DOUGHERTY....."HOW COULD THE PACKERS LET HYDE AND HAYWARD GET AWAY "

[Bretsky]

Interesting read

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2017/12/27/dougherty-how-did-packers-let-casey-hayward-micah-hyde-get-away/981940001/

[wist43]

This is an easy one... cuz they can't evaluate or coach any position on defense worth a damn.

[wist43]

Neither player would have risen to the level they're at now had they stayed in green bay.

[mraynrand]

Neither player would have risen to the level they're at now had they stayed in green bay.

they're not at a different level. They're just healthy and playing with defenses with better overall pass rush.

[Bretsky]

they're not at a different level. They're just healthy and playing with defenses with better overall pass rush.

Pass rush or not Hayward is way better than any CB on our roster right now IMO

I still tend to think Hyde benefits from the Bills pass rush

[mraynrand]

Hayward is way better than any CB on our roster right now IMO

That's possible. He looked good the few games I saw him. I don't think it's be true next year, unless he's all pro. I expect Randall, King and Jones all to make big leaps, APRH. One of them will be just as good if not better.

And Hayward does benefit from a good surrounding defense and injury free seasons.

[pbmax]

Hyde would not be a starting safety on the Packers. Does anyone remember watching him?

[mraynrand]

Hyde would not be a starting safety on the Packers. Does anyone remember watching him?

Great guy. Assignment sure. A little slow. A little late. A little less athletic than you need. Bad hands. Packer people 😀

[pbmax]

Great guy. Assignment sure. A little slow. A little late. A little less athletic than you need. Bad hands. Packer people ��

People are losing their minds over him and its just in comparison to the D this year. Dougherty writes that he was on the field for the Atlanta game, like the other three years of disaster happened on someone else's watch.

Packers needed him to play hybrid S/CB. He was the best they had at it.

They didn't need him at safety once they had Dix.

Losing stinks mostly because people get dumb second guessing why. He had five interceptions. If he repeats the effort like Hayward, then hats off. But its one year for a player that had trouble breaking into the starting lineup.

[RashanGary]

Ted is paid to know Hayward was as good as he is. He had him up close and personal. But Dom likes his man coverage so much. It wasn’t quite the right fit. I don’t know exactly what happened there, but it’s too bad, for sure. TT is not perfect. He’s probably the best or near, but not perfect

[woodbuck27]

This is an easy one... cuz they can't evaluate or coach any position on defense worth a damn.

That's obviously the case.

TT''s and MM's Draft and 'Develop Program' is a pure sham. A pure joke on Packer Nation.

The day that TT and MM are finally gone from Green Bay will be a great day for Packer Nation.

[pbmax]

Ted is paid to know Hayward was as good as he is. He had him up close and personal. But Dom likes his man coverage so much. It wasn’t quite the right fit. I don’t know exactly what happened there, but it’s too bad, for sure. TT is not perfect. He’s probably the best or near, but not perfect

Its price. Everyone saw him play pretty well a year after the injury. He wasn't the same dynamic player, but he was still good. He could also play Zone.

Identifying Heyward wasn't the problem. It was projecting him to start ahead of the younger ones.

Dougherty writes you need more than 3 CBs. Well no shite Pete, thanks for that bit of 1994 wisdom. But how many teams pay the 3rd corner $5 mil per year?

[Bossman641]

Typical benefit of hindsight article. Honestly, I expect better than this from the JS.

Literally nobody was upset over losing Hyde this year. He is what he is...a jack of all trades who was consistently a step slow in coverage. We all pretty much laughed at Buffalo for paying him as much as they did. The idea that we should have re-signed him to play full time safety instead of Burnett or HHCD is asinine.

As far as Hayward, he was coming off 3 straight disappointing years. After his rookie year, I figured he'd be one of the best corners in the league for years to come. He had the injury in 2013 and we spent all of 2014 and 2015 waiting for the old Hayward to come back. The beat writers consistently wrote how he was a step slow even in practice. For a guy who who was never that quick, but was instead what I would call smooth, the thought was the injury had robbed him of the speed he needed. You don't pay those kind of guys 5-6M when you already have Shields and a pair of 1st and 2nd rounders waiting in the wings. Also, it's not as if Hayward was some no doubt free agent who had multiple teams chasing him. His market was pretty cool. Hayward is certainly playing lights out, no doubt about that. He's also playing with Joey Bosa and Melvin Ingram on one of the best pass rushes in the league. And just to bring this thing full circle, Bosa was the 3rd overall pick in 2016. Ingram was the 18th overall pick in 2012. The Packers didn't have a shot at either one of them.

