More Banjo: Week 9 vs. Detroit

[pbmax]

An untimed TD. Extra work to get kick operation nominal.

So Bulaga goes down. Burnett has a groin.

Last time the Lions didn't punt in a game was 1971.

Untimed touchdown beats over/under number.

Can the 2 minute offense give Hundley the plays he needs? Or was that the prevent defense by the Lions? Seemed like man coverage at end of each half.

[pbmax]

TEs had zero catches. Didn't Rick Rod play with Hundley in preseason and have some success?

Lenny Pipkins got the slot job after Randall went out. Randall did come back in. Rollins nowhere to be seen. Hawkins was outside when King got evaluated. King returned.

[mraynrand]

Untimed touchdown beats over/under number.

Great moments in gambling history. You know there were some guys in Vegas jumping up and down when Geronimo drew the interference penalty. Someone right this second is rolling in the money, handing out drinks and buying hookers.

[call_me_ishmael]

Stafford is an amazing player but what is with the defense? Can they get a stop at all? No pass rush, no coverage.

What's with the receivers and routes they run? I feel like our best receiver is the #3 in Detroit. I would take Golden Tate and Marvin Jones over all three of ours. Am I the only one?

Why are the Lion receivers always running free across the middle and our guys are super blanketed? WTF!

[mraynrand]

TEs had zero catches. Didn't Rick Rod play with Hundley in preseason and have some success?


I'm sure 82 caught one pass

[pbmax]

Great moments in gambling history. You know there were some guys in Vegas jumping up and down when Geronimo drew the interference penalty. Someone right this second is rolling in the money, handing out drinks and buying hookers.

Twitter has equal amounts of celebration and claims that the ref is on the take. :lol:

[mraynrand]

Rollins is on IR

[pbmax]

I'm sure 82 caught one pass

You are correct. My info must have been halftime or from a lunatic. Rodgers with 1 catch, Kendricks with 2.

[pbmax]

Rollins is on IR


Well that explains why he wasn't active.

:bang:

[mraynrand]

You are correct. My info must have been halftime or from a lunatic. Rodgers with 1 catch, Kendricks with 2.

I knew I was right because I saw him crumble to the ground directly on contact.

[pbmax]

I knew I was right because I saw him crumble to the ground directly on contact.

No YAC on that one, slimmed down or not. I remember it now. I thought he might jump free.

[Bossman641]

Absolutely pathetic showing. Pass rush nowhere to be found.

[mraynrand]

Absolutely pathetic showing. Pass rush nowhere to be found.

The decline of Clay Matthews is awful to watch. I bet he looks even worse on review too.

[mraynrand]

so much for fuckdoggles. We can't even manage a dogfuckle.

[Harlan Huckleby]

Football is a QB game. It was David vrs. Golliath. Golliath wins 99 out of hundred times, that was a lucky shot in the bible.

[pbmax]

Absolutely pathetic showing. Pass rush nowhere to be found.

Agreed. Plus as someone was complaining for a while, no bump on receivers means they get free fast, which leaves less time for pass rush to get there.

[Carolina_Packer]

Now we see how much of a deodorant A-Rod was to the defense. They had some moments where they were tough against the run, but then Detroit is not exactly a running team. The failure to generate a pass rush by winning one on ones, and then getting whipped on all of the all out blitzes is very discouraging.

[mraynrand]

Agreed. Plus as someone was complaining for a while, no bump on receivers means they get free fast, which leaves less time for pass rush to get there.


We only have one defensive back who even knows how to plaster and he's a rookie.

[pbmax]

Michael Cohen‏ @Michael_Cohen13 12m12 minutes ago
#Packers CB Damarious Randall on the defense: “We just shitted the bed. Point blank. Period.”

GONNA GUESS JSO WILL MODIFY THAT QUOTE BEFORE PUBLICATION, EVEN ON THE WEB

Jason Wilde‏Verified account @jasonjwilde 3m3 minutes ago
More McCarthy on Hundley: "I believe in Brett, and that’s not just a press-conference statement."

Jersey Al - GBP‏ @JerseyAlGBP 10m10 minutes ago
MM: "I know what we have to do to play better"

Jason Wilde @jasonjwilde 2m2 minutes ago
McCarthy on Hundley, continued: "He’s got what it takes. He has it in his body, he has it in his mind and he definitely has the heart."

Jason Wilde‏Verified account @jasonjwilde 5m5 minutes ago
#Packers coach Mike McCarthy on Brett Hundley: "I have great faith in Brett Hundley. Brett Hundley is not our issue right now."

Jersey Al - GBP‏ @JerseyAlGBP 13m13 minutes ago
MM: "We've got work to do"

Jason Wilde‏ @jasonjwilde 7m7 minutes ago
#Packers coach Mike McCarthy says Dr. Pat McKenzie and the medical staff "seem very concerned" about Bryan Bulaga's knee injury.

Michael Klinck‏ @MichaelKlinck 21m21 minutes ago
"We're 4-4, and thats not good enough for #Packers football."
McCarthy during his presser....count on it, @JerseyAlGBP #SameOldCliches

Jason Wilde‏Verified account @jasonjwilde 6m6 minutes ago
I tried asking about that. It did not yield a clear answer. Asked him specifically if it was a game-plan thing or Hundley's decisions.

WILDE WAS ASKED ABOUT WHY HUNDLEY AND PASS GAME WAS SO SHORT IN FIRST HALF IF, AS COACH SAID, HE HAD GREAT FAITH IN HUNDLEY

[pbmax]

Now we see how much of a deodorant A-Rod was to the defense. They had some moments where they were tough against the run, but then Detroit is not exactly a running team. The failure to generate a pass rush by winning one on ones, and then getting whipped on all of the all out blitzes is very discouraging.

Its easier to see defense's holes even when Rodgers was playing. But the holes in offense, for me, are easier to see now.

However, the final state of the offense won't be decided until the coach and the QB have to decide what they are going to do on offense. After this game, I think it means no huddle and lots of Monty not Jones.

[beveaux1]

The articles have started. https://sports.yahoo.com/packers-unwatchable-without-aaron-rodgers-042255149.html

[call_me_ishmael]

Is it just me or are teams with back-up quarterbacks still able to score a little bit and pass the ball down the field at all? I am not exaggerating or being disenguous when I say that I think Nelson is just really slow and a possession receiver, Adams doesn't have any speed or separation, and Randall is just too small and more quick than fast. The same problem we had in 2015 seems to still exist.

I'm not sure if it's a speed thing, or just a play calling thing, or how people are playing us. Ultimately our passing game is lackluster and it doesn't seem like our receivers ever break free and get some space. I can't remember the last time we caught a crossing route in stride.

[mraynrand]

The articles have started. https://sports.yahoo.com/packers-unwatchable-without-aaron-rodgers-042255149.html

The Packers threw the ball 18 times in the first half, and 13 were 5 or fewer yards downfield according to Jason Wilde of ESPN Wisconsin. Eight of those passes were behind the line of scrimmage. When ESPN showed Hundley’s chart after his first eight passes, only one pass had gone more than a yard beyond the line. That one “long” throw was less than 10 yards downfield. The Packers and Hundley had no desire to pass the ball downfield, and good luck winning that way. The only time the Packers got anything going downfield was in the no-huddle offense as they were desperately trying to catch up. Maybe Green Bay needs to go with that full time.


