More Banjo: Week 14 @ Cleveland

[pbmax]

OT Win! Clutch!

Game winning and tying drive!

House hurt three body parts in one play and you will have to fend for the rest of the news yourself until later.

[denverYooper]

Per ESPN Stats & Info:

Overtime Record Including Playoffs - Brett Hundley: 2-0 - Aaron Rodgers: 1-7

[Fosco33]

Think about this. 7 wins. 3 of them in OT. Hundley has more OT wins than Aaron

[denverYooper]

M3 comment about clock vs plays mindset on late drives: "as many plays as we need to get to the endzone".

[ThunderDan]

Think about this. 7 wins. 3 of them in OT. Hundley has more OT wins than Aaron

Funny how stats can work out that way sometimes.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Big props to Randall for reading that 3rd down play in OT and completely shutting down Gordon on the quick slant. He's been playing better and better this season. I think he's a keeper.

[mraynrand]

Big props to Randall for reading that 3rd down play in OT and completely shutting down Gordon on the quick slant. He's been playing better and better this season. I think he's a keeper.

Yeah. He pretty much kept Gordon quiet. That was nice. And when the defense adjusted to the Brown’s run game they didn’t know where to go. A lot of that is Kiser not seeing the field. They do three man stacks and just tell him to throw to the most open guy.

[denverYooper]

Rob Demovsky‏Verified account @RobDemovsky
3m3 minutes ago

Both Aaron Jones and Brett Hundley said the botched fourth-and-1 play was supposed to be a counter toss and Hundley erred on the play

[Teamcheez1]

PFT reports that MM, Capers, and TT have all signed three year contract extensions after the win.

[Fritz]

Well, it was ugly, ugly, ugly. But how many times, with Aaron Rodgers at the helm, have we seen this team win ugly, ugly, ugly, and bitched and moaned afterward?

Too many to count. So let's take the damn win and maybe Dr. Mckenzie will force Rodgers to play next week, like he tried to do with Martellus Bennett.

[Harlan Huckleby]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02078/Kaiser_2078634b.jpg

Kaiser was the goat of the game, throwing a desperation sky ball when there was no desperation.

I remember Favre did that once or ten times.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Rob Demovsky‏Verified account @RobDemovsky
3m3 minutes ago

Both Aaron Jones and Brett Hundley said the botched fourth-and-1 play was supposed to be a counter toss and Hundley erred on the playWasn't this play after a time out? How the hell could Hundley screw it up? Unbelievable.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

Well, it was ugly, ugly, ugly. But how many times, with Aaron Rodgers at the helm, have we seen this team win ugly, ugly, ugly, and bitched and moaned afterward?

Too many to count. So let's take the damn win and maybe Dr. Mckenzie will force Rodgers to play next week, like he tried to do with Martellus Bennett.

Maybe, but to me it was depressing game. Cause if it is coaching, well they win so mm and his Goonies get another get out of jail free card, if its talent then they win so get a theoretical worse pick in the draft. Bleh....

[esoxx]

Maybe, but to me it was depressing game. Cause if it is coaching, well they win so mm and his Goonies get another get out of jail free card, if its talent then they win so get a theoretical worse pick in the draft. Bleh....

At your age, take any win you can get.

Man up, Sally

[MadScientist]

Per ESPN Stats & Info:

Overtime Record Including Playoffs - Brett Hundley: 2-0 - Aaron Rodgers: 1-7

I think that part of it is that Rodgers beats really shitty teams instead of just tying them in regulation time.

[QBME]

Wasn't this play after a time out? How the hell could Hundley screw it up? Unbelievable.

Left me puzzled also.

[denverYooper]

Aaron Nagler‏ @AaronNagler
26s26 seconds ago

Josh Gordon finished the game with 3 catches on 6 targets for 69 yards, 38 of which came on the Browns' first play.

[denverYooper]

I think that part of it is that Rodgers beats really shitty teams instead of just tying them in regulation time.

Yeah. I'm just dredging up an old stupid argument that is working in Hundley's favor :).

