Official 2019 Draft Thread

[call_me_ishmael]

Welcome to the official thread. Suck it Red.

Anyway, here's a good list of top prospects. The edge rushers look significantly better next year. Rashan Gary and Nick Bosa are better prospects then any of the rushers this year, at least as far as reputation goes.

I am underwhelmed by the quarterback names. Nobody like Andy Luck who people knew was the truth from early in his college career. I, a layman who doesn't follow football closely, have never heard of any of them, so no prodigies or chosen ones there. Since it appears to be a weak QB class, I think you use the two first rounders to climb up and get yourself a little Nicky Bosa action.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/01/2019-nfl-draft-big-board-ryan-finley-ed-oliver-rashan-gary-nick-bosa-drew-lock-aj-brown

[woodbuck27]

Welcome to the official thread. Suck it Red.

Anyway, here's a good list of top prospects. The edge rushers look significantly better next year. Rashan Gary and Nick Bosa are better prospects then any of the rushers this year, at least as far as reputation goes.

I am underwhelmed by the quarterback names. Nobody like Andy Luck who people knew was the truth from early in his college career. I, a layman who doesn't follow football closely, have never heard of any of them, so no prodigies or chosen ones there. Since it appears to be a weak QB class, I think you use the two first rounders to climb up and get yourself a little Nicky Bosa action.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/01/2019-nfl-draft-big-board-ryan-finley-ed-oliver-rashan-gary-nick-bosa-drew-lock-aj-brown

What's there at Cornerback !?

I have to finally win the Draft Contest. :glug:

[run pMc]

Welcome to the official thread. Suck it Red.

Anyway, here's a good list of top prospects. The edge rushers look significantly better next year. Rashan Gary and Nick Bosa are better prospects then any of the rushers this year, at least as far as reputation goes.

I am underwhelmed by the quarterback names. Nobody like Andy Luck who people knew was the truth from early in his college career. I, a layman who doesn't follow football closely, have never heard of any of them, so no prodigies or chosen ones there. Since it appears to be a weak QB class, I think you use the two first rounders to climb up and get yourself a little Nicky Bosa action.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/05/01/2019-nfl-draft-big-board-ryan-finley-ed-oliver-rashan-gary-nick-bosa-drew-lock-aj-brown

The so-called experts have said next year's draft is much better in terms of talent/depth for pass rushers; so having 2 R1's definitely gives them a chance to overhaul things there.

[red]

We’re not suppose to start this thread until the season looks lost

There does look to be a couple of really nice pass rushers, but they should both be gone way before we pick

And after those couple of guys, there doesn’t look like much right now. Of course someone could come out of nowhere

[mraynrand]

We’re not suppose to start this thread until the season looks lost

and?

[Bretsky]

Todd McShay posted a mock draft today for 2019 but gotta be a dam insider !

[pbmax]

and?

What other conclusion can be drawn after not drafting an OLB to put in the pass rush pipeline?

[call_me_ishmael]

Todd McShay posted a mock draft today for 2019 but gotta be a dam insider !


ope the formatting works, my apologies for any mistakes!
1. Buffalo Bills Ed Oliver, DT, Houston*
A force on the inside, Oliver (listed at 6-3, 290) is immensely talented. He has a ridiculous 38.5 tackles for loss and 10.5 sacks in his first two seasons.
2. Chicago Bears Nick Bosa, DE, Ohio State*
Yes, he is the younger brother of Chargers DE Joey Bosa. And yes, he can also rush the passer and stop the run in his own right (8.5 sacks, 16 TFL last season).
3. New York Giants Rashan Gary, DE, Michigan*
Noticing a pattern? Gary is listed at 6-foot-5, 281 pounds, and versatile, so he can fit at DE or DT depending on the scheme. He racked up 5.5 sacks last season after 0.5 his freshman season.
Note: If the Giants are actually 5-11 (as the Football Outsiders sim suggests) and picking No. 3 overall, I'd give them a QB since I'd have to assume it's time to move on from Eli Manning. But I'm not sold on any of these QBs at this point in the process.
4. New York Jets Greg Little, OT, Mississippi*
Listed at 6-foot-6, 325 pounds, he's your classic blindside protector.
5. Tampa Bay Buccaneers Trey Adams, OT, Washington*
Adams tore his ACL in October 2017, missed the rest of the season and decided to go back to school as a result.
6. Indianapolis Colts Andraez 'Greedy' Williams, CB, LSU*
A big corner (listed at 6-foot-2, 183 pounds), Greedy led the SEC with six interceptions in his freshman season.
7. Denver Broncos Jonah Williams, OT, Alabama*
A 2017 first-team All-SEC selection, Williams is another talented offensive lineman.
8. Arizona Cardinals Deandre Baker, CB, Georgia
Baker played sparingly his first two seasons but had a terrific junior campaign (44 tackles, 3 INTs) for the Bulldogs.
9. Detroit Lions Dexter Lawrence, DT, Clemson*
Lawrence's production dipped a bit last season, but he's a highly-skilled, big-bodied (6-foot-5, 340 pounds) disruptive force on the interior.
10. Kansas City Chiefs Clelin Ferrell, DE, Clemson*
Ferrell had 9.5 sacks and 18.0 tackles for loss last season at Clemson, and there was talk he'd have been a top-10 pick in this class.
11. Cleveland Browns A.J. Brown, WR, Mississippi*
All Brown did last season was lead the SEC in receiving yards (1,252) and touchdowns (11) as a true sophomore.
12. Cincinnati Bengals Noah Fant, TE, Iowa*
Fant led the Big Ten in TDs (11) and averaged 16.5 yards per reception in 2017.
13. Washington Redskins Anfernee Jennings, LB, Alabama*
The redshirt junior started to come on strong last season (6.0 tackles for loss), and should put up big numbers this season with Alabama's exodus of defensive talent to the NFL the past two seasons.
14. Carolina Panthers Lukas Dennis, S, Boston College*
The 5-foot-11 defensive back led the ACC in interceptions (7) and return yardage off of those interceptions (185).
15. Miami Dolphins Derrick Brown, DT, Auburn*
Brown (6-foot-5, 316 pounds) had a strong sophomore season with 57 tackles, 9.5 TFL and 3.0 sacks.
16. San Francisco 49ers Chauncey Gardner, S, Florida*
The rangy safety had two interceptions last season for a stingy Florida defense.
17. Jacksonville Jaguars Drew Lock, QB, Missouri
Lock went back to school for his senior season, despite leading the SEC in passing yards (3,964) and passing yards per attempt (9.5).
18. Oakland Raiders Bryce Love, RB, Stanford
The diminutive (5-foot-10, 186 pounds) running back played through an ankle injury and finished second in the Heisman voting, compiling 2,118 rushing yards on the season (second in the nation).
19. Seattle Seahawks David Edwards, OL, Wisconsin*
The Seahawks continually need help on their offensive line, and Edwards could be a fit.
20. Atlanta Falcons Beau Benzschawel, OG, Wisconsin
Another talented Wisconsin offensive lineman could help protect quarterback Matt Ryan.
21. Baltimore Ravens Devin White, LB, LSU
White was a tackling machine last season, racking up 133 total tackles, including a nation-leading 96 assisted ones.
22. Tennessee Titans Michael Deiter, OT, Wisconsin*
Yes, Deiter (6-6, 328) could be the third member of Wisconsin's O-line to go in the first round next season.
23. Dallas Cowboys Dre'Mont Jones, DT, Ohio State*
The redshirt junior should have a chance to thrive on a talented Ohio State defense -- and lining up alongside Nick Bosa.
24. Minnesota Vikings Zach Allen, DE, Boston College
The senior has had back-to-back seasons of double-digit tackles for loss, and has the potential to go higher than talented teammate Harold Landry (second round, 2018 draft).
25. Houston Texans N'Keal Harry, WR, Arizona State*
New ASU coach Herm Edwards will love having the big (6-4, 216) receiver who ranked second in the Pac-12 in receiving yards (1,142) in 2017, for at least a season.
26. Los Angeles Chargers Justin Herbert, QB, Oregon*
Philip Rivers (age 36) isn't getting younger and Los Angeles needs to find his eventual replacement. Herbert played only eight games due to injury last season, but has a ton of potential.
27. Los Angeles Rams Josh Allen, LB, Kentucky
The star Kentucky linebacker was another potential 2018 first-round pick who decided to return for his senior season.
28. Philadelphia Eagles Deebo Samuel, WR, South Carolina
The talent is there, but injuries (18 games played in three seasons) have slowed Samuel's progress.
29. Green Bay Packers (from NO) Raekwon Davis, DL, Alabama*
Davis was a terror in a rotational role (8.5 sacks) last season and looked unstoppable at times in the College Football Playoff National Championship.
30. Pittsburgh Steelers Rodney Anderson, RB, Oklahoma
There are off-field concerns for Anderson, but the on-field talent is clearly there. How much will he miss Dimitri Flowers as a blocker?
31. Green Bay Packers Montez Sweat, Edge, Mississippi State
The Michigan State transfer had a huge junior season with 10.5 sacks and 15.5 TFL.
32. New England Patriots Christian Wilkins, DL, Clemson
Wilkins will play several positions along Clemson's incredibly talented defensive line.

Ask and you shall receive. 3 Badger OL in round 1. Remember when OL was a weakness under Anderson and Chyst's first year?

[Freak Out]

Partial with the ultimate jinx thread. Robert Durst would be proud.

[mraynrand]

16. San Francisco 49ers Chauncey Gardner, S, Florida*

whut?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/a9/83/cba983cfd5d90d13e54b57463646304c.jpg

[mraynrand]

Todd McShay posted a mock draft today for 2019 but gotta be a dam insider !

Packers lose to NE in the Superbowl

[Smidgeon]

Packers lose to NE in the Superbowl

With NO losing in the divisional round.

[The Shadow]

16. San Francisco 49ers Chauncey Gardner, S, Florida*

whut?

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/cb/a9/83/cba983cfd5d90d13e54b57463646304c.jpg

I love that film.

[mraynrand]

I love that film.

I like to watch

[The Shadow]

Boy, did Raphael send you?

[Deputy Nutz]

How the fuck do the Packers make it to the Super Bowl?

[mraynrand]

How the fuck do the Packers make it to the Super Bowl?

win a couple playoff games

[Zool]

How the fuck do the Packers make it to the Super Bowl?

Scoring more points than the opposition often enough to win enough games to get into the playoffs. Then, score more points than the opposition 3-4 times in a row.

[Joemailman]

How the fuck do the Packers make it to the Super Bowl?

Yeah, what chance does a team have of going to the Super Bowl a year after a 7-9 season? Hey, wait a minute...

[call_me_ishmael]

Nick Bosa is the best player in college football this year apparently. Lots of really great pass rushers. Sounds like a bad year for QBs and they resigned ARod anyway, so good opportunity to move up and get a special pass rusher.

[Joemailman]

Bosa?

[Zool]

Bosa?

Best O-lineman available.

[call_me_ishmael]

This draft is going to be so stacked defensively. The absolute perfect time to have a top pick if you need to have one and Aaron Wodgers is your QB.

[red]

Bosa is on our radar at #1

we can get o-line with the other pick in the first, and the first pick in each of the next 4 rounds

[pbmax]

Man I don't want Bosa. His brother is hurt. That family screams 'roids to me. Yes, this is a completely unfair and unfounded accusation.

[Joemailman]

1A OLB
1B OT
2 S
3 WR

[Cheesehead Craig]

I'm with pb on Bosa. While can be dominant, they seem fragile.

This upcoming draft has tons of DL talent and very little LB talent (at least Rd 1 worthy)

[Joemailman]

As we speak, Packers are picking 17th.

[pbmax]

As we speak, Packers are picking 17th.

And the Saints?

[Joemailman]

Man I don't want Bosa. His brother is hurt. That family screams 'roids to me. Yes, this is a completely unfair and unfounded accusation.

Bosa is leaving school to focus on rehab of his core injury. http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/24997557/ohio-state-de-nick-bosa-leaving-school-looking-draft

Damaged goods already?

[run pMc]

1A OLB
1B OT
2 S
3 WR

Wouldn't surprise me if they went TE in R3 if there's a worthy successor to Graham. Kendricks will be gone.

I'm betting they double or triple dip on OLB picks, and add a DL. Wilkerson didn't show much that Lowry hasn't, and Montravious has been invisible.

Agree they will have to reload at Safety. You have issues when Whitehead is producing over Brice, HaHa and Josh Jones.

[Joemailman]

As we speak, Packers have 16th pick. That's Justin Harrell territory. Last year it was Tremaine Edmunds.

[bobblehead]

I think its likely we move up a couple spots with the earlier pick (ours apparently) and then move back with the later one. I'm probably one of the few who like our talent on D a little bit. I look around the league and see a lot of not very good defenses. I think we have allowed the talent on offense to be neglected the last several drafts and only Rodgers keeps us looking respectable.

If I were guessing (I am) I think we move up for a pass rusher, move back and take a WR, then draft who knows what from there. This draft has a lot of WR talent. We need to rebuild the right side of the OL. We could use another talented RB. We need a coach that can use a TE. We need depth all over the defense with the possible exception of CB (as things stand).

[Joemailman]

I think its likely we move up a couple spots with the earlier pick (ours apparently) and then move back with the later one. I'm probably one of the few who like our talent on D a little bit. I look around the league and see a lot of not very good defenses. I think we have allowed the talent on offense to be neglected the last several drafts and only Rodgers keeps us looking respectable.

If I were guessing (I am) I think we move up for a pass rusher, move back and take a WR, then draft who knows what from there. This draft has a lot of WR talent. We need to rebuild the right side of the OL. We could use another talented RB. We need a coach that can use a TE. We need depth all over the defense with the possible exception of CB (as things stand).

