Studs And Duds - Packers vs. Bears II

[Joemailman]

Studs

Brett Hundley with a strong 2nd half, especially down the stretch. Maybe he's turned a corner.

Jamall Williams - Tough running, especially in the 2nd half. Gave the Packers some balance.

Davante Adams - 5 catches for 90 yards. 1 TD and the catch that sealed the game.

Nick Perry - 6 tackles and 3 sacks.

Mike Daniels - 5 TKL, 1 sack, 2 TFL

Trevor Davis - Nearly a 100 return yards.

Duds

Vogel - Don't drop the snap!

House - Big plays against him today.

[ND72]

Studs

Brett Hundley with a strong 2nd half, especially down the stretch. Maybe he's turned a corner.

Jamall Williams - Tough running, especially in the 2nd half. Gave the Packers some balance.

Davante Adams - 5 catches for 90 yards. 1 TD and the catch that sealed the game.

Nick Perry - 6 tackles and 3 sacks.

Mike Daniels - 5 TKL, 1 sack, 2 TFL

Trevor Davis - Nearly a 100 return yards.

Duds

Vogel - Don't drop the snap!

House - Big plays against him today.

Agree with all of these....hard for me to say Davis though because of his first punt return out of the end zone, but did improve after that.

Hundley played well, confident. Made some mistakes, but even Rodgers wasn't perfect.

Adams did well outside that one bad drop.

Williams ran very well, but I thought they all did. Jones started well, Monty came in and did well, and Williams finished it.

Daniels & Clark played well.

Perry did well.

Seems like Jones is everywhere. Considering we didn't have much to complain about except they obviously were throwing at House in the DBackfield.


Duds-
Going to put McCarthy back here.
#1, I liked the change of having Cobb run some wildcat, just didn't think it was ran well enough.
#2, Flats were open all day, didn't see any adjustment to it until the 4th.
#3, clock management.

[mraynrand]

House deserves the dud, but it's just that he doesn't have any make up speed. He's just limited.

[pbmax]

Ryan Wood, packers news.com, on Jamaal Williams



Williams got his number called more as the second half progressed. Later in the third quarter, he failed to convert a third-and-2 near midfield. McCarthy gave it back to Williams on fourth-and-1, and the rookie broke through the levy to extend a drive that ended with Mason Crosby’s 50-yard field goal.

“Jamaal ran hard and physical,” McCarthy said. “He had hard ball runs, overloaded box runs, 4-3 double edges. He did a heck of a job today to keep the sticks moving. I really liked the way he played.”

[denverYooper]

That 4th down conversion was a nice cutback from Williams.

[bobblehead]

Williams ran very well, but I thought they all did. Jones started well, Monty came in and did well, and Williams finished it.
.

Its almost like who is blocking matters more than who is carrying the rock.

[Guiness]

Have to add Jordi to the studs list. 3 catches for 20 yards doesn't look good on the stat sheet, but I saw at least a couple of blocks and one 'no contact' pick that got the Pack a lot of yards. Montgomery's TD doesn't happen without his block.

[mraynrand]

good point about Jordy. And you won't hear any of the WRs prima donna it up because they aren't getting enough touches. The Turncoat prima donna is in NE.

[Smidgeon]

Agree with all of these....hard for me to say Davis though because of his first punt return out of the end zone, but did improve after that.

Hundley played well, confident. Made some mistakes, but even Rodgers wasn't perfect.

Adams did well outside that one bad drop.

Williams ran very well, but I thought they all did. Jones started well, Monty came in and did well, and Williams finished it.

Daniels & Clark played well.

Perry did well.

Seems like Jones is everywhere. Considering we didn't have much to complain about except they obviously were throwing at House in the DBackfield.


Duds-
Going to put McCarthy back here.
#1, I liked the change of having Cobb run some wildcat, just didn't think it was ran well enough.
#2, Flats were open all day, didn't see any adjustment to it until the 4th.
#3, clock management.

I'm guessing a lot of this is on Hundley. Especially the timeout with five seconds left in the quarter (with 7 on the game clock). No need for a time out after trying to draw them offsides. I'm surprised the announcers didn't catch that.

[RashanGary]

Hundley doesn’t have a noodle arm. It’s between the strength of Flynn and Rodgers. But it’s clearly not a truly live arm. It’s just Ok, sort of like Eli Manning’s always was.