[George Cumby]

Well, it was ugly, ugly, ugly. But how many times, with Aaron Rodgers at the helm, have we seen this team win ugly, ugly, ugly, and bitched and moaned afterward?

Too many to count. So let's take the damn win and maybe Dr. Mckenzie will force Rodgers to play next week, like he tried to do with Martellus Bennett.

There are no style points in the NFL.

[esoxx]

There are no style points in the NFL.

Truer words have never been spoken.

You play to win the game.

[pbmax]

Per ESPN Stats & Info:

Overtime Record Including Playoffs - Brett Hundley: 2-0 - Aaron Rodgers: 1-7

I want to see someone ask Rodgers about that :D

[pbmax]

However, Hundley as Captain Comeback (Kardiac Kids!) shows the lack of context with this stat.

McCarthy still isn't sure how to construct an entire game plan with what Hundley does well. Which is throw short outside routes and slants and some RB check downs/screens. Deep stuff and comebacks are all hit or miss, mostly miss.

So the first drive is new stuff and adjustments and with a fake punt it goes like gangbusters down the field. After that, for most of 3 quarters it looks like a death march.

Then you are desperate and the opposing defense just doesn't want to give up a big play. So McCarthy puts him in shotgun and the defense lets the short stuff go. Hundley is more comfortable in shotgun, they are 4 or 5 wide and faces less immediate pressure. He makes reads faster and gets the ball out. Instead of runs, you get screens and check downs. It works like magic.

[pbmax]

Truer words have never been spoken.

You play to win the game.

You should be out recruiting Herm.

[pbmax]

Jason Wahlers‏ @JTWahlers

Per Elias, for the first time in team history the Packers have had three comeback wins from 14-plus down in a single season. #Packers #GBvsCLE


Just proves this stat is terrible.

[pbmax]

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/12/10/mike-mccarthys-packers-prevail-keeping-surprises-coming/937628001/


“There were a lot of good things today,” McCarthy said after the game, trying to make people forget all the bad things that happened. “We’re finding different ways to win and that’s what you have to do.

“That’s what good teams do. We’re excited to get out of here with a win, but more excited to keep playing.”


This time, McCarthy called a misdirection play that turned into a disaster when Hundley went the wrong way and failed to pitch the ball to running back Aaron Jones.

“There are some plays leading up to that, that set that play up,” McCarthy said. “The execution wasn’t there. That’s football. There was a lot of time left. I was confident in the way we were moving the football.”

[pbmax]

Michael Lombardi @mlombardiNFL
Heard Ron Wolf and Bill Parcells involved in helping Browns find their man and that Sashi Brown was involved in trying to find a football guy to help. He knew, just thought he was staying. oh well.


Dorsey is a good hire. But asking these guys for a recommendation is just getting a list of their friends. Its comical. They are far better at evaluating players and coaches than themselves and their underlings.

Probably another reason Belichick beats their teams so often.

[pbmax]

Packers played some zone, especially with Gordon in the slot, but went to Cover 2 man for the bulk of the game.

Now we just need to find out why Ha Ha is 25 yards deep.

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/12/10/packers-cb-damarious-randall-keeps-josh-gordon-check/937668001/

[pbmax]

WesHod

Phenomenal line from David Bakhtiari to Larry McCarren, summing up the first back-to-back overtime victories in #Packers' history

"We're like a zombie. We're undead. We refuse to just go down, which is a nice characteristic you want for a team"

[pbmax]

For the record, I saw SPRIGGS™ beat once around the edge, but he had good position and footwork the entire time, so it was a long, looping beat that gave the QB a chance to look and to step up had there not been other pressure. Believe he got the ball off a beat too late.

Also saw a down block that left someone unblocked on a run and a you go that way and I will go this way block with Evans to allow a free pass for a DL to hit the RB.

Other than that, it wasn't a tire fire.

[mraynrand]

“That’s what good teams do. We’re excited to get out of here with a win, but more excited to keep playing.”

