Official Vince Biegel 2017 Fourth Round Choice

[pbmax]

The first question is did the Packers scouts tell Ted he was a Badger?

Second is: does he play inside or outside? Lots of draftnik sites had him pegged for ILB.

OVERVIEW @NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/vince-biegel?id=2557906)
This two-time all-conference pick came from a football family. His father, Rocky, played linebacker at BYU while his uncle T.D. was a fullback for the Cougars. Vince's grandfather, Ken, played Division III ball and was a Wisconsin and national high school hall of fame coach. Coming from that lineage, it was no surprise Vince was the Wisconsin Gatorade Player of the Year as a senior (172 tackles, 21 sacks) and earned a scholarship to play for the Badgers. A foot injury ended his freshman season after two games, but he came on late the following year to start twice (25 tackles, three for loss, two sacks). Biegel led the Badgers with 16.5 tackles for loss (7.5 sacks) as a starter in 2014, and earned third-team All-Big Ten notice with 66 stops, 14 for loss, and eight sacks as a junior. Despite being limited for multiple games, missing two, with a broken foot, Biegel was a second-team All-Big Ten performer in 2016 (six TFL, four sacks).

STRENGTHS
Voted team captain. Known for intensity and all-out love for the sport. Instinctive. Diagnoses zone blocks quickly and darts through gaps into backfield to muddy backside cutback lanes. Works to keep outside shoulder uncovered for contain responsibilities against the run. Emotional leader for the Badgers. Wrap-up tackler looking to thud. Flashes desired pursuit speed to perimeter. First-strike specialist at point of attack. Lands hands first and immediate arm extension provides leverage against much bigger blockers. Adequate hip flexibility and change of direction to mirror play-action rollouts. Good run-pass recognition. Was asked to peel off and cover in space. Squeezes receivers from zone. Posted productive rush totals over sophomore and junior seasons. Father, uncle, grandfather and younger brother all played college ball.

WEAKNESSES
Undersized, and it often shows up on tape. Needs to increase play strength and add more bulk to his frame. Gets jostled around by tackles if he loses with his hands. Poor contact balance to fight through redirect blocks and can get shoved to turf. Average three-step burst upfield. Duck-foot rusher missing twitch and athleticism to bend the edge. Attempts to activate spin counter, but he's missing footwork to bring it home. "Take-on" anchor and power versus lead blockers is below average. Quick to stack, slow to shuck.

DRAFT PROJECTION Rounds 5-6

SOURCES TELL US "Has to get stronger. He's got great makeup and is a great teammate and leader. Medicals with his foot are worrisome. Could be a flag for him." -- Midwest regional scout for NFC team

NFL COMPARISON Frank Zombo

BOTTOM LINE Effort-based worker bee with edge-setting hands and attitude, but a lack of power that could lead to inconsistency in play. Biegel's football character is off-the-charts and he can be counted on to put the effort into improving in areas that need work. He lacks individual rush talent but could be a good fit for teams utilizing exotic rush packages. Average NFL ceiling but has the demeanor and traits of a potential special teams demon.

-Lance Zierlein

[pbmax]

CBS much higher on him

PLAYER OVERVIEW: Vince Biegel (http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1983821/vince-biegel)

A four-star recruit by ESPN, Rivals.com, Biegel ranked No. 73rd overall nationally by Rivals and the third overall outside linebacker in the country. Growing up Biegel help tend to his families cranberry marsh and learned the dedication needed to perfect a craft.
Hard work and attention to detail he learned in the marsh is the same dedication he shows playing linebacker. Biegel equaled the all-time school record by playing in 54 games that included 40 starts. He finished seventh in Badgers history 21.5 sacks and tenth with 39.5 tackles-for-loss. The four-time Academic All-Big Ten selection finished with 191 tackles in his career.

Biegel gave consideration last season to enter the NFL Draft, submitting his paperwork to the NFL Draft advisory board which revealed the possibility of being selected in the middle rounds. Earning All-Big Ten honors the last three seasons as well as earning his fourth letter at Wisconsin, Biegel has an impressive resume for NFL Scouts to scour over.

