Fans need to let the young players mature

[Patler]

Fans complain that HHCD isn't another Nick Collins and Davante Adams isn't another Jordy Nelson, but how far off are they? HHCD already has more interceptions and more tackles than Collins had his first three years. Adams already has a lot more receptions for more yards and more TDs than Nelson had his first three years. Each Collins and Nelson had breakout seasons their 4th years.

[Pugger]

HHCD isn't lighting the league on fire this because he and Brunett are compensating for our poor corners. Adams isn't as fast as Jordy was but he is playing much better this year compared to last.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Fans complain that HHCD isn't another Nick Collins and Davante Adams isn't another Jordy Nelson, but how far off are they? HHCD already has more interceptions and more tackles than Collins had his first three years. Adams already has a lot more receptions for more yards and more TDs than Nelson had his first three years. Each Collins and Nelson had breakout seasons their 4th years.

Who in Hades compared Clinton-Dix to Collins? Tony O'Day? Only an idiot would make such a doltish comparison. Collins was a fast, all over the place, playmaking "free" saftey. Dix resembles the great "Erin" Rouse more than Collins. Like Rouse, Dix's a "looks like Tarzen, plays like Jane" saftey. Dix's not fast enough to play the "free." Move him to the "strong" and pray to Hades he balls better than the mediocre Burnett. Doubt it since, despite his size, Dix's soft.

Nelson, first 3 seasons, played with Jennings, Jones, Driver and J-Mike. He was "targeted" less than Adams, hence the inferior stats.

[gbgary]

i don't have a problem with any of the players mentioned. i do have a problem with standing pat if an upgrade is available...for ANYONE!

[pbmax]

Who in Hades compared Clinton-Dix to Collins? Tony O'Day? Only an idiot would make such a doltish comparison. Collins was a fast, all over the place, playmaking "free" saftey.

He was none of those things in his first three years. He was slow to react and late to get there.



Dix resembles the great "Erin" Rouse more than Collins. Like Rouse, Dix's a "looks like Tarzen, plays like Jane" saftey.

And now I question your soundness of memory.

[Patler]

Who in Hades compared Clinton-Dix to Collins? Tony O'Day? Only an idiot would make such a doltish comparison. Collins was a fast, all over the place, playmaking "free" saftey. Dix resembles the great "Erin" Rouse more than Collins. Like Rouse, Dix's a "looks like Tarzen, plays like Jane" saftey. Dix's not fast enough to play the "free." Move him to the "strong" and pray to Hades he balls better than the mediocre Burnett. Doubt it since, despite his size, Dix's soft.

Nelson, first 3 seasons, played with Jennings, Jones, Driver and J-Mike. He was "targeted" less than Adams, hence the inferior stats.

My point was that a lot of players need four years to become the player they can be, and it doesn't matter if they are similar to or very different than other players. What matters is if they are productive in their own way.

Collins started from day 1 and may have been worse his third season than either his first or second. At times he looked totally lost and many feared the NFL was too much for him.

Jermichael Finley had little impact on Nelson's first three years. Finley rarely saw the field in '08 and played just 5 games in 2010.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

He was none of those things in his first three years. He was slow to react and late to get there.

And now I question your soundness of memory.

I understand Collins wasn't All-Pro his first three seasons, and he played so terribly at one point that the poster NickCollins changed his screenname to JustinHarrell in disgust and embarrassment, but man, Collins was fast - something Dix isn't.

Go rewatch that play in which Dix bounced off Luck in the clutch, as if he was the 1-2-3 Kid bouncing off Yokozuna. Looks like Tarzen, plays like Jane - or Rouse.

[pbmax]

I understand Collins wasn't All-Pro his first three seasons, and he played so terribly at one point that the poster NickCollins changed his screenname to JustinHarrell in disgust and embarrassment, but man, Collins was fast - something Dix isn't.

Go rewatch that play in which Dix bounced off Luck in the clutch, as if he was the 1-2-3 Kid bouncing off Yokozuna. Looks like Tarzen, plays like Jane - or Rouse.

You need to be Nick Perry size to not bounce off Luck. Dix's problem was angle, he should have reset his feet, jumped on him and hung on.

[Zool]

Hey Tank, how is 2009 treating you? You getting close to the 2010s yet? It's a fun decade, you should come try it out.

