McCarthy Has To Go

[pbmax]

I admire him. I think he was a very good coach and earned the Super Bowl trophy he held aloft. I think he is held up to ridicule for the wrong reasons and not given his due.

But 10+ years might be too long. We have entered the phase of self delusion. He is six weeks from becoming Herm Edwards or Jon Gruden. Even if this year is a success, I don't want him signed to a new deal.

Tom Silverstein @TomSilverstein
McCarthy said he’s “sick and tired of his defense being a step-child. This is a team game. Great defenses win championships.” Said he wants defense to have that attitude.

He is an emotional Sherman-esque wreck at this point. Needs to move on. Will be glad to have him back for his induction into the Packer Hall of Fame.

[pbmax]

I'll give McGinn and Florio their due: it does sorta seem that Mike wanted Ted to sign some FAs.


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DXJaO4LVQAAavoZ.jpg:large

[red]

thats rich

he's blaming everyone but himself. he's shitting on the defense (and rightfully so), but who kept capers around for so long

many fans had seen that the capers d had become a joke, it didn't just fall apart this year, its been that way for a few years now, and he did nothing about it until murphy decided it was time to clean house, and the fans finally started bitching loud enough for fat ass to here that he had to to something

no he's gone on this campaign of blaming everyone in the organization but himself for not getting back to the super bowl

[pbmax]

I think he thinks that Capers was not at fault. That they were missing parts and Capers did the best he could.

Last year's lost season was a convenient time to let him go and start anew. But it doesn't mean that McCarthy believes he had any role in the demise of the defense.

And I think that is the generous interpretation of what he is saying. The other version is that 31st ranked pass D is the best you can expect in a down year. Which is just throwing in the towel on one side of the ball.

I really think he is done.

[Pugger]

So, pbmax, who do you suggest we hire to replace him in 2019 (or this season if the team falls apart)?

[Vincenzo]

thats rich

he's blaming everyone but himself. he's shitting on the defense (and rightfully so), but who kept capers around for so long

many fans had seen that the capers d had become a joke, it didn't just fall apart this year, its been that way for a few years now, and he did nothing about it until murphy decided it was time to clean house, and the fans finally started bitching loud enough for fat ass to here that he had to to something

no he's gone on this campaign of blaming everyone in the organization but himself for not getting back to the super bowl
McCarthy has one year left as the Packer Coach, it's that simple. The writing is on the wall. The fans are restless and the team is overdue for a change at the head coach position.

[pbmax]

So, pbmax, who do you suggest we hire to replace him in 2019 (or this season if the team falls apart)?

Sean McVay or Doug Pedersen :lol:

I am not actually sure. Two guys who I thought would do well were Mike McCoy and Adam Gase. Gase is stuck without a QB in Miami and might work out eventually, but McCoy has been bounced twice and that ship might have already sunk.

I do not want McDaniels. He has Eliot Wolf, Boy Wonder written all over him.

I would have to go back over the list of candidates from this year and see if anyone else pops out. I prefer to Hot Assistant route rather than retread with a different message/focus. My hope is the Packers commit to whoever it is and make sure they get better.

McCarthy did for awhile, but I just get the sense that he has settled into his ways and has decided others let him down. I hope I am wrong and eating crow next offseason, but there seem to be worrying signs with McCarthy unleashed this offseason.

[pbmax]

In the context of the story written for McCarthy's Combine PC, I think its better? I haven't watched the video yet, but I believe he was asked about why he thinks the defense needs to be better than the offense, or if he feels thats a realistic goal. He is trying to change the mindset of the defense, I guess?


INDIANAPOLIS – Mike McCarthy understands the long-held perception of his team. The Green Bay Packers' roster has a natural hierarchy: There is Aaron Rodgers, and there has been everyone else.

In an offseason of wide-sweeping change in Green Bay, McCarthy would like to chuck that notion. His messaging started not long after the season when, in a news conference announcing defensive coordinator Dom Capers’ firing, McCarthy said he expects the Packers' defense to be better than their offense. If you found that goal a little startling, you weren’t alone.

As McCarthy explained Wednesday at the NFL scouting combine, it was an attempt to rewire his defense’s mindset.

“It’s got to be a mentality,” McCarthy said. “I’m sick and tired of our defense feeling like the stepchild. I mean, how many times do you have to tell them, ‘You’re not the stepchild'? That’s a blatant statement, and it’s not a cure-all. But it’s definitely a starting point.”

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/02/28/mike-mccarthy-packers-defense-youre-not-stepchild/382717002/

The problem is that most of this sounds like soundbites, not a plan. But I also don't expect him to reveal the plan at the Combine. So my concern stays the same, he isn't obviously invested in what makes a defense consistently good, he is interested in changing the mission statement, apparently.

He also said defense wins Championships, after a Super Bowl won 51-50 or thereabouts. I thought getting Thompson out of there would relieve the pressure of McCarthy being the spokesperson for the team. I wish he would stop.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Highly successful NFL coaches are good trade baits. Why not trade McCarthy for some draft picks? Plenty of bottom dwellers would love to have McCarthy coach them. Trade McCarthy to the Browns, a team that's becoming Green Bay east.

I know everyone and their baby mamas think J-Mac is a donkey-hole. But I honestly believe A-Rod would be even better in J-Mac's offense. Cobb is in a contract year, but he'd be a 100+ catch receiver with J-Mac calling the plays.

[Fritz]

"McCarthy Has To Go"

I picture BabyMikey holding his weiner and squirming like a four-year-old boy.

Seriously, though, I think that short-term MM may be positioning himself (given reasonable team health and good Rodgers health) for a deep run next season - some new coaching blood, probably some FA's, likely 12 draft picks added to the mix.

My fear is that BabyM will parlay that into a long-term contract extension, and then we're going to see the drip drip drip downfall of the Green Bay Packers. Back to wandering in the desert for another twenty-some years. It'll be like 1973 - 1992 all over again.

[Joemailman]

I think he thinks that Capers was not at fault. That they were missing parts and Capers did the best he could.

Last year's lost season was a convenient time to let him go and start anew. But it doesn't mean that McCarthy believes he had any role in the demise of the defense.

And I think that is the generous interpretation of what he is saying. The other version is that 31st ranked pass D is the best you can expect in a down year. Which is just throwing in the towel on one side of the ball.

I really think he is done.

Totally disagree. I had the sense late in the year, judging from MM's post-game press conferences, that he had finally had it with Capers. I think it started with the loss at Pittsburgh when Hundley had the game of his life but the defense got torched. I would have been shocked if Capers hadn't been fired, based on what MM was saying, and not saying. When he made his "patterns of negativity" comment, I knew Capers was done.

[Fritz]

If we really want to see history replayed, MM will be fired in two years after signing a long-term extension next year, and GuttyKlumps will first hire Brian Whatsis, the Notre Dame coach, then will fire him after his dog gets shot and will hire Brent Favre to bring back the glory days.

[wist43]

McCarthy doesn't need to go... he was only the problem inasmuch as he tolerated Capers for far, far too long.

Had we hired a competent DC 5-6 years ago we would have won at least one more title in that timeframe.

The problem has always been defense and TT's weird preference for soft CB's who have a knack for the INT, but pretty much suck at everything else. That and his bizarre lack of interest in the ILB position.

It'll be interesting to see what Pettine can do.

[pbmax]

Totally disagree. I had the sense late in the year, judging from MM's post-game press conferences, that he had finally had it with Capers. I think it started with the loss at Pittsburgh when Hundley had the game of his life but the defense got torched. I would have been shocked if Capers hadn't been fired, based on what MM was saying, and not saying. When he made his "patterns of negativity" comment, I knew Capers was done.

That explanation makes the least sense to me of all. Everything in that game was apparent in the last six years.

There were years when the D got better toward the end of the season, but 3rd downs and pass D versus good QBs were still bad. The fact they outplayed the offense in the postseason 2-3 times was as much as the offense struggling and the D excelling.

[Joemailman]

That explanation makes the least sense to me of all. Everything in that game was apparent in the last six years.

There were years when the D got better toward the end of the season, but 3rd downs and pass D versus good QBs were still bad. The fact they outplayed the offense in the postseason 2-3 times was as much as the offense struggling and the D excelling.

