More Banjo: Week 13 vs. Tampa

[pbmax]

Called it an underserved win in game day thread and I think that stands. But no apologies for being .500.

Clark got banged up but came back in. Randall got knocked in the helmet and stayed out I believe. House got banged up and came back in.

Saw a lot of Joe Thomas in second half and Martinez. Think Jake Ryan got hurt in second half.

SPRIGGS™ WATCH will get summarized here. But it wasn't pretty. He had help from either Evans, Williams or Kendricks on most plays. He was not a turnstile but he did have two compete whiffs. He didn't get beat inside except for one run away from him, but he has trouble with stunts and speed. I actually think he is actively making Evans worse requiring so much help.

[pbmax]

The drive in OT was one of the best McCarthy has called in long time. Enough run trickery to keep defense honest. The fake to Cobb was a beauty.

Williams and Jones are beasts. Jordy might be done. The draft next year will be all pass rushers and WR.

[pbmax]

Packer Report @PackerReport
Jake Ryan has a neck injury. So the defense, which has held them in the game, is running out of guys

And the Badgers get IMIAM in the Orange Bowl.

[channtheman]

If Vikings lose out, and Packers win out, I think we take the division.

[Rutnstrut]

If Vikings lose out, and Packers win out, I think we take the division.

The Vikings aren't going to lose out. They are really good.

[mraynrand]

The drive in OT was one of the best McCarthy has called in long time. Enough run trickery to keep defense honest. The fake to Cobb was a beauty.

Williams and Jones are beasts. Jordy might be done. The draft next year will be all pass rushers and WR.

You're all over the 'Jordy done' today. Unless I missed it, this is new. How can you tell? The guy throwing the ball can't put one on an open receiver more than 5 yards down the field.

[Rutnstrut]

I will admit that drive in OT was probably stubby's best this season if not his whole career.

[mraynrand]

The drive in OT was one of the best McCarthy has called in long time. Enough run trickery to keep defense honest. The fake to Cobb was a beauty.

Williams and Jones are beasts.

Stubby can take any collegiate job he wants, if he ever decides to go that way.

[Rutnstrut]

Stubby can take any collegiate job he wants, if he ever decides to go that way.

He'd fit right in, in Madison. The Badgers seem to love to hire coaches that choke for the big game.

[pbmax]

You're all over the 'Jordy done' today. Unless I missed it, this is new. How can you tell? The guy throwing the ball can't put one on an open receiver more than 5 yards down the field.

True. Jordy can probably still get open. But he no longer dominates physically. He used to be the best at WR screens, stiffing one guy and making another miss.

He can't do that anymore. He doesn't seem quick or have any snap. He might get his mojo back with Rodgers, but I would not be surprised if he is no longer an athletic marvel making plays.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I have a hunch that Hundley did those QB keepers in OT on his own.

[pbmax]

Green Bay Packers @packers
McCarthy: By no means was that a pretty victory, but the way we were able to slug it out, we'll be a better football team moving forward because of it. #TBvsGB #GoPackGo

[red]

And the Badgers get IMIAM in the Orange Bowl.

my biggest fear in life

my two favorite college teams collide

i've never had to pick one over the other before

[George Cumby]

my biggest fear in life

my two favorite college teams collide

i've never had to pick one over the other before

As if we needed any more evidence that you are really fucked up.

[Rutnstrut]

Browns don't look as bad as their record would indicate. I won't be surprised if the Packers lose to them.

[Pugger]

I will admit that drive in OT was probably stubby's best this season if not his whole career.

But he was a real dumbass for abandoning the run for most of the 2nd half.

[Pugger]

He'd fit right in, in Madison. The Badgers seem to love to hire coaches that choke for the big game.

Its hard to win those big games when Hornibrook is just another Brett Hundley.

[denverYooper]

Hundley with the 4QC and GWD.

#Clutchiness

[Joemailman]

Hundley with the 4QC and GWD.

#Clutchiness

Finally we have a QB who can do that.

[Teamcheez1]

Hundley with the 4QC and GWD.

