Ahman Ah-rested

[theeaterofshades]

http://www.wsaw.com/fox/content/news/Former-Packers-running-back-Ahman-Green-arrested-430873193.html
GREEN BAY, Wis. (WSAW) -- Police are recommending former Packers running back, Ahman Green be charged with child abuse after the 40-year-old was arrested early Monday morning.

WBAY-TV reports Green could make a court appearance Monday afternoon.

Online court records show no criminal charges have yet been filed.

Green played 12 seasons in the NFL, including eight for the Packers. He retired in 2009 as the Packers’ career rushing leader with 8,322 yards.

[pbmax]

He has been in trouble once before, do I remember that correctly?

[MadScientist]

He has been in trouble once before, do I remember that correctly?

He was arrested for domestic violence back in 2005:
http://www.seattletimes.com/sports/former-seahawk-ahman-green-arrested-on-suspicion-of-domestic-violence/

[Joemailman]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2017/06/26/former-packers-running-back-ahman-green-arrested/428142001/

Some more details coming out:


Green was arrested at his home about 11:30 p.m. Sunday after he pushed his daughter and struck her in the head, a criminal complaint says. The daughter had run to a neighbor's house for help after the altercation, the complaint says. The daughter told the investigating deputy that the incident had been "going on all day and it's about doing dishes," the complaint says.

The daughter told police Green pays her an allowance when she comes and stays for extended visitation periods, and that he expects her to do chores to earn that allowance, but that she didn't want to do it, the complaint says.

Green's wife, who is not the girl's mother, told a deputy the girl "is always trying to pull stuff like this" and that she had been talking earlier how she was going to call police to get Green in trouble, the complaint says.

Green admitted to an officer he may have thrown the girl to the ground, tearing her shirt, and that he slapped her head and may have hit her glasses, causing an injury to her eye, the complaint says.

[mraynrand]

This is the Dark Knight, not the Adam West Batman.

Still, just do the damn dishes.

[Vincenzo]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/news/2017/06/26/former-packers-running-back-ahman-green-arrested/428142001/

Some more details coming out:
If that's the entire story it's a pity it had to hit the media. Domestic situations such as this suck.
Or maybe you just can't lay a hand on anyone these days.

[hoosier]

This is the Dark Knight, not the Adam West Batman.

Still, just do the damn dishes.

Or stop paying the damn allowance.

[mraynrand]

Or stop paying the damn allowance.

Touché!

[Harlan Huckleby]

This is shocking. Ahman Green is only 40? I just picture him in a helmet with a single bar facemask.

[pbmax]

If you admit hitting the girl and injuring her eye with either the hit or the glasses, its time to go away for awhile.

[mraynrand]

If you admit hitting the girl and injuring her eye with either the hit or the glasses, its time to go away for awhile.

Well, the exact nature of it matters a lot. Maybe I'm becoming a dinosaur on this stuff, but if it's just a slap in response to a confrontational kid, then I think you let it go. If he punched or otherwise hit her with injuring force, then it should be treated as an assault. Ahman (and all men) have a special responsibility to control themselves and not hurt women. (And for Stan/Loretta, the rare strong women have the same responsibility towards their diminutive men).

[Rutnstrut]

If you admit hitting the girl and injuring her eye with either the hit or the glasses, its time to go away for awhile.

Yeah, god forbid anyone discipline their bratty, entitled, lazy children. If they did, there would be no future for the Democratic party.

[pbmax]

Well, the exact nature of it matters a lot. Maybe I'm becoming a dinosaur on this stuff, but if it's just a slap in response to a confrontational kid, then I think you let it go. If he punched or otherwise hit her with injuring force, then it should be treated as an assault. Ahman (and all men) have a special responsibility to control themselves and not hurt women. (And for Stan/Loretta, the rare strong women have the same responsibility towards their diminutive men).

A slap that is just a slap is one thing. A slap (and that is his description) that injures is a couple of steps beyond simply discipline. Given human nature, my guess is that slap is the kindest interpretation. He also has a history here.

[pbmax]

Yeah, god forbid anyone discipline their bratty, entitled, lazy children. If they did, there would be no future for the Democratic party.