EVEN STUBBY KNOWS IT WAS A PLAYOFF GAME

[mraynrand]

There are no style points in the NFL.

I always figured this phrase was popularized by someone who ran with the ball like Chester Marcol

http://media.jrn.com/images/chester11811.jpg

[mraynrand]

Kaiser was the goat of the game, throwing a desperation sky ball when there was no desperation.

I remember Favre did that once or ten times.

His arm was hit. There was a receiver on the outside, but he may have even been trying to just throw it away. Sometimes you have to take the sack.

[red]

However, Hundley as Captain Comeback (Kardiac Kids!) shows the lack of context with this stat.

McCarthy still isn't sure how to construct an entire game plan with what Hundley does well. Which is throw short outside routes and slants and some RB check downs/screens. Deep stuff and comebacks are all hit or miss, mostly miss.

So the first drive is new stuff and adjustments and with a fake punt it goes like gangbusters down the field. After that, for most of 3 quarters it looks like a death march.

Then you are desperate and the opposing defense just doesn't want to give up a big play. So McCarthy puts him in shotgun and the defense lets the short stuff go. Hundley is more comfortable in shotgun, they are 4 or 5 wide and faces less immediate pressure. He makes reads faster and gets the ball out. Instead of runs, you get screens and check downs. It works like magic.

he also needs to figure out at some point that the kid is just a flat out different player when he's not under center

[pbmax]

he also needs to figure out at some point that the kid is just a flat out different player when he's not under center

Yeah. Problem is that is an entirely different offense then because you need to construct a running game from shotgun and most of their better RB runs come from under center.

[pbmax]

Further SPRIGGS update: He had one bad pass set, same as described earlier where his guy got upfield on him and chased Hundley on drive to tie game I think. Hundley salvaged the play and gained five yards.

He had a couple of nice run blocks on those two last drives. Sealed his guy up well.

[texaspackerbacker]

Well, last week we won in spite of Hundley's bad game; This week we won because of Hundley's good game.

For most of the game, the Browns didn't play like a 0-12 team. I think horrible coaching is a large part of their problem. For most of the game, I was pissed off at McCarthy's play calling and overall competence level too. I HOPE that post on page 1 of this thread about 3 year extensions for him and Ted was pure sarcasm.

Atlanta winning Thursday and Carolina winning today was unfortunate, but it helps a lot that Seattle lost, and Detroit and Dallas winning doesn't hurt us if we win out. The season is still alive is Rodgers comes back and takes care of business for the last three games.

Win or lose, though, this season exposed what a shitty job Ted Thompson has done. If he isn't gone, I would hope he does an extremely much better job of building this team up before next season.

[mraynrand]

Further SPRIGGS update: He had one bad pass set, same as described earlier where his guy got upfield on him and chased Hundley on drive to tie game I think. Hundley salvaged the play and gained five yards.

He had a couple of nice run blocks on those two last drives. Sealed his guy up well.


Here's a crazy idea. Maybe, like Randall, he's just inexperienced and is in need of seasoning and coaching. Perhaps, after a year or two he will be a reliable starter. Perhaps the injuries to Bacteria and to Bulaga put him the starting lineup before he was ready. I know TT, Stubby, Campen and all the rest should be flogged and shunned for him not playing better, but there might just be a typical normal explanation that doesn't involve hyperbole like TT has done a 'shitty job.' Because if TT is (hyperbole) horrible, terrible, etc. etc., then there's no adjectives left for Sashi Brown, right?

[Pugger]

Here's a crazy idea. Maybe, like Randall, he's just inexperienced and is in need of seasoning and coaching. Perhaps, after a year or two he will be a reliable starter. Perhaps the injuries to Bacteria and to Bulaga put him the starting lineup before he was ready. I know TT, Stubby, Campen and all the rest should be flogged and shunned for him not playing better, but there might just be a typical normal explanation that doesn't involve hyperbole like TT has done a 'shitty job.' Because if TT is (hyperbole) horrible, terrible, etc. etc., then there's no adjectives left for Sashi Brown, right?

