More Banjo: Week 2 @ Atlanta

[pbmax]

A war of attrition and abject failure (first half).

Reminds me of playoff game, but also Carolina game a couple of years ago when the Panthers D called off the dogs and almost allowed a comeback.

Packers lost Daniels (had a hip, now a quad), House, Cobb (shoulder), Nelson (hammy/quad?), Evans (groin - he returned)

[pbmax]

GB Atl
First Downs 25 19
Passes for First 18 12
Rushes for First 4 7
Penalties for First 3 0
Third Down Efficiency 5-12 5-11
Fourth Down Efficiency 3-3 0-0
Total Yards 373 364
Total Plays 68 58
Avg Gain Per Play 5.5 6.3
Net Yards Rushing 59 141
Rushes 15 27
Yards Per Rush 3.9 5.2

Net Yards Passing 314 223
Comp-Att 33-50 19-28
Yards Per Pass 5.9 7.2
Times Sacked 3 3
Yds Lost To Sacks 29 29
Interceptions Thrown 1 0
Punts 3 4
Punt Average 39.7 41.3
Penalties 10 6
Penalty Yards 70 34
Fumbles 1 0
Fumbles Lost 1 0
ToP 31:04 28:56

[Freak Out]

Brutal.

[Joemailman]

Rodgers got out alive. We live to fight another day.

[pbmax]

WAY too many big pays surrendered. They have no idea how to defend that offensive pass scheme.

[Joemailman]

WAY too many big pays surrendered. They have no idea how to defend that offensive pass scheme.

Have somebody cut Julio Jones' hamstring. He'll quit the game.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-LWb71QCkVE

[pbmax]

Apparently, no one is covering the PC's on Twitter anymore. There is a periscope of the podium though. More recap will follow in AM.

[texaspackerbacker]

Let's not blow this out of proportion. We ran into a very good team, at their home - their brand new home, playing inspired football, against the injury-riddled Packers - although I think that factor is partially overrated. We had a couple of critical bad calls that arguably turned the game around. And last but not least, we had a shitty (IMO) hyper-cautious game plan - programming Rodgers to do what so many in here whine for him to do, rush to get rid of the ball quick because of the new tackles - in reality, they weren't that much worse than the plow horses they replaced. Truth is, our O Line is always pretty crappy, and most of the time Rodgers can use his mobility to make plays. Tonight, McCarthy did not allow him to do that until we were so damn far behind that it didn't make much difference.

For anybody thinking the Falcons are some super team, head and shoulders better than the Packers, think last week when they damn near lost to the Bears.

We will undoubtedly meet this team again, hopefully in Green Bay in the playoffs, but even if it is their place again, the perfect shitstorm of tonight likely won't happen again.

[mraynrand]

And last but not least, we had a shitty (IMO) hyper-cautious game plan - programming Rodgers to do what so many in here whine for him to do, rush to get rid of the ball quick because of the new tackles - in reality, they weren't that much worse than the plow horses they replaced.

Sometimes I think you can't really be as stupid as I think you are, but then you totally redeem yourself.

[yetisnowman]

^^^^Yeah but the shitstorm happened in the NFC championship game and the second half of the regular season game last year too. So I don't think of us as a terrible team after tonight, but I definitely don't have faith we can come to Atlanta and win as currently constructed. We really got manhandled in almost every individual match up, ncluding starters on starters. We are way less explosive on both sides of the ball. And when the n squad comes in it gets even worse. Pretty rough night.

[call_me_ishmael]

Well, I was definitely wrong. Atlanta still has speed in spades. Holy schnikes are they ever in a different class than the Packers speed and route running wise.

[Joemailman]

People can talk about the failures of the defense all they want. But when you're going up against the NFL's #1 offense, you need to score points. In the last 2 meetings, the Packers have scored a total of 7 points in the 1st half. I know they were limited in what they could do offensively tonight because of the injuries to Bulaga, Bakh and Jordy. My point is that if they're going to beat Atlanta, they're going to need the offense hitting on all cylinders. It can happen if they're healthy offensively. The defense gave up 27 points tonight. That's not great, but it's good enough to keep the team in the game if the offense is functioning properly.

[Freak Out]

When starters start dropping its tough to win...when it happens on the road in Atlanta you can pretty much forget about it. They will come back strong as long as guys like big Mike and Nelson aren't gone long.

[mmmdk]

How serious are the injuries to the various Packer players?

[hoosier]

People can talk about the failures of the defense all they want. But when you're going up against the NFL's #1 offense, you need to score points. In the last 2 meetings, the Packers have scored a total of 7 points in the 1st half. I know they were limited in what they could do offensively tonight because of the injuries to Bulaga, Bakh and Jordy. My point is that if they're going to beat Atlanta, they're going to need the offense hitting on all cylinders. It can happen if they're healthy offensively. The defense gave up 27 points tonight. That's not great, but it's good enough to keep the team in the game if the offense is functioning properly.

Did they hold Atl to 27 or did Atl let up on the gas in the second half?

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Did they hold Atl to 27 or did Atl let up on the gas in the second half?

Me thinks the latter...

[Maxie the Taxi]

My takeaways from the game:
1) Our secondary at this stage of the game is about as bad as it was last year. If the opposing QB has time in the pocket, we can't stay with quality receivers. This may improve as Kevin King improves and as Dom gets his personnel sorted out. Putting Randall on Jones is not the answer.

2) Our ability to pressure the QB is about the same as last year. Whether it's scheme or players, we just weren't able to get into Atlanta's backfield consistently enough. I watched the Denver/Cowgirls game earlier and the Packers D is not anywhere near Denver's. We need to get Daniels healthy, but even then I don't think we're where we should be.

3) We live and die with Arod. Yesterday we did both. His great plays were overshadowed by his bonehead ones. Take away his interception at the end of the first half and his backward pass pick six at the start of the second and we're still in the game. When Arod tries to do too much, he's not the Super Star QB we've become accustomed to.

4) The NFL is getting to be like the NBA. OPI, DPI and blocking-related penalties are all but arbitrarily called and, as a result, their impact on the game is way too significant. I form this opinion not only by watching our game, but on other Week 1 and 2 games I've watched. Maybe the answer to this is to give each team one or two replay reviews of calls that are not now reviewable.

