Put up or Shut up

[bobblehead]

I have defended TT and M3 often against the charge that they are lucky morons who landed Arod.

The truth is that now we get an answer. This isn't like last time where our backup plans fell apart in preseason and then our emergency plan fell apart in Seneca Wallace. Our backup has 3 camps in the system and is the guy they have groomed for this moment. They don't need to win out or even make the playoffs necessarily, but I think that going .500 the rest of the way is a reasonable expectation. The schedule from here is not that tough. If the organization is in good hands they win half the games from here. If not, maybe it is time to get Rodgers the coach and GM he deserves.

[mraynrand]

I provisionally agree with you. APHR. ha ha

[Cheesehead Craig]

Absolutely agree.

[wist43]

I have defended TT and M3 often against the charge that they are lucky morons who landed Arod.

The truth is that now we get an answer. This isn't like last time where our backup plans fell apart in preseason and then our emergency plan fell apart in Seneca Wallace. Our backup has 3 camps in the system and is the guy they have groomed for this moment. They don't need to win out or even make the playoffs necessarily, but I think that going .500 the rest of the way is a reasonable expectation. The schedule from here is not that tough. If the organization is in good hands they win half the games from here. If not, maybe it is time to get Rodgers the coach and GM he deserves.

This is why playing great defense should always be at the forefront... a constant.

Landing a franchise QB?? If you have the other pieces in place, then you're looking at championships.

Denver recently won a SB with a substandard Peyton Manning... they did it with defense. Seattle won their SB by riding their defense. Baltimore, Tampa, et al... None of those teams had a franchise QB.

We've had a franchise QB for the past 25 years - and we have 2 SB's to show for it. That's unacceptable in my view.

Unfortunately, the Packers have always been poor evaluators on the defensive side of the ball. Combine that with an over-the-hill fuddle-muddled dunderdummy like dunderdummy... and you have a decade of terrible results. Thank the football gods that the defense was able to hold it together for one season under dunderdummy, and we were able to steal a championship - but, for the most part, our organization is fundamentally flawed and there's no fixing it.

[QBME]

I have defended TT and M3 often against the charge that they are lucky morons who landed Arod.

The truth is that now we get an answer. This isn't like last time where our backup plans fell apart in preseason and then our emergency plan fell apart in Seneca Wallace. Our backup has 3 camps in the system and is the guy they have groomed for this moment. They don't need to win out or even make the playoffs necessarily, but I think that going .500 the rest of the way is a reasonable expectation. The schedule from here is not that tough. If the organization is in good hands they win half the games from here. If not, maybe it is time to get Rodgers the coach and GM he deserves.

Agree. Also, BH is in his contract year. Put up or shut up indeed.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I expect we'll see good things from Hundley, he has the talent.

[mraynrand]

Having great franchise QBs results in consistent high level of performance. Given that, it's difficult to accumulate top tier surrounding talent. Really only Belicheat has been able to keep the high level of performance and playoff success. Denver may be entering a similar stretch with the fine work of Elway (I barfed a bit after writing that), but Baltimore, Tampa, Seattle, Denver etc. etc. have all experienced dips low enough to garner top picks. Even the 49ers had to purchase their final championship with Steve Young before dropping into the abyss after 14 years of success. The difference is that the Packers squandered at least two legit chances at championships in '97 and '14. It happens. Marino and the Dolphins squandered them all then dropped into the abyss. Packers are, in part, victims of their own great consistent success.

[yetisnowman]

Hundley could play pretty well, and we will still lose a lot of games. The talent around him is not adequate, especially with all the injuries.

[pittstang5]

Hundley is the least of my worries. He knows the system. MM will game plan to his strengths. I think he would be fine and could win some games. He's not ARod, no one is. But, it's the lack of running game, a MASH unit of an O-line and the lack of a decent defense that hinder this team. With nothing to help him, he'll struggle.

[beveaux1]

Hundley is the least of my worries. He knows the system. MM will game plan to his strengths. I think he would be fine and could win some games. He's not ARod, no one is. But, it's the lack of running game, a MASH unit of an O-line and the lack of a decent defense that hinder this team. With nothing to help him, he'll struggle.

I think he'll play OK. I think the team results will not be very good. My guess is that we'll be 0-2 in the next 3 weeks. Saints have a good team as do the Lions and we're a MASH unit.

[Rutnstrut]

The knock on Hundley in the draft was that he misses reads and takes sacks. Well that seems pretty damn accurate as it's what he still does. If this team finishes at 8-8 I will be shocked. I have said before that TT and stubby are mediocre and get bailed out by AR.

[pbmax]

Hundley will be fine.

The rest of the team though, might get him killed or behind by 30 in the second half.

[wist43]

We'll be drafting in the top half of the draft... maybe this will be enough to expose the deficiencies on defense and we can get rid of Capers finally.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.nfl.com/player/bretthundley/2552588/careerstats

Brett Hundley #7 QB...Green Bay Packers | Official Team Site ...Height: 6-3 Weight: 226 Age: 24
Born: 6/15/1993 Phoenix , AZ ... College: UCLA ...Experience: 3rd season

NFL 2017-18 .... TDS 1 ... INT 3 ...YDS 157 ... QBR 40.9

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61qzgxode9L._SL1100_.jpg

[woodbuck27]

This Season is very likely 'a Write Off '.

The excuses are already written.

TT and MM will be back doing the same Ole same Ole again next Season.

[Bossman641]

Lol we're down the top 5 tackles and a starting guard.. and that'd without even addressing the defense. There's not a team in the league that could overcome all that.

[Rutnstrut]

Lol we're down the top 5 tackles and a starting guard.. and that'd without even addressing the defense. There's not a team in the league that could overcome all that.

It wouldn't matter. The line is terrible even when it's the starters. But keep making excuses for TT and stubby.

[Smidgeon]

Hundley will be fine.

The rest of the team though, might get him killed or behind by 30 in the second half.

When he had time to throw the ball (being protected on the outsides by the fifth guard and the 7th guard--or 6th tackle depending on how you look at it (http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?29983-When-Mason-Crosby-or-anyone-makes-an-excuse-and-any-miss-!-Remember-this-guy&p=945059&viewfull=1#post945059)), he did throw a very pretty ball. He had a couple spots where he missed the underneath guy or didn't lead his receiver too much, but we're spoiled by Rodgers there anyway.

Time to see how good the WRs really are.

[Bossman641]

It wouldn't matter. The line is terrible even when it's the starters. But keep making excuses for TT and stubby.

News flash... it hasn't been the starters. I think you can get by without a stud ol but you need repetition. We've had a different starting 5 every game and have had linemen go down during the games as well. Tough to get any kind of consistency with all that going on.

[call_me_ishmael]

Saints - L 38-16

Not a ton of time to prepare, Saints had offensive burst against DET so expect more of the same.

Lions - L 35-17

MM is legit off the bye but DET too good. Stafford is much better than what's-his-face.

@Bears - L 24-21

John Fox is a great coach coaching for his job, he'll have his team ready to go here.

Ravens - W 21-17

John Harbaugh is the second best coach in the NFL but they just don't have it movin' right now. Is Flocco back yet?

@Steelers - L 35-13

Heinz field will be rockin'. Tough place, tough team.

Buccaneers - Coin flip

Could go either way. Bucs have some young talent and seem poised to get it going soonish.

@Browns - W 24-7

LOL. Da Browns got nothing but Joe Thomas.

@Panthers - L 38-16 If Kuchley is playing

Panthers are a different team with LK. If he's playing, they are a super bowl contender in NFC. If not, well, we all saw 2016.

Vikings - L 27-16

Vikes are the best team in the NFCN but Detroit has the better QB. Expect Vikes to win this game and drop close division to DET.

@Lions - L 35-16 Happy New Year

Stafford clinches the division and is the most beloved player in the league.

I've got 'em winning at most 3 more games. This is just spit balling off the top of my head. I'm wrong a lot so I'll probably be wrong here too.

[Pugger]

It wouldn't matter. The line is terrible even when it's the starters. But keep making excuses for TT and stubby.

