Who's the scapegoat now?

[Smidgeon]

A vocal continent in PackerRats has been consistently pushing for the dismissal of both TT and DC for a variety of reasons. This offseason, they got their wish.

I just gotta know, who's the target now? Because I can't imagine everyone will suddenly turn content. After all, eight consecutive years of playoff appearances, a few NFCC appearances, a Super Bowl victory, a HOF QB, a DPOY FA acquisition, a Top 5 LT, and drafting the franchise sack leader is not enough to prevent people from trying to run the GM out of town.

Who's the new scapegoat for when they fail to win the Super Bowl every year?

Consider it an open poll.

[pbmax]

McCarthy then Murphy.

[Joemailman]

If Ball is the GM and they are $1 under the salary cap, the problem will be that Murphy hired a "cap guy".

[woodbuck27]

McCarthy then Murphy.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/f8/0e/2f/f80e2f1a7f2a0a629527b8b4a4d50983--vintage-photos-english-bulldogs.jpg

[Bossman641]

McCarthy, Ball, and Murphy...in that order.

[woodbuck27]

A) Pro Sports Management falls out of favour with a Teams fans; because fans know when they are failing miserably.

B) When there's clear evidence to support objective reasons for why Fans see it that way and for any prolonged period of time.

Packers HC Mike McCarthy is definitely and likely now more that ever on the Hot Seat for the 2018 Season.

As I see it his time already ran out, but by certain graces he was protected before the 2017 Season ended :-) or as we must now believe. :roll:

Pacts do not favour Winning. Good Management and competent Coaching are more likely to satisfy and a Pro Teams Fan base.

In the case of the Green Bay Packers, winning NFCN Titles whenever, is no longer a satisfactory measure.

It's all about supporting Aaron Rodgers and winning a Super Bowl. Nothing else but a Super Bowl appearance is satisfactory now.

[Carolina_Packer]

Smidgeon, I think there are degrees of scapegoating/blaming. I will own that I questioned the possibility of firing Capers and letting TT continue to be the solution provider for the roster issues. I wanted Capers to be replaced and I wanted TT to step aside or move into a new role, as was previously indicated would be the plan when he's done. I think when they knew they needed to move on from Capers, it was a reasonable time for the organization to address the longer-term needs in the front office.

I try to be reasonable and see relationships between things that are happening. Capers didn't pick all the green as grass backups on D. Capers didn't resist reasonable free agent signings for the D. He may have had some input, but was not the final decision maker. He took what he was given and tried to coach them up with his staff, and the results were mixed. He has to wear the results, even if it's not all his fault.

TT had his chances to fix the defense, but in the multiple chances that he had, they could never really get back to where they were in the Super Bowl year, when the D still had Collins, Tramon, and Woodson and a young Clay. I think it just shows how hard it is to find talent. In totality, TT did well. Lately his record was not as good, he was letting guys walk who had talent to offer other teams, which didn't used to happen, and likely the biggest factor, he's getting older, and the team needs some new perspective.

I don't think I was scapegoating as much as being realistic to what was happening and wanting the team to take a new approach to fixing what was wrong, and there definitely are deficiencies that need to be addressed. We're not out of the woods yet. It's a good start, but it works with the new leadership/coaches when they start to overcome the deficiencies they were showing, which hopefully will be the case in A-Rod's remaining time here. Staying the same wasn't going to work, that's all it was for me. If it had been working well with TT and Capers, sure, stay as long as you want. It wasn't, so it was time for the change. No disrespect to any previous success.

[pbmax]

If the talent you have is young, have you failed to secure talent or did you fail to put a plan in place for the talent, young though it might be, to succeed?

You cannot always have vet backups and veteran starters. Its expensive that way. Its also the reverse of the entire Packers MO.

[gbgary]

If Ball is the GM and they are $1 under the salary cap, the problem will be that Murphy hired a "cap guy".

lol. NOW WAIT A GOSH DARN MINUTE!

[George Cumby]

So your assertion is that the Packers have been "failing miserably" as a franchise?