#Clutchiness

No.

[pbmax]

Hundley with the 4QC and GWD.

#Clutchiness

It’s the most important thing.

[pbmax]

my biggest fear in life

my two favorite college teams collide

i've never had to pick one over the other before

They have played twice before.

[ThunderDan]

They have played twice before.

I was at the 51-3 slaughter when Miami was #1 in 89.

The chant that day was "We scored first."

[red]

this win is kinda bittersweet

i think most of us now agrre that some kind of changes need to be made, whether its front office people, scouting folks, coaches, scheme, or whatever

but i think todays really shitty win against a really shitty team might stop any of that from happening

[pbmax]

Run game in OT? Power Gap with Taylor and Evans, helping to slow down Gerald McCoy.


The beauty of the “power” plays the Packers ran late in the fourth quarter and overtime was that it neutralized defensive tackle Gerald McCoy and the linebackers from shooting gaps and blowing up the zone runs.

McCoy had ruined a fourth-quarter drive by shooting past Evans and tackling Williams for a 3-yard loss. Evans had to worry about McCoy putting a swim move on him and beating him to the right if he over-pursued McCoy to the left.

“So, when you have him on the two-way go, I can overthink and say I don’t want to go too far and he swims me and back doors me,” Evans said. “And I don’t want to be too late or you see exactly what happened.

“When you have that gap (power) scheme you’re protected on one side.”

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/12/03/silverstein-winning-play-set-up-jamaal-williams-powerful-performance/917456001/

[pbmax]

From PFF Twitter:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQJ0PtqW4AAiybL.jpg:large

[pbmax]

Packer Report @PackerReport
House said he has to lobby to stay in the game. Playoff football mentality.

[QBME]

this win is kinda bittersweet

i think most of us now agrre that some kind of changes need to be made, whether its front office people, scouting folks, coaches, scheme, or whatever

but i think todays really shitty win against a really shitty team might stop any of that from happening

I kinda, sort of almost partially buy into it...but we won against a team we were supposed to lose to. And we did it without backing down. It somehow occurs to me that the team is beginning to realize they are pretty freakin" good no matter who is on the field.

We may be a day late and a dollar short but it's getting cold and that's when things begin to happening.

Is it on the razors edge? Fuckin' eh...

And to all you folk's who have been espousing "tank it", sorry for you. Go watch something else.

[pbmax]

Jason Wilde @jasonjwilde
The #Packers’ third-and-1 pass to Nelson late in the fourth quarter before the tying field goal was a run/pass option, McCarthy said. Hundley saw an empty pressure coming and chose the pass option.


So question is, was he right?

[Joemailman]

Hundley has started 6 games. 4 at home. 2 on the road.

His stats at home: 72-121, 655, 0 TD, 4 INT, Passer Rating 60.6

His stats on the road: 35-51, 457, 4 TD, 0 INT, Passer Rating 122.7.

Good news for next week? Is he feeling the pressure more at home?

[channtheman]

Hundley has started 6 games. 4 at home. 2 on the road.

His stats at home: 72-121, 655, 0 TD, 4 INT, Passer Rating 60.6

His stats on the road: 35-51, 457, 4 TD, 0 INT, Passer Rating 122.7.

Good news for next week? Is he feeling the pressure more at home?


No he sucks and had 1 fluky game against the Steelers in which they decided not to cover receivers 30 yard downfield and Hundley simply hit the guy who was so wide open the underthrown passes still lead to TD's. Oh yeah and a 50 yard screen for a TD.

[ThunderDan]

Hundley couldn’t have done that today. Missed wide open Allison for a touchdown and Adams which would have been a 1st down.

[Pugger]

Jason Wilde @jasonjwilde
The #Packers’ third-and-1 pass to Nelson late in the fourth quarter before the tying field goal was a run/pass option, McCarthy said. Hundley saw an empty pressure coming and chose the pass option.


So question is, was he right?

How close was that and why didn't we try to challenge it?