I think the argument can definitely be made that it took McCarthy at least a couple years too long to fire Capers. He's very loyal to his coaches. Perhaps to a fault. But I do think that late in the year he finally came to the conclusion a change had to be made. Or perhaps it happened earlier.I felt after the Atlanta game that we've seen this before. Perhaps he did too.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

If we really want to see history replayed, MM will be fired in two years after signing a long-term extension next year, and GuttyKlumps will first hire Brian Whatsis, the Notre Dame coach, then will fire him after his dog gets shot and will hire Brent Favre to bring back the glory days.

I understand the analogy, but I don't see the Gunslinger coaching in the NFL. Too time-consuming. As a GM, sure.

Elway hires a bunch of people to do the dirty work for him, sits in his office all day watching youtube clips of pro and college players, makes all the decisions and takes all the credits. I could see Favre doing something like that, preferably in the Green and Gold.

[pbmax]

I have the sneaking suspicion that Brett wants and maybe needs an infusion of cash. I cannot believe how many copper band ads I see with him and Jerry Rice.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

I have the sneaking suspicion that Brett wants and maybe needs an infusion of cash. I cannot believe how many copper band ads I see with him and Jerry Rice.

Favre drives a Ford 150 and he wears that old Nike Golf hat everyday. Doubt he's broke. Probably doing all those commercials to pay his property taxes and his kids' tuition without draining the saving account.

[Zool]

Or he's a narcissist.

[Gotarace]

When the Packers had Stubby sitting in on the GM interviews it made me sick. Talk about a Ego Booster to McStubby. I really think it tainted the GM pool and made many back off when they couldn't name or fire the coach. The three headed answer to Murphy clusterfuck is a setup to failure. I've seen enough of Stubby and this year exposed him for the fraud he is...without Aaron Stubby would been axed years ago.

[Fritz]

What he say.

[Joemailman]

I'm not crazy about the idea that Murphy, and not the GM, will hire and fire the head coach (I don't think the sky is falling either). But once that decision was made, maybe it made sense that McCarthy would have a part in the interview process. Murphy might have wanted to make sure that the HC and GM have similar ideas on how to build a team. When the time comes to hire a new HC, I would expect the GM to have a role in the interview process, even though Murphy will make the final call.

[Vincenzo]

When the Packers had Stubby sitting in on the GM interviews it made me sick. Talk about a Ego Booster to McStubby. I really think it tainted the GM pool and made many back off when they couldn't name or fire the coach. The three headed answer to Murphy clusterfuck is a setup to failure. I've seen enough of Stubby and this year exposed him for the fraud he is...without Aaron Stubby would been axed years ago.
Stubby" sat in the GM interviews clearly because he's still a HUGE part of the equation at 1265 Lombardi Ave. Yes he should have been axed years ago, but feel good to know that his days are numbered, and those numbers are getting very small.

[Pugger]

Other than keeping Capers around too damn long what exactly is it about MM that you gentlemen find wanting? In most cases a SB winning HC whose team participates in the playoffs 8 straight years doesn't get canned unless their team starts losing more.

[Fritz]

Not that he hasn't been a good coach; that his expiration date is up. He has displayed a tendency, emphasized this year particularly, of throwing others under the bus. Case in point: Hundley, Brent. Not prepared? Oh, it was some offensive coach's fault. Fire his ass. Oh, and we needed more talent than we were getting - not the head coach's fault. Oh, and the defense has been lousy for some time, but now that that's been exposed for real due to Rodgers's injury, fire the DC. (I did agree with that move, though it was a couple years late.) And then the power grab.

So that's what's bothersome. My concern is that this could payoff short term, but that that would mean a long-term extension for BabyM and a long-term disaster would be the result.

[woodbuck27]

Favre drives a Ford 150 and he wears that old Nike Golf hat everyday. Doubt he's broke. Probably doing all those commercials to pay his property taxes and his kids' tuition without draining the saving account.

Brett Favre Wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brett_Favre

A source and Favre's Net Worth (I don't know if this is accurate !?).

https://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth/athletes/nfl/brett-favre-net-worth/

The Richest and NF and Look for Aaron Rodgers:

https://www.therichest.com/celebnetworth-category/athletes/nfl/

[woodbuck27]

Other than keeping Capers around too damn long what exactly is it about MM that you gentlemen find wanting? In most cases a SB winning HC whose team participates in the playoffs 8 straight years doesn't get canned unless their team starts losing more.

:cnf: Pugger I must say when it comes down to the category of LOYALTY.Your the ultimate example of all that must mean.

Frankly LOYALTY for doesn't make Great Leaders Great Leaders inspire loyalty.

Pugger:

what would you deem as common characteristics of 'a Solid Leader'; and then look at MM and carefully and honestly examine all you see in him, and does he fit that mold of being a Great Leader?

Solid Leadership is a lot of things; but I want to express what I see a Leader needs in his / her makeup as a bottom line:

I believe it comes down to a bottom line of being respected. It sure helps before the Media to say things that are more inspiring that just your latest spin. If your ever going to say something you better make your audience is really comfortable and believing in most of what you say. Otherwise you might consider a career move and being 'a Politician' where being believed is moot.

Suddenly, Mike McCarthy's latest tact and the BS I see coming from him is that he wants his 'D' to outplay his 'O'. Out play an Offense which is led arguably, by the acknowledged finest talent in the NFL and Aaron Rodgers. Mike McCarthy and in his 'magical thinking', is calling for the near bottom dweller in the NFL and it's Defensive Secondary to suddenly help the Packers 'D" outshine the Packers 'O' in a certain Pass oriented dominated game.

Sweet Mary, Mother of Jesus; Lord Thunderin' that is such utter Bullshit !

Now think about that Pugger. Just take a day, a week; heck, take the whole month of March and think about Mike McCarthy's latest 'Spin words'. If you cannot come up with an obvious conclusion and his BULLSHIT then I again salute your LOYALTY.

Mike McCarthy and Great Leadership. Did I just write that sentence and allow it to stand? Yes I did. I did so because I need to help Packerrats understand my position and Mike McCarthy:

Frankly, if I walk into a Room with a bunch of athletes and want to inspire them to try harder and well Gee: 'Be the shine on my Team'.... I had better be able to look down and see my shoes. :-)

Let's examine some recent Packer History Pugger:

Let's take it back to that game in Seattle where it sure looked like we had a great chance to get to the Super Bowl; and before MM went brain dead.

Do you remember that MM wasn't even sure where CM III was; and at a time in that game when the Packers 'D' had to shine and not toss the game, as it sure appeared to most of Packer Nation that 'D' was rocking back on it's collective heals as the Seattle Offense wasn't going to be denied a game that wa all but lost earlier.

So soon after blowing the game in Seattle we learn that MM is going to shake things up. He would 'surrender the play calling duties'; because he's now going to suddenly pay more attention to the Packers 'D'. Even to the extent of sitting in on Packer Defensive Position Package Meetings.

Suddenly we learn that Mike mcCarthy, was going to be 'all in' and the Packer 'D'. What in blue blazes was Mike McCarthy as Packer HC doing and the Packers 'D', before that embarrassing loss in Seattle?

Just more MM Spin !Was that spin inspirational to you Pugger !? Frankly IMO it was right before That MM spin; that If I was the Packer GM. I would have certainly FIRED both Mike McCarthy and Dom Capers after that embarrassment in Seattle and as a prudent or necessary start to my Off Season. The fact that didn't happen goes to the 'all a Family locked on the same Ole' attitude we have certainly been witness to and the Green Bay Packers. Yawn ! :bang:

Mike McCarthy's the Packer Head Coach; the 'on Field Face' of the Green Bay Packers. Needs to at least appear as if he has half a clue; and time after time we just see the same Ole same Ole stubborn stubborn to learn /grow Mike McCarthy. We see MM getting fatter and fatter. We see Packer Players and over the top too many games lost to injuries; and what is Mike McCarthy's stand on that and this upcoming Season Pugger? What is the latest MM Spin and getting in Top Shape to play an NFL Schedule; and what does he do about his own appearance to inspire such rhetoric?

Where I come from and my time loving sports, playing sports and being 'a Leader'; studying what makes an effective Leader and winning. I can assure you that you better inspire by pure and simple EXAMPLE. I can assure you that you must be respected.