It was over before it even began

[pbmax]

Is it just me or are teams with back-up quarterbacks still able to score a little bit and pass the ball down the field at all? I am not exaggerating or being disenguous when I say that I think Nelson is just really slow and a possession receiver, Adams doesn't have any speed or separation, and Randall is just too small and more quick than fast. The same problem we had in 2015 seems to still exist.

I'm not sure if it's a speed thing, or just a play calling thing, or how people are playing us. Ultimately our passing game is lackluster and it doesn't seem like our receivers ever break free and get some space. I can't remember the last time we caught a crossing route in stride.

A lot of teams have limited backups and end up with very short passing games. Its one of the reasons X and O Twitter is screaming about the stupidity of not signing Kaepernick.

However, even if the backup is capable, unless he has started before, the offense will need to change, even if the QB "knows" the offense. These guys aren't clones and run highly tailored schemes. So signing CK or running with an untested backup means there will be a few weeks of bad offense while they figure it out.

Unless you are the Patriots and have it all schemed out already.

[denverYooper]

I'm sure 82 caught one pass

Kendricks had 2 catches.

[mraynrand]

It was a pussified effort. By the game planning and the execution. Who really stepped up and played with aggressive passion? Nelson looked like a fool on two plays where he could have draw interference penalties, because he was a pussy. Daniels looked like a fool because he got aggressive for no reason when they actually forced a three and out. He's a head-butting pussy too. But the biggest pussy was Stubby, with a total fail of a concept from the start. Imagine what the players were thinking: We're gonna run a bunch of plays, but never really get the ball in the hands of our three WRs down the field. Just tight-assed fail coaching. At least go for the gusto. Maybe you get sacked. Maybe you throw a few INTs. But at least the team will know you're trying. Oh and Clay Matthews looked like the biggest pussy of all. Because he's supposed to be a team leader, and he was totally ineffective. And if you're gonna go max blitz, teach your corners to plaster and hold - hell, maybe they get away with a few - Slay sure does. But they won't touch receivers because they've been taught to cover like pussies.

[Gotarace]

It was a pussified effort. By the game planning and the execution. Who really stepped up and played with aggressive passion? Nelson looked like a fool on two plays where he could have draw interference penalties, because he was a pussy. Daniels looked like a fool because he got aggressive for no reason when they actually forced a three and out. He's a head-butting pussy too. But the biggest pussy was Stubby, with a total fail of a concept from the start. Imagine what the players were thinking: We're gonna run a bunch of plays, but never really get the ball in the hands of our three WRs down the field. Just tight-assed fail coaching. At least go for the gusto. Maybe you get sacked. Maybe you throw a few INTs. But at least the team will know you're trying. Oh and Clay Matthews looked like the biggest pussy of all. Because he's supposed to be a team leader, and he was totally ineffective. And if you're gonna go max blitz, teach your corners to plaster and hold - hell, maybe they get away with a few - Slay sure does. But they won't touch receivers because they've been taught to cover like pussies.
Everybody likes Pussy but that is more pussy than most guys can handle.

[Pugger]

TEs had zero catches. Didn't Rick Rod play with Hundley in preseason and have some success?

Lenny Pipkins got the slot job after Randall went out. Randall did come back in. Rollins nowhere to be seen. Hawkins was outside when King got evaluated. King returned.

Rollins is on IR.

[Pugger]

so much for fuckdoggles. We can't even manage a dogfuckle.

Didn't Biegel force a fumble?

[Pugger]

It was a pussified effort. By the game planning and the execution. Who really stepped up and played with aggressive passion? Nelson looked like a fool on two plays where he could have draw interference penalties, because he was a pussy. Daniels looked like a fool because he got aggressive for no reason when they actually forced a three and out. He's a head-butting pussy too. But the biggest pussy was Stubby, with a total fail of a concept from the start. Imagine what the players were thinking: We're gonna run a bunch of plays, but never really get the ball in the hands of our three WRs down the field. Just tight-assed fail coaching. At least go for the gusto. Maybe you get sacked. Maybe you throw a few INTs. But at least the team will know you're trying. Oh and Clay Matthews looked like the biggest pussy of all. Because he's supposed to be a team leader, and he was totally ineffective. And if you're gonna go max blitz, teach your corners to plaster and hold - hell, maybe they get away with a few - Slay sure does. But they won't touch receivers because they've been taught to cover like pussies.

No DB can stick with a receiver when the QB has all day to sit in the pocket.

Our WRs have had issues getting separation for years but #12 is one of the few QBs alive who can throw guys open like he does. Is it the players or how they are coached the reason our guys are never open?

[Pugger]

The articles have started. https://sports.yahoo.com/packers-unwatchable-without-aaron-rodgers-042255149.html

Unfortunately the author of this article is correct. We are unwatchable without #12 but I'm hoping this mess will force changes this offseason.

[Zool]

No DB can stick with a receiver when the QB has all day to sit in the pocket.

Our WRs have had issues getting separation for years but #12 is one of the few QBs alive who can throw guys open like he does. Is it the players or how they are coached the reason our guys are never open?

The double post route detailed by Chucky showed a lot. They seem to have a bunch set and run 2 guys off to clear a zone. If the third guy doesn’t beat his man, the play is lost. The WR either can’t get open on their own or something is amiss in the scheme.

[channtheman]

Stafford is an amazing player but what is with the defense? Can they get a stop at all? No pass rush, no coverage.

What's with the receivers and routes they run? I feel like our best receiver is the #3 in Detroit. I would take Golden Tate and Marvin Jones over all three of ours. Am I the only one?

Why are the Lion receivers always running free across the middle and our guys are super blanketed? WTF!

You have to be careful with the conclusions you draw about other teams offenses when you only see them play against the Packers D. We make average/bad QB's and WR's look like all stars.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I posted this a week or so ago. Now put it in the context of last night's game...

BRETT HUNDLEY

From 2015 NFL Draft Tracker:

Weaknesses
Hasn't shown an ability to win from the pocket yet. Protected by play action-based short passing game that held linebackers and cornerbacks at bay. Internal clock is a mess. Has marginal anticipation, and appears to be lacking in ability to read defenses and create a pre-snap plan. Slow getting through progressions, taking 125 sacks in three years. Inconsistent weight transfer on throws, which affects accuracy (throws sail) and velocity. Needs to reset feet when swiveling from side to side while scanning for next target. Gets crowded in pocket rather than sliding to open space. Short-arms too many throws. Ineffective, inaccurate passer outside of pocket with lowest completion percentage in Pac-12 when scrambling (32.6 percent). Misses opportunities to climb pocket while keeping eyes downfield rather than taking off as a runner.

