Hypothetical DC Change

[call_me_ishmael]

I don't think Dom is gonna get let go, but who are the up and coming coordinator candidates if he would be?

[vince]

Here's the best list I found of up-and-comer types. (http://www.deepishthoughts.com/top-nfl-coordinator-candidates/)
Vrabel stands out to me. Bellicheck lineage all the way through Houston.


Jerome Henderson, DB coach, Atlanta

Technically Henderson is the “defensive passing game coordinator,” but he’s been a DB coach in the past. He’s a bright coach who’s already interviewed for a head coaching job before. He may get there eventually, but becoming a DC first would seem to be a next logical step.

Mike Pettine, former HC, Cleveland

Say what you want about Pettine’s time in Cleveland (bad head coach? or doomed by a bad front office?) Either way, the man has a great resume as a defensive coordinator dating back to his days with the Jets and Bills. He may be more expensive than the other members on this list, but he’s a great pick for a head coach that wants to hand over the reins to his defense to a veteran coach.

Steve Wilks, DB coach, Carolina

Wilks is respected enough in Carolina to earn the “assistant head coach” tag in addition to his DB duties. Like Jerome Henderson, he has all the markings of a future head coach — all he needs now is a little more on his resume. A DC role makes sense.

Mike Vrabel, LB coach, Houston

Perhaps the hottest assistant in the NFL, Vrabel actually turned down the DC job in San Francisco last year. Looking back at it, that decision should be another feather in his cap. Chances are he may wait for the perfect job (a promotion in Houston or taking over for Matt Patricia in New England), but he’ll have an opportunity whenever he wants.

Cory Undlin, DB coach, Philadelphia

This is more of an under-the-radar pick because the veteran DB coach Undlin hasn’t gotten much national recognition so far. However, he’s done quality work in Denver and now Philadelphia and is respected around league circles.

other candidates

Rocky Seto (SEA), Pepper Johnson (DL-NYJ), LB Gary Gibbs (LB-KC), Jerry Gray (DB-MIN)

[Upnorth]

Pettine brings the 4-3 base, and I don't know if we have the horses up front for that.
Wilkes is interesting as a former db coach who maximized Norman. And we need to maximize our db's as we always get thrown on.
If Vrabel picked up even 50% of Belichick I would love to see him as well, plus lb's seem like a continous underdeveloped asset here.

[gbgary]

what's kevin green been up too?

[red]

Isn't wade phillips available?

[Joemailman]

Isn't wade phillips available?

No. Rams hired him already.

[pbmax]

what's kevin green been up too?

Not in a million years. He is Mike Singletary.

[Tony Oday]

Lets Fire Dom, then rehire him, he is always good the first couple of years ;)

[Joemailman]

Pettine brings the 4-3 base, and I don't know if we have the horses up front for that.
Wilkes is interesting as a former db coach who maximized Norman. And we need to maximize our db's as we always get thrown on.
If Vrabel picked up even 50% of Belichick I would love to see him as well, plus lb's seem like a continous underdeveloped asset here.

Packers probably have the guys inside for a 4-3. I've always thought Daniels was probably a more natural fit for a 4-3. Clark and Guion can play Nose. Perry could probably play DE. Not sure about Matthews. Jones also might be a more natural fit as a 4-3 DE. I'm just not sure he's a player no matter what scheme you use.

[gbgary]

Not in a million years. He is Mike Singletary.

so...it's not time?




Lets Fire Dom, then rehire him, he is always good the first couple of years ;)

:-)

[Bretsky]

I'll take Vrabel; he's a winner

If he's 1/20th as smart as Hoodie Genius he'll be the best coach we've ever had

[ThunderDan]

I'll take Vrabel; he's a winner

If he's 1/20th as smart as Hoodie Genius he'll be the best coach we've ever had

Wow, I would put Lombardi's record at GB against any coach ever in the history of the NFL.

[George Cumby]

Is Fangio employed?

