The Elephant In The Room

[The Shadow]

Just how long will we waste Rodgers' talent by having a terrible DC & defensive staff? How many times can 'lack of communication' be an excuse for this secondary?
The game has clearly passed Capers by - who is out there?

[smuggler]

I do think it's time for a change. How many playoff games has this defense given up 30+ points? Eeesh.

[Pugger]

This defense has been dreadful all year and we still made the Final 4. I hope Dom retires and McCoach looks outside the organization for a new DC. We don't need the '85 Bears but even a slightly better than average D would be good enough.

[King Friday]

When you have to rely on an undrafted kid like Gunter to cover Julio Jones...who is arguably the most physically talented receiver in the entire league...it doesn't matter who your DC is.

Your argument that Capers should be put to pasture may have merit, but that is hardly the reason we lost this game. We had the talent on the offensive side of the ball to be able to do better than a huge goose egg on the board at halftime. If Capers is incompetent, then so is McCarthy.

[alquaal]

Well something got to change, these playoff re-runs are getting old. MM and TT aren't going anywhere. Dom is a fine coach but it is time to move on.

[hoosier]

When you have to rely on an undrafted kid like Gunter to cover Julio Jones...who is arguably the most physically talented receiver in the entire league...it doesn't matter who your DC is.

Your argument that Capers should be put to pasture may have merit, but that is hardly the reason we lost this game. We had the talent on the offensive side of the ball to be able to do better than a huge goose egg on the board at halftime. If Capers is incompetent, then so is McCarthy.

Good points all. And just a couple of weeks ago we were singing Capers's praise when he managed to shut down NY. With all of the injuries to the defense, Capers has been doing it with smoke and mirrors. Bottom line is, Packers ran into a team that couldn't miss today. Nobody would have beaten Atlanta today, not the Packers, not New England, not the 85 Bears.

[Rutnstrut]

When you have to rely on an undrafted kid like Gunter to cover Julio Jones...who is arguably the most physically talented receiver in the entire league...it doesn't matter who your DC is.

Your argument that Capers should be put to pasture may have merit, but that is hardly the reason we lost this game. We had the talent on the offensive side of the ball to be able to do better than a huge goose egg on the board at halftime. If Capers is incompetent, then so is McCarthy.

This would have been a blowout even with a healthy defense. They lack talent, both players and coaches.

[Netmag]

Somethings got to change for sure. I don't really even know if it's Capers fault or not. This D has ranged from Suspect to Dreadful for many years now. They were suspect the year they went to the super bowl, but turned out to be good enough to get by. Other than that it's just varying degrees of crappiness. I fear they will let AR rot just like they did Favre unless someone wakes up and decides to alter things. I don't think they need to completely scrap everything. I think developing young players is good for longevity. However, they need to do a lot better at using FAs to fill in the other areas. It can be done. The Patsies do it every year. Plugging in players who are will to go there to try to win a Super Bowl. We've gotta do a little more of that I think in order to firm this D up.

[King Friday]

This would have been a blowout even with a healthy defense. They lack talent, both players and coaches.

We still managed to win 8 games in a row to get to this point. I hate to think what your insight would be for the rest of the NFL. Glad you are around to edu-ma-cate us.

[King Friday]

However, they need to do a lot better at using FAs to fill in the other areas. It can be done. The Patsies do it every year. Plugging in players who are will to go there to try to win a Super Bowl. We've gotta do a little more of that I think in order to firm this D up.

Yep. Ted simply has to recognize that "draft and develop only" is not going to cut it. Defensively, this team has had gaping holes at LB and CB for some time. I don't want to get all racial and stuff...but Ted needs to stop drafting white LBs.

[Bretsky]

Yep. Ted simply has to recognize that "draft and develop only" is not going to cut it. Defensively, this team has had gaping holes at LB and CB for some time. I don't want to get all racial and stuff...but Ted needs to stop drafting white LBs.

DITTO; while I continue to believe Capers has done a decent job, I am fine with the logistics it's time to move on as well. No DC could have done anything with all of the talent mismatches we had on the field today though.

We need a lot more talent on defense

[Rutnstrut]

Yep. Ted simply has to recognize that "draft and develop only" is not going to cut it. Defensively, this team has had gaping holes at LB and CB for some time. I don't want to get all racial and stuff...but Ted needs to stop drafting white LBs.

You criticize me in one post, and repeat basically what I have been saying for years in the very next. That makes sense.

[King Friday]

You criticize me in one post, and repeat basically what I have been saying for years in the very next. That makes sense.

You make it sound like the Packers are the Cleveland Browns. The team won 8 games in a row...apparently without ANY TALENT. That is what makes no sense.

Sure, there are things that need to be fixed...but your approach of "blow everything up" isn't a solution worth considering. We aren't the Cleveland Browns.

[Rutnstrut]

You make it sound like the Packers are the Cleveland Browns. The team won 8 games in a row...apparently without ANY TALENT. That is what makes no sense.

Sure, there are things that need to be fixed...but your approach of "blow everything up" isn't a solution worth considering. We aren't the Cleveland Browns.

I have NEVER said blow everything up. I have ALWAYS said that every avenue should be used to get talent, that includes FA and trades. I do believe it's time for Capers to be replaced. If that's blowing everything up, so be it.

[Harlan Huckleby]

When you have to rely on an undrafted kid like Gunter to cover Julio Jones...who is arguably the most physically talented receiver in the entire league...it doesn't matter who your DC is.

Your argument that Capers should be put to pasture may have merit, but that is hardly the reason we lost this game. We had the talent on the offensive side of the ball to be able to do better than a huge goose egg on the board at halftime. If Capers is incompetent, then so is McCarthy.

Good post. I can't believe that I used to think of you as a moron.

[RashanGary]

This packer team just lost the NFCC game. They've won a sb with this coaching staff. The problem was players, not coaching. RB and CB hurt this team this year. Good team, but need to do a little better.

[Rutnstrut]

This packer team just lost the NFCC game. They've won a sb with this coaching staff. The problem was players, not coaching. RB and CB hurt this team this year. Good team, but need to do a little better.

The problem is that is the company line EVERY year since that SB. Weren't you touting their offensive and defensive backfields just a short while ago? Coaching is part of this equation. Capers is mediocre at best. He would probably be serviceable if TT would actually give him some talent

[run pMc]

Honestly, I'm surprised they made it to the NFCC game with the cornerbacks they had. Sucks that they lost, but there are plenty of teams who would call making it that far a great year. Plus, it's not like they make the playoff on fluke seasons like the rest of the NFCN seems to.

[Strange Brew]

The Rip-a-fart-puke-ski fumble took the wind right out of the Packers sails! No excuse for that....PERIOD!!!!

[Smidgeon]

Somethings got to change for sure. I don't really even know if it's Capers fault or not. This D has ranged from Suspect to Dreadful for many years now. They were suspect the year they went to the super bowl, but turned out to be good enough to get by. Other than that it's just varying degrees of crappiness. I fear they will let AR rot just like they did Favre unless someone wakes up and decides to alter things. I don't think they need to completely scrap everything. I think developing young players is good for longevity. However, they need to do a lot better at using FAs to fill in the other areas. It can be done. The Patsies do it every year. Plugging in players who are will to go there to try to win a Super Bowl. We've gotta do a little more of that I think in order to firm this D up.

2010 Packers

#2 Scoring Defense
#5 Yards Defense
#6 Turnovers
#4 First Downs Allowed
#4 Passing Touchdowns Allowed
#2 Interceptions
#2 Rushing Touchdowns Allowed
#2 Sacks

Hardly "suspect". In fact, pretty damn good.

This was a poor year defensively for the pass defense, but 1) it wasn't the worst it's been and 2) don't let revisionist history spoil what actually was accomplished. Capers has a long history of turning his first couple years into great defenses then fading. It very well might be time to turn the keys over to someone else. But the 2010 defense was great.

