Wild Card Week: They Might Be Giants

[pbmax]

About Shields status:

Aaron Nagler ‏@AaronNagler 1h1 hour ago
@Junior_op We haven't heard from him in months, but Clinton-Dix did say he was still having headaches as recently as a few weeks ago.

[MadScientist]

Time to call it a career. Take the ring, the money and take it easy for a good long time.

As for the Giants. They've come into Lambeau and fucked up the Packers playoffs twice now. Time to pay them back.

[smuggler]

Would be nice to crush them but it doesn't make up for those two upsets. That would require us beating them in NY as dogs. Twice. Won't happen for a long long time.

[Upnorth]

My biggest question going into this game is whether our pass rush is good enough / giants oline sucks enough to cover up for our depleted secondary. We might be able to get to eli often enough to prevent a back end collapse.

[call_me_ishmael]

Really sucks for Sam. This would be a case where I would advocate for signing another corner in FA after the season in addition to drafting one. They are just so young there.

[Teamcheez1]

My biggest question going into this game is whether our pass rush is good enough / giants oline sucks enough to cover up for our depleted secondary. We might be able to get to eli often enough to prevent a back end collapse.

Mike Pennel is eligible to come back. All is solved.

[hoosier]

I am optimistic that the new amoeba defense (four safeties plus however many CBs are still able to make it onto the field) will hemorrhage less than when they had Rollins and Randall back there together.

[gbgary]

My biggest question going into this game is whether our pass rush is good enough / giants oline sucks enough to cover up for our depleted secondary. We might be able to get to eli often enough to prevent a back end collapse.

it did ok in the first game earlier this season. we get the suspended guy back. that might help the run d. obj only had 50+- yards and 1 td that game. i just hope we don't put our back-up, injured, dbs on an island too much by blitzing.

[Fritz]

I think the amoeba defense is probably going to have to carry this team through whatever playoff run they can get. And I know Pennel can come back, and you'd think that'd help, but he didn't do much last time he came back. Still, you'd think the guy has fresh legs, and Guion seems to not be effective recently.

[texaspackerbacker]

Yeah, I too have hope for that "amoeba" thing or whatever they want to call it based on brief success last game. The question is, what are we weakening or opening up when we do that? I remember seeing the first Cowboy/Giant game, and the Giants gashed 'em with inside running. If we have too many DBs on the field, that might become the weakness.

[Netmag]

Well, let's face it, the D is shaky at best. In a single game, they can look good some quarters, and other quarters look like they'll collapse at any moment (a la against Seattle in the playoffs when we had that game won and blew it). However, the one hopeful thing is that I recall feeling the same way about our D when we last won the super bowl. Then, I just thought we were too young and needed maybe another year to get better. I now feel that none of that really matters as much in the NFL today. All that matters is getting hot when it matters. Doesn't matter if you have a lot of rookies or not. In fact, you need some young guys to have the energy and ability to not even know or care that they shouldn't be in the super bowl yet.
However, now, it's more that we seem decimated rather than just young, but maybe there's a chance they can all (including the Offense) still catch fire here.

[pbmax]

Gonna be a long game:

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky Rob Demovsky Retweeted Kevin Seifert
Ed Hochuli will handle the Packers-Giants.

[QBME]

Gonna be a long game:

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky Rob Demovsky Retweeted Kevin Seifert
Ed Hochuli will handle the Packers-Giants.

I'm not impressed with big Ed. If you check out his bio on his law firm website (http://www.jshfirm.com), it notes that he "moonlights" as an NFL referee. IMHO this supports the idea of professional ref's for the NFL. And Patler, please, don't.

[Patler]

IMHO this supports the idea of professional ref's for the NFL. And Patler, please, don't.

I'll try not to, but you are going to have to tell me what it is that I'm not supposed to do. I have no idea what you thought I might do! :grin:

[QBME]

I'll try not to, but you are going to have to tell me what it is that I'm not supposed to do. I have no idea what you thought I might do! :grin:

Four or five years ago I floated the concept of dedicated, professional full time refs. I was then Patlerized, i.e. dressed down in a gentlemanly, albeit clinically precise fashion, as to the reality of such a notion. I even received a Patlerized stamp (haven't seen that for a while) from others on the board. So I'm preemptively throwing myself on the mercy of the kangaroo court. :)

[gbgary]

Four or five years ago I floated the concept of dedicated, professional full time refs. I was then Patlerized, i.e. dressed down in a gentlemanly, albeit clinically precise fashion, as to the reality of such a notion. I even received a Patlerized stamp (haven't seen that for a while) from others on the board. So I'm preemptively throwing myself on the mercy of the kangaroo court. :)

lol

[pbmax]

Packers on Scout @PackersOnScout
#Packers Favre Picks Packers in NFC

https://t.co/al9n3oc9KK

I believe, quite seriously, that he would prefer Rodgers not to get a second Super Bowl win. And probably not a third MVP. And this kind of goofy prediction from nowhere, is his way of sticking a needle into his Ted and Mike voodoo doll.

[beveaux1]

Packers on Scout @PackersOnScout
#Packers Favre Picks Packers in NFC

https://t.co/al9n3oc9KK

I believe, quite seriously, that he would prefer Rodgers not to get a second Super Bowl win. And probably not a third MVP. And this kind of goofy prediction from nowhere, is his way of sticking a needle into his Ted and Mike voodoo doll.

I agree with this. Favre doesn't want another QB to take his place as 2nd best Packer QB ever.

[Fritz]

Well, let's face it, the D is shaky at best. In a single game, they can look good some quarters, and other quarters look like they'll collapse at any moment (a la against Seattle in the playoffs when we had that game won and blew it). However, the one hopeful thing is that I recall feeling the same way about our D when we last won the super bowl. Then, I just thought we were too young and needed maybe another year to get better. I now feel that none of that really matters as much in the NFL today. All that matters is getting hot when it matters. Doesn't matter if you have a lot of rookies or not. In fact, you need some young guys to have the energy and ability to not even know or care that they shouldn't be in the super bowl yet.
However, now, it's more that we seem decimated rather than just young, but maybe there's a chance they can all (including the Offense) still catch fire here.

I don't see any parallels defensively to 2010. That year, they held the Bears to a measly 3 points in the last game to squeak into the playoffs. The defense won that game, since the offense scored only ten points. I don't think this defense is capable of winning a game at this point.

And defense wins championships.

There are other problems too. The Giants' running game is emerging, and I still don't understand why the Lions abandoned the run in the second half of that last game. Zenner, no All Pro, was ripping through the middle of the Green Bay line, and the Lions were only down by three points in the third quarter. If the Giants show more patience running the ball, that will probably gash the Packer defense, which does not have to manpower to match up against the Giants' top two receivers in terms of passing offense. And unfortunately, the usually "meh" Eli Manning seems to turn it up a notch in the playoffs.

On the other side of the ball, the Giants have a very, very deep secondary. I'm afraid we're all going to revert back to "Why can't any of these Packer receivers get open, for Chrissakes?" mode. Rodgers can scramble all he wants, but we all remember what that looked like earlier this season when the receivers couldn't get open. Or last year.

[Zool]

I agree with this. Favre doesn't want another QB to take his place as 2nd best Packer QB ever.

Too late for all that. Imagine if they could somehow give the '95 defense to Rodgers for a few years?

[ThunderDan]

I don't see any parallels defensively to 2010. That year, they held the Bears to a measly 3 points in the last game to squeak into the playoffs. The defense won that game, since the offense scored only ten points. I don't think this defense is capable of winning a game at this point.

And defense wins championships.

There are other problems too. The Giants' running game is emerging, and I still don't understand why the Lions abandoned the run in the second half of that last game. Zenner, no All Pro, was ripping through the middle of the Green Bay line, and the Lions were only down by three points in the third quarter. If the Giants show more patience running the ball, that will probably gash the Packer defense, which does not have to manpower to match up against the Giants' top two receivers in terms of passing offense. And unfortunately, the usually "meh" Eli Manning seems to turn it up a notch in the playoffs.

On the other side of the ball, the Giants have a very, very deep secondary. I'm afraid we're all going to revert back to "Why can't any of these Packer receivers get open, for Chrissakes?" mode. Rodgers can scramble all he wants, but we all remember what that looked like earlier this season when the receivers couldn't get open. Or last year.

Eli is not super human in the playoffs. In 2011 he was, the rest of the years I'd take Dilfer.

2005 - 10/18 113Y 0Tds 3Ints - 1 and Done
2006 - 16/27 161 2 1 - 1 and Done
2007 - 72/119 213.5 YPG 6 1 - In 4 games, won Super Bowl
2008 - 15/29 169 0 2 - 1 and Done
2011 - 106/163 304.8 YPG 9 1 - In 4 games, won Super Bowl

[pbmax]

Someone cruel, I mean with a REAL mean streak, would list all the playoff disappointments from the Wolf/Holmgren era and we could tally up how the true gut punchers stack up.

[hoosier]

I don't see any parallels defensively to 2010. That year, they held the Bears to a measly 3 points in the last game to squeak into the playoffs. The defense won that game, since the offense scored only ten points. I don't think this defense is capable of winning a game at this point.

And defense wins championships.

There are other problems too. The Giants' running game is emerging, and I still don't understand why the Lions abandoned the run in the second half of that last game. Zenner, no All Pro, was ripping through the middle of the Green Bay line, and the Lions were only down by three points in the third quarter. If the Giants show more patience running the ball, that will probably gash the Packer defense, which does not have to manpower to match up against the Giants' top two receivers in terms of passing offense. And unfortunately, the usually "meh" Eli Manning seems to turn it up a notch in the playoffs.

On the other side of the ball, the Giants have a very, very deep secondary. I'm afraid we're all going to revert back to "Why can't any of these Packer receivers get open, for Chrissakes?" mode. Rodgers can scramble all he wants, but we all remember what that looked like earlier this season when the receivers couldn't get open. Or last year.

