Who should be the next GM?

[call_me_ishmael]

Who should be the GM? Please post your response and why you voted this way.

[call_me_ishmael]

I would personally throw Seattle a R4, bring Schneider home and call it a day. I am a huge fan of what Dorsey and Schneider have done, but the advantage goes to Schneider in my opinion.

[texaspackerbacker]

My first choice would be somebody not part of the organization now.

[woodbuck27]

Observing the certain woes and the Seattle Seahawks and a decline this Season it seems a good time to bring John Schneider HOME to Green Bay.

[pbmax]

Is the right hand man of Ozzie Newsmen still waiting for a job?

I would seriously consider that guy. Eric DeCosta.

wist wants a defense? That is your guy.

But I think this is internal and the Packers will interview Highsmith to satisfy the Rooney Rule and hire Russ Ball. Wolf and Gutenkist will get new titles and raises, possibly one will be in charge of draft.

I could live with the arrangement as long as Ball gets to hire and fire everyone.

[pbmax]

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/01/01/packers-replace-gm-ted-thompson/994801001/

That link has been listed before but Silverstein has an interesting addition:


NFL Network first reported that Thompson no longer would be the general manager and a replacement would be sought. Other reports suggested the Packers would establish new roles for existing members of the department in a job-sharing arrangement, but the source said that was inaccurate.

The Packers will conduct a full search for a new general manager.

The search will not be limited to just in-house candidates, of whom there are several, including director of football operations Eliot Wolf, director of player personnel Brian Gutekunst, senior personnel advistor Alonzo Highsmith and vice president of football administration/player finance Russ Ball.


If true, this is going to take time and the DC might have to wait.

[George Cumby]

http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/01/01/packers-replace-gm-ted-thompson/994801001/

That link has been listed before but Silverstein has an interesting addition:




If true, this is going to take time and the DC might have to wait.

And M3 is gonna be on a short leash.

[pbmax]

Wow, this seems overstating it. At least one stays, and becomes the heir apparent with any ounce of good fortune:


If Murphy chooses Ball, whose primary duties are negotiating contracts but who has been studying personnel evaluation under Thompson, he almost certainly would lose all three personnel men, a source familiar with the Packers' front office said.

His hiring would signal to them that they had no chance of becoming general manager in Green Bay and would be better off elsewhere.

[pbmax]

And M3 is gonna be on a short leash.

Yeah, he would be. But its possible Mort was right and it will be all internal. The leak to Silverstein and JSO might just be cover for the Rooney Rule, though Highsmith would cover it.

[Bretsky]

Is the right hand man of Ozzie Newsmen still waiting for a job?

I would seriously consider that guy. Eric DeCosta.

wist wants a defense? That is your guy.

But I think this is internal and the Packers will interview Highsmith to satisfy the Rooney Rule and hire Russ Ball. Wolf and Gutenkist will get new titles and raises, possibly one will be in charge of draft.

I could live with the arrangement as long as Ball gets to hire and fire everyone.


F'ck Russ Ball; might as well just go interview capologists

Hire a personnel guy; the best one you can find to direct the best scouts you can find.

I'll take Alonzo flippin Highsmith over Russ Ball and he'd be the 3rd guy in my preference out of the GB guys

[Bretsky]

The non puke on myself if they are hired options are John Dorsey, John Schnieder, and the guy who's been groomed for years to lead them team and take them to the next level. The son of the best GM I've seen in Green Bay. The guy who directed my first RatBowl Championship :)))

[pbmax]

F'ck Russ Ball; might as well just go interview capologists

Hire a personnel guy; the best one you can find to direct the best scouts you can find.

I'll take Alonzo flippin Highsmith over Russ Ball and he'd be the 3rd guy in my preference out of the GB guys

The Eagles guy Roseman is a former a capologist.

Panthers guy (now Giants guy) Gettleman was a reporter. You need best decision maker, not the best scout.

[Bretsky]

Wow, this seems overstating it. At least one stays, and becomes the heir apparent with any ounce of good fortune:

I would agree; if you hire CapeyJoe those three leave with the middle finger raised to Mark Murphy

[pbmax]

I would agree; if you hire CapeyJoe those three leave with the middle finger raised to Mark Murphy

Kinda dumb. You go from being #3 or 4 in a four way with Ted to #2 with a cap guy. You want influence, you stay.

If they all leave they are not all going to be GMs in the first year gone. Seems like reporter hyperbole.

[Bretsky]

The Eagles guy Roseman is a former a capologist.

Panthers guy (now Giants guy) Gettleman was a reporter. You need best decision maker, not the best scout.


The Eagle guy knows personnel

A reporter ? good idea....let's hire Bob McGinn; I'm more entertained by him than CapeyJoe

[Bretsky]

Kinda dumb. You go from being #3 or 4 in a four way with Ted to #2 with a cap guy. You want influence, you stay.

If they all leave they are not all going to be GMs in the first year gone. Seems like reporter hyperbole.


If they hire CapeyJoe over you ya gotta feel you are not valued in the organization. And obviously if hanging around has not benetitted them when Ted leaves why stay.

[pbmax]

The Eagle guy knows personnel

A reporter ? good idea....let's hire Bob McGinn; I'm more entertained by him than CapeyJoe

Eagles guy only knows personnel because he crossed over, same as Ball would be doing.

The only problem with this line of succession is that there is a Jet GM who muddies the water severely. :lol:

[Bretsky]

FYI- John Schneider won't get an interview in Green Bay unless Seattle gives permission for him to make a lateral move. His last deal eliminated his out clause to explore Green Bay

[pbmax]

If they hire CapeyJoe over you ya gotta feel you are not valued in the organization. And obviously if hanging around has not benetitted them when Ted leaves why stay.

Its illogical to feel so wronged that you leave and make a lateral move to another organization who might not hire you to be GM later. Especially when there are 3 of you who are candidates on the same team. Stay and work yourself up.

[Bretsky]

Is it remotely possible to hire John Dorsey since he just took a long term deal with Cleveland ?

[call_me_ishmael]

Is it remotely possible to hire John Dorsey since he just took a long term deal with Cleveland ?

Almost certainly not. It would be highly unprofessional of him. Of course, this is a results business so if he got results, all would be forgiven probably.

[Bretsky]

Its illogical to feel so wronged that you leave and make a lateral move to another organization who might not hire you to be GM later. Especially when there are 3 of you who are candidates on the same team. Stay and work yourself up.

They have been doing that and waiting in the wings. Wolf and Gunekunst are both at risk of leaving; to be honest if one is hired over the other the one not hired might leave. They both get interviews and looks each year.

I'm not sure anybody has ever looked at Highsmith though.

I'll take any outside Joe over Russ Ball. We've always had good capologists in Green Bay. There are plenty out there.

[Bretsky]

Its illogical to feel so wronged that you leave and make a lateral move to another organization who might not hire you to be GM later. Especially when there are 3 of you who are candidates on the same team. Stay and work yourself up.

It happens in football, basketball and baseball.

Milwaukee Bucks last year

[woodbuck27]

Is it remotely possible to hire John Dorsey since he just took a long term deal with Cleveland ?

Yes.

[pbmax]

It happens in football, basketball and baseball.

Milwaukee Bucks last year

The Bucks hired the guy and told him he was the heir apparent. When his boss retired, they hesitated to give him the job.

That is different than three executives all being eligible for a promotion in the organization. They cannot all have been promised the job.

[pbmax]

Almost certainly not. It would be highly unprofessional of him. Of course, this is a results business so if he got results, all would be forgiven probably.

If he was promised full control of the Head Coach and doesn't have it, he might have some leverage. :D

[woodbuck27]

FYI- John Schneider won't get an interview in Green Bay unless Seattle gives permission for him to make a lateral move. His last deal eliminated his out clause to explore Green Bay

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17166578/seattle-seahawks-gm-john-schneider-says-contract-does-not-contain-clause-which-allow-leave-green-bay

Seahawks GM: New deal does not have out clause to leave for Packers

Seattle needs to make a lot of off Season decisions and given your point and John Schneider's last Contract. In fact he might not be realistically available.

[Bretsky]

The Bucks hired the guy and told him he was the heir apparent. When his boss retired, they hesitated to give him the job.

That is different than three executives all being eligible for a promotion in the organization. They cannot all have been promised the job.


I don't recall them telling him that but I think it was silently understood that was the plan
And it would not surprise me if somebody in GB was given that impression hoping they'd hang around.
Had anybody even interviewed Russ Ball for anything ? No reason to promise him a thing. The personnel guys are the worries.
Would not surprise me if MM wanted to move on this in fear he loses one of the two who keep getting interest.

[Bretsky]

If he was promised full control of the Head Coach and doesn't have it, he might have some leverage. :D

Had not thought of that

I'd be excited with either John or Wolfy Jr

[woodbuck27]

Kinda dumb. You go from being #3 or 4 in a four way with Ted to #2 with a cap guy. You want influence, you stay.

If they all leave they are not all going to be GMs in the first year gone. Seems like reporter hyperbole.

" Seems like reporter hyperbole." pbmax

YUP. These are Green Bay Packer Career Guys.

If one is hired (internally) as the New Packer GM; and that might be the Legendary Packer GM Ron Wolfe's son Elliot Wolfe (?).

Why would the other three all of a sudden in concert get miffed and leave Green Bay?

Will one or more desire retirement?

Is there any real reason to covet Packer Personnel people given Green Bay's results since winning the last Super Bowl?

Nope !

[Joemailman]

It's my understanding that Schneider shares decision making responsibilities with Pete Carroll. Would that create an out in his contract if the Packers offered him full control of football operations?

[woodbuck27]

Who in Blazes wants Ted Thompson? :whaa:

Hahahaha 'that's hilarious.

[Pugger]

I went with Brian Gutekunst. Just a gut feeling.

[Pugger]

Observing the certain woes and the Seattle Seahawks and a decline this Season it seems a good time to bring John Schneider HOME to Green Bay.

If things are going down hill in Seattle do we really want him right now?

[Pugger]

Yeah, he would be. But its possible Mort was right and it will be all internal. The leak to Silverstein and JSO might just be cover for the Rooney Rule, though Highsmith would cover it.

Does the Rooney Rule cover front office personnel or just coaches?

[pbmax]

Does the Rooney Rule cover front office personnel or just coaches?

I believe it covers at least GMs.

[pbmax]

I don't recall them telling him that but I think it was silently understood that was the plan
And it would not surprise me if somebody in GB was given that impression hoping they'd hang around.
Had anybody even interviewed Russ Ball for anything ? No reason to promise him a thing. The personnel guys are the worries.
Would not surprise me if MM wanted to move on this in fear he loses one of the two who keep getting interest.

Ball has had interviews denied by the Packers

Mickey Loomis is another cap guy in New Orleans.

[Fritz]

FYI- John Schneider won't get an interview in Green Bay unless Seattle gives permission for him to make a lateral move. His last deal eliminated his out clause to explore Green Bay

I don't understand all the Schneider love. The Seahawks missed the playoffs this year after not having been to the SB for a few years, and seem to have lost talent that has not been replaced.

Isn't that why so many people wanted Ted gone??

[call_me_ishmael]

It's my understanding that Schneider shares decision making responsibilities with Pete Carroll. Would that create an out in his contract if the Packers offered him full control of football operations?

I was trying to find this info out last night but was not successful. Either way, if Schneider really wanted to leave, I don't think Seattle would want to employ someone that doesn't want to be there, so a trade for maybe an R4 or R5 could probably get him.

[Bossman641]

I don't understand all the Schneider love. The Seahawks missed the playoffs this year after not having been to the SB for a few years, and seem to have lost talent that has not been replaced.

