Randall for Kizer

[Smidgeon]

What? And now there's a gaping hole at CB. If free agency doesn't deliver, the draft almost certainly had to in R1.

[woodbuck27]

It looks like things are now back to normal minus Posts this AM.

Comment on this trade:

It has to be that the Packers are very high on DeShone Kizer a second Round Draft Pick last year by Cleveland.Randall was a late First Round Pick but played at CB and the Packers are in big trouble or severely challenged in their Secondary..

http://www.nfl.com/player/deshonekizer/2557983/profile

Giving up a potential Starter for a Backup WB?

Was Damarious Randall a real distraction on the Field he was but did that carry over to the Packers Dressing Room? Was it a case of... "he's gone at all cost?"

I believe that Cleveland wins this trade up front and if their Coaching Staff can get into Randall's head they win for sure. I believe a lot of what we saw as BAD and Packers Defensive backs wasn't at all a fault of talent. I believe it was a matter of Scheme and/and Coaching.

This trade is a head scratcher unless CB Damarious Randall (again) simply had to go.

One plus is The Packers moved to the TOP of Rounds 4 and 5.

That means they have four (4) picks in the Top 100 plus one.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

A bad trade. Randall is no shutdown corner and he’s the mother of inconsistency, but the Packers got rid of their best corner for a carbon copy of Hundley.

If you’re gonna trade for a Brownie, trade for Flash.

[Smidgeon]

Browns moving Randall to safety. Now let's see if Capers misused another piece.

[red]

Browns moving Randall to safety. Now let's see if Capers misused another piece.

how is he gonna play safety when he's afraid of contact?

[Zool]

how is he gonna play safety when he's afraid of contact?

Everyone loved Sharper?

[Rastak]

how is he gonna play safety when he's afraid of contact?

More of a ballhawking safety with Peppers playing closer to the line is what I saw on twitter.

[pbmax]

More of a ballhawking safety with Peppers playing closer to the line is what I saw on twitter.

He does have ball skills. Tackling will be an issue, but his first steps are quick so he can close and he can make plays on the ball.

Little weird to say its his natural position as I have been reading, he played two years of safety (and a lot of slot coverage) in college.

[red]

More of a ballhawking safety with Peppers playing closer to the line is what I saw on twitter.

Browns are gonna give up a lot of long TDS next year

Did I forget to mention that he can’t cover worth a shit either?

[MadScientist]

Browns are gonna give up a lot of long TDS next year

Did I forget to mention that he can’t cover worth a shit either?

He used his speed to recover. That was dubious as a CB, but might actually work as a safety.

TT really fucked up in his picks that year. An athletic guy with without the experience and instincts to play the position and a guy who was too slow coming out. Hopefully Gute will listen to the right scouts this year, and also sign a guy who isn't shit.

[MadScientist]

A bad trade. Randall is no shutdown corner and he’s the mother of inconsistency, but the Packers got rid of their best corner for a carbon copy of Hundley.

Kizer can throw the ball more than 5 yards downfield, so he's no carbon copy of Hundley. Hundley was more of a carbon copy of Rich Campbell.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Kizer can throw the ball more than 5 yards downfield, so he's no carbon copy of Hundley. Hundley was more of a carbon copy of Rich Campbell.

Kizer completed only 53% of his passes last season. He has accuracy issues. Ditto, Hundley. Both are inaccurate, indecisive in the pocket, uninspiring and turnover prone. They actually look the same, too, physically.

Saw this while I was jogging past PB's packerrats twitter feed:

Gil Brandt
‏Verified account @Gil_Brandt

Funny how I'm reading Packers loved DeShone Kizer in last years draft. Half of Green Bay's front office is in Cleveland, which just dumped him for Tyrod Taylor.

It's possible Gutekunst wanted to draft Kizer and Todd overruled him. More likely, it was McCarthy who was in love with Kizer. With the new power structure in the Packers' front office, McCarthy likely pulled a power play and got Murphy to sign off on the Randall for Kizer trade.

McCarthy can't judge talent. Last time McCarthy was asked for his endorsement on personal matters, he picked Alex Smith over the Great Arm of Butte.

Randall for a Hundley-clone reeks incompetence if anyone asks me.

[Bossman641]

I hate this trade. We need at least 2 starting cb's now and have very little money to play with.

