other games (week 8)...

[gbgary]

cle giving min a good game so far, up 13-12 at ht. can they pull off the miracle and extend the Packers' false hope?

[Harlan Huckleby]

Wow! What a hit!

[Teamcheez1]

Vikings will go nowhere even if they win the division. Not saying we would do any better.

[red]

one of the dumbest plays ever by the chargers return man

muffs a punt inside the 20, picks it up around the 10, then runs it into the endzone when he gets smothered for a safety

[gbgary]

atl and nyj playing in a downpour.

[gbgary]

phi only up 9-0 on sf. what's up with that?

[Freak Out]

Bears D is pretty good.

[red]

the fucking bears just came closer to beating the saints, in NO then we did last week at home

[ThunderDan]

TJ Watt has a great burst. Unfortunately, Det just pushes him upfield and out of the play so far.

[pbmax]

TJ Watt has a great burst. Unfortunately, Det just pushes him upfield and out of the play so far.

Its a backup tackle he's facing too, no?

[Zool]

Peyton Manning only makes annoying commercials. Is that intentional?

[ThunderDan]

Pitt D gives up 481 yards and only 15 points so far.

[Zool]

How does Caldwell still have a job?

[ThunderDan]

Det 483 yards 15 points

[Joemailman]

How does Caldwell still have a job?

It's a franchise where Matt Millen lasted 7 years.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Game 5 of the World Series is beyond great. Houston has almost outscored the Lions. A real slugfest. Unbelievable. It's 12-9 in the 8th.

[Pugger]

Game 5 of the World Series is beyond great. Houston has almost outscored the Lions. A real slugfest. Unbelievable. It's 12-9 in the 8th.

And the Dodgers tie it with 2 outs in the top of the 9th.

[Teamcheez1]

Det 483 yards 15 points

I think our defense can give up at least 600 yards and 30 points to the Lions next week.

[Pugger]

I think our defense can give up at least 600 yards and 30 points to the Lions next week.

However Detroit's pass defense isn't much better than ours...

[Teamcheez1]

Julius Peppers has 7.5 sacks (in eight games).

The Packers OLBs (Clay, Perry, Brooks, Fackrell, and Odom) have 7 combined.

[Zool]

Julius Peppers has 7.5 sacks (in eight games).

The Packers OLBs (Clay, Perry, Brooks, Fackrell, and Odom) have 7 combined.

Which tells me it's not the players, it's the scheme.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Which tells me it's not the players, it's the scheme.I agree. Micah Hyde is another example. He got an INT yesterday. He's now leading the league with 5. I think Capers is out of tricks that the rest of the league hasn't figured out.

[pbmax]

Game 5 of the World Series is beyond great. Houston has almost outscored the Lions. A real slugfest. Unbelievable. It's 12-9 in the 8th.

And they weren't done!

[pbmax]

Which tells me it's not the players, it's the scheme.

Peppers has a lot more D line help in pass rush.

I am starting to come around more to the coaching side of the problem, but pass rushing deficit on Packers is also a matter of talent.

[red]

bears TE zach miller could lose his leg after dislocating his knee yesterday

doctors are trying hard to save it

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/doctors-reportedly-fighting-save-bears-te-zach-millers-leg-injury-133453600.html

http://www.readingeagle.com/storyimage/RE/20171029/AP/310299701/AR/0/AR-310299701.jpg&q=80&MaxW=550&MaxH=400&RCRadius=5

[mraynrand]

Which tells me it's not the players, it's the scheme.