Bull. When healthy we have one of the top tackle tandems in the league. Last year our line was ranked in the top 10. Lane Taylor is a find guard and surprised me at tackle when Bahk went down (he ain't Lang but he ain't terrible either). Evans isn't what he once was but is is serviceable. I don't have a problem with the offense. The defense is another issue entirely...

[bobblehead]

Hundley could play pretty well, and we will still lose a lot of games. The talent around him is not adequate, especially with all the injuries.

We will certainly find out if that is true. Another possibility is that Hundley does NOT play well and that is on TT and MM as well. They have had 3 camps to decide he is capable as a backup. If he is not, its their fault for not recognizing that and bringing in a veteran.

[bobblehead]

Lol we're down the top 5 tackles and a starting guard.. and that'd without even addressing the defense. There's not a team in the league that could overcome all that.

I agree the offense has excuses, but the defense does not. We have a ton of high picks on that side of the ball and we are relatively healthy. If they don't perform during this stretch then TT or Dom have to go.

[bobblehead]

It wouldn't matter. The line is terrible even when it's the starters. But keep making excuses for TT and stubby.

Your problem is that ridiculous statements like this make you unbelievable on the rare occasion you make a good point. Really...starting your 7th best OL at LT and your 8th at LG doesn't matter?

Last year behind the healthy OL they were 20th in the league in rushing yards, but 8th in Y/A. When you have Rodgers at QB that is very acceptable. When your RB is a converted WR due to injuries its laudable.

Ur that guy that compares the packers to the team in the league that is #1 at each different thing and bitches that they aren't as good as that team. It reflects poorly.

[pbmax]

When he had time to throw the ball (being protected on the outsides by the fifth guard and the 7th guard--or 6th tackle depending on how you look at it (http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?29983-When-Mason-Crosby-or-anyone-makes-an-excuse-and-any-miss-!-Remember-this-guy&p=945059&viewfull=1#post945059)), he did throw a very pretty ball. He had a couple spots where he missed the underneath guy or didn't lead his receiver too much, but we're spoiled by Rodgers there anyway.

Time to see how good the WRs really are.

The touch passes needed a little work. None of the screens were open. DL read them every time.

[pbmax]

I agree the offense has excuses, but the defense does not. We have a ton of high picks on that side of the ball and we are relatively healthy. If they don't perform during this stretch then TT or Dom have to go.

No excuses, but they were missing their top two corners and safety.

And then there were more injuries. Safety is deep enough to cover it. Not sure CB is.

[bobblehead]

No excuses, but they were missing their top two corners and safety.

And then there were more injuries. Safety is deep enough to cover it. Not sure CB is.

I still put that on TT and Dom though. Their next corners are the former 1 and 2 picks. There is a lot invested at CB for it to suck completely.

[smuggler]

It wouldn't matter. The line is terrible even when it's the starters. But keep making excuses for TT and stubby.

Put up good posts or shut up, please!

[bobblehead]

Put up good posts or shut up, please!

repped...just for bagging on rut in a creative way using the threads theme.

[pbmax]

I still put that on TT and Dom though. Their next corners are the former 1 and 2 picks. There is a lot invested at CB for it to suck completely.

I agree to a point, but even the #2 pick was injured coming into game.

However, they haven't progressed enough.

I am not in the ban Dom camp, but would you agree he isn't as good identifying young talent as the O coaches are?

McCarthy has missed, but he recognized Lang, Allison, Adams and others early. The entire Defense needs a second year jump like Clark and Lowry have taken.

[Smidgeon]

I agree to a point, but even the #2 pick was injured coming into game.

However, they haven't progressed enough.

I am not in the ban Dom camp, but would you agree he isn't as good identifying young talent as the O coaches are?

McCarthy has missed, but he recognized Lang, Allison, Adams and others early. The entire Defense needs a second year jump like Clark and Lowry have taken.

...and Martinez

[MadScientist]

Saints - L 38-16

Not a ton of time to prepare, Saints had offensive burst against DET so expect more of the same.

Lions - L 35-17

MM is legit off the bye but DET too good. Stafford is much better than what's-his-face.

@Bears - L 24-21

John Fox is a great coach coaching for his job, he'll have his team ready to go here.

Ravens - W 21-17

John Harbaugh is the second best coach in the NFL but they just don't have it movin' right now. Is Flocco back yet?

@Steelers - L 35-13

Heinz field will be rockin'. Tough place, tough team.

Buccaneers - Coin flip

Could go either way. Bucs have some young talent and seem poised to get it going soonish.

@Browns - W 24-7

LOL. Da Browns got nothing but Joe Thomas.

@Panthers - L 38-16 If Kuchley is playing

Panthers are a different team with LK. If he's playing, they are a super bowl contender in NFC. If not, well, we all saw 2016.

Vikings - L 27-16

Vikes are the best team in the NFCN but Detroit has the better QB. Expect Vikes to win this game and drop close division to DET.

@Lions - L 35-16 Happy New Year

Stafford clinches the division and is the most beloved player in the league.

I've got 'em winning at most 3 more games. This is just spit balling off the top of my head. I'm wrong a lot so I'll probably be wrong here too.
Shit, with Rodgers, the Packers would likely be favored in all of those games, and would have a good chance at getting a bye.

As far as judging MM during this stretch, a lot will depend on what Hundley shows. Does he protect the ball better? A 1:3 TD to Int ration will not cut it, even if the Packers had Seattle's defense. How often is Hundley on the wrong page with the receivers? Hundley has had 3 years prepping, so he should have a good idea as to what to key off of in opposing defenses, and what to expect that the receivers will do. Can Hundley recognize blitzes and throw the hot read accurately? He didn't do so well with it last week, will that improve this week. Hundley won't be at fault if the patch work OL doesn't give him any time, but MM better have plans to deal with it (quick hits, roll outs, counter-piches, screens, draws, and anything else to slow the rush down).

SI has a bit about this as well:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/17/aaron-rodgers-injury-broken-collarbone-brett-hundley-starter-mike-mccarthy-green-bay-packers-offense

[esoxx]

Shit, with Rodgers, the Packers would likely be favored in all of those games, and would have a good chance at getting a bye.

As far as judging MM during this stretch, a lot will depend on what Hundley shows. Does he protect the ball better? A 1:3 TD to Int ration will not cut it, even if the Packers had Seattle's defense. How often is Hundley on the wrong page with the receivers? Hundley has had 3 years prepping, so he should have a good idea as to what to key off of in opposing defenses, and what to expect that the receivers will do. Can Hundley recognize blitzes and throw the hot read accurately? He didn't do so well with it last week, will that improve this week. Hundley won't be at fault if the patch work OL doesn't give him any time, but MM better have plans to deal with it (quick hits, roll outs, counter-piches, screens, draws, and anything else to slow the rush down).

SI has a bit about this as well:
https://www.si.com/nfl/2017/10/17/aaron-rodgers-injury-broken-collarbone-brett-hundley-starter-mike-mccarthy-green-bay-packers-offense

According to Vegas Stats show I was listening to yesterday, GB would have been favored by 6 to 6.5pts with Rodgers in lineup against Saints. They're now 4 to 6.5pt underdogs. No other player has this type of impact to a betting line, not even Brady.

[hoosier]

That line has to be based on the huge falloff that was 2013. There is no guarantee that 2017 will be that bad. (Of course that doesn't necessarily mean it will be better, it could be even worse....) For me, a fan who remembers the great disappointment that was 2013 (remember McGinn's preeseason article about how the Packers were finally built to weather a storm?) it is hard to shake the feeling of impending doom that has settled over this team. If there is indeed a collapse then 2017 will have been a strong indictment of TT's drafting prowess. But I am holding out hope that they will be able to compete with an effective backup QB.

[Tony Oday]

If you go 6-4 the rest of the way TT turned a 5th round pick into a 1st and a 3rd.

[woodbuck27]

Saints - L 38-16

Not a ton of time to prepare, Saints had offensive burst against DET so expect more of the same.