[gbgary]

scapegoat? it's clear the team doesn't have enough talent. that's on TT. and it's clear that the defense took the brunt of the talent shortage...that's on TT. it's clear, that despite the defensive talent gap, that year after year they rolled over millions in unused cap money...that went unused the next year...and so on. that's on TT. now we're finding out, it seems, TT didn't give other's input much value. that it was his way only. that's on TT. as for Capers, he kept in place a complex defense despite the lack of talent to run it. that's on Capers. Edger? who knows about him yet. i never really saw his stamp on the o considering MM's involvement in it. seemed like a title in name only. he probably just passed on MM's plans (a middle man) in meetings. he's probably still around because MM know's he's a good coach that can add something and that he's willing to take a demotion to stay there. the QB coach supposedly told them he wanted to go last off season. scapegoat implies someone got fired who was blameless. i don't think that's the case.

[pbmax]

A complex D needs veterans to run it, not talent necessarily. Even Collins/Woodson/Harris had communication issues at the backend of Capers D.

Someone posted the overall numbers for the Capers era on Twitter. Like 5th in sacks for last 10 years, 2nd in INTs, etc. Anyone else see that?

[gbgary]

A complex D needs veterans to run it, not talent necessarily. Even Collins/Woodson/Harris had communication issues at the backend of Capers D.

Someone posted the overall numbers for the Capers era on Twitter. Like 5th in sacks for last 10 years, 2nd in INTs, etc. Anyone else see that?

wonder where they ranked in big plays given up? numbers are important but the eye test tells a bigger story. who around here would give the D a passing grade since the superbowl? did you see the stat for this year that our d was 100% in allowing points in the red zone? that's disgraceful. only happened one other time ever. smh

[Rutnstrut]

A complex D needs veterans to run it, not talent necessarily. Even Collins/Woodson/Harris had communication issues at the backend of Capers D.

Someone posted the overall numbers for the Capers era on Twitter. Like 5th in sacks for last 10 years, 2nd in INTs, etc. Anyone else see that?

Where did they rank on 3rd and long? Capers defenses always made me nervous as hell on 3rd downs.

[HowardRoark]

Medical/training staff

[bobblehead]

A vocal continent in PackerRats has been consistently pushing for the dismissal of both TT and DC for a variety of reasons. This offseason, they got their wish.

I just gotta know, who's the target now? Because I can't imagine everyone will suddenly turn content. After all, eight consecutive years of playoff appearances, a few NFCC appearances, a Super Bowl victory, a HOF QB, a DPOY FA acquisition, a Top 5 LT, and drafting the franchise sack leader is not enough to prevent people from trying to run the GM out of town.

Who's the new scapegoat for when they fail to win the Super Bowl every year?

Consider it an open poll.

I believe Woodbuck has a post in another thread already criticizing Mark Murphy because we still haven't won the super bowl since TT was fired.

[ThunderDan]

I believe Woodbuck has a post in another thread already criticizing Mark Murphy because we still haven't won the super bowl since TT was fired.

If Mark Murphy was a real go-getter he would already have 1 Super Bowl victory under his belt since TT was removed.

[bobblehead]

If the talent you have is young, have you failed to secure talent or did you fail to put a plan in place for the talent, young though it might be, to succeed?

You cannot always have vet backups and veteran starters. Its expensive that way. Its also the reverse of the entire Packers MO.

And largely the MO of every long term successful team.

[pbmax]

Where did they rank on 3rd and long? Capers defenses always made me nervous as hell on 3rd downs.

It was often a nightmare, but his better D's had better success on 3rd down. Often pressure or a pick. The Packers long had a problem with pass coverage in the middle of the field.

But the numbers I saw were not down and distance. They were totals for his tenure.

[texaspackerbacker]

One group of haters got their way with Capers being gone; Another group including me got our way with Ted being gone. That's old business now. The relevant thing is who gets either job and more precisely, what kind of D will we have and what kind of personnel policy will we have going forward?

We damn well better get a DC who is creative and scheming - very similar to Dom Capers, as any improvement in personnel is gonna take time even if free agency is used. As for the GM replacement, it will take a pretty drastic change to make a short term difference. Hopefully, the new guy can clean up Ted's mess while Aaron Rodgers still has some top quality play in him.

[Tony Oday]

I don't see what "mess" TT made that can't be fix quickly. Not like when Sherman loaded this team with over the hill guys in big contracts keeping us right at the cap.

[Vincenzo]

A vocal continent in PackerRats has been consistently pushing for the dismissal of both TT and DC for a variety of reasons. This offseason, they got their wish.