My guess would be Gutey stays put with his own 1st round pick (18ish), and trades the Saints pick for an early 2nd and 3rd. That would give him a 1st, 2 2nds, 2 3rds and 2 4ths.

[bobblehead]

My guess would be Gutey stays put with his own 1st round pick (18ish), and trades the Saints pick for an early 2nd and 3rd. That would give him a 1st, 2 2nds, 2 3rds and 2 4ths.

Could be. I guess it depends on what the talent looks like in the 12-16 range. If there is ONE guy there he thinks is a difference maker I think he will move up though. I think most likely outcome is edge/WR/G or RB in that order.

[Joemailman]

15th Pick. Last time Pack picked 15th it was Wayne Simmons in 1993. Last year 15th pick was Kolton Miller.

[red]

don't forget about the other pick that looks to be about 30-32

[Rutnstrut]

It's going to take more than draft picks to fill the holes in this team. Rodgers was greedy so there won't be any spreading the wealth to pay much needed FA's or a big name trade or two.

[Joemailman]

It's going to take more than draft picks to fill the holes in this team. Rodgers was greedy so there won't be any spreading the wealth to pay much needed FA's or a big name trade or two.

Rodgers isn't an issue. 6 QB's in the NFL will have a bigger cap hit in 2019 than him. They'll have money to sign free agents. Just have to make the right decisions.

[call_me_ishmael]

Offensively, the Packers have the pieces at QB (presumably), LT, a very good WR, and a serviceable RB. Bulaga is a good player when healthy but he is rarely healthy. They save a lot of money cutting him but where are they going to get an equivalent player for that money? My gut feeling is they keep him around as well but I see it as basically a toss-up. If Graham can be cut without prohibit consequence, I think they will. I think Taylor is gone too if cost of doing so isn't prohibitive. He's been terrible this year.

They need offensive line help badly. They could also use another top pick at WR and TE.

Defensively

The Packers have foundational pieces at CB, and NT.

My gut feeling is Perry, Matthews, Daniels, Ryan are not back next year. They need a S or two, DEs, and OLBs badly. I think they reboot the entire front 7 basically.

[run pMc]

don't forget about the other pick that looks to be about 30-32

Some teams will give up a lot for a late R1 pick with that extra year. Usually you can trade it to move down a couple of spots into early R2 and pick up an extra R3 or 4. Wouldn't surprise me if Gute does this to restock at S and OL.

[call_me_ishmael]

Late #1 could have gotten TJ Watt. Boy he'd look good compared to oft injured Kevin King.

Point is, there's a lot of talent available at the end of 1. I look forward to finding it.

[Joemailman]

My guess would be Gutey stays put with his own 1st round pick (18ish), and trades the Saints pick for an early 2nd and 3rd. That would give him a 1st, 2 2nds, 2 3rds and 2 4ths.


Some teams will give up a lot for a late R1 pick with that extra year. Usually you can trade it to move down a couple of spots into early R2 and pick up an extra R3 or 4. Wouldn't surprise me if Gute does this to restock at S and OL.

Great minds think alike! :tup:

[mraynrand]

^^^ With decent drafting, you can rebuild the guts of a top-10 team for 5 years with that kind of draft. With some luck and skill, made you get a game changer or two out of it. It would be nice to have another all pro player - or two.

[RashanGary]

Big year for pass rushers in the draft. I guess if we have to have a down year, it would make it worth it if we got a stud pass rusher out of the deal. And next year AR will have better chemistry with the WRs and with Graham. So we’re just having a down year. Oh well.

[Joemailman]

Big year for pass rushers in the draft. I guess if we have to have a down year, it would make it worth it if we got a stud pass rusher out of the deal. And next year AR will have better chemistry with the WRs and with Graham. So we’re just having a down year. Oh well.

Packers lead the league in sacks. Stud pass rusher is not their greatest need. Safety much more of a need. As is Guard IMHO.

[mraynrand]

Great. Lets pick another safety. But you're right.

[wist43]

We have no LB's... position needs to be completely rebuilt.

[Joemailman]

Packers currently with 17th pick.

[mraynrand]

We have no LB's... position needs to be completely rebuilt.

https://media2.giphy.com/media/l0MYEjBlSWvMcxm92/giphy.gif?cid=3640f6095bee4e816f772e3341e6ef4a

[pbmax]

I wonder if wist cannot do the dishes if the house is out of dishwasher detergent.

"We must completely revamp the kitchen inventory!"

[Bretsky]

We have no LB's... position needs to be completely rebuilt.


Martinez is a good LB IMO

Wisty, you still think Fackrell sucks ? He's at least showing moves.

The rest look like riff raff

[mraynrand]

Joe Reed is just tearing it up for VA versus VA Tech - WR and kick returner. Will he return or go pro? Keep an eye on this guy, he's got moves.

[bobblehead]

Packers lead the league in sacks. Stud pass rusher is not their greatest need. Safety much more of a need. As is Guard IMHO.

Unlike QB, you can never have too many stud pass rushers. Its something you value every year with every pick. Adding a stud rusher covers so many weaknesses.

[Pugger]

Unlike QB, you can never have too many stud pass rushers. Its something you value every year with every pick. Adding a stud rusher covers so many weaknesses.

This.

If we add an EDGE guy, pick up a safety, TE and guard 2019 should be a hell of lot more fun than this mess we have right now.

[pbmax]

Packers lead the league in sacks. Stud pass rusher is not their greatest need. Safety much more of a need. As is Guard IMHO.

Yes, but Pettine is blitzing a lot to get those sacks. Plus some better coverage.

I get your point, especially now that Fackrell has now been UNLEASHED!, but I would like more front four pressure and a safety.

I don't know which I would take if the two were evenly rated when they pick in Round 1.

[Bretsky]

My guess would be Gutey stays put with his own 1st round pick (18ish), and trades the Saints pick for an early 2nd and 3rd. That would give him a 1st, 2 2nds, 2 3rds and 2 4ths.


Year after Year after Year we talk about an ideal trade down like this. Maybe trade a 1st into the 2nd and pick up an extra third. And then possibly even package a 3rd and 4th to move back into the 2nd. Sounds ideal; but it doesn't seem to happen often. My guess is there are a lot more teams trying to go this than those moving up

[Joemailman]

Year after Year after Year we talk about an ideal trade down like this. Maybe trade a 1st into the 2nd and pick up an extra third. And then possibly even package a 3rd and 4th to move back into the 2nd. Sounds ideal; but it doesn't seem to happen often. My guess is there are a lot more teams trying to go this than those moving up

You mean like last year when they traded #14 to New Orleans for #27 and Saints 1st round pick in 2019? And then traded #27 and a 3rd round pick to move up to #18? :D In 2008 they traded #30 to Jets for #36 (Jordy Nelson) and a 4th round pick. It doesn't happen often, but maybe it's something Gutey will want to try again.

[Joemailman]

Packers currently have the 14th pick. GBN Report on their big board has #14 overall...

Deionte Thompson FS 6-0, 215 4.50 Alabama JR

Any thoughts on the Packers drafting a Safety from Alabama in the 1st round?

[wist43]

Martinez is a good LB IMO

Wisty, you still think Fackrell sucks ? He's at least showing moves.

The rest look like riff raff

No, Fackrell isn't a player... Martinez is the only guy they should identify as being worthy of a roster spot next year... and I'd be looking to replace him as well.

Our LB'ing Corp is a shambles.

[wist43]

I wonder if wist cannot do the dishes if the house is out of dishwasher detergent.

"We must completely revamp the kitchen inventory!"

Are you saying you're going to remodel my kitchen??!!

You've been talking to my wife haven't you??

I told her next year, and she said, "you said that last year"!!

And so I did :)

[call_me_ishmael]

Packers currently have the 14th pick. GBN Report on their big board has #14 overall...

Deionte Thompson FS 6-0, 215 4.50 Alabama JR

Any thoughts on the Packers drafting a Safety from Alabama in the 1st round?

I just don't see how they don't draft two edge players with the top two picks. I would bet a good amount of money on that. This is a freaky deaky draft at that position and they need a talent upgrade their big time.

[Joemailman]

I just don't see how they don't draft two edge players with the top two picks. I would bet a good amount of money on that. This is a freaky deaky draft at that position and they need a talent upgrade their big time.

If the draft is deep at EDGE rushers, but not at Safety, and the best Safety is on the board when the Packers pick, it make make sense to take the Safety and draft EDGE with your other 1st round pick. That's kind of the argument some have made for why TT should have drafted TJ Watt. That was a deep draft at CB but not at EDGE.

Safety is where they need the greatest talent upgrade. Right now they have Tramon Williams, who isn't even a Safety, and undrafted guys. Unless Josh Jones develops.

[pbmax]

Are you saying you're going to remodel my kitchen??!!

You've been talking to my wife haven't you??

I told her next year, and she said, "you said that last year"!!

And so I did :)

I stay decidedly out of domestic disputes about remodeling. It only ends in tears or a new kitchen/bathroom.

[Fritz]

If the draft is deep at EDGE rushers, but not at Safety, and the best Safety is on the board when the Packers pick, it make make sense to take the Safety and draft EDGE with your other 1st round pick. That's kind of the argument some have made for why TT should have drafted TJ Watt. That was a deep draft at CB but not at EDGE.

Safety is where they need the greatest talent upgrade. Right now they have Tramon Williams, who isn't even a Safety, and undrafted guys. Unless Josh Jones develops.


After reading this morning's article as to why TT drafted King instead of Watt (Teats saw corner as a greater need), you could make the exact opposite argument.

[pbmax]

I'd have more faith in Josh Jones if it didn't seem like before every snap he is looking at someone else and in my head I hear him asking "What am I doing?"

[Fritz]

Can't you just let me live in my fantasy world, where soon he will play like Nick Collins?

[bobblehead]

If the draft is deep at EDGE rushers, but not at Safety, and the best Safety is on the board when the Packers pick, it make make sense to take the Safety and draft EDGE with your other 1st round pick. That's kind of the argument some have made for why TT should have drafted TJ Watt. That was a deep draft at CB but not at EDGE.

Safety is where they need the greatest talent upgrade. Right now they have Tramon Williams, who isn't even a Safety, and undrafted guys. Unless Josh Jones develops.

Draft the highest rated player on your board. If that is the 5th edge rusher you take him. If its the 1st safety you take him. If its the 1st guard you take him. There is no position on this team that can't use an upgrade and there is no position you can't sign a stopgap for.

[bobblehead]

Can't you just let me live in my fantasy world, where soon he will play like Nick Collins?

I'll settle for soon he will be an effective starter. Nick Collins might have been the best safety I ever watched (after it clicked).

[bobblehead]

After reading this morning's article as to why TT drafted King instead of Watt (Teats saw corner as a greater need), you could make the exact opposite argument.

TT pressed on that pick. He picked for need. I wonder how much his coach was lobbying him to get me a damn CB that can play. I just over looked TT's recent drafts that everyone was so down on. I only really saw one bad one.

[Joemailman]

Packers now tied with the Browns for 11/12 pick. Yes, it's come to that.

[pbmax]

BPA!

[esoxx]

I'll settle for soon he will be an effective starter. Nick Collins might have been the best safety I ever watched (after it clicked).

Ronnie Lott called and said you're full of shit.

Give it a rest with Collins.

[mraynrand]

Packers now tied with the Browns for 11/12 pick. Yes, it's come to that.

WE'RE NOT DETROIT!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysmLA5TqbIY

[mraynrand]

Ronnie Lott called and said you're full of shit.

Give it a rest with Collins.

Just give him the finger

[call_me_ishmael]

TT pressed on that pick. He picked for need. I wonder how much his coach was lobbying him to get me a damn CB that can play. I just over looked TT's recent drafts that everyone was so down on. I only really saw one bad one.

If you truly believe that, it's tough to take your opinion on football related matters seriously. His drafts from 2012 on have been total garbage. Arguably 2011 too IIRC. I did a detailed breakdown that clearly illustrates this point.

[call_me_ishmael]

If the draft is deep at EDGE rushers, but not at Safety, and the best Safety is on the board when the Packers pick, it make make sense to take the Safety and draft EDGE with your other 1st round pick. That's kind of the argument some have made for why TT should have drafted TJ Watt. That was a deep draft at CB but not at EDGE.

Safety is where they need the greatest talent upgrade. Right now they have Tramon Williams, who isn't even a Safety, and undrafted guys. Unless Josh Jones develops.

You can win with a stop gap at safety. Find any fast guy and he can be an okay free safety. See Williams being serviceable. You can win with okay safety play.

They need pass rush. Despite the sack numbers and Sackrell, they have a terrible pass rush. It doesn't pass the eye test and they cannot generate pressure without blitzing, which creates a host of other problems for the team and why they're garbage. They have a top tier D coach, time to get him some pass rushers.

[mraynrand]

They need pass rush. Despite the sack numbers and Sackrell, they have a terrible pass rush.

Yep. They have virtually nothing. You can't get pass rush with a bunch of bums. They have two decent players on defense: J"Xander and Clark. Something to build around but they need guys everywhere.

[Joemailman]

Packers currentlu have yhe 12th pick. The last time they picked 12th was 1984 when they picked Alphonso Carreker.

Last year the 12th pick was Vita Vea - DT - Tampa Bay

[gbgary]

Packers currently have the 12th pick.

this site says the 11th pick (if the draft was held today). unless there's a drastic change we'll have 3 of the top 50 picks.

tankathon.com (http://www.tankathon.com/nfl)

[Joemailman]

this site says the 11th pick (if the draft was held today). unless there's a drastic change we'll have 3 of the top 50 picks.

tankathon.com (http://www.tankathon.com/nfl)
That would be right since Browns apparently have toughee SOS.