Lions - L 35-17

MM is legit off the bye but DET too good. Stafford is much better than what's-his-face.

@Bears - L 24-21

John Fox is a great coach coaching for his job, he'll have his team ready to go here.

Ravens - W 21-17

John Harbaugh is the second best coach in the NFL but they just don't have it movin' right now. Is Flocco back yet?

@Steelers - L 35-13

Heinz field will be rockin'. Tough place, tough team.

Buccaneers - Coin flip

Could go either way. Bucs have some young talent and seem poised to get it going soonish.

@Browns - W 24-7

LOL. Da Browns got nothing but Joe Thomas.

@Panthers - L 38-16 If Kuchley is playing

Panthers are a different team with LK. If he's playing, they are a super bowl contender in NFC. If not, well, we all saw 2016.

Vikings - L 27-16

Vikes are the best team in the NFCN but Detroit has the better QB. Expect Vikes to win this game and drop close division to DET.

@Lions - L 35-16 Happy New Year

Stafford clinches the division and is the most beloved player in the league.

I've got 'em winning at most 3 more games. This is just spit balling off the top of my head. I'm wrong a lot so I'll probably be wrong here too.

You have it at Season's end: 6-9 and a Coin Toss for another 'W'

If your correct it's going to be really ugly.

I think it will be interesting as it now stands and which Rival the Vikings or the Lions win the NFCN and that means the Packers are actually in Free Fall.

What if...... Packer Nation prayers are answered and Brett Hundley plays well and the Packers somehow muster a RALLY and successful effort !? I have some hope.

The way this Season is going just what isn't possible. It's not in my experience ever been much wilder. I can write this with assurance of being correct. The NFL and predicting anything is very difficult and being successful. This Season anything might happen.

Looking at the NFL Power Rankings:

https://www.sbnation.com/2017/10/17/16487300/2017-nfl-power-rankings-curated-week-7

Could anyone imagine a Super Bowl Game and Kansas City Vs Philadelphia?

In the posted NFL Power Rankings ( released today Tues. 17 Oct. 2017) the Minnesota Vikings are on top of the Green Bay Packers and The Detroit Lions across the board ...NFL.Com, ESPN, CBS and Yahoo all see the Vikings on top of it's NFCN Rivals . The Vikings avg. Ranking is about 8th....The Packers and Lions about 12th.

The Chicago Bears avg. about in the 25th slot.

I'll be watching this separation as the Season progresses to it's conclusion.

So right now and in summary the Vikings have a hold on the higher slot than the Packers and Lions 8th to 12th. The Bears are slotted 25th.

[pbmax]

...and Martinez

Good point. Also I meant Lane Taylor, not Lang, though M3 seemed to like Lang a lot, even at Tackle.

[Patler]

If the starting O-line is missing all four tackles who were on the 53 man roster that started the season, and the next best alternative after those four, the offense will be severely compromised, especially if the starting LG is the #4 guard.

If the starting corners plus another from the original 53 are on the sidelines, the defense will suffer.

If the most versatile DB around whom the defense was conceived is not playing, much is lost.

When two or three of the above are combined in a single game, winning would be difficult even with Rodgers.

[Smidgeon]

If the starting O-line is missing all four tackles who were on the 53 man roster that started the season, and the next best alternative after those four, the offense will be severely compromised, especially if the starting LG is the #4 guard.

If the starting corners plus another from the original 53 are on the sidelines, the defense will suffer.

If the most versatile DB around whom the defense was conceived is not playing, much is lost.

When two or three of the above are combined in a single game, winning would be difficult even with Rodgers.

Shhh. Don't spoil the narrative that this is M3's only chance to prove he's capable without Rodgers and mitigating circumstances be damned.

[bobblehead]

I agree to a point, but even the #2 pick was injured coming into game.

However, they haven't progressed enough.

I am not in the ban Dom camp, but would you agree he isn't as good identifying young talent as the O coaches are?
.

Its hard for me to decide between GM and coach. Coaching matters and the position a young man is drafted into matters a lot. If you were the #1 pick QB would you want to be drafted into a team coached by Rex Ryan?

Likewise, if you are a stud pass rushing LB would you want to be drafted into a 4-3?

A stud WR drafted by the Vikings, or any team with turmoil at QB?

[bobblehead]

Right now I tend to put the CB mess a bit more on TT. He drafted two athletes instead of football players. It works with UDFA who you have time to develop. 1st and 2nd rounders shouldn't need to undergo that much of a learning curve.

[Rutnstrut]

Bull. When healthy we have one of the top tackle tandems in the league. Last year our line was ranked in the top 10. Lane Taylor is a find guard and surprised me at tackle when Bahk went down (he ain't Lang but he ain't terrible either). Evans isn't what he once was but is is serviceable. I don't have a problem with the offense. The defense is another issue entirely...

I don't think they were top 10 last year in actual football production. Rodgers was hit and sacked more than a lot of other QB's and that was with Sitton yet. TT has screwed with the continuity of the line every few years and it shows. But yeah he's great.

[mraynrand]

I don't think they were top 10 last year in actual football production. Rodgers was hit and sacked more than a lot of other QB's and that was with Sitton yet. TT has screwed with the continuity of the line every few years and it shows. But yeah he's great.

I think last year they were tops. The year before they were just OK. Sitton was beat up.

Look around the league. It's not that common for a line to stay the same year over year. Even Dallas' vaunted line had I think two positions change from last year to this year.

[Bossman641]

I don't think they were top 10 last year in actual football production. Rodgers was hit and sacked more than a lot of other QB's and that was with Sitton yet. TT has screwed with the continuity of the line every few years and it shows. But yeah he's great.

Sitton wasn't around last year. He was cut at the last minute and taylor replaced him.

[Rutnstrut]

Sitton wasn't around last year. He was cut at the last minute and taylor replaced him.

Yup, I meant Lang. My point and I've made it before. When you have the crown jewels (Rodgers) you use the best damn safe money can buy to protect them. Plus you make sure there is a decent back up plan should that safe fail. Now granted no one could see the injuries coming. But putting faith in Bulaga and letting Lang walk were mistakes. IMO letting Tretter go was also a mistake. They want to let underperforming overpaid players go, they should have let Clay go.

[mraynrand]

Yup, I meant Lang. My point and I've made it before. When you have the crown jewels (Rodgers) you use the best damn safe money can buy to protect them. Plus you make sure there is a decent back up plan should that safe fail. Now granted no one could see the injuries coming. But putting faith in Bulaga and letting Lang walk were mistakes. IMO letting Tretter go was also a mistake. They want to let underperforming overpaid players go, they should have let Clay go.

Well, they didn't really put faith in Bulaga, they drafted Spriggs and Murphy. You can hold them accountable for that not working out, but not for the injuries.

I would say that Taylor was a fine replacement for Sitton - until the injury - not only was he playing well at guard, but he did a nice job out at tackle when they were down there.

Tretter is up and down for the Browns. They are not all that happy with his strength, even at center.

Lang got tackle money. I just don't think you spend money there with his injury history, but hell, what can I say when everyone is injured? The only guy who isn't is Lang's replacement!

[woodbuck27]

Yup, I meant Lang. My point and I've made it before. When you have the crown jewels (Rodgers) you use the best damn safe money can buy to protect them. Plus you make sure there is a decent back up plan should that safe fail. Now granted no one could see the injuries coming. But putting faith in Bulaga and letting Lang walk were mistakes. IMO letting Tretter go was also a mistake. They want to let underperforming overpaid players go, they should have let Clay go.

T.J. Lang was blocking well yet getting penalized (arguably too much) and not particularly pleased with his start with the Lions and then.... this:

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2017/10/tj_lang_detroit_lions_back_inj.html

[Pugger]

T.J. Lang was blocking well yet getting penalized (arguably too much) and not particularly pleased with his start with the Lions and then.... this:

http://www.mlive.com/lions/index.ssf/2017/10/tj_lang_detroit_lions_back_inj.html

Did this back issue start while he was playing for us? If so I can see why Ted and company declined to match the offer Lang received from Detroit.