Isn't that why so many people wanted Ted gone??

They've also used up a few high round draft picks in trades. I don't get it either but he fits the "go all-in" mindset that some posters are looking for.

[pbmax]

Ball has had interviews denied by the Packers

Mickey Loomis is another cap guy in New Orleans.

Can't find the reference for Ball being denied interview requests from outside the organization. Might have made that up.

But one thing I was reminded of going back, Ball's connection inside 1265 is to McCarthy. Ball worked for the Chiefs with M3, got suggested to be the cap guy for the Saints via McCarthy and probably got a recommendation in GB from him.

Ted and Murphy clearly fell in love with him as he has kept accumulating responsibilities, titles and salaries. But Ball could be the most likely to hang on to McCarthy.

[pbmax]

The stupidity is rising. Spoon hinted at this but Cohen goes full in on the lack of experience among backups in the secondary for the trouble this year and last. Ha Ha Clinton Dix agrees:


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSi9_N-XkAIZJKu.jpg


I guess Cohen and Dix believe Jarrett Bush, Hyde and Chris Banjo were high priced FA acquisitions.

Dumbasses.

https://twitter.com/Michael_Cohen13/status/948216636506505216

[texaspackerbacker]

I voted "other". I have a bad feeling that all of these current or former Packer personnel people are disciples of Ted. I would like (but do not expect) somebody from elsewhere who has a track record of bringing in free agents - not just the undrafted kind. Exactly who is chosen is not as important as the mindset of the person they choose.

[pbmax]

Ryan Wood @ByRyanWood
Alonzo Highsmith, the #Packers long-time senior personnel executive, is expected to join GM John Dorsey's staff with the Cleveland Browns, a source said. Currently working out the final details. A major loss for Packers scouting department.

[ThunderDan]

Ryan Wood @ByRyanWood
Alonzo Highsmith, the #Packers long-time senior personnel executive, is expected to join GM John Dorsey's staff with the Cleveland Browns, a source said. Currently working out the final details. A major loss for Packers scouting department.

Cleveland is finally doing it right. Hired a GM with a good track record and poaching front office talent from one of the top teams in the league year in and year out. Hope the owner gives them more than 2 years to be competitive.

[George Cumby]

Losing Highsmith = not good

[pbmax]

Losing Highsmith = not good

Losing some of them is inevitable.

Look at it this way: now Wolf and Gutekunst have one less reason/spot to run to.

[mraynrand]

Just as an aside: If TT is such a bone head fuck-up, then why are all these organizations grabbing up his front office guys.

The passing of time happens and it looks like it was TT's time this year. I'm not terribly sad that he's going (except and unless he really is physically/mentally compromised). I am appreciative of the great run he had and think it is going to be very difficult to get the same out of the next guy. It's almost as unlikely as two back-to-back HOF QBs. Wanna try for three?

[Joemailman]

It's pretty impressive that there are 3 or 4 guys here who he hired and/or promoted that are considered serious candidates for his job. His eye for talent extended past the plying field.

[denverYooper]

I don't understand all the Schneider love. The Seahawks missed the playoffs this year after not having been to the SB for a few years, and seem to have lost talent that has not been replaced.

Isn't that why so many people wanted Ted gone??

Schneider put together a good D right off the bat but has not been able to put together a competent OL to save his life and has struggled to re-stock their D.

[QBME]

The top three candidates have already been identified, and have been for a while. We're screwed if all of them decline. Then we're down to Fangio types.

[Bretsky]

Can't find the reference for Ball being denied interview requests from outside the organization. Might have made that up.

But one thing I was reminded of going back, Ball's connection inside 1265 is to McCarthy. Ball worked for the Chiefs with M3, got suggested to be the cap guy for the Saints via McCarthy and probably got a recommendation in GB from him.

Ted and Murphy clearly fell in love with him as he has kept accumulating responsibilities, titles and salaries. But Ball could be the most likely to hang on to McCarthy.



I don't think anybody has come calling for Ball

[pbmax]

Schneider put together a good D right off the bat but has not been able to put together a competent OL to save his life and has struggled to re-stock their D.

Trading his All Pro center for a TE the offense never fully used was a special self inflicted wound.

[pbmax]

The top three candidates have already been identified, and have been for a while. We're screwed if all of them decline. Then we're down to Fangio types.

I'm confused enough as it is, don't start mixing GM candidates with DC candidates on me.

[woodbuck27]

I do not TRUST CEO Mark Murphy after it's all coming out (** and THE TRUTH) to be a Man that can make the best decision.

Clearly (and **) CEO Mark Murphy isn't a Man of Vision or why did he have to be approached by a 45 Member Packer Board Executive Committee to remove TT as the Packer GM; when it was too obvious Ted Thompson wasn't fit healthwise to handle the Packer GM's job?

[QBME]

I'm confused enough as it is, don't start mixing GM candidates with DC candidates on me.

You're right. My bad. Sorry.

[pbmax]

You're right. My bad. Sorry.

Its OK. Made me start to wonder if Packers were just "settling" for Vic Fangio because he runs a 3-4 and has a nice car.

I think we might deserve more than that.

[George Cumby]

Schneider put together a good D right off the bat but has not been able to put together a competent OL to save his life and has struggled to re-stock their D.

It's almost as if the league is structured to penalize success and thereby maintain competitive balance. It's too bad the Packers can't make hay out of all those top ten draft picks they have.

[Pugger]

I still think it might be Brian Gutekunst when the dust settles. He's been with us for 19 years and is now Director of College Scouting.

[Smidgeon]

I was talking about this with my brother. The GM doesn't necessarily have to be the best scout. They have to be the best leaders/consensus builders/decision makers. I don't know who that is, but if the wunderkind can lead with maturity and insight, then I think you go with him. If you have reservations about his ability (beyond scouting), then you go with someone else.

Either way, this is a super-interesting offseason:
* new GM
* new defensive staff (mostly)
* stories of non-accountability on the defensive side

The GM is the biggest change, but the defensive staff will have the biggest immediate impact. So much going on right now.

[woodbuck27]

If things are going down hill in Seattle do we really want him right now?

We had no one for likely the last 3-5 Seasons.

Didn't you notice that?

Paying attention is challenging.

[Zool]

Paying attention is challenging.

It's also challenging not being a condescending prick. But we're all working on it for 2018.

[woodbuck27]

Now that MM has been extended for another Season it seems like the direction is Mark Murphy promoting from within for the NEW GM hahahaha.

Frankly it looks like the Same Ole Same Ole and that's IMO really bad news.

Simply a lot more frustration. Darn it all to Blazes.

I know my reaction isn't wrong.

[woodbuck27]

It's also challenging not being a condescending prick. But we're all working on it for 2018.

Work on this.

The Green Bay Packers are in a hot mess.

That fact is way too obvious now as it's creeping out.

What is it ZOOL.

Can't you deal with the TRUTH? :huh:

[woodbuck27]

It's also challenging not being a condescending prick. But we're all working on it for 2018.

Sure Zool.

[pbmax]

I was talking about this with my brother. The GM doesn't necessarily have to be the best scout. They have to be the best leaders/consensus builders/decision makers. I don't know who that is, but if the wunderkind can lead with maturity and insight, then I think you go with him. If you have reservations about his ability (beyond scouting), then you go with someone else.
.

I agree with this.

If your guy running the draft is a super scout then you constantly live with his biases. For all the conspiracy of mediocrity wist spins, I do believe Wolf and Thompson both had blinders at certain positions. Sherman always thought he could select the right player like the draft was a multiple choice exam.

A guy sifting through other scouts opinions might be more likely to sift through them with a fairer eye.

[beveaux1]

I agree with this.

If your guy running the draft is a super scout then you constantly live with his biases. For all the conspiracy of mediocrity wist spins, I do believe Wolf and Thompson both had blinders at certain positions. Sherman always thought he could select the right player like the draft was a multiple choice exam.

A guy sifting through other scouts opinions might be more likely to sift through them with a fairer eye.

This does make sense.

[Pugger]

There are rumors that McKenzie's role with the Raiders will be reduced after Gruden comes in so perhaps he'll be free to talk to Murphy?

[texaspackerbacker]

At this point, policy is the most important thing: Are we gonna continue to refuse to even compete for top free agents? Or will there be an effort to turn around the deterioration Ted let happen to the roster?

It's not automatic that the people who worked for Ted will follow his ways, but I'd much prefer somebody whose record says for sure that he will build the roster BOTH through the draft and through quality free agents - and I don't mean overage or leftovers nobody else wants like the few Ted went for.

[woodbuck27]

Ianrapoport
✔
@RapSheet
" As the GM interviews commence in Green Bay, one candidate expected to draw interest: Former #Bills GM Doug Whaley. He also interviewed with the #Browns. Perhaps receiving some credit for his draft picks and moves helping the #Bills end their playoff drought. "

4:43 PM - Jan 3, 2018

[Joemailman]

Packers reportedly interested in talking to former Bills GM Doug Whaley. Whaley was fired by the Bills in May 2017, but acquired many of the players who this year led the Bills to heir first playoff berth in 18 years.

[pbmax]

At this point, policy is the most important thing: Are we gonna continue to refuse to even compete for top free agents? Or will there be an effort to turn around the deterioration Ted let happen to the roster?

It's not automatic that the people who worked for Ted will follow his ways, but I'd much prefer somebody whose record says for sure that he will build the roster BOTH through the draft and through quality free agents - and I don't mean overage or leftovers nobody else wants like the few Ted went for.

Indeed! Spend money on players not wanted by their original team at the dollar amount they are asking! How can that go wrong! Look how its worked for Seattle!

BTW, some more info about how terrible the O line Thompson drafted was, backup tackles included.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSpbhecVoAA1tN1.jpg:large

[pbmax]

Chris Roth @rothchris

Interesting: Consultant Jed Hughes, whom Mark Murphy has hired to help him in GM search, is executive with company Texans have hired for their GM search; and Hou has reported interested in #Packers Brian Gutekunst, also a candidate in GB

[Joemailman]

A lot of speculation right now that Russ Ball is the front-runner.

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/03/russ-ball-emerges-as-early-favorite-to-be-packers-next-gm/
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/silverstein/2018/01/03/silverstein-russ-ball-good-bet-next-packers-gm/1000141001/

[Bretsky]

A lot of speculation right now that Russ Ball is the front-runner.

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/03/russ-ball-emerges-as-early-favorite-to-be-packers-next-gm/
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/silverstein/2018/01/03/silverstein-russ-ball-good-bet-next-packers-gm/1000141001/


that was tough to read; but if my impression of Murphy is correct (aka....has no stones and worshipped the ground Ted walks on) this would not surprise me.

[Bretsky]

A lot of speculation right now that Russ Ball is the front-runner.

http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/03/russ-ball-emerges-as-early-favorite-to-be-packers-next-gm/
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/silverstein/2018/01/03/silverstein-russ-ball-good-bet-next-packers-gm/1000141001/


Puke

Would b very different from GB"s decisions of the past...to hire ass kissin admin/ Finance guy over personnel experts.

Puke

I'd rather keep Ted Thompson

[Joemailman]

Puke

Would b very different from GB"s decisions of the past...to hire ass kissin admin/ Finance guy over personnel experts.

Puke

I'd rather keep Ted Thompson

I'm pretty confident Murphy wouldn't hire as GM someone who is just an accountant. Ball has reportedly been working with Thompson more in recent years on personnel matters. He clearly would need a right-hand man with a background in scouting. It's a situation that could be made to work.

[woodbuck27]

It sure seems to be Russ Ball as the Leader and the eventual promotion from within as the next Packer GM.

