Some random thoughts about the team moving forward

[RashanGary]

Players up for contract after this year

Peppers - Still can play, but this is probably it
Lang - Top notch player, but the NFL is a young mans game, if we can go younger we should
Perry - Good player. I think we should keep him
Cook - Just now getting on the same page with AR. I think we should keep him.
Hyde - Good player. I think we should keep him
Lacy - Good player. Should be reasonably priced. I think we should keep him
Tretter - Good, young big guy. I think we should keep him
Barclay - I like his versatility, but with Spriggs showing up as a player, if the Packers like Murphy, it might be best to move on.

Players who are good enough to give a deal to a year early

Clinton Dix - Good young player, just coming into his own
Burnett - Solid, experienced player. Glue piece. Would like to see him stay.
Lane Taylor - Good young player
Corey Lindsley - Good young player

Shields' career might be done



I'd like to see Tretter play guard when he comes back. Spriggs has played well, but I envision him taking over for Bulaga in a year or two. If Tretter can play guard, it would make moving on from Lang an easy decision. Spriggs would be the 6th man, and then either Barclay or Murphy as your 7th guy.

With what happened to Shields and Lacy this year, the salary cap looks wide open. TT has the money for another Peppers or Woodson type signing. I could see us going out and getting a CB next off season. I like Randall. Other than that, I like Rollins and Gunter as depth guys. Hyde is a good specialized nickle/dime guy, but would like to see a legit player opposite Randall.

[Bretsky]

Players up for contract after this year

Peppers - Still can play, but this is probably it
Lang - Top notch player, but the NFL is a young mans game, if we can go younger we should
Perry - Good player. I think we should keep him
Cook - Just now getting on the same page with AR. I think we should keep him.
Hyde - Good player. I think we should keep him
Lacy - Good player. Should be reasonably priced. I think we should keep him
Tretter - Good, young big guy. I think we should keep him
Barclay - I like his versatility, but with Spriggs showing up as a player, if the Packers like Murphy, it might be best to move on.

Players who are good enough to give a deal to a year early

Clinton Dix - Good young player, just coming into his own
Burnett - Solid, experienced player. Glue piece. Would like to see him stay.
Lane Taylor - Good young player
Corey Lindsley - Good young player

Shields' career might be done



I'd like to see Tretter play guard when he comes back. Spriggs has played well, but I envision him taking over for Bulaga in a year or two. If Tretter can play guard, it would make moving on from Lang an easy decision. Spriggs would be the 6th man, and then either Barclay or Murphy as your 7th guy.

With what happened to Shields and Lacy this year, the salary cap looks wide open. TT has the money for another Peppers or Woodson type signing. I could see us going out and getting a CB next off season. I like Randall. Other than that, I like Rollins and Gunter as depth guys. Hyde is a good specialized nickle/dime guy, but would like to see a legit player opposite Randall.

I pretty much agree with all of this but I'd add one more

Still can Function, but it's time to move on

Ted Thompson--Melvanize yourself for Eliot Wolf. Step aside, become an advisor, and hire Eliot before we lose him

Dom Capers----Like TT move, it's time for some new blood . He's decent; but it's run it's course

[RashanGary]

Davante Adams expires after 2017. He looked like an absolute animal on that sideline play after he stepped out. Damn! Looks like he's going to have a 1,000 yard plus season. He's just starting to get his identity. We might need to sign him year early to a 10M deal if he blows up the next four games and into the post season (if we make it.)

Nelson is getting old. Cobb is a slot guy. Mongomery too. Adams is our only legit young WR, and AR really doesn't play well with new pieces, so starting over again with a new guy makes me uneasy. I could see Adams resigned too, to a big deal. He could take Shields money. But Peppers money and Langs money is still out there.

[Fritz]

Datone Jones' play has clearly been forgettable, as JH forgot him on his list.

A failed first round pick, that one.

[hoosier]

Why do you think Hyde is worth anything at all? When I am watching the only time I notice him is when he blows a coverage or misses a tackle. What am I missing?

[Zool]

Why do you think Hyde is worth anything at all? When I am watching the only time I notice him is when he blows a coverage or misses a tackle. What am I missing?

Apparently the same thing I am missing. He's the AJ Hawk of the secondary. He's rarely in position to break up a pass, but his guy rarely has YAC. He's very meh.

[RashanGary]

I like him at a couple mil per year.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Apparently the same thing I am missing. He's the AJ Hawk of the secondary. He's rarely in position to break up a pass, but his guy rarely has YAC. He's very meh.He's got great hands. hahaha

[Fritz]

Players up for contract after this year

Peppers - Still can play, but this is probably it
Lang - Top notch player, but the NFL is a young mans game, if we can go younger we should
Perry - Good player. I think we should keep him
Cook - Just now getting on the same page with AR. I think we should keep him.
Hyde - Good player. I think we should keep him
Lacy - Good player. Should be reasonably priced. I think we should keep him
Tretter - Good, young big guy. I think we should keep him
Barclay - I like his versatility, but with Spriggs showing up as a player, if the Packers like Murphy, it might be best to move on.