[bobblehead]

Shhh. Don't spoil the narrative that this is M3's only chance to prove he's capable without Rodgers and mitigating circumstances be damned.

You can take in all the mitigating factors. I didn't say it was his only chance, I said it was finally a chance to see.

[mraynrand]

I thought Stubby coaching Favre was his chance to prove he was capable without Rodgers.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I suspect Arod's injury will affect our chances to win.

[Smidgeon]

You can take in all the mitigating factors. I didn't say it was his only chance, I said it was finally a chance to see.

I agree with you. I was thinking in general about all the hubbub around the interwebs about this. Most people aren't being even handed.

[MadScientist]

You can take in all the mitigating factors. I didn't say it was his only chance, I said it was finally a chance to see.

No, if Hundley plays really well, they'll just say MM lucked into another great QB. After all Brady was a 5th round pick as well.

[pbmax]

No, if Hundley plays really well, they'll just say MM lucked into another great QB. After all Brady was a 5th round pick as well.

Any idiot could have drafted Hundley in Round 5! He fell into their lap!

[pbmax]

Did this back issue start while he was playing for us? If so I can see why Ted and company declined to match the offer Lang received from Detroit.

Yes it did.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Any idiot could have drafted Hundley in Round 5! He fell into their lap!

Sort of like Arod.

BTW, am I the only one who notes the strong facial resemblance between Rodgers and Alex Smith. Shit, they look like twins to me.

[mraynrand]

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/ekpa4qTlwQ9IjIfk0wEtlsgQkWw=/3x0:3996x2662/1200x800/filters:focal(3x0:3996x2662)/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_image/image/12746235/20130313_pjc_sm8_004.0.jpg
https://pmchollywoodlife.files.wordpress.com/2014/01/aaron-rodgers-bio-photo1.jpg

Do they both have metallic, mint-green Buick Skylarks?

http://robthetrainer.com/uploads/3/4/6/2/3462373/9269607_orig.jpg

[esoxx]

Sort of like Arod.

BTW, am I the only one who notes the strong facial resemblance between Rodgers and Alex Smith. Shit, they look like twins to me.

I've always thought they bear an uncanny resemblance to each other.

[Pugger]

No, if Hundley plays really well, they'll just say MM lucked into another great QB. After all Brady was a 5th round pick as well.

I know what you are trying to say but Brady was taken in the 6th if memory serves.

[bobblehead]

I thought Stubby coaching Favre was his chance to prove he was capable without Rodgers.

Nope. Living off the awesome success that was mike sherman.

[Zool]

I agree with you. I was thinking in general about all the hubbub around the interwebs about this. Most people aren't being even handed.

Well that doesn’t sound like the internet at all.

[woodbuck27]

Originally Posted by Harlan Huckleby View Post
Sort of like Arod.

BTW, am I the only one who notes the strong facial resemblance between Rodgers and Alex Smith. Shit, they look like twins to me.



I've always thought they bear an uncanny resemblance to each other.

I agree that they look much alike.

[woodbuck27]

Quote Originally Posted by MadScientist View Post
No, if Hundley plays really well, they'll just say MM lucked into another great QB. After all Brady was a 5th round pick as well.


I know what you are trying to say but Brady was taken in the 6th if memory serves.

http://www.myk104.com/dede/wp-content/uploads/sites/9/2014/05/man-laughing.jpg

Using Brett Hundley in the same sentence as Tom Brady...the obvious reaction.

[mraynrand]

Using Brett Hundley in the same sentence as Tom Brady...the obvious reaction.[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]

weak

[Teamcheez1]

If Hundley plays as poorly against the Lions then they should put Callahan in for part of the game.

I don't expect him to play any better, but at least it well send the right message.

This also assumes MM can game plan better with two weeks preparation.

[mraynrand]

If Hundley plays as poorly against the Lions then they should put Callahan in for part of the game.

I don't expect him to play any better, but at least it well send the right message.

This also assumes MM can game plan better with two weeks preparation.

well, he was 12-25, meaning there were 13 incompletions. I don't have the full analysis of those, but I'm betting they aren't all on him. It's not a huge repertoire of passes, really, so I'm not sure he was as awful as people are making him out to be. The most worrisome thing is whether the hints from Stubby suggesting he needs the playbook further simplified are a reflection on Hundley's lack of prep and capability, the bad o-line, or both. No way to know that until the next game.

I'm guessing Callahan autoparts won't be much better at this point, but someone had to call for the backup after just one week.

[Teamcheez1]

well, he was 12-25, meaning there were 13 incompletions. I don't have the full analysis of those, but I'm betting they aren't all on him. It's not a huge repertoire of passes, really, so I'm not sure he was as awful as people are making him out to be. The most worrisome thing is whether the hints from Stubby suggesting he needs the playbook further simplified are a reflection on Hundley's lack of prep and capability, the bad o-line, or both. No way to know that until the next game.

I'm guessing Callahan autoparts won't be much better at this point, but someone had to call for the backup after just one week.

I don't really think Callahan is any good. I just need Hundley to play better. Part inexperience, part play calling, part game plan. All or some of those reasons factor in.

Throwing for under 50% and less than 100 yards can be done by any QB off the street.

[mraynrand]

Throwing for under 50% and less than 100 yards can be done by any QB off the street.

You ever watch/read "The Paper Lion?" :)

[denverYooper]

well, he was 12-25, meaning there were 13 incompletions. I don't have the full analysis of those, but I'm betting they aren't all on him. It's not a huge repertoire of passes, really, so I'm not sure he was as awful as people are making him out to be. The most worrisome thing is whether the hints from Stubby suggesting he needs the playbook further simplified are a reflection on Hundley's lack of prep and capability, the bad o-line, or both. No way to know that until the next game.

I'm guessing Callahan autoparts won't be much better at this point, but someone had to call for the backup after just one week.

Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it.

[QBME]

You ever watch/read "The Paper Lion?" :)

Yup. Interesting comparison.

[mraynrand]

Of course, I can get a hell of a good look at a T-Bone steak by sticking my head up a bull's ass, but I'd rather take the butcher's word for it.

I can take a dump in a Packers uniform and call it a quarterback, I've got time. But then all you've got is a uniform-covered piece of crap.


I guess I just don't think that describes Hundley. I could easily be wrong, but I still think there's more there. Hope to see more next week.

[pbmax]

Yoop feisty tonight :D

The part I worry about with Hundley is that he looked like a pocket thrower versus backups and with his WR (the second and third teamers) two years ago. He could move and run*. He could throw a slant or slant and go to Janis. That seemed solid for a spread offense guy who was always in the gun in college doing pre-snap reads.

In his first start, he looked like a guy who wasn't good at post-snap reads with receivers out in a pattern no matter where he took the snap. Even when McCarthy ran a bunch or a (gasp!) crossing route, he didn't find open receivers easily.

So was two years ago a mirage or was he always just shy of skittish and unsure?

I HOPE McCarthy means he's going to take out the ARod part of the offense and simplify the QB reads until his new guy is steady and has learned the nuances of his starting WRs going against starting DBs.

McCarthy said he did not do a good enough job making Hundley comfortable in the pocket so he could make a play. That could mean almost anything, but with Hundley changing formations and the receivers then running identical routes, I think it means less pre snap stuff for the QB to call and more time to read the D.

I hope it works.


*Though I don't remember him looking brilliant on running and throwing, which Rodgers excels at. In the future, we could abbreviate "Not As Well As Rodgers" as NAWAR to save time.

[wist43]

I think Callahan has a shot to be a decent QB. He showed some arm strength and moxie in college. Always thought he had potential.

[denverYooper]

Yoop feisty tonight :D

The part I worry about with Hundley is that he looked like a pocket thrower versus backups and with his WR (the second and third teamers) two years ago. He could move and run*. He could throw a slant or slant and go to Janis. That seemed solid for a spread offense guy who was always in the gun in college doing pre-snap reads.

In his first start, he looked like a guy who wasn't good at post-snap reads with receivers out in a pattern no matter where he took the snap. Even when McCarthy ran a bunch or a (gasp!) crossing route, he didn't find open receivers easily.