I couldn't find defensive scoring (e.g. INTs returned for touchdowns), but I remember that being really good that year too. Don't remember if that was the year they set an NFL record for INT return yardage or not.

[Pugger]

The problem is that is the company line EVERY year since that SB. Weren't you touting their offensive and defensive backfields just a short while ago? Coaching is part of this equation. Capers is mediocre at best. He would probably be serviceable if TT would actually give him some talent

Dom may retire but he couldn't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. No pass rush and practice squad corners against that offense was a recipe for disaster. This game was probably the one where it would have been better to take the ball first instead of deferring. The injury carnage continued all throughout the game. Didn't we run out of O linemen at the end?

[Smidgeon]

Dom may retire but he couldn't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. No pass rush and practice squad corners against that offense was a recipe for disaster. This game was probably the one where it would have been better to take the ball first instead of deferring. The injury carnage continued all throughout the game. Didn't we run out of O linemen at the end?

Yep. Apparently Guinn got some play at guard during the last series.

[Rutnstrut]

That's another issue. Why the fuck are Packer players getting hurt more than other players?

[woodbuck27]

Dom may retire but he couldn't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. No pass rush and practice squad corners against that offense was a recipe for disaster. This game was probably the one where it would have been better to take the ball first instead of deferring. The injury carnage continued all throughout the game. Didn't we run out of O linemen at the end?

'' Dom may retire but he couldn't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. No pass rush and practice squad corners against that offense was a recipe for disaster. '' Pugger

Exactly and you do not have to look any further for blame there and the Packer GM.

The Green Bay Packer Roster is in serious condition in terms of any real talent and the absolute need in the NFL for a solid Pass Rush and something a lot better to even represent a decent pass protection and defensive secondary.

What we the fans are seeing year after year and the teams we support is simply not working and as long as it remains without a major change it will continue to fizzle in terms of any real hope and a Super Bowl.

We need to see hope in realistic terms.

We need to see some real change in vision and attitude at the top in order for us the fans to really believe again. It was in your faces yesterday. That Packer team was beaten before it stepped on the field in Atlanta. That Packer team was not going to compete. It is very sad when we see a game where the most impressive player on the Packer offensive side of the ball was a man Jordy Nelson who suffered two broken ribs two weeks ago. We saw a Packer team with defensive backs that would not have competed well against top flight College teams. The Packer defensive backfield is a certain mess and Ted Thompson brought those players to Green Bay. Ted Thompson's way is not working Packerrats. He needs to smarten up now and cut all the chaff and get all the CAP money he needs to put a better quality product on the field. Ted Thompson needs to change or the window to see another Super Bowl game with Packers and Aaron Rodgers is going to shut.

Realistically Packerrats Ted Thompson has to step down. After that changes will be made and there will be an adjustment period and we can only hope that all takes place in 3-4 years time and the Green Bay Packers are in another Super Bowl game.

[bobblehead]

The Rip-a-fart-puke-ski fumble took the wind right out of the Packers sails! No excuse for that....PERIOD!!!!

yea, that was a case of stubby. Michaels ran backwards and danced a bit the play before instead of plunging forward to either get the first or be a tad short and MM was pissed so next time around he gave Rip the ball. I get it, but it backfired bad.

[bobblehead]

That's another issue. Why the fuck are Packer players getting hurt more than other players?

This is the real elephant in the room. Even aikman asked it in passing. Why does GB, year after year, land so damn many players on season ending IR. It used to be called bad luck, but 10 years later there is an issue. I have long said its because we don't practice hitting like we play games hitting and that leads to bad tackling and bad contact. Bad contact leads to injuries. But I am just speculating. What I know for sure is that at this point its a trend, not a fluke.

[mmmdk]

This is the real elephant in the room. Even aikman asked it in passing. Why does GB, year after year, land so damn many players on season ending IR. It used to be called bad luck, but 10 years later there is an issue. I have long said its because we don't practice hitting like we play games hitting and that leads to bad tackling and bad contact. Bad contact leads to injuries. But I am just speculating. What I know for sure is that at this point its a trend, not a fluke.

Could very well be. It's strange but not a coincidence anymore. The same goes for soccer, if you don't tackle in practice as in games (sans risky ones) you will be bettered in many more duels during games and more injuries will occur. I know so, because I played soccer all my youth and still kick a little around for fun during summer. I've even coached young ones (6-8 and 8-10 year old boys). Alas, that was more than 15 years ago.

[Maxie the Taxi]

This game was probably the one where it would have been better to take the ball first instead of deferring. My thought exactly. I wondered about that from the start. I would love to know what Stubby was thinking there. In fact, I'd give anything to know what his strategy was going into this game,i.e., did he expect a shoot-out? Did he think our defense would stop or slow down Ryan?What did he think of Atlanta's defense? How did he plan to attack given Atlanta's strengths or compensate for our weaknesses? Something tells me it was business as usual with him. IMO he approached this game exactly as he had Dallas.

[pbmax]

That's another issue. Why the fuck are Packer players getting hurt more than other players?

I'm not certain they are. Football Outsiders has injury stats. The Packers are up and down like a lot of teams.

Not sure if it was 2014 or 15, but they just had a healthy year. That was after a terrible year or two. And prior to that, they were one of the healthiest teams in the League.

[pbmax]

My thought exactly. I wondered about that from the start. I would love to know what Stubby was thinking there. In fact, I'd give anything to know what his strategy was going into this game,i.e., did he expect a shoot-out? Did he think our defense would stop or slow down Ryan?What did he think of Atlanta's defense? How did he plan to attack given Atlanta's strengths or compensate for our weaknesses? Something tells me it was business as usual with him. IMO he approached this game exactly as he had Dallas.

Its the same as it always is. He expects his guys to start fast, and win early battles. They don't fall behind much, so he expects to see a lead and wants the ball to start the second half.

Problem is, he should have been as worried about the Falcons offense as he has been about Seattle's D and the Patriots everything and forgotten about the odds of getting a lead early without the ball to start.

Are we sure they deferred? I missed the coin toss.

[pbmax]

The problem with the Defense AND the Offense is their ability to execute the plan on the field. I have very little doubt that Capers had a good plan. Worked on Jones early. They were going to zone it and get to Ryan is pass rush (that part did not materialize early). The Packers had two good drives early but a turnover and a missed FG kept them off the board. Heck, even Rodgers was throwing the ball short, though he seemed to want to force things to Nelson.

The question is why don't Randall, the safety to his side and say Matthews/Ryan/Thomas understand their coverage assignments? Why doesn't Randall get zone coverage?

If he's too inexperienced in zone, why are you playing it?

On offense, the first wave of completions looked good. Almost looked like they were playing zone. Then that stopped, they played man and every route started heading deeper. And the Falcons had enough time to generate pressure from delayed blitzes up the middle or unblocked off the corner.

They had no answer to this except to screen. And there were too many drops.

Why after 4 years of this crap, demonstrated over and over again by the 49ers D, haven't they solved their problems against man coverage? Rodgers can't be a miracle worker every week. Not even he is this good.

McCarthy's approach of leveraging his superior assists to the maximum doesn't work as well in the playoffs against good teams.

[pbmax]

Hyde being out probably forced their hand at CB. They could not replace Randall in zone because Rollins had to play inside.

So they went man and the defense started to hemorrhage even worse.

[mission]

Saw this on twitter:

Aaron Rodgers has 3 playoff losses where his defense allowed 44+points. Tom Brady's defenses have NEVER allowed 44 points in his 267 starts


Pretty telling.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Are we sure they deferred? I missed the coin toss.I heard Buck (or Aikman) say Pack won the toss and deferred. It just doesn't make sense to me IF Stubby expected an offensive battle. Why throw a patched up and shaky defense immediately against the best and hottest offense in the NFL?

[pbmax]

I don't think Whitt can survive this. Not do I think he should survive this.

He does wonderful work turning marvelous athletes into man coverage CBs. But there are cases you need to do something different. Yesterday was that day. bad zone coverage has been a feature for a while.

