Elite Pay, But Not Elite Play

[Joemailman]

Aaron Rodgers Cap Hit: 19.25 million. 15th in passing yards, 3rd in TD's, 11th in Passer Rating

Clay Matthews Cap Hit: 13.75 million Played in 5 games with 12 tackles and 3 sacks

Sam Shields Cap Hit: 12 million Played in 1 game with 3 tackles

Julius Peppers Cap Hit: 10.5 million 8 tackles, 3.5 sacks

Randall Cobb Cap Hit 9.15 million 402 receiving yards (55th in NFL) 3 TD's

Jordy Nelson Cap Hit: 8.3 million 509 receiving yards (30th in NFL) 7 TD's

About 47% of Packers salary cap tied up in these 6 players. Not a lot to show, other than Rodgers" TD passes and Jordy's TD's. Is it any wonder Packers are mediocre right now?

Rodgers isn't going anywhere. Peppers is probably in his last year with Packers. Shields could be forced to retire. If not, do Packers keep paying him? Matthews' hamstring problems have returned again. Jordy is a crafty receiver, but will he get his speed back? Cobb needs Packers to have a true #1 for him to be truly effective.

Packers have some tough decisions to make this offseason. Any thoughts?

[pbmax]

You can't keep Nelson and Cobb at that rate if it costs young talent. One would have to go.

But since young talent at WR will be comparatively cheap, their continued presence on the roster will be dependent on other salaries, not other WRs.

So if you do Lang and Perry this offseason, then the pressure starts to ramp up.

[Joemailman]

Do the Packers get any salary cap relief if Shields has to retire, or does the remaining signing bonus money (3.125 million) all hit in 2017?

I actually didn't realize until now that 2017 is the last year on his contract.

[red]

a rod hopefully will get better with a new HC

peppers should have retired last year, he'll be gone for next year for sure, this is the last year of his contract

mathews is never on the field when we need him most, and even when he is, he's far from the elite player he once was

shields is done, i'm sure we'll have some kind of cap hit from him, but i doubt its the whole thing, probably just bonus money

cobb never should have been paid that much money for what he is, a slot reciever totally dependent on other wr's to get the coverage off of him

jordy has lost a big step. lets all hope he can still get it back, or else he isn't worth the big bucks anymore either

looking at it this way, you see just how devoid we are of elite talent, we get guys getting paid like elite talent, but we are getting little return for our money

[Patler]

Peppers obviously is done
Shields is a FA in 2018, if they even have him back next year, which I doubt.
Mathews, Nelson and Cobb are FAs in 2019. I suspect those three to be back next year, but one or more could be Sittonized in 2018.

[gbgary]

no tough decisions this off season... except how far to move up and get a wr in the first round!

[Patler]

Do the Packers get any salary cap relief if Shields has to retire, or does the remaining signing bonus money (3.125 million) all hit in 2017?

I actually didn't realize until now that 2017 is the last year on his contract.

The remaining year of the signing bonus would count against the 2017 salary cap.
If Shields fails his physical at the end of the season, and fails the preseason physical in 2017 for the same reason, he is entitled to half his 2017 base salary to a maximum of $1,150,000.

Looks like Shields could count $4,275,000 against the 2017 salary cap if concussions keep him from playing.

[Pugger]

no tough decisions this off season... except how far to move up and get a wr in the first round!

If the team keeps playing like they have been moving up won't be necessary.

[woodbuck27]

If the team keeps playing like they have been moving up won't be necessary.

Yup.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Peppers's not the freak he was in his prime, but man, dude still shows up for work everyday - unlike that milksop Claymaker. Gonna be sad to see Pep go. Even sadder to see him leave the game without a ring as nothing more than a rich man's Jared Allen.

In my humble stoic opinion, the Claymaker is still elite at OLB when he's on the field, even though he's now the football equivalent of a "cougar" at 30-something. Problem is, the Claymaker's, to quote myself, "Softer than an impotent rooster." Claymaker can't stay on the field, and even when he's fine and dandy, he won't stay on the field. Packers might as well use that $14 M they will pay the Claymaker next season on a shutdown corner instead.