Draft Projection Round 4 or 5

Sources Tell Us
"Someone will draft him, but I don't think he will ever be a starter. He can't read coverages and struggles to process. It is going to take a few years before he looks like a backup in my opinion. He has a long way to go." -- AFC area scout

NFL Comparison Jason Campbell

Bottom Line
Hundley flashes athleticism and talent, but his basic quarterbacking issues will take time to improve. In 2014, more than 54 percent of his pass attempts were from six yards and in, including 29 percent from behind the line of scrimmage, which is nothing like an NFL offense. Hundley is a "flash" prospect who shows the physical tools to be a starter, but his internal clock and issues with reads and progressions must be improved to give him a shot at becoming a decent NFL starter.


Jason Wilde @jasonjwilde 2m2 minutes ago
McCarthy on Hundley, continued: "He’s got what it takes. He has it in his body, he has it in his mind and he definitely has the heart."

Jason Wilde‏Verified account @jasonjwilde 5m5 minutes ago
#Packers coach Mike McCarthy on Brett Hundley: "I have great faith in Brett Hundley. Brett Hundley is not our issue right now."

Stubby!!!...You gotta love him. LOL

[pbmax]

I buy that the early game plan was a bunch of easy throws to get the kid comfortable. The first drive was OK.

But the transition to whatever else was in the game plan was horrible until the 2 minute drive at the half.

And that 2 minute drive should tell M3 what his QB likes to do more than the first drive.

[mraynrand]

Is it the players or how they are coached the reason our guys are never open?

yes.

It may be that the offense became so tuned to Rodger's special skill set, that it's just going to take considerable time to adjust it for someone else. The Coaches obviously know this because they went to the dink and dunk game (as Maxi points out, because this is Hundley's 'strength'). But that path quickly died because the other team has a defense and adjusted. They're going to have to go to another plan with route combinations that get WRs open. Receivers are going to have to learn to compete for the ball instead of catching perfect back shoulder or sideline fades/combacks or getting third opportunity passes as they sit down in a zone or open spot vacated by defenders pursuing Rodgers avoiding the pass rush for 6 second.

If they can't improve O-line play so that they can run the ball and get real play-action opportunities, they are totally finished. The O-line was awful last night.

[pbmax]

Silverstein in JSO: http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/11/07/silverstein-packers-ill-prepared-match-up-lions/837404001/


“They line up, motion, check, check,” cornerback Davon House said. “When we were in man or zero, they’d see what we were doing.

“They did a good job of self-scouting us. They did their homework, too.”


A defense like that needs a pass rush and its not getting it.

[Maxie the Taxi]

yes.

It may be that the offense became so tuned to Rodger's special skill set, that it's just going to take considerable time to adjust it for someone else. The Coaches obviously know this because they went to the dink and dunk game (as Maxi points out, because this is Hundley's 'strength'). But that path quickly died because the other team has a defense and adjusted. They're going to have to go to another plan with route combinations that get WRs open. Receivers are going to have to learn to compete for the ball instead of catching perfect back shoulder or sideline fades/combacks or getting third opportunity passes as they sit down in a zone or open spot vacated by defenders pursuing Rodgers avoiding the pass rush for 6 second.

If they can't improve O-line play so that they can run the ball and get real play-action opportunities, they are totally finished. The O-line was awful last night.

I really do think that Hundley has a problem avoiding the rush while keeping his eyes downfield. Arod is a master of this. Maybe Hundley will improve with experience. But right now, he's still a mess. How many times last night did Hundley scramble to buy time only to unload the ball to a receiver at or behind the line of scrimmage? Did Cobb, Nelson and Adams stop moving? Or was Hundley just unable to find them? I think it was the latter. Some QB's have a knack for it (Russell Wilson, Arod); some don't.

It's too bad we lost Taysom Hill. That kid had the knack. So does Callahan. Hundley not so much. And with our O-line, the QB extending plays and throwing downfield is a big part of our game.

Hundley is Packer people, a real quality lad. I think this plays a part in Stubby and company desperately wanting him to succeed.

[pbmax]

^ Hundley's scouting report may say he likes the short throws best. But he looked plenty willing to fire in the middle of the field during the 2 minute drills. Some of that may be the defense, but some of those plays were also against man coverage.

The problem was there wasn't anything else after the opening drive.

I do agree his biggest problem was re-setting after sensing pressure. He had one pocket where he could have jumped forward two steps to but time. Instead he bailed and lost Bulaga's protection.

[Maxie the Taxi]

^ Hundley's scouting report may say he likes the short throws best. But he looked plenty willing to fire in the middle of the field during the 2 minute drills. Some of that may be the defense, but some of those plays were also against man coverage.

The problem was there wasn't anything else after the opening drive.

I do agree his biggest problem was re-setting after sensing pressure. He had one pocket where he could have jumped forward two steps to but time. Instead he bailed and lost Bulaga's protection.Old habits die hard. There was a reason he stuck around till the 5th round. Maybe TT felt that Stubby could drum some of his bad habits out of him and they'd found a diamond in the rough. We'll find out over the second half of the season 'cause I don't think they'll give up on him.

[Fritz]

Can MM let Hundley throw a pass down the field more than once or twice in a half?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Can MM let Hundley throw a pass down the field more than once or twice in a half?Be careful what you wish for. LOL

[pbmax]

Wasn't all the coach's play calling: http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/football/professional/tom-oates-green-bay-packers-fail-test-against-detroit-lions/article_84970c9b-7017-5e24-bd9c-93a93791587c.html


McCarthy's approach was curious as well. Much like the Saints game, Hundley was reduced to throwing short, safe passes, mostly screens and passes to the flat. Hundley said downfield passes were called but weren't available. Still, it wasn't until the second half that he completed a pass with a throw that carried 10 or more yards down the field, a big reason Green Bay was 2-for-9 on third-down conversions.

[Fritz]

Be careful what you wish for. LOL

At this point, Maxie, what's the difference? The defense is a sieve. Let's see what Hundley's got - or not got.

I'm really sour on this team, this defensive coordinator, and maybe even the HC. And beyond that, maybe TT's getting stale, too. I dunno. Maybe the ship will right to some extent, but that looked like a really lousy, unprepared effort given they were coming off a bye.

[Maxie the Taxi]

At this point, Maxie, what's the difference? The defense is a sieve. Let's see what Hundley's got - or not got.

I'm really sour on this team, this defensive coordinator, and maybe even the HC. And beyond that, maybe TT's getting stale, too. I dunno. Maybe the ship will right to some extent, but that looked like a really lousy, unprepared effort given they were coming off a bye.I'm in the same boat as you believe me. I guess I'm just more sour on what Hundley's "not got." At this point I'd rather see Callahan play. At least it would make the game less boring.

[mraynrand]

The defense is a sieve.

It's more like an organized retreat, like the retreat to the 38th parallel following the Battle of the Ch'ongch'on River.

[ThunderDan]

Got back from the game late last night. Here are my impressions.

