WHO IS THE 2ND BEST COACH IN THE NFL ???????????

[Bretsky]

Given some we calling for IMO a decent coaches head for weeks ago, the timing seems fun to start up a poll of who is the 2nd best coach in the NFL ? When you really think about this question, and those not vote worthy it does not seem MM is that bad.

It doesn't take a Rocket Scientist to acknowledge Hoody Genius is the best coach in the NFL and probably the best of all time. Thank God the Pats and Scott Pioli parted ways years ago because if they had a great GM they might never lose.

Hoody Genius also appears to have surrounded himself with a superior coaching staff that is at least among the best in the NFL. It's my hope Hoody Genius Jr and Hoody Genius' Defensive Coordinator both get head jobs to break the staff up.

When creating the poll, I'm posting he other six Super Bowl Winners, Andy Read since he would seem to be on the edge, and other.

VOTE AWAY RATS !!!! And please list some reasoning behind your call.

[Bretsky]

Another way to look at this; if you have your squad set and you're drafting a coach to lead your group to the finals...............who is your pick ?

I think I'd go with Pete Carroll.

Personally I"m not sure Kubiak belongs in that group but since he won a SB I included him.

MM, PAYTON, HARBAUGH, TOMLIN................they ALL seems similar to me with Carroll being the next best

[Joemailman]

I think it's between McCarthy and Carroll. I went with Carroll simply because he managed to beat McCarthy 2 years ago even though I think McCarthy had the better team.

[Bretsky]

CARROLL was SO CLOSE to winning 2 SB's as well. Had he won both him and Russ would be being touted as HOF guys. Eli Manning will get there based on his two.

[RashanGary]

McCarthy

[texaspackerbacker]

No Jason Garrett on that list? I'm not even all that sure Belichek is #1. I'm also not all that sure being a consistent winner makes somebody the best coach. Maximizing the winning according to the talent available would be my criterion. I had this discussion with my grandson, and he said something that rings true: A "good coach" really doesn't make that much difference in the NFL, but a "bad coach" sure can screw things up. Bruce Arians also wasn't on that list, and I think I will go with him as my choice for best by that maximizing criterion.

[call_me_ishmael]

Jim Harbaugh was the 2nd best coach in the NFL in my opinion. Everywhere he has gone he has won and won big.

I don't care for Sean Payton, he has never impressed me. John Harbaugh has experienced a lot of consistent success in Baltimore with a good-but-not-great QB. He's very good. Pete Carroll is great too. Tomlin and MM are obviously great too.

[Joemailman]

No Jason Garrett on that list? I'm not even all that sure Belichek is #1. I'm also not all that sure being a consistent winner makes somebody the best coach. Maximizing the winning according to the talent available would be my criterion. I had this discussion with my grandson, and he said something that rings true: A "good coach" really doesn't make that much difference in the NFL, but a "bad coach" sure can screw things up. Bruce Arians also wasn't on that list, and I think I will go with him as my choice for best by that maximizing criterion.

Garrett may be Coach Of The Year. But in 6.5 seasons, he's won 1 playoff game. He has a ways to go before he can be compared with the other names. Not sure about Arians. I would have rated him high before this year, but his team was one of the biggest disappointments of 2016. Need to see if he can rebound.

[King Friday]

I'm taking John Harbaugh...he's the less crazy of the Harbaughs, and he's been the one coach who has proven to be able to beat Belichick. He's clearly a very solid cerebral coach who also appears to have firm command of the players.

Carroll is overrated...he lucked into a great situation in Seattle with a ton of talent that he did not have input in assembling for the most part. Let's see how he looks in Seattle 3 years from now when most of that talent is gone.

[vince]

Harbaugh is a great coach but what a nutjob. I couldn't take all that whine.

Carroll and his pom-poms can stay in Seattle.

McCarthy is such a proven QB whisperer, teacher, preparer, innovator and bottom-line winner.

In my opinion, it's

Bellicheck

McCarthy

Tomlin, Reed, Harbaugh
Carroll
Arians, etc.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't see any of those guys who has produced a winner with minimal or even average talent. All of them were pretty much just along for the ride and didn't rock the boat. I said Arians because it seems like he has won with less talent on the team than the others. Harbaugh (Jim) has been a better college coach than pro - maybe his crap works better on that age level - and he eventually DID rock the boat in San Fran, and the team got worse. Harbaugh (John) has presided over the gradual fading of the Ravens - as their talent level aged and got lower. Belichick has had a great run with New England, but he's also had loaded teams talent-wise. He wasn't all that great with the Browns or Jets. Carroll has always been a sleaze, a cheater, and a con man, and as somebody said above, he lucked into a lot of talent in Seattle. He wasn't that great in pre-Brady New England. Tomlin, I'll defer to that great football mind, Terry Bradshaw hahahaha. And then there's our guy, McCarthy. How many times do I have to say, Aaron Rodgers has MADE his reputation as a good coach, and he has failed to maximize the winning even though he has the greatest QB in NFL history. Innovator? Come on! His play calling/game planning, well, the Packers win in spite of it, not because of it.