[texaspackerbacker]

Sometimes I think you can't really be as stupid as I think you are, but then you totally redeem yourself.

Generally I'll reserve calling you a self-consumed IDIOT for FYI, but since you infected this area of the forum, I'll respond. You are seriously blind to the rottenness of our O Line? how QBs like Brady actually get time to set up and throw, which Aaron Rodgers virtually never does? how other teams have holes to run through, which the Packers virtually never do?

It's a testament to Aaron Rodgers that the Packers are as great as they are with as awful an O Line as they have.

[3irty1]

People can talk about the failures of the defense all they want. But when you're going up against the NFL's #1 offense, you need to score points. In the last 2 meetings, the Packers have scored a total of 7 points in the 1st half. I know they were limited in what they could do offensively tonight because of the injuries to Bulaga, Bakh and Jordy. My point is that if they're going to beat Atlanta, they're going to need the offense hitting on all cylinders. It can happen if they're healthy offensively. The defense gave up 27 points tonight. That's not great, but it's good enough to keep the team in the game if the offense is functioning properly.

This. Its incredibly frustrating to me that this offense will rank top 3 in output by the end of the year but at times will look like it did last night. Doing nothing on offense has a way of breaking the defense too. We got blown out and everybody is already hurt by week 3. Classic.

[texaspackerbacker]

My takeaways from the game:
1) Our secondary at this stage of the game is about as bad as it was last year. If the opposing QB has time in the pocket, we can't stay with quality receivers. This may improve as Kevin King improves and as Dom gets his personnel sorted out. Putting Randall on Jones is not the answer.

2) Our ability to pressure the QB is about the same as last year. Whether it's scheme or players, we just weren't able to get into Atlanta's backfield consistently enough. I watched the Denver/Cowgirls game earlier and the Packers D is not anywhere near Denver's. We need to get Daniels healthy, but even then I don't think we're where we should be.

3) We live and die with Arod. Yesterday we did both. His great plays were overshadowed by his bonehead ones. Take away his interception at the end of the first half and his backward pass pick six at the start of the second and we're still in the game. When Arod tries to do too much, he's not the Super Star QB we've become accustomed to.

4) The NFL is getting to be like the NBA. OPI, DPI and blocking-related penalties are all but arbitrarily called and, as a result, their impact on the game is way too significant. I form this opinion not only by watching our game, but on other Week 1 and 2 games I've watched. Maybe the answer to this is to give each team one or two replay reviews of calls that are not now reviewable.

One bright spot certainly was King looking a LOT better than he ever looked in the preseason. We were in a screwed if you do/screwed if you don't situation on blitzing. We seemingly shoulda done more of it, but that too much left single coverage. Montgomery also had a good game under bad circumstances.

I watched the Dallas/Denver game too - another case of home field being a major factor. Dallas's Corners are worse than ours and their defensive scheme is worse too. Usually their D Line and Backers are good enough to compensate - not this week. You're right, Denver's D - in this game for sure, maybe in general - is better than ours, although I recall times we shut down Adrian Peterson the way they did Ezekial Elliot.

Hell yeah, we live and die with ARod - thanks Ted for not building up the rest of the team any better. As for the "bonehead" plays, the so-called backward pass was not; It was slightly forward, as the replay showed - and the rotten O Line gets most of the blame for getting the QB clobbered that way. And the interception may have been Rodgers' mistake, but it more likely was Allison's fault at least in part.

We had a bad day on penalties, true, but I think your replay challenge thing might bite us in the ass more often than not. Unlike some of my favorite sports teams that I'm convinced get shafted regularly, the Packers most of the time get fair, even good treatment. The play where McCarthy got his penalty, as the commentators completely missed, I think he was complaining that Atlanta did the same thing that was called a pick against the Packers and got away with it on the TD play.

This was one game - a bad day and shitty circumstances. The Packers will be all right. We are as good as if not better than Atlanta probably way better than anybody else in the NFC, maybe in the NFL.

[bobblehead]

Well, I was definitely wrong. Atlanta still has speed in spades. Holy schnikes are they ever in a different class than the Packers speed and route running wise.

Not really. They have Julio Jones and we don't have an answer for him. Other than that they are not as superior as they looked. This is week 2 against the best team in football (imo). We aren't as good as they are, but by week 19 you never know.

[bobblehead]

People can talk about the failures of the defense all they want. But when you're going up against the NFL's #1 offense, you need to score points. In the last 2 meetings, the Packers have scored a total of 7 points in the 1st half. I know they were limited in what they could do offensively tonight because of the injuries to Bulaga, Bakh and Jordy. My point is that if they're going to beat Atlanta, they're going to need the offense hitting on all cylinders. It can happen if they're healthy offensively. The defense gave up 27 points tonight. That's not great, but it's good enough to keep the team in the game if the offense is functioning properly.

And this is why I constantly harp on the ability to run the football. You have success running the ball early and everything changes. Rodgers faces more 2nd and 4, their D stays on the field and gets gassed, their O stays on the sidelines and can't get rhythm...you know, kinda like what happened to us.

[Teamcheez1]

I have been supportive of Dom Capers over the years, but I wonder if we have any chance of ever beating the Falcons with him as the defensive coordinator.

The Bears only lost by 6 points to the Falcons. We haven't even shown a glimmer of hope in the last 3 games with the Falcons.

Of course, the offense hasn't looked much better either. They have now managed just 7 points in the first halves of the last two games.

[mraynrand]

Generally I'll reserve calling you a self-consumed IDIOT for FYI, but since you infected this area of the forum, I'll respond. You are seriously blind to the rottenness of our O Line? how QBs like Brady actually get time to set up and throw, which Aaron Rodgers virtually never does? how other teams have holes to run through, which the Packers virtually never do?

It's a testament to Aaron Rodgers that the Packers are as great as they are with as awful an O Line as they have.

If the success of the O-line is completely due to Rodgers, then why weren't they as successful yesterday, and in 2015 at AZ with Bac out, or any other time they have multiple O-line injuries? See how your stupid moronic theory collapses on itself?

[mraynrand]

We haven't even shown a glimmer of hope in the last 3 games with the Falcons.

