Geronimo Allison Charged With Misdemeanor Possession

[pbmax]

of that sweet blaze.

Happened in December.

Spoon is on the crime beat: http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/01/10/packers-allison-faces-marijuana-charge/96399446/

[Joemailman]

Actually happened on September 4. One day before he was added to the practice squad. Charges filed in December.

Since the Packers had cut him on September 2, and he hadn't been signed yet when the incident happened, is he subject to league discipline?

[Tony Oday]

OMG he got caught with a plant! Kill him.

[gbgary]

Actually happened on September 4. One day before he was added to the practice squad. Charges filed in December.

Since the Packers had cut him on September 2, and he hadn't been signed yet when the incident happened, is he subject to league discipline?

good question.

[arcilite]

Of course it's fucking Cohen that wrote this article

[CaptainKickass]

https://i.imgur.com/LR8rbeS.jpg

[red]

Am I the only one that likes him more now?

[KYPack]

I hear ya Red.

At least the guy is doing something.

3 blunts on the front seat of a rent a Dodge doesn't seem like the crime of the century, does it?

[Harlan Huckleby]

I put this in the category of Little Debbies snack cakes. Athletes should not be filling their bellies with junk food or their lungs with smoke. You need every edge you can get.

God knows I live a clean life.

[Maxie the Taxi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4Nx1IaP3vc

[wootah]

Am I the only one that likes him more now?

What do you think of his infamous tweet streak in 2012, Red?

[Fritz]

He's Packer People now.

[Patler]

Cut his ass. Not because of the charge, but for being so dumb as to get caught.
Getting caught because he was pulled over for speeding? Idiot.

[Patler]

He's Packer People now.

Sad, but true, apparently.

[Fritz]

Cut his ass. Not because of the charge, but for being so dumb as to get caught.
Getting caught because he was pulled over for speeding? Idiot.

Given that stoned people generally drive about twenty mph under the speed limit, can we assume he was not toking it up at the time of the stop?

[Patler]

Bush
Jones
Guion
Pennel
Goodson
Pennel
Allison

all within the last two years. There is a problem that needs to be addressed.

[Der Lehrer]

Absolutely. We need these people using prescription opioids to help their aches and pains instead of natural remedies.

[Smidgeon]

Bush
Jones
Guion
Pennel
Goodson
Pennel
Allison

all within the last two years. There is a problem that needs to be addressed.

What's going on with that d-line? 4 of the 7 (Jones, Pennel, Guion, Pennel)

[Guiness]

Bush
Jones
Guion
Pennel
Goodson
Pennel
Allison

all within the last two years. There is a problem that needs to be addressed.

Trying to decide if you're being sarcastic or not. I strongly suspect so, but anyways...

There is a problem. With NFL's unwavering conservative stance because old guys in suits think it will affect their brand to do otherwise.

Football players need pain meds. Lot of news about people dying of opiod OD these days...weed OD, not so much.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I don't think today's athletes abuse "substances" with any more frequency or intensity than yesterday's athletes abused alcohol. Max McGee and Hornung regularly violated curfew to spend the night out drinking. McGee was even made an icon because of his Super Bowl performance with a hangover.

The difference between today and yesterday is: yesterday's media didn't report on such things either because it just wasn't done in those days or because half the press also abused alcohol AND, frankly, yesterday's athletes may have been more naive about some stuff, but they were a whole lot smarter than today's idiots. To call today's college players "student" athletes is a joke.

And before anyone says I'm generalizing, yes I am speaking in generalities. I'm not saying every player nowadays is an idiot...just that IMO there's a whole lot more idiots today than yesterday.

[woodbuck27]

I put this in the category of Little Debbies snack cakes. Athletes should not be filling their bellies with junk food or their lungs with smoke. You need every edge you can get.

God knows I live a clean life.

Just what I need ....some excellent humor.