1. I don't know why the opposing team has a punter on the active roster when they play the Packers. You are wasting a roster slot.
2. Daniels may be the defensive leader but that is twice already this year on the opening drive that the D has gotten a stop on 3rd down and he gets a roughing call. A leader doesn't do that. Daniels got chewed out on the bench after that series.
3. Capers needs to go. He might have a great scheme and all, but team after team does the same thing. Run the WRs deep or up the field and let the slot WR, TE or RB run across the middle. Every team does the same thing. You need to change it up.
4. Hundley did well for his 2nd start when he was allowed to throw the ball down the field. That long ball to Adams was a dart that reminded me of ARod. The ball didn't get more that 15 feet above the ground. If he puts just a touch more air on that Adams gets more than his finger tips on the ball.
5. Too much throwing the ball behind the line of scrimmage and too many misdirection runs with a crossing WR or in motion RB. That 4th down Cobb run was a perfect example.
6. The DET CBs didn't respect the Packer WRs. They played mostly tight and the refs let them grab and bump and hand fight. We had more success when we ran quick slants and crossing routes when the D didn't have time to grab and clutch.

[pbmax]

It's more like an organized retreat, like the retreat to the 38th parallel following the Battle of the Ch'ongch'on River.

That's the terrible irony. With Burnett out there, this is the best coordinated backfield in a while (Randall's brain farts aside). So they aren't getting beat deep.

But they are getting gashed underneath way too easily.

This has been going on since Kurt Warner tore them apart years ago against what we thought was a rebuilt unit.

You cannot survive that way without pass rush.

If there is an argument for the entire staff to get the boot, its that they have become WAY too Stubby. That is Belichick's advantage each game.

[pbmax]

Hundley's adjusted net yards per attempt was about 6.5. That's not HoF or even player of the week. But its borderline functional.

If they can extract a 4 quarter offense from the first drive and the 2 minute drills, he might be able to do this. Time and experience will give him some more pocket awareness.

[mraynrand]

That's the terrible irony. With Burnett out there, this is the best coordinated backfield in a while (Randall's brain farts aside). So they aren't getting beat deep.

But they are getting gashed underneath way too easily.

This has been going on since Kurt Warner tore them apart years ago against what we thought was a rebuilt unit.

You cannot survive that way without pass rush.

If there is an argument for the entire staff to get the boot, its that they have become WAY too Stubby. That is Belichick's advantage each game.

yeah, they check if it's man, then they run crossing routes. With no pressure they wait until crosser is open. If it's zone, they have time for receivers to find the holes and then throw. It all works because no one is in the QBs face.

[Maxie the Taxi]

If there is an argument for the entire staff to get the boot, its that they have become WAY too Stubby. That is Belichick's advantage each game.HEAR! HEAR!

[bobblehead]

The decline of Clay Matthews is awful to watch. I bet he looks even worse on review too.

I think you all over estimated clay early on when defenses were adjusting to him. I recall you and I had a couple conversations where I told you Kampman was a better football player and Clay would never get the sacks kampman did. (yes, you can bring up Allen Babre now).

[mraynrand]

6. The DET CBs didn't respect the Packer WRs. They played mostly tight and the refs let them grab and bump and hand fight. We had more success when we ran quick slants and crossing routes when the D didn't have time to grab and clutch.

Packer WRs seem to be upset that the DBs actually touch them. Instead of hand checking back and fighting through them, they seem more likely to try and avoid contact, which blows up timing and never draws penalties. Man up.

[mraynrand]

I think you all over estimated clay early on when defenses were adjusting to him. I recall you and I had a couple conversations where I told you Kampman was a better football player and Clay would never get the sacks kampman did. (yes, you can bring up Allen Babre now).

Kampman had his limitations too, and injuries finished him. There's something wrong with Matthews though, beyond adjustments. Maybe he's just aged out or he doesn't care anymore. He looks gassed half the time and he refuses contact a lot. Maybe getting hurt all the time got to him too. I was going to go back and look at the games in review. I bet he'll look even worse.

[bobblehead]

Got back from the game late last night. Here are my impressions.

6. The DET CBs didn't respect the Packer WRs. They played mostly tight and the refs let them grab and bump and hand fight. We had more success when we ran quick slants and crossing routes when the D didn't have time to grab and clutch.

Also been a gripe of mine. I can't say weather its called equal or not cuz our guys don't really try, but our WR get mugged quite a bit with no flag. Bumped off routes, hand on waist restricting turns.

[bobblehead]

Got back from the game late last night. Here are my impressions.

6. The DET CBs didn't respect the Packer WRs. They played mostly tight and the refs let them grab and bump and hand fight. We had more success when we ran quick slants and crossing routes when the D didn't have time to grab and clutch.

Also been a gripe of mine. I can't say weather its called equal or not cuz our guys don't really try, but our WR get mugged quite a bit with no flag. Bumped off routes, hand on waist restricting turns.

[call_me_ishmael]

Kampman had his limitations too, and injuries finished him. There's something wrong with Matthews though, beyond adjustments. Maybe he's just aged out or he doesn't care anymore. He looks gassed half the time and he refuses contact a lot. Maybe getting hurt all the time got to him too. I was going to go back and look at the games in review. I bet he'll look even worse.

PEDs. I'm not even a little bit joking. Yes, he's still huge, but there is more to PEDs than size and strength.

Deep down I think everyone loses a little motivation to keep banging their head into others play after play after they get paid big bucks.

[Harlan Huckleby]

My impression from last night is that packers are a below average team everywhere and Detroit is a formidable team when Stafford is hot.

[Carolina_Packer]

Its easier to see defense's holes even when Rodgers was playing. But the holes in offense, for me, are easier to see now.

However, the final state of the offense won't be decided until the coach and the QB have to decide what they are going to do on offense. After this game, I think it means no huddle and lots of Monty not Jones.

Not that Green Bay has ever been accused of being a running team under McCarthy, but I was wondering if they would try and establish the run more once Hundley became the starter. Use the run to setup play action and then take your chances down the field on play action. Nope. This isn't second-guessing, just wondering out loud. I wonder if McCarthy ever thought about taking pressure off of Hundley by becoming more of a run first team when A-Rod went down. If you don't really run the ball, even with Hundley in there, aren't you limiting your offense and asking Hundley to replicate A-Rod's efforts to some extent? The approach seems a bit forced or hard-headed.

[Joemailman]

Not that Green Bay has ever been accused of being a running team under McCarthy, but I was wondering if they would try and establish the run more once Hundley became the starter. Use the run to setup play action and then take your chances down the field on play action. Nope. This isn't second-guessing, just wondering out loud. I wonder if McCarthy ever thought about taking pressure off of Hundley by becoming more of a run first team when A-Rod went down. If you don't really run the ball, even with Hundley in there, aren't you limiting your offense and asking Hundley to replicate A-Rod's efforts to some extent? The approach seems a bit forced or hard-headed.

They initially had some running success against New Orleans. However, it becomes harder to run the ball when the opposing defense isn't worried about you throwing the ball more than 10 yards downfield.

[Harlan Huckleby]

They initially had some running success against New Orleans. However, it becomes harder to run the ball when the opposing defense isn't worried about you throwing the ball more than 10 yards downfield.
Agreed.
My mind went kind of numb last night. Play calling seemed to be the least of their problems. Hundley just can't throw accurately on medium or long passes, so I didn't really expect anything to work.
My talk of replacing Hundley with Lil Joe Callahan has been a joke. But maybe it isn't terrible idea.

