JS----TOUGH DECISION WITH TTT/WOLF...............

[Bretsky]

apparently they read packerrat info.......:)

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2016/11/24/packers-face-tough-call-thompson-wolf/94347888/

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Silverstein: Even if the Packers find a way to turn things around this season, it does not change the fact the front office needs to modernize its approach to acquiring talent. It seems unlikely that Thompson is capable of doing that...

+1

[pbmax]

Among them, Denver (Peyton Manning, Aqib Talib), New England (LaGarrette Blount, Darrelle Revis), Seattle (Michael Bennett, Percy Harvin), Baltimore (Matt Birk, Anquan Boldin), the New York Giants (Chris Canty, Antrell Rolle) and Green Bay (Charles Woodson, Ryan Pickett) all received huge lifts from players not acquired through the draft.

I don't mind the critique, but at least be consistent and logical.

1. Do ALL FA acquisitions end in the Super Bowl? If not, then listing the ones that work isn't an argument, its just complaining.

2. Jared Cook and Julius Peppers.

Now drop this part of the idiotic critique.

[Patler]

I don't mind the critique, but at least be consistent and logical.

1. Do ALL FA acquisitions end in the Super Bowl? If not, then listing the ones that work isn't an argument, its just complaining.

2. Jared Cook and Julius Peppers.

Now drop this part of the idiotic critique.

Exactly. The argument that some how players like that are not really free agents is silly.

[pbmax]

Exactly. The argument that some how players like that are not really free agents is silly.

So is the idea that they must be bargain basement deals for Thompson to act. Cook isn't cheap like a waiver pickup (he had choices) and Peppers signed a big deal.

Look at it this way; he has probably overpaid some of his own players like Matthews and Cobb. But either overpay them, or overpay FAs, no one is getting away with being a cheap playoff team for long. The whole FA complaint comes down to about one player every three years.

Also dumb: veteran leadership missing. Sportswriters never get this right.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I don't mind the critique, but at least be consistent and logical.

1. Do ALL FA acquisitions end in the Super Bowl? If not, then listing the ones that work isn't an argument, its just complaining.

2. Jared Cook and Julius Peppers.

Now drop this part of the idiotic critique.

Your reading comprehension looks like it is deteriorating.

Silverstien isn't arguing that signing free agents = Super Bowl. Instead, he's pointing out that utilizing ALL aspects of the game - trades, free agency, draft -competently is the best way to run a modern day NFL team.

Belichick utilizes ALL aspects of the game -competently (and frequently), must I add. Belichick has annihilated and debunked draft-and-develop theory.

Oh fie. Thompson supporters still believe the earth is flat.


The teams that have won Super Bowls over the past decade, including his own, have used free agency, the draft and in some cases trades to stock their rosters...Schneider has made Wolf look like a nickel slots player with all the chances he’s taken in building a Super Bowl-contending roster in Seattle...

[pbmax]

Your reading comprehension looks like it is deteriorating.

Silverstien isn't arguing that signing free agents = Super Bowl. Instead, he's pointing out that utilizing ALL aspects of the game - trades, free agency, draft -competently is the best way to run a modern day NFL team.

Belichick utilizes ALL aspects of the game -competently, must I add. Belichick has annihilated and debunked draft-and-develop theory.

Oh fie. Thompson supporters still believe the earth is flat.

Thompson has used FA. You and Spoon and arguing to use it more. Still waiting for the evidence that it works better the more you use it.

Ask Bretsky about Hoody Genius' draft track record.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Thompson has used FA. You and Spoon and arguing to use it more. Still waiting for the evidence that it works better the more you use it.

Ask Bretsky about Hoody Genius' draft track record.

Gotta use FA and trades when the opportunity arises and the situation calls for such and such. Hibernating in a closet does nothing to help your team.

Belichick needed a shutdown corner, so he acquired Revis Island - who gives a fuck that the Island ain't gonna be around long? Gronk's the best TE in the league; NE still traded for Bennett. Ole Bill stole Randy Moss away from Thompson, proving that he's competent and the Polar Bear ain't. Such and such.

