View Full Version : Uhhh, Kyle Fuller?
denverYooper
03-16-2018, 03:54 PM
Brad Biggs
Verified account @BradBiggs
4m4 minutes ago
#Packers have signed #Bears CB Kyle Fuller to an offer sheet. Chicago placed transition tag ($12.9067 million on Fuller). So things will get interesting in the NFC North as the rivals compete for the former first-round draft pick.
denverYooper
03-16-2018, 03:55 PM
Ian Rapoport
Verified account @RapSheet
3m3 minutes ago
Ian Rapoport Retweeted Brad Biggs
This is true. The #Bears have planned to match any offer and keep Fuller. The structure will be interesting.
Adam Schefter
Verified account @AdamSchefter
38s38 seconds ago
Bears now have five days to match offer sheet that free-agent CB Kyle Fuller signed with Packers.
Rob Demovsky
Verified account @RobDemovsky
2m2 minutes ago
Rob Demovsky Retweeted Brad Biggs
This is big. Even if the Packers don’t land him, they could have driven up the price for their rival.
time to drive up the price
denverYooper
03-16-2018, 03:59 PM
Now this one strikes me as a truly aggressive FA move by the new FO.
hoosier
03-16-2018, 03:59 PM
Are the old poison pill clauses still kosher?
Are the old poison pill clauses still kosher?
no, i think they got rid of those a long time ago
you could offer something like 15 million or more a year for 5 years. make the bears pay a premium to keep him
mraynrand
03-16-2018, 04:04 PM
This is like poking Chicago in the eye. Fuller should appreciate that (even though he's not related to Corey Fuller, the db from Minnesota, but Corey Fuller, his brother the WR). How's that for some misleading NFL history?
woodbuck27
03-16-2018, 04:07 PM
http://www.nfl.com/player/kylefuller/2543681/profile
Kyle Fuller #23 DB ...Chicago Bears | Official Team Site
http://www.espn.com/nfl/player/_/id/16715/kyle-fuller
http://walterfootball.com/freeagents2018CB.php
image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/bearsb_logo.gif
Kyle Fuller, CB, Bears. Age: 26.
image: http://walterfootball.com/images/fball/star.gif
Transition tagged by Bears
Ranked at NO. 8 here: Kyle Fuller has frustrated Bears fans, playing well at times, but struggling mightily in many games. Chicago understandably declined his fifth-year option, but Fuller finally put it together in 2017 with a strong season. The former first-round pick is just 26 (in February) and can still continue to improve.
General Wiki Info:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kyle_Fuller
hoosier
03-16-2018, 04:07 PM
Unless Gute really thinks he can get Fuller, I don't understand this move. It may be a poke in the eye to Chicago, but it also means that GB cannot offer another FA CB for the next five days. So it's basically either Fuller or you're looking at Tramon Williams, bottom of the barrel talent.
hoosier
03-16-2018, 04:09 PM
This is like poking Chicago in the eye. Fuller should appreciate that (even though he's not related to Corey Fuller, the db from Minnesota, but Corey Fuller, his brother the WR). How's that for some misleading NFL history?
Don't forget the tie that binds these Fullers from different mothers: old Frankie Bag o Donuts, former eye-poked center and now "color commentator" on Packer radio.
mraynrand
03-16-2018, 04:09 PM
Unless Gute really thinks he can get Fuller, I don't understand this move. It may be a poke in the eye to Chicago, but it also means that GB cannot offer another FA CB for the next five days. So it's basically either Fuller or you're looking at Tramon Williams, bottom of the barrel talent.
watch Chicago lose him, sign Melvin and Melvin turns out the better corner. Nah, this is Chicago we're talking about here....
denverYooper
03-16-2018, 04:19 PM
Unless Gute really thinks he can get Fuller, I don't understand this move. It may be a poke in the eye to Chicago, but it also means that GB cannot offer another FA CB for the next five days. So it's basically either Fuller or you're looking at Tramon Williams, bottom of the barrel talent.
