Heroes and Zeros - Week 13

[Joemailman]

Heroes:

Aaron Rodgers: Over 200 yards and 2 TD's despite physically limited.

Jordy: 100+ yards and a TD

Montgomery: Mr. Versatility - Running, Catching, Returning

Gunter - Forced a fumble and played good coverage.

Guion - Very active including a tackle for a 9 yards loss.

Ripkowski - Old School!

Zeros:

Datone Jones: Totally vacated edge on long run.

Starks - Turn out the lights. The party's over.

[ThunderDan]

I'd add Clinton-Dix to the heroes list.

[red]

if the foul occurs in the endzone, then its a safety

final score should be 23-13

[red]

wrong thread, whatever

deal with it

[Maxie the Taxi]

I'd add Stubby to the list of zeroes. This game should have been in the bag by half-time. Playcalling and strategy was bad as I've seen it. Toward the end they took more of what the defense gave them, but still it took some great plays by Adams and Nelson to pull them through.

Arod played a gutsy game, but damn! He got way to greedy in these conditions, foregoing shorter completions for long downfield tosses.

[Harlan Huckleby]

wrong thread, whatever

deal with it

zero

[Harlan Huckleby]

Christine Michael was a first half hero.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

if the foul occurs in the endzone, then its a safety

final score should be 23-13

The penalty was declined by either the Fat Man or the ref. If the Texans had scored, Packers woulda accepted the foul and 2 irrelevant points would be added to the final score.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Hero: Janis - Good things happen when this guy's on the field.

[highlander]

Hero: Dean Lowerey

[pbmax]

Hero: Janis - Good things happen 10% of the time when this guy's on the field.

FIFY

[pbmax]

Agree on Lowry. Hero.

Zeroes

Lane Taylor got stuffed twice on runs on the last drive by a single blocker. He's supposed to be very strong but he got abused those two times.

Matthews is barely helping in the middle compared to last year. But Thomas got caught inside and helped Jones allow a run to explode when the Texans were pinned deep. I don't know what they can do there.

[channtheman]

Rip isn't a zero, but can't say he's a hero. He put his head down and didn't even look for a rushing lane on the 4th and 2 attempt. Say it was a stupid call, that's fine, but you have to look for a hole. He likely got the first down if he makes one cut to the right.

[ThunderDan]

Rip isn't a zero, but can't say he's a hero. He put his head down and didn't even look for a rushing lane on the 4th and 2 attempt. Say it was a stupid call, that's fine, but you have to look for a hole. He likely got the first down if he makes one cut to the right.

Yup, he put his head down and ran into Wolfork. Not going to move him.

[gbgary]

FIFY

that! he's gone next year.

[gbgary]

Agree on Lowry. Hero.

Zeroes

Lane Taylor got stuffed twice on runs on the last drive by a single blocker. He's supposed to be very strong but he got abused those two times.

Matthews is barely helping in the middle compared to last year. But Thomas got caught inside and helped Jones allow a run to explode when the Texans were pinned deep. I don't know what they can do there.

cut him some slack. had one arm and 1 3/4 hamstrings.

[gbgary]

i'd give mm a zero for play calling.

[Pugger]

That fumble on the 3 yard line early in the game almost came back to bite us. Our O didn't start to click until MM had AR throw the short passes again. Sheesh.

[pbmax]

That fumble on the 3 yard line early in the game almost came back to bite us. Our O didn't start to click until MM had AR throw the short passes again. Sheesh.

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 2h2 hours ago
Per @ESPNStatsInfo, Aaron Rodgers' first-half passes traveled an average of 4.1 yards in the air. Second half? 12.6.

They also were successful deep in the second half.

[KYPack]

Heroes

ARod and Jordy... Still a shadow of the former terror they used to wreak on NFL D's, but still very effective.

Joe the Maildude... For giving this thread a mature, logical title Instead of sophomoric shit it's been called in the last few weeks.

Dix and Burnette... A talented pair of safeties who work very well together, as they did today

Coach Stub... Yes he had his bad moments, but he put in a solid play in that jet sweep to Jeff Janis.

Lane Taylor... he also had a couple fubars late in the contest, but overall, he fought all day and battled thru some tough situations.

Schum the Punter I wanted cut last month, kicked well. I was hasty in predicting his doom.

Zeroes

Not exactly a ZIP, but Cook showed some flashes, then did his famous disappearing act again. Get the big boy in the mix.

ILB's... Sheezus these boys get banged up. Joe Thomas, getcher poop together, we need ya.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Heroes:

Aaron Rodgers: Over 200 yards and 2 TD's despite physically limited.