This is silly. They had several stops yesterday. Yesterday was kindof a clusterfavre - a collection of failings. There are places where the defense needs to improve, and APRH by the end of the season they should. Obviously, the offense should be much better when Bac, Bulaga, Nelson and Cobb return.

[pbmax]

Being on the road was the worst situation for that O line. Unsure how loud it was, but some stadiums could make that intolerable.

If you mess with Rodgers protection, he gets antsy and sometimes looks like 2008 Rodgers. That leads to some inaccuracy and then drops. tex has one thing I agree with, Rodgers can make leaky protection look good. But he needs it to be predictable and not constant. It started out OK (they had a decent number of yards early) but got worse until the Atl D wore itself out.

I am not a fan of the offensive progression being Nelson for a while, then Cobb then when there is no other choice, Adams. Adams is the only dynamic one out there. Feed him.

Bennett and Rodgers are just not on the same page yet. It sorted itself out with Cook, it will with Bennett.

On defense, the DBs all look like they have never seen a crossing route. There is never anyone on the opposite side of the field to tattoo someone. Which tells me they are pressuring, but the pressure isn't getting home often enough.

House looked old at times and then got hurt. Randall is a willing tackler, but if you put a move on him, he reacts as though someone set off a firework. I don't see him surviving in the slot. Can you imagine the knot Edelman or Welker would put him in?

I would start Jones and King and live with it until they get better. Both are able tacklers in run support. Let's keep the number of problems to a minimum for now.

[Joemailman]

I have been supportive of Dom Capers over the years, but I wonder if we have any chance of ever beating the Falcons with him as the defensive coordinator.

The Bears only lost by 6 points to the Falcons. We haven't even shown a glimmer of hope in the last 3 games with the Falcons.

Of course, the offense hasn't looked much better either. They have now managed just 7 points in the first halves of the last two games.

One glimmer of hope is that at times King looked like someone who could be able to match up with someone like Jones. He's not there yet, but I think he has the ability.

Forget about that Bear game. Falcons looked flat in that game. Some of it may have been playing on a slower field, but I think they looked past the Bears.

3 years ago, the Packers got smoked by Seattle in Week 1 and started out 1-2. By the end of the year they were arguably the best team in the NFL. Having the best team in September doesn't get you in the Super Bowl.

[Guiness]

On defense, the DBs all look like they have never seen a crossing route. There is never anyone on the opposite side of the field to tattoo someone. Which tells me they are pressuring, but the pressure isn't getting home often enough.


This. Falcons made hay on that several times last night, and the (warranted) preoccupation with Jones allowed Sanu to eat their lunch.

[pbmax]

Nice breakdown of what should have happened on the Cobb/Bennett pick play.

http://scout.com/nfl/packers/Article/Green-Bay-Packers-Feel-Picked-On-in-Loss-to-Atlanta-Falcons-107606935

[pbmax]

Packer Report‏ @PackerReport 37m37 minutes ago
From my 20-note Numbers piece:
1: Yard gained on GB's second through sixth possessions.
75: Distance of Green Bay’s game-opening TD drive.

[pbmax]

Bob McGinn @BobMcGinn 40m40 minutes ago
At http://bobmcginnfootball.com : Quinn goes to 3-0 vs. #Packers with better turnover differential, fewer penalties and stronger play at QB.


Bob (or his social media director) is laying this at McCarthy's feet. But the entries fail to capture the most important elements of the game.

#injuries to O line
#secondary ineptness
#injury to Nelson

[pbmax]

Green Bay Packers @packers 2h2 hours ago
"I thought our guys fought back, we didn't have enough"
1-on-1 with Coach McCarthy after #GBvsATL: http://pckrs.com/rc7md

Green Bay Packers @packers 10h10 hours ago
Rodgers: It was a tough game. They're a fantastic team, well-coached, MVP quarterback. #GBvsATL

Green Bay Packers @packers 2h2 hours ago
Aaron Rodgers talks about the "what if" moments in #GBvsATL

��: http://pckrs.com/3teee

[pbmax]

Kentrell Brice (groin) was injured and out for the game at some point. Probably when Jones entered the game.

Nelson (quad)
Daniels (hammy)
Evans (groin) it was noted he returned to game but unsure for how long
Cobb (shoulder)

[Joemailman]

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/09/18/damarious-randall-quinten-rollins-fail-big-test-vs-falcons/

Hard to argue with any of this:


According to initial numbers tallied by Pro Football Focus, the Falcons completed 10 passes on 11 targets for 148 yards against the coverage of Randall and Rollins on Sunday night.

The excuses are running out for a pair of third-year players who were drafted to be the backbone of Green Bay’s cornerback group. No longer are injuries a valid explanation for getting beat, often so effortlessly.

Randall has the athleticism and quick-twitch movements to be an effective coverage corner, but he’s frequently lazy in his footwork and inconsistent with his jams at the line of scrimmage. That combination leads to a lot of trailing coverage after getting smoked off the line of scrimmage.

Rollins just isn’t athletic enough to handle perimeter coverage on a consistent basis, especially on a fast track like Atlanta’s or against the speed the Falcons possess at receiver.

More importantly, they both seem to lack a threshold level of situational awareness.

Rookie Kevin King wasn’t perfect on Sunday night, but at least he battled. The Packers’ top pick passed his trial by fire. He even won a few one-on-one battles against Jones.

It’s clear who the future of the position is in Green Bay. No longer does that title belong to Randall or Rollins. If the Packers are to ever match what the Falcons are capable of in the passing game, it’ll come from King and his progression over the next four months. The futures of Randall and Rollins look considerably dimmer after a healthy disaster on Sunday night in Atlanta.

[mraynrand]

I don't know why Randall's technique is so awful and I don't know why anyone ever thought Rollins was suited to play outside.

Let King play. Maybe by the end of the season he'll get close to being a lockdown corner. They have to have one so the safeties can help on the other side. House is no answer; he's running in quicksand.

I have no idea why they do about the slot. Maybe make a trade?

[Harlan Huckleby]

They have Julio Jones and we don't have an answer for him. Other than that they are not as superior as they looked.

Who am gonna believe, you or my own lying eyes?