[woodbuck27]

TEs had zero catches. Didn't Rick Rod play with Hundley in preseason and have some success?

Lenny Pipkins got the slot job after Randall went out. Randall did come back in. Rollins nowhere to be seen. Hawkins was outside when King got evaluated. King returned.

TE Richard Rodgers made a catch on a pass left for 5 yards.

TE Lance Kendricks made 2 Receptions for 32 Yards and a long of 21 Yards.

[Smidgeon]

I really do think that Hundley has a problem avoiding the rush while keeping his eyes downfield. Arod is a master of this. Maybe Hundley will improve with experience. But right now, he's still a mess. How many times last night did Hundley scramble to buy time only to unload the ball to a receiver at or behind the line of scrimmage? Did Cobb, Nelson and Adams stop moving? Or was Hundley just unable to find them? I think it was the latter. Some QB's have a knack for it (Russell Wilson, Arod); some don't.

It's too bad we lost Taysom Hill. That kid had the knack. So does Callahan. Hundley not so much. And with our O-line, the QB extending plays and throwing downfield is a big part of our game.

Hundley is Packer people, a real quality lad. I think this plays a part in Stubby and company desperately wanting him to succeed.

Hundley had more knack than either Callahan or Hill in the preseason two years ago. The truth is you don't know this and you can't know this until they're running against the starters in a regular season game.

This game is tough, and sure there are some gaps and improvements that need to be made. But this offense was a step up versus the one against the Saints (except for Aaron Jones). It isn't a tire fire. Just a lot of overreactions. The D...now that's another story.

[Smidgeon]

Not that Green Bay has ever been accused of being a running team under McCarthy, but I was wondering if they would try and establish the run more once Hundley became the starter. Use the run to setup play action and then take your chances down the field on play action. Nope. This isn't second-guessing, just wondering out loud. I wonder if McCarthy ever thought about taking pressure off of Hundley by becoming more of a run first team when A-Rod went down. If you don't really run the ball, even with Hundley in there, aren't you limiting your offense and asking Hundley to replicate A-Rod's efforts to some extent? The approach seems a bit forced or hard-headed.

I bet it was one of the first things that crossed his mind. The last time Rodgers went down, they rode Eddie Lacy to the last game of the season. This year, they have another hot hand. Except he couldn't do anything against a stacked box in this game.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Hundley had more knack than either Callahan or Hill in the preseason two years ago. The truth is you don't know this and you can't know this until they're running against the starters in a regular season game.

This game is tough, and sure there are some gaps and improvements that need to be made. But this offense was a step up versus the one against the Saints (except for Aaron Jones). It isn't a tire fire. Just a lot of overreactions. The D...now that's another story.Maybe I'm wrong about Callahan and Hill, but not about Hundley. Not from what I saw the last two weeks. And yeah, considering it was a home game after a bye week against Detroit, it's pretty much a tire fire.

[Smidgeon]

I watched the game late last night.
My thoughts on the game:

1. It looked like Jones got away with a minor OPI on Detroit's first TD.
2. On the second punt, Janis's speed was evident. That boy can fly. Too bad he can't catch.
3. The first half did not look like a good game for Aaron Jones, Blake Martinez, or Kenny Clark. Of course, they could've been playing fine, but none of them jumped off the screen like they've been doing all year. Only Martinez started flashing in the second half, but still subpar vs prior games.
4. Back to back non calls of obvious DPIs against Slay after the fumble. Those were both terrible. I qualify that by imagining if the situations were reversed (i.e. GB defending). If I saw Randall doing that, I'd've been furious he caused us those penalties.
5. Stafford was pinpoint tonight. It was a very accurate night for him. He completed so many passes in really tight coverage.
5. When Hundley started throwing the ball down the field, he made some good passes. Too bad the D couldn't help him.

And to those who are complaining about the tire fire on defense, the only thing missing is pass rush. It's vastly superior than the years when the Packers couldn't even stop Fritz's grandma from running wild (God rest her soul). Maybe Capers isn't the answer. I don't know, but I suspect people are just tired of the devil they know and assume the devil they don't know will be better. The run defense is more consistent, the defensive backs are young and improving (Randall has been consistent since his benching, King flashes enough to think he's Big Time, Jones just needs seasoning).

I suspect next week the offense will be even better. The last time Rodgers was out for an extended period, the Packers didn't win for five weeks. They went from 5-2 to 5-6-1. This time they don't have their backup out for the season after one series, they're third string is still on the bench, and they don't have to go to a retread (yet) to show an offense that can move the ball. They just need consistency which requires experience to build.

The biggest disappointment to me was the absence of Aaron Jones. Can he not run it against a stacked box at all? Monty did more than him, but Monty has demonstrated he is not as skilled in space. Maybe timing of opportunities.

[Pugger]

yes.

It may be that the offense became so tuned to Rodger's special skill set, that it's just going to take considerable time to adjust it for someone else. The Coaches obviously know this because they went to the dink and dunk game (as Maxi points out, because this is Hundley's 'strength'). But that path quickly died because the other team has a defense and adjusted. They're going to have to go to another plan with route combinations that get WRs open. Receivers are going to have to learn to compete for the ball instead of catching perfect back shoulder or sideline fades/combacks or getting third opportunity passes as they sit down in a zone or open spot vacated by defenders pursuing Rodgers avoiding the pass rush for 6 second.

If they can't improve O-line play so that they can run the ball and get real play-action opportunities, they are totally finished. The O-line was awful last night.

If our WRs can finally learn how to compete for the ball and get separation so our QB doesn't have to hang onto the ball forever imagine what they'll be able to do when Godgers comes back in 2018. :-)

[Smidgeon]

Maybe I'm wrong about Callahan and Hill, but not about Hundley. Not from what I saw the last two weeks. And yeah, considering it was a home game after a bye week against Detroit, it's pretty much a tire fire.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Callahan and Hill would be so much worse against starting NFL talent. Hundley was a fifth round pick. Even with a bye week to prepare, he needs game experience to elevate to mimicking a full time starter.

You're being impatient if you thought Hundley would be all world within two and a half games. So no, not a tire fire. They're still figuring out what works. And when he started pushing the ball down the field (2 minute drill & second half), he showed good ball placement and such. The D couldn't help him though. Not in this game.

[Pugger]

Old habits die hard. There was a reason he stuck around till the 5th round. Maybe TT felt that Stubby could drum some of his bad habits out of him and they'd found a diamond in the rough. We'll find out over the second half of the season 'cause I don't think they'll give up on him.

I think you may have hit upon the truth here. They probably did think Mike could make a silk purse out of sow's ear like he did with Flynn. It isn't a mortal sin that a QB we picked in the 5th round isn't the second coming of Russell Wilson. If Hundley was a higher pick then this might be a major mistake. Brett might be one of those players who looks better at practice than he does in games.

[woodbuck27]

Why did Aaron Jones disappear last night?