Maybe they figure Breeland will be available for a while...
mraynrand
03-16-2018, 04:20 PM
Maybe they figure Breeland will be available for a while...
he's a grafty defensive back.
woodbuck27
03-16-2018, 04:26 PM
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
20m20 minutes ago
"From what I understand, this is the second attempt by a team to secure Kyle Fuller with an offer sheet. One wasn’t accepted. The #Packers’ was. The #Bears have 5 days to match. Chicago placed transition tag (*** $12.9067 million on Fuller)
*** That's a lot of Money.
Comment woodbuck27:
I don't like this plan Stan.
denverYooper
03-16-2018, 04:33 PM
Ian Rapoport @RapSheet
20m20 minutes ago
"From what I understand, this is the second attempt by a team to secure Kyle Fuller with an offer sheet. One wasn’t accepted. The #Packers’ was. The #Bears have 5 days to match. Chicago placed transition tag (*** $12.9067 million on Fuller)
*** That's a lot of Money.
Comment woodbuck27:
I don't like this plan Stan.
The Packers don't have to offer him $12.9 mil for 1 year. That is just the amount the Bears will pay if he didn't get a more appealing offer.
Very interesting. Fuller was the guy I thought of right away as a perfect match for GB. Then he got that tag put on him so I doubted. Love it. I'd assume that unless some contracts were redone and or cut, they would be done with signing free agents for the year. So who do they cut? My brother in law thinks they'd cut Bulaga & Cobb. I just don't know how. Cobb can't be cut, who do we have? I understand Bulaga has been hurt, and they have hope in Murphy & Spriggs, but do you do that? Looks like Bulaga is on the train to health again, so all seems well there for now. Very interesting. You'd think Gute has created a contract/offer sheet intelligently enough that the Bears won't match. Or if you know they will match, why go through this? Just to screw them? This is kind of fun though!
The Packers don't have to offer him $12.9 mil for 1 year. That is just the amount the Bears will pay if he didn't get a more appealing offer.
According to the radio just now, the Packers offer must include year 1 being at least $12.9 mil. After that it doesn't matter.
*edit* - TV just explained it as well. Offer sheet must include transition tag price. He MUST make $12.9 mil this year.
The Shadow
03-16-2018, 04:40 PM
Do you remember how Rodgers unmercifully targeted Fuller druring a game a season or so ago?
mraynrand
03-16-2018, 04:41 PM
Are the old poison pill clauses still kosher?
Tune into NFLN "Good Morning Football" and see what Nate Burleson has to say about it.
mraynrand
03-16-2018, 04:42 PM
According to the radio just now, the Packers offer must include year 1 being at least $12.9 mil. After that it doesn't matter.
*edit* - TV just explained it as well. Offer sheet must include transition tag price. He MUST make $12.9 mil this year.
right. and Chicago has to match or lose with no compensation.
Guiness
03-16-2018, 04:43 PM
Very interesting. Fuller was the guy I thought of right away as a perfect match for GB. Then he got that tag put on him so I doubted. Love it. I'd assume that unless some contracts were redone and or cut, they would be done with signing free agents for the year. So who do they cut? My brother in law thinks they'd cut Bulaga & Cobb. I just don't know how. Cobb can't be cut, who do we have? I understand Bulaga has been hurt, and they have hope in Murphy & Spriggs, but do you do that? Looks like Bulaga is on the train to health again, so all seems well there for now. Very interesting. You'd think Gute has created a contract/offer sheet intelligently enough that the Bears won't match. Or if you know they will match, why go through this? Just to screw them? This is kind of fun though!
What is the cap situation really? pbmax, bump your cap analysis post to the top!
Bulaga is interesting as a cut - according to overthecap they could save up to $6.3M by designating him a June 1st cut. I could see them asking him to renegotiate.
I am curious to see what this offer sheet looks like.
run pMc
03-16-2018, 04:43 PM
Hmm...not sure about this. Does GB give up a R1 pick if they sign him, or is that just for franchise tags?
mraynrand
03-16-2018, 04:46 PM
Very interesting. Fuller was the guy I thought of right away as a perfect match for GB. Then he got that tag put on him so I doubted. Love it. I'd assume that unless some contracts were redone and or cut, they would be done with signing free agents for the year. So who do they cut? My brother in law thinks they'd cut Bulaga & Cobb. I just don't know how. Cobb can't be cut, who do we have? I understand Bulaga has been hurt, and they have hope in Murphy & Spriggs, but do you do that? Looks like Bulaga is on the train to health again, so all seems well there for now. Very interesting. You'd think Gute has created a contract/offer sheet intelligently enough that the Bears won't match. Or if you know they will match, why go through this? Just to screw them? This is kind of fun though!