So in black and white world its either injure or ignore for child discipline?

Doesn't sound like a lot of fun.

[Harlan Huckleby]

no blood, no foul

[MadScientist]

no blood, no foul
I'd say an eye injury is equivalent to blood. This is apparently third domestic incident involving Green. The dude has problems and needs a time out, followed by anger management therapy.

[mraynrand]

no blood, no foul

For the most part I agree; that includes bruising. A bruise means it isn't just a slap.

I don't know what happened, I'm just trying to articulate a difference between a hit that injures and a slap. I've never hit a woman, but my wife has slapped our kids on rare occasion. I didn't think she needed to be jailed.

[hoosier]

no blood, no foul

Neither fish nor fowl.

The report said the police report said there was bruising around the eye. You don't get that from a slap. The distinction between what is legally permissible (discipline) and what is assault usually rests on whether or not the force leaves a lasting mark (such as bruising), whether or not the action could be reasonably construed as intended to give a lesson (so hitting a child in anger would count as abuse), and whether or not the person inflicting the pain is in control. It sounds like Ahman fell on the wrong side of the law on at least two and probably all three of those criteria. The child is a teenager. I wonder how long this pattern has been going on.....

[Rutnstrut]

Neither fish nor fowl.

The report said the police report said there was bruising around the eye. You don't get that from a slap. The distinction between what is legally permissible (discipline) and what is assault usually rests on whether or not the force leaves a lasting mark (such as bruising), whether or not the action could be reasonably construed as intended to give a lesson (so hitting a child in anger would count as abuse), and whether or not the person inflicting the pain is in control. It sounds like Ahman fell on the wrong side of the law on at least two and probably all three of those criteria. The child is a teenager. I wonder how long this pattern has been going on.....

I have seen people bruise from less than a slap. You can't generalize what causes a bruise without knowing the individual.

[Joemailman]

I'd say an eye injury is equivalent to blood. This is apparently third domestic incident involving Green. The dude has problems and needs a time out, followed by anger management therapy.

He had to undergo anger management counseling following a domestic incident in 2005. Might need a refresher course.

[Zool]

Yeah, god forbid anyone discipline their bratty, entitled, lazy children. If they did, there would be no future for the Democratic party.

If you teach a child to do what you say with the thread of violence, that child learns that the threat of violence gets you what you want. It's actually pretty simple and completely fucking stupid. If you hit your kid, you just lost.

[mraynrand]

If you teach a child to do what you say with the thread of violence, that child learns that the threat of violence gets you what you want. It's actually pretty simple and completely fucking stupid. If you hit your kid, you just lost.

good lord

[Joemailman]

If you teach a child to do what you say with the thread of violence, that child learns that the threat of violence gets you what you want. It's actually pretty simple and completely fucking stupid. If you hit your kid, you just lost.

Not all hitting is violence. My dad used to sometimes hit us for misbehaving. We never sensed danger though because we knew he wasn't doing it out of rage. He was in control. he was sending a message that we needed to straighten up. Ahman Green is a different story. He has, at least sporadically, problems controlling his anger.

[hoosier]

Not all hitting is violence. My dad used to sometimes hit us for misbehaving. We never sensed danger though because we knew he wasn't doing it out of rage. He was in control. he was sending a message that we needed to straighten up. Ahman Green is a different story. He has, at least sporadically, problems controlling his anger.

Sorry but it is still violence. Maybe of a different sort, but it is still violence. I don't doubt that there were and may still be family environments in which kids get spanked and grow up to be highly functional adults. But parenting culture is changing, and it's no longer generally accepted that hitting a child will produce desirable changes. Recent studies have shown a positive correlation between corporal punishment in the home and increased negative behavior as well as lowering of self-esteem. There are plenty of non-violent ways of teaching kids right from wrong and instilling responsibility.

[MadtownPacker]

Now that's a Green Bay Smacker!!!

Man where Nutz or skinbasket? Bunch of pussies here like PBMax and zool. So what if he had to put her little ass down. You mofos know how teenagers can be. He didn't break anything and bruising ain't shit.