[Carolina_Packer]

Typical benefit of hindsight article. Honestly, I expect better than this from the JS.

Literally nobody was upset over losing Hyde this year. He is what he is...a jack of all trades who was consistently a step slow in coverage. We all pretty much laughed at Buffalo for paying him as much as they did. The idea that we should have re-signed him to play full time safety instead of Burnett or HHCD is asinine.

As far as Hayward, he was coming off 3 straight disappointing years. After his rookie year, I figured he'd be one of the best corners in the league for years to come. He had the injury in 2013 and we spent all of 2014 and 2015 waiting for the old Hayward to come back. The beat writers consistently wrote how he was a step slow even in practice. For a guy who who was never that quick, but was instead what I would call smooth, the thought was the injury had robbed him of the speed he needed. You don't pay those kind of guys 5-6M when you already have Shields and a pair of 1st and 2nd rounders waiting in the wings. Also, it's not as if Hayward was some no doubt free agent who had multiple teams chasing him. His market was pretty cool. Hayward is certainly playing lights out, no doubt about that. He's also playing with Joey Bosa and Melvin Ingram on one of the best pass rushes in the league. And just to bring this thing full circle, Bosa was the 3rd overall pick in 2016. Ingram was the 18th overall pick in 2012. The Packers didn't have a shot at either one of them.

It's also easy to say all these things when the Packers have suffered another unfortunate rash of injuries in the secondary. If they were not out for the season already, they were hobbled. The Packers were down to starting Josh Hawkins at CB last week. Sure, we would have loved to have started someone better, as in the guys we are already paying who got hurt, which is unfortunate.

As for letting them go, that's a tricky business. Logically, what does TT do with the young talent that he drafted to shore up the under-manned secondary, which at one point included both Hyde and Hayward. If they had been able to perform at a high enough level to begin with, perhaps they wouldn't have drafted Randall and Rollins back to back in 2015, but they did, so unless you're going to pay everyone back there, someone's gotta go. It just sucks that the Packers haven't been able to keep some of the replacements healthy enough to keep developing.

[woodbuck27]

I'll say this for Packerrats. Members here do an absolutely tremendous job of defending every move that Packer GM Ted Thompson makes or doesn't make. At Packerrats Ted Thompson is Packer Nation GOD.

For myself and seeing it all; I just get to this:

http://geekologie.com/2011/05/25/btilc-ftw.jpg

:huh:

[Bretsky]

Hyde would not be a starting safety on the Packers. Does anyone remember watching him?

stating Hyde is better than Dix as a fact IMO was a big stretch.

I'd like to wait another year or two to see if that is right

Hayward...we have guys paid...and that included the coaching staff, to make sure this does not occur

We just f'cked up royally on that one

[Bretsky]

If they had been able to perform at a high enough level to begin with, perhaps they wouldn't have drafted Randall and Rollins back to back in 2015, but they did, so unless you're going to pay everyone back there, someone's gotta go[/B]. It just sucks that the Packers haven't been able to keep some of the replacements healthy enough to keep developing.


It's kind of their job to forecast who is going to be players and who is not. I don't know what happened with Hayward but they DESERVE criticism there.
Had they made the right call mayb we draft a pass rusher or two

[Pugger]

stating Hyde is better than Dix as a fact IMO was a big stretch.

I'd like to wait another year or two to see if that is right

Hayward...we have guys paid...and that included the coaching staff, to make sure this does not occur

We just f'cked up royally on that one

Dix had just finished playing so well that he was voted 2nd team All-Pro. I don't recall people wringing their hands over losing Hyde for the $$ the Bills paid him. Unfortunately Ha Ha had a down year and Hyde played well for Buffalo. This is quite the convenient hindsight article.