[texaspackerbacker]

Any of those mentioned would be a significant step downward from Dom Capers, given the talent the Packers have to work with. Just about anybody can be a good DC if you have super talent - Seattle of the past few years for example. If you don't have that or even close, though, it takes scheming and compensating, and NOBODY does that better than Dom. In the spirit of the thread, however, I will submit a name - one who is sorta a disciple of Dom: Dave Aranda.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'll take Vrabel; he's a winner

If he's 1/20th as smart as Hoodie Genius he'll be the best coach we've ever had

Belichek is a genius in the same sense that Urban Myer, Pete Carroll, etc. are - HE CHEATS.

[pbmax]

so...it's not time?





:-)

Nope. :D

[pbmax]

Is Fangio employed?

Yeah, he survived the Bears season unfortunately.

They could hire Aranda away from LSU for something just under what McCarthy makes I bet :lol:

[pbmax]

Lets Fire Dom, then rehire him, he is always good the first couple of years ;)

The problem with this thread is that this is the best idea so far.

[pbmax]

Packers probably have the guys inside for a 4-3. I've always thought Daniels was probably a more natural fit for a 4-3. Clark and Guion can play Nose. Perry could probably play DE. Not sure about Matthews. Jones also might be a more natural fit as a 4-3 DE. I'm just not sure he's a player no matter what scheme you use.

The Packers use a 4-3 under front with 3-4 personnel. Peppers, Matthews and Perry all play over the TE, the change here would be disrupting him and dropping into coverage.

Daniels DOES play 3 technique already. And Guion and Clark play 1 or 0 technique.

Changing to a 4-3 would not change the alignment much. One more guy might have hand in the dirt unless they go with a 2 point elephant.

The problem would be finding a power end (eg. Reggie White versus Datone Jones) and a true MLB. Thomas or Martinez could play weak side.

[Teamcheez1]

Here we sit 4 days later and nothing but silence from the Packer brass. Do they really feel no coaching changes are in order?

[Rutnstrut]

Here we sit 4 days later and nothing but silence from the Packer brass. Do they really feel no coaching changes are in order?

They are probably way to busy patting themselves on the back.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Maybe they do have someone in mind on the Atl or NE staffs and want to wait until after the SB.

Or more likely not... But a guy can dream.

[Upnorth]

Same coordinator, same players, dramatic difference. Before laying it all on dom think about the injury difference

http://https://www.profootballfocus.com/pro-packers-need-to-solve-their-secondary-issues-this-offseason/

[Teamcheez1]

Injuries always make a great excuse. The Patriots are in the SB without Gronkowski.

[texaspackerbacker]

Here we sit 4 days later and nothing but silence from the Packer brass. Do they really feel no coaching changes are in order?

Unless everybody is changed i.e. McCarthy is gone, which isn't gonna happen, then nobody should go. As pbmax said in a roundabout way, none of the names mentioned is any better than what we have, and flexing between 3-4/4-3/elephant/whatever - as needed to compensate, we already have the master of that. What's with all the bullshit about getting rid of him?

[Joemailman]

The problem is not that Dom's defenses aren't great. The problem is that 3 times in 8 years the defense has given up 40+ points in a playoff game. When that happens, you don't even have a chance to win.

[red]

The problem with this thread is that this is the best idea so far.

It's really not a bad idea cause we all know what he said is true

[pbmax]

The problem is not that Dom's defenses aren't great. The problem is that 3 times in 8 years the defense has given up 40+ points in a playoff game. When that happens, you don't even have a chance to win.

Exactly. Which is why they need to dump the complex stuff and play something they all can play from rote memory. Even if it can't shut down an elite defense, it might slow them down.

Wilde put out feelers for questions for today's PC and the best he said he got was "You have said you need a championship defense, what is preventing that?"

I sent he should follow up with this suggestion: "You have said the Defense needs to put its best players into a position to excel with subgroups, packages, etc. Does that blow up in your face when you get injuries, since the backups don't have the same strengths?"

[gbgary]

it ain't happenin. if you heard MM's season ending presser he was pretty emphatic that Dom is secure. to paraphrase MM: he did a fantastic job under the conditions.