Hahahahahahaha

[woodbuck27]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/f8/22/fe/f822fecebb35397e9ac31debd19583c2.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/76/55/94/765594300f42a99a728f76ccde0ae0cd.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/c0/97/4a/c0974a719e562addef39f7acbaba7e54.jpg

[Patler]

I don't think today's athletes abuse "substances" with any more frequency or intensity than yesterday's athletes abused alcohol. Max McGee and Hornung regularly violated curfew to spend the night out drinking. McGee was even made an icon because of his Super Bowl performance with a hangover.

The difference between today and yesterday is: yesterday's media didn't report on such things either because it just wasn't done in those days or because half the press also abused alcohol AND, frankly, yesterday's athletes may have been more naive about some stuff, but they were a whole lot smarter than today's idiots. To call today's college players "student" athletes is a joke.

And before anyone says I'm generalizing, yes I am speaking in generalities. I'm not saying every player nowadays is an idiot...just that IMO there's a whole lot more idiots today than yesterday.

All true, but drinking was/is legal, and so long as it doesn't lead to an addiction or other acts that are illegal, the league doesn't care.
On the other hand, drug use in different forms is illegal and does run afoul of league rules.

Whether we think marijuana should or shouldn't be legal doesn't matter. Whether or not we think it is a preferable pain treatment doesn't matter. What does matter is that a player chose do do something he knew could get him suspended, AND was so stupid/careless about it that he was caught.

His stupidity bothers me more than his use.

[Zool]

Whether we think marijuana should or shouldn't be legal doesn't matter. Whether or not we think it is a preferable pain treatment doesn't matter.

I agree with this in this instance, but it's a mentality that needs to shift in the country. But the DEA is a big money business as are prisons, so marijuana remains illegal.

[Maxie the Taxi]

All true, but drinking was/is legal, and so long as it doesn't lead to an addiction or other acts that are illegal, the league doesn't care.
On the other hand, drug use in different forms is illegal and does run afoul of league rules.

Whether we think marijuana should or shouldn't be legal doesn't matter. Whether or not we think it is a preferable pain treatment doesn't matter. What does matter is that a player chose do do something he knew could get him suspended, AND was so stupid/careless about it that he was caught.

His stupidity bothers me more than his use.Yeah, that was my main point too. The legal/illegal thing doesn't hold to well considering that it wasn't uncommon for players to get DUI's then, but it wasn't all that big a deal then. Plus, they WERE breaking Lombardi's curfew rules, but Lombardi looked the other way because McGee and Hornung were key players and favorites.

[pbmax]

I agree with this in this instance, but it's a mentality that needs to shift in the country. But the DEA is a big money business as are prisons, so marijuana remains illegal.

I have less of a problem with guys that are not busted out in public like Allison, Guion and Jones. Don't be that dumb.

However, I am not sure its a huge improvement not to be able to decipher the testing schedule and get busted through testing (Bush, Pennel).

Should it be changed, sure, that's fine. But it hasn't yet.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Pack will keep him, let the NFL fine/suspend him and then get him into treatment, say they are behind him and move on. That is, until he's caught again and then they cut him and move on.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I think it would be a mistake to not make reference to cultural changes in the US between now and then when thinking about this stuff.

Back in the day alcohol abuse was pretty much accepted and swept under the rug. DUI offenders were hard to convict because jurists had the attitude of "there by the grace of God go I." Today's culture is now hyper-sensitive to substance abuse including alcohol.

Gambling in the day might be a better analogy to today's substance abuse hypersensitivity. Hornung and Karras were suspend for a year for gambling small amounts. Pete Rose too, was severely punished, although he gambled bigger amounts. These guys could be criticized for being foolish, but I don't think you could argue they were stupid. I think they knew what they did violated policy and could carry consequences, but they figured they were too smart to get caught. I think today many of these athletes don't even stop to think because it just doesn't occur to them.

[MadScientist]

Pack will keep him, let the NFL fine/suspend him and then get him into treatment, say they are behind him and move on. That is, until he's caught again and then they cut him and move on.

At most this is a first time non-PED, so I'm not sure they can suspend him, or even fine him. I think this will place him in the program, subjecting him to frequent random tests, with a suspension if he tests positive.