Keep an eye out for Janis in the next 8 games. This dawg will rock the league and make Nelson expendable.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

If the team keeps playing like they have been moving up won't be necessary.

If Pack don't finish 4-12, I'd rather see the team move up to get RB Leo Fournette. It will be interesting to see how Josh McDaniels plays his cards as GM/Coach of the Packers in 2017.

[denverYooper]

McDaniels might have improved with age but he was a disaster in Denver the first time around.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Fritz]

Joe, I think your post at the top is really incisive. You can debate talent on the roster in places, you can debate coaching, all of that, but when you simply look at the guys you're paying to be blue-chip players - the stars, the difference makers - they're not making that difference.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

McDaniels might have improved with age but he was a disaster in Denver the first time around.

Be careful what you wish for.

In another universe, Wolf said something like that back in 2000 about Belichick. Said the ole Bill was a disaster in Cleveland. Mike Sherman was hired to coach the Pack instead.

If Bretsky is correct, J-Mac is the second coming of Belichick the Patriot.

[pbmax]

In another universe, Wolf said something like that back in 2000 about Belichick. Said the ole Bill was a disaster in Cleveland. Mike Sherman was hired to coach the Pack instead.

If Bretsky is correct, J-Mac is the second coming of Belichick the Patriot.

One of the lessons Belichick learned was that he wanted control of the roster. Wolf wouldn't have given him that. He was never going to be hired to coach the Packers in 2000.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

One of the lessons Belichick learned was that he wanted control of the roster. Wolf wouldn't have given him that. He was never going to be hired to coach the Packers in 2000.

Funny how thing turned out. Wolf quit shortly after hiring Sherman. Recommended Sherman be his successor.

Sherman was a poor man's Belichick, and even a poor man's Belichick is good enough to win more than a fluke Super Bowl. All Sherman needed was more time.

[Patler]

Funny how thing turned out. Wolf quit shortly after hiring Sherman. Recommended Sherman be his successor.

Sherman was a poor man's Belichick, and even a poor man's Belichick is good enough to win more than a fluke Super Bowl. All Sherman needed was more time.

With more time, things would have gotten worse and worse with Sherman as GM. The roster was deteriorating under him.

[pbmax]

Funny how thing turned out. Wolf quit shortly after hiring Sherman. Recommended Sherman be his successor.

Sherman was a poor man's Belichick, and even a poor man's Belichick is good enough to win more than a fluke Super Bowl. All Sherman needed was more time.

Don't make me post a memo about cell phones in the briefing room.

Instead just read the story of Mike Sherman, aka Colonel Kurtz: http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?3706-Profootball-talk-chimes-in-on-the-Packers-recent-drafts&p=81109&viewfull=1#post81109

Bonus Colonel Kurtz stories about almost drafting Romo!: http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?27328-Head-Coach-Exit-Watch-Five-NFL-head-coaches-who-will-be-fired-Really&p=819346&viewfull=1#post819346

[Anti-Polar Bear]

With more time, things would have gotten worse and worse with Sherman as GM. The roster was deteriorating under him.

That's just your biased opinion.

Given more time and the inflated cap Thompson has had, the math says that Sherman would've made Pack the Pats of the NFC - perhaps with a couple more Super Bowl titles.

Sherman utilized ALL aspects of the game, competently, and he had to deal with the large contracts Wolf paid out to the likes of Levens and Freeman.

[pbmax]

If only some other team had recognized the genius that was the Na'il Diggs FA contract, Joe Johnson FA contract or the Mike Wahle balloon payment. Or the handling of Mike McKenzie's holdout. Or the quality plan of succession after letting Josh Bidwell go to Tampa.

Certainly some other team recognized the man's GM talent? How many pro GM offers did Mike get before qualifying to be OC for the Dolphins?

Speaking of which, I am still searching for Bob McGinn's writeup on the Packer decision making process under Sherman. The one that detailed how he banned scouts from the discussion of draft picks after they made their reports. the in-fighting, the studious fingers in his ears approach. Anyone got a link?

[Patler]

That's just your biased opinion.

Given more time and the inflated cap Thompson has had, the math says that Sherman would've made Pack the Pats of the NFC - perhaps with a couple more Super Bowl titles.