[bobblehead]

They are probably way to busy patting themselves on the back.

Why wouldn't they. Made the NFCC game with their best CB lost, best defensive player injured, 2nd CB injured, 3rd CB out. Not a bad showing overall.

[texaspackerbacker]

Exactly. Which is why they need to dump the complex stuff and play something they all can play from rote memory. Even if it can't shut down an elite defense, it might slow them down.

Wilde put out feelers for questions for today's PC and the best he said he got was "You have said you need a championship defense, what is preventing that?"

I sent he should follow up with this suggestion: "You have said the Defense needs to put its best players into a position to excel with subgroups, packages, etc. Does that blow up in your face when you get injuries, since the backups don't have the same strengths?"

no no no! If you get rid of the complex stuff with the personnel Ted has provided for us, we'll probably give up 40+ points just about every game and not even make the playoffs.

Why have we given up those 40+ games in the playoffs? Playing good teams has something to do with it. Opponents being smart enough to adjust to our scheming late in the season is also a cause. Our mediocre personnel on D is the primary cause, though.

[MadtownPacker]

Shit I must have not set the expiration right on Partials ban. Don't expect any responses from him until the summer.

Of course he will make another account and then the ban will double if not triple.

Lesson for the kids, don't bring up personal shit.

[Rutnstrut]

Why wouldn't they. Made the NFCC game with their best CB lost, best defensive player injured, 2nd CB injured, 3rd CB out. Not a bad showing overall.

So you are saying they should keep doing the same exact things and HOPE they get lucky some year as far as injuries? So what happens when Dom's D fails hard with a healthy team? Oh wait that has happened before and yet Dom is still there. I do agree that with all the right players, Dom could do well. But most D coordinators could in that situation. But that will never happen either as TT will not do what it takes to give Dom all the tools he needs.

[RashanGary]

So you are saying they should keep doing the same exact things and HOPE they get lucky some year as far as injuries? So what happens when Dom's D fails hard with a healthy team? Oh wait that has happened before and yet Dom is still there. I do agree that with all the right players, Dom could do well. But most D coordinators could in that situation. But that will never happen either as TT will not do what it takes to give Dom all the tools he needs.

New England went 10 years without a SB but were always close, then won it. So, um, yes please. Some more of the same please.

[Freak Out]

Shit I must have not set the expiration right on Partials ban. Don't expect any responses from him until the summer.

Of course he will make another account and then the ban will double if not triple.

Lesson for the kids, don't bring up personal shit.

Damn....what did I miss?

[KYPack]

Shit I must have not set the expiration right on Partials ban. Don't expect any responses from him until the summer.

Of course he will make another account and then the ban will double if not triple.

Lesson for the kids, don't bring up personal shit.

Mas info,

What the hell did I miss?

Always ID which one is Partial so we can razz him and rib him and shit.

[ThunderDan]

Here we sit 4 days later and nothing but silence from the Packer brass. Do they really feel no coaching changes are in order?

GB is one of the most thorough in self-evaluation. I am not sure how you do year-end player reviews and coach reviews in 4 days.

If changes come it will be next week at the earliest.

[pbmax]

no no no! If you get rid of the complex stuff with the personnel Ted has provided for us, we'll probably give up 40+ points just about every game and not even make the playoffs.

Why have we given up those 40+ games in the playoffs? Playing good teams has something to do with it. Opponents being smart enough to adjust to our scheming late in the season is also a cause. Our mediocre personnel on D is the primary cause, though.

I would agree with you if I had thought Dom had fooled anyone in the last 2 years. Just doesn't happen much anymore, doesn't happen at all when he has youngsters in there.

He needs to simplify, play those basic D's better and then add it complexity as the season goes on and he knows who it healthy. Also need to be able to zone and man to man at any point.

[texaspackerbacker]

Shit I must have not set the expiration right on Partials ban. Don't expect any responses from him until the summer.

Of course he will make another account and then the ban will double if not triple.

Lesson for the kids, don't bring up personal shit.