** You don't garner respect by not being aware of what's going on around you in critical game situations.

**You don't inspire respect by not going for the throat of the opponent but rather taking the soft or conservative approach.

** To take it to a recent 2017 Season game that might have been won.You don't inspire respect when you make very long shot decisions and game strategy and the cost giving up field position, to possibly lock your team completely out of that game just before Half Time. You make the decision to just get your Team in the Locker Room to re-group.

** Being a Great Leader means your SMART; not daring at exactly the wrong time and situation. Being a Great Leader means your like Bill Belichick and overall respected around the NFL as SMART.

** You don't inspire respect by FIRING (arguably) the TOP Coaches on your staff at the end of this past Season (see the 2017 Season ILBer Coach and the DL Coach),

** You don't inspire respect by letting your QB's Coach go without consulting with that QB; and especially when that QB is Aaron Rodgers.

Mike McCarthy was in full blown 'throw anyone I can under the bus to save my own skin' this Off Season. That is clearly the case and to not see that as the TRUTH you have to be dumb to anything real and the Green Bay Packers.

My goodness if you were paying close attention MM even tossed his most trusting ally under the bus and his negative comments and Former GM Ted Thompson. His best move there was to clearly shut the 'H' up !

Aren't we as Packer fans NOT wanting the very best Program installed and executed to see OUR Beloved Packers get to Super Bowls? Isn't that what Packer Nation is all about? A really good start to that Program has to be a Head Coach who is a Natural Born Leader who has cerain RESPECT and there are over the top too many examples of hings in TRUTH where MM fails right there.

Frankly I see clearly that MM needs to shut his trap, and try to save his fat ass by admitting his many failures and back stabbing tendencies. He has to shut the 'H' up because his next Spin is simply tiring worn out SPIN.

I am amazed that MM is still the Green Bay Packers Head Coach, because he's terrible. When I see him on the sidelines with a play book in his face I just want to scream:

LOSER ! Mike McCarthy is clearly the Green Bay Packers 'Weakest Link'.

Please don't extend Mike McCarthy's Contract

[pbmax]

Other than keeping Capers around too damn long what exactly is it about MM that you gentlemen find wanting? In most cases a SB winning HC whose team participates in the playoffs 8 straight years doesn't get canned unless their team starts losing more.

I think he is sorta getting Parcells and Holmgren disease. Instead of changing how they operate they look to acquire more power while blaming others for failure.

Its not clear that is happening here yet. But some of his comments lean in that direction.

I am also not happy that one comment at the Combine about the offense's restructuring was that they were going back to look at film of what they did well during Rodgers time there during their rebuild. They need to move forward and combat what the defenses have done to neutralize them, not find some previous magical formula.

[woodbuck27]

I think he is sorta getting Parcells and Holmgren disease. Instead of changing how they operate they look to acquire more power while blaming others for failure.

Its not clear that is happening here yet. But some of his comments lean in that direction.

I am also not happy that one comment at the Combine about the offense's restructuring was that they were going back to look at film of what they did well during Rodgers time there during their rebuild. They need to move forward and combat what the defenses have done to neutralize them, not find some previous magical formula.

They need to do what I'm sure many Packers might like to do and that is tape Mike McCarthy's mouth.

[George Cumby]

Or he's a narcissist.

"Or"?

[George Cumby]

Woody:
"Please don't extend Mike McCarthy's Contract"

Dear God, I agree with the insane Canadian..

[Pugger]

I'm not loyal to MM. I'm grateful for what he has done but if he's fired tomorrow, fine - just as long as we have someone better in mind. I asked pbmax for examples of coaches we should consider to replace MM and I'm still waiting for a response.

What if we go deep into the playoffs this coming season but don't win the SB. Would you all still be calling for his head on a platter?

[woodbuck27]

I'm not loyal to MM. I'm grateful for what he has done but if he's fired tomorrow, fine - just as long as we have someone better in mind. I asked pbmax for examples of coaches we should consider to replace MM and I'm still waiting for a response.

What if we go deep into the playoffs this coming season but don't win the SB. Would you all still be calling for his head on a platter?

Lord YES!

He must go at all cost and why!?

He's NOT Packer People. :huh:

[woodbuck27]

Woody:
"Please don't extend Mike McCarthy's Contract"

Dear God, I agree with the insane Canadian..

Hey George you know what's really insane?

'YOU' and your silly imagination that I'm actually insane. I'm far from being insane.

Yet... trying to be 'a fricken' Green Bay Packer fan; and a member of Packerrats.

I'm certainly a wee bit crazy. :-)

[Pugger]

Lord YES!

He must go at all cost and why!?

He's NOT Packers People. :huh:

And if we win the SB he still must go? Packers People? :lol:

I get it. You hate MM. So I'll ask you - who should we target as our next HC? Its easy to say "Fire so 'n so" but not if you don't have anyone better in mind. From what I understand Pettine isn't interested in another HC job. I don't see any other Packers' assistant who'd be better than MM. Philbin didn't do so well in Miami. Are there any NFL assistants out there we should consider? Or how about a collegiate HC? I don't think MM is as dreadful as you do but sometimes a new approach at the top is appropriate after a guy has been at the job for a while. But unless the new guy is a obvious upgrade making a change just because isn't always the right move either. The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence as they say.

[woodbuck27]

And if we win the SB he still must go? Packers People? :lol:

I get it. You hate MM. So I'll ask you - who should we target as our next HC? Its easy to say "Fire so 'n so" but not if you don't have anyone better in mind. From what I understand Pettine isn't interested in another HC job. I don't see any other Packers' assistant who'd be better than MM. Philbin didn't do so well in Miami. Are there any NFL assistants out there we should consider? Or how about a collegiate HC? I don't think MM is as dreadful as you do but sometimes a new approach at the top is appropriate after a guy has been at the job for a while. But unless the new guy is a obvious upgrade making a change just because isn't always the right move either. The grass isn't always greener on the other side of the fence as they say.

" I don't see any other Packers' assistant who'd be better than MM." Pugger

This would be better than Mike Mccarthy as the Packer HC:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81GGUDmozQL._SY355_.jpg

[Pugger]

" I don't see any other Packers' assistant who'd be better than MM." Pugger

This would be better than Mike Mccarthy as the Packer HC:

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81GGUDmozQL._SY355_.jpg

Cute.

It appears you don't have a real answer either. You are like too many Packers fans - you bitch when things go south but can't converse about it like an adult. Most of the decent NFL assistants that would be worth considering already have been hired this offseason. Among the collegiate ranks we could discuss Florida State's Jim Fisher, Northwesterns' Pat Fitzgerald, Notre Dame's Brian Kelly, Stanford's David Shaw , OK's Bob Stoops, A& M's Kevin Sumlin or AL's Nick Saban.

[woodbuck27]

Cute.

It appears you don't have a real answer either. You are like too many Packers fans - you bitch when things go south but can't converse about it like an adult. Most of the decent NFL assistants that would be worth considering already have been hired this offseason. Among the collegiate ranks we could discuss Florida State's Jim Fisher, Northwesterns' Pat Fitzgerald, Notre Dame's Brian Kelly, Stanford's David Shaw , OK's Bob Stoops, A& M's Kevin Sumlin or AL's Nick Saban.

Let's get this straight up front:

I'm a Canadian and a Christian and I do not allow anything to lower me to HATE. You American's HATE. Damn you fellas actually express hatred for the Minnesota Vikings and that's simply shocking to me. In my view of LIFE nothing about hatred is inspirational.

Weak people HATE. I'm far from weak.

If I was tasked to replace MM I know I could do so and after some careful analysis. Why am I so sure of that?

I have a strong ability to get it right after analysis.

To spin a few names of possible candidates wouldn't solve my desire to simply see Mike McCarthy go. Whomever replaces him will be tasked to the BRASS assigned to undertake that task.

Pugger when it comes to what I see or feel and direction I'm generally bang on. It's my experience in life I count on. I know that the day we see MM go is the day I can have some real hope that the Green Bay Packers might win another Super Bowl.

[red]

Cute.