Wolf signed Reggie White to the equivalent of a $100M contract today; still acquired Dotson and Jones. Traded a 1st for some hillbilly third string QB. Traded a 2 to rent a TE for 1.5 seasons, and Jackson made it clear he'd rather retire than play in dull and dark Green Bay. When injuries struck and the other receivers on the team were playing like Jarrett Boykins, Wolf signed Rison, a so-called locker room cancer. Such and such.

Injuries have struck the corner, RB and ILB positions this season, and Thompson hasn't done a fucking thing. Richard Rodgers was more fruitless than an apple tree on the north pole, Vernon Davis was available - Polar Bear simply crossed his fingers and hoped Dick Rod could somehow morph into an average player. Wasted away two years of Claymakers' prime with his ability to acquire a bona fide ILB. Beast Mode should've been a Packer. Ditto, Gonzalez and Moss. Such and such.

Ted Thompson is the mother of incompetent.

[gbgary]

Thompson has used FA.

as a hole plugger mostly (replace a body with a body). not as a weapon. he's uses it in a reactionary manner. he's not proactive.

[pbmax]

as a hole plugger mostly (replace a body with a body). not as a weapon. he's uses it in a reactionary manner. he's not proactive.

I can see this with Cook. Not the same with Guion or Peppers.

[Patler]

The aspect about free agency that I would like to see one of the writers analyze is this:

Do those teams that acquire more FAs also tend to lose more of their own FAs? Managing free agency isn't only about bringing in players from other teams, it is also about keeping your own free agents.

I started a thread at the end of last season in which I said TT would sign at least one starting FA, based on his history. People say he doesn't use FA, but the reality is that about every other year he signs at least one to be a starter.

[yetisnowman]

I can see this with Cook. Not the same with Guion or Peppers.

Guion is just a guy. I'll never understand how TT apologists hold up Guion as an example of an impact FA player. What you see with the 2016 Packers, is that when you refuse to add more than one relevant FA every 6 years , AND you have 3 or 4 mediocre to poor drafts in a row, you end up with a pretty shitty team. Especially with a couple injuries. And I'm not convinced that this is a contending team, even when healthy. That's largely a personnel issue.

[pbmax]

Guion is just a guy. I'll never understand how TT apologists hold up Guion as an example of an impact FA player. What you see with the 2016 Packers, is that when you refuse to add more than one relevant FA every 6 years , AND you have 3 or 4 mediocre to poor drafts in a row, you end up with a pretty shitty team. Especially with a couple injuries. And I'm not convinced that this is a contending team, even when healthy. That's largely a personnel issue.

They were a contending team last year and 2014. They SHOULD have been in the Super Bowl in 2014. Coaching, poor decisions by players and bad luck cost them that spot. Wasn't a personnel issue then and that was AFTER two actual poor drafts. It was also with a hobbled QB. The Defense had good enough personnel to stop the Cardinals high flying offense IN Arizona in the playoffs.

The failure again was a piss poor offense that could not support its defense on the road without two hail marks. That offense was hobbled by injuries at WR and LT. And a coach who had not adjusted his game plan well after game 6.

[esoxx]

Thompson has been asleep at the wheel for too long. He deserves to be called out. No reason you have to be one of the youngest teams in the league EVERY year either.

[red]

the other problem with draft and develop is that it keeps players on the team that just shouldn't be in the nfl, they're there because we have to have someone

are you telling me that there isn't a single free agent tackle or guard out there on the scrap heap that isn't better then don barclay? the guy should be nowhere near an nfl team at this point

a few years back when we needed a safety badly, what did we do? we waited until one was in the right spot for us in the draft, 2 or 3 years after we lost collins. many were available during free agency

yes, we did sign cook this year. after not doing anything at the position for a couple years, other then throwing failed draft picks at it

and when we do bring in free agents for a visit, we just let them walk out the door. other teams will call in bomb threats to keep the player their until he signs. why would you ever give a player a number he can go waive in other teams faces?