[woodbuck27]

Dix had just finished playing so well that he was voted 2nd team All-Pro. I don't recall people wringing their hands over losing Hyde for the $$ the Bills paid him. Unfortunately Ha Ha had a down year and Hyde played well for Buffalo. This is quite the convenient hindsight article.

You missed your calling as 'a Star' Trial Defense Lawyer. :-)

[Bossman641]

I'll say this for Packerrats. Members here do an absolutely tremendous job of defending every move that Packer GM Ted Thompson makes or doesn't make. At Packerrats Ted Thompson is Packer Nation GOD.

TT has messed up plenty but this article is a stretch. Hindsight is always 20/20.

[Carolina_Packer]

It's kind of their job to forecast who is going to be players and who is not. I don't know what happened with Hayward but they DESERVE criticism there.
Had they made the right call mayb we draft a pass rusher or two

A reasonable point. If TT signs Hayward in 2016, and stays put in the first round last year, that pick could have become T.J. Watt. Obviously, at this point, the Packers need a young pass rusher with his arrow pointing up. No disrespect to Biegel, who could be something, or Fackrell, who may have a higher ceiling, but so far has had modest returns, T.J. Watt was lined up to be the obvious choice, had Green Bay either signed Hayward the year before or signed a free agent CB last off-season and not had to wait out the development cycle of King, who got hurt anyway, which unfortunately seems to be a Packer thing.

[mraynrand]

A reasonable point. If TT signs Hayward in 2016, and stays put in the first round last year, that pick could have become T.J. Watt. Obviously, at this point, the Packers need a young pass rusher with his arrow pointing up. No disrespect to Biegel, who could be something, or Fackrell, who may have a higher ceiling, but so far has had modest returns, T.J. Watt was lined up to be the obvious choice, had Green Bay either signed Hayward the year before or signed a free agent CB last off-season and not had to wait out the development cycle of King, who got hurt anyway, which unfortunately seems to be a Packer thing.

Sure, but Hayward could have blown out his hammy again. Plus they sign him and then they don't have cash for Bennett. Where would they be then?

[Bretsky]

TT has messed up plenty but this article is a stretch. Hindsight is always 20/20.


agree with you....especially on Hyde...but with that being said, I'd tend to agree with Woody's point

[Bretsky]

Sure, but Hayward could have blown out his hammy again. Plus they sign him and then they don't have cash for Bennett. Where would they be then?


Green Bay would have still had funds for Bennett ...........who .....fwiw.....I was happy about.....but I was wrong.

[Bretsky]

A reasonable point. If TT signs Hayward in 2016, and stays put in the first round last year, that pick could have become T.J. Watt. Obviously, at this point, the Packers need a young pass rusher with his arrow pointing up. No disrespect to Biegel, who could be something, or Fackrell, who may have a higher ceiling, but so far has had modest returns, T.J. Watt was lined up to be the obvious choice, had Green Bay either signed Hayward the year before or signed a free agent CB last off-season and not had to wait out the development cycle of King, who got hurt anyway, which unfortunately seems to be a Packer thing.

:bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap:

[Pugger]

Sure, but Hayward could have blown out his hammy again. Plus they sign him and then they don't have cash for Bennett. Where would they be then?

We would have kept Cook instead of Bennett?

When we let Hayward go we had a safety who was just voted 2nd team All-Pro, Randall and Rollins looked promising and Sam Shields hadn't had that concussion yet so losing Casey didn't seem like a huge deal at the time.

[pbmax]

We have to be realistic about Hayward's level here. I expect Pro Bowl votes, but is he going to be an All Pro? Even 2nd team? I don't think so, but I've been wrong before.

So I don''t think he proved to be all world, but he did prove his rookie year was no fluke and he was probably better than House for Packers comparison.

But at the time, he wasn't going to be #1 with Shields on the team and he might not have been #2 with questions about being able to handle full time duties on the outside (that could very much be a coaching/scheme decision). So he's a#3 CB (possibly #2) at $5 mil per season with 2 young players. He wasn't let go because no one saw his talent, he was let go because he was no sure thing at that price.

It paid off handsomely for the Chargers and their scheme. Its not always going to work out for the Packers.

But this is another good example of Ted and Dom not being able to find common ground on talent.