WHAT WOULD YOU DO AT YEAR END ????????

[Bretsky]

Curious where we are at today as our season appears to be nearly fone

[Bretsky]

Curious where everyone stands here. Decide between the following

1. Fire Ted; this camp notes Ted's lack of flexibility is utilizing the three avenues of free agency, trades, and the draft have led to a once elite teams fall to mediocrity in talent
2. Fire MM; he has the talent but has run his course of time and has to a point lost his players....including his star. He was successful; but it's in the teams interest to change
3. We need to blow the ship up; complete rehaul of front office and coaching staff.
4. FIre Dom; he's been given the talent; just does not get best of it. Fix the D and you fix the team
5. Ted has earned the right to stay but it's in everybody's best interest to let him work behind the scenes as a consultant. We've let some great front office talent go and we can't let it happen again. Re assign Ted as a consultant and bring in a new GM, or Eliot Wolf...who will either be Green Bay's GM or leave soon as well. Let the new GM figure out the coaching staff....odds are this means one more year for MM.....and either he succeeds or is fired after they have worked together.

[pbmax]

None of the above.

After careful consideration, Ted and Mike are tied at the hip. I don't want Ted hiring a coach and then retiring in two years. I distrust orgs that force coaching changes on the HC (suggest strongly? OK).

You can't hire a GM and make him live with a with a lame duck HC for one or two years.

You order a review like Maxie suggested, demand that they address the shortcomings and let them run out their contract.

I don't want Hoodie Jr. or Harbaugh who will want final say on the roster and make it even harder to get the GM right. I don't want Payton who has same flaws as McCarthy. I don't want Urban Meyer or Nick Saban.

They will need to hire someone like Jim Bob Cooter and then hope the GM works out as well.

[Bretsky]

So you want to keep both ? IF they do, I see Dom being the fall guy. I see no way in the world changes are ignored

[Bretsky]

And it would not surprise me one bit of Dom is the fall guy along with a couple other misc coaches.

But IMO Ted has failed to keep our talent up to where it was. If he stays and we lose another future GM I will be sick

[Bretsky]

None of the above.

After careful consideration, Ted and Mike are tied at the hip. I don't want Ted hiring a coach and then retiring in two years. I distrust orgs that force coaching changes on the HC (suggest strongly? OK).

You can't hire a GM and make him live with a with a lame duck HC for one or two years.

You order a review like Maxie suggested, demand that they address the shortcomings and let them run out their contract.

I don't want Hoodie Jr. or Harbaugh who will want final say on the roster and make it even harder to get the GM right. I don't want Payton who has same flaws as McCarthy. I don't want Urban Meyer or Nick Saban.

They will need to hire someone like Jim Bob Cooter and then hope the GM works out as well.


In regards to hiring a GM with a lame duck coach...........my belief is I'd take Eliot Wolf over a GM in TT who was once successful but is no longer elite.

Wolf knows MM; maybe he keeps him for a test run......maybe he brings his own guys in. Either way I'd select option 5 with Wolf as my GM

[pbmax]

A. Not in love with Eliot Wolf love

B. Don't want GM hired with strings attached

[Pugger]

I wonder if Dom will be asked to "retire"?

[pbmax]

Dom had a good run in 15 and the start of 16 until injuries took apart his secondary and now his ILB corp.

[Bretsky]

A. Not in love with Eliot Wolf love

B. Don't want GM hired with strings attached


IF their plan isn't Wolf then they should undoubtedly stop nixing his other opportunities outside of the GB Packers

[Bretsky]

Dom had a good run in 15 and the start of 16 until injuries took apart his secondary and now his ILB corp.

I think he's average; always have. Dom in NOT the problem.

Ted has left him with practice squad players. Most of the years we aren't hit with injuries like we have been this year on defense so Ted could hide the crap he was trying to develop on the bottom fifth of the roster. This year, those practice squad players have to match up with starters. It has not turned out well.

[Carolina_Packer]

It would be pretty stunning for the Packers to let one down year dictate decisions. If Murphy sees an erosion over time of confidence in TT's ability to build the team, and desire to do his job, then he may ask TT to step down.

If that happens, I think you have to let a new GM evaluate and decide if they want to keep MM. Start at the top and work your way down. I'm with PB. Don't let TT hire a new HC and then retire in a couple of years. If TT is even considering retirement, I hope he is able to articulate that to Murphy, so the Packers can get on with a succession plan, and THEN decide on the HC question.

[ThunderDan]

I think he's average; always have. Dom in NOT the problem.

Ted has left him with practice squad players. Most of the years we aren't hit with injuries like we have been this year on defense so Ted could hide the crap he was trying to develop on the bottom fifth of the roster. This year, those practice squad players have to match up with starters. It has not turned out well.