What pretty much all of those guys are is motivators, and that certainly helps in winning. On the other hand, though, you could name a helluva lot of great motivators who didn't have talented teams and therefore didn't win.

[call_me_ishmael]

I'm taking John Harbaugh...he's the less crazy of the Harbaughs, and he's been the one coach who has proven to be able to beat Belichick. He's clearly a very solid cerebral coach who also appears to have firm command of the players.

I agree with this. He does a lot of the little, strategic things like taking the safety in the super bowl, holding on the final play to run out the clock a few weeks ago, etc. He knows the rules better than anyone it seems.


Carroll is overrated...he lucked into a great situation in Seattle with a ton of talent that he did not have input in assembling for the most part. Let's see how he looks in Seattle 3 years from now when most of that talent is gone.

Not so sure I agree. He built a HOF program at USC and then he has had the final say on player acquisition since joining Seattle. Pete has done well for himself - whether it's due to putting great people around him or his own individual talent. If we were a fledging program, I'd love to bring in Pete and his system.

[call_me_ishmael]

I guess the way that I view Jim Harbaugh is he knows how to make teams tougher, play to their strengths/potential, and the overachieve. He took SF, a horrible program with tons of talent, to 3 straight NFC championship games. Then all of the drama started, he left, and they're back to awful. Sure, some talent certainly left, etc.

Stanford went from bad to great and with Harbaugh's chosen successor in place has maintained a level of consistent top 10 play. Michigan has all of the talent in the world but has gone through coach after coach and couldn't get it done. Jimmy has had tremendous success there in two years so far. I think UM was a top 3 team in the country this year.

[hoosier]

Harbaugh is a great coach but what a nutjob. I couldn't take all that whine.

Carroll and his pom-poms can stay in Seattle.

McCarthy is such a proven QB whisperer, teacher, preparer, innovator and bottom-line winner.

In my opinion, it's

Bellicheck

McCarthy

Tomlin, Reed, Harbaugh
Carroll
Arians, etc.

I agree, I wouldn't want to have to watch Hairball and Mr. Cheerleader every week let alone root for their team. But Carroll's success may be more than just lucking into a good GM and a couple of great drafts. Schneider looks for guys with a chip on their shoulder and Mr. Pom Pom seems to have a knack for bringing out the passion in his players. Would I want to see it every week? No. But I wouldn't be surprised to see Schneider/Carroll sustain the success they've had.

[Fritz]

Pete Care-hole.

He seems to get the most out of the talent he has, and he has a knack for risk-taking that most NFL coaches abhor.

[Tony Oday]

If hoodie is so great why don't the Browns have multiple titles by now?

[pbmax]

No Jason Garrett on that list? I'm not even all that sure Belichek is #1. I'm also not all that sure being a consistent winner makes somebody the best coach. Maximizing the winning according to the talent available would be my criterion. I had this discussion with my grandson, and he said something that rings true: A "good coach" really doesn't make that much difference in the NFL, but a "bad coach" sure can screw things up. Bruce Arians also wasn't on that list, and I think I will go with him as my choice for best by that maximizing criterion.

If he doesn't think a good coach helps much in the NFL, I'd hate to know his opinion on baseball managers. :lol:

I would split the difference here. There are many good coaches in the NFL that make a world of difference but luck and the front office have to be on their side to separate themselves from the pack with sustained success.

Paul Brown, Lombardi, Bill Walsh and Belichick made their organizations successful by being more than just a good coach.

Many others had to be in the right situation to allow their acumen to have a bearing on success. Since you cannot possibly know which of the good coaches will become franchise builders, I like the Steelers approach. Getting a good coach and giving them time and resources to get better. And that includes sometimes tinkering with their staff and methods, as much as most owners do this to their detriment.

Its the one dynamic that might be missing between Ted and Mike, only because I have no idea if it exists.

[pbmax]

If hoodie is so great why don't the Browns have multiple titles by now?

Because a coach cannot do it alone.

[Pugger]

With how much so many of you bitch about McCarthy I'm seriously shocked he is leading this poll presently.

[vince]

With how much so many of you bitch about McCarthy I'm seriously shocked he is leading this poll presently.
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/538797376929288192/nh9nOn5W.jpeg

[Fritz]

He looks tougher these days, with the beard.