And I will say this, pass rush has been horrible, especially in the interior. Is that Trgovac? I tend to think its the bodies. Jenkins did fine, Daniels is fine as long as he is not double teamed. I trust Ted will find CBs, but he needs pass rushers in FA as drafting them has been almost impossible.

[pbmax]

I heard Buck (or Aikman) say Pack won the toss and deferred. It just doesn't make sense to me IF Stubby expected an offensive battle. Why throw a patched up and shaky defense immediately against the best and hottest offense in the NFL?

Even Belichick did not defer to the Steelers offense. At home.

[Maxie the Taxi]

The problem with the Defense AND the Offense is their ability to execute the plan on the field. I have very little doubt that Capers had a good plan. Worked on Jones early. They were going to zone it and get to Ryan is pass rush (that part did not materialize early). The Packers had two good drives early but a turnover and a missed FG kept them off the board. Heck, even Rodgers was throwing the ball short, though he seemed to want to force things to Nelson.

The question is why don't Randall, the safety to his side and say Matthews/Ryan/Thomas understand their coverage assignments? Why doesn't Randall get zone coverage?

If he's too inexperienced in zone, why are you playing it?

On offense, the first wave of completions looked good. Almost looked like they were playing zone. Then that stopped, they played man and every route started heading deeper. And the Falcons had enough time to generate pressure from delayed blitzes up the middle or unblocked off the corner.

They had no answer to this except to screen. And there were too many drops.

Why after 4 years of this crap, demonstrated over and over again by the 49ers D, haven't they solved their problems against man coverage? Rodgers can't be a miracle worker every week. Not even he is this good.

McCarthy's approach of leveraging his superior assists to the maximum doesn't work as well in the playoffs against good teams.I tried to put myself in Stubby's shoes prior to kickoff and come up with my game plan. On Defense, I just could not imagine a solution to Ryan's offense after having watched last week's game vs Seattle.

So I figured, if I were the Packer coach I would install a game plan that emphasized ball control, by means of emphasizing Monty, both in running the ball and in short passing game. By doing so I would try to control TOP and keep Ryan off the field. I'd accept the opening KO and, hopefully, after a patient drive, I'd have a 7 point lead.

On defense I'd just try to hang in there and if things got too desperate I'd do what Aikman recommended: sellout on the pass rush. Yet, to my knowledge that never happened. We activated Elliot but he either didn't play or didn't do anything. Same with Fackrell.

My feeling is if you're going to take high risk/high benefit chances (like the early onsides kick), why not take the high risk/high benefit tact of selling out on a serious blitzing pass rush. They were getting torched anyway.

I just don't get it.

[vince]

Saw this on twitter:

Aaron Rodgers has 3 playoff losses where his defense allowed 44+points. Tom Brady's defenses have NEVER allowed 44 points in his 267 starts


Pretty telling.
Very. Here's another one that yours prompted me to look up...

The Packers gave up 42+ 3 times in the last 11 games.
In the 15 Brady years (267 games, since 2001) the Pats have never given up 42+.

[yetisnowman]

Good points all. And just a couple of weeks ago we were singing Capers's praise when he managed to shut down NY. With all of the injuries to the defense, Capers has been doing it with smoke and mirrors. Bottom line is, Packers ran into a team that couldn't miss today. Nobody would have beaten Atlanta today, not the Packers, not New England, not the 85 Bears.

No, a team that could play competent defense and not turn the ball over could have certainly beat that team yesterday. I'm sorry but to me that's a copout. Busted coverages. Terrible tackling. Zero pressure. Inability to make the plays right in their face. Atlanta's a good offense but we offered no resistance.

[red]

I heard Buck (or Aikman) say Pack won the toss and deferred. It just doesn't make sense to me IF Stubby expected an offensive battle. Why throw a patched up and shaky defense immediately against the best and hottest offense in the NFL?

i've been saying that for awhile

when you're offense is that much better then your D, why not let them set the tone?

[pbmax]

No, a team that could play competent defense and not turn the ball over could have certainly beat that team yesterday. I'm sorry but to me that's a copout. Busted coverages. Terrible tackling. Zero pressure. Inability to make the plays right in their face. Atlanta's a good offense but we offered no resistance.

A competent D was hard pressed to keep this team at 33 points the week before.

[pbmax]

i've been saying that for awhile

when you're offense is that much better then your D, why not let them set the tone?

That tone was to fiddle around for an entire half. They did not hit on plays they needed and they turned it over.

[red]

I don't think Whitt can survive this. Not do I think he should survive this.

He does wonderful work turning marvelous athletes into man coverage CBs. But there are cases you need to do something different. Yesterday was that day. bad zone coverage has been a feature for a while.

And I will say this, pass rush has been horrible, especially in the interior. Is that Trgovac? I tend to think its the bodies. Jenkins did fine, Daniels is fine as long as he is not double teamed. I trust Ted will find CBs, but he needs pass rushers in FA as drafting them has been almost impossible.

at the very least whitt should lose his job, his guys were clueless this year, and pathetic yesterday

and so help me god, if i ever see randall looking around after a play throwing his hands up looking for help again i will invent a time machine and go back in time and abort him

[vince]

I tried to put myself in Stubby's shoes prior to kickoff and come up with my game plan. On Defense, I just could not imagine a solution to Ryan's offense after having watched last week's game vs Seattle.

So I figured, if I were the Packer coach I would install a game plan that emphasized ball control, by means of emphasizing Monty, both in running the ball and in short passing game. By doing so I would try to control TOP and keep Ryan off the field. I'd accept the opening KO and, hopefully, after a patient drive, I'd have a 7 point lead.

On defense I'd just try to hang in there and if things got too desperate I'd do what Aikman recommended: sellout on the pass rush. Yet, to my knowledge that never happened. We activated Elliot but he either didn't play or didn't do anything. Same with Fackrell.

My feeling is if you're going to take high risk/high benefit chances (like the early onsides kick), why not take the high risk/high benefit tact of selling out on a serious blitzing pass rush. They were getting torched anyway.

I just don't get it.
Capers obviously didn't have much confidence in going after Ryan, but as you said, his patented soft read and react approach was just as fruitless. I think we both said last week Maxie that the Packers HAD to get to Ryan to have a chance. They're the #1 offense in the league by a good margin (more than 5 points/game over #2) for a reason, but that obviously didn't happen.

I know they were burned equally when they did blitz on those occasions when they did but I tried to find some stats on the game, and I'll continue to look but here's what PFF said (https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-gb-atl-grades-cc/):


If Green Bay was going to have any chance of slowing the Atlanta offense, the Packers needed to get pressure. On the surface, pressure on 11 plays out of 40 isn’t terrible, but it was the nature of those pressures that tell the story. They were rarely quick, and were often the result of Matt Ryan extending the play, inviting the pressure in order to open up throwing lanes. It meant the Green Bay corners had to win their matchups; they were unable to, with Ladarius Gunter exposed as overmatched as he fruitlessly tried to track Julio Jones. His 20.4 grade was the lowest of any player, getting beat for 144 yards, two touchdowns, two penalties and missing a tackle for good measure. The streaky Gunter has flashed talent, but this is a postseason that has not been kind to him.

Bottom line is Capers' defense was seriously outmatched no matter what they did.

I suspect McGinn's grades after reviewing and charting the game will offer some additional details.

[pbmax]

The Packers did not have too much trouble with Atlanta's running game. They played six in a box with nickel personnel and were stout enough for most of the game.

McCarthy encouraged Capers to switch away from base 3-4 to match personnel rather than pay attention to down and distance in 2010-11. During a couple of those years, the Packers lead the League in QB differential.

Almost every other team has made this switch. A lot of teams are in nickel personnel well over half the time.

Has this advice gone stale? Do they simply not have the personnel to play it? Because this is a case of McCarthy being ahead of a trend. But something has gone horribly wrong.