[mraynrand]

Recent studies have shown a positive correlation between corporal punishment in the home and increased negative behavior as well as lowering of self-esteem.

50% of social science studies is shit. Not to mention that a lot of even the reasonably conducted stuff is politically outcome-driven (lysenkoism). And the last thing our society needs is more self esteem.

I would like to see which studies you think are worthy of consideration. I'd consider them.

[hoosier]

Here is an example of a metastudy of spanking. Its conclusions are not entirely black-and-white and it finds that a large number of the studies done were flawed--not because they were politically motivated, as you assume, but probably because they were simply poorly conceived--but it still finds persuasive evidence of correlation between spanking and negative behavior.

Don't be too hasty in dismissing self esteem or in assuming that you know what someone else understands when they speak of it.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-science-says-and-doesn-t-about-spanking/

[Harlan Huckleby]

Probably there are plenty of homes where spanking is done, and the kids turn out fine. But maybe that is because the parents are caring and attentive, and that overrides the pointless destruction of hitting the kids. We'll never know from studies.

Anecdotally, I was spanked as a kid and turned out splendidly. But is that because of my core strengths, my steely resolve to do good in the world? We can never know.

[hoosier]

Anecdotally, I was spanked as a kid....

That explains a lot.

[mraynrand]

Anecdotally, I was spanked as a kid

I was spanked for real, not anecdotally.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Haters gotta hate.
I'm gonna shake it off, shake it off.

[mraynrand]

Here is an example of a metastudy of spanking. Its conclusions are not entirely black-and-white and it finds that a large number of the studies done were flawed--not because they were politically motivated, as you assume, but probably because they were simply poorly conceived--but it still finds persuasive evidence of correlation between spanking and negative behavior.

Don't be too hasty in dismissing self esteem or in assuming that you know what someone else understands when they speak of it.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-science-says-and-doesn-t-about-spanking/

I'm usually pretty hasty; you're just going to have to live with it.

There's a depth to corporeal punishment that shouldn't be missed. Drive by comments like Zool's look foolish. There are spankings that little kids get (smacks on their behind) that serve as a negative reinforcement when they do something dangerous like walk into the street. These are highly effective. There's actual punishment, like 5 hard shots with a belt for doing something pretty bad (this is the form things took in our house growing up). There's no doubt it was a strong reminder about consequences for bad behavior; I can report that it prevented bad behavior on my part. There are all sorts of bad hitting - the uncontrolled outbursts are all bad, even if they don't do damage , because having a parent out of control is really what sends a strong negative message. (based on history, I suspect this is true in the Green case).

On another note, there was a time when my brother and I were getting a little older (10-12 maybe), my Mom tried to spank us and she was so ineffective that my brother and I just laughed at her. It was all fun and games until Dad got home. Sort of a double backfire.

[mraynrand]

Haters gotta hate.
I'm gonna shake it off, shake it off.

I prefer to:
shake it up
https://storage.googleapis.com/media.mwcradio.com/cache-v2/c3/31/c331f3f19e767bd879a95d0db3f7ad8c.jpg

[MadtownPacker]

Probably there are plenty of homes where spanking is done, and the kids turn out fine. But maybe that is because the parents are caring and attentive, and that overrides the pointless destruction of hitting the kids. We'll never know from studies.

Anecdotally, I was spanked as a kid and turned out splendidly. But is that because of my core strengths, my steely resolve to do good in the world? We can never know.Based on this new evidence you provided I am strongly reconsidering changing my opinion from spanking to straight up drown them at birth.

Be honest HH, you have always been the runt in your family.

[Zool]

I'm usually pretty hasty; you're just going to have to live with it.

There's a depth to corporeal punishment that shouldn't be missed. Drive by comments like Zool's look foolish. There are spankings that little kids get (smacks on their behind) that serve as a negative reinforcement when they do something dangerous like walk into the street. These are highly effective. There's actual punishment, like 5 hard shots with a belt for doing something pretty bad (this is the form things took in our house growing up). There's no doubt it was a strong reminder about consequences for bad behavior; I can report that it prevented bad behavior on my part. There are all sorts of bad hitting - the uncontrolled outbursts are all bad, even if they don't do damage , because having a parent out of control is really what sends a strong negative message. (based on history, I suspect this is true in the Green case).