It appears you don't have a real answer either. You are like too many Packers fans - you bitch when things go south but can't converse about it like an adult. Most of the decent NFL assistants that would be worth considering already have been hired this offseason. Among the collegiate ranks we could discuss Florida State's Jim Fisher, Northwesterns' Pat Fitzgerald, Notre Dame's Brian Kelly, Stanford's David Shaw , OK's Bob Stoops, A& M's Kevin Sumlin or AL's Nick Saban.

did you know who mike mccarthy was before we hired him? i'd say 95% of packer fans had never heard of him before he was linked to us

what about holmgren? was he a household name before he got him

was hoody, jesus walking on water when the pats made him head coach?

who the hell was vince lombardi before he became god in green bay? did we only move on from scooter mclean when it became know for a fact that lombari would win 5 championships for us?

just because you can't name the next HOF coach doesn't mean you shouldn't try and find him, and it sure as hell doesn't mean you have to stick with that large pile of dog shit that you currently havesitting in the seat

[red]

I'm not loyal to MM. I'm grateful for what he has done but if he's fired tomorrow, fine - just as long as we have someone better in mind. I asked pbmax for examples of coaches we should consider to replace MM and I'm still waiting for a response.

What if we go deep into the playoffs this coming season but don't win the SB. Would you all still be calling for his head on a platter?

you are very loyal to MM, maybe more so than any packer fan posting on any board

like you are with everything involving the packers. a player could get drunk and drive through the mall plowing people over on live TV, and you would be on here saying it didn't happen because a packer would never do something like that

[red]

I'm not loyal to MM. I'm grateful for what he has done but if he's fired tomorrow, fine - just as long as we have someone better in mind. I asked pbmax for examples of coaches we should consider to replace MM and I'm still waiting for a response.

What if we go deep into the playoffs this coming season but don't win the SB. Would you all still be calling for his head on a platter?

you are very loyal to MM, maybe more so than any packer fan posting on any board

like you are with everything involving the packers. a player could get drunk and drive through the mall plowing people over on live TV, and you would be on here saying it didn't happen because a packer would never do something like that

you are the epitome of the kool aide drinking homer, i don't think i've ever seen you say one bad thing about anything associated with the team, or even just something not over the top positive about it

[Pugger]

you are very loyal to MM, maybe more so than any packer fan posting on any board

like you are with everything involving the packers. a player could get drunk and drive through the mall plowing people over on live TV, and you would be on here saying it didn't happen because a packer would never do something like that

you are the epitome of the kool aide drinking homer, i don't think i've ever seen you say one bad thing about anything associated with the team, or even just something not over the top positive about it

Bull shit. Just because I look at things in a positive light doesn't mean I'm some dumbass like you are describing. I'd wager you weren't around back in the 70s and 80s when the team truly was terrible. Just because I appreciate these good times doesn't make me a blind homer. I know how good we've had it for 25 years and I know it won't last forever. You, sir, are just the opposite. You think Ted, MM and Murphy are morons and the team is full of losers (other than #12) who don't know their ass from 9th Street.

[red]

i grew up on those 70's and 80's teams

so, wrong

i just don't wake up every morning thinking the sun shines out of the ass of the packers organization. me and others can actually see some of the negatives in the organization

i believe you were one of the people i mentioned in another thread awhile back. who couldn't fathom how any of us could every want to get rid of such a great defensive coach like capers, or a great GM like TT. and then after it happened, you liked the moves, because the packers did it, and the packers can do no wrong

[Fritz]

Red's post brings up the philosophical question, who are the Green Bay Packers, really? Is it the GM? The ubiquitous owners? The president of the team? The players, who change every year? The coach?

[Maxie the Taxi]

Red's post brings up the philosophical question, who are the Green Bay Packers, really? Is it the GM? The ubiquitous owners? The president of the team? The players, who change every year? The coach?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkrRhnDWEW8

[Bretsky]

I'm not loyal to MM. I'm grateful for what he has done but if he's fired tomorrow, fine - just as long as we have someone better in mind. I asked pbmax for examples of coaches we should consider to replace MM and I'm still waiting for a response.

What if we go deep into the playoffs this coming season but don't win the SB. Would you all still be calling for his head on a platter?

:bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap:

[Bretsky]

you are very loyal to MM, maybe more so than any packer fan posting on any board

like you are with everything involving the packers. a player could get drunk and drive through the mall plowing people over on live TV, and you would be on here saying it didn't happen because a packer would never do something like that

you are the epitome of the kool aide drinking homer, i don't think i've ever seen you say one bad thing about anything associated with the team, or even just something not over the top positive about it



I have to be in the top 10 Anti Kool Aiders

But I don't get the MM hate; I just don't get it

[pbmax]

I'm not loyal to MM. I'm grateful for what he has done but if he's fired tomorrow, fine - just as long as we have someone better in mind. I asked pbmax for examples of coaches we should consider to replace MM and I'm still waiting for a response.

What if we go deep into the playoffs this coming season but don't win the SB. Would you all still be calling for his head on a platter?


1. I only have a limited amount of time to engage in this stuff!

2. It depends on how the team plays. A deep playoff run shouldn't be (but probably would be) a get out of jail free card for a new deal. But if the offense looks like the greatest hits plus better RBs then I would advocate dumping him even with a winning record.

I have underestimated him before. Maybe he reworks the offense and even without another D Adams find they light up the scoreboard. If that is the case, then I was wrong. but I sense creeping self satisfaction working its way in.

[pbmax]

:bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap::bclap:

I am going to assume that is 5 claps for firing his butt after a deep playoff run until you specify otherwise.

[Bretsky]

I am going to assume that is 5 claps for firing his butt after a deep playoff run until you specify otherwise.


NO; this thread completely baffles me.

MM is one of the top 10 coaches in the National Football League

Would you disagree ???

[pbmax]

NO; this thread completely baffles me.

MM is one of the top 10 coaches in the National Football League

Would you disagree ???

Overall? Yes. Today? No.

I think he has decided that the problems with the team and its less successful forays in the playoffs are mostly to do with player acquisition. And that spells trouble for me. He's made his share of mistakes in identifying players who can contribute.

The year of the great WR wipeout was probably not going to end in a Super Bowl trophy, though he still managed to blow that Cardinal playoff game by not going for 2.

And the year of the great CB plague was equally tough, but lots of talent deficient teams still play better pass D than his team did.

I could be wrong. We could still be reading the talent on the team to be more than it is. But I think he has underperformed of late.

[red]

Red's post brings up the philosophical question, who are the Green Bay Packers, really? Is it the GM? The ubiquitous owners? The president of the team? The players, who change every year? The coach?

its a great question

i have no answer

[woodbuck27]

The Head Coach on any team is important and particularly so for any NFL Team.

I watch Mike McCarthy very closely. I read what he says. I watch his Media conferences. I watch how he 'jives and chucks' or otherwise 'his manipulations'.

I see him frankly as ... GREASY. He reminds me a lot of too mauy Politicians; and I don't care for Politicians I would advise anyone when it comes to Mike McCarthy don;t turn your back on him or imagine you can trust him.

Am I the only Packerfan that feels he should have already been FIRED or is nearing the end? NO !

Here are Examples of other Packer fans on the merits of retaining Mike McCarthy as the Green Bay Packers Head Coach:

Fan A: " I agree with Packer Fan 'obviously SMART (see this Fans remark below) ! There is nothing special about MM. He has had the luxury of having a Hall of Fame QB his whole career and has 1 Super Bowl appearance (luckily a win). His 10-8 playoff record includes a 1-3 in NFC Championship games including losing a game with a 16-0 lead. Not having his backup QB ready to play is HIS responsibility. He is the one that stood pat with Callahan and Hundley as his backups. Hundley will NEVER be ready for prime time (anyone could see that) and Callahan is probably not the answer either, but MM decided that the Packers would be OK at that position. You can't blame the GM for MM's shortcomings."

Fan B: " I don't think MM has given Callahan a fair shot at No. 2. With Hundley playing as bad as he has, you'd think Callahan would have been given that shot to succeed. I wonder, how many players could have been great players if some coaches had given some players a fair shot. And on the flip-side, MM has given a lot of time for certain players to succeed, only finally having to release them. I question his ability to recognize talent and potential. Just think... without A. Rodgers, MM is a sub-par head coach.