I'm not familiar with their receivers, but looks like Jordy would be a #3 on that team. Their wideouts are way quicker than our DBs. It's true that a lot can change in three months with injuries.

[mraynrand]

Who am gonna believe, you or my own lying eyes?

I'm not familiar with their receivers, but looks like Jordy would be a #3 on that team. Their wideouts are way quicker than our DBs. It's true that a lot can change in three months with injuries.

I'd love to see our WRs match up against Rollins, Randall and House.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Maybe somebody more expert than me can do this. If you combined Green Bay and Atlanta's WRs, what would be pecking order for top five?

[pbmax]

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 6m6 minutes ago
#Packers WR Randall Cobb, who left yesterday’s game with a shoulder injury, will have an MRI today to determine the severity, source said.

[mraynrand]

I have no idea why they do about the slot. Maybe make a trade?

Work Jones in there as soon as possible. Maybe even give a few snaps to Evans.

Randall and House can battle it out for other edge corner.

There's time to do this. Packers won't face a road game with the combination of O-line, QB, running game, and stable of WRs that ATL has until maybe Pittsburgh. (Cowpokes may or may not have Elliot, and their receivers are not as good).

[pbmax]

Maybe somebody more expert than me can do this. If you combined Green Bay and Atlanta's WRs, what would be pecking order for top five?

1. Jones
2. Nelson (healthy version)
3. Adams
4. Cobb
5. Sanu

[mraynrand]

1. Jones
2. Nelson (healthy version)
3. Adams
4. Cobb
5. Sanu

I think Sanu and Adams are pretty close, but I'd give the nod to Adams. Cobb can't get open on his own, except for maybe a quick hitch.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Did anybody else notice that our tackling in general was pretty weak?

It seemed to me there was a lot of tackling-by-means-of-a-rolling-block going on. Our guys were slamming into people, hitting them high, bouncing off, not wrapping up. I'd love to know how many yards the Atlanta RB's and receivers made after contact. Stubby/Dom need to work on some fundamentals of tackling.

Maybe it's just a shortened training camp with less contact that is the cause and things will get better after a few games. But Atlanta seemed to tackle better than we did.

[Freak Out]

Nice breakdown of what should have happened on the Cobb/Bennett pick play.

http://scout.com/nfl/packers/Article/Green-Bay-Packers-Feel-Picked-On-in-Loss-to-Atlanta-Falcons-107606935

Yep....watching that was pretty frustrating.

[woodbuck27]

Let's not blow this out of proportion. We ran into a very good team, at their home - their brand new home, playing inspired football, against the injury-riddled Packers - although I think that factor is partially overrated. We had a couple of critical bad calls that arguably turned the game around. And last but not least, we had a shitty (IMO) hyper-cautious game plan - programming Rodgers to do what so many in here whine for him to do, rush to get rid of the ball quick because of the new tackles - in reality, they weren't that much worse than the plow horses they replaced. Truth is, our O Line is always pretty crappy, and most of the time Rodgers can use his mobility to make plays. Tonight, McCarthy did not allow him to do that until we were so damn far behind that it didn't make much difference.

For anybody thinking the Falcons are some super team, head and shoulders better than the Packers, think last week when they damn near lost to the Bears.

We will undoubtedly meet this team again, hopefully in Green Bay in the playoffs, but even if it is their place again, the perfect shitstorm of tonight likely won't happen again.

An encouraging Post when it far too early in our Season 'FOR ANY PANIC' !

Repped.

[woodbuck27]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/10/18/article-0-18D36A8E00000578-176_634x347.jpg

The Green Bay Packers boarding the Jet to depart Atlanta, Georgia for Wisconsin Week 2 of the 2017-18 NFL Season.

Skip Ballard‏ @skipperball Sep 14 ....Replying to @RobDemovsky
Seriously, WHY and HOW does the #packers trainers keep their jobs, i mean I know it's a physical sport, but this is just ridiculous.

[woodbuck27]

Did anybody else notice that our tackling in general was pretty weak?

It seemed to me there was a lot of tackling-by-means-of-a-rolling-block going on. Our guys were slamming into people, hitting them high, bouncing off, not wrapping up. I'd love to know how many yards the Atlanta RB's and receivers made after contact. Stubby/Dom need to work on some fundamentals of tackling.

Maybe it's just a shortened training camp with less contact that is the cause and things will get better after a few games. But Atlanta seemed to tackle better than we did.

It's been just like that it seems to me (and generally) since way back in the early 2000's.

[woodbuck27]

1. Jones
2. Nelson (healthy version)
3. Adams
4. Cobb
5. Sanu

That's about right...some may flip Cobb and Sanu.

[texaspackerbacker]

If the success of the O-line is completely due to Rodgers, then why weren't they as successful yesterday, and in 2015 at AZ with Bac out, or any other time they have multiple O-line injuries? See how your stupid moronic theory collapses on itself?

Who said anything about "success of the O-line"? I said the team has been successful - to a great extent anyway. The O Line has never provided adequate pass protection and has almost never opened decent holes for the running game. We pass successfully because Rodgers is so damn good, both throwing accurately and with his mobility to get away from the rush. The only time we can run the ball at all is when there is deception - draw, misdirection, etc. Line up and run right at 'em, and it just doesn't work.

As for theory as you call it hahahahaha, overrated "stars" like Sitton and Lang leave and flounder elsewhere, while mediocre replacements come in and it's all about the same. We beat Seattle with scrubs at tackle, and if necessary, we'll beat Cincinnati and whoever else down the line that way.

As I said, the Atlanta game was a perfect shitstorm in a lot of ways.

[hoosier]

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet 6m6 minutes ago
#Packers WR Randall Cobb, who left yesterday’s game with a shoulder injury, will have an MRI today to determine the severity, source said.

Oh goody, another shoulder separation. Sounds like out for 4-6 weeks followed by substandard production for the rest of the year. The Packers, being the Packers, will know what to expect.

We need a thread on Packer injuries. Not injured Packers but types or kinds of injury that seem to accumulate more than one would expect in Green Bay. A modern day parallel to Aristotle's Metaphysics.

[hoosier]

I think Sanu and Adams are pretty close, but I'd give the nod to Adams. Cobb can't get open on his own, except for maybe a quick hitch.