[texaspackerbacker]

No he sucks and had 1 fluky game against the Steelers in which they decided not to cover receivers 30 yard downfield and Hundley simply hit the guy who was so wide open the underthrown passes still lead to TD's. Oh yeah and a 50 yard screen for a TD.

This was the fluky game, not playing well against the Steelers. The kid has been a slightly above average NFL starting QB IMO. He's no Aaron Rodgers, but then nobody is.

It seems to me that most of the boos from fans were for McCarthy's play calling, not Hundley.

For the anti-Capers crowd: It's the personnel, not the scheming that's the problem. The Packers D just can't stop everything; There has to be a large element of guessing and trickery. I think the first Tampa TD drive was an example of trying to play it straight up with little or no scheming - and that sure didn't go well.

I'm as big a critic as anybody of our O Line, but they were generally less crappy than usual. You don't have a running game like that without at least a little bit of decent blocking, even though Williams got a lot on his own, and Jones got zilch from line blocking on that last TD run.

I suspect part of the reason for Matthews doing so well and Perry doing little or nothing is that Perry is now getting the attention Matthews used to get blocking-wise.

We finally found an adequate ILB in Martinez; Ryan isn't, and Thomas played like crap in that game. Our OLBs, on the other hand, all of them, are shaping up to be pretty decent. What I'd like to see is pair Matthews with Martinez at ILB, and go with Perry, Fackrell, Brooks, and Biegel at OLB.

All our DBs other than Randall didn't even rise to the level of mediocrity yesterday.

Our pass receivers have been exposed as only seeming so good because of Aaron Rodgers. Nelson and Cobb simply can't get open on their own, and Adams, while the best of the bunch now, still is below average for the league, and the TEs are horrible.

Just the same, the future is fairly bright. Assuming we can get by the Browns, and Rodgers will be his old self, going 10-6 is very realistic. Seeing him there with Williams and Jones as RB options is nice to think about. I analyzed the schedule, and there's a good chance 10-6 will get us in, what with so many other wild card contenders playing each other or playing top teams.

[mraynrand]

It's hard to evaluate a lot from this game outside Hundley. Are the WRs and TEs any good? Who knows, the QB can't throw the ball anywhere near them. In the second half, the offense had three 3 and outs and didn't get a first down until 5 minutes left in the game. So the defense sucks because it gives up 10 points against that? The defense surrendered 20 points, but scored 6, for a 14 point net. But the DBs sucked? What, are they supposed to pitch a shut out? Even Minnesota's defense, ranked second in points allowed gives up 17 points per game.

With a decent QB performance, this game would have never been in doubt. With Rodgers, it would have been a laugher and people would have been napping through a 45-10 fourth quarter.

[Pugger]

This was the fluky game, not playing well against the Steelers. The kid has been a slightly above average NFL starting QB IMO. He's no Aaron Rodgers, but then nobody is.

It seems to me that most of the boos from fans were for McCarthy's play calling, not Hundley.

For the anti-Capers crowd: It's the personnel, not the scheming that's the problem. The Packers D just can't stop everything; There has to be a large element of guessing and trickery. I think the first Tampa TD drive was an example of trying to play it straight up with little or no scheming - and that sure didn't go well.

I'm as big a critic as anybody of our O Line, but they were generally less crappy than usual. You don't have a running game like that without at least a little bit of decent blocking, even though Williams got a lot on his own, and Jones got zilch from line blocking on that last TD run.

I suspect part of the reason for Matthews doing so well and Perry doing little or nothing is that Perry is now getting the attention Matthews used to get blocking-wise.

We finally found an adequate ILB in Martinez; Ryan isn't, and Thomas played like crap in that game. Our OLBs, on the other hand, all of them, are shaping up to be pretty decent. What I'd like to see is pair Matthews with Martinez at ILB, and go with Perry, Fackrell, Brooks, and Biegel at OLB.

All our DBs other than Randall didn't even rise to the level of mediocrity yesterday.

Our pass receivers have been exposed as only seeming so good because of Aaron Rodgers. Nelson and Cobb simply can't get open on their own, and Adams, while the best of the bunch now, still is below average for the league, and the TEs are horrible.