[Joemailman]

Packers #11 overall picks:

1983: Tim Lewis
1972: Jerry Tagge
1945: Walt Schlinkmann

[Joemailman]

Packers have the 10th pick. The last time they picked 10th was 2001 when they drafted Jamal Reynolds. :shock:

[red]

Packers have the 10th pick. The last time they picked 10th was 2001 when they drafted Jamal Reynolds. :shock:

really?

4-7-1 is ONLY the 10th worst record?

good god

[gbgary]

Packers have the 10th pick. The last time they picked 10th was 2001 when they drafted Jamal Reynolds. :shock:

yup...picked up a game. :tup: tankathon.com (http://www.tankathon.com/nfl)

[mraynrand]

really?

4-7-1 is ONLY the 10th worst record?

good god

we need to lose some more games - stat!

[woodbuck27]

Ronnie Lott called and said you're full of shit.

Give it a rest with Collins.

No kidding but isn't youth terrific.

[woodbuck27]

Packers have the 10th pick. The last time they picked 10th was 2001 when they drafted Jamal Reynolds. :shock:


Ja jaja ja ... mal ...aise.

[MadScientist]

really?

4-7-1 is ONLY the 10th worst record?

good god

The tie throws things off. There are 5 4-8 teams, including the dirty birds coming to Lambeau this week. Half a game separates the 4th through the 11th slots.

[QBME]

Packers #11 overall picks:

1983: Tim Lewis
1972: Jerry Tagge
1945: Walt Schlinkmann

More 1983 please

[Joemailman]

Packers currently have the 12th pick. Alphonso Carreker territory.

[call_me_ishmael]

Given their holes, this is a great draft for them. I have never seen him play but Josh Allen from Kentucky sounds promising on paper. I like Rashan Gary from Michigan as well.

I sort of think they make a pick for the pass rusher high, and then trade down for an extra 2 and 3. They have so many holes that if they can get 5 picks in the first three rounds, you're bound to end up with at least a couple starters.

[run pMc]

Given their holes, this is a great draft for them. I have never seen him play but Josh Allen from Kentucky sounds promising on paper. I like Rashan Gary from Michigan as well.

I sort of think they make a pick for the pass rusher high, and then trade down for an extra 2 and 3. They have so many holes that if they can get 5 picks in the first three rounds, you're bound to end up with at least a couple starters.

It's early, but I'd be happy at this point with Josh Allen. I think he leads the SEC in sacks, and he seems ok against the run. I've seen a few "highlights" and he looks like he can play OLB, or even inside. Hell, if they bring back Clay they can swap them between ILB and OLB.

They need help at OL and all levels of their D, including DL -- I'm assuming they don't bring back Wilkerson, and I've come around to see they really miss Mike Daniels. Pass rush has been manufactured thanks to Pettine, but it's spotty - Holy Fackrell, Perry, etc. have one or two games and disappear for the rest. Safety is a real concern -- they need a true centerfielder that can run, take good angles, and let them play single high safety effectively on occasion. That there's been little/no dropoff with Tramon over HaHa is telling.

The QB also needs to adapt his game to more quick rhythm throws and less sandlot crap now that he's in the back half of his 30's, and the next OC needs to redo the playbook but not so much that it takes 3 years for everyone to master.

Assuming they stick with the 3-4 I'd expect at least one of their R1 picks to be an OLB/EDGE type.
It wouldn't shock me if they traded the NO R1 pick for a midround R2 and a future R1 from some team wanting to get back into the end of the first for the extra year on the contract for some player (or a QB, like teams did with Bridgewater or Lamar Jackson). Otherwise that could be a good place for the next starting RT.

[Bretsky]

Josh Allen would be awesome

Let's f'ck up these last 3 games for the GREATER GOOD !

Else we'll be looking at picking 10 selections later where the quality of players has a dip

[wthigoot]

Josh Allen would be awesome

Let's f'ck up these last 3 games for the GREATER GOOD !

Else we'll be looking at picking 10 selections later where the quality of players has a dip

Think the Packers might climb a bit to pick 18 (am guessing somehow they will beat the Bears). Allen would be great but probably will be gone by then.

Never too early to post a wild guess for the draft and look bad later. :-)

1-18 Montez Sweat - OLB - Mississippi State - 6-4 - 245
1-30 Noah Fant - TE - Iowa - 6-4 - 235
2-50 Drew Richmond - OT - Tennessee - 6-5 - 320
3-82 Jaquan Johnson - FS - Miami (Fla) - 5-10 - 195
4-115 Riley Ridley - WR - Georgia - 6-2 - 200
4-117 Khalil Hodge - ILB - Buffalo - 6-0 - 230
5-154 Hjalte Froholdt - OG - Arkansas - 6-4 - 310
6-192 Corbin Kaufusi - DE - Brigham Young - 6-7 - 285
6-198 John Baron - K - San Diego State - 5-11 - 190
7-233 Ryquell Armstead - RB - Temple - 5-11 - 215

[call_me_ishmael]

That boy from Florida can't do much else but rush the passer but boy does he look bendy. I would be 100% on board with two edgies in the first vs trading down or something given that it is chock full of good ones.

I hope the Packers lose on Sunday and lose out. It sucks but they need a talent infusion and picking at 20, 30, 50 isn't going to get a special player the way that picking at 10, 30, 40 would. You have your choice of an additional 20 players that way. Extrapolate that out another round and you're at 30, so basically an entire round of options.

[wthigoot]

That boy from Florida can't do much else but rush the passer but boy does he look bendy. I would be 100% on board with two edgies in the first vs trading down or something given that it is chock full of good ones.

I hope the Packers lose on Sunday and lose out. It sucks but they need a talent infusion and picking at 20, 30, 50 isn't going to get a special player the way that picking at 10, 30, 40 would. You have your choice of an additional 20 players that way. Extrapolate that out another round and you're at 30, so basically an entire round of options.

Is this the guy?
Jachai Polite - ER - 6-2, 242 - 4.65 - Florida

Haven't seen him in action but the numbers look good. Definitely worth a look on the 29th vs Michigan.

Maybe his running mate is worth watching also:
Vosean Joseph - OLB - 6-0 - 230 - 4.60 - Florida

(just looking at numbers from Great Blue North draft report to get an idea)

[SMBASS]

Think the Packers might climb a bit to pick 18 (am guessing somehow they will beat the Bears). Allen would be great but probably will be gone by then.

Never too early to post a wild guess for the draft and look bad later. :-)

1-18 Montez Sweat - OLB - Mississippi State - 6-4 - 245
1-30 Noah Fant - TE - Iowa - 6-4 - 235
2-50 Drew Richmond - OT - Tennessee - 6-5 - 320
3-82 Jaquan Johnson - FS - Miami (Fla) - 5-10 - 195
4-115 Riley Ridley - WR - Georgia - 6-2 - 200
4-117 Khalil Hodge - ILB - Buffalo - 6-0 - 230
5-154 Hjalte Froholdt - OG - Arkansas - 6-4 - 310
6-192 Corbin Kaufusi - DE - Brigham Young - 6-7 - 285
6-198 John Baron - K - San Diego State - 5-11 - 190
7-233 Ryquell Armstead - RB - Temple - 5-11 - 215


If Iowa's other TE T.J. Hockenson decides to come out early I'd take him over Fant in a heartbeat. Hockenson reminds me of a Jason Whitten type TE. Kid knows how to find holes in the D and get open plus has really good hands. Fant is good and probably faster but more of a WR/TE tweener.

[Joemailman]

DraftTek currently has packers taking Polite at #12.




Jachai Polite*, 3-4OLB, Florida
Height: 6-2. Weight: 260.
Projected 40 Time: 4.80.
Projected Round (2019): 1-2.
12/15/18: WalterFootball.com was first to report that Polite planned on entering the 2019 NFL Draft. The junior has been a force on the edge for Florida this season. Polite has an odd body type, but he could be a good rotational edge rusher in a 4-3 and would fit well as a 3-4 outside linebacker, which could be his best fit for the NFL. In 2018, Polite has 11 sacks with five forced fumbles, 43 tackles, 17 tackles for a loss and four passes batted. He has natural feel as a pass-rusher with speed, athleticism, moves, and a nose for the quarterback.

Polite is a solid run defender despite the body type of lacking length on the edge. He is a fearless defender who can set the edge, and his plays come in pursuit, especially from the back side. Sources tell me that Polite is a good guy off the field and is loved by his teammates.

Read more: http://walterfootball.com/draft2019OLB3-4.php#ixzz5ZmGNX1cC

Read more at http://walterfootball.com/draft2019OLB3-4.php#W066fZVG1GyQ0pYR.99

[mraynrand]

If Iowa's other TE T.J. Hockenson decides to come out early I'd take him over Fant in a heartbeat. Hockenson reminds me of a Jason Whitten type TE. Kid knows how to find holes in the D and get open plus has really good hands. Fant is good and probably faster but more of a WR/TE tweener.

Yeah, Hock looks a little light and small at 220, but he'll fill out. He has a big enough frame. Don't know about his blocking at all.

[Joemailman]

Yeah, Hock looks a little light and small at 220, but he'll fill out. He has a big enough frame. Don't know about his blocking at all.

Hock has already bulked up. Iowa has him listed at 250, but others have him listed in 240's.

Pretty good writeup with a few videos. https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/11/13/t-j-hockenson-the-better-iowa-te-prospect/

This site also has Fant #9 and Hock #43 on their Top 50. https://thedraftnetwork.com/2018/11/09/on-the-radar-rogers-2019-top-50-prospects/

[SMBASS]

Being in Iowa I've watched Hock and Fant a lot over the past couple of years. There was something about Hock even last year as a RS Freshman that made you notice he just had the, "it" factor. He really knows how to read a D and find holes especially against zone coverage. No way he's 220. He's definitely in the 240's range and he's a really good/deceptive athlete. Fant has a slightly different skill set and he's good but I just think Hock is going to be better and more consistent in the long term. If they would have had a QB who could throw a ball on target past 15 yards and an offensive coordinator who knew how to use TE's both of their numbers would have been even better. Fant is really good in the Redzone and at stretching the field/seam because of his speed.

[pbmax]

This draft thread might chase the Packers out of a Top 10 draft pick and into the playoffs.

[mraynrand]

This draft thread might chase the Packers out of a Top 10 draft pick and into the playoffs.

I’d be OK with that. Keep hope alive!

[Bretsky]

Screw that; this ship is the Titanic, whether we make the playoffs or not.

TANK

[Joemailman]

Still the 12th pick. 5 teams are 5-9.

[red]

That meaningless win last win cost us a shot at a top 5 pick

[Joemailman]

That meaningless win last win cost us a shot at a top 5 pick

Darn. We could use another A.J. Hawk. :p

[wist43]

With Aaron Rodgers playing like an idiot, and our weak defense - we're not a lock to beat either the Jets or Detroit.

If I were Philbin, I'd bench Rodgers just to send him a message - for the good of the team. Philbin won't be here next year, but Rodgers needs to get his head out of his ass... would love to see Philbin go out making a strong statement that Rosgers needs to straighten himself out.

[pbmax]

With Aaron Rodgers playing like an idiot, and our weak defense - we're not a lock to beat either the Jets or Detroit.

If I were Philbin, I'd bench Rodgers just to send him a message - for the good of the team. Philbin won't be here next year, but Rodgers needs to get his head out of his ass... would love to see Philbin go out making a strong statement that Rosgers needs to straighten himself out.

If you bench Rodgers, the point that will be made is that they are tanking for a better pick.

[Bretsky]

If you bench Rodgers, the point that will be made is that they are tanking for a better pick.



No way do you bench him for the best interests...aka...tanking...of the team

He's not 100% healthy; and it's in everybody's best interests to IR him and get him better.

[wist43]

If you bench Rodgers, the point that will be made is that they are tanking for a better pick.

I don't want to bench him for the sake of a higher pick, I want to bench him to send him a message.

He's not a very good QB right now, and hasn't been for a while.

I no longer have faith in him.

[call_me_ishmael]

Observation: There hasn't been a true, clear cut top QB bust taken since 2014 in Manziel. Winston and Mariotta sorta suck but one made the pro bowl and one won a playoff game so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Seems like in the past, every year at least one first round QB completely was terrible. Times appear to have changed here. It seems easier to find a winnable QB. Seems like all QBs are better now.

[RashanGary]

I agree with the tank sentiment. Fuck it. We need two pass rushers. Have to let Matthews go and cut Perry.

[oldbutnotdeadyet]

I agree with the tank sentiment. Fuck it. We need two pass rushers. Have to let Matthews go and cut Perry.

Yeah, I agree. I don't give one fuck what other folks say, what's best for team?

[pbmax]

I don't want to bench him for the sake of a higher pick, I want to bench him to send him a message.

He's not a very good QB right now, and hasn't been for a while.

I no longer have faith in him.

And if you sit him now, that message is lost. No one believes they are playing to win these last two games.

[texaspackerbacker]

I don't want to bench him for the sake of a higher pick, I want to bench him to send him a message.

He's not a very good QB right now, and hasn't been for a while.

I no longer have faith in him.

More ignorant shit! It is damn irritating to read a bunch of ingrates pissing on the still greatest QB in the history of the NFL. It's the rest of the team that is mediocre.

As for the draft, assuming they are not gonna move Clay Matthews to ILB on a regular basis, a long overdue move, then ILB is probably the greatest need. Actually, O Linemen, several of them, is clearly the weakest position group, but I'm leery about taking O Linemen in the first round. We and the league in general have just had to many busts there over the decades. The same is sort of true of OLB, but I'd still gamble on that with either the New Orleans first or the second round pick. We could use Safety help too as well as a TE, assuming the decision is made not to keep Graham. What we do NOT need is a WR.

[gbgary]

Rodgers history means nothing right now. it's about the possibility of putting the best team around him they can. throwing him out there for these last two games does nothing for next year.

[pbmax]

Rodgers history means nothing right now. it's about the possibility of putting the best team around him they can. throwing him out there for these last two games does nothing for next year.