Maybe it's the surrounding players. If they don't take up defenders, it's easier to slide protection to Peppers. It's probably both. Addison and Short are pretty tough hombres.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Maybe it's the surrounding players. If they don't take up defenders, it's easier to slide protection to Peppers. It's probably both. Addison and Short are pretty tough hombres.Hey Rand, have you given any thought to the Packers switching to a 4/3 defense? That would probably mean a different D-Coordinator, and it may mean we could get another tough hombres on the line. I saw this article and it made sense to me, but then I'm not an x's and o's guy. hahahaha

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2017/10/26/16547494/packers-defense-scheme-34-43-dom-capers-seahawks

[gbgary]

bears TE zach miller could lose his leg after dislocating his knee yesterday

doctors are trying hard to save it

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/doctors-reportedly-fighting-save-bears-te-zach-millers-leg-injury-133453600.html

terrible injury.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Hey Rand, have you given any thought to the Packers switching to a 4/3 defense? That would probably mean a different D-Coordinator, and it may mean we could get another tough hombres on the line. I saw this article and it made sense to me, but then I'm not an x's and o's guy. hahahaha

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2017/10/26/16547494/packers-defense-scheme-34-43-dom-capers-seahawks

All for a switch to a 4-3 and a new DC. I just think the 3-4 lends itself to DCs getting too cute with their calls and makes a defense more complicated than it needs to be especially for their own players. Thus you get what we have when seemingly players are playing different coverage on far too many plays.

[Smidgeon]

All for a switch to a 4-3 and a new DC. I just think the 3-4 lends itself to DCs getting too cute with their calls and makes a defense more complicated than it needs to be especially for their own players. Thus you get what we have when seemingly players are playing different coverage on far too many plays.

How would Clark and Daniels do in a 4-3? Right now, they are both playing outstandingly, taking on double teams and winning the battles.

[mraynrand]

All for a switch to a 4-3 and a new DC. I just think the 3-4 lends itself to DCs getting too cute with their calls and makes a defense more complicated than it needs to be especially for their own players. Thus you get what we have when seemingly players are playing different coverage on far too many plays.

Capers and Trgo both told me they like versatility and the ability to play multiple fronts and looks with the exact same personnel on the field. For example, Peppers and Perry can play DE or OLB. But honestly, mostly these two look silly dropping into coverage, even though Peppers made a play or two there. They do get too cute with the zone blitz looks sometimes, but really, the problem is more personnel than scheme. Packers have some good solid players, but very little exceptionalism. That's why Peppers stood out so much. Because when he was on, he could make athletic plays, get that strip/sack recovery, get that INT. Clay used to be able to do that, but it appears that's mostly gone. Perry is great against the run, and can generate some pressure, but he needs help to really stand out routinely.

The article Maxi posted suggested man coverage. Man or Zone, if this defense can't generate pressure, they are going to continue to get shredded by crossing patterns.

[mraynrand]

How would Clark and Daniels do in a 4-3? Right now, they are both playing outstandingly, taking on double teams and winning the battles.

It would be nice to see some pressure from the outside so that they can't be doubled so much.

[ThunderDan]

All for a switch to a 4-3 and a new DC. I just think the 3-4 lends itself to DCs getting too cute with their calls and makes a defense more complicated than it needs to be especially for their own players. Thus you get what we have when seemingly players are playing different coverage on far too many plays.

But if you look at our D we really are playing a 4 man front 65% of the time. Two DL and the two OLB playing up on the line.

Watching the PITT game last night what stood out to me is that they would put 5 or 6 guys on the line on passing downs and then drop some back. DET never knew where the pass rush was coming from. DET's OL was able to handle the confusion but most teams so far this year haven't been able to figure it out.

[Joemailman]

How would Clark and Daniels do in a 4-3? Right now, they are both playing outstandingly, taking on double teams and winning the battles.

I think Daniels, Clark and Lowry would be a very good DT trio in a 4-3. I don't think they should necessarily go to a 4-3. I think they should find the best DC candidate available out there, regardless of whether he favors a 4-3 or 3-4.

[mraynrand]

But if you look at our D we really are playing a 4 man front 65% of the time. Two DL and the two OLB playing up on the line.

Watching the PITT game last night what stood out to me is that they would put 5 or 6 guys on the line on passing downs and then drop some back. DET never knew where the pass rush was coming from. DET's OL was able to handle the confusion but most teams so far this year haven't been able to figure it out.