Aw, give him a break. He may be wrong all the time, and he may insult some people - me included, but he makes FYI more interesting.

You guys that missed it must not be following FYI hahahaha.

[texaspackerbacker]

I would agree with you if I had thought Dom had fooled anyone in the last 2 years. Just doesn't happen much anymore, doesn't happen at all when he has youngsters in there.

He needs to simplify, play those basic D's better and then add it complexity as the season goes on and he knows who it healthy. Also need to be able to zone and man to man at any point.

How exactly are you gonna simplify things without giving up the blitz packages, etc. that we do to compensate for inadequate personnel? I'd agree with you if we could do that. If we just lined up and tried to stop 'em, it wouldn't be pretty. I don't think the occasional problems we have had, especially in the playoffs are due to Packer players getting confused by the complexity. It's just that when you play the compensation game - as we need to, you open up something else to your opponent and just hope they can't outguess you.

Blame Ted, not Dom.

[Cheesehead Craig]

How exactly are you gonna simplify things without giving up the blitz packages, etc. that we do to compensate for inadequate personnel? I'd agree with you if we could do that. If we just lined up and tried to stop 'em, it wouldn't be pretty. I don't think the occasional problems we have had, especially in the playoffs are due to Packer players getting confused by the complexity. It's just that when you play the compensation game - as we need to, you open up something else to your opponent and just hope they can't outguess you.

Blame Ted, not Dom.

The problem is that his complex scheme doesn't work with the personnel. There's seemingly a DB or LB completely clueless on every play as to what their responsibility is. It's a coaches job to make things work for the personnel, not the other way around, especially when they haven't demonstrated that they grasp what's being called. You hear all the time about how defenses get turned around by the coaches and players saying that things were simplified and that gave them more confidence as to what is going on. Allows them to play vs think.

Seeing that the players couldn't do some of his plans should have clued him in to stop calling those and come up with something better suited for what he was dealt. That's just poor coaching on his part.

[gbgary]

How exactly are you gonna simplify things without giving up the blitz packages, etc. that we do to compensate for inadequate personnel? I'd agree with you if we could do that. If we just lined up and tried to stop 'em, it wouldn't be pretty. I don't think the occasional problems we have had, especially in the playoffs are due to Packer players getting confused by the complexity. It's just that when you play the compensation game - as we need to, you open up something else to your opponent and just hope they can't outguess you.

Blame Ted, not Dom.

yup (to a point). poor secondary is bad, poor pass rush is bad, but suffering from both is terminal unless your o can score every possession. we got away with it for a while...then the o blinked.

[Deputy Nutz]

Who cares at this point if they keep him or fire him. The personnel on that side of the ball is as thin as the hair on top of SkinBasket's head.

[woodbuck27]

Wow, I would put Lombardi's record at GB against any coach ever in the history of the NFL.

We are talking about now ThunderDan and how do we ever get back to another Super Bowl appearance. It is a different time the Modern-Now Era ThunderDan.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Belichick

Bill Belechick Career highlights and awards

6× Super Bowl champion (XXI, XXV, XXXVI, XXXVIII, XXXIX, XLIX) Note: He did that not might have done that. He will add another next Sunday.

3× AP NFL Coach of the Year (2003, 2007, 2010)

NFL 2000s All-Decade Team

Bill Belichick - Head coaching record

Regular season: 237–115 (.673); Postseason:24–10 (.706)

Career: 261–125 (.676)

Yes Vince Lombardi has very impressive stats.** We are well aware of that fact as Packer fans; but again that was in another time and with a decade of many HOF players to coach.

** Career highlights and awards

2× NFL Coach of the Year (1959, 1961)

2× Super Bowl champion (I, II); 6× NFL champion (1956, 1961, 1962, 1965–1967)

Career NFL statistics

Win–loss record: 96–34–6; Winning percentage:.719

Playoff record: 9–1; Overall record: 105–35–6 (Awesome)

By the way I have been reading the comments of other Packer fans and a general opinion right now is that the Green Bay Packers wil not win another Super Bowl with Dom Capers as the teams DC and unless Ted Thompson changes his conservative money thrift ways and his all in on a Draft and Develop approach this off season you can expect another season of no Super Bowl futility in 2017.