On another note, there was a time when my brother and I were getting a little older (10-12 maybe), my Mom tried to spank us and she was so ineffective that my brother and I just laughed at her. It was all fun and games until Dad got home. Sort of a double backfire.

So my opinion is different than yours so it's foolish. Then Hoosier sites the same studies i've read to form my opinion and it's now feasible? You must be a blast in conversation.

I still stand by my original statement. If you need to hit, you've lost and you've taught your child that hitting gets your desired effect.

[mraynrand]

So my opinion is different than yours so it's foolish. Then Hoosier sites the same studies i've read and it's now feasible? You must be a blast in conversation.

I think you can do better than a lot of your shallow drive-by posts, that's all I'm saying.

[Zool]

I think you can do better than a lot of your shallow drive-by posts, that's all I'm saying.

My time to post is limited. I try to interject opinion when I can.

[mraynrand]

My time to post is limited. I try to interject opinion when I can.

you need to re-examine your priorities. :)

[3irty1]

There is a cultural component to this. About 100% of my wife's students experience the level of corporal punishment our great grandfathers probably experienced. When its Adrian Peterson or Ahman Green I have a hard time clutching my pearls. The truth is not beating your kids (which I think is excellent practice for the record) is like a generation old and not everybody watches enough Dateline to get the memo. Even Tanahasi Coates writes about how his dad was noble enough to beat him "so the cops wouldn't" or some such. We see a mother in Baltimore pull her kid out of a riot while hitting him in the face and she's somehow #motheroftheyear. Seems to me there are two sets of rules here and one set of laws.

[pbmax]

There is a cultural component to this. About 100% of my wife's students experience the level of corporal punishment our great grandfathers probably experienced. When its Adrian Peterson or Ahman Green I have a hard time clutching my pearls. The truth is not beating your kids (which I think is excellent practice for the record) is like a generation old and not everybody watches enough Dateline to get the memo. Even Tanahasi Coates writes about how his dad was noble enough to beat him "so the cops wouldn't" or some such. We see a mother in Baltimore pull her kid out of a riot while hitting him in the face and she's somehow #motheroftheyear. Seems to me there are two sets of rules here and one set of laws.

Beating your children to avoid other, possibly worse beatings, might seem to be necessary, but its not desirable.

Same goes for spanking. If you can get the behavior change without the violence (I disagree with Joe that hitting is not violence, its message is pain, fear and/or humiliation no matter the velocity or frequency) it would be best to avoid it.

[call_me_ishmael]

If you teach a child to do what you say with the thread of violence, that child learns that the threat of violence gets you what you want. It's actually pretty simple and completely fucking stupid. If you hit your kid, you just lost.

Yep, this. There are a million other ways to get your point across and assert authority rather than using size/strength/violence against a person.

[Rutnstrut]

Yep, this. There are a million other ways to get your point across and assert authority rather than using size/strength/violence against a person.

I suppose your approach would be give them a hug and tell them they can be any gender they want to be. Then help them find their safe place.

[call_me_ishmael]

No, my approach would be using other forms of discipline. There are plenty of them. Sorry, there is nothing cool, manly, or responsible about using size and strength to discipline a child. What lesson does that teach them? That's beating people and using their size/strength over them is right? And what happens when a young man tries to apply the same concepts they learned from their folks to a young woman?

Beyond that, what's with the ridiculous stereotype post? Your lack of intelligence is showing.

[Vincenzo]

No, my approach would be using other forms of discipline. There are plenty of them. Sorry, there is nothing cool, manly, or responsible about using size and strength to discipline a child. What lesson does that teach them? That's beating people and using their size/strength over them is right? And what happens when a young man tries to apply the same concepts they learned from their folks to a young woman?

Beyond that, what's with the ridiculous stereotype post? Your lack of intelligence is showing.
In my opinion it has nothing to do with a lack of intelligence. Rather, more to do with the difficulty with the subject of disciplining.
Family matters often escalate which can end up in regretful endings.