I just gotta know, who's the target now? Because I can't imagine everyone will suddenly turn content. After all, eight consecutive years of playoff appearances, a few NFCC appearances, a Super Bowl victory, a HOF QB, a DPOY FA acquisition, a Top 5 LT, and drafting the franchise sack leader is not enough to prevent people from trying to run the GM out of town.

Who's the new scapegoat for when they fail to win the Super Bowl every year?

Consider it an open poll.
I don't think it takes too much of a genius to figure out that Smidgeon here is implying that we as a fan base are generally speaking a bunch of malcontents, and a malcontent is defined as a person who is dissatisfied, an agitator or a complainer making trouble.

https://cdn.vectorstock.com/i/thumb-large/06/27/angry-man-cartoon-vector-2840627.jpg

[Fosco33]

A vocal continent in PackerRats has been consistently pushing for the dismissal of both TT and DC for a variety of reasons. This offseason, they got their wish.

I just gotta know, who's the target now? Because I can't imagine everyone will suddenly turn content. After all, eight consecutive years of playoff appearances, a few NFCC appearances, a Super Bowl victory, a HOF QB, a DPOY FA acquisition, a Top 5 LT, and drafting the franchise sack leader is not enough to prevent people from trying to run the GM out of town.

Who's the new scapegoat for when they fail to win the Super Bowl every year?

Consider it an open poll.

We want more - when you have one of the best QBs of all time - you should expect multiple SB victories (look at the Pats).

In order - if the goal was making the playoffs, fine... but there's a clear difference between a playoff and SB push.

How many close playoff and NFCC losses have we watched - Seattle was bad and getting blown out last year was embarrassing.

I love Aaron. Glad he fell to us in the draft. But it's not like we traded up or found him like we did with Favre.

Woodson was a great FA. So was Peppers. But they were too infrequent. We watched this team with gaping holes at RB, OL being filled with JAGS the past few years.

I've stated my thoughts on Matthews many times. Injury prone and decent player but not worth his paycheck.

Look at TTs actual picks in a boom, jury is out, bust category and it shows more misses than hits.
https://scout.com/nfl/packers/ContentGallery/Why-the-Packers-Were-Right-to-Replace-Thompson-113156654

And Dom... he's fine. But teams know his style and it got stale. Along with constant injuries and communication issues - no issues with new blood.

[pbmax]

All defenses get figured out. It will take teams 8 games next year to figure out the new Packer D. Everyone knows the new Steelers D under Butler and knows Le Beau's D in Tennessee, but it can still be played great.

You still need to execute and have some talent to win. We can argue the D talent all day long, but the execution was terrible the last two years.

[Fosco33]

All defenses get figured out. It will take teams 8 games next year to figure out the new Packer D. Everyone knows the new Steelers D under Butler and knows Le Beau's D in Tennessee, but it can still be played great.

You still need to execute and have some talent to win. We can argue the D talent all day long, but the execution was terrible the last two years.

For sure. I think it was talent and execution. Adding staleness didn't make the problem better.

IMO - a great coach takes the talent available and adjusts the scheme. Or adjusts the scheme vs the opponent. Sure - there was the latter - but not enough visible evidence of the former.

[texaspackerbacker]

All defenses get figured out. It will take teams 8 games next year to figure out the new Packer D. Everyone knows the new Steelers D under Butler and knows Le Beau's D in Tennessee, but it can still be played great.

You still need to execute and have some talent to win. We can argue the D talent all day long, but the execution was terrible the last two years.

"Have some talent" is the key. You have to assume that any coach is gonna get his players to execute at near the top of their ability on the pro level. As for other teams catching on, that's where you need to adjust and compensate and keep on being one step ahead. That's where Capers was great IMO. It's possible he wasn't the greatest motivator - which is reason to get him a whip-cracking helper, not get rid of him. A lot of people in here liked Kevin Greene - I didn't much. I saw him as 90% motivator and 10% brains, where a coordinator needs to have the balance the other way. I just hope we get somebody a LOT more like Capers as DC and much less like Greene.

Of course, having a GM who will upgrade the talent level significantly while Aaron Rodgers is still at the top of his game is an even more important factor.

So who gets scapegoated next? Hopefully nobody, but if we don't win big and win consistently the guy making the decisions on the replacements gets the blame.

Somebody in this thread talked about if the Packers were really all that bad; Of course they weren't. But it's like the current staff started out on third base and couldn't score. Well, the new guys will be starting out on third base too (third base being having Aaron Rodgers at QB). Hopefully they can get home.