I can still remember during the NFL Championship game against Seattle when MM got Morgan Burnett to down the ball after an interception that he could have ran back another 20 yards or more. That play might have hurt the Packers as much as the muffed on-side kick did. The TE that muffed the kick was immediately released, but MM kept his job. There were a lot of mistakes during the last 4 minutes of that game, and who was really at fault? "

Fan C: " Hundley did his best, but it seemed like his first day ever running a play.
Look around, look around, look around. Get happy feet, start jitter-bugging, then take a sack or "rush" for 3 yards.Does a professional football team let a guy on the field in that condition? "

Fan D: " Totally agree about Callahan, no way shouldn't he have gotten some quality playing time. MM totally dropped the ball on this one sticking with Hundley so long. "

Fan E: " I've been saying this for two years now... cannot agree more. It doesn't get any easier with the current schedule, MM will be under the microscope in 2018. He is an average coach IMO. "

Fan F: " With the Teams we have had we should have went to at least 4 Super Bowls under MM. We could have been the Dynasty that New England has become."

Fan G :" M.M. has been riding a HOFers coat tails for too long.Even Wayne Fonts could have won a Super Bowl with Aaron Rodgers."

Fan H: " McCarthy’s coaching in the very clutch moments of a game have been very questionable and his behavioral patterns are clearly recognized by football savvy fans and opposing coaches. Predictability is not a good thing. A coach of his experience not learning from his mistakes Is inexcusable. Not an easy job but with probably a top three QB of all time one title is very telling and Mike Murphy has to have a higher standard of performance other than making the playoffs. Two titles between Favre and Rodgers is an absolute joke. Enough said."

This one 'nails it' and Mike McCarthy needing to go:

Packer Fan 'obviously SMART': " MM definitely had input over who was going to be on the roster, especially at the QB position. He failed to ensure his position coaches were doing their jobs making sure the backups were ready (see def backfield). Therefore, he failed to accomplish his job as the head coach. When the personnel under you fail, it’s your fault. "

Final Comment and this Post:

Frankly too many Packer fans are tired of his worn out nonsense. It's not just some Packerrats and sick of MM's act. All the above comments look familiar because they clearly speak as we all have seen it go down. There's nothing about the above that should be startlingly new.

I'm a fair person:

When it gets to where it has; 'the writing is on the wall', and Mike McCarthy should gracefully decide this Season is his last as the Packers Head Coach.

[Pugger]

i grew up on those 70's and 80's teams

so, wrong

i just don't wake up every morning thinking the sun shines out of the ass of the packers organization. me and others can actually see some of the negatives in the organization

i believe you were one of the people i mentioned in another thread awhile back. who couldn't fathom how any of us could every want to get rid of such a great defensive coach like capers, or a great GM like TT. and then after it happened, you liked the moves, because the packers did it, and the packers can do no wrong

Huh? You must be confusing me with someone else. I was never that big of a Capers fan and was more than ready to let him go a couple of years ago. Keeping Capers around so damn long is one of my pet peeves when it comes to MM. Some of game day decisions drive me crazy too. Like I told Woody, I have no problem with going in a different direction with MM as long as his replacement is better.

[Pugger]

Overall? Yes. Today? No.

I think he has decided that the problems with the team and its less successful forays in the playoffs are mostly to do with player acquisition. And that spells trouble for me. He's made his share of mistakes in identifying players who can contribute.

The year of the great WR wipeout was probably not going to end in a Super Bowl trophy, though he still managed to blow that Cardinal playoff game by not going for 2.

And the year of the great CB plague was equally tough, but lots of talent deficient teams still play better pass D than his team did.

I could be wrong. We could still be reading the talent on the team to be more than it is. But I think he has underperformed of late.

He has under performed if the goal is winning a SB. But not many teams are gonna fire their HC after his team makes the playoffs 8 straight years. Its too bad Hundley was terrible but like I said in another thread - not making the playoffs last year might be a blessing in disguise. It finally forced MM to can Capers and other defensive coaches, Ted retired and we will now draft at a better spot than we have in eons. I want to see what will now happen with a new DC and a more aggressive GM before I give MM his pink slip..

[bobblehead]

for those who keep asking who we should replace MM with....Frank Reich. Mark my words, next former below average NFL QB to be a good HC.

[Pugger]

for those who keep asking who we should replace MM with....Frank Reich. Mark my words, next former below average NFL QB to be a good HC.

It will be interesting to see what he can do in Indy this year.

[wist43]

Overall? Yes. Today? No.

I think he has decided that the problems with the team and its less successful forays in the playoffs are mostly to do with player acquisition. And that spells trouble for me. He's made his share of mistakes in identifying players who can contribute.

The year of the great WR wipeout was probably not going to end in a Super Bowl trophy, though he still managed to blow that Cardinal playoff game by not going for 2.

And the year of the great CB plague was equally tough, but lots of talent deficient teams still play better pass D than his team did.

I could be wrong. We could still be reading the talent on the team to be more than it is. But I think he has underperformed of late.

I just don't get all this "fire MM" gorilla dust from all of you homers - especially you max.

For years I wanted to fire dunderdummy, and was highly critical of TT - and you guys wanted to hang me from the highest tree for treason!!!

Now you guys are on a roll?? Is that it?? Like Robespierre, you can't stop the bloodshed??

MM was the smallest part of the problem - and was consistently a net positive. He gets a lot of blame for being too conservative at times - worst case in point being the Seattle playoff game; but, in total the offense (his main responsibility) has been consistently playoff caliber, if not Superbowl caliber.

Dunderdummy was a horrible drag on the entire team... his ouster alone will make the whole team better.

[Zool]

I just don't get all this "fire MM" gorilla dust from all of you homers - especially you max.

For years I wanted to fire dunderdummy, and was highly critical of TT - and you guys wanted to hang me from the highest tree for treason!!!

Now you guys are on a roll?? Is that it?? Like Robespierre, you can't stop the bloodshed??

MM was the smallest part of the problem - and was consistently a net positive. He gets a lot of blame for being too conservative at times - worst case in point being the Seattle playoff game; but, in total the offense (his main responsibility) has been consistently playoff caliber, if not Superbowl caliber.

Dunderdummy was a horrible drag on the entire team... his ouster alone will make the whole team better.

Holy fuck have you been persecuted. You should probably head to the desert for a few decades of wandering.

[Pugger]

I just don't get all this "fire MM" gorilla dust from all of you homers - especially you max.

For years I wanted to fire dunderdummy, and was highly critical of TT - and you guys wanted to hang me from the highest tree for treason!!!

Now you guys are on a roll?? Is that it?? Like Robespierre, you can't stop the bloodshed??

MM was the smallest part of the problem - and was consistently a net positive. He gets a lot of blame for being too conservative at times - worst case in point being the Seattle playoff game; but, in total the offense (his main responsibility) has been consistently playoff caliber, if not Superbowl caliber.

Dunderdummy was a horrible drag on the entire team... his ouster alone will make the whole team better.

With Capers and TT gone they need another candidate to lambaste.

[pbmax]

I just don't get all this "fire MM" gorilla dust from all of you homers - especially you max.

For years I wanted to fire dunderdummy, and was highly critical of TT - and you guys wanted to hang me from the highest tree for treason!!!

Now you guys are on a roll?? Is that it?? Like Robespierre, you can't stop the bloodshed??

MM was the smallest part of the problem - and was consistently a net positive. He gets a lot of blame for being too conservative at times - worst case in point being the Seattle playoff game; but, in total the offense (his main responsibility) has been consistently playoff caliber, if not Superbowl caliber.

Dunderdummy was a horrible drag on the entire team... his ouster alone will make the whole team better.

You can't want to fire Capers and then claim McCarthy was the lesser problem. That makes zero sense, since the latter controlled the employment of the former.

I have the same basic complaints as before, when I was happy to keep both. I think the offense has been in two transition periods since the Super Bowl. One was after 2011 and the Kansas City man coverage with pass rush problem reared its head.

The second was 2013/14 and the transition to the no huddle and away from multiple personnel groups. It worked great in 2014. Since then not so much.

Third is performance in playoffs against good defenses.

All these things are tactical and strategic problems that with any functional org should be solvable. I think M3 is smart enough if pushed in that direction. As vince pointed out, even in his lesser areas, McCarthy is probably a Top 10 coach, and normally well inside the Top 5.