[texaspackerbacker]

The first post and most of the rest of the thread kinda illustrates a disturbing trend. Rather than drafting and developing more athletic high potential guys like Collins, we are going after "finished products" like Dix who basically aren't gonna get much better. The same is true of Adams, although I don't recall if Nelson was already high level in college or not. Ryan and Martinez are the same thing - already developed/not much higher ceiling. Randall the same, although Rollins is more of a project.

This is all related to Ted's distaste for bringing in veteran free agents. If they are gonna "let the young players mature" without a serious drop off in quality, they need somebody good enough to start ahead of those young players.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

My point was that a lot of players need four years to become the player they can be, and it doesn't matter if they are similar to or very different than other players. What matters is if they are productive in their own way.

Collins started from day 1 and may have been worse his third season than either his first or second. At times he looked totally lost and many feared the NFL was too much for him.

Jermichael Finley had little impact on Nelson's first three years. Finley rarely saw the field in '08 and played just 5 games in 2010.

Still, I don't think anyone other than O'Day said Dix was gonna be the next Collins. Just look at their combine 40s and you'll see that that's a foregone conclusion. I thought Dix was a poor man's Sean Taylor when he got drafted. I was wrong - too slow. He's a rich man's Rouse.

Regardless of whether J-Mike made an impact or not, Nelson was still targeted less in his 1st three seasons than Adams in his first 3. Nelson was mostly the #4 receiver those three years, even got into McCarthy's doghouse for not chasing after a bomb. Adams was the #2 guy last season and he produced like Ruvell Martin.

Little known fact: Martin attended the same school as future Pack great Jeff Janis - Saginaw Valley State.

[Maxie the Taxi]

If it's true that "a lot of players need four years to become the player they can be," what does that say about TT's system of draft and develop, especially in light of the fact that the average career of a player in the modern NFL is somewhere between 3.3 and 6 years? By the time the average draftee lives up to his potential it's time for him to retire.

These facts are especially significant if a team drafts close to last every year. Presumably these players selected later are less talented and would need the full four years to reach the point where they can fully contribute. It's the difference between drafting an Erik Kendricks and a Jake Ryan. Kendricks is able to contribute immediately and significantly in his first four years. Ryan won't be able to contribute fully for four years.

Plus, the better the talent (i.e., a blue chip, high draft choice rookie), it makes sense that the longer his NFL career will be.

If you look at our roster in light of the above, it's kind of apparent what's going on. The blue chippers we draft, like Clay, Jennings, Nelson, Finley, Raji, Daniels, Arod etc. produce almost immediately, but their windows are open only so long and their success results the team drafting even lower where we get players who have to play three or four years before their window even opens...and then the window starts closing almost immediately.

The draft and develop system would seem to require perfect timing for all the players talents to gel or peak at about the same time to produce a really good championship team. Without a serious entry into the FA market each season to plug the holes in the draft and develop system, you wind up with talent that is either always turning over or always in development. The end result? Teams that are good but rarely ever great.

[Patler]

Go rewatch that play in which Dix bounced off Luck in the clutch, as if he was the 1-2-3 Kid bouncing off Yokozuna. Looks like Tarzen, plays like Jane - or Rouse.

You do realize that Luck has about 4" and 35 pounds on Dix, don't you? Lots of guys bigger than Dix have failed to get Luck down, too.

We see safeties fail to make that play on big or quick QBs quite often. They can't hit too high, or it's a penalty. They can't hit too low either. They can't hit straight on for fear of their helmet sliding up and making any contact near the QB's head. If they hit too hard, something is normally called. In short, they get there then have to gear down and almost limit themselves to an arm tackle, or risk being penalized.

[hoosier]

If it's true that "a lot of players need four years to become the player they can be," what does that say about TT's system of draft and develop, especially in light of the fact that the average career of a player in the modern NFL is somewhere between 3.3 and 6 years? By the time the average draftee lives up to his potential it's time for him to retire.

These facts are especially significant if a team drafts close to last every year. Presumably these players selected later are less talented and would need the full four years to reach the point where they can fully contribute. It's the difference between drafting an Erik Kendricks and a Jake Ryan. Kendricks is able to contribute immediately and significantly in his first four years. Ryan won't be able to contribute fully for four years.

Plus, the better the talent (i.e., a blue chip, high draft choice rookie), it makes sense that the longer his NFL career will be.

If you look at our roster in light of the above, it's kind of apparent what's going on. The blue chippers we draft, like Clay, Jennings, Nelson, Finley, Raji, Daniels, Arod etc. produce almost immediately, but their windows are open only so long and their success results the team drafting even lower where we get players who have to play three or four years before their window even opens...and then the window starts closing almost immediately.