So was two years ago a mirage or was he always just shy of skittish and unsure?

I HOPE McCarthy means he's going to take out the ARod part of the offense and simplify the QB reads until his new guy is steady and has learned the nuances of his starting WRs going against starting DBs.

McCarthy said he did not do a good enough job making Hundley comfortable in the pocket so he could make a play. That could mean almost anything, but with Hundley changing formations and the receivers then running identical routes, I think it means less pre snap stuff for the QB to call and more time to read the D.

I hope it works.


*Though I don't remember him looking brilliant on running and throwing, which Rodgers excels at. In the future, we could abbreviate "Not As Well As Rodgers" as NAWAR to save time.

I was just playing off of the Callhan auto parts line :).

In this case, though, M3 is the butcher and I'm taking his word for it that Hundley's the guy until he isn't. I saw some nice throws mixed with some iffy ones. The long sideline throw to Cobb looked bad as a bang-bang play but when they showed the replay it looked like he did give Cobb a chance to get it. He actually seemed to be comfortable going Cobb so I wouldn't be surprised to see more stuff designed with that in mind.

He didn't seem to miss high as much as he did against Minny. And the next time they give him a deep shot, they should send Janis out... just make sure Janis practices his defensive maneuvers as well.

I think you are right about pre-snap responsibilities. I don't know that he was skittish exactly, but after throwing 3 INTs last week he might have made an overly conservative mental adjustment to the speed of a starting defense.

[mraynrand]

That deep shot to Cobb was a decent throw, especially since no one else was open.

Both Janis and Davis should be used as deep threats. Why not 5-10 snaps. But the underthrow on the deep ball to Nelson off the play action makes me a little skeptical about Hundleys arm strength and/or deep accuracy.

[RashanGary]

I always thought Callahan looked better than Hundley.

[Harlan Huckleby]

I always thought Callahan looked better than Hundley.

Well, I didn't always think that. But after one flat performance by the starter, I'm certain the backup is better. (Not JUST mocking you, I actually do suspect Callahan might be a steadier presence. Time to rally the fan club...)

[bobblehead]

I'm going to revisit my theme of put up or shut up. So far there has been ZERO put up from Hundley. I can excuse the coming in cold against minnesota. I can forgive MM for pampering him in N.O. This is the must put up game though. Coming off a bye week against a familiar opponent, MM MUST have Hundley ready. If he turns in a clunker than forget draft and develop. Its time for a new HC, GM and definitely DC. We need to win or be in it with less than 5 minutes to go. Hundley has to look serviceable. If not, heads should roll.

[call_me_ishmael]

The Packers could lose out and there is a 0% chance MM is not the coach next year and TT isn't the GM if he wants to be. Capers... now that's another story and he would almost certainly be let go.

[Pugger]

The Packers could lose out and there is a 0% chance MM is not the coach next year and TT isn't the GM if he wants to be. Capers... now that's another story and he would almost certainly be let go.

We can only hope. Perhaps he'll "retire"?

[bobblehead]

The Packers could lose out and there is a 0% chance MM is not the coach next year and TT isn't the GM if he wants to be. Capers... now that's another story and he would almost certainly be let go.

I don't know. The colts lost Peyton and got the #1 pick and the entire regime was fired.

[woodbuck27]

Did this back issue start while he was playing for us? If so I can see why Ted and company declined to match the offer Lang received from Detroit.

The NFL is 'Business Driven' above all else. The Packer BRASS know certainly that whatever they march out on the field will Sell Out Lambeau Field. As a result of Fan response how much can really be expected to change? NOT TOO MUCH !

Next year we will see TT doing what he tries again to do best and Draft a new Draft Class for the 2018-19 Season. Mike McCarthy will be telling us just how pleased he is with his Roster. Packer Nation will be Packer Nation.

It's as OUR WORLD and The Green Bay Packers Turns. Ohh Dear !

Onto T.J Lang:

T.J. Lang loved being a Green Bay Packer' and TT allowed him to get out there and get a better deal for himself than TT was willing to pay.

Lang hit the GOLD Pot for himself. End of story.

GO PACK GO !

[ThunderDan]

Funny, just had lunch with 1 of the Packers front office staff CPAs, he said there is nothing else the Packers can do with their profits but reinvest in the facilities and the team. The can’t declare a dividend and payout their cash. They don’t have an owner that draws a salary and takes a distribution. So the stupid notion that the Packers don’t care as long as the stadium is full is complete bs.

[ThunderDan]

He also said most of the players were feeling better after the bye week. I made a joke about Spriggs coming back and he said they still haven’t decided on who if anyone would be released to make room for him.

[Pugger]

Funny, just had lunch with 1 of the Packers front office staff CPAs, he said there is nothing else the Packers can do with their profits but reinvest in the facilities and the team. The can’t declare a dividend and payout their cash. They don’t have an owner that draws a salary and takes a distribution. So the stupid notion that the Packers don’t care as long as the stadium is full is complete bs.

Doesn't Mark Murphy draw a salary?

[ThunderDan]

Doesn't Mark Murphy draw a salary?

Yes, all the executives get a salary and the BOD gets paid for being on the board. I am sure he gets paid a lot less than the owner/executives and he doesn't get to take a distribution of the profits.

[ThunderDan]

I was talking to Paul Baniel, VP of Financial & Administration.

Really, nice guy.

I said the one thing I would love as a ticket holder is 4 more inches for my seat. I said I knew they could never do it. Paul said he has tickets at the end of a row and he is lucky to have 1 butt cheek on the bleachers during the cold games.

Then another guy at our table said the Packers should put seats in instead of bleachers. Paul just laughed. He said when the Packers put the south endzone addition on it was briefly looked at. They would have lost more than 10,000 seats.

[QBME]

I was talking to Paul Baniel, VP of Financial & Administration.

Really, nice guy.

I said the one thing I would love as a ticket holder is 4 more inches for my seat. I said I knew they could never do it. Paul said he has tickets at the end of a row and he is lucky to have 1 butt cheek on the bleachers during the cold games.

Then another guy at our table said the Packers should put seats in instead of bleachers. Paul just laughed. He said when the Packers put the south endzone addition on it was briefly looked at. They would have lost more than 10,000 seats.

Wow...thanks for sharing. Nice peek at the inner workings.

[woodbuck27]

I was talking to Paul Baniel, VP of Financial & Administration.

Really, nice guy.

I said the one thing I would love as a ticket holder is 4 more inches for my seat. I said I knew they could never do it. Paul said he has tickets at the end of a row and he is lucky to have 1 butt cheek on the bleachers during the cold games.

Then another guy at our table said the Packers should put seats in instead of bleachers. Paul just laughed. He said when the Packers put the south endzone addition on it was briefly looked at. They would have lost more than 10,000 seats.

Mucho $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ !

[pbmax]

I was talking to Paul Baniel, VP of Financial & Administration.

Really, nice guy.

I said the one thing I would love as a ticket holder is 4 more inches for my seat. I said I knew they could never do it. Paul said he has tickets at the end of a row and he is lucky to have 1 butt cheek on the bleachers during the cold games.

Then another guy at our table said the Packers should put seats in instead of bleachers. Paul just laughed. He said when the Packers put the south endzone addition on it was briefly looked at. They would have lost more than 10,000 seats.

I would volunteer to host another ticket holder on my lap in exchange for a seat.

[mraynrand]

I would volunteer to host another ticket holder on my lap in exchange for a seat.

PBMax imagination:
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b1/b9/77/b1b977970796f2eceaf153df95dfe284--packers-nfl-greenbay-packers.jpg

Reality:
https://fattylane.files.wordpress.com/2011/09/sporting-fan.jpg

[woodbuck27]

I would volunteer to host another ticket holder on my lap in exchange for a seat.

Insist then that he/she doesn't wear any strong cologne.

[bobblehead]

I would say the verdict is in on this dumpster fire. MM was ill prepared with his hand trained backup QB. I can't recall who our punt returner is anymore. The only 3rd down stop we had all day our best defensive player headbutted someone. And this was all after a bye week.