to me, it seems like, when we have a need, TT would rather spend 2 or 3 years trying to find that need in the draft, rather then sign a free agent. then if 2 or 3 years go by and he's failed, he might go sign a free agent. to me that doesn't work when you're wasting you prime years of your QB's career trying to find decent enough players in the draft. not to mention those players will then take years to develop, if they ever do

[gbgary]

I can see this with Cook. Not the same with Guion or Peppers.

there's a lot of hole plugging here:

reviewing-the-packers-free-agent-history-under-gm-ted-thompson (http://www.espn.com/blog/green-bay-packers/post/_/id/19197/reviewing-the-packers-free-agent-history-under-gm-ted-thompson)

[gbgary]

the other problem with draft and develop is that it keeps players on the team that just shouldn't be in the nfl, they're there because we have to have someone

are you telling me that there isn't a single free agent tackle or guard out there on the scrap heap that isn't better then don barclay? the guy should be nowhere near an nfl team at this point...

aaaaand...when we do develop a guy tt let's him walk when he becomes a free agent. experience goes out the door...bring in the rookie/back-up. it's counter productive.

[red]

aaaaand...when we do develop a guy tt let's him walk when he becomes a free agent. experience goes out the door...bring in the rookie/back-up. it's counter productive.

anyone know who is leading the NFL in INT's this year?

oh but he signed for 5 million a year, that would cut into the 10 million in cap space we have

[pbmax]

are you telling me that there isn't a single free agent tackle or guard out there on the scrap heap that isn't better then don barclay? the guy should be nowhere near an nfl team at this point


You mean like Jake Long?

C'mon, lets see the list of waiver level talent better than roster talent currently available.

Fans on a losing streak consistently devalue their own players and think everyone else is better despite the fact that they cannot find employment.

Spriggs should get the job, but McCarthy likes people who have played it before on the O line.

[pbmax]

aaaaand...when we do develop a guy tt let's him walk when he becomes a free agent. experience goes out the door...bring in the rookie/back-up. it's counter productive.

His record of keeping his own is very good. he has picked wisely in many cases.

Hayward and House might be the first clear miss in a while. And it took a career ender to Shields and a Randall injury to make it obvious.

[pbmax]

as a hole plugger mostly (replace a body with a body). not as a weapon. he's uses it in a reactionary manner. he's not proactive.

Signing a FA where there isn't a hole seems odd, unless its a clear upgrade (Peppers, Cook).

Can you give me an example of signing a weapon versus hole filling?

[pbmax]

Belichick needed a shutdown corner, so he acquired Revis Island - who gives a fuck that the Island ain't gonna be around long? Gronk's the best TE in the league; NE still traded for Bennett. Ole Bill stole Randy Moss away from Thompson, proving that he's competent and the Polar Bear ain't. Such and such.

1. Revis was a fine signing.

2. They traded for Bennett to work along with Gronk because they run a 2 TE offense. Packers signed Cook. The difference here is an injured ankle.

3. How many Super Bowl wins did ol' Randy win with the Patriots?

[pbmax]

All of this hyperventilating panic is about injuries. I hope none of you are emergency responders or I would expect you to drive your vehicle off a cliff the first time you don't get to a patient in time.

The problems beyond that, such as they are, are a matter of coaching.

The only question here about the GM is how long does Thompson plan on staying. Because I am not sure its long enough that he will hold McCarthy's job over his head to demand a review and changes about things that are actually not working. He can't do what he did after 2014 again.

[Bretsky]

1. Revis was a fine signing.

2. They traded for Bennett to work along with Gronk because they run a 2 TE offense. Packers signed Cook. The difference here is an injured ankle.

3. How many Super Bowl wins did ol' Randy win with the Patriots?


You really want to build an argument that Hoody doesn't take the gambles to push his team over the top with a combo of trades, free agent signings, and draft picks ? I don't think he's a good drafter at all but like Elway, he attempts to utilize all avenues to improve his team and there is often veteran leadership at the bottom of the roster who could play if needed instead of practice squad material.

If I ever go into politics , I'd pay you serious change to be my campaign manager.

[Bretsky]

All of this hyperventilating panic is about injuries. I hope none of you are emergency responders or I would expect you to drive your vehicle off a cliff the first time you don't get to a patient in time.