Hundley looks better, but he has his limitations and doesn’t have the special anticipation that would make the limitations disappear.

But he has potential to be a .500 QB and that could be enough to keep us in it till Aaron comes back.

[hoosier]

Hundley doesn’t have a noodle arm. It’s between the strength of Flynn and Rodgers. But it’s clearly not a truly live arm. It’s just Ok, sort of like Eli Manning’s always was.

Hundley looks better, but he has his limitations and doesn’t have the special anticipation that would make the limitations disappear.

But he has potential to be a .500 QB and that could be enough to keep us in it till Aaron comes back.

With the Packer defense, ST and mounting injuries I think they would need better than OK from the QB position in order to tread water until late December.

[pbmax]

His arm isn't fantastic on the move. But its pretty damn strong when set. And I bet his strength and accuracy on the move will get better with more game experience and then more practice going over what did not work in the game.

That TD to Adams was almost too low a throw.

[Joemailman]

With the Packer defense, ST and mounting injuries I think they would need better than OK from the QB position in order to tread water until late December.

One thing they have going for them is the low offensive rank (Yardage) of their upcoming opponents:

Baltimore (30)
Pittsburgh (11)
Tampa Bay (15)
Cleveland (25)
Carolina (26)
Minnesota (9)
Detroit (17)

They might be able to win enough ugly games to hang in there.

[Pugger]

House deserves the dud, but it's just that he doesn't have any make up speed. He's just limited.

He did have a sack yesterday tho.

[Tony Oday]

Dud for sure is Capers.

[hoosier]

One thing they have going for them is the low offensive rank (Yardage) of their upcoming opponents:

Baltimore (30)
Pittsburgh (11)
Tampa Bay (15)
Cleveland (25)
Carolina (26)
Minnesota (9)
Detroit (17)

They might be able to win enough ugly games to hang in there.

Yeah, that and the fact that there are currently a lot of NFC teams hovering around 500, which might mean that 9-7 isn't out of the running for last wild card.

But the injuries keep coming like a snowstorm in Buffalo, hard to see how they are going to survive those.

[mraynrand]

Dud for sure is Capers.

16 points too much?

[pbmax]

House doesn't need to be Shields, just good enough to force the QB to wait for his WR to get open. Given the pass rush a chance.

#MacGuyverDefense

[Maxie the Taxi]

House doesn't need to be Shields, just good enough to force the QB to wait for his WR to get open. Given the pass rush a chance.

#MacGuyverDefenseIs House better or worse than Gunter in this regard?:-)

[texaspackerbacker]

Is House better or worse than Gunter in this regard?:-)

I'm glad somebody asked this. Lack of speed, of course, was always the complaint about Gunter - who I really liked. Gunter at least had great instincts. I don't see that in House. I'll say Gunter better by a mile - and I think he still plays for the Ravens. I hope the stupidity of getting rid of him doesn't bite us in the ass next Sunday.

[Pugger]

I'm glad somebody asked this. Lack of speed, of course, was always the complaint about Gunter - who I really liked. Gunter at least had great instincts. I don't see that in House. I'll say Gunter better by a mile - and I think he still plays for the Ravens. I hope the stupidity of getting rid of him doesn't bite us in the ass next Sunday.

Gunter is on the Panthers' roster, not the Ravens. He has appeared in 3 games this season and has yet to register a tackle. He was inactive last night. I'd rather have King over him all day long.

[pbmax]

Is House better or worse than Gunter in this regard?:-)

If he keeps getting beat deep, it'll be close. I sense that House is better at defending crossing routes though. Like King is at defending slants. Able to stay closer and get hands on ball.

[mraynrand]

House doesn't need to be Shields, just good enough to force the QB to wait for his WR to get open. Given the pass rush a chance.

#MacGuyverDefense

'pass rush' made me lol

[MadScientist]

One thing they have going for them is the low offensive rank (Yardage) of their upcoming opponents:

Baltimore (30)
Pittsburgh (11)
Tampa Bay (15)
Cleveland (25)
Carolina (26)
Minnesota (9)
Detroit (17)

They might be able to win enough ugly games to hang in there.