[wist43]

Very good trade for us... get rid of a lousy player who is also a malcontent in the locker room, and improve our draft position to boot.

Thank God we're finally rid of Randall!!!

[red]

I hate this trade. We need at least 2 starting cb's now and have very little money to play with.

We need ed 2 starting cbs with Randall

Just because he was our beast cb at the end of the season, doesn’t mean he was any good

We were terrible against the pass last year, and he was a big reason for it

[The Shadow]

I wish we could have thrown in a 6th round pick to the Browns if they agreed to take Hundley off our hands.

[pbmax]

Only the man with the best avatar knows what he is talking about.

Even if you think Randall needs to be improved upon, which is defensible, there is no one better currently on the roster. House is a FA.

[Joemailman]

Only the man with the best avatar knows what he is talking about.

Even if you think Randall needs to be improved upon, which is defensible, there is no one better currently on the roster. House is a FA.

I hope you're not referring to Red.

[red]

I hope you're not referring to Red.

Smokey is one sexy man

[pbmax]

I hope you're not referring to Red.

Only Bossman's avatar hits me where I live. Or hope to live.

Actually, wist's avatar does too, but no one wants to think about that.

[Bossman641]

We need ed 2 starting cbs with Randall

Just because he was our beast cb at the end of the season, doesn’t mean he was any good

We were terrible against the pass last year, and he was a big reason for it

There's no way this team is better with Kizer then they are Randall. Packers aren't in win-now mode but they are a lot closer to that then rebuild mode. If Kizer is playing significant minutes the season is shot. We just lost our best CB from last year. We could have kept Randall, signed a DB and drafted another and had him as the 3rd or at worst 4th best CB.

[wist43]

You guys, lol...

Your love for Randall will never die!! You'll never, ever admit he sucked putrid lemons or that he was a terrible pick.

We just gave him away for next to nothing, and that was a damn good deal for us - yet, Randall is still beloved by the PR homers.

You guys are sumthin ;)

[red]

You guys, lol...

Your love for Randall will never die!! You'll never, ever admit he sucked putrid lemons or that he was a terrible pick.

We just gave him away for next to nothing, and that was a damn good deal for us - yet, Randall is still beloved by the PR homers.

You guys are sumthin ;)

But but, he got ints?

Yep, and pretty much ever play that wasn’t an int he was either out of position, falling down, or watching his guy make a huge play.

The ints were good, the other 98% of the plays were pathetic

[Bossman641]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/damarious-randall/9463

PFF ranked him as the 81st best cb.... average. I'll take average from my 3rd or 4th best cb given the alternatives, but I'm sure they're just homers as well...

[Bretsky]

Anybody reasonable would take Randall as a Number 3 CB, which is where he belongs

But is anybody excited about what we got for Randall ?

If you want to unload him, why not just get a 3rd and stop dicking around with a backup QB who isn't accurate and draft swaps

[Teamcheez1]

Anybody reasonable would take Randall as a Number 3 CB, which is where he belongs

But is anybody excited about what we got for Randall ?

If you want to unload him, why not just get a 3rd and stop dicking around with a backup QB who isn't accurate and draft swaps

The best you would get for Randall is a 5th or 6th. They also would have had to pick up his option for next year at $8.6M. There was more to this trade besides attitude.

[pbmax]

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/damarious-randall/9463

PFF ranked him as the 81st best cb.... average. I'll take average from my 3rd or 4th best cb given the alternatives, but I'm sure they're just homers as well...

If nickel is the new base D, then 81st best CB is in the 3rd starter tier (96 total CBs need to start)

[KYPack]

A bad trade. Randall is no shutdown corner and he’s the mother of inconsistency, but the Packers got rid of their best corner for a carbon copy of Hundley.

If you’re gonna trade for a Brownie, trade for Flash.

The best possible endorsement of Kizer.

This goof wanted Tebow, Joey Harrington, Johnny Manziel and other stiffs.

If the worst judge of QB's thinks Kizer is no good, he must have great value.

[red]

If nickel is the new base D, then 81st best CB is in the 3rd starter tier (96 total CBs need to start)

and he would be in the bottom 50% of that group

[pbmax]

and he would be in the bottom 50% of that group

If you trust those numbers and he did play better as the year went along.