But then the GM left or was pushed out. M3 now reports to the President and had some kind of hand in selecting the GM. The watchword in FA is now aggressive rather than foolish. And M3's press conferences have given me the impression of a man that is completely comfortable with where his mind and plan is at on the football field, more success is around the corner if only he had more talent. This is the kind of thinking that produced Jeff Fisher.

So my concerns don't look closer to being resolved, they look more likely to stick around.

I conclude therefore its time to fire the coach and let the GM hire his own guy. The fact that M3 has only a one year extension is my hope that someone at 1265 sees the problem too.

[wist43]

You can't want to fire Capers and then claim McCarthy was the lesser problem. That makes zero sense, since the latter controlled the employment of the former.

Poppycock.

I've never wanted MM fired, and was very critical of him for keeping dunderdummy. That said, I have serious doubts as to whether getting rid of Capers was MM's call anyway.

MM is a top 10 offensive mind in the NFL - and you want to throw that away now b/c it took him too long to finally organize a palace coup and get rid of the real problems - TT and dunderdummy??

That makes zero sense.

And for my money, the way it all went down - that's exactly what the transition looks like, a long overdue, successful coup. I think Capers enjoyed the protection of TT, and MM finally had enough of it and went to Murphy.

[woodbuck27]

Poppycock.

I've never wanted MM fired, and was very critical of him for keeping dunderdummy. That said, I have serious doubts as to whether getting rid of Capers was MM's call anyway.

MM is a top 10 offensive mind in the NFL - and you want to throw that away now b/c it took him too long to finally organize a palace coup and get rid of the real problems - TT and dunderdummy??

That makes zero sense.

And for my money, the way it all went down - that's exactly what the transition looks like, a long overdue, successful coup. I think Capers enjoyed the protection of TT, and MM finally had enough of it and went to Murphy.

wist43: You may have it right there observing it all and MM. Lending credence to that observation we now see and MM reporting directly to The President and CEO of the Green Bay Packers Mark Murphy; rather than the New Packer GM. It could very well just be this:

Mike McCarthy not ever putting up with a 'plodder at GM' ever again; and that's clearly what former Packer GM Ted Thompson was.

TT defined the word 'frustration' and the term 'NOT on the job'.

It's a twist of analysis that would work for me and gaining some real respect for Packer HC Mike McCarthy; as in the case of viewing Ted Thompson; and God help that Man. Ted Thompson certainly has appeared (NOT well health wise) to Mae and I. We I fear will realize this as 'a TRUTH' after this Season. This time I don't want to be right but it doesn't appear like any good news and TT.

It took a long time to get there but Ted Thompson clearly wasn't the answer looking forward to the future as the GM for the Green Bay Packers.

Dom Capers !

Dom Capers was simply 'that worn out tire'.

[red]

so fat mike came out and made another chicken shit statement

even though he is the head coach, he has blamed capers for playing randall out of position. and said that if randall had not been traded, the new DC would have played him at safety where he belonged the whole time. taking all blame off himself if yet another packers DB goes on to be a star somewhere else. mike seems to be saying that he knew randall was being played out of position the whole time, but it was someone elses fault, as usual

the guy is the HEAD FUCKING COACH, if a guy is being played out of position, then YOU make the change, either with the player or the DC

https://www.acmepackingcompany.com/2018/3/27/17168920/packers-failure-maximize-damarious-randall-part-of-ugly-trend-for-green-bay

[Fritz]

I gotta go with Red's take on this. BabyMike is starting to sound more and more like my wife's fourteen-year-old grandson: it's never his fault.

[Deputy Nutz]

That's an absolutely ridiculous statement that would be as ridiculous if came out of the mouth from a high school head coach. I don't know if that was a shot at Capers or at Thompson for drafting a safety to play corner. Regardless McCarthy needs to take ownership of the situation, and some ownership of this entire team.

[Smidgeon]

That's an absolutely ridiculous statement that would be as ridiculous if came out of the mouth from a high school head coach. I don't know if that was a shot at Capers or at Thompson for drafting a safety to play corner. Regardless McCarthy needs to take ownership of the situation, and some ownership of this entire team.

I was on the fence on keeping M3, but this has devolved spectacularly. Time to go a new direction with a coach who takes responsibility. For a guy who took pride in never throwing other people under the bus, he's thrown that philosophy under the bus as well.

[Rutnstrut]

You all act like stubby's actions are a surprise. When the chips are down, he's mediocre at best. Pretty much any coach can do well when things go the right way. This season will be another of stubby floundering around, making excuses.

[pbmax]

Hold on a second. I am all for McCarthy's feet being held to the fire. He is having a grand old offseason for a coach of a 6-10 team. But his comments on Randall weren't quite this dire.

They reinforced that M3 was tired of his shtick, but they did not lay his positional problems at Capers feet.


“I think that’s his natural position. I think we all recognize that,” McCarthy said in Orlando at the NFL’s spring meeting. “Him playing as much corner for us was the best thing for our defense at the time ... Obviously, we’ve had issues outside with corners staying healthy the last two years and that’s a product of him playing out there, and he played it well when he was healthy, when he stays in the game.”

Now that is not the entire story. He did not get hybrid reps like Burnett and Jones did, at least not enough to that I noticed it in media coverage. So M3 saying they would have moved him this year is too little too late.

But it is more evidence that Thompson and Capers couldn't get on the same page personnel wise and M3 couldn't square that circle.

More troubling to me is that McCarthy did not act before he had a 6-10 season to create demand that he make moves.

Also note that this is the second time that M3 has mentioned Randall's unavailability for the last 2 games. It seems to be stuck in his craw.

[red]

Hold on a second. I am all for McCarthy's feet being held to the fire. He is having a grand old offseason for a coach of a 6-10 team. But his comments on Randall weren't quite this dire.

They reinforced that M3 was tired of his shtick, but they did not lay his positional problems at Capers feet.



Now that is not the entire story. He did not get hybrid reps like Burnett and Jones did, at least not enough to that I noticed it in media coverage. So M3 saying they would have moved him this year is too little too late.

But it is more evidence that Thompson and Capers couldn't get on the same page personnel wise and M3 couldn't square that circle.

More troubling to me is that McCarthy did not act before he had a 6-10 season to create demand that he make moves.

Also note that this is the second time that M3 has mentioned Randall's unavailability for the last 2 games. It seems to be stuck in his craw.

He’s making it sound like Randall was only playing cb because of all the injuries, which is complete BS

TT said on draft day that he would be a corner, and he played there ever since

Last preseason when Randall was not a starter, they didn’t move him to safety, they left him as a back up cb

[pbmax]

He’s making it sound like Randall was only playing cb because of all the injuries, which is complete BS

TT said on draft day that he would be a corner, and he played there ever since

Last preseason when Randall was not a starter, they didn’t move him to safety, they left him as a back up cb

Then we may finally have a case of what Nick Perry doubters have been looking for since he was drafted. And that could be the source for a lot of this move. More than attitude and McCarthy's tolerance level.

Best next question is could they have known in advance?

[hoosier]

Red's post brings up the philosophical question, who are the Green Bay Packers, really? Is it the GM? The ubiquitous owners? The president of the team? The players, who change every year? The coach?

A wise man once said, there is nothing permanent except change itself. There, I answered your question: the real Green Bay Packers is to be found in the waiver wire.

[hoosier]

I am all for McCarthy's feet being held to the fire. He is having a grand old offseason for a coach of a 6-10 team.

We wish he were the coach of a 6-10 team, because then the Packers would be drafting somewhere in the 9-12 range. 7-9.

[Joemailman]

He’s making it sound like Randall was only playing cb because of all the injuries, which is complete BS

TT said on draft day that he would be a corner, and he played there ever since

Last preseason when Randall was not a starter, they didn’t move him to safety, they left him as a back up cb

Randall was not a backup at the start of the season last year. He played on over 80% of the snap counts in 2 of the first 3 games. King barely played in week 1, and Rollins was basically benched by week 3. The Packers had HHCD and Burnett at safety, and had just drafted Jones. Randall was obviously needed more at CB than at safety.