It is unrealistic for fans to expect young players to be All-Pros right away.

[pbmax]

He needed time and snaps to improve. True of almost any player early in career.

His first reps at Guard as a rookie looked promising even if he occasionally whiffed. He looked like a fighter and had an attitude in there.

My concern with Spriggs was that he looked lost and unsure back out at Tackle. Which is not how good tackles in the first two rounds normally look out of the gate. There wasn't anything solid to his game at the start. He struggled to find a pass set he could work with and was so concerned by speed he got beat with inside counter moves. So it looked like there wasn't a decent baseline to start with.

Now he seems much more comfortable mirroring speed rushes up the field and isn't as susceptible to inside moves. He needs to work on his hands, but he looks much more solid to me now after a couple full game starts. Its a good sign.

The other weird thing is that he and Jahri need mediation or something when deciding which direction to block. 3 times a game it looks like two different calls between them. The kid is young though and Gregg Williams was throwing all kinds of fronts out there to send blitzes from strange places. He'll catch on.

[George Cumby]

Here's a crazy idea. Maybe, like Randall, he's just inexperienced and is in need of seasoning and coaching. Perhaps, after a year or two he will be a reliable starter. Perhaps the injuries to Bacteria and to Bulaga put him the starting lineup before he was ready. I know TT, Stubby, Campen and all the rest should be flogged and shunned for him not playing better, but there might just be a typical normal explanation that doesn't involve hyperbole like TT has done a 'shitty job.' Because if TT is (hyperbole) horrible, terrible, etc. etc., then there's no adjectives left for Sashi Brown, right?

All pros at every position at every tier on the depth chart. Anything else just proves that they don’t want to win at 1265.

[pbmax]

Will be fun again in four more years:

Flash Gordon @JOSH_GORDONXII
Great Win for them but let’s be serious.. Considering several of our disadvantages as a team, this kid couldn’t hold my jock strap on my worst day lol..@RandallTime

Damarious Randall @RandallTime
Damarious Randall Retweeted Flash Gordon
:laugh::laugh: You must be on that shit again

[George Cumby]

Lol.

No, Josh, Randall didn’t hold your jock, he put it up your ass.

Nice comeback by DR.

[mraynrand]

Example #10 billion that Twitter is totally bipolar

[Fritz]

It is unrealistic for fans to expect young players to be All-Pros right away.

It's unrealistic to expect hyperbolic fans to expect young players to need time to develop.

[Joemailman]

I've been defending Randall, but I don't think he should have made the comment referring to Gordon's past drug problems.

[Guiness]

I've been defending Randall, but I don't think he should have made the comment referring to Gordon's past drug problems.

Agreed, but I'm not surprised he flipped him off considering the jock strap comment.

[pbmax]

I've been defending Randall, but I don't think he should have made the comment referring to Gordon's past drug problems.

Its a cheap shot. Especially in light of Gordon's pretty well crafted response.

But he's a pretty emotional player, would rather have him riding high, so to speak.

[pbmax]

Of the three possible choices, it as the kick in the back of the player tripping over him.

@RapSheet
#Packers DB Davon House suffered a transverse process fracture in his back, source said. This season, players have come back in a week or 2.

[George Cumby]

I've been defending Randall, but I don't think he should have made the comment referring to Gordon's past drug problems.

Meh. I see your point but Gordon opened the door, he could have just not tweeted

[Joemailman]

Meh. I see your point but Gordon opened the door, he could have just not tweeted

I get what you're saying. I would just like to see Randall show a little more class than the most unreliable player on the worst franchise in recent NFL history.

[George Cumby]

I get what you're saying. I would just like to see Randall show a little more class than the most unreliable player on the worst franchise in recent NFL history.

Touché

[Joemailman]

Larry McCarren does a nice breakdown of Davis' punt return. http://www.packers.com/media-center/videos/Rock-Report-Breaking-ankles/073b3607-30ec-4a12-a450-dfa589bf656b

[texaspackerbacker]

I've been defending Randall, but I don't think he should have made the comment referring to Gordon's past drug problems.