Detroit didn't even punt. They knew every blitz. Any team with a competent QB and OC, will not be stopped and unless Hundley learns to deal with pressure
The Packers squeaked by the Bears, due in large part by the worst challenge in the NFL this year. The Cleveland game is winnable, but I'm not sure if another one is.

[pbmax]

'pass rush' made me lol

Yeah, that is still going to be a problem going forward. There were some coverage sacks against the Bears and I bet most of that was Trubisky being hesitant.

Won't be the same against better veteran QBs.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Studs: TT and MM

Monty and Jones go down and TT/MM have Jamaal Williams not only ready and waiting, but in kick-ass form. Moreover, they've got Devante Mays waiting in the wings. TT's draft of three RB's looks pretty damn brilliant now and Stubby coached them up.

Stubby also had his men ready to kick butt in Chicago. And his focus on Williams rushing rather than asking Hundley to clone Arod was studly. I've said it before: Stubby is the finest coach in the NFL when his back is to the wall. If Stubby keeps motivating and adapting, I'm beginning to think we're capable of running the table....

[mraynrand]

Yeah, that is still going to be a problem going forward. There were some coverage sacks against the Bears and I bet most of that was Trubisky being hesitant.

Won't be the same against better veteran QBs.

As Scoops McGinn always says the Packers feast on bad quarterbacking and December weather. Look at Maxis’ post. Packers are built to win some outdoor slugfests but will lose indoor games to talented QBs who never visit the turf.

[ThunderDan]

Studs: TT and MM

Monty and Jones go down and TT/MM have Jamaal Williams not only ready and waiting, but in kick-ass form. Moreover, they've got Devante Mays waiting in the wings. TT's draft of three RB's looks pretty damn brilliant now and Stubby coached them up.

Stubby also had his men ready to kick butt in Chicago. And his focus on Williams rushing rather than asking Hundley to clone Arod was studly. I've said it before: Stubby is the finest coach in the NFL when his back is to the wall. If Stubby keeps motivating and adapting, I'm beginning to think we're capable of running the table....

Maxi-

Boy you missed the boat. TT should never have drafted Eddie Lacy as he can find so many gems late in the draft at RB. I mean we could have picked Tyrann Mathieu or a handful of players taken later who have done better in the NFL. I do it all the time on my Madden video game.

Sarcasm.:bang:

[mraynrand]

Maxi-

Boy you missed the boat. TT should never have drafted Eddie Lacy as he can find so many gems late in the draft at RB. I mean we could have picked Tyrann Mathieu or a handful of players taken later who have done better in the NFL. I do it all the time on my Madden video game.

Sarcasm.:bang:

Could be worse. You could have drafted Trent Richardson with the #3 overall pick - if you were Mike Holmgren and the Hapless Browns. Trent now carries the rock for the Saskatchewan Roughriders.

[Pugger]

Studs: TT and MM

Monty and Jones go down and TT/MM have Jamaal Williams not only ready and waiting, but in kick-ass form. Moreover, they've got Devante Mays waiting in the wings. TT's draft of three RB's looks pretty damn brilliant now and Stubby coached them up.

Stubby also had his men ready to kick butt in Chicago. And his focus on Williams rushing rather than asking Hundley to clone Arod was studly. I've said it before: Stubby is the finest coach in the NFL when his back is to the wall. If Stubby keeps motivating and adapting, I'm beginning to think we're capable of running the table....

Yes, I remember many were wondering what in the hell Ted was doing taking 3 RBs in the last draft. Looking back now thank god he did!

[Rutnstrut]

Yes, I remember many were wondering what in the hell Ted was doing taking 3 RBs in the last draft. Looking back now thank god he did!

IMO you can't have too much depth at RB. Especially after the RB debacle of last year. But I also would have kept 3 QB's and about 30 O-lineman. I would need a 147 man roster;).

[Smidgeon]

Yes, I remember many were wondering what in the hell Ted was doing taking 3 RBs in the last draft. Looking back now thank god he did!

2 out of 3 being (seemingly) decent ain't bad. One is starter material, the other showed up against a tough running D. It almost makes me more interested to see the third because the first two (appear) were hits. More than likely, Mays is the dud, but I still want to see what he has too.

[Rutnstrut]

The huge plus side of Rodgers getting hurt is that stubby almost has to run the ball more. With Rodgers in there he would get big play pass happy and ignore the run, even when it was more effective.