I tend to agree, Packers don't match up well with this team. Giants will be a tough out, and should probably be favored.

[yetisnowman]

I'm surprisingly optimistic about this game. if we can create one or two turnovers I think we win easily. It's a stout defenses, but we have the best player on the field, and he is focused right now.
Pack 31-18

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't expect it to be an easy game, but I would disagree about the Packers not matching up well. It seems like a team with a mobile QB would be a bigger problem - Newton or Kaepernick or potentially Prescott. Also, a team with a careful QB would be tougher - Prescott or Wilson prior to this season at least come to mind. Eli Manning ranges from a little bit Cutler-esque to a lot that way depending on the week and the degree of pass rush. It might seem that the Packers would be in jeopardy with the high quality WRs the Giants have, but for some reason, we seem to have more problem with lesser WRs - turning average guys into stars. I think Capers will find a way to take away the Giants deep and medium passing game.

The Giants should not be favored based on overall and especially recent performance. And no, defense doesn't always win championships. Decent D and overpowering offense does the job better IMO.

[gbgary]

as the game gets closer it's getting scarier to me. it's our great offense against their great defense...and their poor offense against our poor defense. on The Herd this morning they were talking about the refs and how they work in the playoffs. chris carter said the refs will let more go in the playoffs...so the more physical d will probably win the game. we don't have that rep. if they jam or guys and they can't get open it's going to be a long afternoon. if we play soft again and let wrs run it's going to be a long afternoon. in my mind it's going to have to be a game like our 2nd half of the det game...short, quick, routes and runs. ball control, move the chains, eat the clock, get points, if we're going to have a chance. keep the ball away from their o and exhaust their d.

[Fritz]

I don't expect it to be an easy game, but I would disagree about the Packers not matching up well. It seems like a team with a mobile QB would be a bigger problem - Newton or Kaepernick or potentially Prescott. Also, a team with a careful QB would be tougher - Prescott or Wilson prior to this season at least come to mind. Eli Manning ranges from a little bit Cutler-esque to a lot that way depending on the week and the degree of pass rush. It might seem that the Packers would be in jeopardy with the high quality WRs the Giants have, but for some reason, we seem to have more problem with lesser WRs - turning average guys into stars. I think Capers will find a way to take away the Giants deep and medium passing game.

The Giants should not be favored based on overall and especially recent performance. And no, defense doesn't always win championships. Decent D and overpowering offense does the job better IMO.


Dammit, Tex, that is absolutely unAmerican. Or at least UnTexan.

And if the Green Bay defense doesn't get more physical than they have been, this is going to be ugly. The Packers seemed to be physically tough against the Bears, but against the Lions the defensive backs seemed to push, not hit, and Green Bay running backs (whose initials are Ty Montgomery) did a lot of stepping out of bounds instead of hitting someone.

[pbmax]

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 36m36 minutes ago
CB Damarious Randall (shoulder, knee), T Jason Spriggs (shoulder) and WR Randall Cobb (ankle) all practicing for #Packers.

Charles Tillman ‏@peanuttillman
�� I'm ready to Run the Table if y'all need some CB's @AaronRodgers12 #StillTryingToGetARingInRetirement

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 2h2 hours ago
Jason Wilde Retweeted Charles Tillman
OK, @peanuttillman, settle this for us in the #Packers media corps discussing this Tweet: Were you serious? What if No. 12 gave you a call?

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 21m21 minutes ago
#Packers playoff captains:
Offense ~ Aaron Rodgers, T.J. Lang.
Defense ~ Julius Peppers, Ha Ha Clinton-Dix.
ST ~ Mason Crosby, Micah Hyde.

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 50m50 minutes ago
Quinten Rollins in concussion protocol; Packers add former WR to CB mix

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 58m58 minutes ago
Packers not practicing; CB Quinten Rollins (concussion), RB James Starks (concussion),... http://es.pn/2iJs0cH

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 3h3 hours ago
Makinton Dorleant to IR

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 3h3 hours ago
Coach Mike McCarthy said the Packers are promoting CB Herb Waters from the practice... http://es.pn/2j5D7ct [/B]

Jordan Raanan ‏@JordanRaanan
Jason Pierre-Paul (core muscle) still not practicing. Everyone else was on field working.

Michael Cohen ‏@Michael_Cohen13 1h1 hour ago
Did not practice for the #Packers:

Rollins
Thomas
Starks
Peppers

Cobb and Damarious Randall both practiced. Perry appeared limited.

Michael Cohen ‏@Michael_Cohen13 3h3 hours ago
McCarthy said Herb Waters' move from WR to CB is a credit to the player and Joe Whitt Jr., the position coach. McCarthy is excited for him.

Michael Cohen ‏@Michael_Cohen13 3h3 hours ago
McCarthy said ILB Joe Thomas will "get started" today at practice to see how his back is feeling. Bothered him for a couple weeks.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Seattle just signed Devin Hester because Tyler Lockett is injured. Dallas just signed FA Jonathan Cooper as OL backup. Why not sign Tillman?

[pbmax]

Seattle just signed Devin Hester because Tyler Lockett is injured. Dallas just signed FA Jonathan Cooper as OL backup. Why not sign Tillman?

In a statement that has never been made before, I feel we must weigh the significance of the poop emoji in Tillman's tweet before we can judge whether he is serious.

Since it doesn't translate on the board as copy and paste, here is a screen shot:


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/PeanutTillman.png

[Maxie the Taxi]

Assuming Tillman is in reasonable shape, I'd sign him. I think I'd rather have a 13 year vet in the game than a rookie converted CB who never played in a regular season NFL game, let alone the playoffs. This CB situation is getting serious. I'm thinking Dom's only option is to play man-to-man or really really go KISS.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I wonder where Robertson Daniel and Demitri Goodson are and whether they are available to play?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Dammit, Tex, that is absolutely unAmerican. Or at least UnTexan.

And if the Green Bay defense doesn't get more physical than they have been, this is going to be ugly. The Packers seemed to be physically tough against the Bears, but against the Lions the defensive backs seemed to push, not hit, and Green Bay running backs (whose initials are Ty Montgomery) did a lot of stepping out of bounds instead of hitting someone.

The Packer D seems to play better (and more physical) at home than the road. At least it seems that way to me, especially during the table running portion of the program.

[Bossman641]

In a statement that has never been made before, I feel we must weigh the significance of the poop emoji in Tillman's tweet before we can judge whether he is serious.

Since it doesn't translate on the board as copy and paste, here is a screen shot:


http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/PeanutTillman.png

"Shit, I'm ready to run the table" as in "Shoot, let's go. I wanna win a SB"

[Joemailman]

I wonder where Robertson Daniel and Demitri Goodson are and whether they are available to play?

Goodson is on IR. Daniel is on the Ravens practice squad.

[pbmax]

"Shit, I'm ready to run the table" as in "Shoot, let's go. I wanna win a SB"

I'll be honest, I was expecting it to be more complicated. :D

[texaspackerbacker]

Dammit, Tex, that is absolutely unAmerican. Or at least UnTexan.

And if the Green Bay defense doesn't get more physical than they have been, this is going to be ugly. The Packers seemed to be physically tough against the Bears, but against the Lions the defensive backs seemed to push, not hit, and Green Bay running backs (whose initials are Ty Montgomery) did a lot of stepping out of bounds instead of hitting someone.

I didn't notice Montgomery stepping out prematurely, but I'd rather have him healthy and playing than macho and hurt. Toughness is kinda like style points.

Do you by any chance mean Houston Texan?

UnAmerican? Clearly you don't mean American like in the old AFL hahahaha. Other than that, I'll invite you to do battle in FYI.

Regarding the Chris Carter quote above, if the refs let them get away with more in the playoffs - which I don't necessarily believe just because he says it, arguably it would benefit our shaky DBs more than the Giants.

[QBME]

Assuming Tillman is in reasonable shape, I'd sign him. I think I'd rather have a 13 year vet in the game than a rookie converted CB who never played in a regular season NFL game, let alone the playoffs. This CB situation is getting serious. I'm thinking Dom's only option is to play man-to-man or really really go KISS.

Tillman is done, over, toast. Seattle is seemingly desperate. Good.

[Rutnstrut]

Seattle just signed Devin Hester because Tyler Lockett is injured. Dallas just signed FA Jonathan Cooper as OL backup. Why not sign Tillman?

Because it's not the TT way. To hell with winning if you can't do it Ted's way.

[Guiness]

I'll try not to, but you are going to have to tell me what it is that I'm not supposed to do. I have no idea what you thought I might do! :grin:

What's on second?

[Joemailman]

http://d2s3dt9f4iyeup.cloudfront.net/images/resized_v1/f7babac9-0e70-4b32-8ea9-624b3125e688.jpg

[Fritz]

To me, Joe Thomas is a key injury. That kid was starting to play really well, and he affords the team a chance to keep Burnett in the back while having someone out there who has a better chance at actually covering a tight end or running back than, say, Jake Ryan or Blake Martinez. He actually seemed like a difference-maker in the Detroit game before he got hurt.

As others have said, it's also imperative that Clay Matthews plays like he did against Minnesota, not like he did against Detroit. IF this team has any chance at stopping the Giants' passing game, it rests on getting an actual factual pass rush.

[Pugger]

To me, Joe Thomas is a key injury. That kid was starting to play really well, and he affords the team a chance to keep Burnett in the back while having someone out there who has a better chance at actually covering a tight end or running back than, say, Jake Ryan or Blake Martinez. He actually seemed like a difference-maker in the Detroit game before he got hurt.

As others have said, it's also imperative that Clay Matthews plays like he did against Minnesota, not like he did against Detroit. IF this team has any chance at stopping the Giants' passing game, it rests on getting an actual factual pass rush.

Detroit's O line is better than MN's. I understand NY's line isn't so hot either so perhaps Clay and company can get after Eli on Sunday.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Because it's not the TT way. To hell with winning if you can't do it Ted's way.

Or it could be that a 35 yr old CB who tore his ACL in week 17 last season and hasn't played or practiced since then isn't a good signing. But why bother with logic.