[beveaux1]

I wouldn't trade MM for any of those named. I respect the job Carroll, Harbaugh, Reid, and Tomlin have done, but I don't consider them superior to MM.

[bobblehead]

Jim Harbaugh was the 2nd best coach in the NFL in my opinion. Everywhere he has gone he has won and won big.

I don't care for Sean Payton, he has never impressed me. John Harbaugh has experienced a lot of consistent success in Baltimore with a good-but-not-great QB. He's very good. Pete Carroll is great too. Tomlin and MM are obviously great too.

I would agree, but he traded Alex Smith and hitched his wagon to Kapernick, then bailed when it became obvious how bad a decision that was.

[pbmax]

I would agree, but he traded Alex Smith and hitched his wagon to Kapernick, then bailed when it became obvious how bad a decision that was.

Probably an underrated reason for San Fran troubles. But the GM was busy leaking talent too, but losing most of McCloughan's draft gems and not hitting much as his own college talent scout.

[Joemailman]

Depending on who you believe, Harbaugh either left or was pushed out. There was talk of a power struggle with Baalke. As for choosing Kaepernick over Smith, was that a mistake? An argument can be made that Kaepernick's career went downhill after Harbaugh left/was pushed. Kaepernick came a lot closer to winning a Super Bowl than Alex Smith has. I really wonder if Kaepernick's career trajectory would have been different if Harbaugh were still there.

[pbmax]

Depending on who you believe, Harbaugh either left or was pushed out. There was talk of a power struggle with Baalke. As for choosing Kaepernick over Smith, was that a mistake? An argument can be made that Kaepernick's career went downhill after Harbaugh left/was pushed. Kaepernick came a lot closer to winning a Super Bowl than Alex Smith has. I really wonder if Kaepernick's career trajectory would have been different if Harbaugh were still there.

Kap was already showing serious signs of fading the year after their Super Bowl run. At one point before Harbaugh left, his number were atrocious against everyone but the Packers.

One of the points against Harbaugh was that his offense had failed to deliver even after Kap gained experience.

[ThunderDan]

When Kap had has "run" of great play it was when the read option was first being seen in the NFL. It took a while for the D coordinators around the league to catch up but they have. Same with the Chip Kelly offense.

This is where I think MM has gotten stale. He used the West Coast Offense as his base and created a more vertical variation. It was new and unstoppable for a while. D coordinators have now caught up with the scheme and MM's insistence that they just need to execute better doesn't ring true. He needs to put a new wrinkle in the O to keep the opposing Ds on their heels. Having threats like Monty going out of the backfield and Cook at TE to stretch the field have certainly helped.

[RashanGary]

When Kap had has "run" of great play it was when the read option was first being seen in the NFL. It took a while for the D coordinators around the league to catch up but they have. Same with the Chip Kelly offense.

This is where I think MM has gotten stale. He used the West Coast Offense as his base and created a more vertical variation. It was new and unstoppable for a while. D coordinators have now caught up with the scheme and MM's insistence that they just need to execute better doesn't ring true. He needs to put a new wrinkle in the O to keep the opposing Ds on their heels. Having threats like Monty going out of the backfield and Cook at TE to stretch the field have certainly helped.

I just listened to some assistant coaches talk on Packers.com . I believe it's clements who talked about Rodgers taking time to trust his receivers and anticipate rather than wait and be sure the player knows what he's doing. Rodgers has a special hate for turnovers. A guy like favre, you can plug random guys in and favre will do what he's supposed to do and if the guy is not there.... interception. Rodgers is more of a control freak and needs trust to make those same throws.

I think MM and AR have the offense humming right now. Nobodies caught up to it. But at the beginning of the year, I think they need to maybe simplify for the younger guys so they're doing a few things well that AR can count on and grow over the year, rather than expect them to do everything well.

Or maybe I'm wrong. If the Packers win the SB this year, maybe pushing guys to be on the same page of a big book is better because even though it takes time some years, it wins Super Bowls when it comes together. This year is an example of AR finding chemistry with 17, 87, 89 and I think he has it with 18 and 88 too. Oh, 82 as well. So they've built a masterpiece this year. We'll see.

[King Friday]

I just can't see McCarthy as the 2nd best coach in the league right now.

He's got Aaron Rodgers, and has only been to the Super Bowl ONCE. That is rather pathetic for a guy who is supposedly the 2nd best coach in the league.