[call_me_ishmael]

I would just ask this question: When a situation arises that results in violence, have you ever exited the situation with more respect for the other person as a whole? I know that I have not. Respect is key IMO.

[mraynrand]

I would just ask this question: When a situation arises that results in violence, have you ever exited the situation with more respect for the other person as a whole? I know that I have not. Respect is key IMO.

I had a lot of respect for Steven Seagal in "Hard to Kill"

[falco]

Beyond that, what's with the ridiculous stereotype post?Your lack of intelligence is showing.

Um... when has he shown anything but???

[Zool]

I suppose your approach would be give them a hug and tell them they can be any gender they want to be. Then help them find their safe place.

There couldn't possibly be a place in the middle of the two. Right?

[3irty1]

Beating your children to avoid other, possibly worse beatings, might seem to be necessary, but its not desirable.

Same goes for spanking. If you can get the behavior change without the violence (I disagree with Joe that hitting is not violence, its message is pain, fear and/or humiliation no matter the velocity or frequency) it would be best to avoid it.

I agree completely that corporal punishment is not the best parenting technique. I'm making excuses because what Green did might not have been abuse a generation or two ago depending on degree. Furthermore its likely that most other people in his life were raised this way. You know these days you have to be culturally sensitive or you're a racist.

[hoosier]

I think the most likely scenario is the girl was refusing to do what she was supposed to do as a condition of her living in the house, Ahman started nagging her, and the girl got sassy and he finally snapped on her. Hitting a child because they pushed your buttons is not disciplining the child under any definition. It is simply losing control.

[MadtownPacker]

I would just ask this question: When a situation arises that results in violence, have you ever exited the situation with more respect for the other person as a whole? I know that I have not. Respect is key IMO.Respect? Re-fucking-spect you say? Didn't you personal attack skinbasket's family? Quit acting all indignant cuz you are really just ignant. Fake ass act that no one is buying or even willing to rent.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f5/9b/c7/f59bc7afb1714e5adc009b3e9c791371.jpg

[3irty1]

I think the most likely scenario is the girl was refusing to do what she was supposed to do as a condition of her living in the house, Ahman started nagging her, and the girl got sassy and he finally snapped on her. Hitting a child because they pushed your buttons is not disciplining the child under any definition. It is simply losing control.

She was punished for being disobedient, not just because he was an angry maniac lashing out blindly. We wouldn't expect him to fly off the handle and smack his kid if the Packers lost for instance. Discipline and losing control are not mutually exclusive although I agree that they definitely should be. I doubt much corporal punishment is administered by cool-headed parents.

[hoosier]

She was punished for being disobedient, not just because he was an angry maniac lashing out blindly. We wouldn't expect him to fly off the handle and smack his kid if the Packers lost for instance. Discipline and losing control are not mutually exclusive although I agree that they definitely should be. I doubt much corporal punishment is administered by cool-headed parents.

An angry maniac thrashing around blindly is not quite what I had in mind. The hypothetical scenario I was envisioning is someone who has been seething quietly for a while and, when the kid finally says something insulting about his wife (I'm assuming they're married; she is not the daughter's biological mother), he gives her a hard backhand, breaking her glasses and bruising the side of her face. That isn't discipline.

[3irty1]

An angry maniac thrashing around blindly is not quite what I had in mind. The hypothetical scenario I was envisioning is someone who has been seething quietly for a while and, when the kid finally says something insulting about his wife (I'm assuming they're married; she is not the daughter's biological mother), he gives her a hard backhand, breaking her glasses and bruising the side of her face. That isn't discipline.

Why exactly? Is he not training her to obey a code of behavior? Again, its obviously bad practice... but I don't see how its not discipline. It seems exactly like discipline of the old school variety.

[mraynrand]

I think the most likely scenario is the girl was refusing to do what she was supposed to do as a condition of her living in the house, Ahman started nagging her, and the girl got sassy and he finally snapped on her. Hitting a child because they pushed your buttons is not disciplining the child under any definition. It is simply losing control.