Sherman utilized ALL aspects of the game, competently, and he had to deal with the large contracts Wolf paid out to the likes of Levens and Freeman.

Sherman made his share of big contract mistakes, too; but his biggest failing was constantly trading 2 for 1 to move up in the draft, and then drafting guys who were failures.

[Patler]

That's just your biased opinion.

Given more time and the inflated cap Thompson has had, the math says that Sherman would've made Pack the Pats of the NFC - perhaps with a couple more Super Bowl titles.

Sherman utilized ALL aspects of the game, competently, and he had to deal with the large contracts Wolf paid out to the likes of Levens and Freeman.

Of course it is my opinion, just as your statement that he just needed more time is your biased opinion.

The difference is that I am right and you are wrong! :-)

[Rutnstrut]

I've said for a long time part time Peppers should have been cut last year. They should have traded Clay ann Mathews while they could get something for him. Cobb is over rated as hell.

[red]

a question for you older guys

back in the day when football players looked like men and didn't worry about brushing their hair at night, did guys miss half a season because of a pulled hammy?

remember the story about the tower falling on nitschke during practice and lombardi not worrying about it, cause ray was the guy trapped by the tower?

clay would have been in the training room getting treatment on something during practice and never would have been near the tower

remember when "god healed" reggie's torn, season ending hamstring, and he led us to a super bowl

not this team

[Maxie the Taxi]

a question for you older guys

back in the day when football players looked like men and didn't worry about brushing their hair at night, did guys miss half a season because of a pulled hammy?

remember the story about the tower falling on nitschke during practice and lombardi not worrying about it, cause ray was the guy trapped by the tower?

clay would have been in the training room getting treatment on something during practice and never would have been near the tower

remember when "god healed" reggie's torn, season ending hamstring, and he led us to a super bowl

not this teamYou know the answer. But it was a different era and a different game then. Guys played for reasons other than money. Yes Nitschke played hurt, but then so did Starr and Hornung, most notably. I'll say this too. Guys tended to play the entire season but when they couldn't go Lombardi and Wolff went out and got capable replacements.

[woodbuck27]

Aaron Rodgers Cap Hit: 19.25 million. 15th in passing yards, 3rd in TD's, 11th in Passer Rating

Clay Matthews Cap Hit: 13.75 million Played in 5 games with 12 tackles and 3 sacks

Sam Shields Cap Hit: 12 million Played in 1 game with 3 tackles

Julius Peppers Cap Hit: 10.5 million 8 tackles, 3.5 sacks

Randall Cobb Cap Hit 9.15 million 402 receiving yards (55th in NFL) 3 TD's

Jordy Nelson Cap Hit: 8.3 million 509 receiving yards (30th in NFL) 7 TD's

About 47% of Packers salary cap tied up in these 6 players. Not a lot to show, other than Rodgers" TD passes and Jordy's TD's. Is it any wonder Packers are mediocre right now?

Rodgers isn't going anywhere. Peppers is probably in his last year with Packers. Shields could be forced to retire. If not, do Packers keep paying him? Matthews' hamstring problems have returned again. Jordy is a crafty receiver, but will he get his speed back? Cobb needs Packers to have a true #1 for him to be truly effective.

Packers have some tough decisions to make this offseason. Any thoughts?

One fact for sure. Packer Nation needs people in place that are not at all affected by emotions and retaining any man on the roster. That means Ted Thompson needs to retire or be removed.

[pbmax]

They played hurt because they were eminently replaceable parts. No one made that much more money, so to lose one to the bench was no big deal. There were 12 or 16 teams so there were tons of college players to pull from.

They needed this job and sometimes a summer job. They were in no position to say they were wrecked.

You here many stories of the old guys playing hurt. You are never told if they usually played well when hurt.

They also didn't weigh 260 pounds and run like a wideout.

[Rutnstrut]

The old guys didn't miss time due to hair problems like split ends or a bad styling as Clay is. He is a clear example of the kind of pussy that TT loves to draft.

[Maxie the Taxi]

They also didn't weigh 260 pounds and run like a wideout. Or use performance enhancing drugs...except for tobacco and alcohol. :-)

[Zool]

That's just your biased opinion.