[Patler]

Or it could be that a 35 yr old CB who tore his ACL in week 17 last season and hasn't played or practiced since then isn't a good signing. But why bother with logic.

I had forgotten about the surgery. He is not even a year past his surgery date yet, and turns 36 in February. It seems unlikely he would offer much help right now.

[Maxie the Taxi]

There aren't any veteran FA cornerbacks who can play man coverage available for emergency duty?

Antonio Cromartie? Cortez Allen? Anybody?

[hoosier]

Cromartie is available, and so is Cortland Finnegan. Not clear if either of them have anything left to offer. Cromartie got cut in October by Colts, but that was after he refused to stand for the national anthem, something that didn't play well in conservative Indy or with the drug-addled Irsay.

[Rutnstrut]

Or it could be that a 35 yr old CB who tore his ACL in week 17 last season and hasn't played or practiced since then isn't a good signing. But why bother with logic.

It wouldn't have to be him, but for christ sake they need someone besides the jag from the PS.

[Rutnstrut]

There aren't any veteran FA cornerbacks who can play man coverage available for emergency duty?

Antonio Cromartie? Cortez Allen? Anybody?

Sure there are, but as I said. That's not Teddy's way.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Cromartie is available, and so is Cortland Finnegan. Not clear if either of them have anything left to offer. Cromartie got cut in October by Colts, but that was after he refused to stand for the national anthem, something that didn't play well in conservative Indy or with the drug-addled Irsay.Seriously, you'd think some of these guys would have been called in for a tryout weeks ago considering the injury status of our secondary. If all these vets have to offer is experience, that's more in my book than raw, untested talent.

[Patler]

There aren't any veteran FA cornerbacks who can play man coverage available for emergency duty?

Antonio Cromartie? Cortez Allen? Anybody?

I'm not surprised if there isn't vet help available at CB. Every team can use a CB better than some they have. No one has all that much depth. Many teams lack decent starters. In the off season you might find a vet who is a FA and can still play. I suspect most vets still available now don't have much to offer. Cromartie was released by the Colts after the first month of the season. Allen hasn't played for two years. The Steelers paid him an awful lot of many on a contract extension, then released him a year later, taking a significant cap hit. It seems no one has touched him since. Again, everyone needs more and better CBs, but no one has taken him for two years.

CB is such a premium position, I really doubt there is much veteran help out there, unless there is a veteran who retired while still playing well. But he would have had to retire at the end of his contract to be a FA. If he retired before his contract was up, his rights would be with the team he last played for, assuming they put him on the retired/reserve list. Can't work out any type of deal with the former team, the trade deadline has passed.

Too many teams are playing with inadequate CBs for me to hold out much hope of a good vet being out there somewhere.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I'm not surprised if there isn't vet help available at CB. Every team can use a CB better than some they have. No one has all that much depth. Many teams lack decent starters. In the off season you might find a vet who is a FA and can still play. I suspect most vets still available now don't have much to offer. Cromartie was released by the Colts after the first month of the season. Allen hasn't played for two years. The Steelers paid him an awful lot of many on a contract extension, then released him a year later, taking a significant cap hit. It seems no one has touched him since. Again, everyone needs more and better CBs, but no one has taken him for two years.

CB is such a premium position, I really doubt there is much veteran help out there, unless there is a veteran who retired while still playing well. But he would have had to retire at the end of his contract to be a FA. If he retired before his contract was up, his rights would be with the team he last played for, assuming they put him on the retired/reserve list. Can't work out any type of deal with the former team, the trade deadline has passed.

Too many teams are playing with inadequate CBs for me to hold out much hope of a good vet being out there somewhere.All that is obvious. If it's true, so be it. I'm trying to decide whether there is no one available or whether TT is just not looking. At least a vet is a known quantity. Right now our entire post season might rest on the shoulders of a couple of kids who have never played a snap in the NFL, let alone the playoffs, one of which is a converted WR.

That's scary stuff IMO.

[Zool]

Any GM not constantly looking is not doing their job. Look at the RB situation this year. He brought in quite a few guys for workouts, signed a few of them too. Even sorta traded for one. Don't you think other teams in the playoffs could use some vet depth at CB? So either TT, and 11 other GMs, aren't looking or there's not much available on the scrap heap. Maybe all GMs hate to win so they are ignoring soft spots on the rosters?

Maybe Detroit's GM is just as lazy and cheap as TT, because their DB situation is worse than the Packers.

[pbmax]

Sure there are, but as I said. That's not Teddy's way.

Names.

[Patler]

Any GM not constantly looking is not doing their job. Look at the RB situation this year. He brought in quite a few guys for workouts, signed a few of them too. Even sorta traded for one. Don't you think other teams in the playoffs could use some vet depth at CB? So either TT, and 11 other GMs, aren't looking or there's not much available on the scrap heap. Maybe all GMs hate to win so they are ignoring soft spots on the rosters?

Maybe Detroit's GM is just as lazy and cheap as TT, because their DB situation is worse than the Packers.

When you stop and think about it, teams can easily give significant playing time to at least 96 CBs and reasonable playing time to a 4th on each team, for a total of 128 corners, You have the scouts from 32 teams looking to file those spots, and some teams are extremely weak even at the #2 CB, if not their #1, let alone #3 or #4.

I'm not surprised if the only real option is convincing a retired CB to come back for a few games, but then you have to wonder how physically and mentally ready he would be after willingly retiring.

I seriously doubt the Packers want to play Herb Waters at this point. I'm not surprised if they think he is their best option because he is young, athletic and at least knows what they want.

[vince]

http://prod.static.packers.clubs.nfl.com//assets/images/imported/GB/photos/persons/staff-cards/Wolf_Eliot.jpg


Eliot Wolf enters his 13th season with the Packers and first as the director-football operations after being promoted on March 21, 2016. Prior to his current role, Wolf spent the 2015 season as the team’s director of player personnel after spending the previous three seasons as the team’s director of pro personnel.

During the season, he is responsible for overseeing advance scouting of upcoming Packers opponents, evaluating potential free-agent signees and recommending player tryouts.
Thompson has said that they maintain an extensive board, similar to a draft board, of current players and free agents, including practice squad players at all positions and from all teams who are constantly evaluated and value-tiered for possible tryouts, acquisitions, etc. Every player on every team and every possible free agent is analyzed and considered on an ongoing basis.

[Maxie the Taxi]

^^^I hope someone is covering for Wolf while he spends the week interviewing for another job. :-)

[hoosier]

Relax, Maxie, the current plan is to go with the amoeba defense featuring 5 safeties with Gunter and Randall if he's still in one piece. We don't need no stinkin corners.

[vince]

Yeah hopefully he's not sabotaging the board... :-)

My understanding is the Niners are coming to GB today for interviews with Gutekunst and Wolf.

Gutekunst's new title is Director of Player Personnel, which would seem to overlap with Wolf's description. His background has been far more focused in the college scouting ranks than pro personnel though. Not sure what that says, other than I'd think college scouting would be far more speculative and imprecise than pro personnel evaluation.

Then there's this guy too.
http://prod.static.packers.clubs.nfl.com//assets/images/imported/GB/photos/persons/staff-cards/Terry_Tim.jpg
Terry’s primary duties are scouting professional prospects in the NFL, CFL and Arena Football League, working under Executive Vice President, General Manager and Director of Football Operations Ted Thompson. He also is involved with in-season advance scouting of upcoming Packers opponents.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Any GM not constantly looking is not doing their job. Look at the RB situation this year. He brought in quite a few guys for workouts, signed a few of them too. Even sorta traded for one. Don't you think other teams in the playoffs could use some vet depth at CB? So either TT, and 11 other GMs, aren't looking or there's not much available on the scrap heap. Maybe all GMs hate to win so they are ignoring soft spots on the rosters?

Maybe Detroit's GM is just as lazy and cheap as TT, because their DB situation is worse than the Packers.Gee, maybe he should have "sorta traded" for a vet CB...about two months ago. You can't tell me there were no vet CB's in the league available for trade. :-)

[Maxie the Taxi]

Relax, Maxie, the current plan is to go with the amoeba defense featuring 5 safeties with Gunter and Randall if he's still in one piece. We don't need no stinkin corners. I am R--E--L--A--X--E--D--!!!!!! You should see me when I got my dander up. :-)

[Zool]

Gee, maybe he should have "sorta traded" for a vet CB...about two months ago. You can't tell me there were no vet CB's in the league available for trade. :-)

Did Detroit trade for any? Actually did anyone trade for any?

Edit: Detroit did trade for a DB. Johnthan Banks

Here's the whole list of trades for the entire 2016 season.

http://nfltraderumors.co/list-completed-2016-nfl-trades/

Quite the list.

[vince]

Gee, maybe he should have "sorta traded" for a vet CB...about two months ago. You can't tell me there were no vet CB's in the league available for trade. :-)
There were no vet CB's in the league available for trade.

[Maxie the Taxi]

There were no vet CB's in the league available for trade.The Browns wouldn't have traded Tramon back to us, say halfway through the season?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Did Detroit trade for any? Actually did anyone trade for any?

Edit: Detroit did trade for a DB. Johnthan Banks

Here's the whole list of trades for the entire 2016 season.

http://nfltraderumors.co/list-completed-2016-nfl-trades/

Quite the list.Sorry for thinking out of the box.

[beveaux1]

Did Detroit trade for any? Actually did anyone trade for any?

Edit: Detroit did trade for a DB. Johnthan Banks

Here's the whole list of trades for the entire 2016 season.

http://nfltraderumors.co/list-completed-2016-nfl-trades/

Quite the list.

Waters and Hawkins look to be every bit as good (or bad) as the few that were traded. Vince makes a great point about the number of CBs needed in the league. There's just not that many available. That's why a #1 corner like Shields is such a luxury and why our pass defense has been dramatically worse this year compared to years past.

[beveaux1]

I'm sorry. I should have credited Patler with the number of CBs needed by teams in the league.