Cobb can't bring his arm across the midline right now. Put him down below Atlanta's blocking TE.

[Joemailman]

nm

[mraynrand]

Who said anything about "success of the O-line"? I said the team has been successful - to a great extent anyway.

So what? You're still wrong. The point is that if Rodgers is the guy who makes the line, then he should play just as well behind Murphy and McCray as behind Bahktiari and Bulaga. But he didn't and he doesn't because you're wrong - the Packer O-line has been good in the past and was pretty good to start this season.

And they draft agile guys specifically to block for a mobile guy like Rogers. Maybe they give up a bit in the run game, but it's a passing league and they have the best QB, so they should play to their strengths.

Packers got rid of Sitton and Lang because they were getting too old and too beat up. Taylor has been fine and I don't know about Evans yet.

But, to summarize: 1) you're wrong 2) you didn't address the point.

[Joemailman]

Good news for Cobb. Nothing major. He's day to day.

[mraynrand]

Oh goody, another shoulder separation. Sounds like out for 4-6 weeks followed by substandard production for the rest of the year. The Packers, being the Packers, will know what to expect.

We need a thread on Packer injuries. Not injured Packers but types or kinds of injury that seem to accumulate more than one would expect in Green Bay. A modern day parallel to Aristotle's Metaphysics.

This is good material. If you could identify the efficient cause of Packer injuries, I'm sure Stubby would set up a formal meeting to hear your final thoughts.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Good news for Cobb. Nothing major. He's day to day.

uh oh. sounds bad.

[pbmax]

uh oh. sounds bad.

Its the day to day stuff that always gets me.

[pbmax]

Jason Wilde @jasonjwilde 3h3 hours ago
Rewatching #Packers-#Falcons, looks like Nelson bangs knees with Alford running a route. Will hopefully get update from McCarthy at 7 p.m.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKBsnNKWAAA4F_Y.jpg:large

[pbmax]

Demovsky

The Packers don't believe Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb or Mike Daniels have long-term injuries, but there are still awaiting all the test results. Mike McCarthy may have an update this evening when he holds his day-after-game press conference at 7 p.m. CT but they are likely to be considered day to day, week to week injuries like most soft tissue problems are.

[Joemailman]

Rob Demovsky
ESPN Staff Writer

Top draft pick Kevin King was one of the few bright spots on defense. He had three tackles and a pass breakup in 46 snaps – 40 more than he played in the opener – as Damarious Randall and Quinten Rollins got pulled at different points in Sunday's loss to the Falcons.

Long Live The King!

[pbmax]

Long Live The King!

He looked like an octopus out there.

[pbmax]

Practice is overrated, 2017 Season Edition #1:

Fackrell and King are playing better than they practiced.

[Joemailman]

Defensive snap counts:

http://d2s3dt9f4iyeup.cloudfront.net/images/standard_v1/a9aacf1e-9a45-4d76-8af8-70ac8f844209.png

[Joemailman]

Offensive snap counts:

http://d2s3dt9f4iyeup.cloudfront.net/images/standard_v1/e9df5b19-af3a-49aa-ae4a-56998af6d757.png

[hoosier]

Demovsky

The Packers don't believe Jordy Nelson, Randall Cobb or Mike Daniels have long-term injuries, but there are still awaiting all the test results. Mike McCarthy may have an update this evening when he holds his day-after-game press conference at 7 p.m. CT but they are likely to be considered day to day, week to week injuries like most soft tissue problems are.

I hope this is not a Jimmy Nelson prognosis....

[woodbuck27]

http://www.nbcsports.com/video/green-bay-packers-follow-familiar-script-early-season-loss-falcons?ls=pftvod

PROFOOTBALLTALK ... Packers' early-season struggles continue in 2017

The Green Bay Packers got a reality check against the Atlanta Falcons, showing the team isn't over its early-season struggles that have haunted them over the past few years.

[woodbuck27]

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2017/9/18/16326180/green-bay-packers-panic-atlanta-falcons

It Isn’t Time for the Packers to Hit the Panic Button … Yet
Despite the lopsided result, Green Bay showed progress in key areas of concern

BY: DANNY KELLY SEP 18, 2017, 9:33AM EDT

" Perceptions can change an awful lot in a week.

After watching the Packers dispatch the Seahawks last Sunday, Green Bay looked ready to take up the mantle as the class of the conference. ...."

" Flash forward a week, and as the fourth quarter kicked off in the Packers’ matchup with the Falcons on Sunday Night Football, Green Bay looked lost. They were trailing 34-10. Injuries had piled up. Rodgers had turned the ball over twice under the weight of the Falcons’ tireless pass rush, and the defense had found no answer for Atlanta’s target-rich and talented offense. In short, Atlanta had dominated in every way.

And sure, Rodgers engineered a pair of touchdown drives in the final frame to make the final score—34-23—somewhat respectable ....."

Please click on the LINK for the entire story.

Comment woodbuck27:

There was simply over the top too much placed on Aaron Rodgers broad shoulders. Why is it that the thing that is perfectly obvious gets 'just left' as it is in Green Bay? I still see a real concern and the Packers weakness at the Running Back Position. Can Ted Thompson get that fixed this season or do we have to wait 1...2...3 years? Get a real RB Ted !

[texaspackerbacker]

So what? You're still wrong. The point is that if Rodgers is the guy who makes the line, then he should play just as well behind Murphy and McCray as behind Bahktiari and Bulaga. But he didn't and he doesn't because you're wrong - the Packer O-line has been good in the past and was pretty good to start this season.

And they draft agile guys specifically to block for a mobile guy like Rogers. Maybe they give up a bit in the run game, but it's a passing league and they have the best QB, so they should play to their strengths.

Packers got rid of Sitton and Lang because they were getting too old and too beat up. Taylor has been fine and I don't know about Evans yet.

But, to summarize: 1) you're wrong 2) you didn't address the point.

You're grasping at straws hahahaha. Draft agile guys? Just because Spriggs has less of a gut than the rest of the bunch doesn't make him agile - not much evidence of agility on any of them. Lack of power to move D Lines, though? There's plenty of evidence of that.