Rushing ATT YDS TD LG

T. Montgomery 5 33 0 9
B. Hundley 4 22 1 12

A. Jones 5 12 0 4

T. Davis 1 9 0 9
R. Cobb 1 1 0 1
J. Williams 1 1 1 1T

Was it because he missed a BLOCK?

[Pugger]

At this point, Maxie, what's the difference? The defense is a sieve. Let's see what Hundley's got - or not got.

I'm really sour on this team, this defensive coordinator, and maybe even the HC. And beyond that, maybe TT's getting stale, too. I dunno. Maybe the ship will right to some extent, but that looked like a really lousy, unprepared effort given they were coming off a bye.

I'm not down on Stubby just yet. It isn't easy to have a functional offense with a QB who has issues reading defenses. Last night we had everyone back on offense but #12 so if things aren't working it has to be that position.

[woodbuck27]

Packer Nation Sings:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anjT71N4PGM

[Pugger]

Got back from the game late last night. Here are my impressions.

1. I don't know why the opposing team has a punter on the active roster when they play the Packers. You are wasting a roster slot.
2. Daniels may be the defensive leader but that is twice already this year on the opening drive that the D has gotten a stop on 3rd down and he gets a roughing call. A leader doesn't do that. Daniels got chewed out on the bench after that series.
3. Capers needs to go. He might have a great scheme and all, but team after team does the same thing. Run the WRs deep or up the field and let the slot WR, TE or RB run across the middle. Every team does the same thing. You need to change it up.
4. Hundley did well for his 2nd start when he was allowed to throw the ball down the field. That long ball to Adams was a dart that reminded me of ARod. The ball didn't get more that 15 feet above the ground. If he puts just a touch more air on that Adams gets more than his finger tips on the ball.
5. Too much throwing the ball behind the line of scrimmage and too many misdirection runs with a crossing WR or in motion RB. That 4th down Cobb run was a perfect example.
6. The DET CBs didn't respect the Packer WRs. They played mostly tight and the refs let them grab and bump and hand fight. We had more success when we ran quick slants and crossing routes when the D didn't have time to grab and clutch.

I wonder why DBs can get away with that when they play us and if our DBs sneeze on a WR flags fly? I don't care what the officials call as long as they call it the same for both sides.

[Pugger]

Packer WRs seem to be upset that the DBs actually touch them. Instead of hand checking back and fighting through them, they seem more likely to try and avoid contact, which blows up timing and never draws penalties. Man up.

Could our WRs lack of going after the ball and fighting thru all that be a coaching issue?

[Maxie the Taxi]

You're comparing apples to oranges. Callahan and Hill would be so much worse against starting NFL talent. Hundley was a fifth round pick. Even with a bye week to prepare, he needs game experience to elevate to mimicking a full time starter.

You're being impatient if you thought Hundley would be all world within two and a half games. So no, not a tire fire. They're still figuring out what works. And when he started pushing the ball down the field (2 minute drill & second half), he showed good ball placement and such. The D couldn't help him though. Not in this game.You predicting something better next Sunday at Soldier Field? I say the tire fire will still be burning and Trubisky outplays Hundley. :grin:

[Pugger]

My impression from last night is that packers are a below average team everywhere and Detroit is a formidable team when Stafford is hot.

Any competent QB is gonna look like a world beater if he isn't touched or pressed.

[woodbuck27]

Any competent QB is gonna look like a world beater if he isn't touched or pressed.

The LIONS Big Issue is simply taking that otherwise solid Offense and getting it done in 'the Red Zone'.

[Pugger]

My impression from last night is that packers are a below average team everywhere and Detroit is a formidable team when Stafford is hot.

Any competent QB is gonna look like a world beater if he isn't touched or pressed.

[Smidgeon]

You predicting something better next Sunday at Soldier Field? I say the tire fire will still be burning and Trubisky outplays Hundley. :grin:

Yes. I predict the offense will look better next week. Even the Packers offense with Rodgers looks that bad sometimes (the first half reminded me a lot of late 2015/early 2016). I don't think the D is as bad overall as many people on here claim. I think they had a bad game. I don't think the O is as permanently bad as it appeared yesterday. I think Hundley will keep improving, but yesterday was not all on him. Far from it.

Trubisky might outplay Hundley (Top 5 pick vs Round 5 pick), but we'll see (I haven't watched any Bears games, so I have no idea how quickly Trubi is picking up the NFL pace).

[Pugger]

Maybe I'm wrong about Callahan and Hill, but not about Hundley. Not from what I saw the last two weeks. And yeah, considering it was a home game after a bye week against Detroit, it's pretty much a tire fire.

I liked Hill better than Callahan and Hill is on the Saint's active roster, unfortunately.

[beveaux1]

I watched the game late last night.
My thoughts on the game:

1. It looked like Jones got away with a minor OPI on Detroit's first TD.
2. On the second punt, Janis's speed was evident. That boy can fly. Too bad he can't catch.
3. The first half did not look like a good game for Aaron Jones, Blake Martinez, or Kenny Clark. Of course, they could've been playing fine, but none of them jumped off the screen like they've been doing all year. Only Martinez started flashing in the second half, but still subpar vs prior games.
4. Back to back non calls of obvious DPIs against Slay after the fumble. Those were both terrible. I qualify that by imagining if the situations were reversed (i.e. GB defending). If I saw Randall doing that, I'd've been furious he caused us those penalties.
5. Stafford was pinpoint tonight. It was a very accurate night for him. He completed so many passes in really tight coverage.
5. When Hundley started throwing the ball down the field, he made some good passes. Too bad the D couldn't help him.

And to those who are complaining about the tire fire on defense, the only thing missing is pass rush. It's vastly superior than the years when the Packers couldn't even stop Fritz's grandma from running wild (God rest her soul). Maybe Capers isn't the answer. I don't know, but I suspect people are just tired of the devil they know and assume the devil they don't know will be better. The run defense is more consistent, the defensive backs are young and improving (Randall has been consistent since his benching, King flashes enough to think he's Big Time, Jones just needs seasoning).

I suspect next week the offense will be even better. The last time Rodgers was out for an extended period, the Packers didn't win for five weeks. They went from 5-2 to 5-6-1. This time they don't have their backup out for the season after one series, they're third string is still on the bench, and they don't have to go to a retread (yet) to show an offense that can move the ball. They just need consistency which requires experience to build.

The biggest disappointment to me was the absence of Aaron Jones. Can he not run it against a stacked box at all? Monty did more than him, but Monty has demonstrated he is not as skilled in space. Maybe timing of opportunities.

I, too, see the same thing you do on defense. Our run D is decent, our coverage is much better than last year, but our pass rush is hopeless. The best outside pass rusher we have is Matthews and he only comes to play a couple of times a game. Perry has shown next to nothing rushing, although he is a good run defender. Fackrell's number is never called. Brooks may have been the best edge rusher, but he's only played a couple of games after having very little injury history.

I'm not even seeing a push from the inside. Last year, Jones, Pepper, and Daniels got some inside rush and pushed the pocket a little allowing Perry and Matthews to pick up sacks. This year, Daniels, Clark, and Lowry get very little push although they play the run well.