Indeed. Who they have to cut would depend on how the contract is structured; I would assume they can spread out some $$ over several years. However, I've lost track of how much cap space they have right now...
mraynrand
03-16-2018, 04:46 PM
Hmm...not sure about this. Does GB give up a R1 pick if they sign him, or is that just for franchise tags?
no compensation for transitional tag
Hmm...not sure about this. Does GB give up a R1 pick if they sign him, or is that just for franchise tags?
packers wouldn't have to give up anything if he signs with us
I haven't known what to do with myself the past week. I'm not used to the packers #1, making contact with players. #2, being in the news. #3, signing people. I'm so confused.
Smidgeon
03-16-2018, 04:55 PM
Melvin to Raiders
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/16/raiders-add-rashaan-melvin-to-secondary/
mraynrand
03-16-2018, 04:56 PM
Melvin to Raiders
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/16/raiders-add-rashaan-melvin-to-secondary/
thought he would get more than that...
mraynrand
03-16-2018, 04:57 PM
I haven't known what to do with myself the past week. I'm not used to the packers #1, making contact with players. #2, being in the news. #3, signing people. I'm so confused.
true. Usually don't have to think about Packers at all during the offseason until day two of the draft.
MadScientist
03-16-2018, 05:05 PM
thought he would get more than that...
I would have liked the Packers to be in on him at that price, but I'm guessing they wouldn't want a 1-year deal and Melvin wants to bet on himself doing well and getting a really big contract.
The Fuller offer sheet is a risk, since they can't try to get honey badger for five days, and the Bears will still probably match it.
Gute is not TT.
denverYooper
03-16-2018, 05:07 PM
According to the radio just now, the Packers offer must include year 1 being at least $12.9 mil. After that it doesn't matter.
*edit* - TV just explained it as well. Offer sheet must include transition tag price. He MUST make $12.9 mil this year.
OK, interesting. My quick internet research didn't have much detail on that piece.
hoosier
03-16-2018, 05:12 PM
Maybe they figure Breeland will be available for a while...
Cooling his heels as it were.
HarveyWallbangers
03-16-2018, 05:18 PM
I'm actually a pretty big fan of Fuller, but I'd think the Bears will match the offer. I was high on him coming out in 2014. He looked really good as a rookie. He had a dreadful sophomore year, but he has rebounded. I didn't see him much this year, but PFF gave him a solid #1 corner grade. I don't totally trust PFF, but it appears his career is back on the trajectory it was after his rookie year.
Bretsky
03-16-2018, 06:14 PM
He's really good; awesome try to GB and nice to see GB thinking outside the box
But the Bears will match
Sparkey
03-16-2018, 07:08 PM
Bears matched the offer.
Joemailman
03-16-2018, 07:13 PM
Bears matched the offer.
Bears did the Packers a favor by matching so soon. They could have taken up to 5 days. This way Packers know they're not getting Fuller, so they can focus on other options.
pbmax
03-16-2018, 07:29 PM
Well, that was fun while it lasted. Only $18 mil guaranteed?
I am kinda surprised Fuller signed it. But nice bump for him.
pbmax
03-16-2018, 07:30 PM
Now this one strikes me as a truly aggressive FA move by the new FO.
It would have been aggressive if they Bears had taken more than 2 hours to match it :D
pbmax
03-16-2018, 07:33 PM
According to the radio just now, the Packers offer must include year 1 being at least $12.9 mil. After that it doesn't matter.
*edit* - TV just explained it as well. Offer sheet must include transition tag price. He MUST make $12.9 mil this year.
I bet the cap number doesn't have to be $12.9, just the cash. So you pay him big bonus, so $12 mil is guaranteed and he gets $3 mil guaranteed in the next two years, either base salary or some kinda deferred bonus.
pbmax
03-16-2018, 07:33 PM
Melvin to Raiders
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/03/16/raiders-add-rashaan-melvin-to-secondary/
Probably explains the offer sheet to Fuller.
pbmax
03-16-2018, 07:53 PM
He's really good; awesome try to GB and nice to see GB thinking outside the box
But the Bears will match
Where are we on the turtle meter? Is the turtle right side up, upside down or somewhere in between?