And in case you missed the Seattle game, Rodgers did pretty well with Murphy blocking (if you can call it that) instead of what Bulaga did. We'll see how it goes against Cincy if the two are called on in that game. Somehow, I don't see Rodgers having the problems he had against Atlanta.

The primary thing wrong with Sitton and Lang was they wanted more money. Lane Taylor has been as good as Sitton, even though he was a journeyman who came out of nowhere and is nothing special for talent or athleticism. Evans sure doesn't seem like a pro-bowler any more, but he's adequate in Green Bay - which is pretty much the point, isn't it? Don't get too many penalties, slow down the pass rush just a little bit, and Mr. Rodgers will do the rest.

[woodbuck27]

Next Week and the Cincinnati Bengals:

Intriguing; bring on 'the ugly'.

[woodbuck27]

Whoops !

[yetisnowman]

1. Jones
2. Nelson (healthy version)
3. Adams
4. Cobb
5. Sanu

The problem is the gap between Julio and Jordy is massive, whereas the gap between Jordy and and Sanu is relatively negligible. Nobody is scheming or game planning much for our skill position players. Which I think has proven to be an issue for years now.

[Joemailman]

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/09/18/packers-rookie-cb-kevin-king-has-earned-more-playing-time/


“I thought Kevin did a lot of good things,” McCarthy said on Monday. “I thought he did good in his matchup opportunities. He’s a young man that had some injury things that he fought through in training camp. He’s definitely earned the opportunity to potentially play more.”

King played 46 snaps in Atlanta after being on the field for just six in the season opener. He matched up against All-Pro receiver Julio Jones on a number of snaps and held his own, breaking up a pass intended for Jones in one-on-one coverage in the end zone and another on a short crossing route early in the third quarter.

King could get a heavy dose of Bengals’ Pro Bowl receiver A.J. Green on Sunday at Lambeau Field.

McCarthy and defensive coordinator Dom Capers believe he’s ready for more snaps.

“He’s in a position where he’s done a number of good things with his opportunities, so if anything, he’s earned the right to potentially play more,” McCarthy said. “Smooth, confident athlete. He’s getting healthy. And he looks comfortable out there. So I like the progression Kevin is making.”

[Smidgeon]

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/09/18/packers-rookie-cb-kevin-king-has-earned-more-playing-time/
“I thought Kevin did a lot of good things,” McCarthy said on Monday. “I thought he did good in his matchup opportunities. He’s a young man that had some injury things that he fought through in training camp. He’s definitely earned the opportunity to potentially play more.”

King played 46 snaps in Atlanta after being on the field for just six in the season opener. He matched up against All-Pro receiver Julio Jones on a number of snaps and held his own, breaking up a pass intended for Jones in one-on-one coverage in the end zone and another on a short crossing route early in the third quarter.

King could get a heavy dose of Bengals’ Pro Bowl receiver A.J. Green on Sunday at Lambeau Field.

McCarthy and defensive coordinator Dom Capers believe he’s ready for more snaps.

“He’s in a position where he’s done a number of good things with his opportunities, so if anything, he’s earned the right to potentially play more,” McCarthy said. “Smooth, confident athlete. He’s getting healthy. And he looks comfortable out there. So I like the progression Kevin is making.”

It's early, but I like the potential returns on King. It's hard to get difference makers picking at the end of the round. Think about all the Top 10 picks Atlanta is using to become the best offense in the NFL.

[Smidgeon]

Being on the road was the worst situation for that O line. Unsure how loud it was, but some stadiums could make that intolerable.

If you mess with Rodgers protection, he gets antsy and sometimes looks like 2008 Rodgers. That leads to some inaccuracy and then drops. tex has one thing I agree with, Rodgers can make leaky protection look good. But he needs it to be predictable and not constant. It started out OK (they had a decent number of yards early) but got worse until the Atl D wore itself out.

I am not a fan of the offensive progression being Nelson for a while, then Cobb then when there is no other choice, Adams. Adams is the only dynamic one out there. Feed him.

Bennett and Rodgers are just not on the same page yet. It sorted itself out with Cook, it will with Bennett.

On defense, the DBs all look like they have never seen a crossing route. There is never anyone on the opposite side of the field to tattoo someone. Which tells me they are pressuring, but the pressure isn't getting home often enough.

House looked old at times and then got hurt. Randall is a willing tackler, but if you put a move on him, he reacts as though someone set off a firework. I don't see him surviving in the slot. Can you imagine the knot Edelman or Welker would put him in?

I would start Jones and King and live with it until they get better. Both are able tacklers in run support. Let's keep the number of problems to a minimum for now.

Care to expand this thought a bit?

[Harlan Huckleby]

1. Jones
2. Nelson (healthy version)
3. Adams
4. Cobb
5. Sanu

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/baranczyk/2017/09/18/analysis-packers-falling-short-falcons-skill-positions/678417001/

But the greater advantage is at the skill positions on offense. In Julio Jones, the Falcons have the best receiver in the game. Their No. 2, Mohamed Sanu, might be as good as any of the Packers’ receivers.
Eric Baranczyk saw it like me. I don't study the NFL, but my eyeballs yesterday said the Atlanta receivers are quick, good route runners.

[QBME]

Lane Taylor has been as good as Sitton, even though he was a journeyman who came out of nowhere and is nothing special for talent or athleticism.

Lane Taylor is not a journeyman who came out of nowhere. He was drafted by the Packers in 2013 and has developed nicely the past 3 seasons. Just sayin'.

[wootah]

Lane Taylor is not a journeyman who came out of nowhere. He was drafted by the Packers in 2013 and has developed nicely the past 3 seasons. Just sayin'.

Maybe Tex thought about the classical definition of journeyman; "a skilled worker who has successfully completed an official apprenticeship qualification in a building trade or craft".

[pbmax]

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/baranczyk/2017/09/18/analysis-packers-falling-short-falcons-skill-positions/678417001/

Eric Baranczyk saw it like me. I don't study the NFL, but my eyeballs yesterday said the Atlanta receivers are quick, good route runners.

He's big and he is a good route runner with decent hands.

His average value for 6 years in the League is 26. Cobb had 38 in four years and stands at 52 for six. Davante Adams is 19 after 3.