[red]

Randall was not a backup at the start of the season last year. He played on over 80% of the snap counts in 2 of the first 3 games. King barely played in week 1, and Rollins was basically benched by week 3. The Packers had HHCD and Burnett at safety, and had just drafted Jones. Randall was obviously needed more at CB than at safety.

Training camp I think is when Randall was down the pecking order

Weren’t Rollins and gunter the starters at the opening of camp?

[Anti-Polar Bear]

A bit off topic, but reading Demovsky's blogs at ESPN, McCarthy seems to be throwing Todd under the bus.


"Free agency, we're going to be really good at it," McCarthy said, "because we should be."

"I'm excited about what Brian's doing in the personnel department; Jon-Eric Sullivan, Woj, those guys are pumping it," McCarthy said. "Just the conversations and bringing those guys in, even if we don't sign anybody, that's 15 players that have now gone, hey, you might want to take a look at Green Bay. "

:tup:

[Upnorth]

I think mm gets one more year. We are seeing a defence change with a new coordinator. The offence has been given new toys and a return of the guy who had us as the best offence in the league. If we don't at least make the nfc championship game I think he should be gone.
As to the question of who to replace him with, I don't know, but it is time.

I know it isn't a possibility, but I would love to see Andy Reid as our head coach.

[Joemailman]

I think mm gets one more year. We are seeing a defence change with a new coordinator. The offence has been given new toys and a return of the guy who had us as the best offence in the league. If we don't at least make the nfc championship game I think he should be gone.
As to the question of who to replace him with, I don't know, but it is time.

I know it isn't a possibility, but I would love to see Andy Reid as our head coach.

You would fire McCarthy and replace him with Andy Reid who is 11-13 in the playoffs? Andy's a good coach, but what makes him better than McCarthy?

[call_me_ishmael]

You would fire McCarthy and replace him with Andy Reid who is 11-13 in the playoffs? Andy's a good coach, but what makes him better than McCarthy?

I think he's probably a little bit better coach than MM based on the success he's had without a HOF QB. I don't have a strong opinion on it, though. MM is a great coach too.

[pbmax]

I have to wonder how much has actually changed.

The offer for Fuller was definitely new, but it went nowhere.

Wilkerson on a prove it deal that costs no draft pick compensation formula is precisely a Ted move.

Even Graham has precedence here, with Cook and Bennett. We'll see if everyone is as impressed with GB as M3 is.

[Joemailman]

I have to wonder how much has actually changed.

The offer for Fuller was definitely new, but it went nowhere.

Wilkerson on a prove it deal that costs no draft pick compensation formula is precisely a Ted move.

Even Graham has precedence here, with Cook and Bennett. We'll see if everyone is as impressed with GB as M3 is.

This feels different though to me. Outbidding New Orleans, which was probably Graham's first choice, is not something I would have expected from TT. If Gutey signs Jordan Matthews and Breaux (or another CB) in the next few weeks, he will have plugged glaring holes at 3 positions (CB/TE/WR) prior to the draft. That doesn't seem like TT to me.

[pbmax]

This feels different though to me. Outbidding New Orleans, which was probably Graham's first choice, is not something I would have expected from TT. If Gutey signs Jordan Matthews and Breaux (or another CB) in the next few weeks, he will have plugged glaring holes at 3 positions (CB/TE/WR) prior to the draft. That doesn't seem like TT to me.

Not sure Graham is much different. Reason they moved on Bennett and Peppers so fast was to lock them up and that means the offers were for market price in each case. Graham seems very much the same.

If they get another starter, they will be near his highpoint in Year 1. If they get two (CB, WR) then I'll consider it different.

But as of now, it looks similar with a lot more talking and rumor. And its very possible at this stage that the CB and WR signed will be backups or holdover (House).

[Bretsky]

GOOTERS has been in talks, I think, with many......I feel like an alien in free agency this year; I actually have to pay attention.

WI Journal had a nice piece today; MM joking with a free agent (Wilkenson) he has no idea where to start in recruiting a Free Agent cause it's a new thing in GB> Also noted they've had plenty of players in who have went away very very impressed with GB, the lock rooms and surroundings...ETC.

Now on a negative tone, I read an article a few weeks ago with a NFL Personnell guy noting Gooters is employing some of the same TT tactics he always tried in free agency. Pound the value of playing for a winner and playing with AROD for a discount as opposed to other teams. Not saying it's right or wrong....but obvious perceptions about TT came out of the article.

[pbmax]

Those are inevitable outcomes of having a highly paid veteran QB. If he was on Jared Goffs contract then agents would be hearing a different pitch.

In the end the budget will matter more than M3’s dinner patter. And more than Ted versus Brian.

[Bretsky]

Those are inevitable outcomes of having a highly paid veteran QB. If he was on Jared Goffs contract then agents would be hearing a different pitch.

In the end the budget will matter more than M3’s dinner patter. And more than Ted versus Brian.

With TT MM eats at home all of March
Whether they land them or not I think MM is getting better meals this March lol

[Patler]

If Gutey signs Jordan Matthews and Breaux (or another CB) in the next few weeks, he will have plugged glaring holes at 3 positions (CB/TE/WR) prior to the draft. That doesn't seem like TT to me.

How would that be different from what TT did last year, signing experienced FAs penciled in to start at TE, OG and CB, even going two deep with FAs at TE while also signing an experienced FA at DT for a primary backup role?

[Joemailman]

How would that be different from what TT did last year, signing experienced FAs penciled in to start at TE, OG and CB, even going two deep with FAs at TE while also signing an experienced FA at DT for a primary backup role?

I'm talking about overall. What TT did last year was seen as quite a departure for him from his normal way of doing things. What I see Gutey doing is a departure from the way TT dealt with FA for most of his years here.

[Fritz]

I get a little confused about the Randall situation. Is he gone because of a bad attitude? Is TT at fault for not playing Randall at what MM now says would've been his best position - safety? Or is that on Capers, or did he have no choice? There's little doubt - except for Wist - that Randall was very talented. But he was a head case, apparently, and what's funny, too, is that Ted took some flak for avoiding talent if it was accompanied by a ten-cent head. Then he did that with Randall, but was that a bad move? Hell, I don't know what to make of it all.

[Smidgeon]

I get a little confused about the Randall situation. Is he gone because of a bad attitude? Is TT at fault for not playing Randall at what MM now says would've been his best position - safety? Or is that on Capers, or did he have no choice? There's little doubt - except for Wist - that Randall was very talented. But he was a head case, apparently, and what's funny, too, is that Ted took some flak for avoiding talent if it was accompanied by a ten-cent head. Then he did that with Randall, but was that a bad move? Hell, I don't know what to make of it all.

They were all mistakes by TT, except for drafting Rodgers was common sense and being the GM of a Super Bowl winning team was dumb luck.

Get with it. He was clearly the worst GM in the history of football, professional or otherwise.

[bobblehead]

How would that be different from what TT did last year, signing experienced FAs penciled in to start at TE, OG and CB, even going two deep with FAs at TE while also signing an experienced FA at DT for a primary backup role?

Gooty is new hotness. TT was old busted. That is the difference, and generally the way things work in the world. Perception is what matters not results. He is tall, has good hair and a square jaw. Vote for him.

Not to bring politics into this, but Trump is governing just like Jeb Bush probably would have....but with twitter.

[pbmax]

You know, Ted signed a couple of FAs right of the gate too. Remember Adrian Klemm and Matt O'Dwyer?

[pbmax]

Gooty is new hotness. TT was old busted. That is the difference, and generally the way things work in the world. Perception is what matters not results. He is tall, has good hair and a square jaw. Vote for him.

Sounds like Packer fans are having a mid-life crisis.

[pbmax]

I get a little confused about the Randall situation. Is he gone because of a bad attitude? Is TT at fault for not playing Randall at what MM now says would've been his best position - safety? Or is that on Capers, or did he have no choice? There's little doubt - except for Wist - that Randall was very talented. But he was a head case, apparently, and what's funny, too, is that Ted took some flak for avoiding talent if it was accompanied by a ten-cent head. Then he did that with Randall, but was that a bad move? Hell, I don't know what to make of it all.

McCarthy is the one who mentioned the out of position and his expectation that he could succeed. So those are his public comments now.