[esoxx]

There aren't any veteran FA cornerbacks who can play man coverage available for emergency duty?

Antonio Cromartie? Cortez Allen? Anybody?

Bring black Mac!!!

[vince]

The Browns wouldn't have traded Tramon back to us, say halfway through the season?
At least you have a suggestion...
Tramon became a $7 million benchwarmer this year for the 31st ranked defense that gave up more TD passes than every other team in the league. And his benchwarming cap hit is $7.5 mil next year.

Plus he had foot problems early in the year. I'd guess the Browns would have LOVED to get out from under that non-performing, overaged, overpaid, no contact, damaged goods, bad free agent contract. Taking on these kind of deals is what makes the Browns the Browns and the Vikings trophy case collecting cobwebs.

I'll take Hyde, Brice, Evans, Gunter, Randall, Rollins and Burnett in the slot all day at this point over non-performing expensive has-beens.

You gotta love Tramon for what he did for the Packers but those days are gone - except that the Browns are still paying the piper - for what he did in Green Bay no less.

[Maxie the Taxi]

At least you have a suggestion...
Tramon became a $7 million benchwarmer this year for the 31st ranked defense that gave up more TD passes than every other team in the league. And his benchwarming cap hit is $7.5 mil next year.

Plus he had foot problems early in the year. I'd guess the Browns would have LOVED to get out from under that non-performing, overaged, overpaid, no contact, damaged goods, bad free agent contract. Taking on these kind of deals is what makes the Browns the Browns and the Vikings trophy case collecting cobwebs.

I'll take Hyde, Brice, Evans, Gunter, Randall, Rollins and Burnett in the slot all day at this point over non-performing expensive has-beens.

You gotta love Tramon for what he did for the Packers but those days are gone - except that the Browns are still paying the piper - for what he did in Green Bay no less.You convinced me, Vince. I trust you know what you're talking about. Accordingly, I will not back off of my Nov. 28 prediction that the Packers will win the Super Bowl this year!

Go Pack Go!!!!!!!!!! :cow:

[pbmax]

How the Giants can defeat the Packers D without needing to find Eli Miracle Manning.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2685167-eli-manning-must-deliver-more-than-one-liners-to-get-the-giants-past-the-packers

Short version: change entire offense.

Bonus McCarthy coaching tree: McAdoo does not have their bad TEs stay in to pass block much. Perry/Matthews/Pepper/Jones/Eliot/Fuckdoggle should have a field day with their bad tackles/

[pbmax]

Pansy assed, no outdoor practice, no hitting, no tackling, soft 'n small Packers practiced outside today. Weather in GB was -1/-17.

[vince]

That sounds encouraging. They've beaten some good teams despite their shortcomings on offense. I think they'll try to control the clock and keep the game close.

The Packers getting out to their patented 1st half lead and forcing the Giants to try to do what they haven't done very well seems like a good prescription for success.

[pbmax]

McCarthy is feeling his oats today:

http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/McCarthy-on-Waters-Hes-earned-this-opportunity/9869ab21-1610-4c48-8314-df90c1fac873?campaign=sf49601511_TW_C-Content-GB_CT-press+conference-GB_sf49601511

[Zool]

McCarthy is feeling his oats today:

http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/McCarthy-on-Waters-Hes-earned-this-opportunity/9869ab21-1610-4c48-8314-df90c1fac873?campaign=sf49601511_TW_C-Content-GB_CT-press+conference-GB_sf49601511

At least it's not a video of him sowing his oats.

[Freak Out]

Who is going to the game? Have a spare ticket? I'm thinking of flying down if I can work something out. Ticketmaster sucks so many balls.

[pbmax]

"You don't put people on the 53 if you don't think they can contribute to the 46 (game day actives)." - M3 speaking about promoting Herb

Pretty sure they have carried some O lineman that they did not really want to play on the 46 before. But regardless, he is sidestepping the question a bit about bringing Waters up versus any alternatives.

[Maxie the Taxi]

But regardless, he is sidestepping the question a bit about bringing Waters up versus any alternatives.pb, you haven't been paying attention. There are NO alternatives.:)

[texaspackerbacker]

I kinda liked that amoeba thing. That was essentially a zone, right? Or at least a partial zone over the top? Having man coverage on 3 wideouts, 2 safeties over the top, Thomas or Martinez in man coverage on the TE and another LB if the RB goes out, all that doesn't leave very many people to put pressure on Eli, but it might be necessary to stop them.

The thing I like about the zone is it puts pressure on the QB to think - think fast if you have a pass rush. Eli doesn't seem to me to be too bright. He will panic; He will throw picks; He kinda reminds me of Cutler. Eli has played good games, but I've seen him stink it up more often than not. If we just don't give him easy targets and maybe get just a little bit of pressure on him with a minimum of people, I think he will give us some gifts.

Make it happen, Dom.

[vince]

pb, you haven't been paying attention. There are NO alternatives.:)
No better alternatives in the experience and opinion of the Packers front office and coaching staff.

I didn't see McCarthy sidestepping any questions though. Perhaps you can expand on that PB?

I thought he unequivocably said that they're convinced that Herb Waters, who has been practicing, meeting and learning with the team all year, has earned his opportunity to be promoted and they feel he's their best option to replace Dorleant's roster spot.

He also commented on how they maintain their board of available players and conduct workouts every Tuesday for evaluations. If they thought there was a better option available, they'd have made it.

He also intimated that Waters probably won't make the game-day roster, so they're likely going to dress Hawkins for emergency duty and go with Gunter, Randall, and Hyde, with Burnett inside and Brice at nickel safety and Evans added in dime.

The way this game figures to play out that doesn't seem too bad. That's how they ended the Detroit game and that crew held up better than with Rollins in the game.

[Fritz]

You really have to kind of laugh about how we respond to certain situations.

The #3 back, Crockett, was lost for the year. Then Starks gets hurt, then Lacy goes out, comes back, goes out again, Starks comes back, is ineffective. Fans excorciate Thompson for not having the foresight to get better depth. Damn you, Ted! Couldn't you see the future? Why didn't you trade for a running back, or sign someone who looked promising for a while for someone else? Oh, wait. You did. And it turns out your best option was already on your roster.

Okay, never mind. Crickets on that situation now.

Before the year began, we were all crowing about the Packers having one of the deepest secondaries in the league. For corners, you had Shields, Randall, Rollins, Gunther, Hyde, and these two promising rookies, Dorleant and Hawkins. Six guys!!

Now, Shields is done for the year, Randall has been hurt - different injuries - and has not progressed as hoped. Certainly Rollins has not progressed as hoped, and now he's done. So two of your top three corners are hurting, one gone for the season, the other missing games while getting groin surgery. Then your #3 corner goes out at the last game of the regular season, and so does one of those promising deep-backup guys.

And what do we do? We get on this board and complain that, by golly, Thompson shoulda seen this coming! Why didn't he trade for a vet a few months ago! Peanut Tillman! Tramon Williams! Somebody, anybody! Ted's not doing his job because we all know he hates signing free agents or making trades!

On another note, Vince, regarding PB's idea of MM sidestepping, I interpreted that to mean that PB believes that the Packers are carrying Kyle Murphy on the 53, hoping to goodness he won't be needed cuz he's not ready to play.

[scharpcheddar]

Packers have no defense. Packers lose by 10 or worse

[Bretsky]

You really have to kind of laugh about how we respond to certain situations.

The #3 back, Crockett, was lost for the year. Then Starks gets hurt, then Lacy goes out, comes back, goes out again, Starks comes back, is ineffective. Fans excorciate Thompson for not having the foresight to get better depth. Damn you, Ted! Couldn't you see the future? Why didn't you trade for a running back, or sign someone who looked promising for a while for someone else? Oh, wait. You did. And it turns out your best option was already on your roster.

Okay, never mind. Crickets on that situation now.

Before the year began, we were all crowing about the Packers having one of the deepest secondaries in the league. For corners, you had Shields, Randall, Rollins, Gunther, Hyde, and these two promising rookies, Dorleant and Hawkins. Six guys!!

Now, Shields is done for the year, Randall has been hurt - different injuries - and has not progressed as hoped. Certainly Rollins has not progressed as hoped, and now he's done. So two of your top three corners are hurting, one gone for the season, the other missing games while getting groin surgery. Then your #3 corner goes out at the last game of the regular season, and so does one of those promising deep-backup guys.

And what do we do? We get on this board and complain that, by golly, Thompson shoulda seen this coming! Why didn't he trade for a vet a few months ago! Peanut Tillman! Tramon Williams! Somebody, anybody! Ted's not doing his job because we all know he hates signing free agents or making trades!

On another note, Vince, regarding PB's idea of MM sidestepping, I interpreted that to mean that PB believes that the Packers are carrying Kyle Murphy on the 53, hoping to goodness he won't be needed cuz he's not ready to play.

CROCKETT........YUK
D JACKSON.......YUK

I can't criticize TT for the secondary; too much there. But I'd take Tillman if he's out there over some of the muck that will be playing this weekend FWIW. I don't even know if he's available for free to be honest. But I'm not blaming the turtle for not making a trade

[Fritz]

I hate to say it but I agree with you, sharpcheddar. I think the Giants' secondary will blanket the Packers' receivers, and we'll all be wondering why the hell they can't get open while Rodgers dances around forever and ends up sacked. On offense, the Giants will run the ball and run the ball and control the clock, and the Packer defense will be unable to stop it.

[Maxie the Taxi]

You really have to kind of laugh about how we respond to certain situations.Yeah. Fan talk is like bar talk. Everybody's an expert and nobody's shy about giving an opinion or making a wise crack. You know what they say about opinions. Anyway, it's an interesting way to spend time between games. And it's about as serious as this weekend's round of golf in your regular foursome. Yeah, you gotta laugh.