The problem still is trading a starter for a backup.

[wist43]

If nickel is the new base D, then 81st best CB is in the 3rd starter tier (96 total CBs need to start)

I don't think nickel is the new base... it was Capers base, morning, noon, night, and in the afterlife; but, not for the rest of the NFL I don't think.

The Packers percentage of nickel compared to the rest of the league was way, way out of wack - at least it was a couple of years ago, don't know what the numbers were last year. Of course it got so bad that MM had to step in and force dunderdummy to play the Elephant as his base... which lasted about 3 seconds - as long as it took for him to get his vaunted 2-4 back on the field!!!

Thank God - did I say - THANK GOD - that assfuck is out of town. I've been losing sleep wondering where to direct my rage now that that shithead is gone, lol...

[pbmax]

I don't think nickel is the new base... it was Capers base, morning, noon, night, and in the afterlife; but, not for the rest of the NFL I don't think.

The Packers percentage of nickel compared to the rest of the league was way, way out of wack - at least it was a couple of years ago, don't know what the numbers were last year. Of course it got so bad that MM had to step in and force dunderdummy to play the Elephant as his base... which lasted about 3 seconds - as long as it took for him to get his vaunted 2-4 back on the field!!!
.

You are not even close on this one. In 2011? Sure. Not even close the last few years.

[wist43]

You are not even close on this one. In 2011? Sure. Not even close the last few years.

Well, like I said I don't know what the percentages the last couple of years were... but, "not even close"?? Get real max... Capers default sleeping position was the 2-4. You can't deny that.

He's been ridden out of town on a rail, and you're still defending the guy, lol... Gonna start calling you Dom Max ;)

Wait a minute - you're not actually Dom Capers are you?? :)

[pbmax]

My hair is all my own.

2013: https://www.sbnation.com/2014/3/13/5503674/2014-nfl-draft-free-agency-defense-seahawks-49ers-nickel-dime


According to Pro Football Focus' game-tracking data, there were 34,661 total snaps during the 2013 season. On 45 percent of those snaps (15,697 times), teams utilized a nickel defensive personnel package, i.e. five defensive backs on the field. It's a departure from the long-standing paradigm that featured two cornerbacks and two safeties. A further 12 percent of snaps (4,034) featured a dime package, or personnel groupings with six defensive backs.

[pbmax]

CBS has a quote from MMQB with a slightly different number, but trend is the same.


Here's the thing, though: no matter which set your favorite team plays out of, you're picturing the wrong thing. That's because the nickel defense has taken over the NFL. Here, via Peter King at The MMQB, is the evidence.
The 2015 season was the seventh straight year for an increase in the number of defensive snaps in the NFL with five defensive back or more on the field. Per Pro Football Focus here is the percentage of plays in NFL games with five DBs or more on the field in every season since 2008:
2008: 43.4%
2009: 45.1%
2010: 48.8%
2011: 52.5%
2012: 54.4%
2013: 58.3%
2014: 60.3%
2015: 63.4%

http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?30323-Randall-for-Kizer&p=967550#post967550

[Joemailman]

Mike Pettine after being hired by Packers:


“The 3-4/4-3 debate I think has really fallen by the wayside in recent year. Ten years ago you played base defense 700 snaps a year, and the three wide receiver set was really limited to two-minute. In recent years, that’s really flipped… Even though we call it base, it really isn’t base any more.”

[Bossman641]

According to the Football Outsiders Almanac, NFL teams ran nickel on 51 percent of defensive snaps in 2015, while six-or-more-defensive-back looks accounted for another 14 percent. Teams ran their “base” defense on just 33 percent of their snaps last year, and that number — which was 48 percent just four seasons prior — is likely to continue to shrink.

https://www.theringer.com/2016/8/26/16041366/the-era-of-positionless-football-19c06f985480

[Zool]

All lies and here say. You need to be able to run in December and you play base defense 75% of the time.

[woodbuck27]

CBS has a quote from MMQB with a slightly different number, but trend is the same.



http://packerrats.com/showthread.php?30323-Randall-for-Kizer&p=967550#post967550

OK ....so the Packers need to draft speed guys now.

DB's and WR's. Speed not the plodders that Ted Thompson supplied.

[woodbuck27]

But but, he got ints?