The draft and develop system would seem to require perfect timing for all the players talents to gel or peak at about the same time to produce a really good championship team. Without a serious entry into the FA market each season to plug the holes in the draft and develop system, you wind up with talent that is either always turning over or always in development. The end result? Teams that are good but rarely ever great.

108-61 since 2006. Where do you suppose that ranks among NFL teams? I would guess 2nd behind NE and ahead of Pittsburgh. You can say they are rarely ever great but to that I have two responses: isn't that true of all teams (with the notable exception of New England under Belichick)? And would you really trade one year of greatness, assuming you could get it, for consistently being in the hunt?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

This is all related to Ted's distaste for bringing in veteran free agents. If they are gonna "let the young players mature" without a serious drop off in quality, they need somebody good enough to start ahead of those young players.

Best post in this thread thus far - by a wide margin over Zool's post about me still living in 2009. :)

Tex, I reckon you know a lot about cyberspace? You ever come across anything like time travel?

[Patler]

I
The draft and develop system would seem to require perfect timing for all the players talents to gel or peak at about the same time to produce a really good championship team. Without a serious entry into the FA market each season to plug the holes in the draft and develop system, you wind up with talent that is either always turning over or always in development. The end result? Teams that are good but rarely ever great.

In the NFL, that is very true for everyone. It requires players like Bulaga in 2010 contributing more than expected, and others being as good as they ever have been or will be. As good as Belichik is, how many Super Bowls has he won during the years TT has been in GB?

I think GB has been unusually impacted by career ending injuries. All teams have some, but GB seems to have had more than it's fair share, and to significant players too. How much better would this team have been with Collins and Finley the past 6 years, and with them and Shields this year?

[Maxie the Taxi]

108-61 since 2006. Where do you suppose that ranks among NFL teams? I would guess 2nd behind NE and ahead of Pittsburgh. You can say they are rarely ever great but to that I have two responses: isn't that true of all teams (with the notable exception of New England under Belichick)? And would you really trade one year of greatness, assuming you could get it, for consistently being in the hunt?To reduce what I wrote to those extremes is quite a trick. I think with a smart draft system AND a smart FA system you could always be in the hunt but you'd have a better chance of fielding a great team more often.

[Maxie the Taxi]

In the NFL, that is very true for everyone. It requires players like Bulaga in 2010 contributing more than expected, and others being as good as they ever have been or will be. As good as Belichik is, how many Super Bowls has he won during the years TT has been in GB?

I think GB has been unusually impacted by career ending injuries. All teams have some, but GB seems to have had more than it's fair share, and to significant players too. How much better would this team have been with Collins and Finley the past 6 years, and with them and Shields this year?All true, but I would guess injuries ARE the main reason for the short player careers on average. A draft and develop team suffering an injury to a key player has to theoretically wait four years to replace this player via the draft. A team willing to dip into the FA market can replace an injured player in one off-season. No?

[Freak Out]

Fans complain that HHCD isn't another Nick Collins and Davante Adams isn't another Jordy Nelson, but how far off are they? HHCD already has more interceptions and more tackles than Collins had his first three years. Adams already has a lot more receptions for more yards and more TDs than Nelson had his first three years. Each Collins and Nelson had breakout seasons their 4th years.

Couldn't agree more Snoop. That said there needs to be some players on the roster now that can help with that transition.

[red]

collins came from a tiny division 2 school playing against high school level talent

haha played from the closest thing you can get to a pro team in college, and he played against the best

i would expect a long learning curve from a small school guy (like driver, or janis), haha should be pro ready and up to speed from day one

the problem with adams is that he looked good as a rookie, had tons of hype for year 2, and flopped. he regressed after his first year

[Patler]

All true, but I would guess injuries ARE the main reason for the short player careers on average. A draft and develop team suffering an injury to a key player has to theoretically wait four years to replace this player via the draft. A team willing to dip into the FA market can replace an injured player in one off-season. No?

Like signing Jared Cook?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

You do realize that Luck has about 4" and 35 pounds on Dix, don't you? Lots of guys bigger than Dix have failed to get Luck down, too.

We see safeties fail to make that play on big or quick QBs quite often. They can't hit too high, or it's a penalty. They can't hit too low either. They can't hit straight on for fear of their helmet sliding up and making any contact near the QB's head. If they hit too hard, something is normally called. In short, they get there then have to gear down and almost limit themselves to an arm tackle, or risk being penalized.

Well then, make the goddamn arm tackle!