This morning I watched the video of Mike McCarthy putting his spin act on again and ''we were so close again...just one more win away and meeting our goal every season of winning the Super Bowl.'' With less adversity next season (2017) and less injuries (it sure looks like Sam Shields is finished ... Will Eddie Lacy make it turn around?). That MM spin is worn out.

Just one more win away? Will MM ever get to what is reality?

The Atlanta Falcons blew the Green Bay Packers away and pulled their foot off the offensive throttle in the Fourth Quarter or the score would have been embarassing.

The Green Bay Packers will NOT ever win another Super Bowl as it has been and TT and MM and Dom Capers.

[ThunderDan]

I'll take Vrabel; he's a winner

If he's 1/20th as smart as Hoodie Genius he'll be the best coach we've ever had

Actually Woody, if you read Bretsky's post and not just scanned it you wouldn't have posted the above. It specifically says best coach ever. Not today, ever!

Yes, I believe that Belichick is a best coach in the NFL right now. That is not what Bretsky posted.

[Packgator]

what's kevin green been up too?

NY Jets just hired him as outside linebackers coach.

[Pugger]

I'm gonna guess McCoach is going to keep Dom because he figures you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Perhaps instead of bitching about Capers we should be concentrating on Ted and his aversion to FA?

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm gonna guess McCoach is going to keep Dom because he figures you can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit. Perhaps instead of bitching about Capers we should be concentrating on Ted and his aversion to FA?

+1

[smuggler]

I don't think it's the approach TT's taken, per se, but the draft record. If you want to be a home-grown squad, you have to draft well. We haven't done terribly, but we're fielding an 8-8 to 10-6 squad and asking our MVP quarterback to make it happen. Doesn't happen often.

[Pugger]

I don't think it's the approach TT's taken, per se, but the draft record. If you want to be a home-grown squad, you have to draft well. We haven't done terribly, but we're fielding an 8-8 to 10-6 squad and asking our MVP quarterback to make it happen. Doesn't happen often.

But if Ted swings and misses on draft picks it wouldn't hurt to supplement that with a veteran FA instead of UDFAs. You can find gems here like Sam Shields but most of the time these kids weren't drafted for a reason.

[vince]

But if Ted swings and misses on draft picks it wouldn't hurt to supplement that with a veteran FA instead of UDFAs. You can find gems here like Sam Shields but most of the time these kids weren't drafted for a reason.
And most veteran FA's are veteran FA's for a reason - actually 2 reasons. They tend to be not worth keeping and/or are too expensive for their marginal talent, particularly to ride the pines waiting for injury.

The problem with how the salary cap is structured and how much the dozen or so core veterans command is that teams can't afford the journeymen vets to sit on the roster in case of injury, particularly when you consider that they probably won't produce much anyway even if they are unfortunately called into action.

[Bretsky]

But if Ted swings and misses on draft picks it wouldn't hurt to supplement that with a veteran FA instead of UDFAs. You can find gems here like Sam Shields but most of the time these kids weren't drafted for a reason.


:knll:

[pbmax]

I don't think it's the approach TT's taken, per se, but the draft record. If you want to be a home-grown squad, you have to draft well. We haven't done terribly, but we're fielding an 8-8 to 10-6 squad and asking our MVP quarterback to make it happen. Doesn't happen often.

He's done fine on offense. But the defense has been hit or miss too much. That has affected depth and when you have an injured defense, it suffers.

It still doesn't explain blown assignments and being able to play zone in Year 8 and Game 10.

[Pugger]

And most veteran FA's are veteran FA's for a reason - actually 2 reasons. They tend to be not worth keeping and/or are too expensive for their marginal talent, particularly to ride the pines waiting for injury.

The problem with how the salary cap is structured and how much the dozen or so core veterans command is that teams can't afford the journeymen vets to sit on the roster in case of injury, particularly when you consider that they probably won't produce much anyway even if they are unfortunately called into action.