Jordy: 100+ yards and a TD

Montgomery: Mr. Versatility - Running, Catching, Returning

Gunter - Forced a fumble and played good coverage.

Guion - Very active including a tackle for a 9 yards loss.

Ripkowski - Old School!

Zeros:

Datone Jones: Totally vacated edge on long run.

Starks - Turn out the lights. The party's over.

Are you talking about the Blue right to the right down the sideline? It would seem to me that the main culprit was Randall.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

that! he's gone next year.

I hope not.

Janis' a ST demon. Offensively, the coaches don't know how to utilize him and Rodgers won't throw him the rock. Guys like Cobb and Janis would be putting up pretty numbers with Josh McDaniels running the offense.

[red]

That fumble on the 3 yard line early in the game almost came back to bite us. Our O didn't start to click until MM had AR throw the short passes again. Sheesh.

which makes you wondedr why the hell didn't they stick with the short passing in the first place

lots of people think that the offense is fixed because they finally looked like our offense of old last week. but yesterday, we saw MM and a-rod go right back to what didn't work for 25 or so previous weeks.

makes you wonder if last week was more of an aberration more then anything else. they game yesterday should have been the perfect time for the short quick passes with the bad weather, but we went back to the long ball and slow developing plays

[red]

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 2h2 hours ago
Per @ESPNStatsInfo, Aaron Rodgers' first-half passes traveled an average of 4.1 yards in the air. Second half? 12.6.

They also were successful deep in the second half.

mostly thanks to a defender falling down

[gbgary]

mostly thanks to a defender falling down

hey...teams have gotten fat on our guys falling down occasionally too. shit happens.

[pbmax]

mostly thanks to a defender falling down

That was one pass. They completed 3 passes over 20 yards.

[Carolina_Packer]

I hope not.

Janis' a ST demon. Offensively, the coaches don't know how to utilize him and Rodgers won't throw him the rock. Guys like Cobb and Janis would be putting up pretty numbers with Josh McDaniels running the offense.

I get it. I want Janis to succeed just like you do. But, I don't know about your assertion that another offensive mind could better utilize his talents. I'm sure in college he was always the fastest guy on the field, so it wasn't hard to tell him to go run fast and catch the ball. In his time with the Packers, I'm sure the coaches were hoping like hell that he would learn the subtleties of the offense and become a reliable contributor. Don't forget that a lot of that proving was up to him. If the coaches believed he was one of the best options, he would be taking away someone else's snaps. I don't think they would artificially hold any player back that could help them win. He has a few more games left this year. Perhaps they can get him a few more jet sweeps.

[Fritz]

I think the sad truth is that Janis is one of those guys with all the physical tools, and he's even smart enough, but he just doesn't have the football smarts. He seems to lack the ability to adjust to the ball in the air, and he doesn't seem to get the nuances of route adjustment. He's just that guy. I still think he ought to be returning kicks and punts regularly, but outside of that, he's not what we hoped for. He's had enough time now.

Maybe they need to draft a receiver in the first round next year. Try to get a guy with all the tools. Then a second round tight end, then an OLB in the third, then a corner in the fourth...

[pbmax]

I think the sad truth is that Janis is one of those guys with all the physical tools, and he's even smart enough, but he just doesn't have the football smarts. He seems to lack the ability to adjust to the ball in the air, and he doesn't seem to get the nuances of route adjustment. He's just that guy. I still think he ought to be returning kicks and punts regularly, but outside of that, he's not what we hoped for. He's had enough time now.

Maybe they need to draft a receiver in the first round next year. Try to get a guy with all the tools. Then a second round tight end, then an OLB in the third, then a corner in the fourth...

He looks like a kid who was (is) a phenomenal athlete who played all sports beside football.

I still marvel about that slant he ran where the LB was standing on his route and rather than go around initiate contact while trying to catch the ball (thereby drawing a flag) Janis bounced off the ILB and fell down. No flag.

[gbgary]

pff has Nelson and Gunter on their "best players in week 13" team...
pff team (https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-best-player-at-every-position-in-nfl-week-13/?utm_content=buffer2368d&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=nfl)

[woodbuck27]

Read it..it's all good.

A real test this coming Sunday with the Seattle SeaHawks @Lambeau.

I wonder what the early odds are?

[esoxx]

Read it..it's all good.

A real test this coming Sunday with the Seattle SeaHawks @Lambeau.

I wonder what the early odds are?