I ain't a physicist, but there's a thing called momentum. If X weighs 245lbs and Y weighs 208 lbs and X is near stationary and Y is dashing toward X unblocked at a high velocity, momentum says upon impact Y will knock the shit out of X, unless of course, Y fucks up.

That fuck up was utterly inexcusable. Dix is, what, 6'1 208 lbs? Tyrion Lannister could've made that play. Dix choked in the clutch, plain and simple.

[red]

Like signing Jared Cook?

yup, to replace a guy we lost in 2013

[Maxie the Taxi]

Like signing Jared Cook?Yup. I'm arguing they should do more of that and sooner. How long has Finley been gone? How many years have we been trying to replace him with a draftee? Same with Tremontana. Same with Jennings? Same with ILB. Now, if Shields and Lacy aren't coming back, do we draft a couple of kids and wait four years? Or do we sign a vet?

[red]

That fuck up was utterly inexcusable. Dix is, what, 6'1 208 lbs?

that was his combine weight

i'd bet he's closer to 225. he's a pretty solidly built dude these days

[Patler]

collins came from a tiny division 2 school playing against high school level talent

haha played from the closest thing you can get to a pro team in college, and he played against the best

i would expect a long learning curve from a small school guy (like driver, or janis), haha should be pro ready and up to speed from day one

the problem with adams is that he looked good as a rookie, had tons of hype for year 2, and flopped. he regressed after his first year

No rookie is ready from day one to be all they will be. Personally, I think HHCD has been better than Collins was his first three season, in fact I think he has been a fair amount better. That said, I don't expect him to be as good as Collins became.

Adams has looked quite good this year at times. He is showing quickness in his routes that was never apparent last year. I think he has been what we expected, but did not see, last year. That supports the stories that are coming out more and more this year, that Adams was hurt a lot worse last year than anyone outside the team knew. I can live with that. Nelson had a very similar year #2, a regression from his rookie year.

[Patler]

Like signing Jared Cook?yup, to replace a guy we lost in 2013

That's only two years, and they weren't ignoring the problem either.

They didn't need a replacement in 2013, because that was the year he was hurt.

In 2014, it was uncertain if he would be back, but they used a high draft pick for a TE who had played WR, and they still had the TE who was good enough for the SB year in 2010. Certainly a reasonable path for the first year without Finley, when his future may have been unclear. The vet regressed and was injured, but the rookie showed possibility not to BE Finley, but to be a contributing TE in his own way.

In 2015 they still had the two from 2014 and they drafted yet another. This was the season that showed they needed to look elsewhere.

In 2016 they signed Cook.

They went two seasons without Finley before getting Cook. I don't see that as a big deal.

In 2015

[Patler]

Well then, make the goddamn arm tackle!

I ain't a physicist, but there's a thing called momentum. If X weighs 245lbs and Y weighs 208 lbs and X is near stationary and Y is dashing toward X unblocked at a high velocity, momentum says upon impact Y will knock the shit out of X, unless of course, Y fucks up.

That fuck up was utterly inexcusable. Dix is, what, 6'1 208 lbs? Tyrion Lannister could've made that play. Dix choked in the clutch, plain and simple.

Yes, the Packers should never fail, just because. I mean its not like the other guys are paid professionals expected to do their jobs, too. Besides, no other defensive player has ever failed to bring Luck down, just Dix.

[pbmax]

Well then, make the goddamn arm tackle!

I ain't a physicist, but there's a thing called momentum. If X weighs 245lbs and Y weighs 208 lbs and X is near stationary and Y is dashing toward X unblocked at a high velocity, momentum says upon impact Y will knock the shit out of X, unless of course, Y fucks up.

That fuck up was utterly inexcusable. Dix is, what, 6'1 208 lbs? Tyrion Lannister could've made that play. Dix choked in the clutch, plain and simple.

You equation is missing the variable for the targets' angular momentum. Luck moved.

[red]

That's only two years, and they weren't ignoring the problem either.

They didn't need a replacement in 2013, because that was the year he was hurt.

In 2014, it was uncertain if he would be back, but they used a high draft pick for a TE who had played WR, and they still had the TE who was good enough for the SB year in 2010. Certainly a reasonable path for the first year without Finley, when his future may have been unclear. The vet regressed and was injured, but the rookie showed possibility not to BE Finley, but to be a contributing TE in his own way.

In 2015 they still had the two from 2014 and they drafted yet another. This was the season that showed they needed to look elsewhere.