I do believe that the collective bargaining rule changes have hurt team stubby. Draft and develop is much harder and teams around the NFL are putting forth shit products (except the eagles). Also if this doesn't do Dom Capers in, mail in next year too.

[woodbuck27]

Mike McCarthy gives max credit for the Lions win last night to their success on 3rd downs differential.

He said words to this effect ' looking at it Stafford threw the heck out of the ball '.

An honest or more forthright Head Coach might have simply said 'we simply stunk out there that Packer team looked bad onbothsides of the ball '.

It sure appears to me that we're stuck with both TT and MM and likely because 'it's just one Big Family' Dom Capers too.

Read this 'loud and clear':

Brett Hundley is not an NFL quality QB.

If Colin Kapernick is being Black Balled we are about to find out as either the Texans or the GREEN BAY Packers should logically sign him like today. Ted Thompson will get another fail if he doesn't do something and QB today because right now he doesn't have an NFL QB that is capable of winning unless all the Packer WR's get on board and trying to catch not much more than a 30 yard pass. Brett Hundley looks really bad, really rattled. He's not a decent QB with the temperment I see.

Ted Thompson sign Colin Kapernick today or do something else that's more positive and another obvious miss and drafting Bret Hundley. What were you thinking TT given how he played the position in College; a miracle !?

[Fritz]

I would say the verdict is in on this dumpster fire. MM was ill prepared with his hand trained backup QB. I can't recall who our punt returner is anymore. The only 3rd down stop we had all day our best defensive player headbutted someone. And this was all after a bye week.

I do believe that the collective bargaining rule changes have hurt team stubby. Draft and develop is much harder and teams around the NFL are putting forth shit products (except the eagles). Also if this doesn't do Dom Capers in, mail in next year too.

I say fire Dom now. Shake it up a little; that performance, given the relative health of the defense and the bye week, was inexcusable. You can't change the whole scheme, but you can change some of the calls and the emphasis.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If Colin Kapernick is being Black Balled we are about to find out as either the Texans or the GREEN BAY Packers should logically sign him like[B] today.

He would at least get a tryout.

I think everybody can see that Kap is being shunned becuz he is perceived as toxic. He did enough good as an NFL starter that somebody would want to try to fix his shortcomings. Perhaps some coach who fashions himself a QB whisperer would jump on the potential there. Kap comes cheap.

[Rutnstrut]

We are stuck with the 3 stooges. I have been saying for years that the Packers org is happy with the status quo.

[woodbuck27]

He would at least get a tryout.

I think everybody can see that Kap is being shunned becuz he is perceived as toxic. He did enough good as an NFL starter that somebody would want to try to fix his shortcomings. Perhaps some coach who fashions himself a QB whisperer would jump on the potential there. Kap comes cheap.

Is Ted Thompson 'too fricken White' to not realize he must do something at QB now?

Is Ted Thompson simply going to enjoy seeing the Packers TANK for a higher Draft Pick?

[woodbuck27]

Packer Nation cries out !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO7N2tFb0X8

[call_me_ishmael]

I'm not sure they're going to win another game. This was my initial SWAG after the injury. Baltimore is getting healthy again I think, and Cleveland might just be able to beat us, lol.

Capers won't be back IMO.


Saints - L 38-16

Not a ton of time to prepare, Saints had offensive burst against DET so expect more of the same.

Lions - L 35-17

MM is legit off the bye but DET too good. Stafford is much better than what's-his-face.

@Bears - L 24-21

John Fox is a great coach coaching for his job, he'll have his team ready to go here.

Ravens - W 21-17

John Harbaugh is the second best coach in the NFL but they just don't have it movin' right now. Is Flocco back yet?

@Steelers - L 35-13

Heinz field will be rockin'. Tough place, tough team.

Buccaneers - Coin flip

Could go either way. Bucs have some young talent and seem poised to get it going soonish.

@Browns - W 24-7

LOL. Da Browns got nothing but Joe Thomas.

@Panthers - L 38-16 If Kuchley is playing

Panthers are a different team with LK. If he's playing, they are a super bowl contender in NFC. If not, well, we all saw 2016.

Vikings - L 27-16

Vikes are the best team in the NFCN but Detroit has the better QB. Expect Vikes to win this game and drop close division to DET.

@Lions - L 35-16 Happy New Year

Stafford clinches the division and is the most beloved player in the league.

I've got 'em winning at most 3 more games. This is just spit balling off the top of my head. I'm wrong a lot so I'll probably be wrong here too.

[woodbuck27]

http://www.12up.com/posts/5775182-mike-mccarthy-may-have-put-himself-on-hot-seat-with-postgame-quote?a_aid=36476

Mike McCarthy May Have Put Himself on Hot Seat With Postgame Quote

BY: Dan O'Shea .....07 NOV 2017

Ryan Wood ✔@ByRyanWood
Mike McCarthy: "Brett Hundley played better today. I have great faith in Brett Hundley. Brett Hundley is not our issue right now." 12:58 AM - Nov 7, 2017

​​"...If you're not blaming the loss on Hundley, then it has to fall on his shoulders.

It's come to a point where it's hard to ignore the Packers' abysmal record without Aaron Rodgers in.

He's one of the best players in the league and certainly leaves a huge hole in this offense now that he's out with a broken collarbone, but this season should not go up in flames now that he's on the sidelines.

It's unfair to compare, but look what happened to the Patriots when Tom Brady was lost for the season with a knee injury years ago. They still managed to win double-digit games without arguably the greatest quarterback of all time. .

The fact that this team can't generate any offense at all means they're poorly coached. ..."

[Pugger]

http://www.12up.com/posts/5775182-mike-mccarthy-may-have-put-himself-on-hot-seat-with-postgame-quote?a_aid=36476

Mike McCarthy May Have Put Himself on Hot Seat With Postgame Quote

BY: Dan O'Shea .....07 NOV 2017

Ryan Wood ✔@ByRyanWood
Mike McCarthy: "Brett Hundley played better today. I have great faith in Brett Hundley. Brett Hundley is not our issue right now." 12:58 AM - Nov 7, 2017

​​"...If you're not blaming the loss on Hundley, then it has to fall on his shoulders.

It's come to a point where it's hard to ignore the Packers' abysmal record without Aaron Rodgers in.

He's one of the best players in the league and certainly leaves a huge hole in this offense now that he's out with a broken collarbone, but this season should not go up in flames now that he's on the sidelines.

It's unfair to compare, but look what happened to the Patriots when Tom Brady was lost for the season with a knee injury years ago. They still managed to win double-digit games without arguably the greatest quarterback of all time. .

The fact that this team can't generate any offense at all means they're poorly coached. ..."

I hate to disappoint you but McCarthy isn't on the hot seat. Capers is another case entirely. His defenses have been woeful for a while now but #12 had been able to mask it. I consider losing Rodgers might end up being a blessing in disguise. It will force Mac to finally make a change on that side of the ball this offseason. When Brady was lost for the season NE had a functioning defense.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I hate to disappoint you but McCarthy isn't on the hot seat. Capers is another case entirely. His defenses have been woeful for a while now but #12 had been able to mask it. I consider losing Rodgers might end up being a blessing in disguise. It will force Mac to finally make a change on that side of the ball this offseason. When Brady was lost for the season NE had a functioning defense.What exactly would it take to put Stubby on the hot seat in GB? Personally, I think the guy is bullet-proof no matter what he does or doesn't do. He's kind of the Marv Levy of the NFC with a Super Bowl ring.

Nobody's going to blame him for injuries. On the other hand, he's pretty much bet the team's season on Hundley. And he's double-downed on that bet, saying he "knows" what ails the team and it ain't Hundley. He's also said that he's learned from previous Arod injuries not to expect the substitute QB to do what Arod does. That implies he has a plan to at least make Hundley serviceable. Maybe he does, yet, after a long bye week, playing at home, we're still waiting. Maybe things will improve the rest of the way. Maybe not.