Players who are good enough to give a deal to a year early

Clinton Dix - Good young player, just coming into his own
Burnett - Solid, experienced player. Glue piece. Would like to see him stay.
Lane Taylor - Good young player
Corey Lindsley - Good young player

Shields' career might be done



I'd like to see Tretter play guard when he comes back. Spriggs has played well, but I envision him taking over for Bulaga in a year or two. If Tretter can play guard, it would make moving on from Lang an easy decision. Spriggs would be the 6th man, and then either Barclay or Murphy as your 7th guy.

With what happened to Shields and Lacy this year, the salary cap looks wide open. TT has the money for another Peppers or Woodson type signing. I could see us going out and getting a CB next off season. I like Randall. Other than that, I like Rollins and Gunter as depth guys. Hyde is a good specialized nickle/dime guy, but would like to see a legit player opposite Randall.


What I like about this thread is the implication: that, for as fun and rejuvenating as this little two-game win streak has been, in reality it's looking damn bleak for the Packers this year, so it doesn't hurt to look ahead.

The secondary is a mess - even if Randall gets back it still looks shaky this year. Now, with another year and good health, it might be the strength we thought it would be this year, but right now it's not. And with the banged up linebacking corps, the pass rush is non-existent unless there's a blitz.

The team has no speed at wide receiver. With Cook's injuries or his track record, he hasn't had a huge impact. The running game left when Eddie Lacy left.

Yup, it's been a fun little ride, but I think it's going to end in either a non-playoff year, or, at the very best, in a one-and-done playoff. so let's talk about what next year might look like. Why not?

[Zool]

He's got great hands. hahaha

I miss him on punt returns. There was never any thrill at all. Fair Catch Hyde leaves nothing to chance.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Why do you think Hyde is worth anything at all? When I am watching the only time I notice him is when he blows a coverage or misses a tackle. What am I missing?

Hyde's smart and he's Aryan. :)

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Burnett was mediocre in yesteryear. He has lost a step. Can't cover anyone anymore.

[texaspackerbacker]

Hyde would seem a lot like Hawk if he had been drafted in the upper half of the first round. Considering where he was drafted, he's been pretty decent - and I recall a few pretty good punt run backs also.

Pretty much everybody mentioned here is a serviceable mid-level, some would say mediocre players. With the exception of Barclay, it's not a bad idea to keep most of them. The problem is that unlike just about every team, we haven't lucked out or drafted more wisely to get some star-quality players. Is that Ted Thompson's fault, or just bad luck? It's hard to say, but the point with Thompson is he has failed to procure any star-quality players in free agency or otherwise either - not since Aaron Rodgers and Clay Matthews anyway. Regarding Capers, his scheming has resulted in a generally well above average defense despite having average or below average personnel.

What should happen going forward? The best thing would be to start fresh with a new GM and a new head coach while Aaron Rodgers is still young enough for it to make a difference. I'd try to retain Capers, as IMO, our D goes right down the toilet without his scheming.

[red]

what you really have to look at is, not if those players are good enough to stay, its are those players better then the rookies that would replace them on the roster?

unless things radically change this offseason

[gbgary]

what you really have to look at is, not if those players are good enough to stay, its are those players better then the rookies that would replace them on the roster?



EXACTLY!! the Packers have been on a slow, but steady, downward spiral in the talent department. philosophy, and talent evaluation (possibly due to people going to other clubs), are problems. the team has to get better...not CHEAPER and not YOUNGER!

[pbmax]

From the NFLPA:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cy8DxpGXEAAA86y.jpg:large

Notice how cheap that bastard Thompson is.

[beveaux1]

Notice how cheap that bastard Thompson is.

Looks like the Packers have spent the fifth most dollars during that time period. The question for me has always been "If you need a medium priced free agent to fill a position, or to make a position decidedly better, which of our players at the end of their contract do we decide to let go?"

We always seem to have 7-10 million to spend at the end of a year, but that money rolls over to the next year when our next years crop of players are up for renewal. It's pretty easy today to say we should have signed Josh Norman when he was available, but it's a lot harder when it means you can't sign your LT or your C or your 8 sack OLB. How do we then fill those positions.

Would we really have been better off signing Travathan to a free agent contract and not drafting Martinez? This might have kept us from signing Perry and/or Cook to a show me contract and also might keep us from signing Tretter or Bak for next year. It also would have given us a 4th round draft pick we can use on a Perry replacement or a Cook replacement. How many good pass rushers have been picked up in the 4th round? What about TEs? That's right, we got R Rodgers in the 3rd. Lot more of those than Wittens or Gonzalez'.

Anyway, I'll say it again, be careful what you wish for.

[beveaux1]

The NFL, with the salary cap and the draft ( where successful teams draft later) sets teams up to have good runs followed by bad runs. We've been able to beat the system for a long time now. Enjoy the ride, our time of reckoning will eventually come. We've been able to job the system so far.