STRENGTH: Very good athlete with solid production. Biegel is as intense as they come and plays with passion. Effective blitzer who powers through the smallest of creases to arrive in the backfield. He diagnoses the shows good instincts. Biegel has good hip transition and is able to bend and get leverage. He secures the ball carrier showing good tackling technique. His country farm strength is evident at the line of scrimmage. Comes from a family with football background, his uncle played fullback at BYU, grandfather played linebacker at UW-Eau Claire prior to being enshrined in the National High School Athletic Coaches Association and his brother played for the Badgers.

WEAKNESSES: Best when the play is in front of him. Biegel has marginal cover skills and will need to show he can back pedal and cover tight ends and receivers in the slot. Over pursues, he lacks the discipline in back-side pursuit overrunning the ball. Tends to get shutdown by quicker more athletic lineman. Aggressive nature can lead him to miss plays. More variety of moves to get access to the quarterback.

IN OUR VIEW: Biegel flies around the ball and strong pound for pound giving great effort. One will never question his intensity or passion to play the game. He is a bit of a one trick pony that excels at being a disruptive backfield force but lacks coverage skills. He should be early contributed on special teams and gradually earn snaps his rookie season as a outside linebacker.

COMPARES TO: Lorenzo Mauldin, New York: Biegel will draw interest from 3-4 teams looking for an edge rusher. Mauldin has 6.5 sacks and 33 tackles in his first two season with the Jets and Biegel has the capability to have that type of impact heading into his NFL career.

[pbmax]

First film is 2015


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nvCgLyyOimA

[pbmax]

In pSparq, Bielgel is listed as an average athletic ILB.

[wist43]

Ted's worst pick of this draft... special teams guy with a low ceiling.

What is it with Ted drafting sluggish, unathletic white LB's in the 4th round??

Hate this pick.

[red]

The first question is did the Packers scouts tell Ted he was a Badger?

Second is: does he play inside or outside? Lots of draftnik sites had him pegged for ILB.

OVERVIEW @NFL.com (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/profiles/vince-biegel?id=2557906)
This two-time all-conference pick came from a football family. His father, Rocky, played linebacker at BYU while his uncle T.D. was a fullback for the Cougars. Vince's grandfather, Ken, played Division III ball and was a Wisconsin and national high school hall of fame coach. Coming from that lineage, it was no surprise Vince was the Wisconsin Gatorade Player of the Year as a senior (172 tackles, 21 sacks) and earned a scholarship to play for the Badgers. A foot injury ended his freshman season after two games, but he came on late the following year to start twice (25 tackles, three for loss, two sacks). Biegel led the Badgers with 16.5 tackles for loss (7.5 sacks) as a starter in 2014, and earned third-team All-Big Ten notice with 66 stops, 14 for loss, and eight sacks as a junior. Despite being limited for multiple games, missing two, with a broken foot, Biegel was a second-team All-Big Ten performer in 2016 (six TFL, four sacks).

STRENGTHS
Voted team captain. Known for intensity and all-out love for the sport. Instinctive. Diagnoses zone blocks quickly and darts through gaps into backfield to muddy backside cutback lanes. Works to keep outside shoulder uncovered for contain responsibilities against the run. Emotional leader for the Badgers. Wrap-up tackler looking to thud. Flashes desired pursuit speed to perimeter. First-strike specialist at point of attack. Lands hands first and immediate arm extension provides leverage against much bigger blockers. Adequate hip flexibility and change of direction to mirror play-action rollouts. Good run-pass recognition. Was asked to peel off and cover in space. Squeezes receivers from zone. Posted productive rush totals over sophomore and junior seasons. Father, uncle, grandfather and younger brother all played college ball.

WEAKNESSES
Undersized, and it often shows up on tape. Needs to increase play strength and add more bulk to his frame. Gets jostled around by tackles if he loses with his hands. Poor contact balance to fight through redirect blocks and can get shoved to turf. Average three-step burst upfield. Duck-foot rusher missing twitch and athleticism to bend the edge. Attempts to activate spin counter, but he's missing footwork to bring it home. "Take-on" anchor and power versus lead blockers is below average. Quick to stack, slow to shuck.

