MM and Company cannot see that through with at least the effort expected a change must be expected.

Someone is thinking:

" all I want for Christmas is John Gruden as the Packers next head coach. "

[Sparkey]

The offense is pathetic. Their is no imagination in play calling, no imagination in route running.

It is exactly what is was four years ago. It seems offenses are continually adjusting except ours.

So what that tells me is McCarthy is stubborn and believes that "his offense" is not the problem. However, trying to fit square pegs into round holes is a receipe for insanity.

I think MM has far too many yes men working for him. He needs some people to tell him that his schemes don't work. Complacency is an innovation killer.

My final thought: Belicheck would alter the routes and scheme to fit the personnel. I don't see that from McCarthy.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Well here is the press and what the Packers really are and being a Super Bowl Contender. Most of us have observed Aaron Rodgers position and this matter and the condition of the Spirit and his team:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/11/07/ugly-home-losses-lack-of-juice-put-mike-mccarthy-firmly-on-the-hot-seat/

I watched this game and observed the rousing Spirit of the Packer fans. We as Packer fans deserve more than we saw yesterday. There is no way that the talent of Aaron Rodgers can win the day without a rushing attack. It's up to the Packers GM to ensure the running back position is better secured as to not force a one dimensional passing attack. How often do we see pass completions in the middle of the field within 20 yards of the LOS? Where are the crossing routes and the quick pass?

Yes the team is banged up but it's still the job of the GM and Coaching staff to put the best roster out there. The day of the excuses and same ole same ole are way over now. If you need a RB secure one. I believe that Ted Thompson is trying to do that today.

It's time for a big change and a more complete hands on approach of managing the team with one of the premiere QB's in the NFL. If TT and MM and Company cannot see that through with at least the effort expected a change must be expected.

Someone is thinking:

" all I want for Christmas is John Gruden as the Packers next head coach. "

S'up Woody. Welcome back. :)

Gotta disagree with ya here. RB? We don't need no stinkin' RB. Run and shoot all day, baby. Run and shoot. Even with Lacy running the rock, the run game appears to be a rhythm killer.

[Patler]

Context matters, at least a little bit. Let's look at the losses.

2015:
@Denver (12-4, SB Champ)
@Carolina (15-1 SB runner-up)
Detroit (7-9)
Chicago (6-10)
@Arizona (13-3, NFC runner-up)
Minnesota (11-5, NFCN champ)

2016:
@Minnesota (5-3, considered the best D at the time)
Dallas (7-1, best current record in NFC)
@Atlanta (6-3, #1 offense in the league)
Indianapolis (4-5)

7 of those 10 losses have come against top teams. The only loss that was against a truly bad team was vs. Chicago last year. Detroit was trending up when they beat the Packers and the Colts, despite struggling at the beginning of the year, have typically been a playoff team with Luck under center.

They clearly need to win some of those games to re-gain their position near the upper echelon of the league but we have to acknowledge that their record in that span has come against quality opposition.

The 10 losses have come against 9 different teams, roughly 30% of the other 31 teams. There are other very good teams they haven't played during this span, the seven you mentioned are not the only ones, nor even the 7 best. Besides, it's not difficult to find something positive to say about a lot of teams.

As a lot of coaches tell us, you are what your record is. This has been a sub-500 team for more than a season now. MAYBE, they are a middle of the pack team, but with three losses coming at home in games they were favored by more than a TD, I wonder.

[RashanGary]

Hang in there guys. Some tough breaks early. Lacy will be back. Nelson is getting himself back in shape. Randall was only healthy one game this year and was very good that one game. He'll be back. Matthews will be back. Aaron is starting to trust Adams and Cobb and Nelson and Monty out of the backfield....... OL is playing fantastic and should for years to come.

Lots of young guys playing and getting better.

Even if it doesn't happen for us this year, we've got a 4 year window. One more SB and Rodgers career is set as far as I'm concerned. I like this team. I like that AR and MM adjusted. I like our chances as we get healthy this year and going forward. I'm not jumping off any cliffs right now.

[woodbuck27]

Hang in there guys. Some tough breaks early. Lacy will be back. Nelson is getting himself back in shape. Randall was only healthy one game this year and was very good that one game. He'll be back. Matthews will be back. Aaron is starting to trust Adams and Cobb and Nelson and Monty out of the backfield....... OL is playing fantastic and should for years to come.