Given the nature of the policy he might already have been discharged from stage 1 (it is only 90 days). Here's a clear description of the NFL's policy: http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2015/8/28/9218621/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-nfls-substance-abuse-policies-martavis-bryant-steelers

It's minor, but just plain stupid.

[George Cumby]

First, I didn't know Woody was a stoner. But after reflecting on ihis posting history, it should have been obvious that he has partaken in more that's just a little MJ.

The Feds are lagging behind the states on this issue. Within 10 years the majority of the states are going to legalize it for recreational use and the Feds and the NFL will have to follow.

[Tony Oday]

If anything we should be mad at his three friends who didn't fall on the sword! Take the heat for the NFL player.

[Patler]

At most this is a first time non-PED, so I'm not sure they can suspend him, or even fine him. I think this will place him in the program, subjecting him to frequent random tests, with a suspension if he tests positive.

Given the nature of the policy he might already have been discharged from stage 1 (it is only 90 days). Here's a clear description of the NFL's policy: http://www.behindthesteelcurtain.com/pittsburgh-steelers-nfl-features-news-blog-long-form/2015/8/28/9218621/what-you-need-to-know-about-the-nfls-substance-abuse-policies-martavis-bryant-steelers

It's minor, but just plain stupid.

Perhaps his first offense, but could be his second. All players are tested at some point before the season starts. If he was tested, and failed at some time during the summer, such as during training camp, it could have been within 90 days of this offense, and put him into Stage Two.

[gbgary]

Pack will keep him, let the NFL fine/suspend him and then get him into treatment, say they are behind him and move on. That is, until he's caught again and then they cut him and move on.

the timing of the pennel release was strange. since the Packers new this was coming maybe the release of pennel was a not so subtle message to G-mo.

[mission]

It is pretty stupid to drive with weed. That's a hit on him. It's more prudent to pay a little extra for delivery, especially when you get to a level with more to lose by even the word being out on the street that you got caught.
If you have to have a little buzz for a party or something, just get one of the vaporizers. They look no different than other vapes and you aren't going to stink. I mean, come on people (Geronimo!)-- this isn't hard.

[vince]

Hey you'd indulge too listening to this biographical ballad created in your honor.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXr6rEyN6QA&list=RDDXr6rEyN6QA#t=51

Not sure what that picture of those old guys in the desert has to do with anything though...

[pbmax]

the timing of the pennel release was strange. since the Packers new this was coming maybe the release of pennel was a not so subtle message to G-mo.

His roster exemption expired that day so they had to make a decision. Was either release him or someone else.

[Patler]

His roster exemption expired that day so they had to make a decision. Was either release him or someone else.

Looking down the roster, it is hard to identify anyone to release to make room for Pennel. The LB, Jordan Tripp, maybe; but with so many of their LBs nursing injuries they need him.

It will be interesting to see if they sign Pennel after they win the SB, to have him for training camp next year. When he started his second suspension, MM said he was part of the Packer family and they would help him get through his addiction problem. Perhaps he is in treatment now?

[pbmax]

Callahan is the guy who should probably be on the PS. But now that teams are singing future contracts (see Abbrederis) it might not be practical.

[gbgary]

His roster exemption expired that day so they had to make a decision. Was either release him or someone else.

WELL! nevermind.

[Patler]

Callahan is the guy who should probably be on the PS. But now that teams are singing future contracts (see Abbrederis) it might not be practical.

That, and there was interest in him even during the season as it was. They probably want to keep him around until they decide what to do with Hundley in a year or two.

[Fritz]

Hundley will be leading this team to the playoffs in two years. Mark my words.

[Freak Out]

LOL

[MadtownPacker]

If anything we should be mad at his three friends who didn't fall on the sword! Take the heat for the NFL player.Fuck yeah!!

Time to tell those pussies they are cut off. But if it was just three why didn't the idiot just swallow them real quick?

[scharpcheddar]

Hundley will be leading this team to the playoffs in two years. Mark my words.

lol the Packers will never start a black QB. This isnt Atlanta or Philadelphia

[mission]

lol the Packers will never start a black QB. This isnt Atlanta or Philadelphia

Sorry, but that's stupid as hell. And I'm not trying to be PC.. if the best QB is a black QB then the black QB will start.