DRAFT PROJECTION Rounds 5-6

SOURCES TELL US "Has to get stronger. He's got great makeup and is a great teammate and leader. Medicals with his foot are worrisome. Could be a flag for him." -- Midwest regional scout for NFC team

NFL COMPARISON Frank Zombo

BOTTOM LINE Effort-based worker bee with edge-setting hands and attitude, but a lack of power that could lead to inconsistency in play. Biegel's football character is off-the-charts and he can be counted on to put the effort into improving in areas that need work. He lacks individual rush talent but could be a good fit for teams utilizing exotic rush packages. Average NFL ceiling but has the demeanor and traits of a potential special teams demon.

-Lance Zierlein

sounds like a guy thats gonna be suspended in the next year or two

[pbmax]

Ian Kenyon‏ @IanKenyonNFL 8h8 hours ago
*whispers* Biegel was the one Big Ten teams were game planning for when TJ Watt got all those sacks.

[texaspackerbacker]

In pSparq, Bielgel is listed as an average athletic ILB.

Did you mean ILB or was that a typo?

[pbmax]

Did you mean ILB or was that a typo?

They definitely compared him to other ILBs, he was not listed on the EDGE.

[Deputy Nutz]

Ted's worst pick of this draft... special teams guy with a low ceiling.

What is it with Ted drafting sluggish, unathletic white LB's in the 4th round??

Hate this pick.

He was a four star recruit coming out of high school. Nonathletic guys are not 4 star recruits. What about his play or his work out numbers would signify he is not athletic?
My issue with Biegel is he left a lot of plays on the field by missing tackles and sacks. If I went back and watched film I bet Biegel would have had at least 5 more sacks this season. I like him with the fourth round pick, and I like him better than Frackrell.

[King Friday]

I like him with the fourth round pick, and I like him better than Frackrell.

This I agree with completely. He at least is an upgrade over some of the current dregs on the roster.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I like the pick. Going to be real interesting to see how he does vs how Watt does.

[texaspackerbacker]

I like Biegel in the 4th better than Watt in the 1st. I'd say they are about equally likely to succeed ...... or fail. It's a lot less of a big deal if Biegel fails, though, than Watt.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I like Biegel in the 4th better than Watt in the 1st. I'd say they are about equally likely to succeed ...... or fail. It's a lot less of a big deal if Biegel fails, though, than Watt.

I think Watt would be in college next year if he had a different last name.

I've heard some people who study the games and go to some practices (Tarek Saleh, Mike Lucas, others) say that Biegel was by far the best player on the Badger D. And they were saying that for two years. I didn't really see it with my own eyes, he was just a solid player to me.

[Pugger]

Yes, I do wonder at times did TJ get all the attention because of his big brother? If you just look at the combine numbers Vince and TJ had very similar numbers.

[beveaux1]

I'll repeat what I said before. If TJ Watt had the last name of Biegel, he and Vince would have been drafted within a round of each other. The difference being the ages of the two players.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Watt is bigger than Biegel in every way (longer arms, bigger hands.) He has more potential to fill out and be defensive line stud. But he only really played 1 year of college football, which is a loss to all.

[Fritz]

"NFL COMPARISON Frank Zombo"

That let the air right out of my sails on this guy.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I think Watt would be in college next year if he had a different last name.

I've heard some people who study the games and go to some practices (Tarek Saleh, Mike Lucas, others) say that Biegel was by far the best player on the Badger D. And they were saying that for two years. I didn't really see it with my own eyes, he was just a solid player to me.

Vince has always recieved a lot of praise from those that cover the Badgers that he is the biggest key for the defense. That was high praise given that the Badger LBs were the cornerstone of that unit and amongst the best in college.

[Joemailman]

"NFL COMPARISON Frank Zombo"

That let the air right out of my sails on this guy.

I liked Zombo, until he got hit by the injury bug. Biegel is probably better than Zombo, but don't be expecting another Clay Matthews with a 4th round pick.

[pbmax]

"NFL COMPARISON Frank Zombo"

That let the air right out of my sails on this guy.

Lance Zierlein is everyone on football blogs. I am not sure how good of a scout he is, but I do know this:

Zombo was a UDFA, At a minimum, Biegel makes a better prospect.

[Patler]

I don't think he is comparing Biegel the prospect to Zombo the prospect, he is comparing Biegel the prospect to Zombo the 8th year veteran who started 11 games last year. I don't think it matters that Zombo was undrafted.