[pbmax]

Capers obviously didn't have much confidence in going after Ryan, but as you said, his patented soft read and react approach was just as fruitless. I think we both said last week Maxie that the Packers HAD to get to Ryan to have a chance. They're the #1 offense in the league by a good margin for a reason, but that obviously didn't happen.

I know they were burned equally when they did blitz on those occasions when they did but I tried to find some stats on the game, and I'll continue to look but here's what PFF said:

We might get Bob's pressure numbers tomorrow in his grades article.

I'm going to ask for a preview via Twitter. Doesn't someone have his email address? Could ask that way too.

[Maxie the Taxi]

What's disheartening, Vince, is that if you know that, and I know that and experts from around the NFL know that, why does it seem to be such a mystery to our strategists in chief, most especially Stubby?

[pbmax]

What's disheartening, Vince, is that if you know that, and I know that and experts from around the NFL know that, why does it seem to be such a mystery to our strategists in chief, most especially Stubby?

So few of their blitzes got home that I doubt increasing them would have helped.

[red]

out of all playoff teams this year, we ranked dead last in yards given up

for the season

we ranked 21st in points given up per game
22nd in yards per game
28th in yards given up per play
19th for 1st downs allowed per game
24th for third down %
24 for 4th down %
23rd for penalty yards


yeah, lets all talk about how we should keep capers

[Maxie the Taxi]

So few of their blitzes got home that I doubt increasing them would have helped.The question is why?

If someone asked me what do successful post-season and Super Bowl teams have in common, I'd say a devastating pass rush. We see it every year? We saw it yesterday where the difference was Atlanta's pass rush was in Arod's face all afternoon.

So, if this is true and not a figment of my aging imagination, somebody in GB has to do something to make our pass rush get home. It's like Tex said, we have a "warning track" pass rush...we almost get home but not quite.

Whether we need better players or better schemes or a switch to 4-3, I don't know. But the status quo is unacceptable.

[The Shadow]

The question is why?

If someone asked me what do successful post-season and Super Bowl teams have in common, I'd say a devastating pass rush. We see it every year? We saw it yesterday where the difference was Atlanta's pass rush was in Arod's face all afternoon.

So, if this is true and not a figment of my aging imagination, somebody in GB has to do something to make our pass rush get home. It's like Tex said, we have a "warning track" pass rush...we almost get home but not quite.

Whether we need better players or better schemes or a switch to 4-3, I don't know. But the status quo is unacceptable.

What he said.

[vince]

What's disheartening, Vince, is that if you know that, and I know that and experts from around the NFL know that, why does it seem to be such a mystery to our strategists in chief, most especially Stubby?
It's not a mystery to him. They know far more than we do Maxie. You think pressuring Ryan wasn't part of the plan because it didn't happen?

Because the strategy they employed didn't work doesn't mean it may not have been their best chance. This game wasn't lost by the coaches, although I'm for a new defensive philosophy, which obviously means a new DC.

Even so there's such a strong tendency for fans to confuse/conflate results with strategy. In another post somewhere here, someone blamed McCarthy for Rip's fumble. I mean seriously? McCarthy should have known that Rip was going to barrel through the hole, threaten the goalline - but fumble? He's shown good ball security to that point. Talk about hindsight analysis...

The Falcons #1 (by far) explosive offense was too much for the Packers #31 passing defense. On a good day they Packers maybe could have hung with them - by avoiding turnovers (nope), maximizing their possessions (nope), and getting one or two turnovers of their own (nope).

[Pugger]

When you have to rely on an undrafted kid like Gunter to cover Julio Jones...who is arguably the most physically talented receiver in the entire league...it doesn't matter who your DC is.

Your argument that Capers should be put to pasture may have merit, but that is hardly the reason we lost this game. We had the talent on the offensive side of the ball to be able to do better than a huge goose egg on the board at halftime. If Capers is incompetent, then so is McCarthy.

Do you really think even if Rodgers played another otherworldly game yesterday we would have won? Our defense had NO answer for Atlanta's high powered offense from the beginning. They punted just twice all damn game long. We gave up over 40 points and 500 yards and you are gonna blast the offense? smh

[Pugger]

Somethings got to change for sure. I don't really even know if it's Capers fault or not. This D has ranged from Suspect to Dreadful for many years now. They were suspect the year they went to the super bowl, but turned out to be good enough to get by. Other than that it's just varying degrees of crappiness. I fear they will let AR rot just like they did Favre unless someone wakes up and decides to alter things. I don't think they need to completely scrap everything. I think developing young players is good for longevity. However, they need to do a lot better at using FAs to fill in the other areas. It can be done. The Patsies do it every year. Plugging in players who are will to go there to try to win a Super Bowl. We've gotta do a little more of that I think in order to firm this D up.

Our defense in 2010 wasn't suspect. We were pretty darn good that year.

I do agree we have to fix this defense. We don't want to let AR rot too.

[Maxie the Taxi]

It's not a mystery to him. They know far more than we do Maxie. Because the strategy they employed didn't work doesn't mean it may not have been their best chance. This game wasn't lost by the coaches, although I'm for a new defensive philosophy, which obviously means a new DC. Even so there's such a strong tendency for fans to confuse/conflate results with strategy.

The Falcons #1 (by far) explosive offense was too much for the Packers #31 passing defense. On a good day they Packers maybe could have hung with them - by avoiding turnovers (nope), maximizing their possessions (nope), and getting one or two turnovers of their own (nope).Two comments:

One, no the game wasn't lost by the coaches. But the problem with this argument is that neither can you argue that games are won by coaches. It's never that simple.

Two, What coaches can control and what they can be held accountable for is game planning, strategy and adjustments during the game. I didn't see anything yesterday that credited the Packer brain trust in these areas. IMO the coaches went into the game with the attitude: "We beat Dallas by playing well. If we play well, we'll beat Atlanta." After the game: "We didn't play well."

That's not good enough. I think we all felt we matched up well against Dallas, but that Atlanta was a different animal that required different, out of the box tactics.

I'm an ignorant fan so I don't know for sure, maybe Stubby and company did install a dynamic game plan and innovative strategy and player errors blew up the plan. I can't deny those occurred. But that doesn't mean Stubby doesn't have some 'splainin" to do.

[Pugger]

yea, that was a case of stubby. Michaels ran backwards and danced a bit the play before instead of plunging forward to either get the first or be a tad short and MM was pissed so next time around he gave Rip the ball. I get it, but it backfired bad.

The Falcon stripped the ball out of there. That happens. I'm not gonna rip on Rip.

[red]

Our defense in 2010 wasn't suspect. We were pretty darn good that year.

I do agree we have to fix this defense. We don't want to let AR rot too.

didn't we give up a ton of yards every game that year, but also ended up with a ton of takeaways?

the bend, don't break days

or like i use to say. bend, bend, bend, bend, bend, NOW TRY NOT TO BREAK!

[Pugger]

My thought exactly. I wondered about that from the start. I would love to know what Stubby was thinking there. In fact, I'd give anything to know what his strategy was going into this game,i.e., did he expect a shoot-out? Did he think our defense would stop or slow down Ryan?What did he think of Atlanta's defense? How did he plan to attack given Atlanta's strengths or compensate for our weaknesses? Something tells me it was business as usual with him. IMO he approached this game exactly as he had Dallas.


Sometimes deferring isn't a bad idea. If at the half you are behind you get the ball first and try to get it going. If you are leading you can try to extend the lead. But this game was one in which giving them the ball first was a major error. We should have taken the ball first and tried to get an early lead. Once we were behind by 2 scores the game was over.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Sometimes deferring isn't a bad idea. If at the half you are behind you get the ball first and try to get it going. If you are leading you can try to extend the lead. But this game was one in which giving them the ball first was a major error. We should have taken the ball first and tried to get an early lead. Once we were behind by 2 scores the game was over.I'm going to go out on a limb and blame Stubby's "business as usual" approach to this game. "Just play well and we'll win." Well, I don't know if they could have won merely by playing well. Atlanta was clearly the better team and that called for extraordinary measures.