[red]

oh come on, just because we are spending more money then everyone else, doesn't mean we are using the cap as effectively as other teams

maybe TT doesn't understand how to play the cap like other GM's do. if players are willing to sign funny money deals, why not use them?

not all that money spent was good money, and a lot of it was wasted on our own home grown crap

look at the patriots at proof of how to play the cap game. they spend about the same as us in cap space every year, are just as good as us, but have spent 83 million less then us over the last 5 years

[hoosier]

oh come on, just because we are spending more money then everyone else, doesn't mean we are using the cap as effectively as other teams maybe TT doesn't understand how to play the cap like other GM's do. if players are willing to sign funny money deals, why not use them? not all that money spent was good money, and a lot of it was wasted on our own home grown crap
look at the patriots at proof of how to play the cap game. they spend about the same as us in cap space every year, are just as good as us, but have spent 83 million less then us over the last 5 years

https://cdn.empowernetwork.com/user_images/post/2013/01/01/0/fe/bba1/540_293_resize_20130101_0febba18e4c39cb7da74f177c7 059efd_png.png

[Bretsky]

From the NFLPA:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cy8DxpGXEAAA86y.jpg:large

Notice how cheap that bastard Thompson is.



I'd trade him for a 7th round draft pick and Wolf :))

[pbmax]

oh come on, just because we are spending more money then everyone else, doesn't mean we are using the cap as effectively as other teams

maybe TT doesn't understand how to play the cap like other GM's do. if players are willing to sign funny money deals, why not use them?

not all that money spent was good money, and a lot of it was wasted on our own home grown crap

look at the patriots at proof of how to play the cap game. they spend about the same as us in cap space every year, are just as good as us, but have spent 83 million less then us over the last 5 years

But I thought Ted was cheap?

[Bretsky]

But I thought Ted was cheap?


Does this take into account how Ted often uses current year cap money for future contracts ?
Always decent, never great. That's what I think of when I consider Ted's use of he cap. He nearly almost always finds a way to use it up.

[ThunderDan]

He nearly almost always finds a way to use it up.

Channeling Yogi Berra I see.

[Teamcheez1]

The soon-to-be 37-year-old Peppers is heading into the final month of his contract with the Packers, and admitted he’s been giving thought to playing again next year.“I’m not saying that I don’t want to play next year,” Peppers said, via Ryan Wood of the Green Bay Press-Gazette. “I’m not saying that I do. I’m just saying that right now, I don’t know. And I’ll figure it out at some point.

I think his time is up on this team.

[Tony Oday]

The soon-to-be 37-year-old Peppers is heading into the final month of his contract with the Packers, and admitted he’s been giving thought to playing again next year.“I’m not saying that I don’t want to play next year,” Peppers said, via Ryan Wood of the Green Bay Press-Gazette. “I’m not saying that I do. I’m just saying that right now, I don’t know. And I’ll figure it out at some point.

I think his time is up on this team.

Depends at what price.

[Joemailman]

Depends at what price.

Yes. His days of playing for 10 million a year are over. But he can still play.

[Patler]

Yes. His days of playing for 10 million a year are over. But he can still play.

Their plan was to save Peppers for the end of the season. He has had a sack in each of the last three games. Maybe their plan is working?

[Joemailman]

Their plan was to save Peppers for the end of the season. He has had a sack in each of the last three games. Maybe their plan is working?

Sure, but can you afford to pay a guy 10 million for 6 games? Guys making that kind of money need to be helping you win all season. I'm open to him returning, but the Packers have some salary cap issues.

[Patler]

Sure, but can you afford to pay a guy 10 million for 6 games? Guys making that kind of money need to be helping you win all season. I'm open to him returning, but the Packers have some salary cap issues.

Of course not. Wasn't meaning to suggest that he has earned another contract as big as the last. Just agreeing with you that he still can play. The trick is fitting what he can contribute into a teams roster structure and salary cap limitations. A lot of older guys continue playing for quite a few years at a couple million per year. Spot/situational duty seems to work best for DL and LB types. If he wants to play, there are probably a few teams that will be interested. He could end up with 8-10 sacks again this year, and could even lead the Packers in that category by the end of the season. He should be at least their second most productive pass rusher.

[Rutnstrut]

The ONLY way they should bring the old man back is if it were an extreme bargain. Like a million a season.

[gbgary]

The ONLY way they should bring the old man back is if it were an extreme bargain. Like a million a season.

that's the vet minimum for next year for a guy with his tenure. don't know if he'd go for that or not.

[Fritz]

Since it's "random thoughts" is there any random interest in bring BJ Raji back next year on a vet minimum, if he's interested?

[Joemailman]

Since it's "random thoughts" is there any random interest in bring BJ Raji back next year on a vet minimum, if he's interested?

I'd take him over Penal if he's interested.

[Bretsky]

Their plan was to save Peppers for the end of the season. He has had a sack in each of the last three games. Maybe their plan is working?