[Fritz]

Then the comparison makes me even sadder.

[Brandon494]

Pretty much saying he doesn't have much upside but he's assignment sure.

[Brandon494]

I didn't like the pick but I understand it, after losing Peppers we need depth at OLB because the chances of Clay and Peppers not missing a game are slim to none.

[pbmax]

Perry, not Peppers

[Brandon494]

Smh don't know why I keep doing that haha

[wist43]

It can never be justified to over draft a guy just to fill a need. I want to fill needs, but would argue we either trade up to get the requisite value, or stay put and take a player at another position who is worthy of that pick.

Biegel may play a position of need, but I don't think he fills it - just as I don't think Fackrell fills it. That's 2 mid-round spitballs that Ted has thrown at a critical position, combined with the mid-round spitballs that are Ryan and Martinez. Everyone of those guys is athletically limited, and hence have low ceilings.

In short, TT is not filling holes in the starting lineup, he's playing his same old quantity game in hopes of hitting on one of them.

[wist43]

I cant post the video of Beigel in the LSU game as I'm on my phone, but go on YouTube and watch the tape... he doesn't make a single play of his own inertia. The couple of plays he does make are b/c he's unblocked.

He gets handled easily by the TE, he can't get off blocks, he lacks chase speed, on and on... watch the tape.

[Pugger]

"NFL COMPARISON Frank Zombo"

That let the air right out of my sails on this guy.

I think Vince is a better athlete than Frank.

[Pugger]

It can never be justified to over draft a guy just to fill a need. I want to fill needs, but would argue we either trade up to get the requisite value, or stay put and take a player at another position who is worthy of that pick.

Biegel may play a position of need, but I don't think he fills it - just as I don't think Fackrell fills it. That's 2 mid-round spitballs that Ted has thrown at a critical position, combined with the mid-round spitballs that are Ryan and Martinez. Everyone of those guys is athletically limited, and hence have low ceilings.

In short, TT is not filling holes in the starting lineup, he's playing his same old quantity game in hopes of hitting on one of them.

What EDGE player at that spot in the draft would have been a better choice?

[pbmax]

There is ample evidence that teams cannot identify successful NFL players at better than a 50% clip. None of them do that well over time.

So quantity over "quality" is a winning strategy. That isn't to say you want all 7th round picks, but you do want more rather than less overall.

[Pugger]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuOcKH_QHHM

[Harlan Huckleby]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0jR6ix-Nzqw

[wist43]

There is ample evidence that teams cannot identify successful NFL players at better than a 50% clip. None of them do that well over time.

So quantity over "quality" is a winning strategy. That isn't to say you want all 7th round picks, but you do want more rather than less overall.

You're missing the point...

The point is - if you don't trade up from a given spot, you can't force a pick for a player based on position. I would rather have seen him take a player with more upside at another position, than to spend a valuable mid-round pick on a guy with a low ceiling simply b/c he plays a position of need.

Like I said, watch his game tape of the LSU game.

[Deputy Nutz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Hbq-ri0hDM

The complaints that I have with Biegel are what is apparent in this film. He would have been a first rounder if he finished plays. He takes good angles on the backside and holds contain when he is on playside. He was the ground a bit much throughout the game. He was double teamed a handful of times, it was obvious that LSU was chipping him with backs and tight ends.

My feeling is that he holds value with the fourth pick. I used to be like a lot of you and thought I knew the draft and value of the players because I read websites and read draft magazines and complained at all the moves that didn't happen that I thought should have happened. These GM's hit record on the draft isn't real good and this is what they do for a living, Most likely this pick doesn't work out and other 4th rounders won't either. Some will and some of you will point to those successful fourth round picks and cry foul because you thought the Packers should have drafted that particular player. What ever helps you get through your lives.

[pbmax]

Well look at it this way. He isn't going to get chipped or double teamed this year.

We'll see.

[King Friday]

I cant post the video of Beigel in the LSU game as I'm on my phone, but go on YouTube and watch the tape... he doesn't make a single play of his own inertia. The couple of plays he does make are b/c he's unblocked.

He gets handled easily by the TE, he can't get off blocks, he lacks chase speed, on and on... watch the tape.