Josh Allen
Josh Rosen
Baker Mayfield
Lamar Jackson
Sam Darnold

I mean, how can you go wrong with youth at QB! He's cheap and you can afford lots of other parts.

[run pMc]

More ignorant shit! It is damn irritating to read a bunch of ingrates pissing on the still greatest QB in the history of the NFL. It's the rest of the team that is mediocre.

As for the draft, assuming they are not gonna move Clay Matthews to ILB on a regular basis, a long overdue move, then ILB is probably the greatest need. Actually, O Linemen, several of them, is clearly the weakest position group, but I'm leery about taking O Linemen in the first round. We and the league in general have just had to many busts there over the decades. The same is sort of true of OLB, but I'd still gamble on that with either the New Orleans first or the second round pick. We could use Safety help too as well as a TE, assuming the decision is made not to keep Graham. What we do NOT need is a WR.

I think Rodgers is still good and GB is lucky to have a QB who has and can carry the team. Trouble is, age and injuries can take some of that away, and he needs better depth/more playmakers around him. He needs to be more of a facilitator and pick his spots than try to be sandlot MVP. QB rant over.
Draft wise, let's assume QB is not a priority. I'd also say ILB is probably NOT the greatest need, so we disagree there. ILB is becoming a devalued position, and they've spent draft capital there with Jake/Blake/Oren, and Morrison could be resigned cheap as a run stopper. The way offenses are going, you're more likely to see Josh Jones playing at ILB with Martinez or Matthews, who I think they should sign at a reduced price. He's not an everydown player anymore, but he's better than Gilbert or Perry.

OLB is a need. They will likely show Perry the door or redo his contract. He can't stay healthy, and they can probably find a younger & more dynamic player in this year's draft.
Depending on the DC and the defensive scheme, they might grab another DL and generate pass rush that way, but with Clark, Daniels, Lowry and Lancaster (who I think has leapfrogged Adams) they might be ok.

OL is a need. Bulaga is, sadly, broken by the game, and they have a bunch of leaky band-aids for depth. Byron Bell is not the answer. Linsley and Bahk are good, Taylor regressed. The rest are replacement level.

S is a need. I think they'd want to keep Tramon for his flexibility and demeanor in a young secondary. They obviously need to get better here though. Josh Jones and Kentrell Brice are not the long term future there, and neither is Eddie Pleasant.

CB is not a need unless they dump Tramon and don't resign Breeland or House. (I'd prefer Breeland over House, or neither if Breeland's asking price is high.) Alexander/King/Jackson are the long term future at CB and Tony Brown might figure in there too. Maybe they draft another in case King's injuries continue.

WR is not a need, although I'd consider a WR the following year. I think you have to continue to provide your QB with weapons, and WRs come and go. Plus, if you basically revamp a WR room like they did this year you end up with a bunch of rookies who don't know how to bail out the QB in the scramble drill. A better mix of young and vet would have benefited Rodgers this year.

TE is a need. Graham is not outrunning (or outjumping) anyone these days, and he's not a great blocker. So what does he do for your team? Maybe Tonyan can play.

RB is not a need, although if there's a guy they really like I could see them taking him. Having a 3rd down sparkplug/safety valve -- and using them correctly -- could jolt the offense. Look at how PHI uses Clement, or NE and James White, or CHI and Tarik Cohen. RBs feel like afterthoughts in GB, and that's a mistake.

P/K is not a need. Crosby is worth the money, and Scott will get better. I doubt Gute uses a draft pick on a LS.

[pbmax]

Rodgers history means nothing right now. it's about the possibility of putting the best team around him they can. throwing him out there for these last two games does nothing for next year.

His history means a lot. He can function is he is 50% of the passer he used to be, assuming he hasn't entered the Favre zone.

Josh Allen has nothing like that to draw on.

[pbmax]

Jason_OTC @Jason_OTC

NFL Draft standings post 4PM today

1. Cardinals
2. Raiders
3. Jets
4. 49ers
5. Jaguars
6 Falcons
7. Lions
8. Giants
9. Bucs
10. Bills
11. Packers
12. Panthers
13. Eagles
14. Broncos
15. Bengals
16. Browns
17. Dolphins
18. Redskins

[bobblehead]

Needs: Dynamic TE. Dynamic RB. At least one guard. Another WR. If you could get 2 Gs similar to Lang/Sitton we can win with the RB we have and whatever we can fill in. Still not sold on Spriggs, but as PB said somewhere, he is progressing...makes me think he is learning to carry enough weight to play T in the NFL.

Needs: Dynamic Edge Rusher. Another ILB at least similar to Martinez. A Safety who doesn't piss on his own shoes.

So, we could fill in with FA and a lucky draft and turn this around quick, but I'm thinking 2 year process. We have a couple impact players on the roster, but our holes are really bad. I get improving from within, but it might be too big of an ask. Tonyan, the young WRs, maybe Jackson to S. Some luck with injuries. Thats a lot that needs to break your way. I could be optimistic if we only needed one of those things, but we need all of them.

[beveaux1]

Needs: Dynamic TE. Dynamic RB. At least one guard. Another WR. If you could get 2 Gs similar to Lang/Sitton we can win with the RB we have and whatever we can fill in. Still not sold on Spriggs, but as PB said somewhere, he is progressing...makes me think he is learning to carry enough weight to play T in the NFL.

Needs: Dynamic Edge Rusher. Another ILB at least similar to Martinez. A Safety who doesn't piss on his own shoes.

So, we could fill in with FA and a lucky draft and turn this around quick, but I'm thinking 2 year process. We have a couple impact players on the roster, but our holes are really bad. I get improving from within, but it might be too big of an ask. Tonyan, the young WRs, maybe Jackson to S. Some luck with injuries. Thats a lot that needs to break your way. I could be optimistic if we only needed one of those things, but we need all of them.

It's amazing that our defense looks somewhat better than our offense. I agree that we have more needs on offense, but I think tackle and WR are our biggest needs there. I'm afraid Spriggs will never be a starting T and I'm not convinced we have a number 2 WR on our roster. I agree with the defensive needs, except I think Jones might end up being that MLB because he's not a safety. If we cut Bulaga, Perry, and Matthews, there better be some FAs that we can replace them with.

[call_me_ishmael]

Just look at the draft and what it's deep at. They're going to go defense because that's where the best players in the draft are and are in the deepest numbers.

They will probably add a TE, an RB, a guard, a tackle, and a WR, but I doubt they'll pick any of them in the first round.

[deake]

Observation: There hasn't been a true, clear cut top QB bust taken since 2014 in Manziel. Winston and Mariotta sorta suck but one made the pro bowl and one won a playoff game so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Seems like in the past, every year at least one first round QB completely was terrible. Times appear to have changed here. It seems easier to find a winnable QB. Seems like all QBs are better now.

In this capitalistic time that would mean the 20 million plus contracts for qb are over. The need for qbs has shrunk and so will the size of the contracts.

[The Shadow]

How much is the antiquated passing attack to blame & how much falls on the players? Moore, St. Brown & Valdez-Scantling underwhelmed. Cobb? I can't decide if it's the system or he just no longer has the quicks for the slot. I'd like to see us draft an ultra-quick Tarik Cohen-type - downgraded to the 2nd round for lack of size, perhaps - if Cobb is just not the answer anymore.

[call_me_ishmael]

In this capitalistic time that would mean the 20 million plus contracts for qb are over. The need for qbs has shrunk and so will the size of the contracts.

Not so sure I agree but what we are seeing is very few great teams and a lot of mediocre teams. Lots of parody since everybody can move the ball pretty well.

[call_me_ishmael]

Good read on the subject and why quarterbacks are better, fewer bust, and football has changed.

https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2018/10/10/17958238/quarterback-trend-easy-difficulty-jared-goff-drew-brees-patrick-mahomes

[bobblehead]

Just look at the draft and what it's deep at. They're going to go defense because that's where the best players in the draft are and are in the deepest numbers.

They will probably add a TE, an RB, a guard, a tackle, and a WR, but I doubt they'll pick any of them in the first round.

This is a big time WR draft. We could find a guy in round 2 that is usually not there that late. Problem is WR is a slow developing position.

[call_me_ishmael]

This is a big time WR draft. We could find a guy in round 2 that is usually not there that late. Problem is WR is a slow developing position.

Not so sure I agree.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings/ - here we only have 9 WR ranked in the top 75 players. Seems a little low but beyond that none are rated higher than 24!

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/12/17/18143385/2019-nfl-mock-draft-dwayne-haskins-justin-herbert-nick-bosa-ed-oliver - Here we have only two!! picked in the first round in this heavily defensive draft.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019_1.php - Has only one!! picked in the first round

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/15/2019-nfl-draft-big-board-rankings-nick-bosa-justin-herbert - None!! in the top 20 prospects

Of course none of this is cast in stone, but it is interesting.

[Cheesehead Craig]

In this capitalistic time that would mean the 20 million plus contracts for qb are over. The need for qbs has shrunk and so will the size of the contracts.

The amount QBs make won't go down. Not when the NFL is making money hand over fist and the cap goes up.

[mraynrand]

The amount QBs make won't go down. Not when the NFL is making money hand over fist and the cap goes up.

wait 'til the cable contracts expire. Unless cord-cutting revenue is replaced by revenue from a-la-carte programming or stuff like NFL.com/game pass, salaries will crater. Also, kids are playing soccer now. Football may be on it's way out.

[pbmax]

wait 'til the cable contracts expire. Unless cord-cutting revenue is replaced by revenue from a-la-carte programming or stuff like NFL.com/game pass, salaries will crater. Also, kids are playing soccer now. Football may be on it's way out.

Maybe. But Fox, like ESPN before it, just paid a huge amount for Thursday night football. The only reason to pay it, as ESPN did for Monday night, is as a loss leader and a promotion for all your other programming. NFL ratings have recovered and overall have still fallen slower than almost all other programming.

Cord cutting might affect NFL contracts last. ESPN fired people rather than rethink its live sports strategy and their new President is on board to have a "better" relationship with the NFL.

I have no idea how it could be "better".

[Cheesehead Craig]

wait 'til the cable contracts expire. Unless cord-cutting revenue is replaced by revenue from a-la-carte programming or stuff like NFL.com/game pass, salaries will crater. Also, kids are playing soccer now. Football may be on it's way out.

Oh I agree that the NFL is in overall decline, but they still bring in mountains of cash. I think it's still got about a decade of being the top sports dog in 'Murica.

[mraynrand]

Maybe. But Fox, like ESPN before it, just paid a huge amount for Thursday night football. The only reason to pay it, as ESPN did for Monday night, is as a loss leader and a promotion for all your other programming. NFL ratings have recovered and overall have still fallen slower than almost all other programming.

Cord cutting might affect NFL contracts last. ESPN fired people rather than rethink its live sports strategy and their new President is on board to have a "better" relationship with the NFL.

I have no idea how it could be "better".

One theory floated is that networks are going to focus on live sp;orting events. Non-sports programming is going elsewhere (Netflix, etc do it better), and most of the top rated shows are still live sports. So that's encouraging if you still want to get free broadcast football going forward. Also, the networks smartly stopped focusing on the protests that were at least in part hurting their ratings. But the trends are all against football. I think soccer overtook baseball this year in more popularity measureables, and the focus on football negatives like concussions, 'toxic masculinity' and the fallout from title IX particiapation leveling is working to deplete the lower ranks.

[bobblehead]

Not so sure I agree.

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/prospect-rankings/ - here we only have 9 WR ranked in the top 75 players. Seems a little low but beyond that none are rated higher than 24!

https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/12/17/18143385/2019-nfl-mock-draft-dwayne-haskins-justin-herbert-nick-bosa-ed-oliver - Here we have only two!! picked in the first round in this heavily defensive draft.

http://walterfootball.com/draft2019_1.php - Has only one!! picked in the first round

https://www.si.com/nfl/2018/11/15/2019-nfl-draft-big-board-rankings-nick-bosa-justin-herbert - None!! in the top 20 prospects

Of course none of this is cast in stone, but it is interesting.

8 went in the first 2 rounds last year. I like this years crop much better.

[deake]

Not so sure I agree but what we are seeing is very few great teams and a lot of mediocre teams. Lots of parody since everybody can move the ball pretty well.

My thinking was, if there are a larger number of NFL ready qbs available in the draft, why saddle yourself with 20 million contract on your vet ob when you can get a good one cheaper in the draft? This happens regularly in todays world.

[mraynrand]

My thinking was, if there are a larger number of NFL ready qbs available in the draft, why saddle yourself with 20 million contract on your vet ob when you can get a good one cheaper in the draft? This happens regularly in todays world.

Was this intended as a parody? Because there's lots of parodies among quarterbacks. That's why it only took Cleveland 20 years to draft a decent starter. And they only needed the first pick overall to do it. The last thing any NFL team needs is a great quarterback. Get the punter figured out first and the Lombardi trophy is yours.

[gbgary]

if Rodgers plays (with the groin/knee) and damages the draft position, with a win(s) (let alone rips the shit out of his groin/knee), it's front office malpractice.

[call_me_ishmael]

My thinking was, if there are a larger number of NFL ready qbs available in the draft, why saddle yourself with 20 million contract on your vet ob when you can get a good one cheaper in the draft? This happens regularly in todays world.

I tend to agree with this, at least when projecting 5 years out. Unless you have a superstar, is the 20th best quarterback really that much worse than the 10th best five years from now? What about 40th? Could you get the 33rd (aka the best back-up in the league) for 8M a year instead of 25M? Would you rather have Kahlil Mack and 24 points per game or Aaron Rodgers without Kahlil Mack and 30 points per game? Of course these are all hypotheticals.