[Pugger]

I'm not certain they are. Football Outsiders has injury stats. The Packers are up and down like a lot of teams.

Not sure if it was 2014 or 15, but they just had a healthy year. That was after a terrible year or two. And prior to that, they were one of the healthiest teams in the League.

We got hammered at 2 positions - CB and RB. It also didn't help to get an early bye this year. We've been going nonstop since week 4. You could see the guys were running out of gas once we got behind by 2 scores. We've been playing playoff type games for 2 months and we finally collapsed.

[red]

i wouldn't say we got "hammered" at running back

we lost our starter, thats it

starks was worthless when healthy early on and should have been replaced right off the bat

losing lacy was big, but a lot of teams lose their #1 rb's

and at CB, we lost our #1, but IMO we should have known that he was probably done last year when he took forever to get over his last concussion. and like RB, we had our #2 and 3 healthy at the beggining of the year and they already looked lost before any injuries

[RashanGary]

We got hammered at 2 positions - CB and RB. It also didn't help to get an early bye this year. We've been going nonstop since week 4. You could see the guys were running out of gas once we got behind by 2 scores. We've been playing playoff type games for 2 months and we finally collapsed.

Really good summary of our run and collapse. Succinct but so true and telling.

[vince]

Two comments:

One, no the game wasn't lost by the coaches. But the problem with this argument is that neither can you argue that games are won by coaches. It's never that simple.

Two, What coaches can control and what they can be held accountable for is game planning, strategy and adjustments during the game. I didn't see anything yesterday that credited the Packer brain trust in these areas. IMO the coaches went into the game with the attitude: "We beat Dallas by playing well. If we play well, we'll beat Atlanta." After the game: "We didn't play well."

That's not good enough. I think we all felt we matched up well against Dallas, but that Atlanta was a different animal that required different, out of the box tactics.

I'm an ignorant fan so I don't know for sure, maybe Stubby and company did install a dynamic game plan and innovative strategy and player errors blew up the plan. I can't deny those occurred. But that doesn't mean Stubby doesn't have some 'splainin" to do.
So you're saying McCarthy's strategy consisted of "playing well." No it's not that simple you're right about that.

Nor is it as simple as, "We'll do whatever it takes to pressure Ryan." He reads things very well and gets the ball out quickly to a whole bunch of guys who are very difficult to guard and tackle. Selling out to get pressure is equally as foolish as always rushing three and dropping eight.

I'm not saying Thompson, McCarthy, et al are infallible by any stretch. It just seems that I find myself responding to what I find to be unrealistic criticism a lot. Sometimes guys get beat despite the best laid plans...

[Pugger]

Two comments:

One, no the game wasn't lost by the coaches. But the problem with this argument is that neither can you argue that games are won by coaches. It's never that simple.

Two, What coaches can control and what they can be held accountable for is game planning, strategy and adjustments during the game. I didn't see anything yesterday that credited the Packer brain trust in these areas. IMO the coaches went into the game with the attitude: "We beat Dallas by playing well. If we play well, we'll beat Atlanta." After the game: "We didn't play well."

That's not good enough. I think we all felt we matched up well against Dallas, but that Atlanta was a different animal that required different, out of the box tactics.

I'm an ignorant fan so I don't know for sure, maybe Stubby and company did install a dynamic game plan and innovative strategy and player errors blew up the plan. I can't deny those occurred. But that doesn't mean Stubby doesn't have some 'splainin" to do.

The ONLY chance we had yesterday was our offense had to play yet another flawless game to keep up with Atlanta and hope we had the lead at the end or/or a couple of turnovers. But our offense wasn't flawless and we turned it over.

[Pugger]

i wouldn't say we got "hammered" at running back

we lost our starter, thats it

starks was worthless when healthy early on and should have been replaced right off the bat

losing lacy was big, but a lot of teams lose their #1 rb's

and at CB, we lost our #1, but IMO we should have known that he was probably done last year when he took forever to get over his last concussion. and like RB, we had our #2 and 3 healthy at the beggining of the year and they already looked lost before any injuries

When you have to resort to moving a WR to RB that position was indeed a mess. It was stupid to go into the season with only Lacy, a slow 30 year old Starks and a FB.

[red]

The ONLY chance we had yesterday was our offense had to play yet another flawless game to keep up with Atlanta and hope we had the lead at the end or/or a couple of turnovers. But our offense wasn't flawless and we turned it over.

to hammer that home

we needed to score 45 points, or 7 TD's or 6 td's and a FG. but we needed to score of at least 7 possessions

we had the ball 9 times

if we had settled for more then 1 FG, we would have had to score on all but 1 possession

so really, once rip fumbled, we had no chance to catch them

[red]

When you have to resort to moving a WR to RB that position was indeed a mess. It was stupid to go into the season with only Lacy, a slow 30 year old Starks and a FB.

no doubt about that

[gbgary]

i've been saying that for awhile

when you're offense is that much better then your D, why not let them set the tone?

yup.

[Smidgeon]

didn't we give up a ton of yards every game that year, but also ended up with a ton of takeaways?

the bend, don't break days

or like i use to say. bend, bend, bend, bend, bend, NOW TRY NOT TO BREAK!


2010 Packers

#2 Scoring Defense
#5 Yards Defense
#6 Turnovers
#4 First Downs Allowed
#4 Passing Touchdowns Allowed
#2 Interceptions
#2 Rushing Touchdowns Allowed
#2 Sacks

I think you may be thinking about 2011 when we went 15-1 due to offense but gave up a lot of defensive yards.

[Guiness]

DITTO; while I continue to believe Capers has done a decent job, I am fine with the logistics it's time to move on as well. No DC could have done anything with all of the talent mismatches we had on the field today though.

We need a lot more talent on defense

There's a lot of money and talent on that defense. I keep hearing 'having to use a UDFA to cover Jones'. There was a first and second round choice on the field at CB. Not playing well to be sure, but the 'talent' was out there.

[red]

There's a lot of money and talent on that defense. I keep hearing 'having to use a UDFA to cover Jones'. There was a first and second round choice on the field at CB. Not playing well to be sure, but the 'talent' was out there.

like i said in the GDT yesterday

we had 6 first round picks on the field yesterday on defense (our first round picks, 7 if you include peppers)

[Carolina_Packer]

I just heard on Mike and Mike this morning that 7 of 11 Falcons starters on defense are either first or second year players. They clearly have found some fast athletes on that side of the ball who have learned to come together in Quinn's scheme fairly quickly. What I recall from him being in Seattle is that he wanted to keep things simple and let the defenders react. They are not yet a great defense, but they show signs of building a very good one. Damn, I'm jealous. We play a lot of youth as well, but our 2015 first rounder, while possibly bothered by his groin surgery during the season looks lost in coverage. I sure hope he can develop more of a feel for the game and be able to take his game to a higher level. It looks like the mental part of the game is too fast for him to process, and he gives up way too much cushion the way he plays off the receiver. Does he do that because his groin is not really healed properly and he can't cut like he would when healthy? I guess that's possible. We'll see when he's back to full strength next season. Their secondary needs some better injury luck next year, and an infusion of talent.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I just heard on Mike and Mike this morning that 7 of 11 Falcons starters on defense are either first or second year players. They clearly have found some fast athletes on that side of the ball who have learned to come together in Quinn's scheme fairly quickly. What I recall from him being in Seattle is that he wanted to keep things simple and let the defenders react. They are not yet a great defense, but they show signs of building a very good one. Damn, I'm jealous. We play a lot of youth as well, but our 2015 first rounder, while possibly bothered by his groin surgery during the season looks lost in coverage. I sure hope he can develop more of a feel for the game and be able to take his game to a higher level. It looks like the mental part of the game is too fast for him to process, and he gives up way too much cushion the way he plays off the receiver. Does he do that because his groin is not really healed properly and he can't cut like he would when healthy? I guess that's possible. We'll see when he's back to full strength next season. Their secondary needs some better injury luck next year, and an infusion of talent.