[gbgary]

I hate to say it but I agree with you, sharpcheddar. I think the Giants' secondary will blanket the Packers' receivers, and we'll all be wondering why the hell they can't get open while Rodgers dances around forever and ends up sacked. On offense, the Giants will run the ball and run the ball and control the clock, and the Packer defense will be unable to stop it.

that's why they'll have to go with the short/quick stuff.

they haven't run on anyone all year.

[texaspackerbacker]

I hate to say it but I agree with you, sharpcheddar. I think the Giants' secondary will blanket the Packers' receivers, and we'll all be wondering why the hell they can't get open while Rodgers dances around forever and ends up sacked. On offense, the Giants will run the ball and run the ball and control the clock, and the Packer defense will be unable to stop it.

I hate to say it also, but this sounds like a very likely way things could go. Just the same, I think Aaron Rodgers will find a way to make plays and beat the Giants D. I also think Capers will pull some kind of rabbit out of the hat and stop whatever without giving up too much of whatever else.

[bobblehead]

How the Giants can defeat the Packers D without needing to find Eli Miracle Manning.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2685167-eli-manning-must-deliver-more-than-one-liners-to-get-the-giants-past-the-packers

Short version: change entire offense.

Bonus McCarthy coaching tree: McAdoo does not have their bad TEs stay in to pass block much. Perry/Matthews/Pepper/Jones/Eliot/Fuckdoggle should have a field day with their bad tackles/

Come on fuckdoggle. We need to hit Eli early and often.

[bobblehead]

Pansy assed, no outdoor practice, no hitting, no tackling, soft 'n small Packers practiced outside today. Weather in GB was -1/-17.

Oh, he learned over the years that practicing outdoors for this game is a must. Now if he can learn to not take his foot off the gas.

[pbmax]

pb, you haven't been paying attention. There are NO alternatives.:)

:D

He did, eventually, get around to the actual answer, that they are always updating their board, at least weekly, of available vets with tryouts and other research on the pro personnel side.

But he never answered the part about his preference or the difference between promoting the young versus signing a vet. This was after Pro Football Talk had an article about how the GM position could be affected by Wolf leaving, and in it they brought up the reports from last year by McGinn of friction between Thompson and McCarthy over free agency.

Its odd for a highly successful coach, who supposedly has a huge beef with his GM, to miss an opportunity to point out how shorthanded they are.

[pbmax]

No better alternatives in the experience and opinion of the Packers front office and coaching staff.

I didn't see McCarthy sidestepping any questions though. Perhaps you can expand on that PB?

I thought he unequivocably said that they're convinced that Herb Waters, who has been practicing, meeting and learning with the team all year, has earned his opportunity to be promoted and they feel he's their best option to replace Dorleant's roster spot.

He also commented on how they maintain their board of available players and conduct workouts every Tuesday for evaluations. If they thought there was a better option available, they'd have made it.

He also intimated that Waters probably won't make the game-day roster, so they're likely going to dress Hawkins for emergency duty and go with Gunter, Randall, and Hyde, with Burnett inside and Brice at nickel safety and Evans added in dime.

The way this game figures to play out that doesn't seem too bad. That's how they ended the Detroit game and that crew held up better than with Rollins in the game.

vince, see my above to Maxie. He just sidestepped the part about his preference between vet versus young player on PS. I found that odd for a coach who is supposed to have a beef with his GM over player acquisition.

[pbmax]

On another note, Vince, regarding PB's idea of MM sidestepping, I interpreted that to mean that PB believes that the Packers are carrying Kyle Murphy on the 53, hoping to goodness he won't be needed cuz he's not ready to play.

Murphy is a good example. Not sure he has been active at all this year. And they have stashed guys before, including Callahan now if I am not mistaken. But often its a developing O lineman.

[vince]

Gotcha thanks PB. I think he was taking the opportunity to support his guy and build up Herb's confidence rather than tearing down the dearth of available free agents and the out-of-league over-the-hill gang - which indirectly criticizes his new guy. If they think Herb has potential for continued future development, there's every reason in the world to make this move for him.

His comment about not putting guys on the 53 unless they're ready to contribute on the 46 was in the same vein but I agree that was a bit of a slip because it's clear they stash developmental prospects there to protect them from pilferage by other teams.

[vince]

vince, see my above to Maxie. He just sidestepped the part about his preference between vet versus young player on PS. I found that odd for a coach who is supposed to have a beef with his GM over player acquisition.
OK now I get you. It's possible. It's obviously unrealistic to think or expect Ted and Mike to always agree behind closed doors, but I think it's a bigger stretch to interpret that occuring now as opposed to last year when they had no vertical threat with all the skill position injuries (and no TE threat) to open things up for the O.

[mission]

Now if he can learn to not take his foot off the gas.

Honestly, this is actually the one thing that gives me some hope heading into the playoffs. I've largely been a "fire MM" guy because he hasn't seen what's been so obvious to us. Letting his foot off the gas, going into turtle mode. We can go on and on down the list of games where this has led to a loss or a much closer game than it should have been.

We didn't see that against the Lions at the end (besides the hail mary and not kneeling the ball) and I'm praying that he's finally come to his senses on how to close out a game offensively.

[Guiness]

Murphy is a good example. Not sure he has been active at all this year. And they have stashed guys before, including Callahan now if I am not mistaken. But often its a developing O lineman.

How is Atlas Herrion doing? :-)

Did he ever play a down in the NFL?

[Pugger]

The Browns wouldn't have traded Tramon back to us, say halfway through the season?

Is Tramon today better than the young players presently on our roster?

[pbmax]

Honestly, this is actually the one thing that gives me some hope heading into the playoffs. I've largely been a "fire MM" guy because he hasn't seen what's been so obvious to us. Letting his foot off the gas, going into turtle mode. We can go on and on down the list of games where this has led to a loss or a much closer game than it should have been.

We didn't see that against the Lions at the end (besides the hail mary and not kneeling the ball) and I'm praying that he's finally come to his senses on how to close out a game offensively.

In a weird and bad way, not kneeling might have been a sign that he wanted a first down? I don't know, handing the ball back to the Lions with 10 seconds on the clock and down 2 scores is one time you WANT your foot off the pedal.

[3irty1]

I think the condition of the secondary is forcing MM's hand a bit. He's in a 2011 headspace where he needs to play defense with offense.

It takes a lot to shake MM's faith in his team. How many coaches would have ridden out Mason Crosby's shit streak? I think this is the source of MM's end-of-game routine. When your prevent defense contains the entirety of your duct-taped secondary, even MM has to have his reservations about relying on them to close a game.

[pbmax]

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 20m20 minutes ago
Cobb had good day yesterday. Making progress. Played well first game against Giants. "Would be great to have him to ready."

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 36m36 minutes ago
"Coldest ever" MM says of practice. "I didn't realize it was that cold."

Michael Cohen ‏@Michael_Cohen13 36m36 minutes ago
McCarthy said yesterday's practice was "the coldest ever, that was the consensus." Didn't realize it was so bad until they got outside.

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 35m35 minutes ago
Fullback-friendly offense: "Easy to fall in love" with a one-back offense but likes the flexibility of a two-back scheme.

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 34m34 minutes ago
McCarthy on Julius Peppers being playoff captain again: Shows you the impact he has on our locker room...When he speaks, everybody listens.

Packer Report ‏@PackerReport 33m33 minutes ago
MM on playoff captains; "You put more on their plate." Stakes are higher.

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 34m34 minutes ago
McCarthy: When we go with the 6 playoff captains, there's more responsibility as far as who speaks to the team & turning things up a notch.

JS Comments ‏@JSComments 9m9 minutes ago
TT picked Rodgers to stick it to Favre and TT ended up getting it right despite himself, or by accident!

Green Bay Packers ‏@packers 12m12 minutes ago
McCarthy: "When Julius Peppers speaks, everybody listens."

"DATE A MODEL"

http://www.rantsports.com/clubhouse/files/2014/04/1795785_589283284500440_771766078_n.jpg

[Pugger]

Packers have no defense. Packers lose by 10 or worse

The Gmen have no offense so we should outscore NJ anyway.

[Pugger]

I hate to say it but I agree with you, sharpcheddar. I think the Giants' secondary will blanket the Packers' receivers, and we'll all be wondering why the hell they can't get open while Rodgers dances around forever and ends up sacked. On offense, the Giants will run the ball and run the ball and control the clock, and the Packer defense will be unable to stop it.

JJP isn't playing so perhaps they won't sack Rodgers like you suggest. The Gmen aren't all that hot at running the ball and Eli is inconsistent as hell.

[pbmax]

I think the condition of the secondary is forcing MM's hand a bit. He's in a 2011 headspace where he needs to play defense with offense.

It takes a lot to shake MM's faith in his team. How many coaches would have ridden out Mason Crosby's shit streak? I think this is the source of MM's end-of-game routine. When your prevent defense contains the entirety of your duct-taped secondary, even MM has to have his reservations about relying on them to close a game.

He always goes into the game thinking his guys will deliver. You have to be that Vikings defense with the Williams Wall or the NE Patriots to make him plan differently.

Seriously, I even like most of his faults.

[hoosier]

Is anyone else thinking to themselves that they kindof like the Packers better with Geronimo in place of Cobb and the amoeba in place of Randall/Rollins?

[pbmax]

Is anyone else thinking to themselves that they kindof like the Packers better with Geronimo in place of Cobb and the amoeba in place of Randall/Rollins?

I like the amoeba and 2 deep safeties if there is no pass rush. Bleed slowly.

[pbmax]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000770369/article/nfc-wild-card-primer-giants-vs-packers-on-sunday

Didn't like this write up at all.

[vince]

Is anyone else thinking to themselves that they kindof like the Packers better with Geronimo in place of Cobb and the amoeba in place of Randall/Rollins?
Cobb seems to be suffering from Fan WhatHaveYouDoneForMeLately Syndrome.

Allison's been a great addition, particularly when Cobb's been gimpy with the high ankle sprain but if Cobb's healthy he's definitely part of the solution. A lot of Allison's success is due to his reliability but it also may have something to do with sneaking up on teams who are putting their best guys and scheming toward the other known quantities on offense.