I suspect that the lack of inside pressure is the biggest difference in our pass rush.

[ThunderDan]

Yes. I predict the offense will look better next week. Even the Packers offense with Rodgers looks that bad sometimes (the first half reminded me a lot of late 2015/early 2016). I don't think the D is as bad overall as many people on here claim. I think they had a bad game. I don't think the O is as permanently bad as it appeared yesterday. I think Hundley will keep improving, but yesterday was not all on him. Far from it.

Trubisky might outplay Hundley (Top 5 pick vs Round 5 pick), but we'll see (I haven't watched any Bears games, so I have no idea how quickly Trubi is picking up the NFL pace).

Just thinking of the games we saw at Lambeau this year. The first half of the CIN game and the first half of the DET the offensive production was about the same. The Packers got booed off the field at halftime against CIN.

[Smidgeon]

I watched the game late last night.
My thoughts on the game:

1. It looked like Jones got away with a minor OPI on Detroit's first TD.
2. On the second punt, Janis's speed was evident. That boy can fly. Too bad he can't catch.
3. The first half did not look like a good game for Aaron Jones, Blake Martinez, or Kenny Clark. Of course, they could've been playing fine, but none of them jumped off the screen like they've been doing all year. Only Martinez started flashing in the second half, but still subpar vs prior games.
4. Back to back non calls of obvious DPIs against Slay after the fumble. Those were both terrible. I qualify that by imagining if the situations were reversed (i.e. GB defending). If I saw Randall doing that, I'd've been furious he caused us those penalties.
5. Stafford was pinpoint tonight. It was a very accurate night for him. He completed so many passes in really tight coverage.
5. When Hundley started throwing the ball down the field, he made some good passes. Too bad the D couldn't help him.

And to those who are complaining about the tire fire on defense, the only thing missing is pass rush. It's vastly superior than the years when the Packers couldn't even stop Fritz's grandma from running wild (God rest her soul). Maybe Capers isn't the answer. I don't know, but I suspect people are just tired of the devil they know and assume the devil they don't know will be better. The run defense is more consistent, the defensive backs are young and improving (Randall has been consistent since his benching, King flashes enough to think he's Big Time, Jones just needs seasoning).

I suspect next week the offense will be even better. The last time Rodgers was out for an extended period, the Packers didn't win for five weeks. They went from 5-2 to 5-6-1. This time they don't have their backup out for the season after one series, they're third string is still on the bench, and they don't have to go to a retread (yet) to show an offense that can move the ball. They just need consistency which requires experience to build.

The biggest disappointment to me was the absence of Aaron Jones. Can he not run it against a stacked box at all? Monty did more than him, but Monty has demonstrated he is not as skilled in space. Maybe timing of opportunities.

6.
their

[beveaux1]

I watched the game late last night.
My thoughts on the game:

1. It looked like Jones got away with a minor OPI on Detroit's first TD.
2. On the second punt, Janis's speed was evident. That boy can fly. Too bad he can't catch.
3. The first half did not look like a good game for Aaron Jones, Blake Martinez, or Kenny Clark. Of course, they could've been playing fine, but none of them jumped off the screen like they've been doing all year. Only Martinez started flashing in the second half, but still subpar vs prior games.
4. Back to back non calls of obvious DPIs against Slay after the fumble. Those were both terrible. I qualify that by imagining if the situations were reversed (i.e. GB defending). If I saw Randall doing that, I'd've been furious he caused us those penalties.
5. Stafford was pinpoint tonight. It was a very accurate night for him. He completed so many passes in really tight coverage.
5. When Hundley started throwing the ball down the field, he made some good passes. Too bad the D couldn't help him.

And to those who are complaining about the tire fire on defense, the only thing missing is pass rush. It's vastly superior than the years when the Packers couldn't even stop Fritz's grandma from running wild (God rest her soul). Maybe Capers isn't the answer. I don't know, but I suspect people are just tired of the devil they know and assume the devil they don't know will be better. The run defense is more consistent, the defensive backs are young and improving (Randall has been consistent since his benching, King flashes enough to think he's Big Time, Jones just needs seasoning).

I suspect next week the offense will be even better. The last time Rodgers was out for an extended period, the Packers didn't win for five weeks. They went from 5-2 to 5-6-1. This time they don't have their backup out for the season after one series, they're third string is still on the bench, and they don't have to go to a retread (yet) to show an offense that can move the ball. They just need consistency which requires experience to build.

The biggest disappointment to me was the absence of Aaron Jones. Can he not run it against a stacked box at all? Monty did more than him, but Monty has demonstrated he is not as skilled in space. Maybe timing of opportunities.

The offense may well be better next week. The passing attack improved over their last game even though a lot of improvement may have been caused by slack, late game defense on Detroit's part.

I suspect that we'll make a game of it in Chicago. We'll be facing a rookie QB who won't be far along on his progressions and reads, but we'll still have to put some pressure on him. That will be easier said than done. This is much closer to an even match up, although I'd probably say Chicago will be favored because of a better defense and home field.

[beveaux1]

I just don't think we had reasonable expectations for this team after Rodgers went down. We ended last year in the NFC championship game with a defense that had Gunter as our top CB, an aging Peppers as our 2nd leading pass rusher, and one of the most atrocious pass defenses I've ever seen. We couldn't cover ANY receiver with our collection of street CBs and beat-up draft pick CBs.

Drafting at the end of the first round, we made a decision to add speed to our DBs with King and Jones. We took Biegel as a pass rusher and Adams as a DL. We signed House, didn't sign Peppers, and let D. Jones go. I can't remember anybody on this board saying that we needed to keep Peppers and D. Jones. Better to let them leave one year early than one year late. Unfortunately, Biegel and Adams got hurt either before or during training camp.

When it was obvious in training camp that Fackrell and Elliott couldn't replace Peppers, we signed Brooks who was not normally injury prone. Two games into the season, he got injured.

Our CBs have actually covered much better than they did last year, even with the sometimes bone-headed play of King and Randall. King looks like he might turn out to be a player and Randall has definitely improved the past 4 games. House has been steady most of the year. J. Jones has been hot and cold but has shown flashes. Our DBs, with the exception of Dix, looks much improved over last year.

Martinez has taken the jump at ILB and may be the best we've had at that position since Barnett. DL has been steady against the run. Clark looks like a keeper, Lowry has been better than most thought, and Daniels has been great in run D.

We all knew we had a weakness in our pass rush. Maybe we should have taken Watt, but as bad as our secondary was, I don't fault us for taking King. We had two glaring holes to address and our pass rush was much better than our CB play in 2016. I certainly didn't think the loss of Peppers and D. Jones would affect us like it has. Our pass rush makes us a below average to poor defense even with the overall improvement in our DB play.

With this defense and a 5th round QB with little to no experience, how could we reasonably expect to win more than half of our remaining games and stay in the playoff race. I think it would be reasonable for us to play competitively against teams in the same shape we're in...teams that have young, inexperienced QBs and teams that were not built around their defense.