Lots of young guys playing and getting better.

Even if it doesn't happen for us this year, we've got a 4 year window. One more SB and Rodgers career is set as far as I'm concerned. I like this team. I like that AR and MM adjusted. I like our chances as we get healthy this year and going forward. I'm not jumping off any cliffs right now.

I like your optimism. I interpret it as:

Just wait and maybe wait a wee bit longer and well maybe a whole lot longer, yet be patient.

[Patler]

It's unknowable and a mostly indefensible argument, because you are expected to win no matter the circumstances, but it would be interesting to see what level this team could perform at being full strength.

Key guys who have been out or affected by injury includes Clay, Sam Shields, Jared Cook, Lacy, Starks (I'll count him since we only had two RB's, which is not the players' fault), Cobb (nagging injuries), Jordy (coming back from knee injury, still getting up to speed hopefully), as well as Randall and Rollins. I'd like to think these last two games would have gone differently had we been at full strength. I'd like to think that if Cook had just played his 9th game, he would have assimilated himself into the offense, and provided a threat that we currently do not have consistently in the middle of the field.

That would make us 6-2 and what would the conversation be then? Would Cook be the boat that raises all the other boats, ala Jordy in 2014? Who knows. Would the dialog about the offense be the same? Who knows.

Not having Clay to help with the pass rush and enough DB's (Shields, Randall and Rollins) to cover consistently has weakened the defense. No doubt about it. Would they have been better off keeping Hayward? Probably. They may have better withstood the injury bug by doing so. The kids we have are doing the best they can but losing top three CB's for any length of time is a nightmare scenario.

There are reasons and there are excuses. None of the latter can be made, but some of the former can.

In order for injuries to be a reason, their injuries have to be more significant than other teams'. In spite of losing Nelson for the whole season, the Packers didn't lose a lot of starter games to injuries last year compared to other teams around the league. JSO had an article after the season that showed they were actually quite healthy when looking at preferred starters actually starting the games. You can argue that many played while dinged up, but what team doesn't have that?

Yesterday was a good example of what is going wrong with this team. Both teams had weaknesses and strengths, yet where the packers had an apparent strength (pass rush) matched against a Colts weakness (pass protection), the Packer made little impact. On the other hand, Colts strengths against Packer weaknesses did make impacts.

[woodbuck27]

In order for injuries to be a reason, their injuries have to be more significant than other teams'. In spite of losing Nelson for the whole season, the Packers didn't lose a lot of starter games to injuries last year compared to other teams around the league. JSO had an article after the season that showed they were actually quite healthy when looking at preferred starters actually starting the games. You can argue that many played while dinged up, but what team doesn't have that?

Yesterday was a good example of what is going wrong with this team. Both teams had weaknesses and strengths, yet were the packers had an apparent strength (pass rush) matched against a Colts weakness (pass protection), the Packer made little impact. On the other hand, Colts strengths against Packer weaknesses did make impacts.

It's really about the will to win.

That was a very tough loss for the Packers in Atlanta. How much did that one point loss take away from the teams ultimate preparation for the home game Vs Indy?

The atmosphere to contribute to a team win was terrific at Lambeau. All that was wasted on the Packer team as a whole.

Where was the TEAM SPIRIT !?

[beveaux1]

It's unknowable and a mostly indefensible argument, because you are expected to win no matter the circumstances, but it would be interesting to see what level this team could perform at being full strength.

Key guys who have been out or affected by injury includes Clay, Sam Shields, Jared Cook, Lacy, Starks (I'll count him since we only had two RB's, which is not the players' fault), Cobb (nagging injuries), Jordy (coming back from knee injury, still getting up to speed hopefully), as well as Randall and Rollins. I'd like to think these last two games would have gone differently had we been at full strength. I'd like to think that if Cook had just played his 9th game, he would have assimilated himself into the offense, and provided a threat that we currently do not have consistently in the middle of the field.

That would make us 6-2 and what would the conversation be then? Would Cook be the boat that raises all the other boats, ala Jordy in 2014? Who knows. Would the dialog about the offense be the same? Who knows.