[Pugger]

IMO you can't have too much depth at RB. Especially after the RB debacle of last year. But I also would have kept 3 QB's and about 30 O-lineman. I would need a 147 man roster;).

No kidding. Too bad NFL rosters aren't as large as those in the college ranks.

[Zool]

2 out of 3 being (seemingly) decent ain't bad. One is starter material, the other showed up against a tough running D. It almost makes me more interested to see the third because the first two (appear) were hits. More than likely, Mays is the dud, but I still want to see what he has too.

Mays is the one with a freak show size/speed ratio. He also had some troubles in college. Wonder if he's a $100 body with a $.10 head?

[The Shadow]

The huge plus side of Rodgers getting hurt is that stubby almost has to run the ball more. With Rodgers in there he would get big play pass happy and ignore the run, even when it was more effective.

Very astute observation. The back half of this season -if used to really develop an outstanding ground game - could pay huge dividends in the future.

[Fritz]

I wonder. Once Rodgers is back next year, no matter how good the ground game, MM will go back to - as perhaps he should - centering his game plans on #12.

[Smidgeon]

I wonder. Once Rodgers is back next year, no matter how good the ground game, MM will go back to - as perhaps he should - centering his game plans on #12.

How did he call plays in Lacy's second season? He still leaned on Lacy with a second 1100 yard season. I think if any of the RBs show they can run on a defense consistently, M3 will utilize that. The problem with Monty is he's too hot and cold. He'll have the occasional big game, but he'll also get too bottled up. His real ability to split out wide as a receiver and run NFL quality routes makes him something special, but only if M3 wants to exploit it (meaning choosing to run the offense that way and take the ball out of the hands of three better receivers).

Speaking of receivers, where are the young guys stepping up? In a couple of years, Cobb and Nelson will be gone. The Packers have Adams and....?

[mraynrand]

I wonder. Once Rodgers is back next year, no matter how good the ground game, MM will go back to - as perhaps he should - centering his game plans on #12.

but only up to a point. It's a passing league, but the teams that are tearing it up this year have a really good balance, if not a focus on the running game. LeVeon Bell, Gurley, Hunt are monsters, and NO has a really nice mix of backs. Dallas goes without saying. NE and Seattle are probably more in tune with the pass first, pass often approach of Stubbers, but it's probs cuz their run offense is so putrid.

[mraynrand]

Speaking of receivers, where are the young guys stepping up? In a couple of years, Cobb and Nelson will be gone. The Packers have Adams and....?

McCaffrey. All pro I tells ya! Seriously though, the Packers will be panicking over WRs (including TEs) this offseason. Their bottom feeder, bottom of the draft WRs did not pan out.

[pbmax]

but only up to a point. It's a passing league, but the teams that are tearing it up this year have a really good balance, if not a focus on the running game. LeVeon Bell, Gurley, Hunt are monsters, and NO has a really nice mix of backs. Dallas goes without saying. NE and Seattle are probably more in tune with the pass first, pass often approach of Stubbers, but it's probs cuz their run offense is so putrid.

Group 1: Pittsburgh, Rams, KC, NO

Group 2: Seattle, NE

I'd take Group 2 to emulate.

But Seahawks aren't an easy comparison point. At first under Wilson they were run first and run most. After Beast Mode left and the O line deteriorated, they have been slowly moving to pass dominance. Its mainly the D that keeps that team together, though that is showing a decline now too.

NO is the most interesting, but I have my doubts when they had a game in Green Bay in doubt until the 4th quarter when the Packers had no pass defense and no passing game. I am not buying them.

This was the WRONG year for Rodgers to take a vacation. Wide open.

[pbmax]

How did he call plays in Lacy's second season? He still leaned on Lacy with a second 1100 yard season. I think if any of the RBs show they can run on a defense consistently, M3 will utilize that. The problem with Monty is he's too hot and cold. He'll have the occasional big game, but he'll also get too bottled up. His real ability to split out wide as a receiver and run NFL quality routes makes him something special, but only if M3 wants to exploit it (meaning choosing to run the offense that way and take the ball out of the hands of three better receivers).

Speaking of receivers, where are the young guys stepping up? In a couple of years, Cobb and Nelson will be gone. The Packers have Adams and....?