[Patler]

lol the Packers will never start a black QB.

They already have.

[scharpcheddar]

They already have.

they have never had a long term black qb and never will

[scharpcheddar]

Sorry, but that's stupid as hell. And I'm not trying to be PC.. if the best QB is a black QB then the black QB will start.

never has happened. It only happens in heavy black populated areas. Vick only played in heavy Black populated Cities. Philadelphia is the only city to have 2 long term black starting QBs compared to rest of nfl.
green bay will never let a black QB start long term. I'm not a racist,the nfl is selectively

[Zool]

Pittsburgh is largely black? It's like 3-1 white to black.

[pbmax]

never has happened. It only happens in heavy black populated areas. Vick only played in heavy Black populated Cities. Philadelphia is the only city to have 2 long term black starting QBs compared to rest of nfl.
green bay will never let a black QB start long term. I'm not a racist,the nfl is selectively

Let's draw up a list. You wanna go fan base or just metropolitan area?

[Cheesehead Craig]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/135/sw50sw8sw578.gif

[Freak Out]

This turned KKK fast.

[Freak Out]

So...this won't affect his availability will it? I mean by a suspension not being wasted and forgetting about the game.

[Patler]

never has happened. It only happens in heavy black populated areas. Vick only played in heavy Black populated Cities. Philadelphia is the only city to have 2 long term black starting QBs compared to rest of nfl.
green bay will never let a black QB start long term. I'm not a racist,the nfl is selectively

Tampa Bay, Minnesota, Detroit all had black QBs who started for a lot of years, drafted black QBs in the first round, etc.

[call_me_ishmael]

LOL. Tennessee had McNair for a long time.
Charlotte has Cam Newton.
Pittsburgh had Kordell Stewart.
Minnesota had Daunte Culpepper.
San Francisco has Colin Kaepernick.
Seattle has Rusty Wilson.
Buffalo has Tyrod Taylor.
There are countless more.

[Fritz]

They already have.




And everybody knows: Once you go black, you never go back.

[QBME]

Fuck yeah!!

Time to tell those pussies they are cut off. But if it was just three why didn't the idiot just swallow them real quick?

Cotton mouth?

[pbmax]

This turned KKK fast.

I think that this is one small area of undeniable improvement in the pros on this front. Problem with recalling older vets (some of the guys on Patler's list) is that they are more spaced out time-wise than the memory of them. But since McNair, progress has been made much more rapidly. More progress here than with coaches, though that is better too.

[pbmax]

So...this won't affect his availability will it? I mean by a suspension not being wasted and forgetting about the game.

Hearing is the 23rd of Jan. He has two possible games left before something could happen.

[George Cumby]

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/002/135/sw50sw8sw578.gif

And stupid.

[Patler]

I think that this is one small area of undeniable improvement in the pros on this front. Problem with recalling older vets (some of the guys on Patler's list) is that they are more spaced out time-wise than the memory of them. But since McNair, progress has been made much more rapidly. More progress here than with coaches, though that is better too.

Did you mean Partials list of players, or my identification of teams? Either way, what is the difference if there is spacing over time? The facts are that they commetted to black QBs when they had them and they earned it.

Minnesota has had a continuous succession of black QBs often as their starter, sometimes as their backup ever since Warren Moon became their starter in 1994, 95 & 96. He was followed immediately by Cunningham who alternated with Brad Johnson and Jeff George, but started half their games over the next three years. That lead directly to Daunte Culpepper's run of 6 years. The on-again, off-again career of Tavarious Jackson as a starter followed immediately after Culpepper. He was followed by McNabb and then Bridgewater. It has been a more or less continuous string for 22 years. Black QBs started about 200 games for them, and most often they were the preferred starter who would have started more but injuries got in the way, like this year.

Detroit had Rodney Peete as their primary starter for five years from 1989 through 1993, then Charlie Batch for 4 years from 1998 through 2001, making it 9 years of black starting QBs in 13 total. They also invested a high first round pick in Andre Ware even while Peete was their starter. Clearly they did not shy away from black QBs. In 2008 and 2009 Culpepper started 10 games for them as a backup.