Just the same, the future is fairly bright. Assuming we can get by the Browns, and Rodgers will be his old self, going 10-6 is very realistic. Seeing him there with Williams and Jones as RB options is nice to think about. I analyzed the schedule, and there's a good chance 10-6 will get us in, what with so many other wild card contenders playing each other or playing top teams.

It is difficult to access our WRs because the QB we are stuck with right now often can't hit the broad side of a barn. I don't care if aren't in the playoff hunt once Rodgers is good to go. I have seen enough of Hundley, that's for sure. :-P

[ThunderDan]

This was the fluky game, not playing well against the Steelers. The kid has been a slightly above average NFL starting QB IMO. He's no Aaron Rodgers, but then nobody is.


Thanks for the Monday morning laugh!

Hundley is a slightly above average NFL starting QB.

Look, I was hoping he would develop and figured it would take 4-6 weeks to get him up to speed. I thought the Pittsburg game was the turning point. But now sandwiched between Bal and TB, the Pitt game is the outlier.

[ThunderDan]

It seems to me that most of the boos from fans were for McCarthy's play calling, not Hundley.


I agree but MM had a firm grasp on what his QB was able to do on Sunday. He wouldn't throw a 10 yard crossing route because it was going to be incomplete. We ran read option and no passes more than 5 yards down field in FG drive and TD in OT. No one trusts Hundley right now. MM wont open up the playbook because Hundley can't execute it right now.

[mraynrand]

I agree but MM had a firm grasp on what his QB was able to do on Sunday. He wouldn't throw a 10 yard crossing route because it was going to be incomplete. We ran read option and no passes more than 5 yards down field in FG drive and TD in OT. No one trusts Hundley right now. MM wont open up the playbook because Hundley can't execute it right now.

this is on the money. The fans were booing the suckitude. The inability to connect with open receivers isn't hidden. Hundley isn't an average starting QB - he's a marginal backup, only occasionally NOMINAL!

[hoosier]

The giant disappointment that is Hundely does not reflect well on McCarthy, and his QB guru reputation is going to take a hit as a result. One cannot always make chicken salad out of chicken shit, but you would at least expect McCarthy to have known what he had in the new guy before he gets thrown in the fire.

[pbmax]

The giant disappointment that is Hundely does not reflect well on McCarthy, and his QB guru reputation is going to take a hit as a result. One cannot always make chicken salad out of chicken shit, but you would at least expect McCarthy to have known what he had in the new guy before he gets thrown in the fire.

I agree completely. Though I count on him less for recognition of talent and more on development. The fact that this is Year 3 is the damming part.

I am down to about 15% chance of Hundley developing some sort of functional game. But its going to be running a Kaepernick offense and not Rodgers/M3 WCO.

Which is why CK should have a job and why SPRIGGS WATCH will return next week because we need a return on that investment of talent. Sorry maxie.

Talent is paramount.

[Maxie the Taxi]

The giant disappointment that is Hundely does not reflect well on McCarthy, and his QB guru reputation is going to take a hit as a result. One cannot always make chicken salad out of chicken shit, but you would at least expect McCarthy to have known what he had in the new guy before he gets thrown in the fire.

Agreed. I kind of figured Hundley for what he is and felt Stubby was taking a huge gamble that Arod wouldn't go down like he did. That feeling was mitigated by Hundley's ability to run the ball. I figured if Arod did go down our best chance to win was letting Hundley use his legs. But apparently Stubby put the kibosh on that fearing Hundley would get hurt and, apparently, having no confidence at all in Callahan. Hundley used his legs against Tampa and it paid off. Either Stubby wanted him to or he did it on his own. I don't know.

No matter how you slice it TT and Stubby own this season. I don't even give them a pass because of injuries. All teams in the NFL suffer injuries [or losses due to suspensions, etc] to key players. How coaches and management deal with it is on them.

As fans, we can bitch and moan and put in our two cents with hindsight allowed. But management and the HC have to make real decisions and live with them...and bear the consequences.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Which is why CK should have a job and why SPRIGGS WATCH will return next week because we need a return on that investment of talent. Sorry maxie.