That puke Gordon had no business putting Randall down like that. Randall was very justified in putting the arrogant damn druggie in his place.

[pbmax]

Let's remember one thing, Randall started this with some public bragging.

“He had one catch,” Randall said, via the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel. “Any more questions?”

[denverYooper]

I like my cornerbacks, like my quarterbacks, just a little bit cocky.

[Joemailman]

I like my cornerbacks, like my quarterbacks, just a little bit cocky.

Absolutely. The one catch comment, which was an answer to a question, was fine. It would have been best in my opinion for Randall to keep his comments about what happened on the field. After all, he won the battle.

[gbgary]

here's a good point...

matthews-probably-saved-the-packers-season/ (http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/12/11/how-clay-matthews-probably-saved-the-packers-season/)

[pbmax]

here's a good point...

matthews-probably-saved-the-packers-season/ (http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2017/12/11/how-clay-matthews-probably-saved-the-packers-season/)

That post is horse manure.

Kizer had already broken the pocket once, that always causes the backfield to recalibrate.

He then tried to throw which is why those DBs in the GIF are breaking on the shorter routes. He couldn't get the pass off and had to retreat.

At this point one guy was open deep with no one around but it would be a huge throw to get it to him because Kizer is 15 yards behind the LOS and others are chasing him.

This backfield looks no different than Rodgers running his extended offense, except the QB is Kizer and not Rodgers.

[Maxie the Taxi]

pb, How come in the cluster at the top of the screen there are three Packer defenders on two Browns receivers? It seems like when Crowell breaks down the sideline no Packer goes with him.

[pbmax]

pb, How come in the cluster at the top of the screen there are three Packer defenders on two Browns receivers? It seems like when Crowell breaks down the sideline no Packer goes with him.

Its not the teaching film you want for extended play coverage, but its pretty typical. Both Wilde and Huber are using it as evidence that the Defense might not even be able to be saved by Rodgers. Which is funny for Wilde who doesn't like to write X and O stuff because he knows he is out of his depth. That is not a slam, he has talked out it before. Its a tough beat to write because you are doing two jobs and you need to consult people outside the org to get answers.

The early portion of the video backs up to the earliest part of the clip (7 seconds in maybe). Three receivers up there, three DBs. Kizer has already half rolled out to his right/Defense left. That drew players up. Which put that RB even with the Packer outside DB.

He wanted to go to Gordon, but Randall was doing a veteran hold/blanket. But he could not setup to throw to another receiver as he had two Packers on him, so he retreats.

Packer CB forgets all about the RB at this point. Its not good coverage, but in an extended play with the QB running, DBs are trying to read the QB because the play has broken down and whatever patterns were being run are now being adjusted.

Kizer might have been trying to get to that side of the field, I did not get that sense from the TV angles but it looks like that is where his head was aiming at as he retreats. I don't think he is going down the middle deep as that coverage isn't terrible even if the WR has a step and a half. It would be a better than 40 yard throw while going backward.

The play was all Matthews and a nice jump ball catch from Jones. Prior to the QB retreat, it was some nice zone with good closing on their matchups. But the extended play coverage I bet is pretty typical not an indicator of the ruination of the Packer D.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Thanks for the explanation, pb. I am out of my depth too when it comes to x's and o's.

I've just seen this kind of...let's call it decision-making or communication...breakdown way too often, especially against elite QB's. If that was Newton or Wentz or Arod or even Big Ben instead of Kizer, the play might have ended in a TD.

We'll see this Sunday because we're playing Newton and McCaffrey who, like Arod, make a living on extending plays.:-|

[pbmax]

Thanks for the explanation, pb. I am out of my depth too when it comes to x's and o's.

I've just seen this kind of...let's call it decision-making or communication...breakdown way too often, especially against elite QB's. If that was Newton or Wentz or Arod or even Big Ben instead of Kizer, the play might have ended in a TD.