That's been one of the bigger problems between Capers and TT and why they are not a good match. If Capers' system runs best with vets, he cannot be aligned with a GM who lives by the draft and develop philosophy.

[red]

That's been one of the bigger problems between Capers and TT and why they are not a good match. If Capers' system runs best with vets, he cannot be aligned with a GM who lives by the draft and develop philosophy.

DING DING DING

[Freak Out]

This packer team just lost the NFCC game. They've won a sb with this coaching staff. The problem was players, not coaching. RB and CB hurt this team this year. Good team, but need to do a little better.

How much pressure did they generate on Ryan yesterday?

[RashanGary]

The ball came out so fast. That was the problem. If they smothered routes, he would have had to hold it, but time after time instant releases and we couldn't stop it.

[Freak Out]

The ball came out so fast. That was the problem. If they smothered routes, he would have had to hold it, but time after time instant releases and we couldn't stop it.

Yep...and when they tried to pressure it ended up costing them.

[red]

and our offense looks its best when a-rod gets the ball out fast too

why fat mike and a-rod keep reverting back to the long slow developing plays is beyond me

[RashanGary]

Yep...and when they tried to pressure it ended up costing them.

I think it was a combo of really bad corner play, bad ILB play (nobody ever having any instincts on those quick slants) and so/so pass rush. It seemed to me like they hit him a few times and got close many others. Perry, Matthews and Daniels are solid pass rushers but 52 is injured. We could use one more young one to work with Matthews and Perry and replace Peppers. We desperately need a corner and 23 needs to bounce back really well heathy and after the offseason. I think we need a stud ILB too. Those three things and I think we could be a top 5-10 defense.

[Freak Out]

Ok....fuck it. Is it really time to let a new GM take over and roll with this thing? I am always hesitant to change in this way but fuck it!

[red]

I think it was a combo of really bad corner play, bad ILB play (nobody ever having any instincts on those quick slants) and so/so pass rush. It seemed to me like they hit him a few times and got close many others. Perry, Matthews and Daniels are solid pass rushers but 52 is injured. We could use one more young one to work with Matthews and Perry and replace Peppers. We desperately need a corner and 23 needs to bounce back really well heathy and after the offseason. I think we need a stud ILB too. Those three things and I think we could be a top 5-10 defense.

we've been leaving the middle of the field open since the super bowl season, no matter who the ILBs are

i just chaulk it up to being a part of capers system

and when isn't clay hurt, he's always hurt, he always will be hurt. might be time to move on from him if he can't learn how to play hurt. he's like shields. sam is one head bounce off the turf from being lost for the year, clay is one split end away from being a shit player for the year

you can't build a team around guys that you hope might stay healthy next year for the first time in many years

[texaspackerbacker]

Back to the original post in the thread, YES we are wasting Aaron Rodgers' superb talent - in numerous ways. However, Dom Capers absolutely is NOT the problem. Rather, Dom has been an inadequate solution to the problem of mediocre personnel on defense. How many times do I have to say it, without Capers' scheming and compensating, we would be even more screwed on defense than we have been. So many other teams have so much more success drafting defensive players, and we basically don't. Whether it's white LBs or pint-sized Corners or project/tweener D Lineman or whatever, Ted Thompson has just had a long term pattern of not picking winners like virtually every other team in the league does. The same is true for most other positions, but this thread is about defense.

[woodbuck27]

We got hammered at 2 positions - CB and RB. It also didn't help to get an early bye this year. We've been going nonstop since week 4. You could see the guys were running out of gas once we got behind by 2 scores. We've been playing playoff type games for 2 months and we finally collapsed.

You make solid points here.

[Deputy Nutz]

A complete overall of the front office and most likely the coaching staff is a bold move after losing an NFC Championship game

[pbmax]

The question is why?

If someone asked me what do successful post-season and Super Bowl teams have in common, I'd say a devastating pass rush. We see it every year? We saw it yesterday where the difference was Atlanta's pass rush was in Arod's face all afternoon.

So, if this is true and not a figment of my aging imagination, somebody in GB has to do something to make our pass rush get home. It's like Tex said, we have a "warning track" pass rush...we almost get home but not quite.

Whether we need better players or better schemes or a switch to 4-3, I don't know. But the status quo is unacceptable.

1. Lack of pass rush talent. There isn't anyone who messes up their protection scheme or demands double teaming anymore.
2. Timing, when Packers blitzed, Ryan had throws available to him early enough that he could get the ball out.
3. Coverage, when receivers come open that fast, not much you can do.

The solution, which was Capers basic game plan the last two months, is to apply steady pressure and regular blitzing to force the ball to be thrown quick to anticipated areas. When the backside of the zone could not hold up, they went man and Jones was open.

There was a Falcons regular season game at Lambeau and the Packers dissected the Falcons in the first half. In the second, House got hurt and the backups hand to handle Jones with safety help over the top. He nearly brought the team back in the game. (might have been Shields who got hurt and House came in)

For this game, with Randall performing at less than adequate levels, they were one functional CB short.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Back to the original post in the thread, YES we are wasting Aaron Rodgers' superb talent - in numerous ways. However, Dom Capers absolutely is NOT the problem. Rather, Dom has been an inadequate solution to the problem of mediocre personnel on defense. How many times do I have to say it, without Capers' scheming and compensating, we would be even more screwed on defense than we have been. So many other teams have so much more success drafting defensive players, and we basically don't. Whether it's white LBs or pint-sized Corners or project/tweener D Lineman or whatever, Ted Thompson has just had a long term pattern of not picking winners like virtually every other team in the league does. The same is true for most other positions, but this thread is about defense.Elite pass rushers are the most demanded of all players in the draft. Thus, they are long gone by the time we pick. TT is going to have to trade up to get a Von Miller-type guy.

[pbmax]

The question is why?

If someone asked me what do successful post-season and Super Bowl teams have in common, I'd say a devastating pass rush. We see it every year? We saw it yesterday where the difference was Atlanta's pass rush was in Arod's face all afternoon.

So, if this is true and not a figment of my aging imagination, somebody in GB has to do something to make our pass rush get home. It's like Tex said, we have a "warning track" pass rush...we almost get home but not quite.

Whether we need better players or better schemes or a switch to 4-3, I don't know. But the status quo is unacceptable.

There are two personnel changes you need to make to switch between the forms, though having Elephants probably really only makes that one (strong OLB).

But nothing about the 4-3 helps your pass rush on base downs unless down lineman are better pass rushers than the OLB you pushed out to the TE.

I think its mainly personnel.

[Deputy Nutz]

Elite pass rushers are the most demanded of all players in the draft. Thus, they are long gone by the time we pick. TT is going to have to trade up to get a Von Miller-type guy.

Elite anything is pretty much gone by the time the Packers draft. What you expect is solid, you hope for elite, and pray you don't get fucked.

[pbmax]

The Falcon stripped the ball out of there. That happens. I'm not gonna rip on Rip.

When you have guys all over you back and legs, you have to cover the ball and fall down when attacked because you are vulnerable. He had a first down, the next yard wasn't worth the risk.

I know, easy to say in hindsight, but two hands over ball make that mistake disappear.

[pbmax]

didn't we give up a ton of yards every game that year, but also ended up with a ton of takeaways?

the bend, don't break days

or like i use to say. bend, bend, bend, bend, bend, NOW TRY NOT TO BREAK!

The big yardage/takeaway year was 2011. 2010 the Packers were top 7 in yardage allowed and better in points.

[Guiness]

i wouldn't say we got "hammered" at running back

we lost our starter, thats it

starks was worthless when healthy early on and should have been replaced right off the bat

losing lacy was big, but a lot of teams lose their #1 rb's

and at CB, we lost our #1, but IMO we should have known that he was probably done last year when he took forever to get over his last concussion. and like RB, we had our #2 and 3 healthy at the beggining of the year and they already looked lost before any injuries

It was a worse than that. Crockett was supposed to be the 3rd string, but landed on IR at then end of camp. Don Jackson was called up from the practice squad, lasted less than a half and off to IR he went.