You must be blind, wist. He blew up a critical 3rd and 1 play all by himself, and LSU had a blocker assigned to him. Biegel was fast enough to beat the blocker to the spot.

I don't think this kid in any way is our knight in shining armor at LB, but he's not a bad value in round 4. I do agree that Thompson needs to alter his approach to this position...it hasn't gotten him anywhere in 15 years.

[SMBASS]

I stole this find from another site and thought it was pretty interesting:

Since 2005, in the first four rounds of the draft, there have only been nine college pass-rushers who have:

posted at least a 4.67-second 40-yard dash time
were at least 245 pounds or heavier
posted at least a 6.92-second three-cone time
Here are those players:

Von Miller, second pick in 2011 draft
Vic Beasley, eighth pick in 2015 draft
Anthony Barr, ninth pick in 2014 draft
DeMarcus Ware, 11th pick in 2005 draft
Bruce Irvin, 15th pick in 2012 draft
Connor Barwin, 46th pick in 2009 draft
Cliff Avril, 92nd pick in 2008 draft
Zak DeOssie, 116th pick in 2007 draft

Vince Biegel is the 9th

Author of the article (Justin Mosquera) has written for years on edge rushing prospects.

I still wish we would have signed Conner Barwin in free agency this year. Oh well...

[wist43]

You must be blind, wist. He blew up a critical 3rd and 1 play all by himself, and LSU had a blocker assigned to him. Biegel was fast enough to beat the blocker to the spot.

I don't think this kid in any way is our knight in shining armor at LB, but he's not a bad value in round 4. I do agree that Thompson needs to alter his approach to this position...it hasn't gotten him anywhere in 15 years.

Which play are you talking about?? Where he dove in and got the guy by the ankle?? I remember that one; and, I remember he actually had a sack in that game when he came in unblocked, overran the QB, the QB stepped up in the pocket but didn't get rid of the ball and Beigel was able to get him from behind.

Where on tape are talking about??

Overall, that video is not a pretty sight for Beigel. He simply is not an explosive athlete, not 'sudden, quick twitch... there's nothing about him that says he has a ceiling above anything more than a decent backup and special teams player.

I would be looking to grab those types of guys out of the ranks of undrafted FA's, and focus my draft picks on trying to procure guys that can be starters or have upside to be starters.

[Fritz]

The way he played, he looked like a Green Bay Packer edge rusher to me - a dollar short and a day late.

[Harlan Huckleby]

The way he played, he looked like a Green Bay Packer edge rusher to me - a dollar short and a day late.

Don't under estimate the value of team chemistry.

[3irty1]

I'm excited to see what Biegel can do in the NFL. This talk of his supposed low-ceiling makes no sense. This man's an NFL athlete:

6'03"
246 lbs
forty-yard dash: 4.67
three-cone: 6.92
20-yard SS: 4.30 (combine) 4.15 (proday)
Bench Press: 21 reps
Vert jump: 33.5 inches
Broad jump: 9' 10"

He moves like Haha Clinton-Dix but carries 30 extra pounds. This is a size-speed prospect. What Watt has over him (other than name) is his jumps and age. TJ's vert and broad jump are spectacular for his size, he's got the explosive ability to be as good as he wants rushing the passer. Biegel is unlikely to become the double digit sack monster that TJ could be but he's not some try-hard tweener either. He's got the attitude and the athletic traits of a difference maker from sideline to sideline and in coverage.

[gbgary]

I stole this find from another site and thought it was pretty interesting:

Since 2005, in the first four rounds of the draft, there have only been nine college pass-rushers who have:

posted at least a 4.67-second 40-yard dash time
were at least 245 pounds or heavier
posted at least a 6.92-second three-cone time
Here are those players:

Von Miller, second pick in 2011 draft
Vic Beasley, eighth pick in 2015 draft
Anthony Barr, ninth pick in 2014 draft
DeMarcus Ware, 11th pick in 2005 draft
Bruce Irvin, 15th pick in 2012 draft
Connor Barwin, 46th pick in 2009 draft
Cliff Avril, 92nd pick in 2008 draft
Zak DeOssie, 116th pick in 2007 draft

Vince Biegel is the 9th

Author of the article (Justin Mosquera) has written for years on edge rushing prospects.