Come on. We are starting our 4,5,6 CBs a couple of weeks ago. We are now on CBs 3,4,6. Nickel and dime are now 7,8. Our ILBs are 3 string and practice squad player this week.

There is not enough talent to expect your 6th string CB to be a competent full-time starter.

[ThunderDan]

It would be pretty stunning for the Packers to let one down year dictate decisions. If Murphy sees an erosion over time of confidence in TT's ability to build the team, and desire to do his job, then he may ask TT to step down.

If that happens, I think you have to let a new GM evaluate and decide if they want to keep MM. Start at the top and work your way down. I'm with PB. Don't let TT hire a new HC and then retire in a couple of years. If TT is even considering retirement, I hope he is able to articulate that to Murphy, so the Packers can get on with a succession plan, and THEN decide on the HC question.

+1, I would also say that TT has probably informed Murphy about his feelings going forward. TT is the consummate professional. He may not talk to the media but I don't want that in a GM anyway. Keep your cards close to your vest and your mouth closed.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

It would be pretty stunning for the Packers to let one down year dictate decisions.

Just one down season?

Many a-folks seem to have forgotten that McCarthy and Thompson spent their "Waive Guillotine" card after that infamous 6-10 fiasco.

Anything less than the playoffs this season, the two them deserve the Louis XVI treatment. If playoffs but not Super Bowl, they deserve the Napolean Bonaparte treatment - exile.

[pbmax]

IF their plan isn't Wolf then they should undoubtedly stop nixing his other opportunities outside of the GB Packers

Agree with this. Ted sure seems to like him.

But I also don't like successors being appointed.

[pbmax]

I think he's average; always have. Dom in NOT the problem.

Ted has left him with practice squad players. Most of the years we aren't hit with injuries like we have been this year on defense so Ted could hide the crap he was trying to develop on the bottom fifth of the roster. This year, those practice squad players have to match up with starters. It has not turned out well.

This is a lot of faith in 2 FA players, to turn around the season and NOT get hurt.

[beveaux1]

Come on. We are starting our 4,5,6 CBs a couple of weeks ago. We are now on CBs 3,4,6. Nickel and dime are now 7,8. Our ILBs are 3 string and practice squad player this week.

There is not enough talent to expect your 6th string CB to be a competent full-time starter.

+1 I agree with this. I can't see how the GM or coach could foresee this happening. CB at the start of the season was a position of strength. Injury can't decimate a position then we point to the GM or coach for not having 5th string pro bowlers.

[Fritz]

I think he's average; always have. Dom in NOT the problem.

Ted has left him with practice squad players. Most of the years we aren't hit with injuries like we have been this year on defense so Ted could hide the crap he was trying to develop on the bottom fifth of the roster. This year, those practice squad players have to match up with starters. It has not turned out well.


For what it's worth, in his recent chat McGinn seems to think Ted's not necessarily the problem. His response to a reader question about running back depth (sounds like it came from a Rat): "Fat or not, Eddie Lacy was off to a very good start. Starks is fine as a No. 2, and the decision to send Kuhn out to pasture and promote Ripkowski was wise. The mistake was wasting a roster spot on QB Callahan for 5 weeks. The Packers became infatuated with him, and I could never understand why. There is very good depth at LB. So you think this coaching staff has gotten a lot out of these players this year, huh? You've got to be kidding."

I read this as implying it was MM who was "infatuated" with Callahan (maybe MM thought he could be the Svengali to another hall-of-fame underrated QB? One he actually chose?), and, overtly, that McGinn thinks MM has not gotten much out of the talent at hand.

I don't know what to think, though ThunderDan's posts about the defense playing with third, fourth and sixth stringers in the defensive backfield and linebacking unit does seem sobering when you think about firing people.

[wpony]

I say fire Ted My reasons are I believe he has give MM to much freedom over his assistant
and when we get the new GM he can look over what MM has done and if he needs to be replaced or not its the new GMs job

[texaspackerbacker]

I checked clean house of Ted and Mike - Murphy too if possible. I really don't think it will happen, though.

One down season or a slow downward trend or a fairly high level but just not maximized? I say the third. We have one of the greatest QBs ever to play, and they've frittered away his best years by not surrounding him with max talent and with game planning and play calling that often takes the ball out of his hands and treats him like something other than the superstar he is.

I wouldn't be surprised if they ran the table even with all the problems this year - apparently Aaron Rodgers said approximately that too. That would be great, but it would also undoubtedly save Ted and Mike's jobs, which would not be so great. Hell, lose or win, we're probably stuck with them.