As red would say, the Packers are allergic to covering inside routes unless its Burnett or Hyde.

[pbmax]

Care to expand this thought a bit?

It might only be my imagination, but it seems like there is a WR pecking order this year that hurts Adams and is hurting the offense. There are always proven players, favorites and less established players, but this year, Adams seems to have gone to the back of the line again.

Adams has had some long droughts without targets. And we have seen a focus on Nelson, Cobb and Bennett. Heck, compared to snaps, Allison gets more targets each time he steps out onto the field. There might be something going on, but Adams has proven he can carry the load and make big plays.

Cobb has been effective, but except for one TD on the free play, Nelson and Bennett have had more limited success.

This is a roundabout way of saying throw more often to Adams. Of course, its only been 2 games.

[Harlan Huckleby]

His average value for 6 years in the League is 26.

Please don't tell me this "average value" is some fantasy football thing. Say it ain't so.

I find opinions of what is seen on the field more interesting. Not that all opinions are equally well based. Things change year-to-year, and an observer can account for whether a player's productivity is due to his individual skill or team factors.

[Harlan Huckleby]

dp

[mraynrand]

Please don't tell me this "average value" is some fantasy football thing. Say it ain't so.

I find opinions of what is seen on the field more interesting. Not that all opinions are equally well based. Things change year-to-year, and an observer can account for whether a player's productivity is due to his individual skill or team factors.

I think most people saw what Packer coaches saw: that their starting dbs were not up to the task. That's why they pulled Rollins and Randall for King. Given the fact that R&R were so bad they had to be pulled, and House was slow, it seems fruitless to make WR comparisons based on this game alone.

You don't need fantasy scores to know that R&R have been questionable going back. Last year they had injuries as excuse, this year....?

[Smidgeon]

I think most people saw what Packer coaches saw: that their starting dbs were not up to the task. That's why they pulled Rollins and Randall for King. Given the fact that R&R were so bad they had to be pulled, and House was slow, it seems fruitless to make WR comparisons based on this game alone.

You don't need fantasy scores to know that R&R have been questionable going back. Last year they had injuries as excuse, this year....?

This year mental errors and technique issues. Totally things R&R should have down by now.

But I'm not going to run them off yet. Neither is Grabby McSmurf bad, so give them another year of development (safety to corner and basketball to football).

[Harlan Huckleby]

I need to find a new football guru. I will follow Woody for a while, see how that goes.

[mraynrand]

I need to find a new football guru. I will follow Woody for a while, see how that goes.

It's like you're tempting me to take a shot at him. Or you. Or both.

[bobblehead]

I have been supportive of Dom Capers over the years, but I wonder if we have any chance of ever beating the Falcons with him as the defensive coordinator.

The Bears only lost by 6 points to the Falcons. We haven't even shown a glimmer of hope in the last 3 games with the Falcons.

Of course, the offense hasn't looked much better either. They have now managed just 7 points in the first halves of the last two games.

For a fair argument, assess our D against chicago's in that debate. Eliminate defensive scores. Look at the whole picture. If we get 2 calls to be no calls and Rodgers doesn't do a 360 Favresque Pick you are thinking we lost a real tough tight game.

[bobblehead]

Maybe somebody more expert than me can do this. If you combined Green Bay and Atlanta's WRs, what would be pecking order for top five?

Julio Jones, Jordy Nelson....everyone else. But Julio is near god like....and he is playing against our cbs

[hoosier]

I need to find a new football guru. I will follow Woody for a while, see how that goes.

Can I suggest Rutnstrut instead? His posting volume is smaller and will leave you more time to ruminate.

[hoosier]

Please don't tell me this "average value" is some fantasy football thing. Say it ain't so.

I find opinions of what is seen on the field more interesting. Not that all opinions are equally well based. Things change year-to-year, and an observer can account for whether a player's productivity is due to his individual skill or team factors.

Come on you sleepy mutt, time to emerge from your kennel and enter into the 21st century. Value is DVOA, a football outsiders advanced stat (Defense-adjusted Value over average?), the football equivalent of baseball's WAR.

[mraynrand]

Come on you sleepy mutt, time to emerge from your kennel and enter into the 21st century. Value is DVOA, a football outsiders advanced stat (Defense-adjusted Value over average?), the football equivalent of baseball's WAR.

WAR, what is it good for? Absolutely nothing!

[hoosier]

Say it again?

[pbmax]

Please don't tell me this "average value" is some fantasy football thing. Say it ain't so.

I find opinions of what is seen on the field more interesting. Not that all opinions are equally well based. Things change year-to-year, and an observer can account for whether a player's productivity is due to his individual skill or team factors.

I agree Baranczyk makes it a point worth debating. Sanu had a good game. But in part that is by design as the Packers would rather Sanu catch all the balls rather than Jones.

Average value is a very rough measure of player success. Its partially dependent on stats specific to a position, but also takes into account things like postseason recognition. Its not the end all of the argument. But Sanu has been underused compared to the other two. If he is a talent on par with them, his teams haven't figured it out yet.

[pbmax]

Come on you sleepy mutt, time to emerge from your kennel and enter into the 21st century. Value is DVOA, a football outsiders advanced stat (Defense-adjusted Value over average?), the football equivalent of baseball's WAR.

I could look those up too, but average value here is from Pro-Football-Reference.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Come on you sleepy mutt, time to emerge from your kennel and enter into the 21st century. Value is DVOA, a football outsiders advanced stat (Defense-adjusted Value over average?), the football equivalent of baseball's WAR.

Ah, when an entertainment comes down to stats and computer models, it alienates more people than it attracts. It becomes information gathering.

I tried a fantasy league with a sport I follow closely (college wrestling.) I like to win. It distracts from appreciation of the sport, you worry too much about your allegiance to your fantasy team.

[mraynrand]

It's like the Analog Kid versus the Digital Man in here.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Can I suggest Rutnstrut instead? His posting volume is smaller and will leave you more time to ruminate.

He's to the point, alright. But kinda strikes me as rough trade.

[Harlan Huckleby]

For the farm boys:

rough trade: violent, often brutal sex acts, or a person, usually a male prostitute, who looks like they participate in such acts.