We'll see this Sunday because we're playing Newton and McCaffrey who, like Arod, make a living on extending plays.:-|

I imagine its a point of emphasis against QBs who escape to throw. And the rule of thumb is if you are the deepest you have to stay deep until you know the throw isn't coming toward you. Its possible they all thought he was going to continue forward and either throw or run when he rolled to his right at first. that probably broke typical coverage on that play. Pass rush always helps. Not even Rodgers sees all WR who break free while improvising.

[mraynrand]

PB, only my wife and a few drunks behind me can vouch for this, but I saw Crowell leaking out deep left sideline and was shouting, hands on head, that he was open. I was sure that was where Kizer was looking. But his footwork wasn't good due to the pressure and his arm is not terribly strong, so I'm not certain the ball would have gotten there even had Matthews not hit him. For all we know, he was just trying to throw it away. I think the Drunk to my left summarized it best: Keeyzeer saaaks!

[pbmax]

PB, only my wife and a few drunks behind me can vouch for this, but I saw Crowell leaking out deep left sideline and was shouting, hands on head, that he was open. I was sure that was where Kizer was looking. But his footwork wasn't good due to the pressure and his arm is not terribly strong, so I'm not certain the ball would have gotten there even had Matthews not hit him. For all we know, he was just trying to throw it away. I think the Drunk to my left summarized it best: Keeyzeer saaaks!

I'll have to go back to the DVR and look at the entire play but its possible no one picked up on the Crow at all.

However I think his QB had to notice it after he rolled the other way. Be an odd play to roll right to the hash mark then throw a deep wheel route to the opposite sideline. Pretty sure Kizer wanted Gordon on the right first.

I am not putting it past the D backfield to lose a guy out of the backfield, I am just saying this is not evidence of a beyond salvation defense.

[Fritz]

PB, only my wife and a few drunks behind me can vouch for this, but I saw Crowell leaking out deep left sideline and was shouting, hands on head, that he was open. I was sure that was where Kizer was looking. But his footwork wasn't good due to the pressure and his arm is not terribly strong, so I'm not certain the ball would have gotten there even had Matthews not hit him. For all we know, he was just trying to throw it away. I think the Drunk to my left summarized it best: Keeyzeer saaaks!


If he's like me at all, it sounds like he had too much coffee.

[mraynrand]

If he's like me at all, it sounds like he had too much coffee.

Maybe. He’s too young to be taking avodart

[mraynrand]

PB. You are right. I think he saw Crowell after coming back to the Left. Like I say I think he saw him and was going there with the ball but there’s no reason to believe he would have completed that pass. But it doesn’t make sense to parse it any further because your have to say something like “OK well if he only had x amount of pressure without getting his arm hit he would have completed the pass.” I don’t have any problem saying it was a great game changing play by Clay. Give the guy some props - he wanted to show off for the ancestral home town.

[denverYooper]

PB. You are right. I think he saw Crowell after coming back to the Left. Like I say I think he saw him and was going there with the ball but there’s no reason to believe he would have completed that pass. But it doesn’t make sense to parse it any further because your have to say something like “OK well if he only had x amount of pressure without getting his arm hit he would have completed the pass.” I don’t have any problem saying it was a great game changing play by Clay. Give the guy some props - he wanted to show off for the ancestral home town.

He remembered the face of his father.

[woodbuck27]

Funny how stats can work out that way sometimes.

:whaa:

[woodbuck27]

I've been defending Randall, but I don't think he should have made the comment referring to Gordon's past drug problems.

Soon hopefully we will see Randall not wearing a Green Bay Packe Uni.

He plainly just SUCKS.

[denverYooper]

Soon hopefully we will see Randall not wearing a Green Bay Packe Uni.

He plainly just SUCKS.

No

[gbgary]

That post is horse manure.

Kizer had already broken the pocket once, that always causes the backfield to recalibrate.

He then tried to throw which is why those DBs in the GIF are breaking on the shorter routes. He couldn't get the pass off and had to retreat.