My theory is that QB play will get better and more efficient and the median/mean will become very good and the truly special ones will be a slight hair better than the mean/median. The rule changes are enabling this future where if you can accurately throw a short to mid-range crossing route you're golden.

[deake]

I tend to agree with this, at least when projecting 5 years out. Unless you have a superstar, is the 20th best quarterback really that much worse than the 10th best five years from now? What about 40th? Could you get the 33rd (aka the best back-up in the league) for 8M a year instead of 25M? Would you rather have Kahlil Mack and 24 points per game or Aaron Rodgers without Kahlil Mack and 30 points per game? Of course these are all hypotheticals.

My theory is that QB play will get better and more efficient and the median/mean will become very good and the truly special ones will be a slight hair better than the mean/median. The rule changes are enabling this future where if you can accurately throw a short to mid-range crossing route you're golden.

The last few years have produced an unusually large number of average and better than average qbs, with few busts. If this trend continues we will have a surplus, which "should" reduce their value, which "should" reduce the size of their contacts.

[red]

we have 2 first round picks

and need 2 starting OLBs (or pass rushers if we switch Ds), 2 starting safeties, a new starting RT, maybe another starting guard, a starting TE (if the new head coach can figure out how to use those pesky guys), and another top notch player for the d-line to add to the rotation

oh and we still might need another WR if we finally dump cobb

so no problem

[Bretsky]

we have 2 first round picks

and need 2 starting OLBs (or pass rushers if we switch Ds), 2 starting safeties, a new starting RT, maybe another starting guard, a starting TE (if the new head coach can figure out how to use those pesky guys), and another top notch player for the d-line to add to the rotation

oh and we still might need another WR if we finally dump cobb

so no problem




F'ck

you are pretty much right.

I did like Harvey's dream offseason and it started with signing Golden Tate and a starting OG

[wist43]

I agree with the tank sentiment. Fuck it. We need two pass rushers. Have to let Matthews go and cut Perry.

We've needed pass rushers forever!!!

Even when a team has good pass rushers - you know what they need next?? More pass rushers!!!

Every draft, year after year, the first position I'm focusing on is DE, Edge, and OLB - however you want to define them, i.e. pass rushers. The next position I look at is DT, with an emphasis on pass rush.

The Packers have spit on building a dynamic front seven for years, and it's caught up to them. They have a weak defense overall, and they've been trying (and failing) to build a competent back end, all the while completely ignoring the front seven.

[beveaux1]

F'ck

you are pretty much right.

I did like Harvey's dream offseason and it started with signing Golden Tate and a starting OG

Why would we want Golden Tate. He’ll be a 31 year old WR that couldn’t start for the Eagles and this year averages less than 10 yards a catch when he plays. That’s the very definition of an aging, slow WR. Isn’t that what Cobb gives you.

[Bretsky]

Why would we want Golden Tate. He’ll be a 31 year old WR that couldn’t start for the Eagles and this year averages less than 10 yards a catch when he plays. That’s the very definition of an aging, slow WR. Isn’t that what Cobb gives you.


Golden Tate is better than Cobb and gives us a decent #2 while the young guys develop

[pbmax]

Is Tate really no longer starting?

[beveaux1]

Is Tate really no longer starting?

That’s been the talk in Philadelphia. He’s got Cobb numbers since the trade.

[beveaux1]

If we sign him or someone like him, we still need to draft a high round WR to develop. MVS and St. Brown have hit the wall. Together, they’re averaging less than 3 catches a game for the past 5 games. They might be closer to Janis and Davis in terms of potential development.

[pbmax]

I will always think of him as #2.

[call_me_ishmael]

I like Golden Tate as a player. I would love to find the next Greg Jennings. Just a silky smooth cat.

[mraynrand]

I like Golden Tate as a player. I would love to find the next Greg Jennings. Just a silky smooth cat.

Yeah, but you always have to worry about the stray feral sister cat that comes with him.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

German Shepherd should’ve traded back into the 1st to draft Jennings clone Calvin Ridley while he was free-falling. 2nd and 3rd could’ve gotten a deal done.

What’s better, Ridley or Jackson and Burks?

[mraynrand]

German Shepherd should’ve traded back into the 1st to draft Jennings clone Calvin Ridley while he was free-falling. 2nd and 3rd could’ve gotten a deal done.

What’s better, Ridley or Jackson and Burks?

I thought Ridley's ten yard catch against the Packers was amazing. If we play New Orleans, it would be nice to have him, if Rodgers feels comfortable throwing to him. Does he know Chisenbop?

[run pMc]

What’s better, Ridley or Jackson and Burks?

The answer will be clear in about 2 years. I was expecting more from Burks this year. Jackson has hit a wall, but he has tools a DB coach can work with.

[pbmax]

The answer will be clear in about 2 years. I was expecting more from Burks this year. Jackson has hit a wall, but he has tools a DB coach can work with.

This is a game you can't win runpMc. You pick ONE guy from a round earlier, scream about how he should have been drafted and point out the two lesser players drafted after this guy as proof it was foolish. Tank and Bretsky have mastered to format. Bretsky at least has the dignity to make it about a guy he actually liked.

Same thing with Mack trade. If McKenzie doesn't take Packers two #1 picks, should have offered three. Even given all the other holes there are to fill.

[Deputy Nutz]

we have 2 first round picks

and need 2 starting OLBs (or pass rushers if we switch Ds), 2 starting safeties, a new starting RT, maybe another starting guard, a starting TE (if the new head coach can figure out how to use those pesky guys), and another top notch player for the d-line to add to the rotation

oh and we still might need another WR if we finally dump cobb

so no problem

Alexander has played well this year, but I was stunned when they passed on Derwin James and the Chargers swept him right up after the Packers selection of Alexander. Packers are completely hopeless at Safety. Josh Jones hasn't looked good in coverages, very confused. I think if the Packers knew for sure that Josh Jackson would have been available with their 2nd round pick they would have thought longer on James.

They pretty much ignored a glaring hole in their pass rush throughout the 2018 draft, then passing on TJ Watt in 2017 might be the move that is the most damaging to this franchise. Not cutting Matthews this past off season made no sense, they guy has been dog shit for the past three years. 22 million in pass rush and not a damn thing to show for it is also unforgivable. I am now glad that the Packer Nation is finally seeing what I saw in Ted Thompson 5 years ago. The guy had a screw loose.

[call_me_ishmael]

2020 has two QBs who are leaps and bounds ahead of this years crop - at least so far from seniors. Will be interesting to watch how that shakes out. I still don't think either one is an Andy Luck type prospect.

[wist43]

The answer will be clear in about 2 years. I was expecting more from Burks this year. Jackson has hit a wall, but he has tools a DB coach can work with.

I'll be shocked if Burks ever turns into a player. Great athlete, terrible football player

[Deputy Nutz]

The Packers simply have too many hole to fill with draft and develop. They must utilize free agency. The offensive line must get better next year for this offense to be successful with Rodgers holding the ball for 15 seconds every drop back. I haven't investigated the free agent market for offensive linemen, but I would imagine there might be a couple of guys that they could get the job done. Same goes with veteran receiver. The Packers took three guys last year that all have potential, but they don't seem to be 100% ready to play 75% of all the snaps in 2019 and finding one maybe two receivers that could help transition would give Rodgers some added trust in his receivers. So for the first rounds of the draft the Packers will again draft for defense, unless they can't pass up an offensive linemen, pass rush and safety really can't be ignored going into the 2019 draft.

1st Round through 2nd round
Pass Rush and Secondary
3rd Round Through 5th Round
Offensive and Defensive Line, Linebacker, Tight End, or BPA
6th Round through 7th Round
Best player available

[texaspackerbacker]

Good assessment, but somewhere in there we need to pick up a kicker - or maybe a caravan of them. I'm especially pleased that you omitted Wide Receiver from your early and middle rounds. The team is fine there.

[Guiness]

Don't know if it's been brought up yet, but the second 1st round pick is quite possibly going to be #31 or 32...

[wist43]

Don't know if it's been brought up yet, but the second 1st round pick is quite possibly going to be #31 or 32...

Alexander was a good pick, so while I lament missing out on ever more front seven guys... I think the trade down and pick up of the extra 1st looks good in hindsight.

Now hopefully Gute will begin working to get us some studs in the front seven.

[smuggler]

Don't know if it's been brought up yet, but the second 1st round pick is quite possibly going to be #31 or 32...

It won't be because of the player they traded up for, so it's still a benefit and it was the right call for us.

[call_me_ishmael]

31 or 32 could easily turn into 39, 71, and 135. I would freaking love that given all the holes on the team. Trade the second first for a high second, a high 3rd and a high 5th.

[texaspackerbacker]

Aside from the fact that your scenario seems like too much to expect, we need quality, not quantity.

Despite what some say, this team does NOT need to be turned over or whatever.

[wist43]

Aside from the fact that your scenario seems like too much to expect, we need quality, not quantity.

Despite what some say, this team does NOT need to be turned over or whatever.

You're nuts Tex... this team lacks playmakers.

Yes, Rodgers underperformed this year, and McCarthy was a big part of the problem, but from top to bottom, especially on defense, this team is as pedestrian as they come.

Everyone should be under a microscope. I think you're the only one who thinks the roster doesn't need to be blown up.

[ThunderDan]

Aside from the fact that your scenario seems like too much to expect, we need quality, not quantity.

Despite what some say, this team does NOT need to be turned over or whatever.

You are so delusional it is fantastic. The Packers are average almost everywhere on the roster. And average doesn’t get it done in the NFL anymore. We have 4 or 5 key pieces but we need playmakers all over the roster.

Given your also delusional statement that drafting is mostly luck, you should want as many draft picks as possible. More picks, more lucky chances to draft the next superstar.

[red]

You are so delusional it is fantastic. The Packers are average almost everywhere on the roster. And average doesn’t get it done in the NFL anymore. We have 4 or 5 key pieces but we need playmakers all over the roster.

Given your also delusional statement that drafting is mostly luck, you should want as many draft picks as possible. More picks, more lucky chances to draft the next superstar.

since you and others (including myself) have brought up that we have tons of holes, and others have brought up that we can still trade down with out current picks to get even more.

lets take a look at what kind of trade value the win yesterday cost us

i know this is a bit confusing, but try and stay with me guys

lets say yesterdays lost moved us from the 7th pick to the 14th like someone else mentioned. thats a 400 point change, or a mid second round pick
moving from the 7th pick to 14th pick in the second, is worth an upper mid 4th round pick
dropping in the 3rd cost us a late 4th rounder
dropping in the 4th cost us a 6th

and so on

so the win yesterday cost us the equivalent of a 2nd, 2 4ths, and some late rounders

[texaspackerbacker]

You're nuts Tex... this team lacks playmakers.



Isn't that what I just said? QUALITY i.e. Playmakers. We have plenty of decent supporting players now, but other than Rodgers and D. Adams and maybe A. Jones, we lack star quality players ....... why? because we have not gotten LUCKY with very many draft picks for a long time.

You think others - including the ones who count, the leadership of the team - agree with you that the roster needs a major turnover? Hell no - and the way they proceed in the off season will show that. There's enough good young talent on this team that if 1 or 2 or 3 stars/playmakers are drafted or signed or developed, we will be back on top where we belong with Aaron Rodgers as QB.

[Guiness]

Alexander was a good pick, so while I lament missing out on ever more front seven guys... I think the trade down and pick up of the extra 1st looks good in hindsight.

Now hopefully Gute will begin working to get us some studs in the front seven.

Wasn't talking about the player the Pack ended up with, I'm more than happy with JA, he was their best corner this year.

I was just referring to the draft position of next year's Saints' first round pick. When they lost to TB week 1 I had high hopes for a top half of the round pick! Now it looks like they could be Super Bowl bound and if the Pack pick in the top of the first round it will be because they lost to a (Cassel led?) Lions team :sad:

[mraynrand]

so the win yesterday cost us the equivalent of a 2nd, 2 4ths, and some late rounders

But at least Rodgers can stick it to Stubby.

[Bretsky]

since you and others (including myself) have brought up that we have tons of holes, and others have brought up that we can still trade down with out current picks to get even more.

lets take a look at what kind of trade value the win yesterday cost us

i know this is a bit confusing, but try and stay with me guys

lets say yesterdays lost moved us from the 7th pick to the 14th like someone else mentioned. thats a 400 point change, or a mid second round pick
moving from the 7th pick to 14th pick in the second, is worth an upper mid 4th round pick
dropping in the 3rd cost us a late 4th rounder
dropping in the 4th cost us a 6th

and so on

so the win yesterday cost us the equivalent of a 2nd, 2 4ths, and some late rounders



TO YOUR COMMENTS I SAY

:knll:




This is why MARCIA MARCIA MARCIA Murphy needed to show some stones and handle the situation


DID YOU LISTEN TO AROD'S PRESSER ???? He keeps brining up how he needs to be a leader and that is why he wanted to play. It's almost overkill to where I wonder if/what kind of leader AROD is and whether this is about him.

[Joemailman]

since you and others (including myself) have brought up that we have tons of holes, and others have brought up that we can still trade down with out current picks to get even more.

lets take a look at what kind of trade value the win yesterday cost us

i know this is a bit confusing, but try and stay with me guys

lets say yesterdays lost moved us from the 7th pick to the 14th like someone else mentioned. thats a 400 point change, or a mid second round pick
moving from the 7th pick to 14th pick in the second, is worth an upper mid 4th round pick
dropping in the 3rd cost us a late 4th rounder
dropping in the 4th cost us a 6th

and so on

so the win yesterday cost us the equivalent of a 2nd, 2 4ths, and some late rounders

I see your point if you.re looking to do a ton of trading down. However, your numbers are off because a Packérs loss yesterday would have them in the 10th position, not the 7th. So the difference between the 10th and 14th pick woild be a mid-3rd, not a 2nd. The difference between the 10th and 14th pick in the 2nd round is worth a late 5th round pick etc.