True, but if you strike out on a draft pick it won't hurt to supplement your roster with a veteran as long as he doesn't cost a king's ransom. For some strange reason Ted has done a better job/luck picking offensive players over defensive ones the past few years.

[pbmax]

True, but if you strike out on a draft pick it won't hurt to supplement your roster with a veteran as long as he doesn't cost a king's ransom. For some strange reason Ted has done a better job/luck picking offensive players over defensive ones the past few years.

One problem, and Wolf among others wanted this changed, is the FA starts before the draft. You obviously aren't going to declare busts after the rookie minicamp, but it would make FA more orderly.

Which, of course, the players don't wish to happen.

[Fritz]

I'm actually more in the blame-Ted camp right now. Nick Perry, Datone Jones, etc. - first round picks that are not getting the pass rush pressure needed. Is it Dom's fault that Datone Jones can't beat a one-on-one block to get to the QB? Or that Perry, as good as he was, couldn't keep it up in the last couple of games? How many sacks did Jerel Worthy, the second round pick TT moved up for in 2012, have in the playoffs this year? Or Mike Daniels?

[pbmax]

I'm actually more in the blame-Ted camp right now. Nick Perry, Datone Jones, etc. - first round picks that are not getting the pass rush pressure needed. Is it Dom's fault that Datone Jones can't beat a one-on-one block to get to the QB? Or that Perry, as good as he was, couldn't keep it up in the last couple of games? How many sacks did Jerel Worthy, the second round pick TT moved up for in 2012, have in the playoffs this year? Or Mike Daniels?

Perry is the injury side of that equation. Jones is just good enough and not a difference maker.

Either would be fine of SOMEONE regularly made the QB piss his pants.

[Fritz]

My point is that as, first rounders, they were supposed to be the ones who made the QB piss his pants. Instead, especially with Jones, QB's have the luxury of pulling it out and leisurely pissing on Jones.

Perry with the injury, okay, but I'm a little leery of that, because then you're saying that ol' if it weren't to injuries to Matthews and Perry...both of whom get injured a lot.

[pbmax]

My point is that as, first rounders, they were supposed to be the ones who made the QB piss his pants. Instead, especially with Jones, QB's have the luxury of pulling it out and leisurely pissing on Jones.

Perry with the injury, okay, but I'm a little leery of that, because then you're saying that ol' if it weren't to injuries to Matthews and Perry...both of whom get injured a lot.

That happens though. Sometimes first rounders, especially at the backend, are just good enough to start. And that is OK as long as you get a freak at some point. At one point that may have been Matthews, but I am not sure he can do it any longer.

[red]

i think every one of us can agree on the idea that theres a problem on the defensive side of the ball

the debate is, does that burden fall on capers or TT

if TT keeps capers, he is admitting that he is the problem. if he fires capers, he blames capers

keeping things as is, again, is just not acceptable. something has to change

then we need to start talking about in years past, like with our debates about slocum. there is a problem, if the HC and GM can't/won't make a change, then we need to make bigger changes

[Bretsky]

My point is that as, first rounders, they were supposed to be the ones who made the QB piss his pants. Instead, especially with Jones, QB's have the luxury of pulling it out and leisurely pissing on Jones.

Perry with the injury, okay, but I'm a little leery of that, because then you're saying that ol' if it weren't to injuries to Matthews and Perry...both of whom get injured a lot.


Welcome to the Light :))

[Bretsky]

i think every one of us can agree on the idea that theres a problem on the defensive side of the ball

the debate is, does that burden fall on capers or TT

if TT keeps capers, he is admitting that he is the problem. if he fires capers, he blames capers

keeping things as is, again, is just not acceptable. something has to change

then we need to start talking about in years past, like with our debates about slocum. there is a problem, if the HC and GM can't/won't make a change, then we need to make bigger changes


Was anybody that much of a homer where they actually debated Slocum ?
I think most of us wanted to kidnap his kids and take them to the other side of the world so he had to leave :)