Green Bay +2.5

[Harlan Huckleby]

Green Bay +2.5

I never know what this means. Does it mean Green Bay betters get 2.5 points, i.e. Seattle is favored?

[Zool]

I never know what this means. Does it mean Green Bay betters get 2.5 points, i.e. Seattle is favored?

Yup. If Seattle wins by 2, the Packer bets win.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I see. So the odds for one of my debates with Maxie might be weighted by bookies as "Huckleby +6". I'd have to make 7 more good points than him to win. Shit, I'll take that bet.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I'll spam a glossary for other newbies.

Across the Board - A method of wagering on a horse to win, place and show.
Action - A baseball wager where no pitcher is specified. Also refers to the number of bets being placed on a certain event.
ATS (Against The Spread) - A method of referring to the result of an event that takes the pointspread into account. Also, the act of taking points rather than betting with the spread, or "laying" points.
Bad Beat - A wager that loses unexpectedly.
Beard - A friend or acquaintance used to place bets, to conceal the true identity of the real bettor.
Book - An establishment that accepts bets on the outcome of sporting events.
Bookmaker/Bookie - A person who takes wagers on sporting events.
Buck - $100 (as in a "buck" bet).
Buy (Points) - When a player pays an additional price to receive half a point or more in his favor on a pointspread game.
Canadian Line - A combination pointspread and moneyline in hockey.
Chalk - The favored team, athlete or horse.
Chalk Player - Someone who usually only plays the favored teams, rarely betting on the underdogs. Also known as a "chalkeater."
Circled Game - A game where the limits are lowered, or betting options are restricted, usually due to injuries.
Cover - To beat the pointspread by the required number of points. When you win, you have "covered the spread."
Dead Heat - When two or more horses finish in a tie.
Dime - $1,000.
Dime Line - A line where the juice is 10 percent.
Dog - Short for "underdog."
Dog Player - A bettor who mostly plays the underdog.
Dollar - $100.
Double Action - An "if bet" that is processed when the precedent bet wins, ties or cancels.
Double Bet - A wager for twice the size of one's usual wager; also known as "double pop" or "doubling up."
Edge - A person's advantage when it comes to sports betting.
Even Money - A wager on which neither side lays any odds or vigorish.
Exotic - Any wager other than a straight bet or parlay, also called a prop or proposition.
Exposure - The maximum amount of money a sportsbook stands to lose on a game.
Favorite - The team expected to win an event. The quoted odds reflect the extent to which the choice is favored.
Fifty Cents - $50.
Figure - The amount owed to or by a bookmaker.
Final Four - The remaining four teams in the NCAA basketball tournament.
First Half Bet - A bet placed only on the first half of the game.
Futures - Bets placed on an event or outcome taking place some time in the future (e.g. betting during the season on the Super Bowl winner).
Getting Down - Making a bet.
Grand Salami - The grand total of goals scored in all the hockey games of the day. It can be wagered to go Over/Under.
Half-A-Dollar - $50
Half Time Bet - A bet placed only on the second half of the game.
Handicapper - One who studies and rates sporting events.
Handicapping - The attempt to predict the outcome of sporting events. Usually involves research.
Handle - The total amount of money bet on an event or group of events.
Hedging - Placing wagers on the opposite side in order to cut losses or guarantee a minimum amount of winnings.
Hook - A half-point.
Hot Game - A game that is drawing a lot of action on one side from knowledgeable handicappers.
Juice - The commission the bookie earns.
Laying the Points - Betting the favorite by giving up points.
Laying the Price - Betting the favorite by laying money odds.
Layoff - Money bet by a house with another bookmaker to reduce its liability.
Limit - The maximum amount a bookmaker will allow you to bet before he changes the odds and/or the points.
Lines - Another word for odds.
Linemaker - The person who establishes the original and subsequent betting lines. Also known as "oddsmaker."
Listed Pitchers - A baseball bet which will be placed only if both of the pitchers scheduled to start a game actually start. If they don't, the bet is cancelled.