[Joemailman]

TO YOUR COMMENTS I SAY

:knll:




This is why MARCIA MARCIA MARCIA Murphy needed to show some stones and handle the situation


DID YOU LISTEN TO AROD'S PRESSER ???? He keeps brining up how he needs to be a leader and that is why he wanted to play. It's almost overkill to where I wonder if/what kind of leader AROD is and whether this is about him.

Rodgers has always understood that the QB has to be a leader. His point that he can't be a leader sitting on the bench when he could be playing is an entire valid one. I thought it was great to see MVS, EQ and Kumerow play great yesterday. I think there's value in that.

I go back to 2006. Packers were 4-8 and going nowhere. They won their last 4 although it cost them draft position. (The last win was against the hated Bears, a team some here were apparently cheering for last week.) At any rate, 1 year later the Packers went 13-3 and made it to the NFC Title Game. Despite all that lost draft position.

[gbgary]

dropped from 11 to 14. a loss would have put them at 10.

[red]

I see your point if you.re looking to do a ton of trading down. However, your numbers are off because a Packérs loss yesterday would have them in the 10th position, not the 7th. So the difference between the 10th and 14th pick woild be a mid-3rd, not a 2nd. The difference between the 10th and 14th pick in the 2nd round is worth a late 5th round pick etc.

A “chance” to get up around 7

Getting up to 7 or so would also mean losing next week and a few of the many teams with one win less then us losing

Just like if we win again next week we might drop even farther back then 14

If we had lost we would be at #10 with a 5-9-1 record, with 6 teams ahead of us with a 5-10 record, including the jets

One of those teams is the lions. Realistically if we had lost out we would be drafting between #5 and #9, no lower

Now, we can draft no better then 10 (if everyone in front of us wins and we lose) and as low as 16 or 17 if we win again

[mraynrand]

Rodgers has always understood that the QB has to be a leader. His point that he can't be a leader sitting on the bench when he could be playing is an entire valid one. I thought it was great to see MVS, EQ and Kumerow play great yesterday. I think there's value in that.

I go back to 2006. Packers were 4-8 and going nowhere. They won their last 4 although it cost them draft position. (The last win was against the hated Bears, a team some here were apparently cheering for last week.) At any rate, 1 year later the Packers went 13-3 and made it to the NFC Title Game. Despite all that lost draft position.

Yeah, sorry, don't agree. The front office shut this 2018 team down. Rodgers isn't the coach. Sit him because he's hurt and recovering. The 2006 team was a rising team with two years' worth of new regime players and a first year coach. But there is an important point in your post - that this new Press/GM regime made the wrong call keeping Stubby for an extra year. Cut the cord and start the rebuild. They could have already have had an entire season working with the new scheme and Rodgers playing now would have meant something good. Now it just means ruining draft position in a vain attempt to show he can win without Stubbers.

[red]

Rodgers has always understood that the QB has to be a leader. His point that he can't be a leader sitting on the bench when he could be playing is an entire valid one. I thought it was great to see MVS, EQ and Kumerow play great yesterday. I think there's value in that.

I go back to 2006. Packers were 4-8 and going nowhere. They won their last 4 although it cost them draft position. (The last win was against the hated Bears, a team some here were apparently cheering for last week.) At any rate, 1 year later the Packers went 13-3 and made it to the NFC Title Game. Despite all that lost draft position.

Ah the Harrell draft, we drafted 16th that year

If we would have lost out we would have drafted 4th or 5th

Guys that went between #4 and #16?

Laron Landry
Adrian Peterson
MarShawn Lynch
Darrelle Revis
Patrick Willis

We might have won more then one super bowl in the last decade if we had drafted one of those guys

[Joemailman]

I think Rodgers looked as healthy yesterday as he's been all year. There was no reason to sit him.

[Joemailman]

Ah the Harrell draft, we drafted 16th that year

If we would have lost out we would have drafted 4th or 5th

Guys that went between #4 and #16?

Laron Landry
Adrian Peterson
MarShawn Lynch
Darrelle Revis
Patrick Willis

We might have won more then one super bowl in the last decade if we had drafted one of those guys

Or maybe not. You don't know who TT woild have drafted.

[mraynrand]

I think Rodgers looked as healthy yesterday as he's been all year. There was no reason to sit him.

Sure there was. Prevent possible injury. Teams do it all the time when their post season position is all locked up.

[Joemailman]

I'm still waiting for someone to post a list of teams that have won multiple Superb Owls because they threw games at the end of the season to get a higher draft pick.

[mraynrand]

I'm still waiting for someone to post a list of teams that have won multiple Superb Owls because they threw games at the end of the season to get a higher draft pick.

The Colts got Elway! lol.

[gbgary]

need denver to win tonight. that would move us up to 13.

[yetisnowman]

Sure there was. Prevent possible injury. Teams do it all the time when their post season position is all locked up.

They do it all the time when their PLAYOFF position is locked up, and they have postseason games to play within a week or two. Do you have an example of a healthy franchise caliber QB being benched for multiple games after the team has been eliminated from playoff contention?

[mraynrand]

They do it all the time when their PLAYOFF position is locked up, and they have postseason games to play within a week or two. Do you have an example of a healthy franchise caliber QB being benched for multiple games after the team has been eliminated from playoff contention?

Healthy? Not sure that exactly applies to Rodgers.

I see nothing wrong with shutting him down.

Vanity wins to spite Stubby are worthless.

The Packers brass blew it keeping Stubby this season. Cut your losses. There is nothing to gain playing Rodgers with a bunch of camp bodies. What if he gets a career ending injury behind their pathetic O line? Just to win a game and lose draft status? Insane, I tells ya!!

[texaspackerbacker]

Sure there was. Prevent possible injury. Teams do it all the time when their post season position is all locked up.

Yeah ...... if we had a playoff game coming up. Sadly, we don't.

"camp bodies"? Most of those players, especially at skill positions on offense, are the future of this team. Get them used to playing with Rodgers. Last week and next week are better times than in the preseason.

[wist43]

I'm still waiting for someone to post a list of teams that have won multiple Superb Owls because they threw games at the end of the season to get a higher draft pick.

The inverse of that... Dallas won 4 SBs with Troy Aikmen, whom they never would have had, had the Packers done the right thing and lost the last week of the 1988 season.

We win, and instead of getting a HOF QB in Aikmen, we get one of the biggest busts of that era, Tony Mandarich.

[bobblehead]

Isn't that what I just said? QUALITY i.e. Playmakers. We have plenty of decent supporting players now, but other than Rodgers and D. Adams and maybe A. Jones, we lack star quality players ....... why? because we have not gotten LUCKY with very many draft picks for a long time.

You think others - including the ones who count, the leadership of the team - agree with you that the roster needs a major turnover? Hell no - and the way they proceed in the off season will show that. There's enough good young talent on this team that if 1 or 2 or 3 stars/playmakers are drafted or signed or developed, we will be back on top where we belong with Aaron Rodgers as QB.

It doesn't need a blowup, but it needs some serious work. I can name 3 position groups I like (when healthy): QB, CB, DL. Even that is assuming we bring back breeland.

That means we lack NFL talent at RB, WR, TE,OL, LB and S. We have one worthy RB and WR, you need minimum 2 of each. Honestly you need 3 WR in todays game.

We need any TE that can play. We need 1 starter and upgrades at backup (tonyan might be a backup).

We have really bad guards with little help on the way and our RT is injured or inept depending on which one you want to pick on.

Our OLB has nice backups, but they are starting. We need 2 starters. We only have one ILB...probably can get away with that. Could use a better backup than Burks who can't seem to get any playing time. Maybe he develops.

We have zero safeties on this roster worthy of starting a game. We have nothing at safety I even like as a backup. Maybe shift King or Jackson or both, but then you weaken CB.

We can fill some spots, and we can grow from within a bit, but honestly, this team needs an enema. We could cover the bad safety play if we had great pass rush. We could cover the average pass rush if we had superior safety play.

We could fade bad RB with great OL, or a HOF RB could make an OL look better. A stud TE could makeup for lack or WR, or vice versa.

Get the point, we have TOO MANY HOLES to fix with super glue and bubble gum. A roster makeover...maybe not, but too many guys who should be backups have starting gigs in too many spots. Its a 2 year job and thats only if we draft well, which is harder to do from further down the board.

[bobblehead]

Yeah ...... if we had a playoff game coming up. Sadly, we don't.

"camp bodies"? Most of those players, especially at skill positions on offense, are the future of this team. Get them used to playing with Rodgers. Last week and next week are better times than in the preseason.

Or maybe if fat mike had played rodgers in preseason they might have developed chemistry.

[texaspackerbacker]

What makes you think we woulda taken Aikman over Mandarich anyway? We needed a dominant O Tackle, and Mandarich was supposed to be about the best to ever come along. Besides, Aikman wasn't near as good a player the guy we got several years later who played in Green Bay for 15 or 16 years.

[texaspackerbacker]

It doesn't need a blowup, but it needs some serious work. I can name 3 position groups I like (when healthy): QB, CB, DL. Even that is assuming we bring back breeland.

That means we lack NFL talent at RB, WR, TE,OL, LB and S. We have one worthy RB and WR, you need minimum 2 of each. Honestly you need 3 WR in todays game.

We need any TE that can play. We need 1 starter and upgrades at backup (tonyan might be a backup).

We have really bad guards with little help on the way and our RT is injured or inept depending on which one you want to pick on.

Our OLB has nice backups, but they are starting. We need 2 starters. We only have one ILB...probably can get away with that. Could use a better backup than Burks who can't seem to get any playing time. Maybe he develops.

We have zero safeties on this roster worthy of starting a game. We have nothing at safety I even like as a backup. Maybe shift King or Jackson or both, but then you weaken CB.

We can fill some spots, and we can grow from within a bit, but honestly, this team needs an enema. We could cover the bad safety play if we had great pass rush. We could cover the average pass rush if we had superior safety play.

We could fade bad RB with great OL, or a HOF RB could make an OL look better. A stud TE could makeup for lack or WR, or vice versa.

Get the point, we have TOO MANY HOLES to fix with super glue and bubble gum. A roster makeover...maybe not, but too many guys who should be backups have starting gigs in too many spots. Its a 2 year job and thats only if we draft well, which is harder to do from further down the board.

Sheeesh! We lack NFL talent at RB? at WR? I'd say we have 2 young quality RBs and at WR, a top five in the league guy along with several young players who show clear signs of becoming star quality players. Even TE we have a slightly aging former all pro and a long term quality starter (who is about 4th string for us).

I'm not gonna defend our O Line after all I've said about it, but a lot of people have a high opinion of several current players. Aaron Rodgers doesn't need a good O Line to thrive with his mobility. A. Jones and Williams did all right with the plugs we have also.

We may not have a Khalil Mack level OLB, but very few do. We do, however, have several decent players - as good as what a lot of teams put on the field.

I think we could solve our ILB problem in house if Matthews was switched there.

And Safety? Even at his age, Tramon Williams has done a decent job. Yeah, we could use somebody there in the draft, but as you said, the problem could be helped in house with our abundance of good Corners. Also, Josh Jones still stands a strong chance of being a quality starter.

You didn't even mention Kicker where we really ought to replace Crosby.

A healthy Aaron Rodgers NOT "reined in", fairly decent coaching, and just what we have makes the Packers STILL a top five or better team in the NFL. And here we sit with 2 first round picks and I think several extra in mid to later rounds too, so there certainly ought to be a degree of improvement.

[Joemailman]

It doesn't need a blowup, but it needs some serious work. I can name 3 position groups I like (when healthy): QB, CB, DL. Even that is assuming we bring back breeland.

That means we lack NFL talent at RB, WR, TE,OL, LB and S. We have one worthy RB and WR, you need minimum 2 of each. Honestly you need 3 WR in todays game.

We need any TE that can play. We need 1 starter and upgrades at backup (tonyan might be a backup).

We have really bad guards with little help on the way and our RT is injured or inept depending on which one you want to pick on.

Our OLB has nice backups, but they are starting. We need 2 starters. We only have one ILB...probably can get away with that. Could use a better backup than Burks who can't seem to get any playing time. Maybe he develops.

We have zero safeties on this roster worthy of starting a game. We have nothing at safety I even like as a backup. Maybe shift King or Jackson or both, but then you weaken CB.

We can fill some spots, and we can grow from within a bit, but honestly, this team needs an enema. We could cover the bad safety play if we had great pass rush. We could cover the average pass rush if we had superior safety play.

We could fade bad RB with great OL, or a HOF RB could make an OL look better. A stud TE could makeup for lack or WR, or vice versa.

Get the point, we have TOO MANY HOLES to fix with super glue and bubble gum. A roster makeover...maybe not, but too many guys who should be backups have starting gigs in too many spots. Its a 2 year job and thats only if we draft well, which is harder to do from further down the board.
I think Pack is a little better at WR than you think. Don't forget, Allison was putting up legitimate #2 numbers when he got injured. (300+ yards in 5 games). MVS and ESB have shown enough as rookies to,think they can be above average as 3/4, if not a 2. They are fine at 1/2 RB, but need a 3rd. They need starters at G, RT, TE, OLB and S.

[red]

Or maybe if fat mike had played rodgers in preseason they might have developed chemistry.

Ding ding ding

[bobblehead]

I think Pack is a little better at WR than you think. Don't forget, Allison was putting up legitimate #2 numbers when he got injured. (300+ yards in 5 games). MVS and ESB have shown enough as rookies to,think they can be above average as 3/4, if not a 2. They are fine at 1/2 RB, but need a 3rd. They need starters at G, RT, TE, OLB and S.