Tampa Bay had a long streak of white starters after Doug Williams, until the last 8 years or so.

Jacksonville had black starting QBs for 8 consecutive years through 2010.

[Patler]

Hearing is the 23rd of Jan. He has two possible games left before something could happen.

If the Packers are still playing, I'm sure nothing will happen then, if the league waits for a final disposition of the case before leveling their punishment. It shouldn't be difficult to push it out into the off season.

[pbmax]

Did you mean Partials list of players, or my identification of teams? Either way, what is the difference if there is spacing over time? The facts are that they commetted to black QBs when they had them and they earned it.



The point sharp cheddar made was that the Packers (possibly other franchises) would in this day refuse to start an AA or black QB. I think its a patently wrong assertion today for any franchise. But I think as recently as 1995, it was still a open question about whether some franchises were reluctant.

Your list made me think of Doug Williams(78), Rodney Peete(89) and Culpepper(99) off the top of my head. Starting with Williams drafting in 1978, there was a long chain of one or two AA starters or near starters in the NFL. You could start earlier with James Harris (Bills/Pitt-'69) or Vince Harris (Chicago-'77) though their starting stints were not continuous.

I believe the last gap with no black starters at all would be after Williams left Tampa and Moon getting signed by Houston. Overall at this point, first AA starters for franchises were few and far between. 2/3 of League franchises had never started a black QB when Moon started playing for Houston.

Moon defined the end of that era with Randall Cunningham and Steve McNair. That this group coincided and started together in the 1990s was a pretty remarkable change at the time.* It was both continuous, more than one or two scufflers, and they were the unquestioned starters.

But more than a third of the NFL started their first AA QB after McNair was drafted (1995). Seattle, Baltimore, KC, NO, Atl, Jax, Miami, Carolina, SF, Houston, GB and NE all started their first black QB after McNair was in the League.


*You could mention Jeff Blake drafted in 1994, but I don't think he started his rookie year.

[Freak Out]

Hearing is the 23rd of Jan. He has two possible games left before something could happen.

Thanks PB.

[gbgary]

So...this won't affect his availability will it? I mean by a suspension not being wasted and forgetting about the game.

read it won't affect this post season. will probably be one game next season.

[Patler]

The point sharp cheddar made was that the Packers (possibly other franchises) would in this day refuse to start an AA or black QB. I think its a patently wrong assertion today for any franchise. But I think as recently as 1995, it was still a open question about whether some franchises were reluctant.

Your list made me think of Doug Williams(78), Rodney Peete(89) and Culpepper(99) off the top of my head. Starting with Williams drafting in 1978, there was a long chain of one or two AA starters or near starters in the NFL. You could start earlier with James Harris (Bills/Pitt-'69) or Vince Harris (Chicago-'77) though their starting stints were not continuous.

I believe the last gap with no black starters at all would be after Williams left Tampa and Moon getting signed by Houston. Overall at this point, first AA starters for franchises were few and far between. 2/3 of League franchises had never started a black QB when Moon started playing for Houston.

Moon defined the end of that era with Randall Cunningham and Steve McNair. That this group coincided and started together in the 1990s was a pretty remarkable change at the time.* It was both continuous, more than one or two scufflers, and they were the unquestioned starters.

But more than a third of the NFL started their first AA QB after McNair was drafted (1995). Seattle, Baltimore, KC, NO, Atl, Jax, Miami, Carolina, SF, Houston, GB and NE all started their first black QB after McNair was in the League.


*You could mention Jeff Blake drafted in 1994, but I don't think he started his rookie year.

Williams at TB is a good place to start, but even that turned into a negative when the team refused to offer more than what the lowest starting QBs made. I never understood why they let him leave. He wasn't asking for a fortune. His career at TB was a promising start for black QBs in the NFL, but then became a setback because of the money/value/respect thing, and as you wrote, there weren't many after him for a few years..