[texaspackerbacker]

A minor point about Kaepernick: I don't think his biggest successes were read option. Against the Packers at least, and probably in general, he did like Aaron Rodgers does - drop back to pass and then basically run to daylight if his receivers were covered. And as good as Rodgers is that way, Kaepernick was about twice as fast. Harbaugh, rather than try to take advantage of that, tried to throttle it down and make the guy throw it away more or whatever - avoid getting hurt or for whatever reason, running less.

[3irty1]

I like MM quite a bit. He's got the drama-repelling demeanor I like, consistently produces effective game plans, and is somehow still an underrated play caller.

That said I went with John Harbaugh. I'm simply convinced its better to have a defensive guru for a HC. Competitive edge for an NFL offense seems like mostly a function of quarterback's play. There is no such positional hegemon on the defensive side of the ball and thus any advantages or innovations a coach can provide just seem more significant. The QB + defensive guru coach recipe just works.

[RashanGary]

I like MM quite a bit. He's got the drama-repelling demeanor I like, consistently produces effective game plans, and is somehow still an underrated play caller.

That said I went with John Harbaugh. I'm simply convinced its better to have a defensive guru for a HC. Competitive edge for an NFL offense seems like mostly a function of quarterback's play. There is no such positional hegemon on the defensive side of the ball and thus any advantages or innovations a coach can provide just seem more significant. The QB + defensive guru coach recipe just works.

Never thought about it like that, but well said..... Hmmm??

[Zool]

Pete Carroll can choke on a dick and die. He teaches his players to be cheap and for some reason the league looks away. He left USC when the sanctions were coming down. He's a piece of shit and you shouldn't validate anything about him by putting him on this list. He needs to get run over by a truck full of cow shit and be forced to eat the shit it as he dies.

[George Cumby]

Pete Carroll can choke on a dick and die......He needs to get run over by a truck full of cow shit and be forced to eat the shit it as he dies.

A post of this calibre requires, nay, demands a response. Alas, words fail me at every turn. Suffice it to say, you Zool, are a wordsmith of the highest order and possess the soul of a poet.

Bravo, Sir, Bravo.

[ThunderDan]

Pete Carroll can choke on a dick and die. He teaches his players to be cheap and for some reason the league looks away. He left USC when the sanctions were coming down. He's a piece of shit and you shouldn't validate anything about him by putting him on this list. He needs to get run over by a truck full of cow shit and be forced to eat the shit it as he dies.

That is how I feel about Jim Harbaugh also. just a complete asshole. What true coach looses his shit at the refs so bad that he causes he team to underperform? The OSU game was a perfect example.

Last night was a classic also. Great game MI comes back with 17 points in the last 5 minutes. FSU gets the ball back with 12 seconds left up by 1 after scoring a TD with less than mknute remaining to take the lead back. FSU goes victory formation snaps the ball and starts celebrating. Kids running on the field, going to grab the game trophy, and Harbaugh calls a time out and then complains to the refs that there should be a delay of game penalty on FSU. Complete dick move. He then calls his final time out on 2nd down and makes FSU snap it again.

[Zool]

Verily

[woodbuck27]

No Jason Garrett on that list? I'm not even all that sure Belichek is #1. I'm also not all that sure being a consistent winner makes somebody the best coach. Maximizing the winning according to the talent available would be my criterion. I had this discussion with my grandson, and he said something that rings true: A "good coach" really doesn't make that much difference in the NFL, but a "bad coach" sure can screw things up. Bruce Arians also wasn't on that list, and I think I will go with him as my choice for best by that maximizing criterion.

I am sure....Belichick is NO. 1 !!!

Number 2....I like Mike Tomlin for how he participates from the sideline. I mean this man is into the game entirely but .......so is my choice for NO. 2....That has to be Pete Carroll. That man is totally on board...fully engaged and his teams have done very well over the last half decade.

[Freak Out]

That is how I feel about Jim Harbaugh also. just a complete asshole. What true coach looses his shit at the refs so bad that he causes he team to underperform? The OSU game was a perfect example.

Last night was a classic also. Great game MI comes back with 17 points in the last 5 minutes. FSU gets the ball back with 12 seconds left up by 1 after scoring a TD with less than mknute remaining to take the lead back. FSU goes victory formation snaps the ball and starts celebrating. Kids running on the field, going to grab the game trophy, and Harbaugh calls a time out and then complains to the refs that there should be a delay of game penalty on FSU. Complete dick move. He then calls his final time out on 2nd down and makes FSU snap it again.

I couldn't fucking believe it.....wait...yes I could. It was Harbaugh.

[LP]

Pete Carroll can choke on a dick ... He needs to get run over by a truck full of cow shit and be forced to eat the shit it as he dies.

Wow. What did a truck full of cow shit ever do to you to get treated so poorly?