Bakh & HaHa 2nd Team All-Pros

[vince]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000770458/article/three-rookies-matt-ryan-among-players-named-to-allpro-team

VOTING RESULTS
Balloting among a national panel of 50 voters

OFFENSE

Quarterback
Matt Ryan, Atlanta, 29; Tom Brady, New England, 15; Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay, 5; Derek Carr, Oakland, 1.

Running Backs
Ezekiel Elliott, Dallas, 47; David Johnson, Arizona, 3.

Tight End
Travis Kelce, Kansas City, 44; Greg Olsen, Carolina, 5; Rob Gronkowski, New England, 1.

Wide Receivers
Antonio Brown, Pittsburgh, 43; Julio Jones, Atlanta, 30; Odell Beckham Jr., New York Giants, 16; Mike Evans, Tampa Bay, 6; Jordy Nelson, Green Bay 5.

Flex
David Johnson, Arizona, 24; Le'Veon Bell, Pittsburgh, 18; Odell Beckham Jr., New York Giants, 3; Antonio Brown, Pittsburgh, 1; Larry Fitzgerald, Arizona, 1; LeSean McCoy, Buffalo, 1; Jarvis Landry, Miami, 1; Travis Kelce, Kansas City, 1.

Left Tackle
Tyron Smith, Dallas, 27; David Bakhtiari, Green Bay, 8; Joe Thomas, Cleveland, 7; Trent Williams, Washington, 3; Jason Peters, Philadelphia, 2; Taylor Lewan, Tennessee, 1; Donald Penn, Oakland, 1; Andrew Whitworth, Cincinnati, 1.

Right Tackle
Jack Conklin, Tennessee, 27 1-2; Mitchell Schwartz, Kansas City, 6; Marcus Cannon, New England, 6; Bryan Bulaga, Green Bay, 5 1-2; Zach Strief, New Orleans, 2; Ryan Schraeder, Atlanta, 2; Marcus Gilbert, Pittsburgh, 1; Left Guards Kelechi Osemele, Oakland, 47; Marshal Yanda, Baltimore, 2; James Carpenter, New York Jets, 1. Right Guard Zack Martin, Dallas, 40; David DeCastro, Pittsburgh, 5; Marshal Yanda, Baltimore, 4; Kevin Zeitler, Cincinnati, 1.

Center
Travis Frederick, Dallas, 29; Alex Mack, Atlanta, 14; Rodney Hudson, Oakland, 5; Maurkice Pouncey, Pittsburgh, 1, Brandon Linder, Jacksonville, 1.

DEFENSE

Edge Rushers
Khalil Mack, Oakland, 46; Vic Beasley Jr., Atlanta, 30; Cameron Wake, Miami, 3; Olivier Vernon, Miami, 3; Jadeveon Clowney, Houston,m 3; Brandon Graham, Philadelphia, 3; Michael Bennett, Seattle, 2; Cameron Jordan, New Orleans, 2; Danielle Hunter, Minnesota, 2; Cliff Avril, Seattle, 2; Everon Griffen, Minnesota, 1; Joey Bosa, San Diego, 1.

Interior Linemen
Aaron Donald, St. Louis, 47; Damon Harrison, New York Giants 16; Ndamukong Suh, Miami, 12; Calais Campbell, Arizona, 7; Gerald McCoy, Tampa Bay, 7; Fletcher Cox, Philadelphia, 6; Geno Atkins, Cincinnati, 5.

Linebackers-z
Bobby Wagner, Seattle, 48; Von Miller, Denver, 47; Sean Lee, Dallas, 41; Lorenzo Alexander, Buffalo, 4; Luke Kuechly, Carolina, 2; C.J. Mosley, Baltimore, 1; Zach Brown, Buffalo, 1; Zachary Orr, Baltimore, 1; Alec Ogletree, Los Angeles, 1; Dont'a Hightower, New England, 1; Bernardick McKinney, Houston, 1; Lavonte David, Tampa Bay, 1; Whitney Mercilus, Houston, 1.

Cornerbacks
Aqib Talib, Denver, 27; Marcus Peters, Kansas City, 23; Janoris Jenkins, New York Giants, 17; Malcolm Butler, New England, 8; Casey Hayward, San Diego, 8; Richard Sherman, Seattle, 7; Xavier Rhodes, Minnesota, 5; Chris Harris Jr., Denver, 4; Dominique-Rodgers-Cromartie, New York Giants, 1.

Safeties
Landon Collins, New York Giants, 47; Eric Berry, Kansas City, 31; Devin McCourty, New England, 4; Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Green Bay, 4; Earl Thomas, Seattle, 3; Harrison Smith, Minnesota, 3; Reggie Nelson, Cincinnati, 2; Kam Chancellor, Seattle, 2; Malcolm Jenkins, Philadelphia, 1; Eric Weddle, Baltimore, 1; Quintin Demps, Houston, 1; Darian Stewart, Denver, 1.