Talent is paramount.Really, my only objection was that I found myself reading too much and not focusing on the game. LOL I vote for a brief summation.:bow:

Maybe I'm just getting old and the old hand-eye coordination is going...

[beveaux1]

Hundley is what he is - a marginal back up NFL QB. He started the season with minimal experience in the NFL. Against back ups and vanilla defenses he looked great his first preseason playing roughly half the time in 4 preseason games. He was injured his 2nd preseason and played in one game throwing for 67 yards. This year he again played about half the time and was very average.

People on this board thought he was worth a high draft pick in trade value based on his first preseason, having never started an NFL game. Realistically, he may have been worth a 4th round pick if he never started. Unfortunately, he now has starting experience and has gone 2-5 playing 6 3/4 games. He is worth nothing on the open market, but he still has value to the Packers. He is probably the 2nd best backup Rodgers has ever had and has a chance to progress to be the best backup in the Rodgers era because he has the ability to run the read option.

There is a decent chance he could end up 3-5 after the Browns game as a starter. Truth is that a good backup on a good team can play .500 ball with the starter sidelined for a short duration. I believe that would be his ceiling, to play .500 ball as a short duration backup on a good team. He is not a starter in my opinion. I don't believe he would be as good as Geno Smith if he became a starter. I don't believe he would be as good as Josh McCown or Ryan Fitzpatrick if he became a starter. I do think he could back up Rodgers for a few years and he would be much better than Tolzien, Wallace, Young, Harrell, or Brohm. That gives him value in my opinion.

[beveaux1]

I also don't think of Hundley's progression as an indictment to MM and TT. Hundley is a 5th round pick that was taken to be Rodgers' backup. I never heard any coach say that he was drafted to be Rodgers' successor. It was only after one good preseason that some fans felt that Rodgers could be traded and Hundley could be installed as the starter. Truth is, Hundley has progressed to where the team can win games with him as a starter. He is beginning to reach his potential even with the accuracy issues and the rest of his limitations.

[Pugger]

The giant disappointment that is Hundely does not reflect well on McCarthy, and his QB guru reputation is going to take a hit as a result. One cannot always make chicken salad out of chicken shit, but you would at least expect McCarthy to have known what he had in the new guy before he gets thrown in the fire.

Sometimes you don't know until you actual throw them into the fire. He might be one of those guys who is fine at practice and the preseason but stinks once the real bullets fly. We are going to need to draft another QB to groom behind AR this spring.

[Pugger]

Agreed. I kind of figured Hundley for what he is and felt Stubby was taking a huge gamble that Arod wouldn't go down like he did. That feeling was mitigated by Hundley's ability to run the ball. I figured if Arod did go down our best chance to win was letting Hundley use his legs. But apparently Stubby put the kibosh on that fearing Hundley would get hurt and, apparently, having no confidence at all in Callahan. Hundley used his legs against Tampa and it paid off. Either Stubby wanted him to or he did it on his own. I don't know.

No matter how you slice it TT and Stubby own this season. I don't even give them a pass because of injuries. All teams in the NFL suffer injuries [or losses due to suspensions, etc] to key players. How coaches and management deal with it is on them.

As fans, we can bitch and moan and put in our two cents with hindsight allowed. But management and the HC have to make real decisions and live with them...and bear the consequences.

I didn't mind Ted and Mike concentrating on beefing up other positions besides the backup QB. Almost every team in the league will suffer when they lose their starting QB. We gambled and lost. And we don't have a lot of draft capital invested in Hundley. He was a 5th rounder for a reason. Now we have to try and get another one to develop behind Rodgers. This is supposed to be a decent QB class coming up so we should be able to find someone better this time in the later rounds.