I may be in the minority here but I'm bringing Peppers back and I'm not afraid to pay him 4-7M per year for another year. He's one of the few things working on D

[Bretsky]

Since it's "random thoughts" is there any random interest in bring BJ Raji back next year on a vet minimum, if he's interested?

BJ has always been about the money; he won't come back cheap

[Joemailman]

I may be in the minority here but I'm bringing Peppers back and I'm not afraid to pay him 4-7M per year for another year. He's one of the few things working on D

I'd pay him 4. 7 might be a bit steep. He does seem to have the ability to stay healthy. Probably because he's a great natural athlete. Played basketball at North Carolina. His size is natural, not a result of bulking up.

[RashanGary]

Maybe 5 mil for peppers..... one year deal.

[woodbuck27]

From the NFLPA:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cy8DxpGXEAAA86y.jpg:large

Notice how cheap that bastard Thompson is.

The NE Patriots @ $500 M$ and the Dallas Cowboys @ $523 M$.

The Green Bay Packers @ $583 M$.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/green-bay-packers/cap/

CAP Hits:

Aaron Rodgers @ 19.25 M

Clay Matthews @ 13.75 M

Julius Peppers @ 10.5 M

Randall Cobb @ 9.15 M

Jordy Nelson @ 8.3 M

Mike Daniels @ 7.4 M

T. J. Lang @ 6.18 M

Morgan Burnett @ 5.96 M

Bryan Bulaga @ 5.46 M

Nick Perry @ 4.875 M.

CAP Money spent on Top Ten = 90.825 M or 58.79 % of the Total CAP Money Spent.

CAP Money spent 154.5 M.

CAP Space 8.959 M.

[Teamcheez1]

Sam Shields should be on your list. He is counting $12M against the CAP in 2016 ($12.1M in 2017 if he is still on the team).

[SkinBasket]

Hyde is an embarrassment to this team and to the fundamental philosophy of defense in general. If he's on the team again next year, I will join those asking for the end of the Ted. Verily.

[run pMc]

Sam Shields should be on your list. He is counting $12M against the CAP in 2016 ($12.1M in 2017 if he is still on the team).

Besides that, 3 of the top 10 are UFA's (Lang, Peppers, Perry)...so there should be cap space. Thing is, there are a lot of others who will be FA's as well (Tretter, Cook, Lacy, Datone, ...)

[run pMc]

Hyde is an embarrassment to this team and to the fundamental philosophy of defense in general. If he's on the team again next year, I will join those asking for the end of the Ted. Verily.

I'm not that down on Hyde.
He's a jack of all trades, master of none. He can play corner or safety and return punts.
Thing is, he's on the slow side for corner, and not polished at safety. He's like a variation on Jarrett Bush.

If TT signs him, I'd hope he rarely ever plays unless it's ST.

[RashanGary]

I think Hyde is a good slot player, a serviceable backup safety and a good ST player. He's not a boundary corner. I like him.

[Zool]

I think Hyde is a good slot player, a serviceable backup safety and a good ST player. He's not a boundary corner. I like him.

He's so rarely in position to break up a pass. My issue with him is lack of big plays. He's serviceable, but you want to do better than him.

[esoxx]

Bring black McKenzie!!

[Patler]

He's so rarely in position to break up a pass. My issue with him is lack of big plays. He's serviceable, but you want to do better than him.

I suspect he is better than many players who fill similar roles on other teams.

[Tony Oday]

What big name RB will we disappointed we don't get? AP? Jamaal Charles?

[RashanGary]

He's so rarely in position to break up a pass. My issue with him is lack of big plays. He's serviceable, but you want to do better than him.

He has 18 passes defended so far. Will Blackmon was with us for something like 4 years with zero if I recall correctly.

[Zool]

He has 18 passes defended so far. Will Blackmon was with us for something like 4 years with zero if I recall correctly.

Must be a perception thing for me. I'm tired of watching the Packers D give up 9 on 3rd and 8. A large majority of the time it's to a TE, and that's usually the guy covered by Hyde. I want to start seeing them get more negative plays on 3rd down.

[StPaulPackFan]

Must be a perception thing for me. I'm tired of watching the Packers D give up 9 on 3rd and 8. A large majority of the time it's to a TE, and that's usually the guy covered by Hyde. I want to start seeing them get more negative plays on 3rd down.

I'm right there with you. Most of the time he just seems a step too late to break up a pass or get a turnover. It's definitely better than being completely out of position. But it just feels like the position could be upgraded, especially with how many teams utilize TE's.

[ThunderDan]

I'm right there with you. Most of the time he just seems a step too late to break up a pass or get a turnover. It's definitely better than being completely out of position. But it just feels like the position could be upgraded, especially with how many teams utilize TE's.

I think he is supposed to be the dime CB at best and for a part of the season he was #2.

He is supposed to be that 5th CB/safety and special teams player. Injuries have killed the team this year.

[Patler]

I think he is supposed to be the dime CB at best and for a part of the season he was #2.

He is supposed to be that 5th CB/safety and special teams player. Injuries have killed the team this year.