Joemailman
03-16-2018, 08:16 PM
4 years, 56 million, 18 million guaranteed for Fuller.
the most the bears offered for fuller before the tag was 10 million a year, so that little move just cost the bear 4 million per yar
nice
Bretsky
03-16-2018, 09:36 PM
the most the bears offered for fuller before the tag was 10 million a year, so that little move just cost the bear 4 million per yar
nice
Glad if we drove the price upward
But I'm a bit worried about our CB"s
Vincenzo
03-17-2018, 12:57 AM
Glad if we drove the price upward
But I'm a bit worried about our CB"s
No kidding!
pbmax
03-17-2018, 07:46 AM
Glad if we drove the price upward
But I'm a bit worried about our CB"s
Don't worry, Kizer will help.
Bears match the Packers offer per the Chicago Tribune. Fuller to stay a Bear:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-bears-kyle-fuller-packers-offer-sheet-20180316-story.html
mraynrand
03-17-2018, 09:09 AM
Don't worry, Kizer will help.
He's pretty talented at throwing the ball to DBs. They will get a lot of INT practice from Kizer.
woodbuck27
03-17-2018, 09:58 AM
Bears match the Packers offer per the Chicago Tribune. Fuller to stay a Bear:
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-spt-bears-kyle-fuller-packers-offer-sheet-20180316-story.html
4-year, $56 million deal or averaged at $14 million /Year.
People here are concerned about the cost to the CAP and the upcoming signing of Aaron Rodgers.
Talk to the Packer BRASS and that !
pbmax
03-17-2018, 11:05 AM
Well, Phase 1 FA has developed a problem. https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/03/16/packers-sign-bears-cornerback-kyle-fuller-offer-sheet/433543002/
The Packers have watched as cornerback after cornerback has flown off the shelves in free agency, perhaps taken by surprise at the amount of money being thrown at the position. Among the corners who signed deals in the first two days of free agency were Johnson (Jets), Butler (Titans), Patrick Robinson (Saints), Morris Claiborne (Jets), T.J. Carrie (Browns) and Aaron Colvin (Texans).
One of the cornerbacks in whom the Packers had expressed interest, Indianapolis' Rashaad Melvin, was set to sign Friday with the Oakland Raiders.
Some of the cornerbacks that remain on the market are Buffalo's E.J. Gaines, Cincinnati's Adam "Pacman" Jones and the New York Giants' Ross Cockrell. But the Packers' best option right now is probably to re-sign veteran Davon House and perhaps bring back former starter Tramon Williams.
At least we got a backup QB.
pbmax
03-17-2018, 11:11 AM
Here is the hybrid Ron Wolf/Mike Ditka approach to the CB problem.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DYff62sXUAggbP5.jpg:large
mraynrand
03-17-2018, 12:10 PM
^^^^ Best Player Available!!
mraynrand
03-17-2018, 12:10 PM
Don't cry about Fuller - he always wets the bed anyway.
http://www.snakkle.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/Kiernan-CulkinGC.jpg
Bretsky
03-18-2018, 09:52 PM
Don't worry, Kizer will help.
Ouch; that was painful.
Kizer fits in perfectly through. We got a backup QB who has accuracy issues. Now we have two !! lol
wist43
03-18-2018, 10:25 PM
I'd love it if James fell to us...
Not thrilled with the CB's I've looked at so far... Isaiah Oliver is at the top of my wish list so far. If he ran a little faster he'd likely be a top 10 pick. As it is, he ran a 4.51 at the combine. His overall skills are very good.
pbmax
03-19-2018, 08:57 AM
I had written that the Bears did the Packers a favor by matching the offer sheet so fast, or the Packers cap space could have been held hostage for up to five days.
Patler had asked if it wasn't still the case that the team making an offer sheet (Packers on Fuller) did not need the cap space until the deadline.
No one has stated it explicitly, but I think this Dougherty article hints at the answer: http://www.packersnews.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/dougherty/2018/03/17/dougherty-packers-pickup-jimmy-graham-leaves-questions/433523002/
The Bears quickly matched so the Packers’ work was for naught. All they did was negotiate the contract for Chicago, and really they're lucky the Bears didn't keep them in limbo for the allowed five days. The Packers still have a couple of big holes at their top three cornerback spots, and not much left in free agency to pick over.