No that is pretty easy to prove fact. Your inability to move beyond your pinnacle years of using dad's credit card on hookers is what causes these illusions in your mind.

[Zool]

Lombardi and Wolff went out and got capable replacements.

I think that era is over with expansion and expanded rosters/practice squads. Ask the Vikings if there are any capable left tackles available. The pickins are slim.

[Pugger]

That's just your biased opinion.

Given more time and the inflated cap Thompson has had, the math says that Sherman would've made Pack the Pats of the NFC - perhaps with a couple more Super Bowl titles.

Sherman utilized ALL aspects of the game, competently, and he had to deal with the large contracts Wolf paid out to the likes of Levens and Freeman.

If Sherman was so damn wonderful why can't he find work in the college ranks, let alone the NFL?? Are all these GMs/owners/athetic directors morons? :lol:

[pbmax]

Or use performance enhancing drugs...except for tobacco and alcohol. :-)

And amphetamines.

[pbmax]

If Sherman was so damn wonderful why can't he find work in the college ranks, let alone the NFL?? Are all these GMs/owners/athetic directors morons? :lol:

He doesn't actually believe most of that post. He just knows it drives people crazy. Patter and I can't resist.

Zool is the only wise one who mostly refuses to engage.

[KYPack]

Whoa, Tank is right about one thing.
Sherm's ineptitude as a GM is our opinion.

Let's look at the opinion of the man who hired the PSL and eventually fired him from the GM gig.

Bob Harlan.

Quote on

Harlan was, however, never comfortable with such a consolidation of power, and grew increasingly concerned as Sherman blew high draft picks on busts and floundered in drawing free agents. “The burden changed him as a person,” Harlan said. “He became very quiet, he ignored everybody. He would get on the airplane on Saturdays, put on earphones and not talk to anybody. I made a mistake in giving Mike both jobs. It was too much.”

Quote off

[Anti-Polar Bear]

If Sherman was so damn wonderful why can't he find work in the college ranks, let alone the NFL?? Are all these GMs/owners/athetic directors morons? :lol:

They hired a basketball brass over Thompson, didn't they? Morons, indeed.

As pb unwisely posted, Sherman found work in the NFL after leaving Green Bay. Subsequently became head coach at Texas AM; taught the arts of the game to some diamond in the rough named Von Miller, turned a WR into a hotshot QB, recruited the great Johnny Football, among others.

Someone had to be the scapegoat in Miami in the aftermath of "Bullygate", and unfortunately, Sherman was the guy.

[pbmax]

As pb unwisely posted, Sherman found work in the NFL after leaving Green Bay. .

So the proof of his capable GM stewardship is being hired as Assistant Head Coach - Offense?

Even you don't seem to think much of Sherman.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

If only some other team had recognized the genius that was the Na'il Diggs FA contract, Joe Johnson FA contract or the Mike Wahle balloon payment. Or the handling of Mike McKenzie's holdout. Or the quality plan of succession after letting Josh Bidwell go to Tampa.

Certainly some other team recognized the man's GM talent? How many pro GM offers did Mike get before qualifying to be OC for the Dolphins?

Speaking of which, I am still searching for Bob McGinn's writeup on the Packer decision making process under Sherman. The one that detailed how he banned scouts from the discussion of draft picks after they made their reports. the in-fighting, the studious fingers in his ears approach. Anyone got a link?

Diggs was a solid football player. Matching the 4 year $10.5 M deal Diggs got from Detriot was a no-brainer. Thompson spent more than that, even if you take inflation into the equation, on that bum Mike Neal.

Sherman ingeniously traded the disgruntled McKenzie to New Orleans for a 2nd rounder, for which Thompson used it on some small-school safety with a low wonderlic named Nick Collins.

Letting Bidwell go, or trading up in the 3rd round to draft a punter, pale in comparison to cutting the great Jon Ryan for the noodle-legged "Scott" Frost.

Your last paragraph, those kind of shits happened, and are still happening, in New England, too. There are plenty of reports out there about ole Bill overriding his scouts for players who excited him. Again, Sherman was a poor-man's Belichick. The Shermanator just needed more time.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

So the proof of his capable GM stewardship is being hired as Assistant Head Coach - Offense?