In house development is what everyone (can't recall if you are in group) hates so much. Allison is pretty much kumerow. A guy who hangs around and is serviceable. MAYBE the young guys can develop, kinda early to say, but the goal is to have those guys down the depth chart another notch. If we had a legit #2 and then Allison/Kumerow as 3/4 to go with 2 more development guys I'd feel pretty good. As it is, we are have development guys at 2/3. MVS has disappeared if you haven't noticed.

I think Jones is a good RB you can win with, but you need another like him in todays game. RBs get hurt. Period. Not just ours. Williams has looked good for exactly one game I can recall and we just played it so the opium is good right now. The Jets are near the league bottom v. the run.

Its sort of my point about this roster. Guys who should be developing and playing ST are starting all over the place. At OLB I love both Gilbert and Fackrell....as backups who play in spurts. As things stand Nick Perry being healthy and playing like he has for about a 10 game stretch once in his career is perhaps the biggest need we have...you want to post the vegas line on that happening? I say +800.

[mraynrand]

Its sort of my point about this roster. Guys who should be developing and playing ST are starting all over the place. At OLB I love both Gilbert and Fackrell....as backups who play in spurts.

agree

[Bretsky]

I'm still waiting for someone to post a list of teams that have won multiple Superb Owls because they threw games at the end of the season to get a higher draft pick.

What proof do you have that teams do not do this and they did not have greater success in the draft ? There is no proof either way. The thought that we'd be better off drafting 10 spots higher in each round is just a common sense view.

Actually those who often supported Ted Thompson would use a reverse argument and blame some of Ted's failures in the draft on drafting too low.

And if AROD needs to keep touting himself as being a leader via the media by playing these games to me that it telling

[Bretsky]

The inverse of that... Dallas won 4 SBs with Troy Aikmen, whom they never would have had, had the Packers done the right thing and lost the last week of the 1988 season.

We win, and instead of getting a HOF QB in Aikmen, we get one of the biggest busts of that era, Tony Mandarich.




DING DING DING

I remember friends hammering on me for hoping GB lose that last game so we'd have the #1 pick

A better draft position gives you a better shot to get better players

[texaspackerbacker]

I had actually forgotten about Allison. We thus have SIX quality WRs going forward - a legitimate superstar in Adams, 2 excellent young WRs in MVS and St. Brown - damn good right now, potential star quality soon, a guy drafted above those two - Moore - who still has a strong chance to develop (I'd say all three look better than Davante Adams did at the same stage of his career), and two low potential (allegedly)/high achievers - Kumerow and Allison. And that doesn't even count Cobb - likely gone, and Davis a decent kick returner.

And some say we need to use a high draft pick on a WR or we don't have anybody other than Adams who looks like an NFL player? Come on!

[yetisnowman]

Healthy? Not sure that exactly applies to Rodgers.

I see nothing wrong with shutting him down.

Vanity wins to spite Stubby are worthless.

The Packers brass blew it keeping Stubby this season. Cut your losses. There is nothing to gain playing Rodgers with a bunch of camp bodies. What if he gets a career ending injury behind their pathetic O line? Just to win a game and lose draft status? Insane, I tells ya!!

Well Rodgers wasn't on the injury report, he practiced all week, wasn't limping, and played as agile of a game as he has all season. So he's as healthy as all the other thousands of players that suited up last week. If you want GB to be the one and only team to bench their starting qb(the highest paid player in the league) to tank then that's your opinion. No one sits on the bench of a non-playoff team to simply avoid a possible injury or intentionally try to lose in the NFL. It's just not what happens. Of course I would love a higher pick, but I also don't really like the idea of the Packers being the first team to overtly try to tank by benching their best players.

[mraynrand]

Well Rodgers wasn't on the injury report, he practiced all week, wasn't limping, and played as agile of a game as he has all season. So he's as healthy as all the other thousands of players that suited up last week. If you want GB to be the one and only team to bench their starting qb(the highest paid player in the league) to tank then that's your opinion. No one sits on the bench of a non-playoff team to simply avoid a possible injury or intentionally try to lose in the NFL. It's just not what happens. Of course I would love a higher pick, but I also don't really like the idea of the Packers being the first team to overtly try to tank by benching their best players.

I don't like the idea either, but the Packer Brass tanked the season from the start, so it least would be consistent. And Rodgers has been hurt all year so they easily could have said his knee and shoulder were issues. Or they could have just listed 'inaccuracy' on the injury report.

Also, they really need to develop the back-up QBs. What better way to find out what they have and give them playing experience than to start them in a regular season game?

The Packers have no obligation to play Rodgers just to accommodate the league or fans. They're out of the playoff running - optimize your chances for next year.

[pbmax]

Yeah, sorry, don't agree. The front office shut this 2018 team down. Rodgers isn't the coach. Sit him because he's hurt and recovering. The 2006 team was a rising team with two years' worth of new regime players and a first year coach. But there is an important point in your post - that this new Press/GM regime made the wrong call keeping Stubby for an extra year. Cut the cord and start the rebuild. They could have already have had an entire season working with the new scheme and Rodgers playing now would have meant something good. Now it just means ruining draft position in a vain attempt to show he can win without Stubbers.

Important to note that Murphy, not Gute, would have signed off on McCarthy getting another year.

Its possible they did not like last year's coaching candidates. Or weren't prepared. Or thought the job wouldn't attract they people they REALLY wanted unless Rodgers was signed long term. Having a lame duck coach and a QB seeking a new deal is drama that no one save McCarthy could survive, ironically. Since the extra Stubby year was done mid-season, I tend to think it was all about signing Rodgers at that point, not there candidates.

But Murphy screwed himself again by not publicly signing off on evaluating young talent and sitting Rodgers. Instead he talked about Phibin being a viable coaching candidate and gave no one any cover to sit the starters.

He's pretty middling for a President.

[pbmax]

The Colts got Elway! lol.

They also got Luck, but Manning was actually hurt. But they tanked that year hard because of Manning as well.

[pbmax]

That means we lack NFL talent at RB, WR, TE,OL, LB and S. We have one worthy RB and WR, you need minimum 2 of each. Honestly you need 3 WR in todays game.



Williams and Jones can make it work at RB easily. Need some backups, but who doesn't?

Want them to draft a WR, but they can make the current unit work with one guy stepping up to start outside.

[mraynrand]

Important to note that Murphy, not Gute, would have signed off on McCarthy getting another year.

Its possible they did not like last year's coaching candidates. Or weren't prepared. Or thought the job wouldn't attract they people they REALLY wanted unless Rodgers was signed long term. Having a lame duck coach and a QB seeking a new deal is drama that no one save McCarthy could survive, ironically. Since the extra Stubby year was done mid-season, I tend to think it was all about signing Rodgers at that point, not there candidates.

But Murphy screwed himself again by not publicly signing off on evaluating young talent and sitting Rodgers. Instead he talked about Phibin being a viable coaching candidate and gave no one any cover to sit the starters.

He's pretty middling for a President.

OK, I agree with the final point about Murphy and this posts makes a lot of sense, but I'm confused as to why they needed to sign Stubby for a year to get Rodgers for three.

[call_me_ishmael]

I had actually forgotten about Allison. We thus have SIX quality WRs going forward - a legitimate superstar in Adams, 2 excellent young WRs in MVS and St. Brown - damn good right now, potential star quality soon, a guy drafted above those two - Moore - who still has a strong chance to develop (I'd say all three look better than Davante Adams did at the same stage of his career), and two low potential (allegedly)/high achievers - Kumerow and Allison. And that doesn't even count Cobb - likely gone, and Davis a decent kick returner.

And some say we need to use a high draft pick on a WR or we don't have anybody other than Adams who looks like an NFL player? Come on!

We have a completely inept offense outside of a few rare moments all season long and Tex manages a way to project that three of the perimeter players are all-stars in addition to an all-star QB and a future all-star RB. I just cannot even my dude.

The only one of these folks that isn't expendable is Adams. The others are just guys.

[pbmax]

OK, I agree with the final point about Murphy and this posts makes a lot of sense, but I'm confused as to why they needed to sign Stubby for a year to get Rodgers for three.

An unsettled coaching situation is risky. All the speculation it could engender makes a signing less likely for both sides.

To get Rodgers to sign early, the team wants a settled, known situation with the least uncertainty. And their budget tells them they don't want to pay the risk premium Rodgers would ask for if it was obvious a coaching change could happen at a moments notice.

Its just my reasoning on why they gave M3 another year. It could be generally true without the explicit reason being Rodgers. As in, Murphy wants some stability on the football side while he kicks Ted upstairs.

I wonder if they sent Ted his locker last year?

[run pMc]

We have a completely inept offense outside of a few rare moments all season long and Tex manages a way to project that three of the perimeter players are all-stars in addition to an all-star QB and a future all-star RB. I just cannot even my dude.

The only one of these folks that isn't expendable is Adams. The others are just guys.

I wouldn't be against bringing Cobb back for the veteran presence and as a PR, but I wouldn't think he's anything more than a #4WR/slot guy. Adams, Allison and either ESB or MVS (depending which makes the so-called year 2 jump) are probably your top 3. Kumerow needs to get smarter about running his routes -- all the young guys do, actually, and getting open on the dreaded scramble drill. The WR group is young and inconsistent, and has been the source of some of the issues with the passing game. Rodgers has issues too, as well as the OL, and scheme.

I'd almost take Cobb over Trevor Davis -- neither can stay healthy, and Davis is decent as a ST player, but Cobb gives you more on offense than Davis ever has. You can play Cobb 10-15 plays on offense and ST. It's been 3 years with Davis, if the light was gonna go on it would've by now.
If they do spend a pick on WR, it will either be a late rounder flyer or someone who fell into their lap. They have bigger issues.

I keep going back and forth on whether to spend a higher pick (R1-3) on a TE...there aren't many good ones, and it seems like most teams can make do with what they have. With the size the WR's have, you're almost better off having them run routes, but not sure what you do for run blocking...putting a 6th OL is a giveaway to the play call.

[Bretsky]

Might bring Cobb back for three MIL/Year but that is about it.

[Guiness]

Ah the Harrell draft, we drafted 16th that year

If we would have lost out we would have drafted 4th or 5th

Guys that went between #4 and #16?

Laron Landry
Adrian Peterson
MarShawn Lynch
Darrelle Revis
Patrick Willis

We might have won more then one super bowl in the last decade if we had drafted one of those guys

So was Levi Brown, Jamaal Anderson and Amovi Okoye. It's a crap shoot.

[red]

we currently have the 12th pick, could still move up to 11

could have been 8th if we would have gotten our shit together last week

time will tell, and i, what those players drafted at 8, 9, 10 and 11 do compared to 12

[woodbuck27]

Well Rodgers wasn't on the injury report, he practiced all week, wasn't limping, and played as agile of a game as he has all season. So he's as healthy as all the other thousands of players that suited up last week. If you want GB to be the one and only team to bench their starting qb(the highest paid player in the league) to tank then that's your opinion. No one sits on the bench of a non-playoff team to simply avoid a possible injury or intentionally try to lose in the NFL. It's just not what happens. Of course I would love a higher pick, but I also don't really like the idea of the Packers being the first team to overtly try to tank by benching their best players.

I agree.

[Bretsky]

Williams and Jones can make it work at RB easily. Need some backups, but who doesn't?

Want them to draft a WR, but they can make the current unit work with one guy stepping up to start outside.


AGREE

I've been asking for a speed burner skat back forever

REALITY is they need one Major upgrade at either TE or WR. They need one more guy that can make a play there.

[Teamcheez1]

Well Rodgers wasn't on the injury report, he practiced all week, wasn't limping, and played as agile of a game as he has all season. So he's as healthy as all the other thousands of players that suited up last week. If you want GB to be the one and only team to bench their starting qb(the highest paid player in the league) to tank then that's your opinion. No one sits on the bench of a non-playoff team to simply avoid a possible injury or intentionally try to lose in the NFL. It's just not what happens. Of course I would love a higher pick, but I also don't really like the idea of the Packers being the first team to overtly try to tank by benching their best players.

Rodgers was injured all season,barely practiced every week,limped every game, and wasn’t exactly agile at times. He wasn’t as healthy as the thousands of players in the league. He certainly didn’t earn his $30M salary. One of the first questions he should be asked is what is he going to do to earn the $100M+ the Packers are scheduled to pay him over the next 3-4 years.

[red]

Rodgers was injured all season,barely practiced every week,limped every game, and wasn’t exactly agile at times. He wasn’t as healthy as the thousands of players in the league. He certainly didn’t earn his $30M salary. One of the first questions he should be asked is what is he going to do to earn the $100M+ the Packers are scheduled to pay him over the next 3-4 years.

actually, we paid him about 66 or 67 million this year

on the flip side, next season we will pay him about 15 million, and i'm sure some talking heads out there will be talking about how little we are paying him and how we should give him more

don't let cap numbers fool ya

he will end up cashing in about 100 million in 3 years though. not bad for someone who ranked towards the bottom half in the league for starting QBs

[yetisnowman]

Rodgers was injured all season,barely practiced every week,limped every game, and wasn’t exactly agile at times. He wasn’t as healthy as the thousands of players in the league. He certainly didn’t earn his $30M salary. One of the first questions he should be asked is what is he going to do to earn the $100M+ the Packers are scheduled to pay him over the next 3-4 years.

I was referring to how healthy he was last Sunday specifically. When everyone was clamoring for him to be benched, he looked healthier and more mobile than he had all season. My point was, again, that teams in the NFL don't bench their starting qbs in that condition just to try to lose. Today he got his head taken off and they had a nice angle to mini-tank this game early. He was actually dinged up today and not moving right.

[call_me_ishmael]

AGREE

I've been asking for a speed burner skat back forever

REALITY is they need one Major upgrade at either TE or WR. They need one more guy that can make a play there.

Is that player not Aaron Jones? He is the speed burner skat back!