Yup. When you peel away 2 or 3 layers from the top of the depth chart like the Packers did at CB for the mid part of the season, #s 4,5 and 6 don't look so good. There are reasons those guys don't have starting positions in the league. I suppose the Packers could have paid House and Hayward the last two years, and had starting calibre players 4 and 5 layers deep at CB, but from a salary cap perspective it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I still think the Packers had exceptional depth at CB this year, not because all had top level starting ability, but because the players at the lower levels of the depth chart were a heck of a lot better than what most teams have at #4, 5 or 6.

[Bretsky]

What big name RB will we disappointed we don't get? AP? Jamaal Charles?

Looking Back getting Forte for what the Jets signed him for would have been a great move

If TT's our GM I think we all understand we won't get a big name

[gbgary]

Looking Back getting Forte for what the Jets signed him for would have been a great move

If TT's our GM I think we all understand we won't get a big name

smh

[smuggler]

Cobb is so overpaid.

[Pugger]

Yup. When you peel away 2 or 3 layers from the top of the depth chart like the Packers did at CB for the mid part of the season, #s 4,5 and 6 don't look so good. There are reasons those guys don't have starting positions in the league. I suppose the Packers could have paid House and Hayward the last two years, and had starting calibre players 4 and 5 layers deep at CB, but from a salary cap perspective it doesn't make a lot of sense.

I still think the Packers had exceptional depth at CB this year, not because all had top level starting ability, but because the players at the lower levels of the depth chart were a heck of a lot better than what most teams have at #4, 5 or 6.

Agreed. No team has starting caliber talent that deep at any position. Had Sheilds not been lost for the season and Randall hurt for long stretches (along with Rollins missing a couple of games) nobody here would be talking about House or Hayward.

[Pugger]

Looking Back getting Forte for what the Jets signed him for would have been a great move

If TT's our GM I think we all understand we won't get a big name

I don't know if a RB with a 3.7 average per carry would have been the answer to our running game. I do think it was a mistake to go into the season with only Lacy and Starks at HB. Losing Crockett didn't help. Let's hope Micheal will make a difference going forward.

[Pugger]

Cobb is so overpaid.

Would Cobb had been paid like this by another team when he was about to be a FA in 2015? Nobody balked back when he signed that contract. I think he is playing pretty well right now.

[Joemailman]

Would Cobb had been paid like this by another team when he was about to be a FA in 2015? Nobody balked back when he signed that contract. I think he is playing pretty well right now.

Actually I recall there was some debate as to whether top money should be paid to a slot receiver. In terms of average salary, Cobb is 15th among WR's. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/wide-receiver/ At the time of the signing, his pay was probably high than 15th. Cobb is currently 50th in the NFL in receiving yards. 3rd on the team. I think a strong argument can be made that he's a good, but overpaid player.

[red]

i guess i'll throw it in here, why not

the NFL is gonna tell teams on wednesday that the cap will be going up between 8-10 million PER YEAR

[red]

Actually I recall there was some debate as to whether top money should be paid to a slot receiver. In terms of average salary, Cobb is 15th among WR's. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/rankings/average/wide-receiver/ At the time of the signing, his pay was probably high than 15th. Cobb is currently 50th in the NFL in receiving yards. 3rd on the team. I think a strong argument can be made that he's a good, but overpaid player.

yes, there was a lot of debate about that

and last year proved that he's nothing more then a slot receiver, he can't step into a #1 role if need be. and as the 15th highest paid WR in the game, he is overpaid

hell, he makes more money then jordy

[RashanGary]

Spriggs really does look like a player. Lang is better now, but Spriggs is cheap. This might be Langs swan song. Also, Tretter should be resigned and I think could play guard too.

Bahk/Taylor/Lindsley/Tretter/Bulaga
Spriggs
Murphy
Barclay (if you can't find someone)
Draft pick(s)
Off the bench. We have a good, young line.

Glad to see Lowry play well. Bodes well for the near future. Clark too. While not dominate by any stretch, he's a just turned 21 year old mid season NT and does hold up in there for being a kid still. I'll bet he makes massive gains into years 2 and 3. The money situation is so good. Could easily see us keeping Perry and Jones. I like our depth going forward.

Shields career probably over. Corner might have a hole going forward.

[ThunderDan]

Shields career probably over. Corner might have a hole going forward.

I agree with this. But that should free 10 million to sign a top flight CB.

[RashanGary]

Maybe we'd luck out and a corner would fall to us in the draft. Corner/Rb/wr/OL just like that.

[Smidgeon]

Maybe we'd luck out and a corner would fall to us in the draft. Corner/Rb/wr/OL just like that.

WR/Corner/RB please

[Fritz]

Funny, just a few weeks ago we were ready to blow the whole thing up. Now we're optimistic.

This is why it's good that fans don't get to run teams.

I think though this team needs more than just good or solid players. Ted needs to hit on a couple superstars soon, as someone else said earlier.

Like a superstar wide receiver, and/or a tight end. Or another OLB who can wreak havoc.