Lock - An easy winner.
Longshot - A team, athlete or horse perceived to be unlikely to win.
Middle - To win both sides of the same contest in a sports betting event. Wagering on the underdog at one pointspread and the favorite at a different pointspread and winning both sides.
Moneyline - A wager where no pointspread is involved.
Move the Line - A player pays an additional price to receive half a point or more in his favor on a pointspread game.
Nickel - $500.
Nickel Line - A sports wagering line where the juice is five percent.
No Action - A wager in which no money is lost nor won.
Off the Board - A game that the bookmaker is not offering action on at that moment.
Outlaw Line - The earliest line in sports betting. This is an overnight line that only a handful of players are allowed to bet into.
Over/Under - A bet on whether the combined total of the points/goals scored by the two teams will exceed or be less than a specified number.
Parlay - A bet on two or more teams or outcomes where the original stake and winnings are reinvested on the next wager. All selections must be correct for the parlay to win. In the event of a push or a game cancellation, the parlay reverts to the next lower number (e.g. a 4-team parlay becomes a 3-team parlay).
Pick 'em - A game where neither team is favored.
Pointspread - The handicap, or head start, which the favorite gives to the underdog for betting purposes.
Press - To wager a larger amount than usual.
Prop (Proposition) Bet - A special wager offered by the sportsbook on unique and various topics. These wagers can be on sporting events, politics, and even trial outcomes. The wagers use the moneyline format of payoff odds and might include who scores the first touchdown in the Super Bowl, who will win the next presidential election, or whether or not someone on trial will be found guilty.
Price - The odds or pointspread.
Puckline - Giving odds of a goal spread in hockey instead of using a Canadian Line, where both a goal spread and moneyline are played.
Puppy - The underdog.
Push - When a contest ends with no winner or loser for wagering purposes.
Round Robin - A series of three or more teams in 2-team parlays.
Run down - All the lines for a specific date, sport, time, etc.
Runline - In baseball, a spread used instead of the moneyline.
Runner - One who places bets for another.
Scouts - Person(s) who waits for what he thinks is an unusually strong wager. Also known as a "sports player."
Sharp - A sophisticated or professional gambler.
Sides - The two teams or athletes playing - the underdog and the favorite.
Single Action - An "if bet" that's processed only if the precedent bet wins.
Spread - An abbreviated form of "pointspread."
Square - A novice when it comes to sports betting.
Steam - When a line starts to move rapidly. Most "steam games" do not necessarily reflect objective circumstances, but are games that draw a mass of bettors for some reason.
Store - A bookie or sports betting establishment.
Straight Bet - A wager on just one team, athlete or horse.
Taking the Points - Betting the underdog and its advantage in the pointspread.
Taking the Price - Betting the underdog and accepting money odds.
Teaser - A bet on two or more teams where the line on each team is adjusted in the favor of the bettor. Like a parlay, all selections must be correct for the teaser to win.
Ticket - A sports betting wager.
Tie - A wager in which no money is lost nor won because the teams' scores were equal to the number of points in the given line.
Total - The combined amount of runs, points or goals scored by both teams during the game, including the overtime (see Over/Under).
Totals Bet - A proposition bet in which the bettor speculates that the total score by both teams in a game will be more or less than the line posted by the sportsbook.
Tout - Someone who sells his/her expertise on sports wagering.
Under - A wager that the total points scored by two teams will be under a certain figure.
Underdog - The team perceived to be most likely to lose. Also known as the "dog" for short.
Value - Getting the best odds on a wagering proposition; the highest possible edge.
Vigorish - The bookmaker's commission on a losing bet; also known as "juice" or "vig" for short.
Wiseguy - A well-informed or knowledgeable handicapper or bettor.