In the end, they're different players who bring different threats utilized in different situations...

With regard to the defense, yeah at this point Hyde's an upgrade over Rollins on the perimeter. Rollins' game has always been better suited for being inside . I also like Brice's skills on the back-end so as long as he's not biting on crossing routes under and getting beat over the top - which he hasn't been - that puts Burnett in a better position to fit his skillset too.

[pbmax]

I am not sure Hyde will prove to be an upgrade over Rollins outside for long. He is a safety/CB hybrid and his coverage is already a bit suspect inside. Rollins is better fit inside, but unlike Hyde and safety, his second best position is outside CB.

We'll see. He can man handle receivers unlike TEs a bit, so he might be effective, but I think its a short time before offenses, coordinators and WRs figure him out.

[pbmax]

Zach Kruse @zachkruse2
Jeff Janis did not receive an All-Pro vote.

[pbmax]

Tretter back to full health.

Might never return to Packers, position unknown, and there are several veterans who must be cut because their cap number is some arbitrary amount too high.

Also, the Packers have too much cap room.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/01/06/free-agency-looms-tretter-reaches-full-strength/96246722/

[vince]

Giants defense has become elite but I just think the Packers match up well with them.

Philly and Pittsburgh were the two teams to beat G-Men in their last 11 games. They were successful by getting an early lead and finishing the game despite being outscored in the 2nd half - forcing the Giants battle against the clock and do what the Giants don't do well - just as is the Packer way.

Philly got out to a 21-6 first-half lead and won 24-19. Pittsburgh led 14-0 at the half and won 24-14.

It's too bad the only two teams to beat the Giants in their last 11 took their foot off the gas and lost the 2nd half. Buncha turtles. That's no way to win games.

[vince]

I am not sure Hyde will prove to be an upgrade over Rollins outside for long. He is a safety/CB hybrid and his coverage is already a bit suspect inside. Rollins is better fit inside, but unlike Hyde and safety, his second best position is outside CB.

We'll see. He can man handle receivers unlike TEs a bit, so he might be effective, but I think its a short time before offenses, coordinators and WRs figure him out.
Rollins has proven to be a liability outside. He's short-area quick with good ball skills and instincts but not tall or physical enough to be too slow to cover deep.

Gunter's slow too but his size and physicality help him cover outside - most of the time anyway.

Hyde isn't fast enough either but he can be more physical too, as was the case against Tate. Hopefully. I'm not saying he's the answer by any stretch but I think he'll be as good as Rollins - which is still a liability they have to figure out how to cover up.

[pbmax]

Rollins has proven to be a liability outside. He's short-area quick with good ball skills and instincts but not tall or physical enough to be too slow to cover deep.

Gunter's slow too but his size and physicality help him cover outside - most of the time anyway.

Hyde isn't fast enough either but he can be more physical too, as was the case against Tate. Hopefully. I'm not saying he's the answer by any stretch but I think he'll be as good as Rollins - which is still a liability they have to figure out how to cover up.

OK, but that physicality lets you cover a 10 yard back shoulder throw, not gonna work when they go deep.

Hyde is no outside corner at all. Packers will be in 2 deep to help.

[pbmax]

Rob Demovsky @RobDemovsky
Aaron Rodgers did not make the AP All-Pro team after finishing third in the voting behind Altanta's Matt Ryan... http://es.pn/2jcigEf

Rob Demovsky ‏@RobDemovsky 11m11 minutes ago
Rob Demovsky Retweeted Rob Demovsky
AP All-Pro QB voting:
Matt Ryan (29 votes)
Tom Brady (15)
Aaron Rodgers (5)
Derek Carr (1)

If only Eli had managed to get votes ahead of Rodgers, I would predict an epic beatdown.

[texaspackerbacker]

Is anyone else thinking to themselves that they kindof like the Packers better with Geronimo in place of Cobb and the amoeba in place of Randall/Rollins?

I'll second that emotion.

[pbmax]

Gil Brandt ‏@Gil_Brandt 1h1 hour ago
Packers had more wins against teams in this year's playoffs (5) than any other playoff participant. Titans (not in playoffs) also went 5-2.

Of course two of them were versus the Lions.

[vince]

OK, but that physicality lets you cover a 10 yard back shoulder throw, not gonna work when they go deep.

Hyde is no outside corner at all. Packers will be in 2 deep to help.
Can't disagree with that other than to say there are tricks that unfast vets like Sherman, Al Harris and the like have up their sleeve to force guys off fly routes, cause them to shuffle-step and/or squeeze them to the sideline while turning to look for the ball to help them stay close and not get called for a penalty. Guys who are good at it can and do get away with a lot of contact downfield.

Again everyone prefers speed but lanky physical (and slower) guys sometimes have some techniques/tricks that can work.

Rollins has consistently been victimized by the similar techniques/tricks that WR's use to get separation. Not only is he not fast but he gets pushed around by receivers downfield.

[pbmax]

Jason Wilde ‏@jasonjwilde 3m3 minutes ago
#Packers have officially ruled CB Quinten Rollins out for Sunday.

[swede]

JJP isn't playing so perhaps they won't sack Rodgers like you suggest. The Gmen aren't all that hot at running the ball and Eli is inconsistent as hell.

It is the inconsistent part that bothers me. Usually he is just okay. Sometimes he is a killer. I wish he were more consistently meh.

The cold playoff loss in GB he dropped pass after pass in exactly the right spot. I thought our DBs were great in that game, but the explosive pass plays were inches over the defenders' hands and inches within bounds.

[Fritz]

I keep reading too that the Giants' running game is getting better and better.

[Zool]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000768204/article/2016-nfl-playoffs-steelers-packers-scary-raiders-lions-flawed?campaign=tw-nf-sf49683170-sf49683170


Green Bay is 10-1 when allowing fewer than 30 points this season. Read that again: The Pack is 10-1 when ALLOWING FEWER THAN 30.

[pbmax]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1g4R29VIAACMwN.jpg:large

[pbmax]

It is the inconsistent part that bothers me. Usually he is just okay. Sometimes he is a killer. I wish he were more consistently meh.

The cold playoff loss in GB he dropped pass after pass in exactly the right spot. I thought our DBs were great in that game, but the explosive pass plays were inches over the defenders' hands and inches within bounds.


I keep reading too that the Giants' running game is getting better and better.

The Packers are capable of making bad QBs look good, but Eli has not been his previous self. Even by his own middling standards, he has been terrible this year.

Fitz, their rush offense is worse than their pass offense. Passing in 21st in DVOA at Football Outsider. Rush game is 26th. Packers are 7th and 5th after being in neutral at the beginning of the season.

Pack's defense is 22nd versus pass, 14th versus run.

[vince]

The Packers are 10-1 when they hold their opponent to under 30 points.
and 0-5 when they don't.

It's a good stat but I'd say it's not relevant to this week's game.

The Giants haven't scored 30 points in a game all year, nor have they given up 30. Giants have the 2nd best scoring defense in the league and they're likely to place an even higher focus to doing everything they can to keep the ball away from Rodgers, milk clock and keep the score down.

And given the Packers defensive backfield woes, they'll likely oblige them by playing soft and try to protect against big plays. Getting a lead, stopping the run (they ran it 40 times for 161 yards last week and controlled the game from the outset) and pressuring Manning will go a long way.

This week I'm guessing the magic number is 25.

[vince]

They've found their running game with Perkins as the horse of late, which plays into their style of winning with defense. At minimum they've found a commitment to running it.

They've gone over 100 yards rushing in 6 of their last 8 games. One of their sub-100 yard games was in their win against Dallas when they ran it 33 times for 93 yards and held Dallas to 7 points. They were horrible running it in the first half of the year but that's changed.

The other game they were under 100 was against Pittsburgh who contrained them early, got out to a lead and forced them into playing catch-up. They only ran it 14 times in that game but they've committed to the run since then. Their other loss - to Philly - in which they got behind and had to play catch-up, they ran it 25 times for 118. Every other game since Pitt. they've run the ball 30+ times.

Hopefully they have limited success but I think they'll commit to running it 40 times unless the game dictates otherwise.

[pbmax]

They've found their running game with Perkins as the horse of late, which plays into their style of winning with defense. At minimum they've found a commitment to running it.

They've gone over 100 yards rushing in 6 of their last 8 games. One of their sub-100 yard games was in their win against Dallas when they ran it 33 times for 93 yards and held Dallas to 7 points. They were horrible running it in the first half of the year but that's changed.

Hopefully they have limited success but I think they'll commit to running it 40 times unless the game dictates otherwise.

That looks more like desperation than success. 2.81 yards per carry means they ran regardless of success.

In those last eight games, they were 200 for 744 and an average of 3.72. That is putrid. They are all defense.

That said, Packers D can make anyone look good if it gets away from them. A lead would be great early.

[3irty1]

14th against the run seems terrible considering how dominant we were to begin the season. Although my sniff test says we're still decent against the run when we need to be.

[vince]

I agree their offense sucks but I'd equate desperation to trying to win by taking risks not trying to exert control. As a result they try to complement their strong defense with a ball control offense.

Regardless of their average per carry it's clear they have committed to running it - particularly in the 2nd half of the season, and it has contributed to their winning forumula - Hold opponents down defensively and control the ball, with the occasional big play by OBJ mixed in.

If they're ahead they're going to run it even if it's not "working" from a ypc standpoint. Gaining over 100 yards while controlling clock and allowing their D to do it's thing has resulted in success for them.

[Fritz]

3irty1, better check your nose. Watch the mighty Zach Zenner rip holes through the middle of the line in the first half of the last game. I don't know why the Loins didn't keep doing that.

PB's right - that Packer defense can make anyone look good. And if you're keeping two safeties back to help out, you're not going to get much help from them. Ryan and Martinez are going to have to show up big, and let's pray Joe Thomas can play and be effective, too.

There's a lot of pressure on that Packer offense to get out front and keep scoring early. I just don't think it'll play out that way.