[Patler]

It is disappointing that Fackrell was injured when he was. He had been getting a little playing time and had made a few plays, a couple sacks, a forced fumble, tackle for loss, batted pass, etc. He made some mistakes, and needs to build strength, but he also made some plays. With Matthews problems most of the year, now Perry out, I would have liked to see Fackrell play some more.

[SkinBasket]

I understand the whole depth argument at DB, but I'm in Zool's boat. More often than not, these intermediate drive extending 3rd down conversions seem to be completed 3 or 4 steps in front of 33. Yeah, you can argue that he's down the depth chart, that we've had injuries, blah blah blah. But if the fucking fucker can't cover when he IS in the game, then why the fuck do you keep him on the team? Is he good at folding towels? Yeah, he's like Bush, who people seemed to think was a ST ace years after he proved he had lost that skill, as has Hyde. When you got junk, you got junk, and 33 is junk.

On a related note, wasn't that 33 chugging downfield about 20 yards behind his guy on Randall's INT?

[texaspackerbacker]

It is disappointing that Fackrell was injured when he was. He had been getting a little playing time and had made a few plays, a couple sacks, a forced fumble, tackle for loss, batted pass, etc. He made some mistakes, and needs to build strength, but he also made some plays. With Matthews problems most of the year, now Perry out, I would have liked to see Fackrell play some more.

True about Fackrell, but I guess all of that is what it took for them FINALLY to get Jayrone Elliot in the game - who I like better than any of them except, of course a 100% healthy Matthews.

[Patler]

Re Hyde and GB's other DBs:

By and large, teams complete nearly 2 of every 3 passes thrown, even higher in the short and intermediate distances. Then, too, of the few incomplete passes that there are around the league, some are caused by a good pass rush resulting in a hurried, inaccurate throw. Yet, so many fans seem appalled when a starting GB defensive back allows even one completion, let alone a backup getting beaten a couple times. That's just the way it is in the NFL today. Maybe Hyde "can't cover" as well as we want him too, but he is there because there are a lot in the league who are even worse, I suspect. Do you really think there are great cover guys looking for jobs, even in the off season?

We complain about Barclay, and sure, we want someone better than him coming in when at least two ahead of him are injured. But the league is full of guys like Marshall Newhouse who are starters for playoff caliber teams. I'll take Barcaly over Newhouse just because I like his never give up attitude.

Kind of like baseball. We want all guys who can hit .320, but the league is full of guys who hit .250 only in their very best years, and you might have to play a bunch of guys like that.

[Patler]

True about Fackrell, but I guess all of that is what it took for them FINALLY to get Jayrone Elliot in the game - who I like better than any of them except, of course a 100% healthy Matthews.

It was good to see Elliot play again. I wonder why we saw so little of him early this year?

[Fritz]

So what's the word on Fackrell? Is he done for the year or something? I only heard he was still out with a hamstring problem.

[Patler]

So what's the word on Fackrell? Is he done for the year or something? I only heard he was still out with a hamstring problem.

...and it seems like he injured it on the plane ride home from Washington. I don't remember anything during the game, but he was on the injury report to start the next week.

[RashanGary]

I really like your posts, Patler. It's so easy to nitpick when something goes wrong. No team is perfect.. The best team of the last decade has won 1 Super Bowl. The patriots. They've won a lot of games. They've let good high priced vets go. They've failed in drafts. They give up a lot of yards passing and rushing. Brady lost a lot of big games. If you wanted, you could have literally endless complaints. And you'd be right. It's true. They're imperfect and fall short almost every year.

The Packers are the winningest team in the NFC and people complain about every little thing as if they could do better or the next random coach/gm/#6cb is going to be so much better. It really is a blind spot for fans I think. We can get up and be unhappy and miserable about every little imperfection. That's easy. Seeing a more whole picture, and really using mind energy, that's hard. That's why people don't do it. It's hard.

[pbmax]

Packers play a lot of trail coverage when they are in man underneath. Which literally means they are supposed to be behind the receiver to make the throw go higher than it might otherwise have to. This often happens to Hyde, and he needs someone in the deep end to close on the receiver to knock the higher throw down.

Several of their INTs were the result of this bracketing of coverage with a deep safety.

However, this coverage technique is vulnerable to crossing routes and out routes, because that is normally running away from the help. Hyde's job is to be sure that doesn't leak to a big play (must be close enough for tackle or force out of bounds). So a lot of plays that are completed on him are results the DC and DB coaches are willing to live with by design. Every coverage scheme has a weakness and this is it for the Packers underneath.

One thing that was different about this versus the Seachickens is that the Packers seem to roll coverage to Graham. He had to be bracketed all game because many other lesser TEs have destroyed the secondary. Hyde is fine for depth, but he is not able to handle good TEs by himself. With Burnett playing ILB in their Nitro Nickel, he has been guarding TEs more frequently.

[RashanGary]

This is just guess work, no actual assumption of exact correctness, but a guy like Red, seems unhappy. Bitching about the Packers is like a release. Actually making changes in his own life would he hard. So bitching about something he has no control over is easy and feels therapudic. Nothing wrong with it, it's just not reasonable.