It would be an even bigger damn shame if Capers were scapegoated and fired. His scheming compensates for the mediocre talent he has to deal with.

[Carolina_Packer]

Just one down season?

Many a-folks seem to have forgotten that McCarthy and Thompson spent their "Waive Guillotine" card after that infamous 6-10 fiasco.

Anything less than the playoffs this season, the two them deserve the Louis XVI treatment. If playoffs but not Super Bowl, they deserve the Napolean Bonaparte treatment - exile.

Well, don't forget the 4 win season that preceded the 6 win season. In that context, they were building their way up to a 13 win season in 2007 when TT had fixed the issues of the previous GM, who got the previous coach fired.

[MadtownPacker]

Everyone has just gotten too comfortable with each other. You want the surge of 2009? Gotta clean house and bring in the new blood (GM and coach). Working too long together can fuck things up in any profession. If the seasons ends strong then one more year. If the asskickings continue the ship has to be righted.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Well, don't forget the 4 win season that preceded the 6 win season. In that context, they were building their way up to a 13 win season in 2007 when TT had fixed the issues of the previous GM, who got the previous coach fired.

Yet despite Sherman's many so-called "fuck ups" , the man never gave birth 4-12 or 6-10 as GM. In fact, he got fired after a 10-6 season.

Packers went 6-10 with virtually the same team that got to the NFC Title game the season before, minus the Gunslinger, of course. That's proof of the Polar Bear's incompetence.

[Pugger]

Yet despite Sherman's many so-called "fuck ups" , the man never gave birth 4-12 or 6-10 as GM. In fact, he got fired after a 10-6 season.

Packers went 6-10 with virtually the same team that got to the NFC Title game the season before, minus the Gunslinger, of course. That's proof of the Polar Bear's incompetence.

When did your hero Sherman ever win a damn Super Bowl? How come that bum can't even get a job in at D-3 college program? :lol:

[Anti-Polar Bear]

When did your hero Sherman ever win a damn Super Bowl? How come that bum can't even get a job in at D-3 college program? :lol:

Give Sherman the time Thompson has had and he would've won more than a fluke Super Bowl. Sherman ran the Packers a lot like Belichick runs the Pats.

Btw, DeSean Jackson is still waiting for his Super Bowl 45 ring. Thompson should do the right thing before he gets sent to the guillotine and send D-Jax a damn ring cos without that improbable punt-6, there would never be a ring in the 1st place.

[mmmdk]

Lions and Vikings look solid but ordinary...yet eons better than Packers. "Thanks" Stubby & TT.

[yetisnowman]

Kendricks has made a couple of huge plays in the 2nd half. Glad we drafted JAG Randall instead.....

[yetisnowman]

Oops wrong thread.

[red]

It would be pretty stunning for the Packers to let one down year dictate decisions. If Murphy sees an erosion over time of confidence in TT's ability to build the team, and desire to do his job, then he may ask TT to step down.

If that happens, I think you have to let a new GM evaluate and decide if they want to keep MM. Start at the top and work your way down. I'm with PB. Don't let TT hire a new HC and then retire in a couple of years. If TT is even considering retirement, I hope he is able to articulate that to Murphy, so the Packers can get on with a succession plan, and THEN decide on the HC question.

it has not been just one down year

since the 2015 bye week (week 7) we are 8-12

i think the big question should be, just what in the hell happened during the bye week of 2015. we were 6-0 going into that bye week and last 4 of our 5 games after the bye and have been pretty shitty ever since that break

[Bretsky]

Kendricks has made a couple of huge plays in the 2nd half. Glad we drafted JAG Randall instead.....

Some of us wanted Kendricks with that pick; our ILB's can't carry his jock strap

[BZnDallas]

it has not been just one down year

since the 2015 bye week (week 7) we are 8-12

i think the big question should be, just what in the hell happened during the bye week of 2015. we were 6-0 going into that bye week and last 4 of our 5 games after the bye and have been pretty shitty ever since that break

Not necessarily the bye week, we played both Super Bowl representatives the 2 weeks following the bye. Both defenses knocked Aaron around. And after that Denver game, Aaron hasn't looked the same since.

[channtheman]

Fire Ted and let the new GM decide what to do with MM. I don't see why it's a problem if he keeps MM for a year or two, or fires him immediately.

[pbmax]

Fire Ted and let the new GM decide what to do with MM. I don't see why it's a problem if he keeps MM for a year or two, or fires him immediately.

Delays the inevitable, unless the least likely scenario happens, in which they find a common approach.

[Pugger]

I think most of our issues are on the defensive side of the ball so this is probably where the shake-up will happen this offseason. If 2017 is a repeat Murphy should clean house.