[hoosier]

I have a feeling that things are not going to be status quo on Lombardi Avenue this off-season. We may be seeing a whole lot of reconfiguration, not just a search for a new backup QB. I hope that Murphy is up to the task of picking a capable GM.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I didn't mind Ted and Mike concentrating on beefing up other positions besides the backup QB. Almost every team in the league will suffer when they lose their starting QB. We gambled and lost. And we don't have a lot of draft capital invested in Hundley. He was a 5th rounder for a reason. Now we have to try and get another one to develop behind Rodgers. This is supposed to be a decent QB class coming up so we should be able to find someone better this time in the later rounds.Maybe it's just me, but I don't think you go into a draft trying to find exceptional talent in the later rounds, especially at QB. You draft them when the opportunity arises, like it did with Arod. They may have to use a 1st round pick. I don't think it's an exact enough science to classify QB's as "starter" or "backup." You choose talent and hope for the best. Of course there's always a chance you'll blow a higher round pick on a guy like Brian Brohm.

Maybe we have a better chance finding an Arod successor in free agency, especially if we keep drafting in the late 20's?

[mraynrand]

I kinda feel like these threads should be renamed "More Ukulele" Banjo has played out the string.

[texaspackerbacker]

You put half or more of the starting QBs in the league, and virtually all of the backups into the position Hundley has been in, and they would do worse than he has done over the course of all the games he's started. Put any immobile QB behind the Packers O Line, and you have an absolute disaster. Ask any QB to thread the needle to receivers who don't get any more separation than ours do, and it's mission impossible. Put a play calling leash on any QB like Hundley has had, and they will give you a worse result.

Likely Hundley will be traded within a year. We'll see then what the market is/what others around the league think of him.

[ThunderDan]

Likely Hundley will be traded within a year. We'll see then what the market is/what others around the league think of him.

We would be lucky to get a bag of deflated footballs from NE.

[beveaux1]

You put half or more of the starting QBs in the league, and virtually all of the backups into the position Hundley has been in, and they would do worse than he has done over the course of all the games he's started. Put any immobile QB behind the Packers O Line, and you have an absolute disaster. Ask any QB to thread the needle to receivers who don't get any more separation than ours do, and it's mission impossible. Put a play calling leash on any QB like Hundley has had, and they will give you a worse result.

Likely Hundley will be traded within a year. We'll see then what the market is/what others around the league think of him.

Not likely he will be traded. He will test free agency after next year. He will be the backup QB for the Packers next year. He will probably re-sign with GB.

[pbmax]

I kinda feel like these threads should be renamed "More Ukulele" Banjo has played out the string.

We could do that if the Packers signed someone with an interesting name like Atari Bigby or Scorpio Babres again.

Come to think of it, we could just call it Nominal Geronimo.

[pbmax]

Hundley's real test will be if the Vikings want to sign him.

[pbmax]

Packer Twitter is ALL akimbo about Capers playing his safeties back on long distance downs. However, if I am not mistaken, They only had one safety back when Whitehead let the TE go by him for an early TE. I could be mistaken as that sounds familiar from the Badger game.

But if that is the case, and Whitehead is your 3rd CB, playing safeties back doesn't seem so crazy to me.

[mraynrand]

We could do that if the Packers signed someone with an interesting name like Atari Bigby or Scorpio Babres again.

Come to think of it, we could just call it Nominal Geronimo.

Gernominal?

[mraynrand]

Packer Twitter is ALL akimbo about Capers playing his safeties back on long distance downs. However, if I am not mistaken, They only had one safety back when Whitehead let the TE go by him for an early TE. I could be mistaken as that sounds familiar from the Badger game.

But if that is the case, and Whitehead is your 3rd CB, playing safeties back doesn't seem so crazy to me.

I just love those plays where the corner gives the receiver a soft bump and turns him over to the safety - and there's no safety.

[hoosier]

I just love those plays where the corner gives the receiver a soft bump and turns him over to the safety - and there's no safety.

There is a name for that. It is called the Hawthorne coverage.

[red]

There is a name for that. It is called the Hawthorne coverage.

its called the capers d

[George Cumby]

I just love those plays where the corner gives the receiver a soft bump and turns him over to the safety - and there's no safety.

I love those too........when the Packers are on offense.