[Joemailman]

If the Packers are still playing, I'm sure nothing will happen then, if the league waits for a final disposition of the case before leveling their punishment. It shouldn't be difficult to push it out into the off season.

I would think the only way anything could happen before the Super Bowl is if he pleads guilty at the hearing. Even then, if the Packers are going to be in the Super Bowl, the NFL might just decide to push this off until the offseason.

[hoosier]

The point sharp cheddar made was that the Packers (possibly other franchises) would in this day refuse to start an AA or black QB. I think its a patently wrong assertion today for any franchise. But I think as recently as 1995, it was still a open question about whether some franchises were reluctant.

Your list made me think of Doug Williams(78), Rodney Peete(89) and Culpepper(99) off the top of my head. Starting with Williams drafting in 1978, there was a long chain of one or two AA starters or near starters in the NFL. You could start earlier with James Harris (Bills/Pitt-'69) or Vince Harris (Chicago-'77) though their starting stints were not continuous.

I believe the last gap with no black starters at all would be after Williams left Tampa and Moon getting signed by Houston. Overall at this point, first AA starters for franchises were few and far between. 2/3 of League franchises had never started a black QB when Moon started playing for Houston.

Moon defined the end of that era with Randall Cunningham and Steve McNair. That this group coincided and started together in the 1990s was a pretty remarkable change at the time.* It was both continuous, more than one or two scufflers, and they were the unquestioned starters.

But more than a third of the NFL started their first AA QB after McNair was drafted (1995). Seattle, Baltimore, KC, NO, Atl, Jax, Miami, Carolina, SF, Houston, GB and NE all started their first black QB after McNair was in the League.


*You could mention Jeff Blake drafted in 1994, but I don't think he started his rookie year.

Vince Harris = Vince Evans.

Trivia question: what is the only current NFL team never to have started an African American player at QB?

[Guiness]

Vince Harris = Vince Evans.

Trivia question: what is the only current NFL team never to have started an African American player at QB?

Is there 1 or 2? Patriots just had a black starter this season, pretty sure that was their first. I can't think of one for the Colts or Giants.

Not sure how your considering Tennessee franchise...Oilers obviously had one, did the Titans?

Oh...Vince Young. Ya, scratch the Titans!

[texaspackerbacker]

Am I reading this right? People are saying the Packers never started a black QB? Has everybody forgotten the disaster that was Seneca Wallace?

[Guiness]

Am I reading this right? People are saying the Packers never started a black QB? Has everybody forgotten the disaster that was Seneca Wallace?

I don't think anybody said that, did they? Wallace's starting career with the Packers has to rank among the all time shortest though...one drive IIRC.

[Zool]

PB, every time you type AA QB, I think they are drunk.

[pbmax]

Am I reading this right? People are saying the Packers never started a black QB? Has everybody forgotten the disaster that was Seneca Wallace?

I took the original post about this point (not the OP of the thread) was that the Packers would never name a black QB full time to starting QB. Implication was that Hundley is not going to be the Packers starter ever due to race.

No idea if they forgot about Wallace or not.

I do think there is a difference between a journeyman backup QB starting during an injury situation and moving a guy to the position full time. The former measures, in a certain way, the existence of the number of vets around (in itself a decent indicator that people are getting a chance like Vince Evans or James Harris - thanks hoosier). The latter much more of an endorsement that you don't care. Neither is perfect, because identifying the best prospects is still a 50% game of chance. I do think that retrograde attitudes were assisted in this matter by NFL offenses and payroll structure, where the QB is too valuable to most front offices to allow the HC and OC to develop a college-like offense. And that makes the transition to the pros even harder and more limiting.

Smart Football has pointed out that given the dearth of 6' 4" QBs with rocket arms, agile minds and enough mobility to survive are so rare that it is flat irrational not to develop an offense to take advantage of the talent on hand in college. If you were the Browns, could you really do worse? Ron Wolf was irrational for other reasons when he thought John Schneider shouldn't have drafted Russell Wilson.