Fact check: probably true. Wise.

[mraynrand]

Yep, this. There are a million other ways to get your point across and assert authority rather than using size/strength/violence against a person.

Your technique is to make a million flawed arguments.

[mraynrand]

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/f5/9b/c7/f59bc7afb1714e5adc009b3e9c791371.jpg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXMXMz4y88U

[hoosier]

Why exactly? Is he not training her to obey a code of behavior? Again, its obviously bad practice... but I don't see how its not discipline. It seems exactly like discipline of the old school variety.

Well, let's see, what exactly would that kind of reaction teach a child? To do the dishes when told? That her views and needs are unimportant in comparison to those of others? To fear her father because he's likely to hurt her if she makes him angry?

I say hitting a child in anger is not discipline because it sets a problematic example, and because the child is likely to be responding to anger and fear over anything else. Generally speaking humans don't learn well in those situations.

[call_me_ishmael]

Your technique is to make a million flawed arguments.

How is saying "don't beat your kid, there are other ways" a flawed argument??

[3irty1]

Well, let's see, what exactly would that kind of reaction teach a child? To do the dishes when told? That her views and needs are unimportant in comparison to those of others? To fear her father because he's likely to hurt her if she makes him angry?

I say hitting a child in anger is not discipline because it sets a problematic example, and because the child is likely to be responding to anger and fear over anything else. Generally speaking humans don't learn well in those situations.

This is no mystery. It teaches a child that their behavior resulted in a negative outcome among other things. You're not going to get me to defend the practice of getting physical with children, as you say there are much better ways that set a better example, are much more instructive, and cultivate a better learning environment. But poorly executed discipline is still discipline. If this wasn't, very little of what has ever been called discipline actually was. There are probably people on this site that were hit by teachers in school. This type of stuff was a completely normal part of the human experience for thousands of years. I remember reading somewhere that in the medieval legal system kids would be beaten to act as a record for litigation; the idea being if you beat them they'll pretty much remember anything for later testimony. That's pretty much the same conventional wisdom that survived until a blink in history ago.

BTW, the only reason I push on the semantic of discipline or not is because it informs his intentions here. Its the difference between the alcoholic who beats his kids for his own sake vs the parent who does it as an uninformed disciplinarian.

[hoosier]

I understand your point, but I don't think the lesson can ever be completely clear when physical harm or the threat of harm is involved. Let's assume you're right, and the child learns that when she doesn't listen to Dad then bad things happen. How does that lesson translate into the rest of her life? Does she internalize responsibility for taking care of where she lives? Does she learn to obey the voice of authority simply because it is the authority? Does she simply internalize that she should do what Dad says because he says? I spent some time in a school system in another country where corporal punishment was quite common and often very brutal. I would say that overall the children there were slightly better behaved than their American peers (only slightly) and that they were considerably less adept at thinking for themselves. Their idea of learning was listening to what the teacher told them and memorizing it. That idea stays with many of them throughout their entire education. The change in parenting and discipline culture is new, I agree, and it's easy to assume that if things were done a certain way for a very long time then the results must not be all that bad. Maybe for the average kid they are not, because most kids have supportive, loving families or are simply a lot more resilient than we often give them credit for being.

[pbmax]

The kind of negative reaction you impart is very important.

To expect physical assault is simply to fear the abuse again. Its a pretty bad feedback loop to reinforce.

There are a lot of negative outcomes that do not involve a violent act. Refusing to do the dishes or mouthing off can limit your access to that allowance, the car, time away from the home, internet, phone, other favors, trips to see family, etc.

[Joemailman]

The number of responses to this thread has reminded me of one thing:

There is way too much time between minicamp and training camp.

[mraynrand]

How is saying "don't beat your kid, there are other ways" a flawed argument??

That's not what you wrote, Hotspur. Read what you wrote again, and think about how you will keep your kid from running into traffic or taking things from other kids.

[pbmax]

The number of responses to this thread has reminded me of one thing:

There is way too much time between minicamp and training camp.

A: Spring Football League. Now.