Crockett and Jackson may or may not have worked out, but it still means their first four choices at the position were not available.

[red]

1. Lack of pass rush talent. There isn't anyone who messes up their protection scheme or demands double teaming anymore.
2. Timing, when Packers blitzed, Ryan had throws available to him early enough that he could get the ball out.
3. Coverage, when receivers come open that fast, not much you can do when you're playing 15 yards off the line of scrimage

The solution, which was Capers basic game plan the last two months, is to apply steady pressure and regular blitzing to force the ball to be thrown quick to anticipated areas. When the backside of the zone could not hold up, they went man and Jones was open.

There was a Falcons regular season game at Lambeau and the Packers dissected the Falcons in the first half. In the second, House got hurt and the backups hand to handle Jones with safety help over the top. He nearly brought the team back in the game. (might have been Shields who got hurt and House came in)

For this game, with Randall performing at less than adequate levels, they were one functional CB short.

there, i fixed it for you

[LEWCWA]

Things get tough when you don't execute and let the other team get out to a big lead.....Going in everyone knew it was going to be a game that took scoring in the 30's to win. Putting up 0 in the first 2 drives was the death knell for this team....they needed to just hang around by scoring and they didn't...we all knew it going in.....had they hung around early...they had a couple opportunities for turnovers in the first half....they didn't keep hanging around and didn't make the plays when they were there....This D has been making those plays lately, just not yesterday. The NFL has gone to high scoring and limiting what D's can do.....I feel the O let this team down and the D got torched like we thought they would....I tell you what, better O limits that though.

[pbmax]

there, i fixed it for you

Its true sometimes, young ones sometimes forget to take the down and distance into consideration.

There is nothing prettier than a short pass thrown to a guy in the middle who is converged on by two tacklers short of the sticks.

There is nothing more enraging that a TE who is sitting on the first down marker in a hole with no one in front of him.

[red]

Its true sometimes, young ones sometimes forget to take the down and distance into consideration.

There is nothing prettier than a short pass thrown to a guy in the middle who is converged on by two tacklers short of the sticks.

There is nothing more enraging that a TE who is sitting on the first down marker in a hole with no one in front of him.

i was just reading an article a guy wrote a few days ago talking about how randall has completely lost his confidence. either through injury or from getting burned deep (which did happen to him a few times last year), he seems to be playing deep and willing to give up everything in order to prevent the long play

[yetisnowman]

A competent D was hard pressed to keep this team at 33 points the week before.

1)We were talking about the game yesterday in relation to the statement that "No one was beating that team yesterday"
2)The Seahawks defense is a shell of its former self.

You guys want to create the narrative that we ran into a immovable force yesterday that's fine. I know what I saw. We missed multiple opportunities at turnovers, gave up a ton of 3rd and long conversions, tackled like garbage, and had mind numbing confusion and coverage gaffes. It was an atrocious defensive performance. As I said a competent mediocre defense keeps that a close game .

[woodbuck27]

When you have guys all over you back and legs, you have to cover the ball and fall down when attacked because you are vulnerable. He had a first down, the next yard wasn't worth the risk.

I know, easy to say in hindsight, but two hands over ball make that mistake disappear.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9SnN3KjFgmw

I am not sure that is being fair to Aaron Ripkowski as it at least appears (see approx. 35 seconds) as if before Jalen Collins strips Rip he is trying to get two hands over the ball.

That is all moot IMO as there was still 11 minutes remaining in the 2nd Qtr. and Atlanta took the ball on offence deep in their own territory with the score at 10-0 and lots of game left.

[Rutnstrut]

When you have guys all over you back and legs, you have to cover the ball and fall down when attacked because you are vulnerable. He had a first down, the next yard wasn't worth the risk.

I know, easy to say in hindsight, but two hands over ball make that mistake disappear.

He had 2 hands over the ball on a lot of that run. Near the end someone yanks one of his arms back and off the ball in a tackle attempt. The strip then happens next from the side he has protecting the ball yet. It was a great play by the Atlanta Defense. You know, the kind of great plays that the Packer D rarely if ever make anymore.

After watching this play many times again. I see he did NOT have 2 hands on it. He was attempting to, but it was too little too late. So I go back to my original reaction from the GDT. That's what you get for relying on non RB's for your running game. Yes I know he's a FB, but he's really a slightly smaller lineman that lines up in the backfield.

[vince]

You guys want to create the narrative that we ran into a immovable force yesterday that's fine. I know what I saw. We missed multiple opportunities at turnovers, gave up a ton of 3rd and long conversions, tackled like garbage, and had mind numbing confusion and coverage gaffes. It was an atrocious defensive performance. As I said a competent mediocre defense keeps that a close game .

Things get tough when you don't execute and let the other team get out to a big lead.....Going in everyone knew it was going to be a game that took scoring in the 30's to win. Putting up 0 in the first 2 drives was the death knell for this team....they needed to just hang around by scoring and they didn't...we all knew it going in.....had they hung around early...they had a couple opportunities for turnovers in the first half....they didn't keep hanging around and didn't make the plays when they were there....This D has been making those plays lately, just not yesterday. The NFL has gone to high scoring and limiting what D's can do.....I feel the O let this team down and the D got torched like we thought they would....I tell you what, better O limits that though.
I agree with most of both of these. And we saw how the league's most explosive offense on their own track will make teams pay when all that happens.

[pbmax]

He had 2 hands over the ball on a lot of that run. Near the end someone yanks one of his arms back and off the ball in a tackle attempt. The strip then happens next from the side he has protecting the ball yet. It was a great play by the Atlanta Defense. You know, the kind of great plays that the Packer D rarely if ever make anymore.

After watching this play many times again. I see he did NOT have 2 hands on it. He was attempting to, but it was too little too late. So I go back to my original reaction from the GDT. That's what you get for relying on non RB's for your running game. Yes I know he's a FB, but he's really a slightly smaller lineman that lines up in the backfield.

He's been a RB since college. He knows. Its been a problem this season, using the off hand to balance himself. Not his first time with this issue.

[pbmax]

1)We were talking about the game yesterday in relation to the statement that "No one was beating that team yesterday"
2)The Seahawks defense is a shell of its former self.

You guys want to create the narrative that we ran into a immovable force yesterday that's fine. I know what I saw. We missed multiple opportunities at turnovers, gave up a ton of 3rd and long conversions, tackled like garbage, and had mind numbing confusion and coverage gaffes. It was an atrocious defensive performance. As I said a competent mediocre defense keeps that a close game .

I guess we are just disagreeing about the amount of imagination flex the words "could win" allow.

Even if the Packers played Seahawks level defense (road variety), which they had not since Week 4, the offense would have needed five TDs or seven scoring drives if you kick FGs. Not sure the injured offense was going to do that yesterday.

[pbmax]

Final report on carnage:


Meanwhile, the Packers lost a whopping seven players — six of them starters — to injuries during the course of the game: Left guard Lane Taylor (knee), right guard T.J. Lang (foot), right tackle Bryan Bulaga (possible concussion), defensive back Micah Hyde (shoulder), inside linebacker Jake Ryan (shoulder), safety Kentrell Brice (shoulder) and running back Ty Montgomery (ribs). Brice and Montgomery came back briefly but then left the game again.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/football/professional/packers-banged-up-jordy-nelson-earns-aaron-rodgers-praise-by/article_6e6d219b-6757-51d1-823c-9bd182a473c9.html

[vince]

He's been a RB since college. He knows. Its been a problem this season, using the off hand to balance himself. Not his first time with this issue.
Are you talking about Ripkowski? Footballdb (http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?lg=NFL&yr=2016&type=reg&mode=M&conf=&limit=all) has him with 0 fumbles and 1 fumble recovery this year. Not sure how you can say that's a problem.