But I think the time when teams would not consider a black QB has passed. Though not every team has done both (answer to the earlier trivia is the NY Giants), I suppose more possible there are holdouts, or at least people who think white QBs overall tend to be better prospects.

[pbmax]

PB, every time you type AA QB, I think they are drunk.


QBoC seemed likely to cause even more confusion.

I also don't want to defend Mark Sanchez.

[hoosier]

Is there 1 or 2? Patriots just had a black starter this season, pretty sure that was their first. I can't think of one for the Colts or Giants.

Not sure how your considering Tennessee franchise...Oilers obviously had one, did the Titans?

Oh...Vince Young. Ya, scratch the Titans!

Colts started Josh Freeman in the final game of 2015 season when both Luck and Hasselback were hurt. They won the game and then they cut him.

Your other answer is the correct one, as PB McGee also pointed out.

[Guiness]

Colts started Josh Freeman in the final game of 2015 season when both Luck and Hasselback were hurt. They won the game and then they cut him.

Your other answer is the correct one, as PB McGee also pointed out.

Josh Freeman? 2015 Josh Freeman? Wow, that's an emergency QB to be sure! I assume he was in town to run the scout team offense, and threw him out there in a lost season.

[hoosier]

Josh Freeman? 2015 Josh Freeman? Wow, that's an emergency QB to be sure! I assume he was in town to run the scout team offense, and threw him out there in a lost season.

Yeah, they were playing the Titans and both were already eliminated, so it was kind of a post-preseason game. I took my kids to that one. Pretty dull. Freeman didn't attempt a pass of more than 8 yards all day long.

[Guiness]

I took the original post about this point (not the OP of the thread) was that the Packers would never name a black QB full time to starting QB. Implication was that Hundley is not going to be the Packers starter ever due to race.

No idea if they forgot about Wallace or not.

I do think there is a difference between a journeyman backup QB starting during an injury situation and moving a guy to the position full time. The former measures, in a certain way, the existence of the number of vets around (in itself a decent indicator that people are getting a chance like Vince Evans or James Harris - thanks hoosier). The latter much more of an endorsement that you don't care. Neither is perfect, because identifying the best prospects is still a 50% game of chance. I do think that retrograde attitudes were assisted in this matter by NFL offenses and payroll structure, where the QB is too valuable to most front offices to allow the HC and OC to develop a college-like offense. And that makes the transition to the pros even harder and more limiting.

Smart Football has pointed out that given the dearth of 6' 4" QBs with rocket arms, agile minds and enough mobility to survive are so rare that it is flat irrational not to develop an offense to take advantage of the talent on hand in college. If you were the Browns, could you really do worse? Ron Wolf was irrational for other reasons when he thought John Schneider shouldn't have drafted Russell Wilson.

But I think the time when teams would not consider a black QB has passed. Though not every team has done both (answer to the earlier trivia is the NY Giants), I suppose more possible there are holdouts, or at least people who think white QBs overall tend to be better prospects.

Notable is several of the teams that have not had a long term AA starter was because they have had stability at the QB position. The Packers have had 4 main starting QBs since 1980. Manning and Sims have accounted for most of the Giants starts since that same date. Colts and Pats, who other teams that have never really had an AA starter also have had a couple/few long term starters at QB. Hard to judge those teams, they haven't had to sift through candidates as often.

I found an SI article on first black starting QBs by NFL team...Warren Moon was the first one for 4 teams, Oilers, Seahawks, Vikings and Chiefs!

[pbmax]

Notable is several of the teams that have not had a long term AA starter was because they have had stability at the QB position. The Packers have had 4 main starting QBs since 1980. Manning and Sims have accounted for most of the Giants starts since that same date. Colts and Pats, who other teams that have never really had an AA starter also have had a couple/few long term starters at QB. Hard to judge those teams, they haven't had to sift through candidates as often.

I found an SI article on first black starting QBs by NFL team...Warren Moon was the first one for 4 teams, Oilers, Seahawks, Vikings and Chiefs!

Packers definitely, because those were back to back.

Giants had Simms through 93, Giant gap of crap, then Manning in 2005.