Even you don't seem to think much of Sherman.

Sherman deserves another shot as GM and/or head coach.

NFL decision makers are morons. Why else would they hire a basketball brass over the "competent" Polar Bear?

[pbmax]

Diggs was a solid football player. Matching the 4 year $10.5 M deal Diggs got from Detriot was a no-brainer. Thompson spent more than that, even if you take inflation into the equation, on that bum Mike Neal.

Sherman ingeniously traded the disgruntled McKenzie to New Orleans for a 2nd rounder, for which Thompson used it on some small-school safety with a low wonderlic named Nick Collins.

Letting Bidwell go, or trading up in the 3rd round to draft a punter, pale in comparison to cutting the great Jon Ryan for the noodle-legged "Scott" Frost.

Your last paragraph, those kind of shits happened, and are still happening, in New England, too. There are plenty of reports out there about ole Bill overriding his scouts for players who excited him. Again, Sherman was a poor-man's Belichick. The Shermanator just needed more time.

C'mon this is no fun if you aren't going to put effort into your trolling. Mike Neal signed for 2 years and 8 million.

Unless you are a reverse conspiracy theorist and believe that we have had negative inflation for the past 10 years.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

C'mon this is no fun if you aren't going to put effort into your trolling. Mike Neal signed for 2 years and 8 million.

Unless you are a reverse conspiracy theorist and believe that we have had negative inflation for the past 10 years.

Ain't trolling, yo.

Diggs contract, signed in 2003, averaged $2.625 M/yr. That's worth about $3.44 M/yr today. 3.44 < 4.

Plus, Diggs was a far better football playa then Neal was.

[pbmax]

Ain't trolling, yo.

Diggs contract, signed in 2003, averaged $2.625 M/yr. That's worth about $3.44 M/yr today. 3.44 < 4.

Plus, Diggs was a far better football playa then Neal was.

Salary cap has increased a LOT more than the national CPI.

[pbmax]

2003 Cap was $75.0 million
2014 Cap was $133 million

Increase of 1.77

Diggs 2.625 equals 4.66 million/yr in 2014.

Neal was a bargain at Diggsian pricing levels.

[Patler]

As I recall, the mistake that Sherman made with Diggs was in the tender he offered. I believe Sherman made the low tender offer that would cost a team a draft pick in the round the player was selected. He could have offered a much higher tender, I believe even a first round tender, and gotten by cheaper than what he paid that year for Diggs by matching the offer sheet. No one would have given a 1st round pick for Diggs, but if they did, GB should have taken it an ran.

Long and short, they could have gotten another year of Diggs a lot cheaper, or a high round pick in his place.

[Sparkey]

Here are Sherman's great drafts:

2001:
1 10 Jamal Reynolds DE Florida State
2 41 Robert Ferguson WR Texas A&M
3 71 Bhawoh Jue SS Penn State
3 72 Torrance Marshall LB Oklahoma
4 105 Bill Ferrario G Wisconsin
6 198 David Martin TE Tennessee

2002:
1 20 Javon Walker WR Florida State
3 92 Marques Anderson SS UCLA
4 135 Najeh Davenport FB Miami (Fla.)
5 156 Aaron Kampman DE Iowa
5 164 Craig Nall QB Northwestern State-Louisiana
6 200 Mike Houghton G San Diego State

2003:
1 29 Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State
3 79 Kenny Peterson DE Ohio State
5 147 James Lee DT Oregon State
5 166 Hunter Hillenmeyer LB Vanderbilt
6 212 Brennan Curtin T Notre Dame
7 245 Chris Johnson DB Louisville
7 253 DeAndrew Rubin -- South Florida
7 256 Carl Ford WR Toledo
7 257 Steve Josue LB Carson-Newman

2004:
1 25 Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
3 70 Joey Thomas CB Montana State
3 72 Donnell Washington DT Clemson
3 87 B.J. Sander P Ohio State
6 179 Corey Williams DT Arkansas State
7 251 Scott Wells C Tennessee


After a quick review I think we should be thankful Sherman was canned when he was.

[Patler]

Here are Sherman's great drafts:
...