[yetisnowman]

No offense, but how do adult male football fans not know what a point spread means?

[Fritz]

It's not the concept they don't understand; it's the math symbols.

[Patler]

No offense, but how do adult male football fans not know what a point spread means?

No offense, but a lot of adult male football fans couldn't care less about point spreads.

[yetisnowman]

No offense, but a lot of adult male football fans couldn't care less about point spreads.

Not caring about and not being aware of what they are and what they mean are different things. Betting lines/odds have been listed in every newspaper sports section for like a hundred years. Tons of sportstalk guys spend segments going over picks against the spread. It's a billion dollar industry, and a huge part of the American sports lexicon.

[Pugger]

I think the sad truth is that Janis is one of those guys with all the physical tools, and he's even smart enough, but he just doesn't have the football smarts. He seems to lack the ability to adjust to the ball in the air, and he doesn't seem to get the nuances of route adjustment. He's just that guy. I still think he ought to be returning kicks and punts regularly, but outside of that, he's not what we hoped for. He's had enough time now.

Maybe they need to draft a receiver in the first round next year. Try to get a guy with all the tools. Then a second round tight end, then an OLB in the third, then a corner in the fourth...

If you go to ESPN's website and check out the Packers page there is a link to a podcast from a couple of days ago recorded at the Horse and Plow in Milwaukee. The guest was Janis and he talked a lot about getting on the same page as AR.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/team/_/name/gb/green-bay-packers

[ThunderDan]

Isn't the Horse and get Plowed in Kohler not Milwaukee?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Not caring about and not being aware of what they are and what they mean are different things. Betting lines/odds have been listed in every newspaper sports section for like a hundred years. Tons of sportstalk guys spend segments going over picks against the spread. It's a billion dollar industry, and a huge part of the American sports lexicon.

Everybody gets what a point spread means. It was just the written nomenclature that is unclear to somebody who doesn't like sports betting. Just because betting odds are printed doesn't mean I read them. I was a computer and math geek, it's not like betting odds are too much for me. I can even do long division.

[esoxx]

Also, Packers are +125 on the Moneyline.

[yetisnowman]

Isn't the Horse and get Plowed in Kohler not Milwaukee?


Everybody gets what a point spread means. It was just the written nomenclature that is unclear to somebody who doesn't like sports betting. Just because betting odds are printed doesn't mean I read them. I was a computer and math geek, it's not like betting odds are too much for me. I can even do long division.

You literally asked what Green Bay +2.5 meant within this thread...so yeah I'm not trying to be a dick I just thought it was part of sports consciousness everywhere.

[yetisnowman]

Also, Packers are +125 on the Moneyline.

Whoa careful, these guys heads are going to explode. Slow down.

[Zool]

You literally asked what Green Bay +2.5 meant within this thread...so yeah I'm not trying to be a dick I just thought it was part of sports consciousness everywhere.

Normally plus means positive and minus means negative. In this case it's the opposite, sorta. If they wrote it out as Seattle is favored by 2.5 then the confusion would be less....I think

[Patler]

Not caring about and not being aware of what they are and what they mean are different things. Betting lines/odds have been listed in every newspaper sports section for like a hundred years. Tons of sportstalk guys spend segments going over picks against the spread. It's a billion dollar industry, and a huge part of the American sports lexicon.

Yes, and I am sure many who don't care about betting lines do actually understand them. I also suspect that many who don't care never bother to look at them in the sports pages (why would/should they?), zone out when sports talks shows delve into it, and have the same questions that Harlan had.

For example, that long-in-the-tooth poster known as "Patler" understands point spreads, but does not understand or care about all the different ways betting lines and odds are written. I understand from inside information that he never looks at them in the newspaper, and when sports talk shows have guests that will be discussing it, he turns to something else.

[Patler]

I can even do long division.

A vanishing skill, to be sure.

[yetisnowman]

Yes, and I am sure many who don't care about betting lines do actually understand them. I also suspect that many who don't care never bother to look at them in the sports pages (why would/should they?), zone out when sports talks shows delve into it, and have the same questions that Harlan had.

For example, that long-in-the-tooth poster known as "Patler" understands point spreads, but does not understand or care about all the different ways betting lines and odds are written. I understand from inside information that he never looks at them in the newspaper, and when sports talk shows have guests that will be discussing it, he turns to something else.

The only question that blew my mind was not knowing what +2.5 meant. I get not caring about it, and being fuzzy on specifics. like I dont give a shit about hockey, but I know there are 3 periods in a game.

[Patler]

The only question that blew my mind was not knowing what +2.5 meant. I get not caring about it, and being fuzzy on specifics. like I dont give a shit about hockey, but I know there are 3 periods in a game.

As mentioned above, believe it or not, the use of +2.5 or -2.5 can be confusing to someone who never thinks about it, even if you know what a "2 1/2 point underdog" is, or understand the concept of "being favored by 2.5 points." Then there is the whole concept of fractional points. I've never yet seen a football team score a half point.

[Harlan Huckleby]

To prolong the stupidity....

You often hear the phrase "the Packers are giving 3 points." When that is written as "Packers + 3" it sure don't look like giving, it looks like taking to me, Mister.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Also, Packers are +125 on the Moneyline.

My head just exploded. What the fuck does this mean? Never mind, it's probably really hard.

[esoxx]

My head just exploded. What the fuck does this mean? Never mind, it's probably really hard.

A moneyline is just straight betting on a team to win without any points involved. Since the Packers are the underdog in the game, you would get better payout if they won (+125) straight up. Meaning, if you bet $100 and they won, your return would be $125.

If you bet $100 taking the 2.5 points and won, your return would be $90. The 2.5 points carries a -110 juice factor.

So, if you're confident the Packers are going to win the game outright, much better idea to play the moneyline.

easy peasy fo' sheasy