With Rodgers, in a weak NFC, we may have gone to a Super Bowl. This year, without Rodgers, we may have a top 10 draft pick. I think it's unreasonable to think otherwise.

[Smidgeon]

I just don't think we had reasonable expectations for this team after Rodgers went down. We ended last year in the NFC championship game with a defense that had Gunter as our top CB, an aging Peppers as our 2nd leading pass rusher, and one of the most atrocious pass defenses I've ever seen. We couldn't cover ANY receiver with our collection of street CBs and beat-up draft pick CBs.

Drafting at the end of the first round, we made a decision to add speed to our DBs with King and Jones. We took Biegel as a pass rusher and Adams as a DL. We signed House, didn't sign Peppers, and let D. Jones go. I can't remember anybody on this board saying that we needed to keep Peppers and D. Jones. Better to let them leave one year early than one year late. Unfortunately, Biegel and Adams got hurt either before or during training camp.

When it was obvious in training camp that Fackrell and Elliott couldn't replace Peppers, we signed Brooks who was not normally injury prone. Two games into the season, he got injured.

Our CBs have actually covered much better than they did last year, even with the sometimes bone-headed play of King and Randall. King looks like he might turn out to be a player and Randall has definitely improved the past 4 games. House has been steady most of the year. J. Jones has been hot and cold but has shown flashes. Our DBs, with the exception of Dix, looks much improved over last year.

Martinez has taken the jump at ILB and may be the best we've had at that position since Barnett. DL has been steady against the run. Clark looks like a keeper, Lowry has been better than most thought, and Daniels has been great in run D.

We all knew we had a weakness in our pass rush. Maybe we should have taken Watt, but as bad as our secondary was, I don't fault us for taking King. We had two glaring holes to address and our pass rush was much better than our CB play in 2016. I certainly didn't think the loss of Peppers and D. Jones would affect us like it has. Our pass rush makes us a below average to poor defense even with the overall improvement in our DB play.

With this defense and a 5th round QB with little to no experience, how could we reasonably expect to win more than half of our remaining games and stay in the playoff race. I think it would be reasonable for us to play competitively against teams in the same shape we're in...teams that have young, inexperienced QBs and teams that were not built around their defense.

With Rodgers, in a weak NFC, we may have gone to a Super Bowl. This year, without Rodgers, we may have a top 10 draft pick. I think it's unreasonable to think otherwise.

I also don't think it's an indictment against the Packers coaches (or even the GM). It was a bad game, but like I said before, the Packers have those with Rodgers too. And Hundley--though still a work in progress--was not the reason they lost yesterday. Regarding the coaches and GM, let the greater body of work be what they're measured on.

[Teamcheez1]

Burnett already ruled out Sunday against the Bears.

Expect more "communication" issues as receivers run free.

[Rutnstrut]

Why did Aaron Jones disappear last night?

Rushing ATT YDS TD LG

T. Montgomery 5 33 0 9
B. Hundley 4 22 1 12

A. Jones 5 12 0 4

T. Davis 1 9 0 9
R. Cobb 1 1 0 1
J. Williams 1 1 1 1T

Was it because he missed a BLOCK?

The O-line sucked and stubby got nervous and didn't let him get lathered up.

[Rutnstrut]

I also don't think it's an indictment against the Packers coaches (or even the GM). It was a bad game, but like I said before, the Packers have those with Rodgers too. And Hundley--though still a work in progress--was not the reason they lost yesterday. Regarding the coaches and GM, let the greater body of work be what they're measured on.

Wow, you buy the Kool-aid in bulk don't you?

[pbmax]

From PFT:


Unlike the Packers defense, the Green Bay cops actually stopped some people Monday night.


ZING!

[Pugger]

I just don't think we had reasonable expectations for this team after Rodgers went down. We ended last year in the NFC championship game with a defense that had Gunter as our top CB, an aging Peppers as our 2nd leading pass rusher, and one of the most atrocious pass defenses I've ever seen. We couldn't cover ANY receiver with our collection of street CBs and beat-up draft pick CBs.

Drafting at the end of the first round, we made a decision to add speed to our DBs with King and Jones. We took Biegel as a pass rusher and Adams as a DL. We signed House, didn't sign Peppers, and let D. Jones go. I can't remember anybody on this board saying that we needed to keep Peppers and D. Jones. Better to let them leave one year early than one year late. Unfortunately, Biegel and Adams got hurt either before or during training camp.

When it was obvious in training camp that Fackrell and Elliott couldn't replace Peppers, we signed Brooks who was not normally injury prone. Two games into the season, he got injured.

Our CBs have actually covered much better than they did last year, even with the sometimes bone-headed play of King and Randall. King looks like he might turn out to be a player and Randall has definitely improved the past 4 games. House has been steady most of the year. J. Jones has been hot and cold but has shown flashes. Our DBs, with the exception of Dix, looks much improved over last year.

Martinez has taken the jump at ILB and may be the best we've had at that position since Barnett. DL has been steady against the run. Clark looks like a keeper, Lowry has been better than most thought, and Daniels has been great in run D.

We all knew we had a weakness in our pass rush. Maybe we should have taken Watt, but as bad as our secondary was, I don't fault us for taking King. We had two glaring holes to address and our pass rush was much better than our CB play in 2016. I certainly didn't think the loss of Peppers and D. Jones would affect us like it has. Our pass rush makes us a below average to poor defense even with the overall improvement in our DB play.

With this defense and a 5th round QB with little to no experience, how could we reasonably expect to win more than half of our remaining games and stay in the playoff race. I think it would be reasonable for us to play competitively against teams in the same shape we're in...teams that have young, inexperienced QBs and teams that were not built around their defense.

With Rodgers, in a weak NFC, we may have gone to a Super Bowl. This year, without Rodgers, we may have a top 10 draft pick. I think it's unreasonable to think otherwise.

:glug: Another great post!

I agree, having a poor pass rush is what is killing this defense. You can't expect to win many games when you can't force your opposition to punt. Let's hope this lost season isn't all for naught and we can get a real difference maker on the EDGE this spring. Fix that and a lot of our defensive issues disappear. I hope Capers disappears too.

[esoxx]

If only we had realized going in to the season the pass rush needed to be improved. And improved by a lot.

Not exactly groundbreaking stuff here.

[mraynrand]

If only we had realized going in to the season the pass rush needed to be improved. And improved by a lot.

Not exactly groundbreaking stuff here.

OK let's look back. What should have been done differently?

[esoxx]

OK let's look back. What should have been done differently?

The problem is systemic and goes back some time now. The larger point is for any one now just coming to the conclusion our pass rush is anemic and we really need to address that this offseason....well no shit.

[pbmax]

Homegrown pass rush has been very hard to come by. Even Clark and Lowry, who broke the poor big man draft streak, aren't QB hunters.

So you have to find them elsewhere. Fackrell hasn't stepped up and Brooks has been hurt and pedestrian.

I think drafting freaks like Fackrell is the future, Ted went all in on tall, athletic traits on defense this year and KF fits that bill. You keep digging that mine or you tank and get one in the top 8 of the draft.