The problems beyond that, such as they are, are a matter of coaching.

The only question here about the GM is how long does Thompson plan on staying. Because I am not sure its long enough that he will hold McCarthy's job over his head to demand a review and changes about things that are actually not working. He can't do what he did after 2014 again.


Ted's time is limited at best .....or he walks away or is Melvanized (my preference) after this year

I don't think Ted lets go of MM if he stays and given his time left he probably should not

I have a feeling Dom is the Goat

[Bretsky]

anyone know who is leading the NFL in INT's this year?

oh but he signed for 5 million a year, that would cut into the 10 million in cap space we have

I'm too lazy to look it up; who the heck is it ?

[red]

I'm too lazy to look it up; who the heck is it ?

casey hayward

we needed to make roster room for all the young guys we drafted and picked up as UDFA

pff has him as the 8th best cb in the game right now, and his new team moved him out of the slot

its amazing what getting away from the packers medical staff can do for a guy. if he had signed with us he would probably still have that bad hamstring, or ankle or whatever the hell it was

[pbmax]

You really want to build an argument that Hoody doesn't take the gambles to push his team over the top with a combo of trades, free agent signings, and draft picks ? I don't think he's a good drafter at all but like Elway, he attempts to utilize all avenues to improve his team and there is often veteran leadership at the bottom of the roster who could play if needed instead of practice squad material.

If I ever go into politics , I'd pay you serious change to be my campaign manager.

Where did I argue that Hoody didn't take chances? I am talking about results.

Thompson v Belichick, I like my chances. McCarthy v. Belichick is close except when you need to change the plan and adjust and then Bill pulls away.

Funny you made that comment about politics, because Tank's last submission was buzz word central. :)

[pbmax]

Let's also remember that the author of this piece, and the other writers of JSO/GBPG were predicting Packers super bowl.

Only McGinn has it right that the coach shares more blame than the GM. Dougherty has swallowed the fire the GM kool aid.

He's also trying to have it both ways: http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/mcginn/2016/11/26/mcginn-reids-fate-could-await-mccarthy/94427862/

Vegas also had them as favorites in the NFC.

[Patler]

This is a damning statement from one of McGinns infamous "executives in personnel":



“The team is obviously in a funk and it doesn’t look as if they can get out of it,” an executive in personnel said after watching the Packers’ 42-24 loss last Sunday night in Washington. “They have players, but the coaches cannot seem to get them to play.

“When a player the caliber of (Clay) Matthews is rendered useless, it shows that there is no urgency whatsoever on the team. The fact is amazing because of the talent on the team. That comes back to coaching.”

[Rastak]

This is a damning statement from one of McGinns infamous "executives in personnel":

He has been banged up. Per PFF here is the Packers edge rushers/defenders and how they rank league wide.

Rank Player
9 Nick Perry
25 Julius Peppers
66 Datone Jones
101 Clay Matthews

[Bretsky]

Where did I argue that Hoody didn't take chances? I am talking about results.

Thompson v Belichick, I like my chances. McCarthy v. Belichick is close except when you need to change the plan and adjust and then Bill pulls away.

Funny you made that comment about politics, because Tank's last submission was buzz word central. :)


I'll call a draw at GM because BB is jus ok there...ditt for TTT

MM is not on the same planet as Hoody Genius as a Head Coach and Hoody Genius staff is far superior as well

BTW, everybody targets McGinn and Silverstein as the TT critics. If you listened to ESPN 1070 nearly all of the writers take potshots as TTT for his stubbornness and not utilizing all 3 avenues as well as he should. Most think MM is a decent head coach. I think he is as well

I'm not sure how strong our coaching staff is though.

[pbmax]

They all take potshots at Thompson for lack of enthusiasm for FA, despite ample evidence his system works.

What they don't seem to have an answer for, because they fear X and Os, is Rodgers and McCarthy's year plus offensive slump.

Injuries on defense and the resulting slump have simply let them change the subject and speculate wildly on both (and/or capers) being asked to leave.

Mcgann, at least, was close to the mark on his McCarthy critique earlier this week.