There is a lot of Hush Hush always in Green Bay. The sudden announcement at the end of the Season that MM was actually and 'quietly extended' another Year in his Contract through 2018 to the 2019 Season is a surprize and Russ Ball would have had a hand in that decision.

Russ Ball worked close with Ted Thompson and evidently was learning about handling Personnel.

Accountants are notoriously conservative and close mouthed. That would fall perfectly in line with 'the Packer Way'

Russ Ball as GM would most likely protect Mike McCarthy for the full remaining Contract or to the completion of the 2019 Season. An outside hire would in all possibility change MM''s Job Security.

So if I'm correct how are Eliot Wolf and Brian Gutekunst going to react to this?

I looked at this another way.

Hire Eliot Wolf as GM and maybe lose Brian Gutekunst (they have already lost Alonzo Highsmith) but Russ Ball remains.

Hire Russ Ball and why would Eliot Wolf and Brian Gutekunst stay in GreenBay if an opportunity arose elsewhere?

This is tricky stuff. :whaa:

[call_me_ishmael]

I'm pretty confident Murphy wouldn't hire as GM someone who is just an accountant. Ball has reportedly been working with Thompson more in recent years on personnel matters. He clearly would need a right-hand man with a background in scouting. It's a situation that could be made to work.

Agreed 100%. It is strange to break precedent though when it's been very successful the last 25 years. I say precedent and not coincidence because I can think of numerous times when management has talked about how having a football guy to run the football org was critically important.

[Bretsky]

Agreed 100%. It is strange to break precedent though when it's been very successful the last 25 years. I say precedent and not coincidence because I can think of numerous times when management has talked about how having a football guy to run the football org was critically important.

If you look at past GM hires in Green Bay they have always stressed the importance of having a person in charge with a background in personnel

Russ Ball, beyond the popular Porderpuffng clichés of him working with TT on some personnel the past couple years (AND YOU CAN CHOOSE TO SPIN THAT HOW YOU WANT) does not have that expertise.

The more I read the more people think that whole thing is just a façade....MM and TT have been discussing this...TT has become best buddies with Russ Ball, and M Murphy's decision is most likely already made. This all seems be the consensus. LOGIC would dictate if we want a personnel guy who I more active in Free Agency Russ Ball is NOT that guy.

I listed to a long interview with Andrew Brandt today on ESPN. Russ Ball replaced Andrew Brandt.

Brandt was hired throuht the Ron Wolf Tree. He noted how much he thinks the world of Reggie McKenzie, John Dorsey and John Schneider and noted if GB hired them based on their experiences we could expect a more aggressive means in free agency.

He also told fun stories on how E Wolf loved/craved personnel evaluation. He was evaluating film in high school for free, and about 13 years ago ahead of one of the draft E Wolf was really excited and dragged Andrew Brandit into the film room on draft day and said "LOOK AT THIS GUY'S MOVES......WE ARE GOING TO DRAFT THIS GUY IN ROUND TWO and he's going to be an amazing Green Bay Packer for many years. He craves personell with a passion.

That guy was Greg Jennings.

Andrew Brandt went on to note GB has a strong personnel staff, even after losing the three guys who were there with him and Ron Wolf (and Ted Thompson). And both will be sought after for other jobs.

There are plenty of Andrew Brandts and Russ Ball's out there and they are very replaceable. I really don't care much if Russ Ball leaves; but I don't want to lose talented NFL Evaluators.

The GB Packer GM job should be an elite job. We better dam well hire an elite personnel guy, whether it be within GB or from the outsde.

But many in the NFL circles seem to think TT has made the choice, and his buddy Russ Ball is our next GM and Mark Marphy will just follow Ted's choice.

I hope they are wrong; but the handwriting seems to be going up on the wall.

[Bretsky]

I'm pretty confident Murphy wouldn't hire as GM someone who is just an accountant. Ball has reportedly been working with Thompson more in recent years on personnel matters. He clearly would need a right-hand man with a background in scouting. It's a situation that could be made to work.


Are you buying into the circle talk of working with Ted Thompson ? It's a very nice and convenient spin things to go along with Mark (who may soon deserve the nickname of "THE PUPPET) Murphy going out of his way to note a few times they will look at guys without the Personnel Background .

Nine Months Ago Mike McCarthy was saying this is the best depth hes seen in GB at Outside Linebacker as well.

I agree with your premise anything can work. We have Aaron Rodgers and need to surround him with a hell of a lot more talent. Hire the Best Personnell Guy; at least you'll have one leading the charge then.

Hire Russ Ball, and if the next two look for other opportunities it could easily blow up.....if not this year, in the next couple.

BRING BACK BOB HARLAN; HE"D HIRE A PERSONNELL GUY FOR SURE.

DEAR BOB, WHEREARE YOU ??

[Bretsky]

AND ONE MORETHING.....AROD HAS WHAT....3...5....7 Elite Years Left

HIRE A GM WITH SOME URGENCY TO WIN THE BIG SHOW SOON

I don't think that's the cap guy

[mraynrand]

He also told fun stories on how E Wolf loved/craved personnel evaluation. He was evaluating film in high school for free, and about 13 years ago ahead of one of the draft E Wolf was really excited and dragged Andrew Brandit into the film room on draft day and said "LOOK AT THIS GUY'S MOVES......WE ARE GOING TO DRAFT THIS GUY IN ROUND TWO and he's going to be an amazing Green Bay Packer for many years. He craves personell with a passion.

That guy was Greg Jennings.

Did Eliot Wolf evaluate Jenning's sister?

[Bretsky]

Did Eliot Wolf evaluate Jenning's sister?

apparently not...lol

is she hot ?

[pbmax]

that was tough to read; but if my impression of Murphy is correct (aka....has no stones and worshipped the ground Ted walks on) this would not surprise me.

Why is that your impression? He just put out everyone's first or second worst bogeyman to pasture. Why does that make him Ted's puppet?

And second, if Ted was not enemy #1, wouldn't being Ted's puppet (manipulated by the personnel side of the Force) be better than being Murphy's puppet (nameless, faceless, bean counter management side of the Force)?

[woodbuck27]

AND ONE MORETHING.....AROD HAS WHAT....3...5....7 Elite Years Left

HIRE A GM WITH SOME URGENCY TO WIN THE BIG SHOW SOON

I don't think that's the cap guy

If Mark Murphy gets this one wrong; it's not going to be good.

The Green Bay Packers are a Pro Football Franchise of distinction not a fricken' Bank.

Murphy needs to hire the very best Personnel Man available and forget the darn Comfort Club approach. Aaron Rodgers needs to be provided with much more talent and that will take an aggressive and very football smart GM.

Let the Bean Counter remain as the Bean Counter.

Russ Ball isn't the way to go.

[mraynrand]

If Mark Murphy gets this one wrong; it's not going to be good.

you sold out to the TRUTH

[pbmax]

A few notes on Russ Ball and the evaluation side of the personnel department.

1. Russ Ball got his start on the coaching staff of Marty Schotttenheimer. He moved to Strength and Conditioning with Redman while there. His background isn't that of a CPA, he has a masters from Missouri in Physiology. He spent two years working as Schottenjeimers assistant, 8 with the trainers, and then moved to the front office.

He played college football as an offensive lineman, which means he might know more football than any Packers scout save the former NFL guys like Highsmith.

2. McCarthy has recommended him for two jobs and Thompson hired him for one of them.

3. You cannot be honest and claim Ted's drafting has been terrible, and claim Ted has been debilitated with illness AND still believe having a super scout as GM is the answer to all that ails the Packers. Dorsey, Schneider and McKenzie all have had worse drafts than Ted in the last 6 years. All have spent money foolishly on FAs. Either personnel people are prone to occasional mistakes and down years (or all are somehow on the verge of mental collapse), or Ted's errors are not egregious enough to want him fired for cause.

You want proof? Look at Wolf's drafts from the Super Bowl era through to 2001.

4. Thompson and Murphy both have given Ball more jobs and better titles/pay. Both the Super Scout AND the administrator like him.

5. Russ Ball was reportedly a force behind getting Adams and Linsley signed this year AND signing the FAs from last year.

6. The best trait a GM needs is clear minded decision making. Being a scout is no guarantee of that. Clear minded decision making with great personnel people informing you is not a bad setup for the future.

7. The GM doesn't have to make the call alone on draft day.

8. He has worked for KC, Minnesota, Washington and the Saints. None of the personnel people inside 1265 know anything other than the Packers. If I had to lay a bet on who continues Ted's exact method, it would be the guys who have never seen anything else.


You want the down side?

1. Harlan did indeed decide he wanted personnel background on top to help stop the Packers annual failure of drafting even with high picks. I put great stock in this because Harlan found the way out of the wilderness. There are two successful non-personnel people in charge of teams as GM, Mickey Loomis (Saints) and Howie Roseman (Eagles). There have been several failures. Its not that much of a track record.

2. Russ Ball has been the executive in charge of strength and training for a while now. While the issue has been mitigated since the utter catastrophes of the 2010-2013 era, its still been a very mixed bag of results. So he has overseen improvement (the crisis after the Super Bowl year was the catalyst for the change), but they aren't at the top of the health charts yet.

3. Who will be the cap guy after Ball? Ball is one of the best and the GM cannot do both jobs.

[pbmax]

There are plenty of Andrew Brandts and Russ Ball's out there and they are very replaceable. I really don't care much if Russ Ball leaves; but I don't want to lose talented NFL Evaluators.

Name the best cap guys in the League beside Ball and Brandt:


Name the guys who might be as good as Ted at personnel evaluation:


Here are my answers.

CAP: no idea

Scout: Schneider, McKenzie, Dorsey, Wolf the Younger, Gutekunst, Highsmith, McCloughan. And that is just the Packers. How about outside the org? Ozzie was a pro football personnel guy like Reggie for a while, Belicheat, Jim Finks, whoever survived the triangle of authority in Minnesota (Brezhnev?)

Looked at through the limited knowledge of the fan, there are unending lists of good talent evaluators. But some of them were terrible choices for GM. Because the job is completely different, requiring a discerning mind, not a mind just for film evaluation.

[BZnDallas]

At this point I think I want Eliot Wolf as the GM and give what ever hats are left over to Russ Ball. Im not buying the argument that TT disciples won't use FA. There are plenty of examples out there of TT guys getting GM jobs and using draft and FA. Schneider, McKenzie, and Dorsey all brought/bring in FAs.

[pbmax]

At this point I think I want Eliot Wolf as the GM and give what ever hats are left over to Russ Ball. Im not buying the argument that TT disciples won't use FA. There are plenty of examples out there of TT guys getting GM jobs and using draft and FA. Schneider, McKenzie, and Dorsey all brought/bring in FAs.

But if that is true, how does the argument that Ball won't use FA hold together?

[Joemailman]

Are you buying into the circle talk of working with Ted Thompson ? It's a very nice and convenient spin things to go along with Mark (who may soon deserve the nickname of "THE PUPPET) Murphy going out of his way to note a few times they will look at guys without the Personnel Background .



It's ironic that you think of Murphy as a puppet since you want to limit him to doing things as his predecessor did. Murphy played for Joe Gibbs in Washington, playing in 2 Super Bowls. He was the AD at Northwestern when they greatly improved their football program. He was the President here when the Packers won the Super Bowl. He knows what a winning football organization looks like. I don't find it concerning that he's not a Bob Harlan clone. He's certainly more qualified than John Jones, the guy Harlan hired as President before he had to turn to Murphy.

Let's be honest. Neither of us really know how much Ball has been involved in personnel decisions in recent years. Packers are pretty tight-lipped about that stuff.