I still wish we would have signed Conner Barwin in free agency this year. Oh well...

that's impressive. i seldom watch college football but he seems pretty good to me.

[bobblehead]

I'll repeat what I said before. If TJ Watt had the last name of Biegel, he and Vince would have been drafted within a round of each other. The difference being the ages of the two players.

I don't know. I knew Rocky Beigel....he is a big name in wisconsin sports around my era :)

[pbmax]

Boo. Though he seems to be evaluating him solely at ILB.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2706570-2017-nfl-draft-grades-full-day-3-report-card

No. 108 Green Bay Packers: Vince Biegel, Linebacker, Wisconsin

Strengths: Motor, instincts, experience.

Weaknesses: Foot injuries, power game.

Biegel is your central-casting, old-school Big Ten linebacker. He has the tools to be a run-thumping NFL inside linebacker, but a long history of foot injuries cloud his potential, and he needs to become better at converting his size and his effort into block-shedding and gap-plugging. Also, old-school thumpers just aren't as useful as they used to be. The Packers are really leaning into the defense in this year's draft. Grade: C.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Biegel isn't really old school thumper, is he? Also, didn't he play in a school record 54 games?

[pbmax]

Biegel isn't really old school thumper, is he? Also, didn't he play in a school record 54 games?

Sorta. Be isn't terribly strong but he does fine with contact. He could play inside. Not precisely old school, but the review is trying to forecast him as an ILB.

The foot injury is listed because I believe it came up twice and foot injuries do tend to repeat.

He missed two games his senior year after getting screw inserted into his foot.

[texaspackerbacker]

I really don't he him as an ILB. If he's good, he might make it possible to use Matthews inside more. I'm guardedly optimistic about Biegel based on his junior year. Arguably (as I read somewhere) teams game planned for him, which had something to do with why T.J. Watt looked so good.

[Bretsky]

Dude is a tough nut; he came back from his 4 week injury in two weeks.

I may have preferred the RB but Vince was the next best guy on he board there.

He's a smash mouth football player. Bottom line. And he can rush the passer. He's a guy you try at ILB but he's going to pressure and get to the QB. SOLID PICK TT

Tampa Bay called him at 7:00 AM in the morning and let him know he was theirs if he got to them

[Deputy Nutz]

He is not an inside linebacker at this point. He does one thing really well and that is rushing up the field

[bobblehead]

He is not an inside linebacker at this point. He does one thing really well and that is rushing up the field

If you're only going to do one thing well, nothing beats making a QB a bit nervous.

[Sparkey]

[QUOTE=wist43;927504]I cant post the video of Beigel in the LSU game as I'm on my phone, but go on YouTube and watch the tape... he doesn't make a single play of his own inertia. The couple of plays he does make are b/c he's unblocked.

He gets handled easily by the TE, he can't get off blocks, he lacks chase speed, on and on... watch the tape.[/QUOTE

He did about as much as Watt did in that game. They both played disciplined rushes and forced lsu to throw the ball. Biegel also had one of only two sacks.

I thought he played very well.

And if that is the tape to use to claim Biegel was over drafted, then in that same breath you can also say Watt was a major reach in rmd 1.

[texaspackerbacker]

[QUOTE=wist43;927504]I cant post the video of Beigel in the LSU game as I'm on my phone, but go on YouTube and watch the tape... he doesn't make a single play of his own inertia. The couple of plays he does make are b/c he's unblocked.

He gets handled easily by the TE, he can't get off blocks, he lacks chase speed, on and on... watch the tape.[/QUOTE

He did about as much as Watt did in that game. They both played disciplined rushes and forced lsu to throw the ball. Biegel also had one of only two sacks.

I thought he played very well.

And if that is the tape to use to claim Biegel was over drafted, then in that same breath you can also say Watt was a major reach in rmd 1.

The Badgers won, and did so mainly with defense. Either Biegel and Watt - the two top Badger defenders - were doing something right or else they were so damn good that L.S.U. gameplanned so much against them that the rest of the D came through big.

All of that being said, though, Badger homer that I proudly am, I am just slightly worried that Biegel - being one cog in the machine of a great D - might just turn out to be kinda mediocre with the Packers. I hope I'm wrong, but I guess we'll see.

[gbgary]

had foot surgery.