But several of those guys have to be able to both rush the passer and reasonably cover. Steelers can do that with You, Me and Dupree (Shazier, and Watt, and Bud Dupree) as well as others.

The author pretty much is saying that Josh Jones should play LB instead of Jake Ryan. Some of us have suggested that long ago. He could be like a faster Shazier. Don't know how he stands up to the run over the long haul...

[run pMc]

bears TE zach miller could lose his leg after dislocating his knee yesterday

doctors are trying hard to save it

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/doctors-reportedly-fighting-save-bears-te-zach-millers-leg-injury-133453600.html



Wow. Just wow. I hope they can save his leg. That's a scary/terrible injury. Don't care what team he plays for, that's just horrible.

[Maxie the Taxi]

All for a switch to a 4-3 and a new DC. I just think the 3-4 lends itself to DCs getting too cute with their calls and makes a defense more complicated than it needs to be especially for their own players. Thus you get what we have when seemingly players are playing different coverage on far too many plays.I agree with this. Years ago when Capers arrived his scheming put pressure on opposing QB's and DC's because they'd have to attack something they might not have seen before or something they weren't too accustomed to. Now I think Capers 3/4 is just too easy to figure out. Teams have seen it and can deal with it.

I also like the idea of wearing down the other guy's fat guys with four fat guys of our own on every down. That way when they do rush a LB or two, it will be unexpected and probably more effective. We just need a more consistent push up front.

I also think it simplifies things which would allow our defensive guys to be thinking less and reacting more.

To work well Capers' system requires big guys who are exceptional athletes at LB like Peppers, Matthews and Perry. There's not too many of that type guy around, especially at the position we usually draft.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Another advantage of a simplified 4/3 defense just occurred to me. That is that when injuries occur it wouldn't screw up our defense as much. The learning curve wouldn't be as steep and assignments wouldn't be missed by the replacements so frequently.

[texaspackerbacker]

I think the lack of pass rush has been more a matter of Clay Matthews being a step slower, Perry having a low ceiling, talent-wise, Peppers being gone, and Fackrell being generally mediocre than a matter of scheme. It's a long shot, but hopoefully Vince Biegel can provide some pass rush help. I have always been a supporter of Capers, and I still think his scheming is the only thing saving the Packers from a worse case of mediocrity on defense.

A 4-3 is usually a lot more dependent on talent - beating your opponent straight up - than the 3-4 where there is flexibility for scheming, and we seem to be lacking in talent.

[MadScientist]

But if you look at our D we really are playing a 4 man front 65% of the time. Two DL and the two OLB playing up on the line.

Watching the PITT game last night what stood out to me is that they would put 5 or 6 guys on the line on passing downs and then drop some back. DET never knew where the pass rush was coming from. DET's OL was able to handle the confusion but most teams so far this year haven't been able to figure it out.
This is what I always thought the 3-4 was all about. You rush your 3 down guys plus one other, but which of the 4 LB's rush is unpredictable. By picking supposed DE/LB hybrids, you lose flexibility and the system effectively becomes a mediocre 4-3. It can still work if some players are exceptional, but the Packers don't have any exceptional pass rushers in the front 7.

The result of bad personnel decisions is even more predictable than the Packers defense.

[MadScientist]

[QUOTE=red;947171]bears TE zach miller could lose his leg after dislocating his knee yesterday

doctors are trying hard to save it

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/doctors-reportedly-fighting-save-bears-te-zach-millers-leg-injury-133453600.html

That picture was so awful I had to block it. I really wish Miller the best for his recovery and hope the leg can be saved. It's like his knee did what Bridgewater's did last year, except there was a guy on him.

[Freak Out]

Wow....it's a real stomach turner.