[gbgary]

Signing a FA where there isn't a hole seems odd, unless its a clear upgrade (Peppers, Cook).

Can you give me an example of signing a weapon versus hole filling?

that's my point. he should be trying to make the team better. in too many cases it's treading water or worse in the name of cap money that we don't use. we doesn't have a win-now philosophy. it's about the future that never gets here. there's trading also. why can't HE be the one making calls instead of hoody?

as for an example of a weapon signing look around the league and see what FA's from the last two years or so are making a positive impact.

[pbmax]

that's my point. he should be trying to make the team better. in too many cases it's treading water or worse in the name of cap money that we don't use. we doesn't have a win-now philosophy. it's about the future that never gets here. there's trading also. why can't HE be the one making calls instead of hoody?

as for an example of a weapon signing look around the league and see what FA's from the last two years or so are making a positive impact.

There are as many misses as hits on FA making an impact. Not sure if anyone has demonstrated a consistently higher hit rate.

Do you just want to max out the cap each year and sign as many as possible?

[gbgary]

There are as many misses as hits on FA making an impact. Not sure if anyone has demonstrated a consistently higher hit rate.

Do you just want to max out the cap each year and sign as many as possible?

i think in our case you do whatever you have to get in the sb. it's not like dallas the 15 years ago when realistically they had no chance and jones threw caution to the wind and got themselves into cap trouble for 10 years. 6 years ago we won a sb, then went 15-1, been to the nfc championship recently. instead of building on that we've taken steps backward in the name of cap room. cook is the only upgrade to the offense and the d has less experience and no depth...but we have plenty of cap room...again.

[Rutnstrut]

"are you telling me that there isn't a single free agent tackle or guard out there on the scrap heap that isn't better then don barclay? the guy should be nowhere near an nfl team at this point"

They shouldn't NEED a scrap heap guard. They had Sitton and fucked that up as well.

[Patler]

i think in our case you do whatever you have to get in the sb. it's not like dallas the 15 years ago when realistically they had no chance and jones threw caution to the wind and got themselves into cap trouble for 10 years. 6 years ago we won a sb, then went 15-1, been to the nfc championship recently. instead of building on that we've taken steps backward in the name of cap room. cook is the only upgrade to the offense and the d has less experience and no depth...but we have plenty of cap room...again.

Since the SB, Green Bay has spent every dollar of their salary caps, except for $8.7 million, and the year isn't done. Where is all this money they have saved?

[pbmax]

i think in our case you do whatever you have to get in the sb. it's not like dallas the 15 years ago when realistically they had no chance and jones threw caution to the wind and got themselves into cap trouble for 10 years. 6 years ago we won a sb, then went 15-1, been to the nfc championship recently. instead of building on that we've taken steps backward in the name of cap room. cook is the only upgrade to the offense and the d has less experience and no depth...but we have plenty of cap room...again.

And there are guys they want to sign for the long term as well. With between 8-9 million in room, you can do an extension rather than a FA deal and get them at good prices.

[Patler]

"are you telling me that there isn't a single free agent tackle or guard out there on the scrap heap that isn't better then don barclay? the guy should be nowhere near an nfl team at this point"

They shouldn't NEED a scrap heap guard. They had Sitton and fucked that up as well.

You mean the Josh Sitton who is missing his third game this season for the Bears, and who has practiced little even the weeks he did play?

[Rutnstrut]

You mean the Josh Sitton who is missing his third game this season for the Bears, and who has practiced little even the weeks he did play?

You can't say for sure that he would have been hurt in GB. Can't say he wouldn't, but chances are he plays hurt had the team not screwed him over. He's just riding out his career in shitty Chicago.

[Patler]

You can't say for sure that he would have been hurt in GB. Can't say he wouldn't, but chances are he plays hurt had the team not screwed him over. He's just riding out his career in shitty Chicago.

No, but he was held together with string and duct tape the last few years as it was, so thinking that something would have come up that couldn't be "played through" isn't much of a stretch. He himself said he needed to practice more than he has been the last few years, and that probably wouldn't have happened either. He is an old lineman that is breaking down.