Defensive Back
Chris Harris Jr., Denver, 14; Dominique-Rodgers-Cromartie, New York Giants, 6; Malcolm Butler, New England, 5; Eric Berry, Kansas City, 3; Casey Hayward, San Diego, 3; Malcolm Jenkins, Philadelphia, 3; Patrick Peterson, Arizona, 2; Marcus Peters, Kansas City, 2; Xavier Rhodes, Minnesota, 2; Ha Ha Clinton-Dix, Green Bay, 2; Janoris Jenkins, New York Giants, 2; Aqib Talib, Denver, 1; Darius Slay, Detroit, 1; Devin McCourty, New England, 1; Brent Grimes, Tampa Bay, 1; Richard Sherman, Seattle, 1.

SPECIAL TEAMS


Placekicker
Justin Tucker, Baltimore, 50.

Punter
Johnny Hekker, Los Angeles, 42; Marquette King, Oakland, 4; Pat McAfee, Indianapolis, 2; Brad Wing, New York Giants, 1; Sam Martin, Detroit, 1.

Kick Returner
Cordarrelle Patterson, Minnesota, 41; Tyler Lockett, Seattle, 5; Tyreek Hill, Kansas City, 5.

Punt Returner
Tyreek Hill, Kansas City, 50.

Special Teamer
Matthew Slater, New England, 14; Nate Ebner, New England, 12; Dwayne Harris, New York Giants, 6; Justin Bethel, Arizona, 3; Matt Develin, New England, 3; Michael Thomas, Miami, 3; Chase Reynolds, Los Angeles, 3; Eric Murray, Kansas City, 2; Chris Maragos, Philadelphia, 1; Eric Weems, Atlanta, 1; Josh Bellamy, Chicago, 1.

[Harlan Huckleby]

2 Badgers. Maybe next year 2 Watt Brothers added.

Actually we don't really know how good TJ Watt will be in pros. I doubt he would have gotten All-American honors if his last name wasn't Watt.

[Patler]

Our first indication that Rodgers' excellence these last six weeks really didn't make a huge impression nationwide. In spite of that string of performances and his league-leading TD total, he got only 5 of 50 votes. It does not bode well for Rodgers as MVP.

[Pugger]

Our first indication that Rodgers' excellence these last six weeks really didn't make a huge impression nationwide. In spite of that string of performances and his league-leading TD total, he got only 5 of 50 votes. It does not bode well for Rodgers as MVP.

I never thought he was a serious MVP candidate mainly because of his early struggles. Of course his bar is so high the only way that he can win these kinds of awards is if he plays at a ridiculous level all season long.

[vince]

Yeah he's been great of late (and I think that will continue through the playoffs) but Ryan and Brady have been equally great this year - and more consistently so.

There may be an argument to be made about who's truly more "valuable" to their team, and I think Rodgers wins that argument but that's so subjective and would require a depth of knowledge about every team that very few people have.

Ryan's 117.1 passer rating suggests he's had the 5th best season of all time, and Brady's isn't far behind.

Passer Rating
1. Ryan 117.1
2. Brady 112.1
3. Prescott 104.9
4. Rodgers 104.2

Even the last 4 weeks, Rodgers' 125.0 rating is eclipsed by Ryan's 133.7. Brady is 3rd at 109.9.

[vince]

Bulaga finished only 1/2 vote out of 2nd team status.

[KYPack]

Can't help if some of those who voted for Bryan B was out of respect. He's old school and definitely shows up to play when his injuries would keep a normal guy off the field. He isn't on my all pro team, but he is on my "all guts" squad. TJ Lang is on the same team. Many times I've seen both of 'em hobble off the field, but never miss a series.

[Fritz]

Plus, they both got ugly mugs. That counts for something when you're an offensive lineman.

[Guiness]

That is a serious amount of respect for Bakh. Pretty damn good for a 4th round pick who was pretty much an emergency starter after Bulaga went down during the pre-season.

[Guiness]

Just noticed Casey Howard got some votes.

[vince]

Just noticed Casey Howard got some votes.
Yeah hindsight's 20/20, and I was against re-signing him at his going rate at the time, but he sure would look good as a Packer about now wouldn't he? He needed two years to recover from his groin and knee problems, and he was only a 4.6 guy to start if I recall. Props to him for a great year.

[vince]

Plus, they both got ugly mugs. That counts for something when you're an offensive lineman.
That must be why bobble doesn't like Bakh. Too pretty.