In 2016 they signed Cook.

They went two seasons without Finley before getting Cook. I don't see that as a big deal.

In 2015

so, taking a flyer on a 6th round comp pick is trying to realistically fix a major problem to you?

who was this magical TE they had in 2014 that they had for the super bowl? quarless? this is a perfect example of a guy who never was good enough and should have been replaced much earlier then he was. but because he was a TT draft pick, he was made a major factor of the team. even if he never deserved it

most people thought that finelys career was over in 2013, especially after the nick collins injury where the team WOULDN"T bring him back after the exact same injury, even though nick was cleared to play. you might have held out hope in 2014, but the team knew he was done with them in 2013. plus he was a free agent anyways

and i'm one of those that didn't think jermichael was anywhere near as good as he made himself out to be, maybe we shouldn't have settled with him either. to me, he's just another in a long line of packer players that never came close to realizing their potential

[Tony Oday]

I am ok with this year. Maybe it shows that we can't always build through the draft. Perfect Signings would be a shut down CB and a decent Vet backup, the rest of the defense would be just fine with NFL level CBs. On offense we need a 16 game RB and a new High End WR. How have the Packers not had an Amazing WR in a long time? Sterling Sharpe Maybe? Call up Megatron ;)

[Patler]

so, taking a flyer on a 6th round comp pick is trying to realistically fix a major problem to you?

By itself, no. But they used a 3rd round pick on Rodgers the year before, and as a rookie he showed some promise. Backman's forte was supposed to be running and receiving, so using a 6th on him was giving themselves another option, just like the FA signings of so many players that have gone on to contribute for them. There are a lot of positions on the team and only a few draft picks. Building a roster is a lot about numbers, bring in a bunch and see which turn out best. Using a 6th is a lot better than wiating to see what is left after the draft is done and the remaining players scatter.



who was this magical TE they had in 2014 that they had for the super bowl? quarless? this is a perfect example of a guy who never was good enough and should have been replaced much earlier then he was. but because he was a TT draft pick, he was made a major factor of the team. even if he never deserved it

Every SB team has players like that. The point is Quarless was good enough to get by with in 2010, Without injuries, he might have been there blocking TE in 2014. He had gotten decent at that before the knee injury.



most people thought that finelys career was over in 2013, especially after the nick collins injury where the team WOULDN"T bring him back after the exact same injury, even though nick was cleared to play. you might have held out hope in 2014, but the team knew he was done with them in 2013. plus he was a free agent anyways

and i'm one of those that didn't think jermichael was anywhere near as good as he made himself out to be, maybe we shouldn't have settled with him either. to me, he's just another in a long line of packer players that never came close to realizing their potential

I have never been a huge Finley fan either. Unmet potential like so many others, I agree; but he had his moments. They tried to find a guy to replace/complement Finley, but never did. They drafted a Mackey Award winner whose strength was as a receiver, but he bombed out too. The constantly brought in fast guys with the hope one would emerge. No one did.

A third round pick in 2014 is a significant commitment, and that was the first post-Finley season. Giving him 2015 to be the guy was OK with me, he just didn't become it. They didn't sit on their hands with that, signing Cook this year.

[gbgary]

draft and develop is fine in three cases to me...
1) if you're a shit team and totally rebuilding starting rookies out of necessity,
2) if you have a stacked team and the ones being developed are 2s, 3s, 4s, working their way up.
3) if a rookie is a clear upgrade from what's there, stacked team or not.
NOT someone thrown in as a starter because a position was gutted as a cost-cutting move. if you're not advancing you're standing still or falling behind. after standing still for a couple of years they're falling behind the last two and teetering on becoming that shit team totally rebuilding.

if i thought about it longer there might be a 4th case but then it would become the "the spanish inquisision." lol

https://slm-assets1.secondlife.com/assets/5289288/lightbox/spanish.jpg?1332458306

[pbmax]

The Broncos are doing all they can to disprove the wisdom of selling out for one season.

[Pugger]

Hey Tank, how is 2009 treating you? You getting close to the 2010s yet? It's a fun decade, you should come try it out.

:lol:

[Pugger]

Yup. I'm arguing they should do more of that and sooner. How long has Finley been gone? How many years have we been trying to replace him with a draftee? Same with Tremontana. Same with Jennings? Same with ILB. Now, if Shields and Lacy aren't coming back, do we draft a couple of kids and wait four years? Or do we sign a vet?

Unfortunately somebody thought Rich Rod would take Finley's place. Yikes. :lol:

[Bretsky]

Like signing Jared Cook?