[Freak Out]

Bretsky is to blame.

[Joemailman]

had foot surgery.

He's Packer People.

[pbmax]

I have been wanting to post this for a week.


FUCK!


579!

[LEWCWA]

I don't know. I knew Rocky Beigel....he is a big name in wisconsin sports around my era :)

Where you from---I went to school with Rocky and TD.

[bobblehead]

Which play are you talking about?? Where he dove in and got the guy by the ankle?? I remember that one; and, I remember he actually had a sack in that game when he came in unblocked, overran the QB, the QB stepped up in the pocket but didn't get rid of the ball and Beigel was able to get him from behind.

Where on tape are talking about??

Overall, that video is not a pretty sight for Beigel. He simply is not an explosive athlete, not 'sudden, quick twitch... there's nothing about him that says he has a ceiling above anything more than a decent backup and special teams player.

I would be looking to grab those types of guys out of the ranks of undrafted FA's, and focus my draft picks on trying to procure guys that can be starters or have upside to be starters.

so, for posterity sake...who would you have taken with first pick in 4th.

[bobblehead]

Where you from---I went to school with Rocky and TD.

Went to college in eau claire. It was all rocky this and rocky that.

[StPaulPackFan]

Went to college in eau claire. It was all rocky this and rocky that.

I went to DC Everest. Graduated in 1988. We played Rapids at home my senior year. Rocky was the biggest non-lineman we played against all year. Actually, he was bigger than most linemen. He was a damn impressive football player. His brother TD was pretty darn good too.

[LEWCWA]

I went to DC Everest. Graduated in 1988. We played Rapids at home my senior year. Rocky was the biggest non-lineman we played against all year. Actually, he was bigger than most linemen. He was a damn impressive football player. His brother TD was pretty darn good too.

Yeah they were both pretty good, good guys too......Rocky probably would have went to the nfl, but I think his shoulders were destroyed at the end at byu.....td was shorter, but legs like a rb, I just don't think he was fast enough.

[LEWCWA]

Went to college in eau claire. It was all rocky this and rocky that.

hmmmm all the way up in Eau Claire.....I don't even remember him being that big a deal at home. Probably because he was a pretty good guy and not an ass...

[Bretsky]

so, for posterity sake...who would you have taken with first pick in 4th.

I think I would have taken Samaje Perine

But my second pick there would have Biegel

Followed by Dede Westbrook

I'm happy with Biegel; good pick by Ted

[Rutnstrut]

It's starting to look like another fragile TT pick. Hopefully he's just getting it all done before the season gets here.

[wist43]

so, for posterity sake...who would you have taken with first pick in 4th.

For posterity, and without putting any elbow grease into it...

Samaje Perine, RB
Carl Lawson, LB
Dorian Johnson, G
Josh Reynolds, WR

I just don't see Beigel making plays... and can't fathom why anyone would think of him as an ILB.

[Bretsky]

For posterity, and without putting any elbow grease into it...

Samaje Perine, RB
Carl Lawson, LB
Dorian Johnson, G
Josh Reynolds, WR

I just don't see Beigel making plays... and can't fathom why anyone would think of him as an ILB.


Didn't you hate Borland too ? Trying to remember. My gut says the same guys who noted Borland can play at a NFL level or ranting the same jibberish about Biegel

[wist43]

Didn't you hate Borland too ? Trying to remember. My gut says the same guys who noted Borland can play at a NFL level or ranting the same jibberish about Biegel

No I didn't like Borland... he only played one year and had crazy talent all around him, so you can't extrapolate that out. Hell, if you threw Biegel out there with that much talent, I'm sure he'd look halfway competent too.


Don't think Biegel' s ceiling is very high, but Ted tends to like those kinds of guys.

[Rutnstrut]

No I didn't like Borland... he only played one year and had crazy talent all around him, so you can't extrapolate that out. Hell, if you threw Biegel out there with that much talent, I'm sure he'd look halfway competent too.


Don't think Biegel' s ceiling is very high, but Ted tends to like those kinds of guys.

Don't forget Ted also tends to like the soft, frail types.

[smuggler]

So is Beigel another Carl Bradford? I see this as the opposite end of the spectrum. No he isn't tremendously athletic and he might have a lowish ceiling but he might also have a high floor. What does it matter if he gets 8 sacks though?