The irony is that Stubby might do what he does best: coach with his back to the wall, rally the troops and eek us into the playoffs where he can do what he does second best...lose to a team with an elite QB. Then, TT can do what he does best: draft at the tail end of the 1st round and develop...again.

It's what we've come to know as business as usual in GB. To say I've got mixed feelings about that is an understatement if there ever was one.:-|

[denverYooper]

M3 is safe. He's done enough over his career to earn a pass for struggling with his starting QB out.

[mraynrand]

When the opposing team never punts it's pretty easy not to heap the bulk of the blame on your marginal QB.

In fairness, other than red zone efficiency Detroit's offense is pretty good. But the Packer defense made them look great. The Packer D has had two terrible games in a row. But it was against teams with pro bowl QBs.

[pbmax]

McCarthy is only one part of the decision to have Hundley be the backup QB. Thompson has final roster say. The decision to stick with Hundley isn't going to hurt him with Thompson.

A malfunctioning offense for the rest of the season might.

But the biggest bone of contention will be the defense. The 3rd down problem has been there through a LOT of years and personnel. Thompson has said he doesn't like telling a coach who his assistants should be, but if the team decides Capers needs to go, McCarthy might balk. He has gone to the mat publicly for Capers before.

[Maxie the Taxi]

McCarthy is only one part of the decision to have Hundley be the backup QB. Thompson has final roster say. The decision to stick with Hundley isn't going to hurt him with Thompson.

A malfunctioning offense for the rest of the season might.

But the biggest bone of contention will be the defense. The 3rd down problem has been there through a LOT of years and personnel. Thompson has said he doesn't like telling a coach who his assistants should be, but if the team decides Capers needs to go, McCarthy might balk. He has gone to the mat publicly for Capers before.That's a bit of a contradiction...Thompson "doesn't like telling a coach who his assistants should be," but has "final say" on who his backup QB should be? I think both TT and Stubby completely committed to Hundley as the backup a year or two ago. Both are fully invested in him because I think they genuinely like him as a person and know he has the physical tools. Hundley's problem is between his ears. Maybe Stubby can fix that, maybe he can't. Time will tell for sure.

[pbmax]

That's a bit of a contradiction...Thompson "doesn't like telling a coach who his assistants should be," but has "final say" on who his backup QB should be? I think both TT and Stubby completely committed to Hundley as the backup a year or two ago. Both are fully invested in him because I think they genuinely like him as a person and know he has the physical tools. Hundley's problem is between his ears. Maybe Stubby can fix that, maybe he can't. Time will tell for sure.

Its not a contradiction any more that Wolf telling Holmgren that despite Wolf having final roster say he would never stick Holmy with a player he truly did not want on his team. Thompson could fire the entire assistant coaching staff and retain only Edgar Bennett by the letter of his contract, doesn't mean he is going to do it.

McGinn surmised (all but said it happened this way but with no sources other than the voices in his head) that Thompson wanted to fire Sanders a year before McCarthy ended up announcing the defensive coaches were out. Did Thompson order this? Probably not by my read, but I suspect, as Bob does, that he made his view known to the HC.

I suspect they know what is going on in Hundley's head much better now that when he was a rookie or that scouting report was created. They've been living with him for three years. They trusted Rodgers, I am giving them a free one on Hundley.

[esoxx]

Bring Black Graham Harrell!!!

[MadScientist]

The Packers have answered this thread - They're shutting up.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Bring Black Graham Harrell!!!

Hundley is the black Graham HArrell.

[bobblehead]

He would at least get a tryout.

I think everybody can see that Kap is being shunned becuz he is perceived as toxic. He did enough good as an NFL starter that somebody would want to try to fix his shortcomings. Perhaps some coach who fashions himself a QB whisperer would jump on the potential there. Kap comes cheap.

Same could be argued about Tebow. He should be a backup somewhere, but no one wants the distraction. Teams have the right not to have a walking news cycle on the roster.

[bobblehead]

I suspect they know what is going on in Hundley's head much better now that when he was a rookie or that scouting report was created. They've been living with him for three years. They trusted Rodgers, I am giving them a free one on Hundley.

I was giving them a free one til I watched our QB throw every pass 5 yards or less coming off a bye week. Not so much now.

[pbmax]

Same could be argued about Tebow. He should be a backup somewhere, but no one wants the distraction. Teams have the right not to have a walking news cycle on the roster.

No one wants Tebow as a QB. Not even New England after that stint.

He would need to convert positions.

[Harlan Huckleby]

He would need to convert positions.

There's a very good joke in there somewhere, perhaps involving Tebow the missionary, will get back to you.

[woodbuck27]

I hate to disappoint you but McCarthy isn't on the hot seat. Capers is another case entirely. His defenses have been woeful for a while now but #12 had been able to mask it. I consider losing Rodgers might end up being a blessing in disguise. It will force Mac to finally make a change on that side of the ball this offseason. When Brady was lost for the season NE had a functioning defense.

New England also had a functioning Offense....right !?

How many games did the NE Patriots win in the Season that Tom Brady was lost and they were forced to a Backup QB? Was the Backup QB position effective or not?

Did Mike McCarthy have that done and his Backup QB? Does Green Bay have a positively effective or winning Backup QB? Does Brett Hundley look like a winner to you Pugger? If not why is that the case?

Is it on MM or TT or a combination of both to have an effective or capable of winning Backup QB ready to go and in any need?

How many games do you reasonably project that the Green Bay Packers will win to Seasons end with MM's Backup QB being Brett Hundley? Are you as a Packer fan optimistic or in any sense of reality hopeful?

It sure appears at this time the correct response to my question (s) is what Pugger?

Arn't the Green Bay Packers damned at the Backup QB position?

[mraynrand]

New England also had a functioning Offense....right !?

How many games did the NE Patriots win in the Season that Tom Brady was lost and they were forced to a Backup QB? Was the Backup QB position effective or not?

Did Mike McCarthy have that done and his Backup QB? Does Green Bay have a positively effective or winning Backup QB? Does Brett Hundley look like a winner to you Pugger? If not why is that the case?

Is it on MM or TT or a combination of both to have an effective or capable of winning Backup QB ready to go and in any need?

How many games do you reasonably project that the Green Bay Packers will win to Seasons end with MM's Backup QB being Brett Hundley? Are you as a Packer fan optimistic or in any sense of reality hopeful?

It sure appears at this time the correct response to my question (s) is what Pugger?

Arn't the Green Bay Packers damned at the Backup QB position?


we understand that you know how to compare the Packers to the best team in football. Now try comparing to any other team that lost their starter for the season. Let us know what your comprehensive research reveals.

[ThunderDan]

Here are Matt Cassel's 1st 5 games as Brady's replacement in 2008:
13/18, 152 yards 1TD NE Points for Game - 17
16/23, 165 yards NE Points for Game - 19
19/31, 131 yards 1TD, 1INT NE Points for Game - 13
22/32, 259 yards 1TD, 2INT NE Points for Game - 30
22/38, 203 yards 1INT NE Points for Game - 10

Should NE have been looking for a different backup QB after those 5 games?

[ThunderDan]

Could you imagine losing 38-13 and your backup QB going 19/31, 131 yards 1TD and 1 INT Rating of 68.1?

Woodbuck would be asking for that whole front office and every coach in NE to be fired.

[woodbuck27]

What exactly would it take to put Stubby on the hot seat in GB? Personally, I think the guy is bullet-proof no matter what he does or doesn't do. He's kind of the Marv Levy of the NFC with a Super Bowl ring.

Nobody's going to blame him for injuries. On the other hand, he's pretty much bet the team's season on Hundley. And he's double-downed on that bet, saying he "knows" what ails the team and it ain't Hundley. He's also said that he's learned from previous Arod injuries not to expect the substitute QB to do what Arod does. That implies he has a plan to at least make Hundley serviceable. Maybe he does, yet, after a long bye week, playing at home, we're still waiting. Maybe things will improve the rest of the way. Maybe not.

The irony is that Stubby might do what he does best: coach with his back to the wall, rally the troops and eek us into the playoffs where he can do what he does second best...lose to a team with an elite QB. Then, TT can do what he does best: draft at the tail end of the 1st round and develop...again.