By the way, I voted for Wolf (or Wolfe) in the poll. :-)

[woodbuck27]

But if that is true, how does the argument that Ball won't use FA hold together?

Wasn't $10 Million remaining on the books for the 2017 Season?

What part did Russ Ball have in that? Is the Green Bay Packers an organization that's suffering financially?

Does $10 Million CAP Space remaining translate to going for the Big Show?

I don't prefer 'a Bean Counter' as the Green Bay Packers GM." I don't prefer Russ Ball as the next GM of the Green Bay Packers.

[BZnDallas]

But if that is true, how does the argument that Ball won't use FA hold together?

I don't buy that either. Until a TT guy leaves and only draft and develops, I think THAT particular argument is bullsh.

[Joemailman]

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2017/05/29/wis-0530-packers-ball-part-1/349589001/


Ball, 57, is among the most intriguing figures in the Packers organization simply because the general public knows nothing about a man with immense influence. He is lauded as the team’s lead contract negotiator and salary-cap guru, but his responsibilities are said to extend much further. His talents are viewed as indispensable.

He has been described by Murphy as the “unsung hero of our Super Bowl” and by coach Mike McCarthy as “the best I’ve ever been around.” He is devoutly loyal to the organization and the epitome of a company man. He will not discuss business dealings with his family. He cuts off contact with his brother during the draft and free agency each year. (Randy Ball, a former collegiate head coach, is a pro scouting assistant for the Kansas City Chiefs.)

Around the league, Ball’s peers view him as a legitimate candidate for general manager jobs and wonder why he doesn’t have one already. In Green Bay, Ball is the dark horse to take over whenever the 64-year-old Thompson retires.

“He likes what he does now,” said Russ’ oldest brother, Rick Ball, “but he would love the opportunity to be a general manager.”

[BZnDallas]

Wasn't $10 Million remaining on the books for the 2017 Season?

What part did Russ Ball have in that? Is the Green Bay Packers an organization that's suffering financially?

Does $10 Million CAP Space remaining translate to going for the Big Show?

I don't want 'a Bean Counter' as the Green Bay Packers GM." I don't want Russ Ball as the next GM of the Green Bay Packers.

I thought TT and Ball used some of that $10 mil to extend Adams and Linsley? They used this last 2017 season to make it cheaper over the course of the extension.

[Joemailman]

I thought TT and Ball used some of that $10 mil to extend Adams and Linsley? They used this last 2017 season to make it cheaper over the course of the extension.

Packers are about 6 million under the cap, which ranks 18th. If they do nothing else by the end of the league year, they will be 22.6 million under the cap, which would rank 19th. http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/

[bobblehead]

At this point, policy is the most important thing: Are we gonna continue to refuse to even compete for top free agents? Or will there be an effort to turn around the deterioration Ted let happen to the roster?

It's not automatic that the people who worked for Ted will follow his ways, but I'd much prefer somebody whose record says for sure that he will build the roster BOTH through the draft and through quality free agents - and I don't mean overage or leftovers nobody else wants like the few Ted went for.

If someone is so motivated I would like a list of the top 5 FA's who signed huge money and how their team fared the next 2 years. I think it would be enlightening for many.

[bobblehead]

I do not TRUST CEO Mark Murphy after it's all coming out (** and THE TRUTH) to be a Man that can make the best decision.

Clearly (and **) CEO Mark Murphy isn't a Man of Vision or why did he have to be approached by a 45 Member Packer Board Executive Committee to remove TT as the Packer GM; when it was too obvious Ted Thompson wasn't fit healthwise to handle the Packer GM's job?

You are hilarious. Who do you trust? Who should be the next packers GM? Who should the board replace Murphy with....wait, the board is incompetent, we need a new board.

[woodbuck27]

http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/football/professional/tom-oates-in-search-for-new-gm-packers-should-stick/article_054d87de-261b-5dca-9cc8-b94d88181ddd.html

PACKERS

Tom Oates: In search for new GM, Packers should stick with what has worked

TOM OATES toates@madison.com 22 hrs ago

" Thompson’s draft-and-develop approach became a lightning rod for criticism, but mostly due to his reluctance to use means other than the draft to build his roster. It wasn’t the approach that was flawed, it was Thompson’s interpretation of it. "

" The draft-and-develop strategy has worked and can continue to work. However, that will only happen if Murphy hires someone willing to augment the roster with veterans via free agency and trades, unlike Thompson, whose reliance on undrafted — read: dirt cheap — free agents ..."

" ...The natural reaction is that hiring a Thompson protege will mean more of the same in Green Bay, but that’s highly unlikely. Most of Thompson’s underlings never shared his overly cautious nature and were frustrated by his lack of action when deals that would have improved the team presented themselves. ..."

" Eliot Wolf and Gutekunst were known to favor more aggressive tactics over the years but were often vetoed by Thompson. There is no real track record on Ball, who has largely handled Thompson’s administrative work and managed the salary cap."

[bobblehead]

Indeed! Spend money on players not wanted by their original team at the dollar amount they are asking! How can that go wrong! Look how its worked for Seattle!

BTW, some more info about how terrible the O line Thompson drafted was, backup tackles included.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DSpbhecVoAA1tN1.jpg:large

Its almost as if the OL is more responsible for a good run game than the RB. But nah...that can't be.

[bobblehead]

I'm pretty confident Murphy wouldn't hire as GM someone who is just an accountant. Ball has reportedly been working with Thompson more in recent years on personnel matters. He clearly would need a right-hand man with a background in scouting. It's a situation that could be made to work.

Someone like Ted Thompson?

[bobblehead]

I also want a list of the marquee FA acquisitions made by Bellicheat, Dorsey, Schneider, and McKenzie (not counting Marshall Newhouse).

[woodbuck27]

You are hilarious. Who do you trust? Who should be the next packers GM? Who should the board replace Murphy with....wait, the board is incompetent, we need a new board.

Are you keeping up or as usual simply shooting off?

Why did Mark Murphy remove TT as GM?

Why did it come to that?

Was Mark Murphy paying attention to Packers Football related Issues or otherwise involved in other Projects?

[woodbuck27]

Someone like Ted Thompson?

You would want it to go on as it has and more continued failure with a heavy TT influence.

Take some time to get your facts straight before popping off.

Argue with ** the FACTS ** forget your BURN on me.

Argue with the second post in this thread:

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?30227-The-Fun-of-being-an-Informed-Packer-Fan-Corner-At-least-you-can-LAUGH-!

[call_me_ishmael]

I also want a list of the marquee FA acquisitions made by Bellicheat, Dorsey, Schneider, and McKenzie (not counting Marshall Newhouse).

I would argue that this is less important than making your depth better and constantly cycling the bottom 40% of the roster as needed to get the best possible players.

BB is the best trader in the NFL though.

Schneider traded for Lynch, brought in Avril and Bennett.

I can't think of Dorsey's trades/signings but he has drafted a lot of speed.

[woodbuck27]

I also want a list of the marquee FA acquisitions made by Bellicheat, Dorsey, Schneider, and McKenzie (not counting Marshall Newhouse).

Are you actually defending Ted Thompson's style of trying to be a decent Packer GM?

I hope not as that would be a fail and all the same moot as he's finally history.

[Joemailman]

If someone is so motivated I would like a list of the top 5 FA's who signed huge money and how their team fared the next 2 years. I think it would be enlightening for many.

Top 8 (those averaging over 10 million per year) free agent signings from 2016:

Josh Norman - Washington - 5 years, 75 million - Washington went 8-7-1 and 7-9

Malik Jackson-Jacksonville - 6 years, 90 million - Jacksonville went 3-13 and 10-6

Olivier Vernon - New York Giants - 5 years, 85 million - Giants went 11-5 and 3-13

Keleche Osemele - Oakland - 5 years, 60 million - Oakland went 12-4 and 6-10

Janoris Jenkins - New York Giants - 5 years, 62 million - Giants went 11-5 and 3-13

Brock Osweiler - Houston - 4 years, 72 million - Houston went 9-7 and 4-12

Sean Smith - Oakland - 4 years, 40 million - Oakland went 12-4 and 6-10

Russell Okung - Denver - 5 years, 53 million - Denver went 9-7 and 5-11

With the exception of Jacksonville, the pattern is initial success that could not be sustained

[Pugger]

We had no one for likely the last 3-5 Seasons.

Didn't you notice that?

Paying attention is challenging.

Why must you be so damn condescending?

[woodbuck27]

Why must you be so damn condescending?

Seriously to keep on top of things takes a real commitment.

That's 'in fact' challenging. At least, I find that's the case. :idea:

[Joemailman]

Boy Wonder (Eliot Wolf) and Gutekunst being interviewed today.

[George Cumby]

Seriously to keep on top of things takes a real commitment.

To a nuthouse?

[woodbuck27]

To a nuthouse?

That's not impressive. :whaa:

I care about the Green Bay Packers and winning Big!

TRUTH is a long ways separated from Myth. TRUTH is backed up with 'clear facts' to support it.

I dig for 'the Facts' and TRUTH and ignore myth's.

Believing Myth's takes little effort.

[George Cumby]

I rest my case.

[gbgary]

geesh...from what i'm seeing on the www it seems Ball has the inside track. can't say i'm thrilled about that. he's a numbers guy. one person called him the closest thing to TT out there. ugh! we need an aggressive, win-now, guy. a guy who knows talent. not a numbers guy. smh

[texaspackerbacker]

Top 8 (those averaging over 10 million per year) free agent signings from 2016:

Josh Norman - Washington - 5 years, 75 million - Washington went 8-7-1 and 7-9

Malik Jackson-Jacksonville - 6 years, 90 million - Jacksonville went 3-13 and 10-6

Olivier Vernon - New York Giants - 5 years, 85 million - Giants went 11-5 and 3-13

Keleche Osemele - Oakland - 5 years, 60 million - Oakland went 12-4 and 6-10

Janoris Jenkins - New York Giants - 5 years, 62 million - Giants went 11-5 and 3-13

Brock Osweiler - Houston - 4 years, 72 million - Houston went 9-7 and 4-12

Sean Smith - Oakland - 4 years, 40 million - Oakland went 12-4 and 6-10

Russell Okung - Denver - 5 years, 53 million - Denver went 9-7 and 5-11

With the exception of Jacksonville, the pattern is initial success that could not be sustained

It's safe to say there were a few other factors in those differences.

[texaspackerbacker]

geesh...from what i'm seeing on the www it seems Ball has the inside track. can't say i'm thrilled about that. he's a numbers guy. one person called him the closest thing to TT out there. ugh! we need an aggressive, win-now, guy. a guy who knows talent. not a numbers guy. smh

Absodamnlutely!!!!

Nothing wrong with knowing the numbers, though - as long as you manipulate them to advantage. A lot of great CEOs started out as accountants.

[Bossman641]

Throwing out some random thoughts

Sure sounds like Ball is the guy, at least if the reports are correct. This will be interesting as he is pretty much a complete unknown. He's certainly worked his way up and everyone who has worked with him has come away impressed. We know literally nothing of his personnel experience though. If promoting him means losing Gutekunst and Wolf I'm not sure it's worth it. Would we be going into FA/the draft without our top 3 evaluators?

Last thought - if Eliot Wolf's name was Eliot Smith I have to imagine people wouldn't feel nearly as strongly about him as they do.

[Bossman641]

One other thing....is Murphy the guy who hired Ari Fleischer? It's good to get outside opinions but between that and now his use of a search firm for the GM, it almost seems like he's unwilling to put himself on the line.