At this point one guy was open deep with no one around but it would be a huge throw to get it to him because Kizer is 15 yards behind the LOS and others are chasing him.

This backfield looks no different than Rodgers running his extended offense, except the QB is Kizer and not Rodgers.

how is it manure? they went into a scramble drill and had two guys open (one uncovered). clay hitting his arm made the pop up. seems clear to me.

[gbgary]

there’s no reason to believe he would have completed that pass.

why not? young athletic guy with a strong arm. had his arm not been hit all he really had to do was keep it in bounds for it to be completed.

[gbgary]

Pretty sure Kizer wanted Gordon on the right first.



that would have been a much harder throw (and catch for that matter) than going down the side line to an uncovered guy.

[Pugger]

Soon hopefully we will see Randall not wearing a Green Bay Packe Uni.

He plainly just SUCKS.

What have you been watching these past few weeks???

[woodbuck27]

What have you been watching these past few weeks???

Reality. He's a fricken 'Hot Head'. I'm not a Damarious Randall Fan. I don't like how he plays his position. He has the back of his head to the ball too often to defend passes. I watch him a lot. The Green Bay Packers NO. 23 has a lot to learn and defending. ie look at this photo and where the ball is and where Damarious Randall's head is. At least on this play he got his head back around to try to locate the ball when over the top too often he doesn't turn his head to the pass play and locate the ball and defend.

Do we blame that on Coaching?

https://www.ohio.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Josh-Gordon.jpg

Browns wide receiver Josh Gordon, Packers cornerback Damarious Randall exchange insults on Twitter
Published: December 11, 2017 - 10:47 AM | Updated: December 11, 2017 - 12:27 PM

https://www.ohio.com/akron/sports/browns/browns-wide-receiver-josh-gordon-packers-cornerback-damarious-randall-exchange-insults-on-twitter

[mraynrand]

^^^ That's pretty good veteran technique. Head is turned to the ball, so refs let a lot of hand-checking and contact go. He's got a hold on Gordon's arm enough to hinder the catch. Well done, D-man!

But I agree that he's immature. But he's come a long way from where he was earlier this season.

[ThunderDan]

Funny how stats can work out that way sometimes.


:whaa:

Is that the summation of your posts in this thread or a response to the above?

[hoosier]

I'll have to go back to the DVR and look at the entire play but its possible no one picked up on the Crow at all.

However I think his QB had to notice it after he rolled the other way. Be an odd play to roll right to the hash mark then throw a deep wheel route to the opposite sideline. Pretty sure Kizer wanted Gordon on the right first.

I am not putting it past the D backfield to lose a guy out of the backfield, I am just saying this is not evidence of a beyond salvation defense.

It was at least partially a zone coverage and Josh Jones was in the area that Crowell passed through on his way up the sideline. But the TE was also in that zone and Jones had to pick one. When Kizer came off his first read and got in trouble, Jones (correctly, I would guess) went with the guy who was running the short out, which would have been an easier thrown for Kizer to make as he was scrambling to his left and backpeddling. Crowell at that point came wide open but I'm not sure even ARod could have made that throw.

[channtheman]

I think that part of it is that Rodgers beats really shitty teams instead of just tying them in regulation time.

Pretty much. Rodgers doesn't get a 4th quarter comeback against the Browns cause he doesn't need one.

[pbmax]

OK, back with the DVR and the Browns game, first drive of OT. Its 3rd and 1 and the entire play design and Packer defense are set for a short yardage play.

Browns in 11 personnel I believe (definitely 1 back) and they show balanced formation (2 receivers outside each tackle) out of huddle but quickly motion to four man bunch on (Defense's) right. Packers are in single high safety with Jones and Burnett in slot, Randall and Hawkins outside and HaHa deep.

Looks like man and they are doing the zone to matchup man thing deal with the bunch with Jones and Hawkins hanging back to take last man or deep outside route. Burnett is pressing the receiver on the LOS. Randall is one on one with Gordon.