[red]

sounds like the bear staff on the field knew just how bad it was and rushed him straight to the hospital

the bears came out with a statement saying that the surgery was successful. so i think that means he shouldn't lose his leg, but the career might still be up in the air

just a nasty freak injury that could happen to almost any player on any play

[mraynrand]

How does Caldwell still have a job?

He could have won that game with 7 field goals, if he had just kept his robotic, emotionless sensibilities for one more play.

He'll feel better next Monday. Detroit won't have red zone problem with Green Bay. John Gruden will be loving every member of the Lions offense: "Just an outstanding player, Sean, one of the best I've ever seen"

[pbmax]

sounds like the bear staff on the field knew just how bad it was and rushed him straight to the hospital

the bears came out with a statement saying that the surgery was successful. so i think that means he shouldn't lose his leg, but the career might still be up in the air

just a nasty freak injury that could happen to almost any player on any play


Can you confirm that they are not now going to amputate his leg below the knee? What do sources close to you say?

[mraynrand]

Can you confirm that they are not now going to amputate his leg below the knee? What do sources close to you say?

Initially it sounded like they had to repair the femoral artery, but:

"Surgery to repair a damaged artery was performed at University Medical Center in New Orleans, where the Bears lost to the Saints. The Bears announced Monday that Miller, who had a dislocated knee, also had a torn popliteal artery, which branches off from the femoral artery and is located in the knee and back of the leg. The team termed surgery successful and said Miller, 33, “remains at UMC, along with Bears medical personnel, where he will stay under further evaluation.”

So it's unlikely that the leg will be amputated (there are a lot of other arteries that provide perfusion, so the leg doesn't die)

http://anatomy.medicine.yale.edu/graphics/unrestricted/grays/jpg/chapter6/F66124-006-f076%20-%20adductor%20hiatus.jpg

[red]

Initially it sounded like they had to repair the femoral artery, but:

"Surgery to repair a damaged artery was performed at University Medical Center in New Orleans, where the Bears lost to the Saints. The Bears announced Monday that Miller, who had a dislocated knee, also had a torn popliteal artery, which branches off from the femoral artery and is located in the knee and back of the leg. The team termed surgery successful and said Miller, 33, “remains at UMC, along with Bears medical personnel, where he will stay under further evaluation.”

So it's unlikely that the leg will be amputated (there are a lot of other arteries that provide perfusion, so the leg doesn't die)

http://anatomy.medicine.yale.edu/graphics/unrestricted/grays/jpg/chapter6/F66124-006-f076%20-%20adductor%20hiatus.jpg

whats the difference between the femoral and the popliteal?

the picture make them look like they are the same artery, just different sections

could he have died from this, lke when the femoral is punctured?

[red]

Can you confirm that they are not now going to amputate his leg below the knee? What do sources close to you say?

i was just going off the bears statement that surgery was a success, the surgery was to save his leg, so it being successful would have to mean that they saved it

[Joemailman]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2741485-calvin-johnson-trade-rumors-eagles-jaguars-have-interest-in-retired-wr


The Philadelphia Eagles and Jacksonville Jaguars are the two teams that reached out to the Detroit Lions about potentially trading for retired wide receiver Calvin Johnson.

ESPN's Chris Mortensen discussed the situation Monday morning on Mike & Mike.

"The speculation has been the Philadelphia Eagles," Mortensen said (h/t Jimmy Kempski of the Philly Voice). "Once again, they need a tackle. They’re 7-1. They have only a first-round pick next year, and three 4s. They don’t have a second- or third-round pick. That’s not good.

"What’s it going to take to get Calvin Johnson, who by the way has a base salary still on the books for $16 million? Calvin has been working out, I guess, but does he really want to play? Jacksonville’s ears are perked up. Chances are, I don’t think it happens.”

[Teamcheez1]

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2741485-calvin-johnson-trade-rumors-eagles-jaguars-have-interest-in-retired-wr

The wire says the Seahawks traded for left tackle Duane Brown from the Texans. Wonder if Philly was ever in the conversation?