[call_me_ishmael]

@Bossman, eh, I agree a little bit on the name. I think people would be less firmly "wolf", rather more divided between "smith" and "gutekunst".

I think people want a personnel man because the Packers have long talked about how important it was to have a football personnel guy run the football org. Ball would be a departure from that, which as mentioned they have spoken often about how important it was.

Gutekunst and Wolf/Smith both have ties to Harlan regime, which has successfully done this transition before, where as Murphy and his ability to choose someone are unproven.

[pbmax]

Agree about Wolf the Younger. Way too much undeserved hype.

But also remember this: if Russ Ball doesn’t get the job, no one here will question their assumptions. The media will not question thoroughness of sources. Everyone will wonder how Ball blew it during interview. :D

[Joemailman]

Throwing out some random thoughts

Sure sounds like Ball is the guy, at least if the reports are correct. This will be interesting as he is pretty much a complete unknown. He's certainly worked his way up and everyone who has worked with him has come away impressed. We know literally nothing of his personnel experience though. If promoting him means losing Gutekunst and Wolf I'm not sure it's worth it. Would we be going into FA/the draft without our top 3 evaluators?

Last thought - if Eliot Wolf's name was Eliot Smith I have to imagine people wouldn't feel nearly as strongly about him if they do.

I was thinking he same thing. Only I was thinking Eliot Sherman or Eliot Devine.

[pbmax]

JSComments
If Ball is hired I will not be a Green Bay fan! This is Ted Thompson’s younger clone...PLEASE NO!! Fire Murphy and bring in Ron Wolf to replace him.

How did this become the theme? Why aren’t Wolf or Gutekunst Ted clones? Ball has seen it done other ways.

[Joemailman]

One other thing....is Murphy the guy who hired Ari Fleischer? It's good to get outside opinions but between that and now his use of a search firm for the GM, it almost seems like he's unwilling to put himself on the line.

That was McCarthy's decision I believe. http://host.madison.com/sports/packers-take-spin-with-fleischer-ex-white-house-press-secretary/article_31a073ee-bb7a-5545-a656-2873c2b5bcf4.html

[woodbuck27]

I do not TRUST CEO Mark Murphy after it's all coming out (** and THE TRUTH) to be a Man that can make the best decision.

Clearly (and **) CEO Mark Murphy isn't a Man of Vision or why did he have to be approached by a 45 Member Packer Board Executive Committee to remove TT as the Packer GM; when it was too obvious Ted Thompson wasn't fit healthwise to handle the Packer GM's job?After reading this article I retract the above statement> CEO Mark Murphy absolutely has denied that any Packer Board Executive Committee approached him and in any manner influenced him to remove Ted Thompson as the Packers GM:

http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/football/professional/packers-gm-search-gives-mark-murphy-chance-to-show-his/article_7e5cfaf0-8cc3-5690-aa71-a0f1b0dd8955.html

" Murphy disputed reports that the publicly-owned Packers’ board of directors pressured him to remove Thompson as GM, saying there was “absolutely no truth to the story that I was directed by the board to make a change. … It was my decision to move the way we have and working with Ted.” ..."

[call_me_ishmael]

Here's a crazy idea:

Mark Murphy is not that much younger than TT, turning 63 in 7 months. My theory is that Russ Ball will be promoted to EVP something something, and one half of Wolfekunst will be promoted to EVP football operations. Basically, Ball is being set-up to be the successor to Murphy, not TT. In the meantime, he continues to work with the EVP/GM while Wolfekust has an opportunity to learn more of the business side in the coming years.

Crazy? Yeah, a little bit, but the Packers like continuity, and we don't talk about how old Murphy is.

The only part of this theory that doesn't make sense is that Ball is 57, so he'd be nearly 60 by the time Murphy is 65. That would give him 5 years before retirement at 65. Not a huge amount of time for an org that loves continuity.

[pbmax]

It is a Wisconsin sports tradition to name your successor for some reason.

[gbgary]

considering TT's iron fist, i wonder what players Gutekunst, or Wolfe, recommended they draft that TT poo-pooed and drafted someone else? guess we'll never know until someone writes a tell-all. lol

[pbmax]

considering TT's iron fist, i wonder what players Gutekunst, or Wolfe, recommended they draft that TT poo-pooed and drafted someone else? guess we'll never know until someone writes a tell-all. lol

Where is the story of the iron fist coming from?

Other than not talking to the public, what did Thompson do to get that description?

[pbmax]

Casey Hayward should be the next GM because his memory functions:

Casey Hayward @show_case29
Everybody keeps talking about it was a mistake for Green Bay to let me go. Nobody was saying that when they let me go. Never will have a bad thing to say about GB so many memories. They gave me a chance to be where I am today. Thanks Ted, McCarthy and Joe!

[Bretsky]

Why is that your impression? He just put out everyone's first or second worst bogeyman to pasture. Why does that make him Ted's puppet?

And second, if Ted was not enemy #1, wouldn't being Ted's puppet (manipulated by the personnel side of the Force) be better than being Murphy's puppet (nameless, faceless, bean counter management side of the Force)?

all over the radio

TT and MM had a talk at end of last year and TT noted his true passion was with scouting.

Many felt like the plan was in place and Murphy had no interest in John Dorsey or he'd have given a heads up.

Many around GB feel the choice was made before the interviews and it's Russ ball and it's based off of TT's preference

[Bretsky]

At this point I think I want Eliot Wolf as the GM and give what ever hats are left over to Russ Ball. Im not buying the argument that TT disciples won't use FA. There are plenty of examples out there of TT guys getting GM jobs and using draft and FA. Schneider, McKenzie, and Dorsey all brought/bring in FAs.

TT only has One Disciple and that is Russ Ball, the finance guy

The rest originally come from the Ron Wolf Tree

[Bretsky]

I also want a list of the marquee FA acquisitions made by Bellicheat, Dorsey, Schneider, and McKenzie (not counting Marshall Newhouse).


Whoever asks for all the work should be the person to complete it :)

[Bretsky]

geesh...from what i'm seeing on the www it seems Ball has the inside track. can't say i'm thrilled about that. he's a numbers guy. one person called him the closest thing to TT out there. ugh! we need an aggressive, win-now, guy. a guy who knows talent. not a numbers guy. smh

Pretty much everything Dougherty just said on the radio. He has no strong bias other than feeling Ball is a mistake that carries a ton of risk and he doesn't see the reward since he feels Ball stats either way

[Bretsky]

JSComments
If Ball is hired I will not be a Green Bay fan! This is Ted Thompson’s younger clone...PLEASE NO!! Fire Murphy and bring in Ron Wolf to replace him.

How did this become the theme? Why aren’t Wolf or Gutekunst Ted clones? Ball has seen it done other ways.


JS guys were saying both as Wolf clones too......and even note both encouraraged TT to be more aggressive with trades/free agency to little avail

[Bretsky]

After reading this article I retract the above statement> CEO Mark Murphy absolutely has denied that any Packer Board Executive Committee approached him and in any manner influenced him to remove Ted Thompson as the Packers GM:

http://host.madison.com/wsj/sports/football/professional/packers-gm-search-gives-mark-murphy-chance-to-show-his/article_7e5cfaf0-8cc3-5690-aa71-a0f1b0dd8955.html

" Murphy disputed reports that the publicly-owned Packers’ board of directors pressured him to remove Thompson as GM, saying there was “absolutely no truth to the story that I was directed by the board to make a change. … It was my decision to move the way we have and working with Ted.” ..."


This Is my belief; and MM and TT mutually chatted on this before moving this way

[pbmax]

JS guys were saying both as Wolf clones too......and even note both encouraraged TT to be more aggressive with trades/free agency to little avail

Ok. So why is Ball against FA as well?

[pbmax]

This Is my belief; and MM and TT mutually chatted on this before moving this way

Aaron Nagler reported that he heard from one board member that the question of Thompson's health was raised and urged Murphy to move on if it interfered with the job. Murphy assured them it didn't. No orders given. But who knows what they talked about between the two of them.

[Bretsky]

Where is the story of the iron fist coming from?

Other than not talking to the public, what did Thompson do to get that description?


These Packer beat writers must chat with many; they have noted both candidates often came to TT with aggressive ideas they favored that were boycotted. If you believe what they say via radio both candidates will feel a greater sense of urgency

[Bretsky]

Ok. So why is Ball against FA as well?

Because he's the closest thing to TT not names TT :)

Not to mention he's a cap guy....lol

I need a nickmame for him ? Wanna help ?

Puppet Rusty ? Little TT ? Teddypup ?

I think Wolf will be Little Wolfey :))

[denverYooper]

Throwing out some random thoughts

Sure sounds like Ball is the guy, at least if the reports are correct. This will be interesting as he is pretty much a complete unknown. He's certainly worked his way up and everyone who has worked with him has come away impressed. We know literally nothing of his personnel experience though. If promoting him means losing Gutekunst and Wolf I'm not sure it's worth it. Would we be going into FA/the draft without our top 3 evaluators?

Last thought - if Eliot Wolf's name was Eliot Smith I have to imagine people wouldn't feel nearly as strongly about him as they do.

I love Eliott Smith. Saved my soul.

Now I have to go listen to Either/Or.

[wist43]

I absolutely don't want a "cap guy" as GM - has to be a "football guy", who then gets sound cap advice from a bean counter like Ball.

My guess is it will be Ball, and Green Bay will never see a FA again.

[mraynrand]

I love Eliott Smith. Saved my soul.

Now I have to go listen to Either/Or.

I prefer the Snow Miser.

[alquaal]

Because he's the closest thing to TT not names TT :)

Not to mention he's a cap guy....lol

I need a nickmame for him ? Wanna help ?

Puppet Rusty ? Little TT ? Teddypup ?

I think Wolf will be Little Wolfey :))
Teds Toadie

[woodbuck27]

I absolutely don't want a "cap guy" as GM - has to be a "football guy", who then gets sound cap advice from a bean counter like Ball.

My guess is it will be Ball, and Green Bay will never see a FA again.

Yes...I'll be surprised if they don't do all they can to screw it to blazes.

In Green Bay isn't it a high priority to maintain 'the Comfort Zone Club'? :idea:

Otherwise referred to as 'The Hush Hush Club'. :roll:

[pbmax]

These Packer beat writers must chat with many; they have noted both candidates often came to TT with aggressive ideas they favored that were boycotted. If you believe what they say via radio both candidates will feel a greater sense of urgency

Urgency about free agents is not urgency about winning. It’s an option with risks all its own.

And it doesn’t explain the iron fist nonsense. Ted was in charge and if he wanted to do something he did. Or did not.

[pbmax]

all over the radio

TT and MM had a talk at end of last year and TT noted his true passion was with scouting.

Many felt like the plan was in place and Murphy had no interest in John Dorsey or he'd have given a heads up.

Many around GB feel the choice was made before the interviews and it's Russ ball and it's based off of TT's preference

So unadulterated speculation?

Ted has talked about his first love being scouting since he was hired. He mentioned it publicly many times.

[pbmax]

TT only has One Disciple and that is Russ Ball, the finance guy

The rest originally come from the Ron Wolf Tree

Why isn’t Ball a true disciple of Schottenheimer, Redman or Loomis?

They all hired him before Ted.

Ball is no more disciple than the others to Ted. If he gets the job, I bet it’s more due to Murphy trusting him than Teds choice of successor. Murphy has been handing Ball more responsibility for years.

[woodbuck27]

Urgency about free agents is not urgency about winning. It’s an option with risks all its own.

And it doesn’t explain the iron fist nonsense. Ted was in charge and if he wanted to do something he did. Or did not.

I am looking for that Reference to TT 'running the show with an Iron Fist'.