2003:
1 29 Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State
3 79 Kenny Peterson DE Ohio State
5 147 James Lee DT Oregon State
5 166 Hunter Hillenmeyer LB Vanderbilt
6 212 Brennan Curtin T Notre Dame
7 245 Chris Johnson DB Louisville
7 253 DeAndrew Rubin -- South Florida
7 256 Carl Ford WR Toledo
7 257 Steve Josue LB Carson-Newman

2004:
1 25 Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
3 70 Joey Thomas CB Montana State
3 72 Donnell Washington DT Clemson
3 87 B.J. Sander P Ohio State
6 179 Corey Williams DT Arkansas State
7 251 Scott Wells C Tennessee


After a quick review I think we should be thankful Sherman was canned when he was.

It doesn't have the full effect without the following

In 2003:
He traded #94 and #127 for #79 (Kenny Peterson).
He traded #165 and #203 for #147 (James Lee).
He traded #185 and #244 for #166 to draft Hunter Hillenmeyer, who he cut and let go to the Bears.
He traded his 2004 6th round (turned out to be #185) to Philadelphis for #245 (Chris Johnson).

In 2004:
He traded #55, #86 and #118 to Jacksonville for #70 (Joey Thomas) #72 (Washington) and #102.
He then traded #102 and #153 to Miami for #87 (B.J Sander).
He traded #188 and #226 to SF for #179 (Corey Williams)
At the end of the day, he gave up #55, #86, #118, #153, #188 and #226 for
#70 - Thomas
#72 - Washington
#87 - Sander
#179 - Williams

Two year summary: 13 of the picks he went into the draft with brought 8 players; Peterson, Lee, Hillenmeyer, Johnson, Thomas, Washington, Sander and Williams. Then, he gave away Hillenmeyer, who had a decent career.

[beveaux1]

It doesn't have the full effect without the following

In 2003:
He traded #94 and #127 for #79 (Kenny Peterson).
He traded #165 and #203 for #147 (James Lee).
He traded #185 and #244 for #166 to draft Hunter Hillenmeyer, who he cut and let go to the Bears.
He traded his 2004 6th round (turned out to be #185) to Philadelphis for #245 (Chris Johnson).

In 2004:
He traded #55, #86 and #118 to Jacksonville for #70 (Joey Thomas) #72 (Washington) and #102.
He then traded #102 and #153 to Miami for #87 (B.J Sander).
He traded #188 and #226 to SF for #179 (Corey Williams)
At the end of the day, he gave up #55, #86, #118, #153, #188 and #226 for
#70 - Thomas
#72 - Washington
#87 - Sander
#179 - Williams

Two year summary: 13 of the picks he went into the draft with brought 8 players; Peterson, Lee, Hillenmeyer, Johnson, Thomas, Washington, Sander and Williams. Then, he gave away Hillenmeyer, who had a decent career.

This would be a bottom 10 GM.

[ThunderDan]

If you have to trade up to draft a punter and he can't beat out the current punter on the roster you are a bottom 1 GM.

[red]

If you have to trade up to draft a punter and he can't beat out the current punter on the roster you are a bottom 1 GM.

He should have been fired on the spot for that one

[denverYooper]

https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2175/2201345377_e910fb99fa.jpg

[call_me_ishmael]

Who cares about Mike Sherman? Let it go. It's time to move on. It's been, what, 11 years? Who TF cares?

[Zool]

Good lord I had purged the name Joey Thomas from my mind on purpose. How awful were he and Carroll? What a shit show.

[pbmax]

Good lord I had purged the name Joey Thomas from my mind on purpose. How awful were he and Carroll? What a shit show.

Didn't they get into a fight as well?

At least Carroll gifted us with Grabby Smurf. Who coined that one?

That Rat should get a plaque.

[pbmax]

Who cares about Mike Sherman? Let it go. It's time to move on. It's been, what, 11 years? Who TF cares?

We were provoked!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOOTKA0aGI0&t=173

[Smidgeon]

Didn't they get into a fight as well?

At least Carroll gifted us with Grabby Smurf. Who coined that one?

That Rat should get a plaque.