Colts had Manning and Luck consecutively from 1998 through current except for one neck injury year.

Pats did have Bledsoe and Brady back to back as well for nearly as long as Packers had Favre/Rodgers.

[Guiness]

Packers definitely, because those were back to back.

Giants had Simms through 93, Giant gap of crap, then Manning in 2005.

Colts had Manning and Luck consecutively from 1998 through current except for one neck injury year.

Pats did have Bledsoe and Brady back to back as well for nearly as long as Packers had Favre/Rodgers.

Giants had pretty good stability even during the 'crap' years - Dave Brown started 53 games over 4 years, and Kerry Collins for 5 years. That accounts for 9 of those 12 years. Related...I didn't realize Eli hasn't missed a game over 12 seasons!
Patriots had about 10 different starters in the late 80's, early 90's, luminaries such as Tom Hodson, Scott Secules and Mark Wilson.

[pbmax]

Giants had pretty good stability even during the 'crap' years - Dave Brown started 53 games over 4 years, and Kerry Collins for 5 years. That accounts for 9 of those 12 years. Related...I didn't realize Eli hasn't missed a game over 12 seasons!
Patriots had about 10 different starters in the late 80's, early 90's, luminaries such as Tom Hodson, Scott Secules and Mark Wilson.

Maybe I'll give you Collins, high draft pick and all. But I refuse to concede that Dave Brown settles your QB position. :lol:

[Guiness]

Maybe I'll give you Collins, high draft pick and all. But I refuse to concede that Dave Brown settles your QB position. :lol:

Do you really want to get into the debate of draft status == skill *cough cough* Brady *cough*
Caveat: I have no idea who Dave Brown is. And I still think you're off your meds for saying thigh pads were mandated to help guard against concussions!

[Patler]

The Packers have had only 14 different players start at least one game at QB in the past 40 years, since the 1977 season. That included 631 games (14 game schedule in 1977 and 9 in 1982.) In that time frame, they have had just 6 different guys who were their first string QBs, Dickey, Whitehurst, Wright, Majkowski, Favre and Rodgers; and they started 598 of the 631 games during their careers as a starter or backup. The other 33 were started by 8 different backups.

They are seldom looking for anything but a backup, and many of those years only for a #3, as their #2 was set, too.

In that same time frame, the Bears have had 39 different QBs start at least one game..

[Guiness]

I took the original post about this point (not the OP of the thread) was that the Packers would never name a black QB full time to starting QB. Implication was that Hundley is not going to be the Packers starter ever due to race.


I doubt Hudley will ever be a starter for the Packers, but not for any nefarious reasons - APRH (Rodgers) timing will deny him the opportunity. He's signed through 2018, I don't see Rodgers leaving before then. If he shows any promise, he'll likely be too expensive to resign to a second contract.

[pbmax]

Do you really want to get into the debate of draft status == skill *cough cough* Brady *cough*
Caveat: I have no idea who Dave Brown is. And I still think you're off your meds for saying thigh pads were mandated to help guard against concussions!

High draft pick position doesn't guarantee much, but it DOES guarantee time and starting opportunities. So having mediocre first round pick playing QB is much different from a replacement/backup standpoint than having a mediocre fourth round pick starting.

Brown could have been replaced by a toaster oven and the Giants would have been better. The only guy incapable of beating him out was his backup, Kent Graham. Or Tommy Maddox. Or Danny Kanell.

And Kanell got the majority of playing time in two seasons.

Woof. Vick joke.

[Guiness]

High draft pick position doesn't guarantee much, but it DOES guarantee time and starting opportunities. So having mediocre first round pick playing QB is much different from a replacement/backup standpoint than having a mediocre fourth round pick starting.

Brown could have been replaced by a toaster oven and the Giants would have been better. The only guy incapable of beating him out was his backup, Kent Graham. Or Tommy Maddox. Or Danny Kanell.

And Kanell got the majority of playing time in two seasons.

Woof. Vick joke.

I was going to add Jess "still a bachelor' Palmer to the list, but I think that's about 5 years too late.

That wooshing sound you heard is the Vick joke going over my head