[Smidgeon]

So is Beigel another Carl Bradford? I see this as the opposite end of the spectrum. No he isn't tremendously athletic and he might have a lowish ceiling but he might also have a high floor. What does it matter if he gets 8 sacks though?

Is Beigel another Ricky Elmore? Lesser heralded teammate of an OLB who went higher with many arguing they had just as much success considering the circumstances...

[bobblehead]

Yeah they were both pretty good, good guys too......Rocky probably would have went to the nfl, but I think his shoulders were destroyed at the end at byu.....td was shorter, but legs like a rb, I just don't think he was fast enough.

I actually thought rocky played in the nfl for a cup of coffee. Googled it and I guess not. Probably because so many people talked about him like he was a god I got confused.

[bobblehead]

For posterity, and without putting any elbow grease into it...

Samaje Perine, RB
Carl Lawson, LB
Dorian Johnson, G
Josh Reynolds, WR

I just don't see Beigel making plays... and can't fathom why anyone would think of him as an ILB.

Thats good, but TT only had one pick so thats all you get. Perine then since you listed him first?

[Bretsky]

No I didn't like Borland... he only played one year and had crazy talent all around him, so you can't extrapolate that out. Hell, if you threw Biegel out there with that much talent, I'm sure he'd look halfway competent too.

.



It's ok to admit you were wrong; I hope you are again

Assuming you watched and broke down Borland's play in his first year....you've made my point for me

[bobblehead]

Don't forget Ted also tends to like the soft, frail types.

And for the record. Your pick at 4.1 was?

[Bretsky]

Thats good, but TT only had one pick so thats all you get. Perine then since you listed him first?


Perine seemed to be the guy everybody wanted there; I hope TT was right and Beigel kills it

[bobblehead]

I get that, but I bet one of our rookie RB's outperforms Perine. I just don't like that style of a back.

[gbgary]

I get that, but I bet one of our rookie RB's outperforms Perine. I just don't like that style of a back.

no way. he'll be their starting rb i bet. one of our rookies (williams) won't get that many carries.

[texaspackerbacker]

I get that, but I bet one of our rookie RB's outperforms Perine. I just don't like that style of a back.

I agree on both counts. Perine may or may not be a bust. I'm not gonna label him that way, but I'd be very surprised if he is star quality.

[wist43]

It's ok to admit you were wrong; I hope you are again

Assuming you watched and broke down Borland's play in his first year....you've made my point for me

Borland was a limited player... for what they asked him to do, he did it well; but again, he was in the middle of the most talented defense in the NFL at the time, and I can assure you no one was game planning to account for him.

He was a 2nd round pick I think, and there's no way I would take him there then, or now.

I think we have differing views of what to expect from draft picks... I'm looking to hit home runs, you (and Ted) seem fine with blooping singles.

[wist43]

The thing with Biegel is that it seems like he should make a play, or at least get in on the play, but he doesn't get off the block when it looks like he should be able to; or, he doesn't close the gap, or he doesn't get to the boundary, etc...

It's kind of frustrating to watch him b/c he looks like he should make a given play, but more often than not, doesn't.

[Bretsky]

You also hated JJ Watt, right ?

[Fritz]

Well, Bretsky, this is one of the few times I'm with Wist.Biegel looks to me like a try-hard guy who's always just a fraction late to make a play.

He's already hit his ceiling, I think. He'll knock around as a backup for a few years, then go off into coaching some small-town Wisconsin Division III college team.

[texaspackerbacker]

He looked a lot better than that before his injuries. Hopefully he will get healthy and get back to when he was better than T.J. Watt.

[Bretsky]

He looked a lot better than that before his injuries. Hopefully he will get healthy and get back to when he was better than T.J. Watt.

Most thought Biegel was a better LB than Watt with less upside before the injury. He was a different player after.


I'm a Cardinal and White Homer, but I think Biegel will be a solid player for GB

But for what it's worth, I'd still have grabbed TJ Watt

[wist43]

You also hated JJ Watt, right ?

JJ or TJ??

Don't remember having much of an opinion on JJ as we had no realistic chance of drafting him...

As for TJ, no I didn't want him either.