Not having Clay to help with the pass rush and enough DB's (Shields, Randall and Rollins) to cover consistently has weakened the defense. No doubt about it. Would they have been better off keeping Hayward? Probably. They may have better withstood the injury bug by doing so. The kids we have are doing the best they can but losing top three CB's for any length of time is a nightmare scenario.

There are reasons and there are excuses. None of the latter can be made, but some of the former can.

I agree with this. I think that perhaps the biggest loss for the Packers has been Shields. He's a legitimate #1 corner with the speed to close and the leaping ability to cover taller receivers. Is he a shut-down corner? That's debatable, but having him allowed us to play man and he rarely needed safety help. With him gone, probably forever, we have been forced to use Gunter, who may have been our dime CB, as our #1. Although he has length, he has no closing speed, and needs safety help. Our other corner has been either Goodson or Rollins in the last 5 games. Rollins is still learning the position and has potential, but would have been the nickel CB. Goodson was probably going to be cut when he came off suspension if injuries had not hit. Neither player is close to being NFL starter quality.

The CB position and the lack of effective pass rush without Mathews has limited our defensive calls, caused us to play zone a good portion of the time- something our defense is not good at nor comfortable with, and kept us from getting off the field on third down.

I just don't see how this changes over the next 8 weeks. Gunter is too limited physically. It would take a near-miracle for Goodson to progress to starting CB caliber. Rollins is still gimpy and still learning the position. Randall may not be back for 3 or 4 weeks and he wasn't a world beater when he was there. Matthews will be in and out all season with his hammy.

I don't care how well you coach, the most important part of the team is the talent of the players. We lack talent at arguably the 2nd most important position on the defense. Capers options are badly limited without that talent. We'll struggle to make the playoffs this year. In fact, a .500 record or below is a possibility.

[Patler]

It's really about the will to win.

That was a very tough loss for the Packers in Atlanta. How much did that one point loss take away from the teams ultimate preparation for the home game Vs Indy?

The atmosphere to contribute to a team win was terrific at Lambeau. All that was wasted on the Packer team as a whole.

Where was the TEAM SPIRIT !?

Hi Woody. Good to see you are back.

Where was the team spirit? The same place it has been in a number of embarrassing home losses the last two seasons. I always counted on MM having his team ready to play, but that hasn't been the case the last two years. Far too many time they have not been ready.

I wonder if some of the "old guard" like AR, CM, JN and others have lost confidence in McCarthy. I wonder if it stems from the Seattle playoff game when McCarthy seemed to lose touch with what was happening in the game, a fact he even admitted in the off season when he promoted Clements to play caller. Heck, he even admiitted to not knowing Matthews was on the sidelines for the last drive by Seattle in regulation time. Sitton and Rodger both criticized playing not to lose; how many others are thinking the same?

Does this team still trust MM to pull the right strings to give them a chance to win?

[Patler]

I agree with this. I think that perhaps the biggest loss for the Packers has been Shields. He's a legitimate #1 corner with the speed to close and the leaping ability to cover taller receivers. Is he a shut-down corner? That's debatable, but having him allowed us to play man and he rarely needed safety help. With him gone, probably forever, we have been forced to use Gunter, who may have been our dime CB, as our #1. Although he has length, he has no closing speed, and needs safety help. Our other corner has been either Goodson or Rollins in the last 5 games. Rollins is still learning the position and has potential, but would have been the nickel CB. Goodson was probably going to be cut when he came off suspension if injuries had not hit. Neither player is close to being NFL starter quality.

The CB position and the lack of effective pass rush without Mathews has limited our defensive calls, caused us to play zone a good portion of the time- something our defense is not good at nor comfortable with, and kept us from getting off the field on third down.

I just don't see how this changes over the next 8 weeks. Gunter is too limited physically. It would take a near-miracle for Goodson to progress to starting CB caliber. Rollins is still gimpy and still learning the position. Randall may not be back for 3 or 4 weeks and he wasn't a world beater when he was there. Matthews will be in and out all season with his hammy.

I don't care how well you coach, the most important part of the team is the talent of the players. We lack talent at arguably the 2nd most important position on the defense. Capers options are badly limited without that talent. We'll struggle to make the playoffs this year. In fact, a .500 record or below is a possibility.