[ThunderDan]

Some of us wanted Kendricks with that pick; our ILB's can't carry his jock strap

That's because you are a Badger homer like me.

Get ready to take one where the sun don't shine with the FBS Championship rankings in a couple of week. Big Ten champs and not in.

[red]

kendricks really would have been nice

[red]

it is pretty amusing that just a few weeks ago the consensus was that our D was doing decent enough, but out offense was very broken and need of fixing

its amazing what one good game on offense will do to make us forget about all the other games

[BZnDallas]

it is pretty amusing that just a few weeks ago the consensus was that our D was doing decent enough, but out offense was very broken and need of fixing

its amazing what one good game on offense will do to make us forget about all the other games

One good game on offense? When? 24,25,26 were the points scored by GB the last 3 games. Do you even read what you type? Oh, you must have meant the 32 scored vs Atl, 4 weeks ago. Just bc people disagree with you, doesn't mean they believe the extreme opposite of your view. Its either they suck or their great. Most people on this forum have opinions in the middle.

[red]

it is pretty amusing that just a few weeks ago the consensus was that our D was doing decent enough, but out offense was very broken and need of fixing

its amazing what one good game on offense will do to make us forget about all the other games

One good game on offense? When? 24,25,26 were the points scored by GB the last 3 games. Do you even read what you type? Oh, you must have meant the 32 scored vs Atl, 4 weeks ago. Just bc people disagree with you, doesn't mean they believe the extreme opposite of your view. Its either they suck or their great. Most people on this forum have opinions in the middle.

not from what i see

you have realists, and you have sheep

i also have a brain and a memory, and an attention span that last more then a week. i can remember what we were bitching about up till a month ago. we were talking baout how we have no running game, this week, how our wr's suck just last week, and some of us were talking about just how off our QB is compared to usual last week

but this is the new america, we don't need to use our fucking brains anymore, smart people are just uppity assholes anyways

[BZnDallas]

[QUOTE=BZnDallas;906868]

not from what i see

you have realists, and you have sheep

i also have a brain and a memory, and an attention span that last more then a week. i can remember what we were bitching about up till a month ago. we were talking baout how we have no running game, this week, how our wr's suck just last week, and some of us were talking about just how off our QB is compared to usual last week

but this is the new america, we don't need to use our fucking brains anymore, smart people are just uppity assholes anyways

Thats all filler blah blah... I'd like to hear more about your one week offensive output making people forget... Was that the 24 point game? The 25 point game? Or the 26 point game?

[red]

actually, i think we are in agreement the the offense still sucks and needs fixing

the one game i tolk about was the last one where our qb finally looked like a decent nfl qb, and at times out receivers could get open, and we actually had a TE

and because of that, we are seeing people talk about capers as a scapegoat, while theres no mention of how the rest of the team and staff still suck

[BZnDallas]

Look, i'm not saying the offense is fixed, by any means. But if you can't see the reason for no running game is not having running backs. Sorry, thats not being a sheep. MM needs new, refreshing plays. Or to call them at different moments in the game. He's become stale at times. Usually in the beginning of games. Its possible to be critical and optimistic at the same time.

[BZnDallas]

actually, i think we are in agreement the the offense still sucks and needs fixing

the one game i tolk about was the last one where our qb finally looked like a decent nfl qb, and at times out receivers could get open, and we actually had a TE

and because of that, we are seeing people talk about capers as a scapegoat, while theres no mention of how the rest of the team and staff still suck

I gotta be honest, I've been tired of Capers long before this season. So although I understand the injury issue at DB and now ILB, I'm ready for him to retire. However, this year has brought me over to the get rid of TT side of the argument. When you have players signing with other teams saying they wanted to play for you and were waiting for a call, and you just flat out don't? I have issue with that. He didn't do his job. So if you get rid of TT, I believe the new GM gets to decide if MM stays. I believe Elliot Wolf keep him to try and keep the cohesion of the team together. Then Elliot combines his father use of FA with TTs way of draft and develop and I hope you have the makings of a dynasty. HAHA

[pbmax]

There is a very good argument that Capers system is not ideal for a draft and development team.

So a healthy Defense tends to get better for him (2015) and an injured one gets worse quickly (this year and every other year except 2009 and 2010). They also have had terrible trouble with 3rd downs forever. Much of this is pass rush related. You want an area that Ted or a new guy could improve over the work of the last 12years? Pass rushers.

I can see calling for a change here, but it needs to be McCarthy's call.

Much more problematic is where to lay the blame for the offenses woes the last 22 games. Rodgers is playing better but they are still not efficient. In a sense, Cook is a bailout because his physical dimensions mask the still overly ISO route dependent offensive scheme.