[mraynrand]

I was referring to how healthy he was last Sunday specifically. When everyone was clamoring for him to be benched, he looked healthier and more mobile than he had all season. My point was, again, that teams in the NFL don't bench their starting qbs in that condition just to try to lose. Today he got his head taken off and they had a nice angle to mini-tank this game early. He was actually dinged up today and not moving right.

So what? His multiple injuries only serve as a pretext. You could just say it's a coaches decision to get Kizer PT. Your post comes across as "hey, Rodgers got hurt - now we can't get criticized for pulling him." yikes. The Packers crapped the bed and had no reason to play Rodgers. As a fan, I suppose I might be disappointed to pay money go to a game and not see him play, but I'd be far more disappointed that the game was meaningless (or better stated, was meaningful in that they needed to lose for better draft position) and the QB got hurt badly enough behind a crappy O-line to leave in an ambulance. The last two weeks with Rodgers has been organizational malpractice.

[yetisnowman]

So what? His multiple injuries only serve as a pretext. You could just say it's a coaches decision to get Kizer PT. Your post comes across as "hey, Rodgers got hurt - now we can't get criticized for pulling him." yikes. The Packers crapped the bed and had no reason to play Rodgers. As a fan, I suppose I might be disappointed to pay money go to a game and not see him play, but I'd be far more disappointed that the game was meaningless (or better stated, was meaningful in that they needed to lose for better draft position) and the QB got hurt badly enough behind a crappy O-line to leave in an ambulance. The last two weeks with Rodgers has been organizational malpractice.

Yeah he got injured during the game, was concussed and limping, so he left the game. Yikes? It's the NFL man, these guys are gladiators and competitors. Maybe you should pick up another sport if you think guys making 30 mil a year should sit on the bench out of fear of getting hurt with a 6 month off-season ahead of them. My point was he was noticeably injured, so they pulled him. Hence mini-tank. I doubt he leaves if that was a playoff game. I think the ambulance was precauitionary. We disagree. You think the Packers should be the one and only team to bench a guy at his healthiest point all season. Carr, Ryan, Keenum, a bunch of other guys with nothing to play for played yesterday. They have spotty o-lines too. That's just not what football players do.

[mraynrand]

Yeah he got injured during the game, was concussed and limping, so he left the game. Yikes? It's the NFL man, these guys are gladiators and competitors. Maybe you should pick up another sport if you think guys making 30 mil a year should sit on the bench out of fear of getting hurt with a 6 month off-season ahead of them. My point was he was noticeably injured, so they pulled him. Hence mini-tank. I doubt he leaves if that was a playoff game. I think the ambulance was precauitionary. We disagree. You think the Packers should be the one and only team to bench a guy at his healthiest point all season. Carr, Ryan, Keenum, a bunch of other guys with nothing to play for played yesterday. They have spotty o-lines too. That's just not what football players do.

Again, the injury/warrior/gladiator stuff is not my argument. You can argue that with someone else. I confess I'm not in the Packer locker room, so I don't know what Rodger's actual physical status is really. I guess he can run and throw inaccurate passes, so he must be marginally functional. I do know that last year they played him for a game and then put him on IR, so take what you want from that. I'm simply arguing that they can use any pretext they want to shut him down. Since they are out of the running, playing their backups gives them more chances at evaluation, so that's a perfectly valid pretext also. Just because the league does something some traditional way, doesn't require the Packers to follow suit. The preseason model is to protect players for the regular season, same as teams that wrap up their playoff seeding protecting starters for the post-season. Just ask Teddy Bridgewater. Is Brees not a warrior? I see nothing fundamentally different from doing the same at the end of a lost season. Coaches will tel you that they don't rest more starters simply because of numbers. Packers are foolish to play Rodgers behind a terrible line, getting him hurt yesterday proved my point, and was organizational malpractice. It makes me doubt their competency.

[bobblehead]

NOw that we know we have the 12 pick I am thinking a 10 year lockdown RT might be what we grab. Protect the now fragile $33 million man. Sign Iupati or someone similar and keep bulaga to play RG for as long as he lasts while making sure we get someone prepared for when he falls. Suddenly the OL looks MUCH better and that trickles through the entire offense.

Alternatively I think we have such a gaping hole at OLB that if the right guy is there we can go that route too. Ultimately we have to take BPA, and at 12 that could wind up being either of those positions. If its not those 2 positions I think the best move is to trade down if we can get any real capital for it.

[woodbuck27]

NOw that we know we have the 12 pick I am thinking a 10 year lockdown RT might be what we grab. Protect the now fragile $33 million man. Sign Iupati or someone similar and keep bulaga to play RG for as long as he lasts while making sure we get someone prepared for when he falls. Suddenly the OL looks MUCH better and that trickles through the entire offense.

Alternatively I think we have such a gaping hole at OLB that if the right guy is there we can go that route too. Ultimately we have to take BPA, and at 12 that could wind up being either of those positions. If its not those 2 positions I think the best move is to trade down if we can get any real capital for it.

That is a strong objective and real possibility. Indy made a wise decision shoring up it's OL to protect Andrew Luck and it's working very well.

It appears right now that the Picks for the Top Ten will be predominately by far on 'D'. There's a solid OT amongst that Top Ten Draft Picks.

Unfortunately there won't be a lot of picks expended at the QB position.

[SavedByGrace]

I may have a new draft crush

https://twitter.com/BenFennell_NFL/status/1061385232241385472
https://twitter.com/DLineVids/status/1066425535369105408
https://twitter.com/ike_packers/status/1070430773587652621
https://twitter.com/DLineVids/status/1078515100896514048

[Bretsky]

Is that player not Aaron Jones? He is the speed burner skat back!


Aaron Jones is not a skat

I'm talking a RB that has the skills to pretty much flank out as a WR and help cause mismatches everywhere. I'm talking about James White, Darren Sproles, Tarik Cohen types. LB"s can't cover these guys.

[texaspackerbacker]

I'm pretty sure Aaron Jones has more pure breakaway speed than any of those guys. He just doesn't have the history of being a pass receiving 3rd down back. If we want a White/Sproles/Cohen type player, just keep Randall Cobb and use him that way.

[SavedByGrace]

I'm pretty sure Aaron Jones has more pure breakaway speed than any of those guys. He just doesn't have the history of being a pass receiving 3rd down back. If we want a White/Sproles/Cohen type player, just keep Randall Cobb and use him that way.

...IF the price is right

[Joemailman]

I'm pretty sure Aaron Jones has more pure breakaway speed than any of those guys. He just doesn't have the history of being a pass receiving 3rd down back. If we want a White/Sproles/Cohen type player, just keep Randall Cobb and use him that way.

Cobb never had Cohen-type speed. He certainly isn't close now after all the injuries. If the Packers want to improve their team speed on offense, Cobb is not the answer.

[Bretsky]

I'm pretty sure Aaron Jones has more pure breakaway speed than any of those guys. He just doesn't have the history of being a pass receiving 3rd down back. If we want a White/Sproles/Cohen type player, just keep Randall Cobb and use him that way.


There is nothing special about Aaron Jones as a receiver. He doesn't have the skills that White, Sproles or Cohen has as a receiver. I don't know if we want Randall Cobb as a RB unless he's willing to do it for MUCH MUCH less. Just not practical. And he's not fast enough either

[pbmax]

Jones could be White if the offenses were more similar.

He is not Cohen or Hill. He could be Sproles if he gets about 3 years of playing time under his belt. Not sure he is as durable.

[Bretsky]

Jones could be White if the offenses were more similar.

He is not Cohen or Hill. He could be Sproles if he gets about 3 years of playing time under his belt. Not sure he is as durable.

Jones could be White ? Not buying that at all. White has developed from a solid route runner into a great route runner for a RB. I'm not sure Jones is close to where White was as a route runner as a rookie.

Of course, if they hire Hoody Genius Jr you will have a couple years to prove me wrong, and I hope I am. Cohen is just elite as a scat. He's amazing and not even a fair example.

IF Jones ever gets to Sproles as a receiver..... I'd be happy.

But I maintain that Aaron Jones is not a scat; he can develop into a reliable starter who rushes for 1200 yards per year if used right and healthy.

You look for a scat who is not Jones IMO to spell him and be occasionally explosive and uncoverable as a RB receiver by the LB's

[pbmax]

Jones could be White ? Not buying that at all. White has developed from a solid route runner into a great route runner for a RB. I'm not sure Jones is close to where White was as a route runner as a rookie.

Of course, if they hire Hoody Genius Jr you will have a couple years to prove me wrong, and I hope I am. Cohen is just elite as a scat. He's amazing and not even a fair example.


Think back to all those routes White didn't run at Wisconsin and you will be able to envision Jones learning them too.

[Bretsky]

Think back to all those routes White didn't run at Wisconsin and you will be able to envision Jones learning them too.


I felt the only reasons White would make it in the NFL was route running and speed. He was reliable and had very good hands but was under utilized. NE saw that. And yes, he went to the perfect system with superior coaches on that of GB's.

I don't think Jones will ever be the receiver White is.

and I still want a legit starting RB with breakaway power and a scat. Jones is the #1 RB.
Williams is my Rex Burhkhead. We don't have a James White/Cohen/Deon Lewis on our roster

[Bretsky]

Think back to all those routes White didn't run at Wisconsin and you will be able to envision Jones learning them too.

maybe if they bring in Hoody Genius Jr :)))

[texaspackerbacker]

I didn't mean to say I WANTED us to keep Cobb. I just said he could be that kind of hybrid third down player. He probably ain't as fast as Cohen, although I never thought of Cohen as a speed back either. I never had a high opinion of James White when he was a Badger, and I still don't. His success is the product of the system and a great O Line, along with Brady of course. Sproles has always been a good change of pace runner and an extremely versatile player, but he's basically one of a kind, and he's old now. Do we even need somebody like that - a third down back? I don't think we do.

The original comparison was Aaron Jones. I say again, I'm pretty sure regarding pure speed, he is faster than any of those others and better as a slasher and power runner too - as legitimate a breakaway threat as all but a few teams have. He ain't a mere third down back like those others. I think with coaching and attention to detail, he could be a decent receiver too. Rotating him with Jamal Williams gives the Packers plenty of quality at RB. We could use a low round or UDFA third RB, though.

[pbmax]

I'm pretty sure Aaron Jones has more pure breakaway speed than any of those guys. He just doesn't have the history of being a pass receiving 3rd down back. If we want a White/Sproles/Cohen type player, just keep Randall Cobb and use him that way.

He has great quickness and first moves, plus some shake and acceleration.

But he does not have a game breaking top gear. He is barely faster than Williams over 40 yards.

[run pMc]

Williams or Jones could be used like James White, they just aren't. I think that's more the scheme than the QB, although Rodgers often didn't even look their way when they were clearly open.
James White is 5'9" with short arms and ran a 4.57 40. He is tough, smart, and competitive, AND he's used effectively within the scheme of an offense (in some cases) as the 1st or 2nd read.
Corey Clement is 5'10" and ran a 4.68, and he's a decent 3rd receiving back as well.

You don't need a speedster, but it doesn't hurt. You need to make them an actual weapon in the pass offense and they have to be capable of being a weapon. It's been proven you can find capable players in the late rounds or UDFA, but it's up to the team to use them correctly.

Tarik Cohen, or Pro Bowl era Sproles is a stretch, but having a player like that would certainly help Rodgers out. They need to start building a roster of playmakers AROUND Rodgers as opposed to expecting him to be the savior.

[call_me_ishmael]

Jachai Polite is so bendy. I think I'd like him and another pass rusher in the first round. Revamp the position with bendy fellas.

[Bretsky]

WITH THE 32nd PICK in the 2019 NFL Draft the Green Bay Packers select...……….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zw_yPYqfoDI

[Bretsky]

I'd take this athletic freak too !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUuA03KHv1w

[bobblehead]

I'm pretty sure Aaron Jones has more pure breakaway speed than any of those guys. He just doesn't have the history of being a pass receiving 3rd down back. If we want a White/Sproles/Cohen type player, just keep Randall Cobb and use him that way.

You are truly ill informed in most of your opinions.

[bobblehead]

Aaron Jones is not a skat

I'm talking a RB that has the skills to pretty much flank out as a WR and help cause mismatches everywhere. I'm talking about James White, Darren Sproles, Tarik Cohen types. LB"s can't cover these guys.

We had that guy but he made MM butt hurt and got sent to Baltimore.

[bobblehead]

I'd take this athletic freak too !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUuA03KHv1w

I think he is staying for another year.

BPA...there isn't a spot on this roster than can't use a BPA

[Bretsky]

I think he is staying for another year.

BPA...there isn't a spot on this roster than can't use a BPA


He very well might be. It's crazy that Iowa had BOTH of those TE's.

[Joemailman]

Fant declared for the draft and skipped Iowa's bowl game. Hockenson I believe has not yet decided. Hockenson is a better overall TE, although not the freakish athlete that Fant is.

[texaspackerbacker]

You are truly ill informed in most of your opinions.

hahahahaha And you should stick to politics instead of bouncing in with a cluster of wrongheaded posts then disappearing for a while. You're saying Aaron Jones is slower than James White or Darren Sproles? Uh whatever hahahahaha. Cohen might be faster, although I haven't seen it.

[red]

He very well might be. It's crazy that Iowa had BOTH of those TE's.

iowa has had freak TE's in the past too, and they turned out being not freaks in the NFL

cj federwhatever is the one i'm thinking of

is it a system thing?

[red]

I think he is staying for another year.

BPA...there isn't a spot on this roster than can't use a BPA

and

since we are drafting this high, IF a QB falls to 12, do we pull the trigger like we did with rodgers? then let the guy sit for a few years

i don't know if you can rule it out with rodgers age and is drop in play this year

rodgers is the same age that favre was when we drafted his eventual replacement

[woodbuck27]

I'd take this athletic freak too !!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUuA03KHv1w

He's impressive!