[RashanGary]

Pro bowl means more. This all pro shit is a joke. Bahk is about 4th in NFC. He could easily be a full probowler next year. He played probowl football this year. McGinns scouting people are often times slow to change their opinions. I've seen it before, they keep saying jordy is a so/so player or Aaron wasn't a 1st round pick for like 5 years then eventually they shut up and get on board with common sense.

I think the probowl does a pretty good job even if they're about a year behind sometimes. Better than the scouts who tend to be half a career behind because they're stuck in old opinions or all pro which is just a joke apparently.

Bahk is an upper tier lt bordering on probowl.

[George Cumby]

Our first indication that Rodgers' excellence these last six weeks really didn't make a huge impression nationwide. In spite of that string of performances and his league-leading TD total, he got only 5 of 50 votes. It does not bode well for Rodgers as MVP.

Good he will be pissed off next year.

[vince]

Really?

I'm all for a credible system of recognition, and neither one is very good, but the Pro Bowl selection process is the joke to end them all if you want to actually recognize the year's best performers in my opinion.

The fans vote for their team's players, the players vote for their buddies, and the coaches (who are the most credible but only count for 1/3) probably don't care.

Remember when Jeff Saturday was a Pro Bowler, the same year he was so bad he was benched for Evan Dietrich-Smith I think it was?

At least the All-Pro process intends to recognize play and not popularity, and is somewhat exclusive in its honors.

66 players were All-Pro, including ties - basically the top 2 vote-getters at each position.
133 players were Pro Bowlers last year.

I'm sure there's a better way to conduct a process of identifying some credible consensus for recognizing the league's best players but it's definitely not the Pro Bowl selection system.

PFF Awards doesn't have the established media and league credibility, and it's far from perfect IMO, but it's a hell of a lot more objective and based on an extensive process of evaluated play.

Perhaps a confidential rating system of league scouting representives would be best.

[RashanGary]

Perhaps a confidential rating system of league scouting representives would be best.

No way, i've heard McGinns scouts shit talk HOF players half way into their careers (aaron Rodgers for one) and packer HOFer jordy for two. They stick with their stupid college opinion for way too long.

[vince]

Those quotes are from who knows who and who knows when.

He often has good information, particularly when researching/reviewing game film and tracking information from it, but much of his writing demonstrates that he considers his craft to be more entertainment-based and designed primarily to generate profit for himself and his employer not inform the public. He's good at what he does (stirring up and entertaining his readers), but it often demonstrates a lack of journalistic integrity.

I'm not saying they're made up, but the bottom line is I would have no doubt those confidential quotes are often pulled out of his files to serve his specific editorial purpose and they probably are years old a lot of times. Who's to know or have the ability to question him on it?

The real point is that it seems awfully dubious to suggest the the entirety of the professional NFL scouting population is incompetent and out of date in their ongoing player evaluations. Some of them are incompetent no doubt and none of them would agree about all player assessments all the time, but assessing the competency of an entire profession on select loaded quotes included in McGinn's purposed propaganda seems a little offbase to me.

If you and I can modify our assessments as players grow and develop, I'm pretty sure the professional scouts can too.

[esoxx]

I've seen it before, they keep saying jordy is a so/so player or Aaron wasn't a 1st round pick for like 5 years then eventually they shut up and get on board with common sense

Where has any scout, or any person for that matter, ever said "Aaron Rodgers wasn't a 1st round pick for like 5 years"?

[Zool]

You shouldn't let paper writers vote on anything anymore. Half of what they do is for shock value. It's all about the clicks making then non-credible IMO

[RashanGary]

You shouldn't let paper writers vote on anything anymore. Half of what they do is for shock value. It's all about the clicks making then non-credible IMO

Agree.

[vince]

Agreed but the NFL neither can nor would want to stop them. Biased, non-credible media and all that, but they still fuel the engine unfortunately. It doesn't mean the league couldn't build a better, more credible system though to promote its best performers each year. The Pro Bowl system engages the fanbase to a limited extent I suppose, but I'd say most recognize it as the joke it is driven by nothing more than popularity and name recognition, followed by a ridiculous never-ending additive process of watering down the no credibility it started with because they actually have to field two teams to perform a joke of an exhibition that the league's brand now becomes worse off for actually playing each year.

There needs to be something better than and/or in addition to that if they want something seen as legit.

[vince]

Zach Kruse
@ZachKruse2

David Bakhtiari really had an incredible season. According to @PFF_Sam, Aaron Rodgers was responsible for more pressures than Bakhtiari.

[Fritz]

I always said Aaron Rodgers can't block for shit.

[green_bowl_packer]

Anyone know how to embed tweets? Iron Sheik is a Bakhtiari fan.

https://twitter.com/the_ironsheik/status/818213762427711488