I read it somewhere yesterday. I'm reading a lot of stuff.

There's a lot at stake here and they better get it right.

[pbmax]

Because he's the closest thing to TT not names TT :)

Not to mention he's a cap guy....lol

I need a nickmame for him ? Wanna help ?

Puppet Rusty ? Little TT ? Teddypup ?

I think Wolf will be Little Wolfey :))

Do you have any idea what his philosophy is? It’s also been reported that Ball pushed the FA push last year.

[woodbuck27]

So unadulterated speculation?

Ted has talked about his first love being scouting since he was hired. He mentioned it publicly many times.

Yup ....TT sure had high hopes and finding diamonds in the rough.

If his love was Movies. He would be attending a lot of 'B Grade' Movies.

[pbmax]

I absolutely don't want a "cap guy" as GM - has to be a "football guy", who then gets sound cap advice from a bean counter like Ball.

My guess is it will be Ball, and Green Bay will never see a FA again.

Yeah. Tannenbaum, Roseman and Loomis have never signed FAs before.

Cap guys don’t know how to work around the cap.

[Bretsky]

Teds Toadie

THAT IS DAM GOOD

If MoneyMan gets the job definitely have to do a POLL for his nickname

[Bretsky]

Do you have any idea what his philosophy is? It’s also been reported that Ball pushed the FA push last year.

By who ?

[Bretsky]

Why isn’t Ball a true disciple of Schottenheimer, Redman or Loomis?

They all hired him before Ted.

Ball is no more disciple than the others to Ted. If he gets the job, I bet it’s more due to Murphy trusting him than Teds choice of successor. Murphy has been handing Ball more responsibility for years.


Cause he was what he I supposed to be at the other places......aka.......... a money guy

If you want to argue he's been involved in personnel the basis of that argument, for those who make it, is that he became close to TT and was let in the door
Then he's Ted disciple...or whatever you want to call it

If you want to argue he's purely a money guy and he's getting hired as a leader and cause MM and maybe TT love him, so be it....then he's nobody's disciple....I gusss....

SHIT, IF WE ARE GOING TO HIRE A GOOD FINANCIAL GUY..........WHERE TF IS PATLER ??????

[Bretsky]

And for the record I've said FOREVER that I felt Murphy worships the ground TT walks on...and he loves McCarthy too (and I'm fine with the latter)

Whether it was this year or next year, the plans were already discussed long ago for TT to step back and be replaced. Now if you are me, you believe MM just follows TT's recommendation......and Russ Ball already has the job. And you know me man....I give opinions...always have them...and many times, like this........
I AM HAPPY TO BE PROVEN WRONG

But as it sits now, I'm thinking the Ballie Puppet gets hired based on TT's recommendation

Now if little Wolfey gets hired instead........I WILL BE HAPPY TO BE PROVEN WRONG

[woodbuck27]

Right now it seems the HIRE for the GM's job has to be approved my Packers Head Coach Mike McCarthy.

If that's actually the case Packer Nation is in for a real shitstorm because Mike McCarthy frankly is full of Horseshit.

Damn let's burn the fricken house down Mark Murphy, and make Mike McCarthy the next GM of the Green Bay Packers. Then he can FIRE himself as the rotten Head Coach he is. :cry:

[woodbuck27]

https://www.totalpackers.com/2018/01/mike-mccarthy-might-dictate-new-gm/

MIKE MCCARTHY MIGHT DICTATE WHO NEW GM IS

01/04/2018

Comment woodbuck27:

If Mike McCarthy gets it his way:

The new GM will be someone MM is very familiar with.

The betting money is on Finance Guy Russ Ball and MM has known him since the early 90s.

Personel Men Brian Gutekunst and Eliot Wolf are getting interviews. Neither has as a long-standing relationship with Packer HC Mike McCarthy.

So in ' MM's Perfect World', Russ Ball will be the Packers’ next GM.

[esoxx]

THAT IS DAM GOOD

If MoneyMan gets the job definitely have to do a POLL for his nickname

I like "Cappie Russ" best.

[pbmax]

Cause he was what he I supposed to be at the other places......aka.......... a money guy

If you want to argue he's been involved in personnel the basis of that argument, for those who make it, is that he became close to TT and was let in the door
Then he's Ted disciple...or whatever you want to call it

If you want to argue he's purely a money guy and he's getting hired as a leader and cause MM and maybe TT love him, so be it....then he's nobody's disciple....I gusss....

SHIT, IF WE ARE GOING TO HIRE A GOOD FINANCIAL GUY..........WHERE TF IS PATLER ??????

I am arguing that multiple people, qualified to judge someone doing an NFL job, have judged the guy very effective at doing multiple jobs across disciplines. From strength and conditioning to coaches assistant to front office personnel to eventually yes, the cap guy, he keeps succeeding. Missouri found this, KC found this and New Orleans too.

Murphy then let him in to the business operation side of the business, Ted let him into scouting.

Could he be a lick spittle? Maybe. But Alex Gibbs didn't seem to think so when they were at KC together.

People keep bleating that Ted did not sign enough FAs or use other means of player acquisition. Who is more likely to break that mold, Ted's chosen personnel cronies or someone with a far superior and deep background fixing problems?

If you hire someone from college personnel, their focus will be the draft. Pro personnel might get you FA and maybe trade focus. Someone who has had a hand in all those avenues? Maybe he gets you an across the board approach, considering all manner of inputs. Decision making is ultimately more important as a GM than scouting ability.

Promoting your best personnel guy to GM is just acceptable Peter Principle advancement. There have to be other tests to determine competence.

[call_me_ishmael]

People keep bleating that Ted did not sign enough FAs or use other means of player acquisition. Who is more likely to break that mold, Ted's chosen personnel cronies or someone with a far superior and deep background fixing problems?

Unsubstantiated speculation :)

I think they'll find a way to keep one of the scouts and if it's Wolf, he is the GM in waiting. Eliot is just too young.

[BZnDallas]

Just curious, if Ball gets the gig and the first thing he does is sign a big name FA or two, what will you Ball haters say? I assume, not much. Then go on to the next bitch-fest topic.

Nobody knows jack shit what any of these men will do if given the GM title. But they've all witnessed the fan base turn on Ted, and have also witnessed the players taking up for Ted. My guess is all three of these underlings have watched and learned and I doubt any of them will be ALL draft and develop. Ted has proven D&D is great for an old team to get young and out of salary cap hell. He's also proven, you gotta do more to stay at the top.

[call_me_ishmael]

PB! Can you get the McGinn article today? Through Twitter searches I have gathered that it says something to the effect of MM will quit if Ball gets the job. Can you post it here?

[Deputy Nutz]

I would look under the hood at some front office talent of the Patriots

[Pugger]

I know a lot of folks believe Ball is gonna get the job I hope it is Gutekunst instead.

[call_me_ishmael]

Somebody get the McGinn article that they're talking about on the radio where MM allegedly told staff he'd quit if it's Ball.

[ThunderDan]

Just curious, if Ball gets the gig and the first thing he does is sign a big name FA or two, what will you Ball haters say? I assume, not much. Then go on to the next bitch-fest topic.

Nobody knows jack shit what any of these men will do if given the GM title. But they've all witnessed the fan base turn on Ted, and have also witnessed the players taking up for Ted. My guess is all three of these underlings have watched and learned and I doubt any of them will be ALL draft and develop. Ted has proven D&D is great for an old team to get young and out of salary cap hell. He's also proven, you gotta do more to stay at the top.

This post nails it 100%. Nobody has any idea what the new GM will do. No one was in the meetings to hear what has been said and who was pushing for what.

[mraynrand]

This post nails it 100%. Nobody has any idea what the new GM will do. No one was in the meetings to hear what has been said and who was pushing for what.

Get Wolff on the job! He'll release the tapes! :)

[call_me_ishmael]

Here's the McGinn article.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/7ocd61/does_anyone_subscribe_to_bob_mcginns_website/ds8dks1/

Also, PFT is reporting the Packers are trying to interview Eric DeCosta.

[gbgary]

Somebody get the McGinn article that they're talking about on the radio where MM allegedly told staff he'd quit if it's Ball.

yup. heard that. he doesn't want to be handed a sub-par roster again due to cheapness and talent evaluation. he all but said that in his presser. he wants a real partnership this time. he doesn't want to deal with all the bullets he has to take due to things he doesn't have some control over. ted handed him a bad hand and wouldn't stand up there and be accountable. Ball, who MM evidently isn't all that close to anymore, is a known commodity in the building and MM doesn't see them on the same page. he spoke about "a good fit" with the next gm.

[BZnDallas]

Decosta has me greatly intrigued

But for the same reason Wolf and Gute have me intrigued.

For some one this forum it seems that's good enough to 'X' em out. Thats bad business imo

[mraynrand]

Here's the McGinn article.

https://www.reddit.com/r/GreenBayPackers/comments/7ocd61/does_anyone_subscribe_to_bob_mcginns_website/ds8dks1/

Also, PFT is reporting the Packers are trying to interview Eric DeCosta.

Ozzie Tree:

Phil Savage is from the Ozzie tree - didn't fare well in Cleveland, but who did?

George Kokinis didn't fare any better and was removed by security after a 1-7 start in 2009. No one knew at the time, but 1-7 was an outstanding record for a new GM with the Browns.

[pbmax]

yup. heard that. he doesn't want to be handed a sub-par roster again due to cheapness and talent evaluation. he all but said that in his presser. he wants a real partnership this time. he doesn't want to deal with all the bullets he has to take due to things he doesn't have some control over. ted handed him a bad hand and wouldn't stand up there and be accountable. Ball, who MM evidently isn't all that close to anymore, is a known commodity in the building and MM doesn't see them on the same page. he spoke about "a good fit" with the next gm.

If true, fire his butt. Not your job bub.

[call_me_ishmael]

Ozzie Tree:

Phil Savage is from the Ozzie tree - didn't fare well in Cleveland, but who did?

George Kokinis didn't fare any better and was removed by security after a 1-7 start in 2009. No one knew at the time, but 1-7 was an outstanding record for a new GM with the Browns.

I have always wondered why Phil Savage never got another shot. Many used to think he was the brains behind the Ravens operation that always seemed to draft so well.

[pbmax]

In somewhat related news, the Vikings would not let the Packers interview George Paton.

They obviously don't follow the dictates of Wolf-ism, which as espoused on this board means let them go anywhere, even in the Division.

[call_me_ishmael]

So, what does everyone think of the McGinn article? Is he just selling subscriptions and a load of bunk, or do we think there's some accuracy to it?

There's also this:

https://twitter.com/ESPNMadison/status/949338185691254784


Wilde: I had also heard that @AaronRodgers12 doesn't like the idea, at all, of Russ Ball being the GM.

The reality is Aaron can pick the GM if he wants. Seriously. All he has to say is "this person is the GM or I'm not resigning" and it's a done deal IMO. You let LeBron or Jordan pick their staff because they're transcendent players in a player's league.

[mraynrand]

I have always wondered why Phil Savage never got another shot. Many used to think he was the brains behind the Ravens operation that always seemed to draft so well.

One of those guys - I think Kokinis - went back as an assistant to Ozzie. May still be there. Don't need both. Cleveland is a career-ender.

[pbmax]

McGinn tweeted that new structure will be Ball as GM and Gutekunst as EVP of player personnel.

In other news, Gruden is all but signed in Oakland. One of the changes is an EVP in charge of personnel over McKenzie plus another young personnel guy.

Reggie might be in play.

[call_me_ishmael]

PB, do you think the stuff about MM leaving to be true?