[HarveyWallbangers]

3irty1, better check your nose. Watch the mighty Zach Zenner rip holes through the middle of the line in the first half of the last game. I don't know why the Loins didn't keep doing that.

Didn't Zenner finish with 20 carries for like 69 yards... less than 3.5 yard/carry?

[vince]

For the year, the Giants rank 22nd in rushing attempts per game (24.8). In the last 4 games, the they rank 4th (32.3).

For the year, the Giants rank 29th in rushing yards per game (88.2). In the last 4 games, they rank 12th (129.7).

For the year, the Giants rank 29th in average time of possession (28.12). In the last 4 games, they are the league's best (33.24).

[vince]

Giants Defensive Rankings:

Points Allowed - 2nd (17.8)
1st Quarter Points Allowed - 25th (5.6)
2nd Quarter Points Allowed - 3rd (4.8)
3rd Quarter Points Allowed - 5th (3.1)
4th Quarter Points Allowed - 1st (4.2)

Rushing Yards Allowed - 4th (88.6)
Rushing Yards per Attempt - 2nd (3.6)

Passing Yards Allowed - 23rd (251.1)
Passing Yards per Attempt - 6th (6.4)

[Fritz]

For the year, the Giants rank 22nd in rushing attempts per game (24.8). In the last 4 games, the they rank 4th (32.3).

For the year, the Giants rank 29th in rushing yards per game (88.2). In the last 4 games, they rank 12th (129.7).

For the year, the Giants rank 29th in average time of possession (28.12). In the last 4 games, they are the league's best (33.24).


This post, and Vince's last post, should scare you. The Giants are for real.

Damn.

[vince]

They've definitely figured out how they can win.

When you look at some of those splits though, they're vulnerabilities are through the air and early in games. Those are the Packers' strengths. GB is 7th in the league in passing yards and 3rd in 1st half scoring.

If you don't get them early they've been tough to get at all with their defense and new-found ball control, so we'll see.

They've improved their scoring defense from 17.8 for the year down to 13.3 in the last 4. I'd attribute that to their offense doing a much better job of controlling the clock and reducing the number of plays opponents are able to run. In fact, they've gone from 29th ranked in Opponents Plays per Game (66.4) for the year to #1 (56.0) in the last 4 in that stat.

They've actually gotten worse in the last 4 in both rushing yards per attempt and passing yards per attempt. So it's not that their defense is more effective per play. It's that they've figured out how to hold their opponents to fewer plays and that is attributable to their running game. However effective it's been per play, they've eaten up clock and kept the ball away from opponents and it's worked. 10+ fewer plays by opponents equates to a sustained scoring drive and that's big.

I'm optimistic. They look/perform a lot like Seattle on D with less pass rush and a slightly more porous pass defense. Rodgers play of late tilts the field in this one.

[ThunderDan]

Look,at who they have played in the last few,weeks. Chicago, Det, Cle, Dallas, Phi, Wash.

Other than Dallas not a bunch of top flight teams.

[vince]

Look,at who they have played in the last few,weeks. Chicago, Det, Cle, Dallas, Phi, Wash.

Other than Dallas not a bunch of top flight teams.
Agreed. plus Pittsburgh was in there who beat them.

Overall, they played 7 teams who were 20th or lower in points scored, including both Cleveland and LA who were 31 and 32 respectively - plus Baltimore, Cincinnati and Minnesota on top of Detroit and Chicago who all struggled offensively this year.

Of those teams, only Minnesota beat them.

[vince]

The other side of that is they've won 9 of their last 11, and also have faced the Skins (1-1), Cowboys (2-0), Saints (W), Steelers (L) and Packers (L) who were all top 12.

Eagles (1-1) were middle of the road at 16th.

5-4 against good/decent offensive teams.
6-1 against bad offensive teams

4 of their 5 losses came on the road.

[Patler]

In the last six weeks, the Packers have scored:

31 on the #13 scoring defense.
38 on the #6 scoring defense.
30 on the #24 scoring defense.
38 on the #3 scoring defense.
21 on the #11 scoring defense.
27 on the #12 scoring defense.

The Giants have a good defense, but the Packers have shown they are capable of putting up a lot of points against some good defenses.

[texaspackerbacker]

This - and for that matter, any game - is a helluva lot more about how the Packers play than the opponent. Aaron Rodgers on his game and with his receivers getting even marginally open of course, will beat any defense. The Packers D is opportunistic, and Eli tends to screw up, especially when pressured.

I see the Packers as continuing their streak and winning this game - approximately the same kind of game as against Detroit, maybe easier.

[RashanGary]

These are two evenly matched teams. Home field gives the edge to Green Bay.

My son is a Giants fan. Were going to the game together at lambeau. I've been to cold games. I'm a northerner. I know how to dress. Can't wait!!!!!

I'm glad he gets the memory of being at a cold game at lambeau too. Every time he sees the breath on TV during cold games he'll know what it's like cuz he was there! Really cool memory!

[Pugger]

The Packers are capable of making bad QBs look good, but Eli has not been his previous self. Even by his own middling standards, he has been terrible this year.

Fitz, their rush offense is worse than their pass offense. Passing in 21st in DVOA at Football Outsider. Rush game is 26th. Packers are 7th and 5th after being in neutral at the beginning of the season.

Pack's defense is 22nd versus pass, 14th versus run.

14th? According to the stat page on nfl.com we are 8th.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2016&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

[vince]

He's using Football Outsiders' advanced statistics which take into account quality of opponent and I believe also weighs more recent performance more heavily as the season progresses.

[vince]

In the last six weeks, the Packers have scored:

31 on the #13 scoring defense.
38 on the #6 scoring defense.
30 on the #24 scoring defense.
38 on the #3 scoring defense.
21 on the #11 scoring defense.
27 on the #12 scoring defense.

The Giants have a good defense, but the Packers have shown they are capable of putting up a lot of points against some good defenses.
That Houston game in which the Packers were held to 21 points is the template for how the Giants want the game to go.

Rodgers fumbled at the 2 yard line in the first quarter (turnovers and/or serious pressure can affect Rodgers) and then the Texans managed to hold the Packers down to a 7-7 tie late into the third quarter by holding the Packers down (with 4 punts and a failed 4th down conversion) and controlling the clock through a balanced attack that wasn't overly productive but supported their defense. Then Rodgers finally was able to take control with a 98 yard TD drive late in the 3rd followed by an 89-yard TD drive in the 4th.

For the game, Houston won the ToP battle and held Green Bay to 56 offensive plays. It wasn't enough obviously, but it gave them a shot.

I think it will take an early turnover by the Packers and/or an early big play by the Giants offense for them to put themselves in position to make this game go how they want it to.

[Fritz]

I've been thinking about the old standby, turnovers, and how that might be the deciding factor. An early Packer turnover - any Packer turnover, but especially early - and it might be a long, long, frustrating day.

[pbmax]

These are two evenly matched teams. Home field gives the edge to Green Bay.


I could not disagree more. These are not evenly matched teams. The Giants have one path to success and that is protect their defense by playing ball control and field position. Packers have many more ways to beat them.

I also think Rodgers will be spitting fire after the All Pro voting.

[pbmax]

14th? According to the stat page on nfl.com we are 8th.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&defensiveStatisticCategory=RUSHING&conference=ALL&role=OPP&season=2016&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=RUSHING_YARDS_PER_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=1&d-447263-n=1

Football Outsiders ranking. Which takes into account the situation. If you run for 8 yards on a draw play on 3rd and fifteen, you get dinged for not being successful. If you run for 2 and get a first down on 3rd and 1, you are rewarded for successfully keep possession.

NFL's total yardage stats have a lot of garbage in them.

[pbmax]

He's using Football Outsiders' advanced statistics which take into account quality of opponent and I believe also weighs more recent performance more heavily as the season progresses.

They do this as well. Though when you drill down to run rank and pass rank, the success of the plays enters into it a bit more.

[vince]

What the Packers want to do (and do best) offensively - up-tempo quick-strike passing to score early and force opponent to play catch-up - is the best way to beat the Giants.

What the Giants want to do offensively - ball control through balanced attack to complement their defense and limit opponent opportunities - plays into the hands of the Packers defense.

I'm hoping Cook and Monty can have big days in the passing game because Jenkins and DRC might be tough against Nelson and Adams. I also expect the Giants to be aggressive and try to confuse GB with some exotic blitzes by Landon Collins and their fast linebacking corps.

The Giants want to run the ball but they're also not stupid. They'll test GB's DB's early to try to get the game in their favor.

The only kryptonite for Rodgers would be an early turnover or a punishing hit by Collins that makes him jumpy - but neither of those happen much - and not at all lately.

[Fritz]

I could not disagree more. These are not evenly matched teams. The Giants have one path to success and that is protect their defense by playing ball control and field position. Packers have many more ways to beat them.

I also think Rodgers will be spitting fire after the All Pro voting.

Somebody needs to sit down with him and explain how a mere five votes out of fifty - fifty! - means that 90% of the world thinks Aaron Rodgers is NOT an All Pro QB.

Aaron whaddya think about that?

[vince]

They do this as well. Though when you drill down to run rank and pass rank, the success of the plays enters into it a bit more.
Yeah I really like what they do as well to make the numbers more meaningful.

[Fritz]

You two are annoying. All this logic, all this analysis of facts, these intelligent posts.

The Packers are going to lose. I can feel it. We've seen it before, twice, against this very QB in the playoffs, at Lambeau. The only questions will be whose fault was it, and who should be fired.

[Maxie the Taxi]

You two are annoying. All this logic, all this analysis of facts, these intelligent posts.

The Packers are going to lose. I can feel it. We've seen it before, twice, against this very QB in the playoffs, at Lambeau. The only questions will be whose fault was it, and who should be fired.I see what you're doing there, Fritzie ole boy. :wink:

[woodbuck27]

You two are annoying. All this logic, all this analysis of facts, these intelligent posts.