That's all true, but the biggest turnaround on this team the last two years has been the downward spiral of the offense.

[woodbuck27]

Hi Woody. Good to see you are back.

Where was the team spirit? The same place it has been in a number of embarrassing home losses the last two seasons. I always counted on MM having his team ready to play, but that hasn't been the case the last two years. Far too many time they have not been ready.

I wonder if some of the "old guard" like AR, CM, JN and others have lost confidence in McCarthy. I wonder if it stems from the Seattle playoff game when McCarthy seemed to lose touch with what was happening in the game, a fact he even admitted in the off season when he promoted Clements to play caller. Heck, he even admiitted to not knowing Matthews was on the sidelines for the last drive by Seattle in regulation time. Sitton and Rodger both criticized playing not to lose; how many others are thinking the same?

Does this team still trust MM to pull the right strings to give them a chance to win?

It's good to be back Patler. My annual 4 Month Vacation from my life and football is again over.

The things never forgotten that come back to haunt you forever.

You know where I stand and confidence in MM and needing a win and "Big Game".

After a Viking loss earlier in the day the game Vs Indy was huge and how could the team come out so flat? The problem with the Packers has to be internal and a cancer to the teams future. A big change will soon come.

[Pugger]

In order for injuries to be a reason, their injuries have to be more significant than other teams'. In spite of losing Nelson for the whole season, the Packers didn't lose a lot of starter games to injuries last year compared to other teams around the league. JSO had an article after the season that showed they were actually quite healthy when looking at preferred starters actually starting the games. You can argue that many played while dinged up, but what team doesn't have that?

Yesterday was a good example of what is going wrong with this team. Both teams had weaknesses and strengths, yet where the packers had an apparent strength (pass rush) matched against a Colts weakness (pass protection), the Packer made little impact. On the other hand, Colts strengths against Packer weaknesses did make impacts.

On offense not having any running game to speak of makes things pretty easy for opposing defenses.

[beveaux1]

That's all true, but the biggest turnaround on this team the last two years has been the downward spiral of the offense.

The last 6 years our drafts have been heavy to the defensive side of the ball. Skill position players, other than Lacy and Adams, have not really been addressed in the first 2 rounds. The front 7 on defense has really not been a large problem. My thought is that we have very good talent there. The safety position has also been benefitted by high draft picks. It doesn't appear to be a problem. With that much talent on defense, they should be very good to excellent. Certainly good enough to allow an offense that is slower and older at the skill positions due to lack of first and second round talent reduce their output and still win. I have to think that was the drafting plan. Making this a team that relies more heavily on the defense to bail out that offense. I merely point out that as far as this season goes, the record should be 6-2 or even 7-1 if the CB position doesn't have those injuries. With Shields, we have a legitimate chance to beat Atlanta, Indy, and either Dallas or Minnesota. We also wouldn't be wondering why we were 8-10 overall since Denver.

[Patler]

The last 6 years our drafts have been heavy to the defensive side of the ball. Skill position players, other than Lacy and Adams, have not really been addressed in the first 2 rounds. The front 7 on defense has really not been a large problem. My thought is that we have very good talent there. The safety position has also been benefitted by high draft picks. It doesn't appear to be a problem. With that much talent on defense, they should be very good to excellent. Certainly good enough to allow an offense that is slower and older at the skill positions due to lack of first and second round talent reduce their output and still win. I have to think that was the drafting plan. Making this a team that relies more heavily on the defense to bail out that offense. I merely point out that as far as this season goes, the record should be 6-2 or even 7-1 if the CB position doesn't have those injuries. With Shields, we have a legitimate chance to beat Atlanta, Indy, and either Dallas or Minnesota. We also wouldn't be wondering why we were 8-10 overall since Denver.

I can't excuse the offense that easily. They keep telling us AR is the best there is. (Personally, I don't think he has played that way for quite some time.) That's more than half the battle. The OL is good. Maybe the skill positions aren't top of the 1st round talent, but they don't have to be to be successful. I think the league caught up to MM, and he has not yet figured out his countermoves.