Someone like skinbasket, probably not very successful, but fancies himself the worlds smartest person or at least in the group of superior intellectuals. It's easy to come here and find a flawed player and bitch and feel superior. Nothing wrong with it, we're human, we don't always adjust perfectly to the humble realities of our own lives, but it doesn't make it grounded or reasonable.

So my point is, fans seem highly unreasonable and cling extra hard to their unreasonabality because it's part of their self-image. Letting it go would force them to look in the mirror or at least find a new distraction. And that's hard. Honesty is hard. So here we are, in a sports forum, dodging our realities. Crazy!

But I think most of the stuff here is unreasonable and the unreasonableness can be best explained by looking inward not clinging harder to sports views. I just can't take these people seriously anymore. I want to be humble and relate on a surface, football discussion level, but this shit is craziness. So here I go, I'm gunna call it as I see it. Grow up!!!!!!

[Harlan Huckleby]

Also, Tretter should be resigned and I think could play guard too.

If I were Tretter, I'd stick at center if it was my best position. Let the Packers trade one of the two centers.

I agree Tretter might be able to add some weight and play guard. But is that his natural position? I don't know.

[Patler]

If I were Tretter, I'd stick at center if it was my best position. Let the Packers trade one of the two centers.

I agree Tretter might be able to add some weight and play guard. But is that his natural position? I don't know.

Ya, I think the Packers will have to pick one over the other at center, and be content with losing the other one to play center for another team.

[RashanGary]

If I were Tretter, I'd stick at center if it was my best position. Let the Packers trade one of the two centers.

I agree Tretter might be able to add some weight and play guard. But is that his natural position? I don't know.

Tretter is a boss center. Guards are paid more. Could still get a fat ass paycheck. But yeah, in the most selfish way, he should stay a center and Matthews should pin his ears back every play at the weakest OL and Spriggs should refuse to play guard too. But most of these guys are social by nature and want to help the team and don't want to split from their "pack" (no pun intended), so I think he'd probably move it asked to. And I respect that. I make sacrifices for the group in my life too.

[RashanGary]

If I had to pick centers, I'd pick tretter. Big picture, keeping best 5 and factoring age in, I'd try to play Tretter at guard, but I might be wrong there.

[Harlan Huckleby]

This is just guess work, no actual assumption of exact correctness, but a guy like Red, seems unhappy. Bitching about the Packers is like a release. Actually making changes in his own life would he hard. So bitching about something he has no control over is easy and feels therapudic. Nothing wrong with it, it's just not reasonable.

Someone like skinbasket, probably not very successful, but fancies himself the worlds smartest person or at least in the group of superior intellectuals. It's easy to come here and find a flawed player and bitch and feel superior. Nothing wrong with it, we're human, we don't always adjust perfectly to the humble realities of our own lives, but it doesn't make it grounded or reasonable.

So my point is, fans seem highly unreasonable and cling extra hard to their unreasonabality because it's part of their self-image. Letting it go would force them to look in the mirror or at least find a new distraction. And that's hard. Honesty is hard. So here we are, in a sports forum, dodging our realities. Crazy!

But I think most of the stuff here is unreasonable and the unreasonableness can be best explained by looking inward not clinging harder to sports views. I just can't take these people seriously anymore. I want to be humble and relate on a surface, football discussion level, but this shit is craziness. So here I go, I'm gunna call it as I see it. Grow up!!!!!!

I agree that grouchy posters are troublesome. The beatings must continue until moral improves.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I agree that grouchy posters are troublesome. The beatings must continue until moral improves.Nobody calls me names! Keep it up and I change my damn handle thingy, you young whipper-snapper.

[RashanGary]

Tretter played the best I've seen a center play for the Packers for the first half of this season. Probowl player IMO. He was actually a half way serviceable left tackle. Very few centers can do that. I just like him a whole hell of a lot and think he might be a damn fine guard. Lindsley is a solid center.

I value 24 year old 300+ pound guys who can move and play ball a lot. It would be very hard for me to let one of them go. It would be much easier for me to part ways with a 30 year old 300lber with rickety hips and shoulders. I'm 35, 220lbs and have been mostly good to my body and my ankles and knees and hips are starting to feel the wear.

I lean toward finding a way to keep both quality young big guys but that's me. I like Tretter more and would pay him more.

I wouldn't be shocked if you two were more on with this either. It's an interesting topic with grey area, so I bring it up.

[Patler]

Tretter played the best I've seen a center play for the Packers for the first half of this season. Probowl player IMO. He was actually a half way serviceable left tackle. Very few centers can do that. I just like him a whole hell of a lot and think he might be a damn fine guard. Lindsley is a solid center.

I value 24 year old 300+ pound guys who can move and play ball a lot. It would be very hard for me to let one of them go. It would be much easier for me to part ways with a 30 year old 300lber with rickety hips and shoulders. I'm 35, 220lbs and have been mostly good to my body and my ankles and knees and hips are starting to feel the wear.