At the snap Kizer looks immediately to left for Gordon on the slant but Randall is bumping him and in his front pocket, not trailing, making a slant throw a problem. Kizer cannot wait a moment because Matthews has pushed the RT into Kizer. He steps OUTSIDE to give himself a new throwing lane (still looking for Gordon) because Matthews is there with an upraised arm to get in the slant throwing lane.

This backfires because Matthews is still there and picks off Daniels blocker as Daniels runs to meet Kizer outside. That forces Kizer to retreat back toward the middle. That brings Ryan into the backfield because he has no near him to cover. The TE/WR (81) route in the middle is with Burnett.

Ponch, Burnett, Jones and Hawkins are dealing with the four receivers on the other side. But Kizer bailing outside on Matthew first rush brings Dix up on the left to help Randall who is the obvious target and then to chase Kizer. This leaves no one deep, which is a fine call for a short play designed to convert 3rd and 1, but is a terrible design to stop two deep routes on an extended play that we are about to have.

Nice veteran play by Brooks who hangs back on his rush in case that bunch went bubble screen. He either intercepts it or plants someone in the turf. When RB and TE both head outside, he rushes.

If you want proof the play is for Gordon, the backside receivers not only don't get a look, but the curl is covered, Jones is on the flat the TE is running but the RB (uncovered) is running a flat as well, two steps in front of the TE. As Kizer first breaks the pockets, all Browns receivers head are looking for the ball to come out.

Jon and Pinch are playing zone and patrolling the first down line. It was a good defensive call for this play BUT someone did blow coverage on the RB as they don't need five interior defenders with 3 out of 5 receivers running outside routes.

[pbmax]

Literally next frame is Ryan, Daniels and Matthews 1.5 steps from Kizer with no blockers. He is looking left and does seem to see the RB who has covered his duplicate flat route to a wheel route and is headed deep with no coverage and no deep safety.

This is a play where even a quick sack is a coverage sack because the Packers took away their first two choices with a nice defensive call.

But the extended play has caught someone out of position and revealed a blown coverage. Ponch is dropping into a zone to make a slant hard, checks the inside receiver (Burnett is there) and does not see the RB headed to the flat. He either missed a call or the player unless his job was strictly short zone and Ha Ha had ultimate deep responsibility. Seems kinda weird not to cover a RB on a 3rd and 1 short route though. Brooks seems to sense action the other way as mentioned before but he also may have made a flat throw to the right harder by being in the pass lane. Nice play.

Kizer by now is DEFINITELY looking for the deep play because he waves someone deep. From the sideline it looks like he sees Crow, but from the end zone cam (both of them) it looks like he is set to throw the middle route that Burnett was on (and was behind by a step when it went deep). But by the time gets to his windup, Matthews is on him again, having avoided the blockers who re-entered the play when Kizer wisely went back into the pocket.

Kizer is throwing going backward off his back foot at the 19. If Matthews had not touched him, it was still going to be a wild ass throw. Hard to say but Burnett did fall down when 81 ran back to the throw. Depending on where Kizer puts that throw, Burnett might have had a much better play on it. After he throws, 81 and Burnett are past the 50, meaning its likely got to be a 40+ yard throw. When the ball was throw, Burnett and 81 were on the Packers 44 when they turned around. 81 had a nice elbow to get loose of MB.

[Maxie the Taxi]

It was at least partially a zone coverage and Josh Jones was in the area that Crowell passed through on his way up the sideline. But the TE was also in that zone and Jones had to pick one. When Kizer came off his first read and got in trouble, Jones (correctly, I would guess) went with the guy who was running the short out, which would have been an easier thrown for Kizer to make as he was scrambling to his left and backpeddling. Crowell at that point came wide open but I'm not sure even ARod could have made that throw.Maybe Cam Newton?


http://www.panthers.com/media-vault/videos/Devin-Funchess-18-yard-TD-catch/6a8b5211-8844-4674-9e96-00b832821644

[Harlan Huckleby]

Literally next frame is Ryan, Daniels and Matthews 1.5 steps from Kizer with no blockers.

This close to rolling out the the Zapruder tape.