Doing a lot of inferring here, but limbo would seem to imply the Packers don't have to have the designated cap space immediately as Patler indicated. But that whatever plan you need to execute has to be ready for those five days. Effectively taking those moves and space and placing them on hold even if its unofficial. You have to act as though that money was spent and those moves might be made.
Unless its the Bears and they match so fast you don't even have time to prep a news release.
woodbuck27
03-19-2018, 09:54 AM
Well, Phase 1 FA has developed a problem. https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/nfl/packers/2018/03/16/packers-sign-bears-cornerback-kyle-fuller-offer-sheet/433543002/
At least we got a backup QB.
:-)
He won't develop until the Packers get someone in as a legitimate competition.
woodbuck27
03-19-2018, 10:07 AM
I'd love it if James fell to us...
Not thrilled with the CB's I've looked at so far... Isaiah Oliver is at the top of my wish list so far. If he ran a little faster he'd likely be a top 10 pick. As it is, he ran a 4.51 at the combine. His overall skills are very good.
If the Packers go CB at NO. 14 it better be the absolute BEST Prospect falling to them; otherwise I feel it has to be a choice between EDGE's Harold Landry and Marcus Davenport. A lot of that will come down to the interviews and maturity. Landry looks better to me on Tape but either EDGE Rusher that may be chosen must be a starter. Can that EDGE handle NFL Caliber big and strong OT's?
On Tape Marcus Davenport looked a tad challenged in that Department.
Back to the smaller and speed Guys and the huge issues I see at CB and featured Wide Receiver. We need that Guy that can take the heat off of Davante Adams.
This isn't a Sprint now but a Middle Distance Race and getting to another Super Bowl, with all the pieces legitimately in place. We are behind when you consider the Packers lost two first round Draft Picks in the most recent Seasons; and those Guys are doing just fine out of the Packer Coaching System.
It's now the time to look forward not back. To re-build before it's too late and Aaron Rodgers Here's where Aaron Rodgers and His REAL toughness Vs breakabilty is going to come into clear view.
GO PACK GO !
pbmax
03-24-2018, 04:06 PM
Tom Silverstein @TomSilverstein
The #Packers offer sheet to CB Kyle Fuller that the #Bears matched, has a 2018 cap number of $6.5 million. It jumps to $13.5M in '19, $17.5M in '20 and $18.5M in '21. First-year cap made it easy for the #Bears to match. They'll pay $20M to him in the first year.
RashanGary
03-24-2018, 04:18 PM
I'd love it if James fell to us...
Not thrilled with the CB's I've looked at so far... Isaiah Oliver is at the top of my wish list so far. If he ran a little faster he'd likely be a top 10 pick. As it is, he ran a 4.51 at the combine. His overall skills are very good.
4.51 is good. People over exaggerate that 40 number. 4.59 maybe not, but 4.51 is plenty fast.
4.51 is good. People over exaggerate that 40 number. 4.59 maybe not, but 4.51 is plenty fast.
yeah pretty much
heres a video showing miles garrett, chubb, and bosa.
garrett runs a 4.64 and bosa a 4.86, huge difference in times, but as you can see, the difference is only 2 yards, or about 1 step. its maore about what you do with that speed difference
the difference between a 4.4 and 4.5 is almost nothing, a difference between a 4.3 and a 4.8 is something
wist43
03-24-2018, 06:58 PM
40 times don't matter for OL/DL... short area burst and strength are much more important.
For corners and wrs though?? Yes the 40 time can be telling. "A step" is all it takes for a wr to beat a CB. If a corner lacks that top gear, he has to find other ways to cover for that. He better be technique-perfect, i.e his footwork, jam, sideline press, ball awareness, etc.
pbmax
03-24-2018, 06:58 PM
There are other numbers that help tell more of the story. If you are quick and can change direction, if your first 10 yards are faster than others, then you can get away with 2 yards less of speed.
But what you cannot do is stack slower on top of heavy footed.
call_me_ishmael
03-24-2018, 07:39 PM
For a corner, I only want a number in the 4.4 or less, 6'0" or greater, and 200 or greater. Generally I want 4.45 or less. Preferably 4.35 or so.
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