[pbmax]

PB, do you think the stuff about MM leaving to be true?

No idea. But I am intrigued as hell about whether people inside the building are just paranoid like posters about Ball or they know something like some inside people did about John Jones.

I just do not get the loyalty to Wolf the Younger and Gutekunst. Its flat weird. People recognize that Ron Wolf made as many, if not more, mistakes than Thompson, right?

You don't get to cherry pick character traits. You get them all.

[mraynrand]

McGinn tweeted that new structure will be Ball as GM and Gutekunst as EVP of player personnel.

In other news, Gruden is all but signed in Oakland. One of the changes is an EVP in charge of personnel over McKenzie plus another young personnel guy.

Reggie might be in play.

Reggie = Peter Principle. He was great as director of Pro-Personnel. GM: dismal.

[mraynrand]

I just do not get the loyalty to Wolf the Younger and Gutekunst. Its flat weird. People recognize that Ron Wolf made as many, if not more, mistakes than Thompson, right?

It's the same phenomenon as the backup QB being popular. The problems you don't know about yet are easily ignored in favor of the promise of Belichickesque perfection.

[mraynrand]

McGinn tweeted that new structure will be Ball as GM and Gutekunst as EVP of player personnel.

that's his guess? Or does he know something?

[pbmax]

So by process of elimination and not enough info, something about Ball raises a red flag to people. Could be cap guy deal. Could be that he is linked to Murphy too much (corporate rather than football guy). Could be that Florio was right a couple of years ago and M3 is tired of too few free agents and limited say on final roster.

This is why you let the new GM pick a coach.

[pbmax]

that's his guess? Or does he know something?


I would call it speculation based on a couple of sources. Partial had a reddit link to the actual article, I am going off the Tweet.

Bob McGinn @BobMcGinn
At http://bobmcginnfootball.com : Looks like it'll be GM Ball-Exec VP Gutekunst in Green Bay, leaving McCarthy to make decision whether he wants to continue coaching #Packers or not.

[gbgary]

just heard Reggie McKenzie turned down an interview request with the Packers.

[beveaux1]

So, what does everyone think of the McGinn article? Is he just selling subscriptions and a load of bunk, or do we think there's some accuracy to it?

According to the article, McCarthy is interviewing GM candidates with Murphy. I find it implausible, if his feelings are so strong that he would quit if Ball is hired, that he would not make these feelings known to Murphy.

Murphy then would have the choice to hire someone that his coach is vehemently opposed to, or hire someone else. We'll see next week. My feelings are that Murphy would not hire Ball in that case. If he hires Ball, the article is a shameless attempt to fire up the faithful.

[pbmax]

just heard Reggie McKenzie turned down an interview request with the Packers.

Wow.

[pbmax]

According to the article, McCarthy is interviewing GM candidates with Murphy. I find it implausible, if his feelings are so strong that he would quit if Ball is hired, that he would not make these feelings known to Murphy.

Murphy then would have the choice to hire someone that his coach is vehemently opposed to, or hire someone else. We'll see next week. My feelings are that Murphy would not hire Ball in that case. If he hires Ball, the article is a shameless attempt to fire up the faithful.

This is dumb. The coach shouldn't have that much power.

[call_me_ishmael]

"In fact, McCarthy told members of his staff Thursday that if Ball became GM he planned to leave Green Bay for another job, according to a source."

members.

That means more than one. That's damn interesting. He could be lying to sell subs, but then his credibility is shot. Maybe Bob plans to close up shop after the draft and he is trying to sell a bunch of subs before it all ends? Who knows.

[beveaux1]

This is dumb. The coach shouldn't have that much power.

I agree. If the coach is truly an employee of the GM, why would he be included in the interview panel? Maybe because Murphy has no intent to allow the GM to release McCarthy from his contract.

In any case, if that rumor were true, Ball would not be hired.

[call_me_ishmael]

My view is this:

If the rumors are true, then why risk it with Ball? Why roll the dice with unknowns when you can pay a small, one-time price, and get a known commodity in Schneider. Just pony up a third day pick and get the job done. Maybe his ceiling is known and it's just "very good" and not "excellent". So what? Get it done.

[beveaux1]

members.

That means more than one. That's damn interesting. He could be lying to sell subs, but then his credibility is shot. Maybe Bob plans to close up shop after the draft and he is trying to sell a bunch of subs before it all ends? Who knows.

No. It means one source. "according to a source".

[pbmax]

Reggie might just have decided to stay put and not avoid GB

Jim Trotter @JimTrotter_NFL
My understanding is that GM Reggie McKenzie’s role won’t be diminished with the arrival of Gruden. Proof: McKenzie declined a Green Bay request to interview for Packers GM job. #Raiders

[beveaux1]

Most would not print an inflammatory article with one source.

[OS PA]

So what you're all saying is if we hire Ball to be our new GM, McCarthy would leave? If that happens then we'll surely lure Bill Belichick away from his "unhappy home" with NE. Right...?

[beveaux1]

So what you're all saying is if we hire Ball to be our new GM, McCarthy would leave? If that happens then we'll surely lure Bill Belichick away from his "unhappy home" with NE. Right...?

Are you the source of that information?

[gbgary]

This is dumb. The coach shouldn't have that much power.

it's about the "fit."

[gbgary]

belichick, carroll, do you think those guys don't have personnel input? belichick has all the personnel power. i think MM wants, and should, have more power in that area.

[alquaal]

This seems like a tough position for any new gm. A head coach wanting more power and the former gm, a well known iron fisted control freak, still with the team "advising".

[pbmax]

belichick, carroll, do you think those guys don't have personnel input? belichick has all the personnel power. i think MM wants, and should, have more power in that area.

Nope. People against having a cap guy in charge should REALLY be upset about a HC with personnel authority.

It works out far, far less. For every Belichick, there is Jeff Fisher, Chip Kelly, Mike Sherman and Nick Saban.

[mraynrand]

just heard Reggie McKenzie turned down an interview request with the Packers.

I would turn it down too. Probably their token black for the Rooney Rule. I would hate that.

[BZnDallas]

This is dumb. The coach shouldn't have that much power.

If you're gonna let me cook dinner, why can't I choose the ingredients? Wasn't that a Parcelsism?

Not saying I agree 100%, but not saying I disagree 100% either...

But I do want them all on the same page, and not sure how to do that without input from all of them.

[BZnDallas]

I would turn it down too. Probably their token black for the Rooney Rule. I would hate that.

Is the Rooney Rule enforced on GM or just HC or coordinators too?

[gbgary]

Nope. People against having a cap guy in charge should REALLY be upset about a HC with personnel authority.

It works out far, far less. For every Belichick, there is Jeff Fisher, Chip Kelly, Mike Sherman and Nick Saban.

if MM is having to deal with a finance guy as a gm then he should have some power in personnel matters. MM knows what he needs, and who can help, more than anyone there. they're not there to win the cap championship. if that were the case the browns would be holding the trophy.

[gbgary]

Is the Rooney Rule enforced on GM or just HC or coordinators too?

GMs and HCs i think.

[BZnDallas]

GMs and HCs i think.

I thought so too at first. But I can't think of any GM or coordinator that needed to pass the rule.

[woodbuck27]

GMs and HCs i think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rooney_Rule

" The Rooney Rule is a National Football League policy that requires league teams to Interview minority candidates for head coaching and senior football operation jobs."

[Smidgeon]

In somewhat related news, the Vikings would not let the Packers interview George Paton.

They obviously don't follow the dictates of Wolf-ism, which as espoused on this board means let them go anywhere, even in the Division.

I thought if a GM had roster control, they couldn't be blocked from an interview. Apparently not true?

[pbmax]

I thought if a GM had roster control, they couldn't be blocked from an interview. Apparently not true?

A good question, the theory I saw was that with their season still going, they do not have to grant interviews except in the specially designated windows.

Its possible it was a courtesy the Packers extended to them; they may abide by it even when they could force it.

[call_me_ishmael]

I think the only positions that cannot be blocked are assistants to become head coaches. (I am probably wrong though)

[Smidgeon]

I think the only positions that cannot be blocked are assistants to become head coaches. (I am probably wrong though)

I was very sure (before this news) that if a GM position had full roster control, no one could be blocked from interviewing for it. That's why I'm confused. Is GB not offering full roster control (uh oh) or is it a timing thing like pb suggests?

[Zool]

If you're gonna let me cook dinner, why can't I choose the ingredients? Wasn't that a Parcelsism?

Not saying I agree 100%, but not saying I disagree 100% either...

But I do want them all on the same page, and not sure how to do that without input from all of them.

Mechanics would be terrible at designing cars.

[Joemailman]

I was very sure (before this news) that if a GM position had full roster control, no one could be blocked from interviewing for it. That's why I'm confused. Is GB not offering full roster control (uh oh) or is it a timing thing like pb suggests?

Minnesota can deny interview requests because they're still playing, according to http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/05/vikings-decline-packers-request-to-interview-assistant-gm/

[Smidgeon]

Minnesota can deny interview requests because they're still playing, according to http://packerswire.usatoday.com/2018/01/05/vikings-decline-packers-request-to-interview-assistant-gm/

So it's timing. Weird, I guess, but okay.

[Joemailman]

So it's timing. Weird, I guess, but okay.

It effectively blocks the Packers since they want to make a decision by next week.

[ZachMN]

This whole thing is really a cluster. If the situation requires keeping MM then the would turn off a lot of potential candidates outside of the organization in my opinion and potentially within as well. Couple that with a DC opening why would anyone want that position until the GM position is solidified? Unbelievable Murphy would say anything about M3 being the coach. Deal with one thing at a time. You know the idiot press will ask about the head coach so just say 'We will visit that after the gm is in place' instead of putting yourself in a corner. I don't like the timing of any of this unless it's all a charade for ultimately putting Wolfe or Gutekunst in place and they are on the same page with M3.

[Joemailman]

This whole thing is really a cluster. If the situation requires keeping MM then the would turn off a lot of potential candidates outside of the organization in my opinion and potentially within as well. Couple that with a DC opening why would anyone want that position until the GM position is solidified? Unbelievable Murphy would say anything about M3 being the coach. Deal with one thing at a time. You know the idiot press will ask about the head coach so just say 'We will visit that after the gm is in place' instead of putting yourself in a corner. I don't like the timing of any of this unless it's all a charade for ultimately putting Wolfe or Gutekunst in place and they are on the same page with M3.

Murphy had to solidify MM's status so MM can get on with hiring a DC. No candidates from the outside were going to want to come here to be DC without knowing who the HC is going to be.

[ZachMN]

Murphy had to solidify MM's status so MM can get on with hiring a DC. No candidates from the outside were going to want to come here to be DC without knowing who the HC is going to be.

Maybe...but My argument here is don't handcuff the GM with M3. At this point a DC is hardly my concern. Get the GM then let him decide if M3 is his guy then the DC position gets taken care of.

[pbmax]

Maybe...but My argument here is don't handcuff the GM with M3. At this point a DC is hardly my concern. Get the GM then let him decide if M3 is his guy then the DC position gets taken care of.

I agree with this. Why decide BEFORE getting the GM?

The answer probably isn't named Mike. Its probably named Aaron, who will be redoing a contract next year.

[woodbuck27]

Murphy had to solidify MM's status so MM can get on with hiring a DC. No candidates from the outside were going to want to come here to be DC without knowing who the HC is going to be.

No ...it was easy:

Mark Murphy had to see it all as anyone should have that loves the Green Bay Packers.

FIRE MM and Dom Capers and if he needed to be somehow Thanked reassign TT and simply and effectively hire that New GM and allow him to hire his HC and Coaching Staff.