[Rutnstrut]

Montgomery has been hurt/nicked up in every game since he has become a RB I believe.

[pbmax]

Are you talking about Ripkowski? Footballdb (http://www.footballdb.com/stats/stats.html?lg=NFL&yr=2016&type=reg&mode=M&conf=&limit=all) has him with 0 fumbles and 1 fumble recovery this year. Not sure how you can say that's a problem.

He has had several carries with the Walter Payton loaf of bread hold and I have thought he was going to cough up. Its part of his style.

[red]

Final report on carnage:



http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/football/professional/packers-banged-up-jordy-nelson-earns-aaron-rodgers-praise-by/article_6e6d219b-6757-51d1-823c-9bd182a473c9.html

most of those guys were lost after the blowout was pretty much a lock

thought i would throw that out there before people start blaming the loss on losing those guys

just shows how pussified this team has become, we suffered about 15% casualties for one game

[ptisme]

Correct me if I'm wrong but we were only missing one starter on defense yesterday (Shields). Seven first rounders on that defense... 16 draft picks in the first four rounds on defense since 2012.. The defense is not good and the man in charge of it needs to go...

[vince]

He has had several carries with the Walter Payton loaf of bread hold and I have thought he was going to cough up. Its part of his style.
Now you're just trolling me. 34 carries 4.4 ypc 2 TD's and no mention of fumbling. Now he coughs one up and it's McCarthy's fault for giving him the ball in that situation because his ball security has been a problem the whole time? Someone else says, "How could Stubby give the ball to a lineman in that situation."

That hindsight-driven "analysis" seems reasonable to you?

[red]

Correct me if I'm wrong but we were only missing one starter on defense yesterday (Shields). Seven first rounders on that defense... 16 draft picks in the first four rounds on defense since 2012.. The defense is not good and the man in charge of it needs to go...

yeah pretty much

but people will say its because everyone else on defense was playing hurt, unlike atlantas D which i'm sure were all 100%

[Rutnstrut]

While the D needs to get the majority of the blame for yesterday. The offense was far from stellar against a mediocre at best Atlanta D. Atlanta was so injury riddled on defense earlier this season that they signed AJ Hawk.

[Bretsky]

Very. Here's another one that yours prompted me to look up...

The Packers gave up 42+ 3 times in the last 11 games.
In the 15 Brady years (267 games, since 2001) the Pats have never given up 42+.


ONLY ONE HOODY GENIUS; WE COULD TRADE OUR WHOLE DRAFT FOR HIM....IF...HE WASN"T THE GM TOO

[Bretsky]

Correct me if I'm wrong but we were only missing one starter on defense yesterday (Shields). Seven first rounders on that defense... 16 draft picks in the first four rounds on defense since 2012.. The defense is not good and the man in charge of it needs to go...


Sounds to me like we made a lot of crappy 1st round draft picks on defense......TOP OF HEAD......HOW MANY GOOD ONES DO YOU THROW OUT ??

Matthews
Ha Ha

A .333 batting average on first round draft picks is not good

[Bretsky]

out of all playoff teams this year, we ranked dead last in yards given up

for the season

we ranked 21st in points given up per game
22nd in yards per game
28th in yards given up per play
19th for 1st downs allowed per game
24th for third down %
24 for 4th down %
23rd for penalty yards


yeah, lets all talk about how we should keep capers


Dear Captain Obvious

Please print off the last 5 drafts and let me know how you think about our defensive selections.

[Bretsky]

to hammer that home

we needed to score 45 points, or 7 TD's or 6 td's and a FG. but we needed to score of at least 7 possessions

we had the ball 9 times

if we had settled for more then 1 FG, we would have had to score on all but 1 possession

so really, once rip fumbled, we had no chance to catch them


this is about spot on

[Bretsky]

Ok....fuck it. Is it really time to let a new GM take over and roll with this thing? I am always hesitant to change in this way but fuck it!

ANOTHER ON BOARD WITH MELVANIZATION !!!!!

[The Shadow]

I think Capers need to go. I'm fine with Ted.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think Capers need to go. I'm fine with Ted.

Get rid of Dom and his scheming and compensation, and this house of cards that Ted built to go along with our all world QB falls flat.

[Pugger]

Ok....fuck it. Is it really time to let a new GM take over and roll with this thing? I am always hesitant to change in this way but fuck it!

I'd rather try a new DC before we go for a new GM right now.

[Pugger]

Things get tough when you don't execute and let the other team get out to a big lead.....Going in everyone knew it was going to be a game that took scoring in the 30's to win. Putting up 0 in the first 2 drives was the death knell for this team....they needed to just hang around by scoring and they didn't...we all knew it going in.....had they hung around early...they had a couple opportunities for turnovers in the first half....they didn't keep hanging around and didn't make the plays when they were there....This D has been making those plays lately, just not yesterday. The NFL has gone to high scoring and limiting what D's can do.....I feel the O let this team down and the D got torched like we thought they would....I tell you what, better O limits that though.

But no matter how good your O is they aren't gonna play lights out every week and this is why you need half way decent defense to compensate when your offense has an off day. Considering the state of this team right now unless Rodgers plays lights out we lose and lose big.

[Freak Out]

ANOTHER ON BOARD WITH MELVANIZATION !!!!!

I'm down. Do it now.

[Freak Out]

I'd rather try a new DC before we go for a new GM right now.

I think M3 needs to go as well.

[pbmax]

Now you're just trolling me. 34 carries 4.4 ypc 2 TD's and no mention of fumbling. Now he coughs one up and it's McCarthy's fault for giving him the ball in that situation because his ball security has been a problem the whole time? Someone else says, "How could Stubby give the ball to a lineman in that situation."

That hindsight-driven "analysis" seems reasonable to you?

I am not saying he is a terrible RB vince. But I have noticed before that he carries the ball one handed and away from his body a lot when he is in mixed traffic. I don't have any videos of this to post, I am just saying that I have observed this. Several times I remember being worried about a fumble that seemed like it was about to occur.

He does understand ball security, because he doesn't do this in short yardage or when he makes direct frontal contact. Then, like the very end of his run Sunday, he gets the second arm in there.

But for a non speedy full back who wants to carry defenders for a yard or two, that has to happen quicker. Because the second guy in will go for the ball like the Falcon did.

[LEWCWA]

But no matter how good your O is they aren't gonna play lights out every week and this is why you need half way decent defense to compensate when your offense has an off day. Considering the state of this team right now unless Rodgers plays lights out we lose and lose big.

I don't know, they score 10 on the first 2 drives instead of 0 and get either the fumbled snap or the int. in the endzone and this is a totally different game....We know the D isn't spectacular, we know the nfl by rule favors offense, we have a great offense. The offense dropped the ball by not scoring and keeping this team in the game.....They didn't have to be other worldly, they were at the door both drives....they failed.....offense can protect a def. ours didn't sunday. I like our chances of getting a stop or 2 better if the game isn't completely out of hand.....

[yetisnowman]

I guess we are just disagreeing about the amount of imagination flex the words "could win" allow.

Even if the Packers played Seahawks level defense (road variety), which they had not since Week 4, the offense would have needed five TDs or seven scoring drives if you kick FGs. Not sure the injured offense was going to do that yesterday.

A much more depleted offense scored 32 and had a chance to score more with the game in its waning moments. It should have been 10-10 and us kicking off. Much different than down 10-0 with them having the ball after a TO. Atlanta was not unbeatable on Sunday we just made then look that way.

[pbmax]

A much more depleted offense scored 32 and had a chance to score more with the game in its waning moments. It should have been 10-10 and us kicking off. Much different than down 10-0 with them having the ball after a TO. Atlanta was not unbeatable on Sunday we just made then look that way.

I can see that in the second half to a degree, but Atlanta changed their approach. They started to stall.

I don't think Atlanta is at all 23 points better than the Packers. But like the Carolina game last year, the Packers weren't going to come out on top of this one even if you grant them 10 points in the first half.