[Joemailman]

The wire says the Seahawks traded for left tackle Duane Brown from the Texans. Wonder if Philly was ever in the conversation?

Seattle gave up cornerback Jeremy Lane, a 2018 5th round pick and a 2019 2nd round pick for Brown.

[mraynrand]

whats the difference between the femoral and the popliteal?

the picture make them look like they are the same artery, just different sections

could he have died from this, lke when the femoral is punctured?

just different names for different levels, but it is the same artery. You typically won't bleed out from the pop, but you have to repair it or the leg is dead below that site.

[mraynrand]

Seattle gave up cornerback Jeremy Lane, a 2018 5th round pick and a 2019 2nd round pick for Brown.

Seattle wants to win. TT is sitting on his hands. He knows the Packers will still sell out games no matter what shit they throw on the field.

[mraynrand]

Redskins have the Packer plague too...

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21221230/injuries-mount-washington-redskins


By game's end, the Redskins' offensive line included a rookie undrafted free agent taking snaps at left tackle for the first time as a pro (Tyler Catalina), a left guard signed Saturday (Arie Kouandjio), a rookie center (Chase Roullier) and a right guard who was signed earlier in the week (Tony Bergstrom).

Washington already was without its top backup tackle, Ty Nsekhe, because of a core muscle injury. He was joined on the sideline by Williams, center Spencer Long (knees/quads) and right guard Brandon Scherff (knee).

"It makes me sick to my stomach," Long said of all the injuries.

Of the Redskins' top six linemen, only one, right tackle Morgan Moses, was on the field at game's end. He, too, is dealing with two sprained ankles.

[Pugger]

Seattle wants to win. TT is sitting on his hands. He knows the Packers will still sell out games no matter what shit they throw on the field.

Unless we trade for an elite QB we aren't going anywhere with this team even if he made a trade for a defensive player.

[woodbuck27]

[QUOTE=red;947171]bears TE zach miller could lose his leg after dislocating his knee yesterday

doctors are trying hard to save it

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/doctors-reportedly-fighting-save-bears-te-zach-millers-leg-injury-133453600.html

That picture was so awful I had to block it. I really wish Miller the best for his recovery and hope the leg can be saved. It's like his knee did what Bridgewater's did last year, except there was a guy on him.

The injuries this Season have looked really brutal on Video but this one...is enough to make you gag.

This is just so horrible.

[woodbuck27]

Unless we trade for an elite QB we aren't going anywhere with this team even if he made a trade for a defensive player.

Defend his 'Head In The Sand Ass'.

NO... don't ever imagine that the job of a competent GM in any Pro Sport is to do everything in his power to upgrade his team. He does that at every single opportunity.

Look at the success of the NE Patriots and Bill Belichick.

You missed your calling as a Defense Lawyer.

[Teamcheez1]

With Rodgers potentially out for the rest of the season, there is no reason to trade for any position.

[Fritz]

Defend his 'Head In The Sand Ass'.

NO... don't ever imagine that the job of a competent GM in any Pro Sport is to do everything in his power to upgrade his team. He does that at every single opportunity.

Look at the success of the NE Patriots and Bill Belichick.

You missed your calling as a Defense Lawyer.

Upgrade for when? For this season? For the next two or three years? For the long-term competetiveness of the franchise?

Woody, if you want to see your definition of a "competent" GM who is doing everything he can to get the biggest names rightnow, look at the Redskins of just a few years back.
be
If you mean that a competent GM thinks only about right this moment, then Belichek must be terrible, as he traded away his highly-regarded backup QB for a draft pick next year.

[gbgary]

With Rodgers potentially out for the rest of the season, there is no reason to trade for any position.

soooo...trying to improve the team for next year, and beyond, couldn't have been done? they should never not be thinking about making the team better by any means possible.

[denverYooper]

soooo...trying to improve the team for next year, and beyond, couldn't have been done? they should never not be thinking about making the team better by any means possible.

I highly doubt they ever don't think about this.