Yep, and pretty much ever play that wasn’t an int he was either out of position, falling down, or watching his guy make a huge play.

The ints were good, the other 98% of the plays were pathetic

Did he ever get it that to defend a pass:

You needed to sometimes turn your head around while covering his man to locate the fricken ball? That rather than flapping his hands and arms like a wounded duck.

Damarious Randall was, and let's give him the benefit of the doubt here; either thick headed or horribly coached.

In ice hockey you can be the best Guy and putting the puck in the net; but if you skate with your head down and looking at the puck all the time ! Your going to get knocked out. Your going to get concussed.

Before that your Coaches will agree to give you 'the Mercy Rule' and cut your ass.

Damarious Randall needed to be coached to locate the ball, and if he failed to do so; get benched until he did. Obviously that common sense approach wasn't anything associated with playing CB and coaching in Green Bay.

[wist43]

Instead of saying 3-4, or 4-3, or nickel being base... I think the way to look at it is that "situational" is "base". Josh Jones is a hybrid guy; Jones in Atlanta; etc...

Smallish LB's, big safeties, odd fronts... I don't think there is a real base anymore - except for Capers, who a couple of years ago ran that nauseating 2-4 that max loved so much a sickeningly ineffective 80% of the time.

Max, let it go... your heroes (dunderdummy and Randall) have finally been booted out of Green Bay...

And the peasants rejoiced... :wave:

[woodbuck27]

Instead of saying 3-4, or 4-3, or nickel being base... I think the way to look at it is that "situational" is "base". Josh Jones is a hybrid guy; Jones in Atlanta; etc...

Smallish LB's, big safeties, odd fronts... I don't think there is a real base anymore - except for Capers, who a couple of years ago ran that nauseating 2-4 that max loved so much a sickeningly ineffective 80% of the time.

Max, let it go... your heroes (dunderdummy and Randall) have finally been booted out of Green Bay...

And the peasants rejoiced... :wave:

DITTO Big Time DITTO !

:wave:

[Bossman641]

Instead of saying 3-4, or 4-3, or nickel being base... I think the way to look at it is that "situational" is "base". Josh Jones is a hybrid guy; Jones in Atlanta; etc...

Smallish LB's, big safeties, odd fronts... I don't think there is a real base anymore - except for Capers, who a couple of years ago ran that nauseating 2-4 that max loved so much a sickeningly ineffective 80% of the time.

Max, let it go... your heroes (dunderdummy and Randall) have finally been booted out of Green Bay...

And the peasants rejoiced... :wave:

Isnt that what people have been trying to convince you of for years while you lamented capers not playing more 3-4?

[wist43]

Isnt that what people have been trying to convince you of for years while you lamented capers not playing more 3-4?

It's situational... my complaint in running situations, was that Capers would still field his 2-4, and we'd get run over.

Beyond that, Capers misused the players he had. Given our roster, he should have been playing a 3-3. And don't get me started on abandoning the middle of the field altogether.

Sooooooooooooooooooooo glad he's gone!!!!

[mraynrand]

It's situational... my complaint in running situations, was that Capers would still field his 2-4, and we'd get run over.

Beyond that, Capers misused the players he had. Given our roster, he should have been playing a 3-3. And don't get me started on abandoning the middle of the field altogether.

Sooooooooooooooooooooo glad he's gone!!!!

Aren't you tired of this yet? When (specifically) Perry was out there, the 3-3 and 2-4 were interchangeable, depending on down and distance.

[wist43]

Aren't you tired of this yet? When (specifically) Perry was out there, the 3-3 and 2-4 were interchangeable, depending on down and distance.

Oy vey, lol...

Well, thankfully it's in our rearview mirror now... you guys lost your hero in Capers. He was fired b/c he sucked, and your years of defending him won't bring him back.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

In defense of Capers, the "Psycho" was awesome.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Anybody reasonable would take Randall as a Number 3 CB, which is where he belongs

But is anybody excited about what we got for Randall ?

If you want to unload him, why not just get a 3rd and stop dicking around with a backup QB who isn't accurate and draft swaps

+1

[mraynrand]

Oy vey, lol...

Well, thankfully it's in our rearview mirror now... you guys lost your hero in Capers. He was fired b/c he sucked, and your years of defending him won't bring him back.

bad take. Incorrect, and doesn't address the point.