[beveaux1]

I can't excuse the offense that easily. They keep telling us AR is the best there is. (Personally, I don't think he has played that way for quite some time.) That's more than half the battle. The OL is good. Maybe the skill positions aren't top of the 1st round talent, but they don't have to be to be successful. I think the league caught up to MM, and he has not yet figured out his countermoves.

No argument from me. The offense doesn't get a pass, and AR is not at the top of his game. I just believe the defense would have held up their end if not for the injuries at CB. I also think the record would be much better. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts.

[Carolina_Packer]

No argument from me. The offense doesn't get a pass, and AR is not at the top of his game. I just believe the defense would have held up their end if not for the injuries at CB. I also think the record would be much better. If ifs and buts were candy and nuts.

Yes, please don't interpret my earlier post as anything excusing the performance we are seeing on the field. However, you can't completely discount it either. It can be as simple as would you rather have Don Jackson on the field or Eddie Lacy? Would you rather have a healthy Sam Shields on the field or 2nd year Ladarius Gunter? That's no knock on Jackson or Gunter. They are where they are in their development which isn't far.

Does ARod have to play with the guys who are available? Yup. Is the Packers approach on offense stubborn to get big plays when perhaps they should think about coming up with ways to just get guys open and move the sticks? "Taking what the defense is giving?" Would that be beneficial to the D? It sure would.

No matter which route tree or patterns you follow, you still need to beat man coverage. If your guys can't beat man coverage, then you have to come up with ways to do that. Have they showed signs of that?

Lastly, you need to execute. It really comes down to that. When you are coming off the corner on a blitz, you cannot let the QB side-step and get away. When your QB drops a perfectly thrown ball in your bread basket on a go, you need to haul it in. When you roll out of the pocket and find an open receiver, you need to set your feet and not sail the pass.

[Maxie the Taxi]

This is Dom Capers 8th year. Maybe his schemes are being countered by Offensive Coordinators around the league as well.

[pbmax]

This is Dom Capers 8th year. Maybe his schemes are being countered by Offensive Coordinators around the league as well.

You need to take a week off Mr. We Should Blitz More!

:D

[Maxie the Taxi]

You need to take a week off Mr. We Should Blitz More!

:DI actually was pleased that they blitzed as they did. Unfortunately they didn't get to Luck as many times as they should have. A couple times he escaped and made a play. Maybe we just don't have the personnel to make the plays. We're certainly not Denver, or even Atlanta or Chicago. Peppers is no where near what he used to be and a few of our guys (Ryan, Thomas, Clark and Guion) are just not natural pass rushers. I liked that they brought Ha Ha and Burnett a couple times. I actually think it's still there best chance against an elite QB. In fact, I'd do the same thing against Mariota next week. I just don't think we've got the horses to adequately pressure the QB with only four. Maybe with Mathews. Maybe we'll get it right with practice. :-)

[pbmax]

I actually was pleased that they blitzed as they did. Unfortunately they didn't get to Luck as many times as they should have. A couple times he escaped and made a play. Maybe we just don't have the personnel to make the plays. We're certainly not Denver, or even Atlanta or Chicago. Peppers is no where near what he used to be and a few of our guys (Ryan, Thomas, Clark and Guion) are just not natural pass rushers. I liked that they brought Ha Ha and Burnett a couple times. I actually think it's still there best chance against an elite QB. In fact, I'd do the same thing against Mariota next week. I just don't think we've got the horses to adequately pressure the QB with only four. Maybe with Mathews. Maybe we'll get it right with practice. :-)

They need to either go for him arm and make him pull the ball down and reset OR break down and tackle. They are going full speed and getting sidestepped pretty easily.

[Bossman641]

Welcome back Woody.

It's getting harder and harder to believe, but it's certainly possible that this team will play much better down the stretch once some people get healthy and the younger players continue to improve as a result of all these unexpected snaps they are getting. The next 3 games will tell the story though. If they aren't at least 6-5 then I don't think they have a shot.

[Rastak]

It's really about the will to win.

That was a very tough loss for the Packers in Atlanta. How much did that one point loss take away from the teams ultimate preparation for the home game Vs Indy?

The atmosphere to contribute to a team win was terrific at Lambeau. All that was wasted on the Packer team as a whole.

Where was the TEAM SPIRIT !?


Hey Woody, good to see ya back.