I lean toward finding a way to keep both quality young big guys but that's me. I like Tretter more and would pay him more.

I wouldn't be shocked if you two were more on with this either. It's an interesting topic with grey area, so I bring it up.

I prefer Tretter over Linsley, too; but I don't think they are better off trying to force a square peg into a round hole by moving Tretter to guard either.

In the not too distant future, they probably need to find a place for Spriggs to play, too. I can envision Bulaga moving to guard, and Spriggs or even Tretter at RT more than I can see Tretter at guard. Remember that Bulaga was well on his way to taking the starting job away from Colledge until Bulaga was injured at the end of TC his rookie year.

Then again, maybe in two or three years the line will be:
Bakhtiari, Taylor, Tretter or Linsley, Spriggs and Murphy or ... Murphy and Spriggs

[Harlan Huckleby]

Nobody calls me names! Keep it up and I change my damn handle thingy, you young whipper-snapper.

I detect an improvement in your attitude - it's all relative. Justin T. Harrrell's admonishment is working!

[RashanGary]

Then again, maybe in two or three years the line will be:
Bakhtiari, Taylor, Tretter or Linsley, Spriggs and Murphy or ... Murphy and Spriggs

It is that grey. Spriggs looks good for a rookie. I could see it falling the way you and hh see it more now. One or the other at center. The problem is we have seven good lineman who are young enough to stay invested in. You know, maybe we keep both Tretter and Lindsley with bulaga and lang Both as casualties?

Bahk/Taylor/Lindsley/Tretter/Spriggs ?? Oldest guy 26?

Packers have a good OL situation.

[Patler]

It is that grey. Spriggs looks good for a rookie. I could see it falling the way you and hh see it more now. One or the other at center. The problem is we have seven good lineman who are young enough to stay invested in. You know, maybe we keep both Tretter and Lindsley with bulaga and lang Both as casualties?

Bahk/Taylor/Lindsley/Tretter/Spriggs ?? Oldest guy 26?

Packers have a good OL situation.

Ya, my last suggestion had Bulaga out, too. He has had enough injuries often enough, that I think 10 years might be all he has in him. His current contract will take him through 2019, 10 seasons. He will be 31 years old going into 2020.

To keep Tretter, they may have to commit to him as a starter on paper next year; but that could come a number of ways; at center, at guard or even at RT with Bulaga moving inside. Tretter does worry me a little. I don't think he has been available for an entire season yet either.

It's a never ending need, having 8 decent OL versatile enough to cover all the positions. I feel much better about their situation than I did and a year or two ago.

[pbmax]

Wasn't Tretter on the roster and available for the 2015 season, while Linsley started? Tretter started three games that Linsley missed I think.

Apparently they are Clark Kent and Superman.

[Patler]

Wasn't Tretter on the roster and available for the 2015 season, while Linsley started? Tretter started three games that Linsley missed I think.

Apparently they are Clark Kent and Superman.

Could be, so fully available for one year of four?

[pbmax]

Could be, so fully available for one year of four?

You have to start somewhere. Or at least be active and on the bench.

[run pMc]

I'd take Linsley over Tretter at C, unless that leg injury Linsley had is a long term issue. Tretter is good, and more versatile and athletic, but Linsley is stronger and can handle the big NT types better. Plus, Tretter's injury history worries me. I wouldn't be one bit surprised if they signed Tretter long term though. Can Tretter play G? I think he'd have to bulk up, and Linsley is too short for G.

Lang is one tough sucker, it would be nice to keep him but it wouldn't shock me if they let him walk...I just hope he doesn't go to the Vikings. He's dependable and plays with an edge, which the OL needs. Spriggs is a tackle; getting live snaps at RG and not making a fool of himself is a good sign that he has a future.

Letting Sitton go and signing Bahktiari turned out ok, and answered a pair of questions there.
Ted will draft more depth.

They also need to draft a TE, WR, OLB, and CB (or hope Hawkins/Dorleant develops), so they're like every other team with some holes/weakspots in the roster to shore up. If they don't bring back Lacy they'll need a RB too.

[Pugger]

I prefer Tretter over Linsley, too; but I don't think they are better off trying to force a square peg into a round hole by moving Tretter to guard either.

In the not too distant future, they probably need to find a place for Spriggs to play, too. I can envision Bulaga moving to guard, and Spriggs or even Tretter at RT more than I can see Tretter at guard. Remember that Bulaga was well on his way to taking the starting job away from Colledge until Bulaga was injured at the end of TC his rookie year.

Then again, maybe in two or three years the line will be:
Bakhtiari, Taylor, Tretter or Linsley, Spriggs and Murphy or ... Murphy and Spriggs

I just wish Tretter was a little more durable.

[SkinBasket]

So here I go, I'm gunna call it as I see it. Grow up!!!!!!

Says the guy insulting posters who don't agree with him about his "assessment" of the value of resigning a player. Yes, very mature. Your bit about dodging realities seems spot on, though it rises to the level of true irony.