[Rutnstrut]

For the farm boys:

rough trade: violent, often brutal sex acts, or a person, usually a male prostitute, who looks like they participate in such acts.

Dude, I'm a 45 year old father of 3 that looks like a lumberjack. I'd be the worst male prostitute ever.

[pbmax]

Hold on. Doesn't rough trade mean the (mostly) straight johns that male prostitutes service in certain areas? (Sailors and the lot)

Of course, my exposure to this term is incidental, and involves G. Gordon Liddy in a non-Watergate role.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Hold on. Doesn't rough trade mean the (mostly) straight johns that male prostitutes service in certain areas? (Sailors and the lot)

Here's a magazine related to the genre:
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/i/321740500290-0-1/s-l1000.jpg

I do think from Rutnstrut's description above he would fit right in. Flannel shirt, hairy chest.....

I think "rough trade" is like "bear", but with a bit of danger/violence to it.

I had some gay friends who called me "rough trade", I somehow knew what they were joking about. Actually, I'm not very tough and would be more of a bear.

[pbmax]

I can't believe G. Gordon would be misleading.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I can't believe G. Gordon would be misleading.

The guy in the bar just told you he was G. Gordon Libby

[mraynrand]

And then the thread really went off the rails...

[Joemailman]

And then the thread really went off the rails...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT1JeweUAAAX3Wq.jpg

THE END

[bobblehead]

And then the thread really went off the rails...

I picked it up here and had to back track....wish I hadn't.

[Fritz]

Trying to lift train back onto track, I say the early-third year returns on the draft that produced Randall and Rollins in rounds one and two are not good.

Ted appears to have shat the bed.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Dude, I'm a 45 year old father of 3 that looks like a lumberjack. I'd be the worst male prostitute ever.

Your kids look like lumberjacks? Have them lay off the fizzy milk.

[Fritz]

Dude, I'm a 45 year old father of 3 that looks like a lumberjack. I'd be the worst male prostitute ever.


A 45 year old father of three who likes to pretend he's a lumberjack? Sounds like exactly the kind of guy who might be looking for a male prostitute...

[Joemailman]

Trying to lift train back onto track, I say the early-third year returns on the draft that produced Randall and Rollins in rounds one and two are not good.

Ted appears to have shat the bed.

Gambled and lost here. Drafted a safety who he thought could be converted to corner, and drafted a corner who had played 1 year of college football. Probably tried to rely on Joe Whitt's ability too much.

[Harlan Huckleby]

A 45 year old father of three who likes to pretend he's a lumberjack? Sounds like exactly the kind of guy who might be looking for a male prostitute...
Rutnstrut doesn't have to look for nothing, he's the party. The flannel shirt, axe wielding, angry posts - he's a rough trade cliche.

[hoosier]

Gambled and lost here. Drafted a safety who he thought could be converted to corner, and drafted a corner who had played 1 year of college football. Probably tried to rely on Joe Whitt's ability too much.

I dunno. Randall looked pretty good his first year. Then he got hurt and hasn't been the same since. Maybe he has an egg shell for an ego. Or maybe Whitt's powers of motivation are in decline.

[Rutnstrut]

I dunno. Randall looked pretty good his first year. Then he got hurt and hasn't been the same since. Maybe he has an egg shell for an ego. Or maybe Whitt's powers of motivation are in decline.

Or maybe his first year was a fluke?

[Smidgeon]

I dunno. Randall looked pretty good his first year. Then he got hurt and hasn't been the same since. Maybe he has an egg shell for an ego. Or maybe Whitt's powers of motivation are in decline.

They both flashed pretty well their rookie year. Enough the Packers (and everyone else) let Hayward go. With Shields, Randall, and Rollins, the CBs looked set for another five years. Then concussion and injury/regression.

[mraynrand]

Or maybe his first year was a fluke?

a parasite might explain his poor play...

[Fritz]

They both flashed pretty well their rookie year. Enough the Packers (and everyone else) let Hayward go. With Shields, Randall, and Rollins, the CBs looked set for another five years. Then concussion and injury/regression.

It really is a bit confusing. Randall, at least, looked like he was going to be a real player. Now he's a dollar short and a day late.

[pbmax]

Or maybe his first year was a fluke?

It could be, but I'd bet that he simply has failed to develop other skills, and more time starting has exposed the holes in his game.

Or, there are times in that secondary where the receiver turns to run an interior route and the CB reacts as though he's been shot at and backs off. The middle of the field coverage scheme (when to follow, when to pass off or drift off or deep) still evades them I think. I might be overreacting to replays showing it at least twice this season but its just weird. Pump fakes maybe?

[mraynrand]

Or, there are times in that secondary where the receiver turns to run an interior route and the CB reacts as though he's been shot at and backs off. The middle of the field coverage scheme (when to follow, when to pass off or drift off or deep) still evades them I think. I might be overreacting to replays showing it at least twice this season but its just weird. Pump fakes maybe?

This is a pretty good description. It's very odd. Randall has tight coverage and then all the sudden he gets totally lost on a simple inside cut. Gabe Kaplan had better coverage of Richard Hatch on Battle of the Network Stars.

[pbmax]

^ Nice trash TV reference.

I think its mostly technique and goes mainly to the lack of familiarity of the DBs with zone coverage techniques.

The most baffling coverage of all is the trailing by too far coverage on a crossing route (this is man to man) and the failure to have anyone on the other side of the field to clock the crossing route. This might be skill of receiver avoid the other defenders, but I also think its the effect of threatening to send six pass rushers most downs.

[Fritz]

So...(cue Bretsky)...if the Packers had drafted TJ Watt the pass coverage would be better?

[pbmax]

So...(cue Bretsky)...if the Packers had drafted TJ Watt the pass coverage would be better?

It might, but he has to be healthy for that to work.

He looks legit and pass rush always helps, but I am still kinda stunned how Fackrell looks in games versus the preseason. I think he might figure it out. Its weird to see a two gapping OLB on a pass rush.

[mraynrand]

Its weird to see a two gapping OLB on a pass rush.

did you mean to be funny, because I LOLed.

[pbmax]

did you mean to be funny, because I LOLed.

I find his approach funny, but the rest was coincidence.