[MadtownPacker]

How is saying "don't beat your kid, there are other ways" a flawed argument??Ultimate test, did you get beat as a child?

[MadtownPacker]

Must have clicked on the wrong shit. Threads wasn't suppose to be locked. Thanks for pointing it out 31.

[Vincenzo]

The number of responses to this thread has reminded me of one thing:

There is way too much time between minicamp and training camp.
Boy, ain't that the truth!

[Rutnstrut]

The world is becoming pussified. Perhaps Green crossed a line. But the line is getting pushed back to not being able to discipline your kids at all. All that does is create entitled assholes aka liberals.

[falco]

Ultimate test, did you get beat as a child?

Because if it made sense 30 years ago, it must make sense now!

[call_me_ishmael]

Of course I wasn't beaten as a child. My parents were educated. Beating someone up loses you respect in the end. When your kids don't respect you, what influence do you have over them?

[MadtownPacker]

Of course I wasn't beaten as a child. My parents were educated. Beating someone up loses you respect in the end. When your kids don't respect you, what influence do you have over them?You are such a sorry piece of shit. So any parent who did is uneducated?

If you are the result of not getting spanked ever then the results more than speak for themselves.

[gbgary]

i got spanked with a paddle at home a few times and at school too in later years. never did me any harm physically or mentally. didn't hurt my relationship with my parents. i've no problem with corporal punishment. as for ahman...not sure how accurate the stories coming out are but later in the process it will become more clear.


Ahman Ah-rested clever.

[ThunderDan]

But the line is getting pushed back to not being able to discipline your kids at all. All that does is create entitled assholes aka liberals.

When did anyone here say you shouldn't be able to discipline your child? If your only method of disciplining your child is to hit them you are a piece of shit as a parent.

[Rutnstrut]

When did anyone here say you shouldn't be able to discipline your child? If your only method of disciplining your child is to hit them you are a piece of shit as a parent.

People bitch now if you talk sternly to your children. People whine if you ground them. If by hitting them, you mean give them a swat on the ass when they have it coming. Yes I hit them. I also have absolutely no problem putting a boot up either of my teenagers ass if they do something stupid.

[pbmax]

People bitch now if you talk sternly to your children. People whine if you ground them. If by hitting them, you mean give them a swat on the ass when they have it coming. Yes I hit them. I also have absolutely no problem putting a boot up either of my teenagers ass if they do something stupid.

I have never met anyone who disagreed with grounding children for infractions.

Come to think of it, I have known anyone well and found they did not talk sternly to their children at times.

I do object to the boot though.

[ThunderDan]

People bitch now if you talk sternly to your children. People whine if you ground them. If by hitting them, you mean give them a swat on the ass when they have it coming. Yes I hit them. I also have absolutely no problem putting a boot up either of my teenagers ass if they do something stupid.

First sentence is a complete lie. Second sentence is a complete lie. Sentences 3-5, you obviously didn't read what I wrote and felt you needed to defend your position.

We have spanked our child. My sentence was if your only method of disciplining your child is to hit them you are a piece of shit as a parent.

But in all of the times we have disciplined our son we have only once spanked him. There are so many more appropriate ways that have a bigger impact in their life than a slap on the butt.

[falco]

People bitch now if you talk sternly to your children. People whine if you ground them.

Who are these people? </Seinfeld>

[mraynrand]

I do object to the boot though.

Sometimes immobilizing their car is the only option.

[mraynrand]

When did anyone here say you shouldn't be able to discipline your child? If your only method of disciplining your child is to hit them you are a piece of shit as a parent.

You beat me to the punch.

[pbmax]

Rut might be posting from hell, literally, because all of his worst nightmares seem to be happening at once, all the time.

[Rutnstrut]

Rut might be posting from hell, literally, because all of his worst nightmares seem to be happening at once, all the time.

Not quite hell, although I hate this freaking humidity.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I do object to the boot though.

Agreed. Tank was ill-treated.

[mraynrand]

Agreed. Tank was ill-treated.

There's been a lot of changes in the law. Trolling is now allowed on all inland waters with 1 hook, bait or lure per angler.