The Packers are going to lose. I can feel it. We've seen it before, twice, against this very QB in the playoffs, at Lambeau. The only questions will be whose fault was it, and who should be fired.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000770363/article/odell-beckham-living-out-playoff-dream-seahawks-feel-confident

Odell Beckham living out playoff dream and Blah Blah Blah

Comment woodbuck27: This game is simple in terms of the game plan.

Stop the Eli Manning to O'Dell Beckam hook up's.

Now having posted that; will that be an easy task? I have major concerns and the Packer Secondary.

[RashanGary]

I could not disagree more. These are not evenly matched teams. The Giants have one path to success and that is protect their defense by playing ball control and field position. Packers have many more ways to beat them.

I also think Rodgers will be spitting fire after the All Pro voting.

Two very different but very good teams capable of beating anyone on any given day. One with defense, the other with offense. I see them as both about equally strong but different.

[vince]

You've been calling for losses for weeks so don't stop what's clearly working Fritzy. :-)

That'd be like changing the game thread starter in the middle of a run.

[woodbuck27]

This fella is a key for the Giants success Vs the Packers:

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2685281-janoris-jenkins-ascent-to-stardom-isnt-your-typical-redemption-narrative?utm_source=newsletter&utm_medium=newsletter&utm_campaign=nfl

Janoris Jenkins' Ascent to Stardom Isn't Your Typical Redemption Narrative

By Yaron Weitzman , Featured Columnist Jan 6, 2017

[vince]

They do this as well. Though when you drill down to run rank and pass rank, the success of the plays enters into it a bit more.
Following up on that a bit...

FO's stats suggest Cook should/will be targeted often and have a big day.

Giants Pass Defense Effectiveness by Receiver Type (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamdef)

#1 WR - #2 ranked 8.7 targets 55.8 yds/game allowed
#2 WR - #5 ranked 6.9 targets 55.9 yds/game
Other WR - #7 ranked 5.9 targets 59.4 yds/game
TE - #26 ranked 8.3 targets 69.7 yds/game
RB - #3 ranked 8.0 targets 37.5 yds/game

That projects out to 132 targets and 1,115 yards allowed by tight ends for the year.

Assume a 65% completion rate (Rodgers' is 65.7% for the year and 70.2% last 4 games) and you have 86 catches for 1,115 yards. 13.1 ypc

Travis Kelce's monster year resulted in 85 catches for 1,125 this year. 13.2 ypc

Cook had a pretty impressive 12.6 ypc which ranks him 6th among TE's with 30+ catches.

[vince]

It wasn't particularly insightful overall, but here's a hidden performance stat from FO's game preview (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/game-previews/2017/nfc-wild-card-playoff-preview-2017) that could show up on Sunday. The Packers don't look to have a lot of success running it, and I'd expect Rodgers to be in shotgun/pistol formation most often, but if we see them running it with Rodgers under center, they're probably looking to set the Giants up and take advantage of their defensive aggression.


The Packers have a particularly good chance of making big plays on the down-and-distance where big plays are most prevalent: second-and-short. The Giants' defense ranks in the top ten for every down-and-distance combination except second-and-short (1 or 2 yards), where they rank just 31st. Having that small distance to go makes a huge difference, as the Giants rank No. 2 on second-and-medium and No. 1 on second-and-long. Part of the issue here is that the Giants had the NFL's largest gap on defense between play-action passes (9.2 yards per pass, 28th) and other passes (5.7 yards per pass, second behind Denver).

[pbmax]

If McCarthy is impressed enough by their D, I could see him getting under center.

But since he believes his guys will win, and even against the Seattle in that disastrous first half, I would bet on shotgun to start.

I do see him testing them by running though. We'll see.

[pbmax]

Actually, Packers opened up the Detroit game by scoring on a drive where they did not use Nelson or Adams a whole lot. Could see that early versus Giants too.

[pbmax]

Ty Dunne is torturing Packer fans. He just posted this:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1lpb3XXUAYZ4mP.jpg:large

[vince]

If McCarthy is impressed enough by their D, I could see him getting under center.

But since he believes his guys will win, and even against the Seattle in that disastrous first half, I would bet on shotgun to start.

I do see him testing them by running though. We'll see.
I'm not suggesting they should or will go under center exclusively or even a lot. But if they do it even a handful of times we could see play-action and a big shot downfield later on.

The Packers run play action from shotgun/pistol as well - in fact most often - but it's not even close to being as effective selling the run.

The Packers actually averaged fewer yards per pass with play-action (6.3) than without (6.9), one of only five teams to see yards per pass drop with play-action.

[pbmax]

ProFootballTalk @ProFootballTalk

The Packers still haven't sold out Sunday's playoff game, and they're enticing fans with free hot chocolate

[pbmax]

Ripper with bum shoulder. Questionable.

Adam Schefter ‏@AdamSchefter 18m18 minutes ago
Packers added FB Aaron Ripkowski (shoulder) to the injury report and he is questionable for Sunday.

[vince]

Well that sucks. Good thing they got Kerridge involved last week. :smk:

[Fritz]

I see what you're doing there, Fritzie ole boy. :wink:

Shhhhh.....

[Guiness]

You two are annoying. All this logic, all this analysis of facts, these intelligent posts.

The Packers are going to lose. I can feel it. We've seen it before, twice, against this very QB in the playoffs, at Lambeau. The only questions will be whose fault was it, and who should be fired.

Calm yourself Fritz
https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000329171467/0d0022640c2fb46fa2238f6b481ca35c_400x400.jpeg

[Fritz]

You think that picture will calm me down??

[Guiness]

Well that sucks. Good thing they got Kerridge involved last week. :smk:

I would've used a kool-aid emoji for that one.

I see the Giants D, and OBJ mentioned here. Am I the only one concerned about Cruz and/or Sheppard? Both very good WRs. With the CB situation, I can see Capers scheming to give extra help with OBJ, leaving the other two with good matchups. I think Ha-Ha's play will have a big impact on the outcome of this game.

[Guiness]

You think that picture will calm me down??

Let me re-word that. Distract yourself Fritz.

[vince]

I would've used a kool-aid emoji for that one.

I see the Giants D, and OBJ mentioned here. Am I the only one concerned about Cruz and/or Sheppard? Both very good WRs. With the CB situation, I can see Capers scheming to give extra help with OBJ, leaving the other two with good matchups. I think Ha-Ha's play will have a big impact on the outcome of this game.
Good points. They are largely overlooked. It probably has a lot to do with the fact that Shepard was held to 2 catches for 14 yards and Cruz was shut out when they came to Lambeau earlier in the year. That probably isn't going to be the case again.

Cruz hasn't really been the same player since they moved him from the slot where he excelled before his injuries and the arrival of OBJ.

I think a lot also has to do with their integration in the Giants' short passing attack that requires longer sustained drives but Manning hasn't been accurate enough to consistently deliver. Beckham being their feature guy and designated big-play producer (101 for 1367 yds and 10 TDs) has accounted for the bulk of their offensive production.

Shepard's 65 catches for 683 and 8 touchdowns may be a little underrated though.

[vince]

Which controversial AP All Pro will help validate their selection tomorrow?

https://media.profootballfocus.com/2017/01/Vernon-Bakhtiari-player-matchup.png

Bakh was also selected as a 2nd Team PFF All Pro. Vernon did not make PFF's cut this year.

DE Olivier Vernon — one of New York’s big-money free-agent acquisitions this past offseason — has thus far been an upgrade among the Giants’ defensive line, recording more QB pressures (86) than any other 4-3 defensive end this season (albeit on 26 more pass-rushing snaps than the next-closest player). Without Jason Pierre-Paul suiting up, Vernon’s impact will be even more important on Sunday, as he’ll need to disrupt Aaron Rodgers in the pocket. Likely slowing Vernon, however, will be Packers LT David Bakhtiari. For the 2016 regular season, Bakhtiari recorded the second-highest pass-blocking efficiency mark among all NFL offensive tackles.
In the first match-up, Bakh held Vernon sackless in 43 pass attempts.

He managed 4 solo and 2 assisted tackles, 1 on a short pass to the right flat for a 4-yard gain, 3 (of 7 total) on runs right at him outside (10 yard gain, -1 yards, and -3 yards in garbage time, 1 assisted tackle on a run inside off tackle for 2-yard gain, and 1 assisted tackle on a run up the middle for 4-yard gain.

All in all, a pretty quiet and non-impactful night for Vernon in Round 1 - Advantage Bakhtiari

[vince]

This year, Vernon has notched sacks against Trent Williams (WAS), Jason Peters (PHI), Andrew Whitworth (CIN), Charles Leno (CHI), Joe Thomas (CLE) - 2, Alejandro Villanueva (PIT) - 2, and Taylor Decker (DET) - 0.5

[Tony Oday]

I just don't see how the Pack can beat the Giants. Their defense can at least be a speed bump and our defense will just get rolled in the secondary.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Who's in charge of posting the injury reports? I'm a busy man, don't have time to search around. Is Rollins out? I may take my talents to packerrodents.com

[esoxx]

Rollins is out.

[RashanGary]

If we're going to win the SB I think it's going to be with Damarious Randall all of a sudden getting healthy and playing good football. Gunter is serviceable. Randall is good when he's healthy. He just hasn't been since the third quarter of week 1. If he gets his health all of a sudden, Hyde can play inside and Rollins plays well inside too. We could get healthy at just the right time to knock off dallas and Atlanta.

But right now it's the giants. I hope for a big game from the dl stopping the run, the outside guys and Daniels rushing the passer and then a newfound healthy showing from Randall. If that happens we win and look like a new dark horse to win the SB.

[pbmax]

See video at this link.

https://twitter.com/VeteranScout/status/817451563811602432

The film watcher here is talking about Martin's block on Guion and his second on Martinez. He never mentioned that Daniels and Martinez fell for counter motion of FB and missed the RB running to to Defenses' right. Both Daniels and Martinez out of their gap trying to fill a hole.

There is such a thing as trying too hard.