I think the bag of running backs they have now, with a line that is not as good at run blocking as when Lang and Sitton were in their prime in GB, would work fine. Lotta diverse talents there. Short yardage, some speed and pass catching. Can do a lot with that.

They definitely need a WR to step up. Even Allison becoming a factor might be nice but I think extra TE play has reduced his snaps. But Janis/Davis haven't made the jump.

[mraynrand]

Group 1: Pittsburgh, Rams, KC, NO

Group 2: Seattle, NE

I'd take Group 2 to emulate.

But Seahawks aren't an easy comparison point. At first under Wilson they were run first and run most. After Beast Mode left and the O line deteriorated, they have been slowly moving to pass dominance. Its mainly the D that keeps that team together, though that is showing a decline now too.

NO is the most interesting, but I have my doubts when they had a game in Green Bay in doubt until the 4th quarter when the Packers had no pass defense and no passing game. I am not buying them.

This was the WRONG year for Rodgers to take a vacation. Wide open.

Both group 2 coaches want to be in group 1, if/when possible.



I didn't analyze Philly for Pass versus Run. I think they've just been insanely efficient (Wentz is playing flawless ball) and have feasted off turnovers and general bad football by opponents.

[Fritz]

They need Lance Kendricks to step up, both blocking and getting open in the middle.

[pbmax]

Both group 2 coaches want to be in group 1, if/when possible.



I didn't analyze Philly for Pass versus Run. I think they've just been insanely efficient (Wentz is playing flawless ball) and have feasted off turnovers and general bad football by opponents.

Wentz and the Philly offense are having a Green Bay in 1996 kinda year. D and ST giving them tremendous field position.

Scott Kacsmar, the guy who noted Rodger/McCarthy woeful 4th Quarter Comeback record has been telling people this to get them to stop the hype on Wentz. It isn't going well. :lol:

[denverYooper]

Wentz and the Philly offense are having a Green Bay in 1996 kinda year. D and ST giving them tremendous field position.

Scott Kacsmar, the guy who noted Rodger/McCarthy woeful 4th Quarter Comeback record has been telling people this to get them to stop the hype on Wentz. It isn't going well. :lol:

Is Captain Comeback getting pelted with batteries?

[pbmax]

Is Captain Comeback getting pelted with batteries?

Virtually, yes.

[denverYooper]

Virtually, yes.

That seems to be his sweet spot. IIRC, he made his name arguing with statistics that Tom Brady was not as good as Big Ben. Then he moved on to drive the "Rodgers (and later M3) is not clutch" train.

[pbmax]

That seems to be his sweet spot. IIRC, he made his name arguing with statistics that Tom Brady was not as good as Big Ben. Then he moved on to drive the "Rodgers (and later M3) is not clutch" train.

He is still driving Brady fans nuts.

His new point is that the Patriots playoffs wins in the Belichick era have featured better defense than offense trends. As in, number of playoff wins where QB had to score more than 24 points: Wilson 5, Warner 4, Rodgers 3, Manning all of them, Brady -2, etc.

He also has a chart of dropped INTs in playoff games. That was started by noticing Brady's low ypa in Super Bowls.

Overall, he has a point. New England doesn't normally put it all on his shoulders. Which is what a great team should be doing. But he purposefully frames it as a shot at Brady.

https://captaincomeback.wordpress.com/2017/07/18/rant-about-tom-brady-and-ypa/

Even Peter King was bothered by it. But SK had a point, even if Brady was only one point of it.

[denverYooper]

He is still driving Brady fans nuts.

His new point is that the Patriots playoffs wins in the Belichick era have featured better defense than offense trends. As in, number of playoff wins where QB had to score more than 24 points: Wilson 5, Warner 4, Rodgers 3, Manning all of them, Brady -2, etc.

He also has a chart of dropped INTs in playoff games. That was started by noticing Brady's low ypa in Super Bowls.

Overall, he has a point. New England doesn't normally put it all on his shoulders. Which is what a great team should be doing. But he purposefully frames it as a shot at Brady.

https://captaincomeback.wordpress.com/2017/07/18/rant-about-tom-brady-and-ypa/

Even Peter King was bothered by it. But SK had a point, even if Brady was only one point of it.

That post was a nice capsule discussion on the number of factors outside of a quarterback's control and how the playoffs in particular rely more on whole-team effort, defense in particular.