It's what we've come to know as business as usual in GB. To say I've got mixed feelings about that is an understatement if there ever was one.:-|

Green Bay is Green Bay is Green Bay is .....

Just One BIG HAPPY FAMILY ................ and meanwhile .........

[woodbuck27]

Here are Matt Cassel's 1st 5 games as Brady's replacement in 2008:
13/18, 152 yards 1TD NE Points for Game - 17
16/23, 165 yards NE Points for Game - 19
19/31, 131 yards 1TD, 1INT NE Points for Game - 13
22/32, 259 yards 1TD, 2INT NE Points for Game - 30
22/38, 203 yards 1INT NE Points for Game - 10

Should NE have been looking for a different backup QB after those 5 games?

This won't ne too hard....hahaha. :whaa:

Hey ThunderDan.... after those five games what was their Record with Matt Cassel as their Backup QB and were they losing?

In The 2008 Season and Week NO. 1 and despite losing Starting QB Tom Brady to a Season ending torn ACL and MCL and Backup QB Matt Cassell coming on to replace Brady the Patriots won the game against the KC Chiefs by a score of 17-10.

Week 2: The New England Patriots defeat the New York Jets by a score of 19-10. Season Record is now 2W - 0L.

Week 3: The Patriots suffer a terrible loss to the Miami Dolphins by a score of 38-13. Big Deal their HC id Bill Belichick and their Bye Week is in Week 4....loads of time to Re-Load. ....Season Record 2W - 1 L.

Week 4: Bye Week

Week 5: How well did the Patriots respond on a Road Game? Well not too bad with a 30-21 win over the San Francisco 49ers.The Patriots Season Record goes to 3 W-1 L. It's OK and after a tough first game of a two game Western Road Swing..

Week 6: Work to do as the Patriots drop this 2nd game in a row on the Road (and it's difficult to play out West on the Road).At San Diego the Final Score was Chargers 30 - Patriots 10. [B]The Season Record now falls to 3 W - 2 L.

Week 7: Back Home after going 1-1 on the Road and their Season Record at 3-2 the NE Patriots Blow Out the Denver Broncos by a score of 41-7.

Their Season Record goes to 4 W - 2 L....piece of cake !


Week 8: The Patriots keep rolling defeating the RAMS by a score of 23-16 to push their record without Tom Brady to 5 W - 2 L.

Things were going very well for the New England Patriots without the GREAT Tom Brady. The QB who will be deemed by a majority as the Greatest QB to ever play the game of football.

Despite finishing the regular season with an 11–5 record, the Patriots did not qualify for the playoffs. They were the first 11-win team since the expansion to a 12-team playoff in 1990 to not make the playoffs.

ThunderDan do you want to try to make some other point?

[ThunderDan]

ThunderDan do you want to try to make some other point?

What point do you think I am trying to make? Because you completely missed it the first time you responded.

[woodbuck27]

What point do you think I am trying to make? Because you completely missed it the first time you responded.

You just keep being you and believing what you believe.

If that works for you ...awesome. :huh:

What I wouldn't give to have you on my Poker Table.hahaha

Easy Money ... Bank.

[ThunderDan]

You just keep being you and believing what you believe.

If that works for you ...awesome. :huh:

What I wouldn't give to have you on my Poker Table.hahaha

Easy Money ..Bank.

When you have a WSOP final table and over $200,000 in live tournament cashes I'll let you play in my home game.

Does it make it better because it is a different color and size?

[woodbuck27]

When you have a WSOP final table and over $200,000 in live tournament cashes I'll let you play in my home game.

Does it make it better because it is a different color and size?

hahaha Your money = Easily mine (and Texas Holdem'....a LOCK.)

You need to have it between the ears Sonny, You need to be able to compete. :duel:

You = 'No Contest'. :sad:

[ThunderDan]

I'm coming out to Maine next summer for a conference. Maybe we could meet somewhere out there and play $50/$100 NLH with a $10,000 buy-in heads-up.

Not worth my time or money to take less than 10k from you.

[woodbuck27]

I'm coming out to Maine next summer for a conference. Maybe we could meet somewhere out there and play $50/$100 NLH with a $10,000 buy-in heads-up.

Not worth my time or money to take less than 10k from you.

Will your shit - bullshit smell any differently in Maine than in Wisconsin? :roll:

[ThunderDan]

I'm coming out to Maine next summer for a conference. Maybe we could meet somewhere out there and play $50/$100 NLH with a $10,000 buy-in heads-up.

Not worth my time or money to take less than 10k from you.


Will your shit - bullshit smell any differently in Maine than in Wisconsin? :roll:

I'll take that as a No.

[woodbuck27]

I'll take that as a No.

I'm being a really nice Guy and offering you 'the Mercy Rule'.

ThunderDan I would do to you the same as I've done to over the TOP way too many:

Swollow your chips $Cash$ on a Poker Table.

You would simply be ' the Chump ' to me Sonny. Thst is NO BS. Your a certain Mark...I'd own you ThunderDan.

I know my skills and playing Poker are strong. I have too much faith in my intelligence and what playing Poker very well overall means

Your far too young and too inexperienced and certainly not smart enough to ever survive me on a Poker Table.

You would end up one very frustrated and broken young man.

[channtheman]

M3 is safe. He's done enough over his career to earn a pass for struggling with his starting QB out.

Don't you think struggling without Aaron Rodgers shows that MM is actually a poor coach? We all know how good Rodgers is, so if MM can't win a game without him, couldn't any coach in the NFL do that?


When the opposing team never punts it's pretty easy not to heap the bulk of the blame on your marginal QB.

In fairness, other than red zone efficiency Detroit's offense is pretty good. But the Packer defense made them look great. The Packer D has had two terrible games in a row. But it was against teams with pro bowl QBs.

And you have to beat those pro bowl QBs eventually.

[woodbuck27]

Don't you think struggling without Aaron Rodgers shows that MM is actually a poor coach? We all know how good Rodgers is, so if MM can't win a game without him, couldn't any coach in the NFL do that?



And you have to beat those pro bowl QBs eventually.

Isn't it fun to debate with 'The men From Madison'.

[mraynrand]

And you have to beat those pro bowl QBs eventually.

The defense isn't good enough to beat them without an offense able to apply some pressure by scoring points. Packers need to put up or shut up on both sides of the ball.

[Rutnstrut]

Here are Matt Cassel's 1st 5 games as Brady's replacement in 2008:
13/18, 152 yards 1TD NE Points for Game - 17
16/23, 165 yards NE Points for Game - 19
19/31, 131 yards 1TD, 1INT NE Points for Game - 13
22/32, 259 yards 1TD, 2INT NE Points for Game - 30
22/38, 203 yards 1INT NE Points for Game - 10

Should NE have been looking for a different backup QB after those 5 games?

Moot point, NE had a defense. GB has none, not kind of one, NONE!!!

[ThunderDan]

Moot point, NE had a defense. GB has none, not kind of one, NONE!!!

Finally, someone who gets my point.

The D is horrible and it isn’t reasonable for a backup QB to step in and run the O like the starter. It will take weeks for the O and Hundley to get to be a smooth running unit.

NE had a D that could step up and win games. We don’t. Losses will pile up but I am still not going to judge Hundley harshly yet. He needs more time to be honestly evaluated.

[Rutnstrut]

Finally, someone who gets my point.

The D is horrible and it isn’t reasonable for a backup QB to step in and run the O like the starter. It will take weeks for the O and Hundley to get to be a smooth running unit.

NE had a D that could step up and win games. We don’t. Losses will pile up but I am still not going to judge Hundley harshly yet. He needs more time to be honestly evaluated.

I agree with you that it's really too soon to be judging Hundley. I can and will however harshly judge the rest of the team and coaching staff which yet again has failed to step up.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I have defended TT and M3 often against the charge that they are lucky morons who landed Arod... ...maybe it is time to get Rodgers the coach and GM he deserves.It is time.

[denverYooper]

lol