[Pugger]

I believe Woodbuck has a post in another thread already criticizing Mark Murphy because we still haven't won the super bowl since TT was fired.

:lol:

[Pugger]

All defenses get figured out. It will take teams 8 games next year to figure out the new Packer D. Everyone knows the new Steelers D under Butler and knows Le Beau's D in Tennessee, but it can still be played great.

You still need to execute and have some talent to win. We can argue the D talent all day long, but the execution was terrible the last two years.

This. Why else has the middle of the field been open to TEs and RBs all the time with nary a defender 5 yards nearby? Why else have we been able to make mediocre QBs look like Tom freaking Brady while they stand in the pocket eating a sandwich waiting for a receiver to get open down field?

[Pugger]

"Have some talent" is the key. You have to assume that any coach is gonna get his players to execute at near the top of their ability on the pro level. As for other teams catching on, that's where you need to adjust and compensate and keep on being one step ahead. That's where Capers was great IMO. It's possible he wasn't the greatest motivator - which is reason to get him a whip-cracking helper, not get rid of him. A lot of people in here liked Kevin Greene - I didn't much. I saw him as 90% motivator and 10% brains, where a coordinator needs to have the balance the other way. I just hope we get somebody a LOT more like Capers as DC and much less like Greene.

Of course, having a GM who will upgrade the talent level significantly while Aaron Rodgers is still at the top of his game is an even more important factor.

So who gets scapegoated next? Hopefully nobody, but if we don't win big and win consistently the guy making the decisions on the replacements gets the blame.

Somebody in this thread talked about if the Packers were really all that bad; Of course they weren't. But it's like the current staff started out on third base and couldn't score. Well, the new guys will be starting out on third base too (third base being having Aaron Rodgers at QB). Hopefully they can get home.

It is unrealistic to compare ourselves to the Patriots. What they are doing is unprecedented but even they went 10 years without a ring. The only other team in the league up until this year that has been in the playoffs as consistently is the one in a small city in WI.

[Guiness]

It is unrealistic to compare ourselves to the Patriots. What they are doing is unprecedented but even they went 10 years without a ring. The only other team in the league up until this year that has been in the playoffs as consistently is the one in a small city in WI.

QFT.

Before this year, Packers had the second best record in the league over the last 10 seasons, and are probably a Bostick brain fart away from another SB appearance. They had finished the regular season with double-digit victories in eight of the past 10 seasons, and have made the playoffs going on eight years straight.

Does that excuse this season? Hell no, and MM's statements that Hundley is 'much improved' worries the hell out of me.

[Guiness]

"Have some talent" is the key. You have to assume that any coach is gonna get his players to execute at near the top of their ability on the pro level.

Do you though? Did, to pick a favorite whipping boy here, Slocum have his players executing at the top of their ability?

[mraynrand]

I don't think it takes too much of a genius to figure out that Smidgeon here is implying that we as a fan base are generally speaking a bunch of malcontents, and a malcontent is defined as a person who is dissatisfied, an agitator or a complainer making trouble.


if the shoe fits...

[esoxx]

I still blame Kurt Schottenheimer.

[pbmax]

I still blame Kurt Schottenheimer.

And that is a mark against Ball. Kurt S commented about him positively in Michael Cohen's article.

[Packgator]

Who's the new scapegoat for when they fail to win the Super Bowl every year?

Steve Bartman

[Zool]

We want more - when you have one of the best QBs of all time - you should expect multiple SB victories (look at the Pats).

In order - if the goal was making the playoffs, fine... but there's a clear difference between a playoff and SB push.

How many close playoff and NFCC losses have we watched - Seattle was bad and getting blown out last year was embarrassing.

I love Aaron. Glad he fell to us in the draft. But it's not like we traded up or found him like we did with Favre.

Woodson was a great FA. So was Peppers. But they were too infrequent. We watched this team with gaping holes at RB, OL being filled with JAGS the past few years.

I've stated my thoughts on Matthews many times. Injury prone and decent player but not worth his paycheck.

Look at TTs actual picks in a boom, jury is out, bust category and it shows more misses than hits.
https://scout.com/nfl/packers/ContentGallery/Why-the-Packers-Were-Right-to-Replace-Thompson-113156654

And Dom... he's fine. But teams know his style and it got stale. Along with constant injuries and communication issues - no issues with new blood.

How many super bowl rings does Marino have?