I believe the proper name was Grabby McSmurf.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

2003 Cap was $75.0 million
2014 Cap was $133 million

Increase of 1.77

Diggs 2.625 equals 4.66 million/yr in 2014.

Neal was a bargain at Diggsian pricing levels.

Whatever.

To quote Harlan, lets just "agree to disagree without being agreeable." :)

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Here are Sherman's great drafts:

2001:
1 10 Jamal Reynolds DE Florida State
2 41 Robert Ferguson WR Texas A&M
3 71 Bhawoh Jue SS Penn State
3 72 Torrance Marshall LB Oklahoma
4 105 Bill Ferrario G Wisconsin
6 198 David Martin TE Tennessee

2002:
1 20 Javon Walker WR Florida State
3 92 Marques Anderson SS UCLA
4 135 Najeh Davenport FB Miami (Fla.)
5 156 Aaron Kampman DE Iowa
5 164 Craig Nall QB Northwestern State-Louisiana
6 200 Mike Houghton G San Diego State

2003:
1 29 Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State
3 79 Kenny Peterson DE Ohio State
5 147 James Lee DT Oregon State
5 166 Hunter Hillenmeyer LB Vanderbilt
6 212 Brennan Curtin T Notre Dame
7 245 Chris Johnson DB Louisville
7 253 DeAndrew Rubin -- South Florida
7 256 Carl Ford WR Toledo
7 257 Steve Josue LB Carson-Newman

2004:
1 25 Ahmad Carroll CB Arkansas
3 70 Joey Thomas CB Montana State
3 72 Donnell Washington DT Clemson
3 87 B.J. Sander P Ohio State
6 179 Corey Williams DT Arkansas State
7 251 Scott Wells C Tennessee


After a quick review I think we should be thankful Sherman was canned when he was.

The 2001 draft class was Wolf's last, not Sherman's first. A lame duck GM, Wolf apparently didn't give a fuck about it. Probably should've taken LB Dan Morgan instead, or traded down and take Ocho Cinco. Also, Ferguson over Chambers was pretty idiotic.

You forgot to bold Corey Williams. The DT wasn't Suh-elite, but he was good enough to net Thompson a 2nd rounder, for which the Polar Bear incompetently wasted on the great Brian Brohm.

Chris Johnson was a diamond in the rough. Fast as fuck but needed time to develop. Went on to have a nice career in Oakland after Thompson incompetently traded him to the Rams for Robert Thomas, who spent one Hades-awful season in Green Bay.

[pbmax]

You forgot to bold Corey Williams. The DT wasn't Suh-elite, but he was good enough to net Thompson a 2nd rounder, for which the Polar Bear incompetently wasted on the great Brian Brohm.

Its good we can agree that in most cases, it took Thompson to clean up Mike's messes.

Also, Tank you know that Wolf fessed up later that Sherman wanted a pass rusher in the first round and he didn't feel he could deny the new guy his man.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

It doesn't have the full effect without the following

In 2003:
He traded #94 and #127 for #79 (Kenny Peterson).
He traded #165 and #203 for #147 (James Lee).
He traded #185 and #244 for #166 to draft Hunter Hillenmeyer, who he cut and let go to the Bears.
He traded his 2004 6th round (turned out to be #185) to Philadelphis for #245 (Chris Johnson).

In 2004:
He traded #55, #86 and #118 to Jacksonville for #70 (Joey Thomas) #72 (Washington) and #102.
He then traded #102 and #153 to Miami for #87 (B.J Sander).
He traded #188 and #226 to SF for #179 (Corey Williams)
At the end of the day, he gave up #55, #86, #118, #153, #188 and #226 for
#70 - Thomas
#72 - Washington
#87 - Sander
#179 - Williams

Two year summary: 13 of the picks he went into the draft with brought 8 players; Peterson, Lee, Hillenmeyer, Johnson, Thomas, Washington, Sander and Williams. Then, he gave away Hillenmeyer, who had a decent career.

How convenient of you to omit the trade up for J-Walk. Or how Sherman ingeniously traded a 2 for shutdown corner Al Harris. You should be the "biased" rat, not "fact" rat. :)

Hillenmeyer didn't do shit in the preseason to make the team.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Its good we can agree that in most cases, it took Thompson to clean up Mike's messes.