It was a 'No Brainer' easy peasy way to get it all on track in 2018 or a fresh start. The timing after the debacle the last 7 years and especially after 2017 was PERFECT.

Now it's a complete mess.

[pbmax]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade of complaints and absolute assurance they have the answer, but has anyone noticed that all the former Packer GMs, you know, the one's who sign free agents and thought Ted's insistence on treading very carefully with other teams players was a little extreme, have worse records overall than he does?

And that two are stuck in the "good team has no more top 10 picks" loop that Thompson has been working on for 12 years? The third was fired for cap reasons?

Does it occur to any of you that this isn't that much that separates these guys?

Does it occur to you that assuming Ball won't sign FAs because Ted high fives him twice is kinda guesswork?

Does it occur to anyone that the key to success is a little luck and making the most of what you have on hand. Which means Ted's greatest failure wasn't a lack of a 2nd SB, it was not getting on same page with Dom or forcing M3 to fire him?

And that the new guy will have all the same challenges AND more?

And that the odds are that the Packers will now be worse off, because they have been so much better off than the rest of the League?

If it turns out that Murphy did all this to knock over the dominoes to Rodgers next contract, keep MM around, get new GM that M3 and AR like better, he will have single handedly made the worst decision since Forrest Gregg got a contract extension and more power?

[Bretsky]

Nope. People against having a cap guy in charge should REALLY be upset about a HC with personnel authority.

It works out far, far less. For every Belichick, there is Jeff Fisher, Chip Kelly, Mike Sherman and Nick Saban.


AGREE; although I'd consider most coaches very good judges of who to go after in free agency

[Bretsky]

I know a lot of folks believe Ball is gonna get the job I hope it is Gutekunst instead.

I'd be happy with him too

[woodbuck27]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade of complaints and absolute assurance they have the answer, but has anyone noticed that all the former Packer GMs, you know, the one's who sign free agents and thought Ted's insistence on treading very carefully with other teams players was a little extreme, have worse records overall than he does?

And that two are stuck in the "good team has no more top 10 picks" loop that Thompson has been working on for 12 years? The third was fired for cap reasons?

Does it occur to any of you that this isn't that much that separates these guys?

Does it occur to you that assuming Ball won't sign FAs because Ted high fives him twice is kinda guesswork?

Does it occur to anyone that the key to success is a little luck and making the most of what you have on hand. Which means Ted's greatest failure wasn't a lack of a 2nd SB, it was not getting on same page with Dom or forcing M3 to fire him?

And that the new guy will have all the same challenges AND more?

And that the odds are that the Packers will now be worse off, because they have been so much better off than the rest of the League?

If it turns out that Murphy did all this to knock over the dominoes to Rodgers next contract, keep MM around, get new GM that M3 and AR like better, he will have single handedly made the worst decision since Forrest Gregg got a contract extension and more power?

I still believe that any GM style issues and performance issues set to the side:

Ted Thompson didn't look to be healthy. That very likely TT didn't deserve the stress of the GM's job if in fact failing health was a TRUTH and therefore a solid reason to dismiss him as the Packer GM.

A.) Will Packers President and CEO Mark Murphy select Russ Ball as the next Packer GM?

I don't know.

B.) The Rumour and MM leaving as Packer HC; if Russ Ball becomes the next Packer GM? Why !? This one is puzzling.

Wouldn't it have been then Packer GM TT (and loyalty to MM) and Packer Russ Ball (Vice President of Football Administration / Player Finance) that negotiated that new extension to MM's Contract to include the 2019 Season?

I thought about this possibility and Mike McCarthy and his 'own skin':

Maybe, Mike McCarthy expected a longer Extension beyond the 2019 Season and Russ Ball vetoed that? Mike McCarthy's Irish temper kicks in. :idea:

That possibility aside.

What about MM wanting a more 'all in approach' (ie using FA and Trades etc.) from Packer Football Operations and pup the TOOLS support to maximize The obvious and shrinking window of opportunity having Aaron Rodgers, generally accepted now as the NFL's Finest Player.

MM and Aaron Rodgers are certainly by all common sense and REPORTS on the same page there.

Obviously Ted Thompson wasn't getting that done and the Packer Defense going consistently South. It appears that Mike McCarthy might use that as his defense and retaining Dom Capers for over the Top like Shawn Slocum, far too long, until it was as easy as 1-2-3 that after this 2017 Season MM had to FIRE Dom Capers..

C.) Could Russ Ball be efficient as the New Packer GM?

If Mark Murphy elects to promote him as the next Packer GM he would certainly have to think so.

What do any of you Packerrats think?

See the thread I created on Russ Ball last night; to help Y'all analyze that.

[pbmax]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS4V7LDWsAA_nVY.jpg

https://t.co/QdiTrgNmzj

Rob Demovsky @RobDemovsky
From the story on John Schneider is this about how the interview process has gone so far:

[Bretsky]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS4V7LDWsAA_nVY.jpg

https://t.co/QdiTrgNmzj

Rob Demovsky @RobDemovsky
From the story on John Schneider is this about how the interview process has gone so far:



I have heard nothing on John Schneider...............is there any news there ????

[beveaux1]

I wonder if that's the same "source" that contributed to McGinn's article?

[Pugger]

I have heard nothing on John Schneider...............is there any news there ????

Didn't Seattle block Schneider from interviewing with Murphy? Now the only way he'd come is if we make a trade. I'd wager those clowns would demand a 1st round pick and I for one do not want us to do that now that we have a chance to draft higher than we've had in eons.

[woodbuck27]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DS4V7LDWsAA_nVY.jpg

https://t.co/QdiTrgNmzj

Rob Demovsky @RobDemovsky
From the story on John Schneider is this about how the interview process has gone so far:

There is nothing here that surprises me. :-)

[woodbuck27]

I have heard nothing on John Schneider...............is there any news there ????

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawks/seahawks-deny-packers-permission-to-talk-to-gm-john-schneider-but-trade-could-still-be-in-works/

SeahawksSports

Seahawks deny Packers permission to talk to GM John Schneider, but that may not be the end of the story

Originally published January 6, 2018 at 10:44 am Updated January 6, 2018 at 12:38 pm

[Smidgeon]

Didn't Seattle block Schneider from interviewing with Murphy? Now the only way he'd come is if we make a trade. I'd wager those clowns would demand a 1st round pick and I for one do not want us to do that now that we have a chance to draft higher than we've had in eons.

Not when Schneider's track record isn't that great lately.

[pbmax]

AGREE; although I'd consider most coaches very good judges of who to go after in free agency

Fit in scheme, yes. How much left in tank or attitude? Only if they coached them.

[pbmax]

I have heard nothing on John Schneider...............is there any news there ????

They asked and Seattle said no. But Murphy could ask Goodell to adjudicate if Schneider has final 53 roster authority.

If not, then he can interview should he choose. The only reason I believe this to be an option now is the he and McCarthy were close personally.

Seattle and GB, if they think Goodell might rule either way, might come to terms on a pick first. But there is a lot of incentive for Seattle to ask for the moon and wait it out.

[pbmax]

John McClain @McClain_on_NFL
Brian Gutekunst is one of 6 possible GM candidates for the Texans to replace Rick Smith. He'll be in Houston for his interview Sunday. He was hired by Ron Wolf and worked for Ted Thompson. Gutekunst is a candidate to replace Thompson.

[gbgary]

They asked and Seattle said no. But Murphy could ask Goodell to adjudicate if Schneider has final 53 roster authority.

If not, then he can interview should he choose. The only reason I believe this to be an option now is the he and McCarthy were close personally.

Seattle and GB, if they think Goodell might rule either way, might come to terms on a pick first. But there is a lot of incentive for Seattle to ask for the moon and wait it out.

a trade for Schneider would be the absolute best thing for Green Bay. the fact that sea knows he wants out might make things happen. fingers crossed for this!!

[pbmax]

Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso
If Green Bay offers Schneider control over 53-man roster — which I don’t believe he has with #Seahawks — Seattle can’t deny this.


The guy is a legitimate reporters (or, at least works for legitimate outlets). Whether he knows what he is talking about here is anyone's guess.

BTW, there is a feeling in Seattle that Schneider's best drafts were with Scot McCloughan in the room.

[Smidgeon]

Chris Trapasso @ChrisTrapasso
If Green Bay offers Schneider control over 53-man roster — which I don’t believe he has with #Seahawks — Seattle can’t deny this.


The guy is a legitimate reporters (or, at least works for legitimate outlets). Whether he knows what he is talking about here is anyone's guess.

BTW, there is a feeling in Seattle that Schneider's best drafts were with Scot McCloughan in the room.

I'd consider Scot for GM too. Maybe.

[pbmax]

I'd consider Scot for GM too. Maybe.

If I am Russ Ball and I lose BG or EW, I hire Scot to run college scouting and pipe in on the draft.

[denverYooper]

I'd consider Scot for GM too. Maybe.

A lot of talent but a lot of baggage there.

But if you're going to be a practicing alcoholic, Wisconsin is the place to be.

[Bretsky]

a trade for Schneider would be the absolute best thing for Green Bay. the fact that sea knows he wants out might make things happen. fingers crossed for this!!

:knll::knll::knll:

[pbmax]

A lot of talent but a lot of baggage there.

But if you're going to be a practicing alcoholic, Wisconsin is the place to be.

Its a risk. Maybe you just make him chief scout if he's still going to drink. Send him out on the road with a driver.

[Bretsky]

Fit in scheme, yes. How much left in tank or attitude? Only if they coached them.

Yet still one step above a Cappie Joe

[Bretsky]

If I am Russ Ball and I lose BG or EW, I hire Scot to run college scouting and pipe in on the draft.

AM I THINKING OF THE WRONG GUY....or is he same one who went on and essentially lost his job due to boozing....not that there is anything wrong with that...don't want Red mad at me.....lol

[pbmax]

Yet still one step above a Cappie Joe

Baseball never thought it was going to be run by numbers guys either.

#fossils

[Bretsky]

Its a risk. Maybe you just make him chief scout if he's still going to drink. Send him out on the road with a driver.

CAN I VOLUNTEER MYSELF ???

[Bretsky]

Baseball never thought it was going to be run by numbers guys either.

#fossils



Good Idea !!!

SCREW CAPPIE RUSS

HIRE DAVID STEARNS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[pbmax]

Both Wilde and Silverstein thinks its a road too far to get Schneider.

Spoon: https://t.co/3STQGytDqa

Wilde: https://t.co/aC4Tmc52M8

[Rastak]

Both Wilde and Silverstein thinks its a road too far to get Schneider.

Spoon: https://t.co/3STQGytDqa

Wilde: https://t.co/aC4Tmc52M8

Lt. General Frederick "Boy" Browning: Well, as you know, I always felt we tried to go a bridge too far

[Bretsky]

Both Wilde and Silverstein thinks its a road too far to get Schneider.

Spoon: https://t.co/3STQGytDqa

Wilde: https://t.co/aC4Tmc52M8


SOME INTERESTING FEATURES

One big question is whether Murphy’s pursuit of Schneider, Oakland’s Reggie McKenzie (turned down the interview), Minnesota’s George Paton (interview denied by the Vikings while they’re still in the playoffs) and Baltimore’s Eric DeCosta (no reports that he accepted the interview) is part of a real search, or a formality with Murphy knowing all along whom he’s going to hire

AND THEN...........
I can see why coach Mike McCarthy would have concerns about Ball as GM, as has been widely reported in the last couple days. One NFL source told me that Thompson and Ball have been in lockstep on the team’s approach to acquiring players, which is the most draft-oriented approach in the NFL