Previously he took exception for Randall questioning holding starting players accountable. In retrospect (DR) sounds a lot like someone who got benched and sent to the locker room for screwing up and melting down (I assume he thinks the melting down is just him caring) but did not see similar screw-ups (Jones) treated the same way. M3 said Randall needs to clean his own house.

Apparently, at least 2 of Dorsey/WolfTheYounger/Highsmith, think he can succeed as a free safety. McCarthy may agree with them or this may be cover for a move he wanted made for other reasons. None of this means, of course, that Randall can't play corner.

Randall's Twitter comments might indicate he felt misplayed, or he may just be aligning himself with people who worry about Hyde all over again.

On the Packers side, I don't think they let a talent on a rookie contract go if Pettine could use him in the transition to a new defense. Not 100% on this, but I think scheme match would trump worrying about Randall's outbursts. Sitton wasn't too outspoken until they had a backup they liked.

So I think its a player they preferred to be rid of who wasn't a natural match for the scheme.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Todd signed a notable "first wave" free agent every 13-15 blue moons. He made an offseason trade every 18-29 blue moons. He never made an in-season trade, even though players like Beast Mode, Tony G and V-Dave were willing to don the Green and Gold. Todd would never hand out a $56 M offer sheet, nor would he sign a 35 year old free agent corner to a $5 M/yr deal.

Aristotle was a pupil of Plato. Yet, the two of them weren't exactly carbon copies of each other. Likewise, the German Shepherd is not a carbon copy of the Polar Bear. Anyone who believes so is gonna be disappointed.

Just wait til the season starts. If, Zeus-forbid, an injury plague hits the Packers corners again, we won't see Lenzy Pipkins in the # 1 corner role, a la Gunter. Gute forbids it.

Time will prove that Gute is the antithesis of Todd.

[Upnorth]

You would fire McCarthy and replace him with Andy Reid who is 11-13 in the playoffs? Andy's a good coach, but what makes him better than McCarthy?

Do you remember kc pre Reid? How about the offence in Philly? Yes I'll take Reid over anyone in the league besides hoody

[Patler]

I'm talking about overall. What TT did last year was seen as quite a departure for him from his normal way of doing things. What I see Gutey doing is a departure from the way TT dealt with FA for most of his years here.

But 2017 wasn't really that much of a departure for TT, and so far 2018 doesn't look much different, and won't even with a couple more signings.

More often than people will admit, TT signed 1 or 2 vets to start or be primary backups, and the overall number of signings tended to go up and down based on the number of vets who left, retired or were released. In 2017 they lost a lot of vet starters/primary backups, so TT was more active with signings, just as he had been in similar situations in the past.

So far, 2018 doesn't look to be much different.

If Gutekunst trades up in the draft, the press will probably identify that as a departure from the TT way too.

[Bretsky]

How would that be different from what TT did last year, signing experienced FAs penciled in to start at TE, OG and CB, even going two deep with FAs at TE while also signing an experienced FA at DT for a primary backup role?


Last yr was not the norm for TT IMO

[Bretsky]

I get a little confused about the Randall situation. Is he gone because of a bad attitude? Is TT at fault for not playing Randall at what MM now says would've been his best position - safety? Or is that on Capers, or did he have no choice? There's little doubt - except for Wist - that Randall was very talented. But he was a head case, apparently, and what's funny, too, is that Ted took some flak for avoiding talent if it was accompanied by a ten-cent head. Then he did that with Randall, but was that a bad move? Hell, I don't know what to make of it all.


FIRST OFF LET'S NOT SUGARCOAT

This was a shitty pick by Ted Thompson. His staff interviews players and assess character. He drafted Randall with the plan for Randall to be a CB. He had great talent IMO

But he was a douchebag, horrible teammate, and terrible inside the locker room.

The last part is why we traded ThanksTed's first round draft pick for a dam backup QB.

[Bretsky]

You know, Ted signed a couple of FAs right of the gate too. Remember Adrian Klemm and Matt O'Dwyer?


Are those the guys Patler cursed :))

[Joemailman]

If Gutekunst trades up in the draft, the press will probably identify that as a departure from the TT way too.

If he tries to move up in the 1st round from #14, that would be a departure. TT never did that. TT did move up in later rounds, with mixed results.

[beveaux1]

If he tries to move up in the 1st round from #14, that would be a departure. TT never did that. TT did move up in later rounds, with mixed results.

He moved up to take Matthews in the first round.

[Joemailman]

He moved up to take Matthews in the first round.

I know that. But he never traded his 1st round pick, plus other picks to move up higher in the 1st round. He traded 2nd and 3rd round picks to move back into the 1st round to take Matthews, after taking Raji with his own 1st round pick.

[woodbuck27]

If he tries to move up in the 1st round from #14, that would be a departure. TT never did that. TT did move up in later rounds, with mixed results.

if if if's...we need did's.

Goot spent a whole lot of CAP for a TE that isn't known to Block. Jimmy Graham is likely a Red Zone Specialist not an every down TE. Who's the other TE besides an aging (30 Year Old) Lance Kendricks that did little last year. His QUICK STATS (2017): REC = 18; YDS= 203; AVG =11.3 and TDS = 1


The Secondary is a mess. The WR position is now an unknown quality. The best Position was the DL and the Brass added there with Muhammad Wilkerson (I assume) praying he'll offer some improvement and Pass Rush. It almost appears as if the NO. 14 Round 1 Pick has to go on Small and Skilled now; or CB /WR.

Our RB's are in a Sophomore Year and that often spells not much improvement for some unknown reason.

There's a lot of need still on the Roster and in my view not a whole lot has been really done yet. Hanging onto CM III and Randall Cobb the impending HUGE Aaron Rodgers Contract is tying their hands.

I think the correct approach was to take this Season as step one in a Re-Build Plan. They needed a THREE YEAR PLAN. The error is not starting that THREE Year plan this season. There was little sense in signing Jimmy Graham and bringing in another man on the DL when that position is solid when your Defensive Backfield is deplorably weak. When you have need on the 'D' in the middle or @ LBer.

Yet here we are and (without a Killer Draft) going into another Season expecting Aaron Rodgers to be Mr. Everything.

Not a whole lot has changed. It's still the CONSERVATIVE doesn't win approach.

[Bretsky]

We improve at TE which was a glaring weakness last year; right now we took at step back at WR but I'll take Graham over Jordy and we'll still get a WR
We improved the talent on our DL and our pass rush
We sent a terrible attitude guy and a crap draft pick by TT packing for next to nothing and signed a vet who played pretty good last year in Williams
We still have one of the top 10 coaches in the National Football League and a GM who isn't done yet

This IMO is a year by year plan with the goal of every year to reach and win the Super Bowl

[woodbuck27]

We improve at TE which was a glaring weakness last year; right now we took at step back at WR but I'll take Graham over Jordy and we'll still get a WR
We improved the talent on our DL and our pass rush
We sent a terrible attitude guy and a crap draft pick by TT packing for next to nothing and signed a vet who played pretty good last year in Williams
We still have one of the top 10 coaches in the National Football League and a GM who isn't done yet

This IMO is a year by year plan with the goal of every year to reach and win the Super Bowl

Frankly 2018 will be a Season then to simply take stock.

I'm realistically not expecting a lot. I hope i'm surprised.

[pbmax]

Coaching performance, McCarthy doesn't even rate:

http://archive.advancedfootballanalytics.com/2010/04/measuring-coaching-performance.html

[Bretsky]

Coaching performance, McCarthy doesn't even rate:

http://archive.advancedfootballanalytics.com/2010/04/measuring-coaching-performance.html

I stopped reading about 30 seconds into the article when it stated Hoody Genius was below average

[mraynrand]

Coaching performance, McCarthy doesn't even rate:

http://archive.advancedfootballanalytics.com/2010/04/measuring-coaching-performance.html

WTF?

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4069/4474823531_a703ca6380_o.png

I can do three dimensional integration to determine Stubby's surplus coach value (SCV). His increase in SCV is proportional to Golden Corral meals x Loss differential x loss number or: St(SCV)= ∫ GCmxldxln

[pbmax]

April Fools

[red]

I have the sneaking suspicion that Brett wants and maybe needs an infusion of cash. I cannot believe how many copper band ads I see with him and Jerry Rice.

edit

what the fuck am i doing in this thread, its 7 months old

how did i get here?

someone come find me