Also, Tank you know that Wolf fessed up later that Sherman wanted a pass rusher in the first round and he didn't feel he could deny the new guy his man.

Clean up Sherman's messes? lol. Polar Bear's so incompetent, take him back to the Devine days, and he wound fail miserably to clean up the mess left by Devine's dog after someone shot it.

If anything, the Polar Bear attempted to discredit Sherman by getting rid of players such as Walker, Barnett, Williams and Cullen Jenkins while all were still in their primes.

Wolf still had final say. And he had an ego that was bigger than that of the Roman god Jupiter. If Wolf didn't like Reynolds, Reynolds would never have been a Packer bust.

[Patler]

How convenient of you to omit the trade up for J-Walk. Or how Sherman ingeniously traded a 2 for shutdown corner Al Harris. You should be the "biased" rat, not "fact" rat. :)

Hillenmeyer didn't do shit in the preseason to make the team.

You are right about Harris, I should have included him. Not Walker because I didn't include 2001 or 2002. I focused on his last two years, which I thought showed how he as spiraling out of control as a GM. In 2003 he basically traded two for one all the way down the draft. Then in 2004 he traded picks all over the place, ended up with picks close enough to some he gave up that he probably could have drafted the same four players without making a single trade, but he gave away two picks in the process of all the trades.

I completely disagree about Hillenmeyer. As I recall, he had a decent camp, and several reporters were very surprised that he was released. They blasted Sherman's attempt to be clever in trying to sneak him through to the PS. The problem was, Hillenmeyer didn't really want to be in GB, which a while later he described as a "sobering thought" after he realized he was drafted by the Packers.

Sherman kept Steve Josue instead.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You are right about Harris, I should have included him. Not Walker because I didn't include 2001 or 2002. I focused on his last two years, which I thought showed how he as spiraling out of control as a GM. In 2003 he basically traded two for one all the way down the draft. Then in 2004 he traded picks all over the place, ended up with picks close enough to some he gave up that he probably could have drafted the same four players without making a single trade, but he gave away two picks in the process of all the trades.

I completely disagree about Hillenmeyer. As I recall, he had a decent camp, and several reporters were very surprised that he was released. They blasted Sherman's attempt to be clever in trying to sneak him through to the PS. The problem was, Hillenmeyer didn't really want to be in GB, which a while later he described as a "sobering thought" after he realized he was drafted by the Packers.

Sherman kept Steve Josue instead.

Perhaps Sherman believed the Packers were close to winning the Super Bowl, so he tried to find impact players instead doing what Thompson likes to do and trade down for a million more 7th rounders (hoping 'em low picks pan out in 5 years).

Trust me, if Thompson had traded ALL of his 2016 picks to move up for Zeke Elliot, Pack would be better than 4-5 right now.

[Fritz]

Perhaps Sherman believed the Packers were close to winning the Super Bowl, so he tried to find impact players instead doing what Thompson likes to do and trade down for a million more 7th rounders (hoping 'em low picks pan out in 5 years).

Trust me, if Thompson had traded ALL of his 2016 picks to move up for Zeke Elliot, Pack would be better than 4-5 right now.

The problem with your attempted logic is that Sherman never traded up for a Zeke Elliot impact player. He traded up for guys like BJ Sander and Kenny Peterson.

So all you're left with as a defense of Sherman is "Well, at least he tried."

Try that line out on your girlfriend when you can't get it up. See if it makes her feel any better.

[pbmax]

Hillenmeyer's cut surprised everybody at the time. The kid seemed like a good find. The Bear's pick him up immediately.

[pbmax]

The problem with your attempted logic is that Sherman never traded up for a Zeke Elliot impact player. He traded up for guys like BJ Sander and Kenny Peterson.

So all you're left with as a defense of Sherman is "Well, at least he tried."

Try that line out on your girlfriend when you can't get it up. See if it makes her feel any better.

Just remember, to Tank, trading up always works just like it sorta did for Walker. He doesn't remember the blunders.

Or trading up for Mattthews.

[Fritz]

Back to the original point of the thread: the guys on the team getting the biggest paychecks are either not playing or not playing well.