Yes, and not drafting dipshits like the Plodder.......

[Bretsky]

Yup. I'm arguing they should do more of that and sooner. How long has Finley been gone? How many years have we been trying to replace him with a draftee? Same with Tremontana. Same with Jennings? Same with ILB. Now, if Shields and Lacy aren't coming back, do we draft a couple of kids and wait four years? Or do we sign a vet?


REMEMBER when a few had the PIPE dream that GB would sign Matt Forte ?? He'd have looked good this yr

[Bretsky]

The Broncos are doing all they can to disprove the wisdom of selling out for one season.

Confused on what this means........didn't they just win a SB by selling out ? And if they had a QB they'd be much improved but they seem to have a nice foundation

[Bretsky]

Unfortunately somebody thought Rich Rod would take Finley's place. Yikes. :lol:

What a pissaway pick for round 3; that was not hard to call on draft day

[red]

Unfortunately somebody thought Rich Rod would take Finley's place. Yikes. :lol:

now dick rod would be just fine if he was the 6th round comp pick

but like B just said, he's not that great for a 3rd round pick. although he has been a bit better this year, at least he's finally getting some YAC. he's like the king of the 4 yard catch

and lets not forget, a lot of people thought he was a pretty big reach in the third

[Patler]

Yes, Rodgers was drafted too high. The fact is the Packers made a significant commitment to replace Finley, it just didn't work. Lots and lots of GMs have missed on draft picks.

[Patler]

now dick rod would be just fine if he was the 6th round comp pick

but like B just said, he's not that great for a 3rd round pick. although he has been a bit better this year, at least he's finally getting some YAC. he's like the king of the 4 yard catch

and lets not forget, a lot of people thought he was a pretty big reach in the third

Rodgers had a ton of opportunity last year, and was unable to do anything much with it. He looks much different this year both physically and performance-wise. I wonder what he might have been like with last year's opportunities and this year's body and conditioning.

[RashanGary]

Adams is leading the packers in yards receiving right now. He runs the best slant route on the team. Looks good after the catch too.

[Joemailman]

Adams is leading the packers in yards receiving right now. He runs the best slant route on the team. Looks good after the catch too.

Just average deep speed, but pretty quick in the 10-15 yard range. And he can use that big body to shield defenders away from the ball.

[RashanGary]

Just average deep speed, but pretty quick in the 10-15 yard range. And he can use that big body to shield defenders away from the ball.


Faster than James Jones. Not as fast as Jordy in his prime. In his prime, now, Adams is fast enough. Should have 3-4 good years of football.

[pbmax]

Faster than James Jones. Not as fast as Jordy in his prime. In his prime, now, Adams is fast enough. Should have 3-4 good years of football.

He is basically Jones' playing style in Jordy's body. He just doesn't have Nelson's top gear (that hopefully Jordy gets back).

He might be quicker in a short area that either. His foot/ankle must have been really bothering him last year as his routes were not getting him as open last year.

[Joemailman]

There were times last year I wondered if he's become a lazy route runner. That injury must have been really preventing him from making cuts. That route he ran for the slant TD was top notch.

[RashanGary]

He is basically Jones' playing style in Jordy's body. He just doesn't have Nelson's top gear (that hopefully Jordy gets back).

He might be quicker in a short area that either. His foot/ankle must have been really bothering him last year as his routes were not getting him as open last year.


He's more like James Jones but a little faster and does better catching the ball in front of him or over his head. He's starting do get an identity as a slant/curl/out WR (like jones) who has just enough speed to win with double moves (unlike Jones.)

[RashanGary]

I'm trying to think of a comparison........ If I were to compare his style to a great player, I'd say Terrell Owens.

[Fritz]

Is Richard Rodgers better this year? He seems pretty pedestrian to me.

[Patler]

Is Richard Rodgers better this year? He seems pretty pedestrian to me.

Although his average per reception doesn't reflect any change from last year, I have actually seen him quite often "run" one, two and even three steps after catching a pass this year. I have no memories of anything similar to that last year except for his one 60 yard reception he had. Had he been able to do that last year, with the 50+ receptions he had, he possibly could have had significantly more yac and receiving yards than he had.

Still very pedestrian, but I think better than last year.

[red]

Yeah, this is the first year we've seen him get yards after the catch

[Zool]

The next tackle Dick Rod breaks will be his first. He's serviceable as a middle of the field receiver, but his blocking is still pretty rough.